@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!:

1. PGR is irrelevant- Forza 2 sold better than both PGR3 and PGR4. Dissolving the team behind PGR and consolidating resources for Forza 3 was a smart move.

2. Fable 2 is everybody's favorite to rip because people enjoy criticizing (sometimes validly) for his overambitious plans. Fable sold well over 2 million for the Xbox and I'd expect at least the same. That qualifies as a pretty big title in my book.

3. The Halo series won't be butchered- the Peter Jackson collaborative project is still lacking in details, but the way they're handling Halo is hardly underwhelming. MS can market, that much is for sure.

4. Shadowrun was hardly a commercial success- FASA just wasn't worth the money to keep going.

Financially, Microsoft had to make some decisions to move from the red to the black. Holding onto Bioware was deemed not worth it. MGS will never have the 1st party power of Sony or Nintendo, two companies with a pretty significant head start on them. I think MS has made it clear that 3rd party reliance will form the bulk of their strategy, with 1st parties acting as supplements.

Snuffbox

@Stormrider:

"What kind of person considers marketing his life's passion?"

Very, very rich people. That's who.

stranger

@Snuffbox:

What's past is past. Microsoft is always referred to as being "such a great publishing partner" by the third party companies who invariably choose to terminate (or just not renew) their contractual agreements with the company. The question of just who Microsoft has left in their stable for console exclusives is totally viable.

Lionhead's good for about two games a decade, Silicon Knights even less. Rare makes games for kids, and Remedy's got Alan Wake, which is essentially vaporware at this point. Sure there's Halo, but the question is: What else is there for the rest of the 360's lifespan?

What made the 360 as successful as it's been up until now was a defined brand image. Now all Microsoft is doing is in direct response to the direction their competition has taken. Read: They don't care about us anymore, because we already made a purchasing decision about the Xbox 360, and changing our (the core user's) mind isn't likely to happen three years into the console's lifespan. Now it's a business of positioning the hardware against their competition to a more mainstream audience, which means lowered price and gimmicky support:

"Motion controls and casual games? Oh, we've got that too!"

"Blu-ray functionality? (Soon to be) Check."

"Games for gamers? Yeah- We already did that. Look at our attach rate figures on this spreadsheet!"

It's like if you're a hardcore gamer, and you already bought yourself a 360, Microsoft hopes you've been happy until now, because you're not getting more than 3-4 console exclusives a year for the rest of this hardware cycle. One for each popular genre- Hope you like them!

Oh- and enjoy those XBL dashboard commercials we keep charging to force down your throats cause they're never going to stop!

stranger

@DaFron:

ahhh thx got it. been looking for them forever.

graphx

@graphx: That was Gary Busey promoting Saints Row 2.

DaFron

And Shane Kim's contribution to society is....?

djsyndrome

lol at DavidTheMan

I think Kim and Spencer will be much better for the jobs. Didn't mind Bell but at last years E3 I got the feeling he didn't know much about games at all.

Might just have been the way he talked.

sargemat

Jeff Bell's the "Used Car Salesman"-style guy, isn't he?

Moonshadow101

@everybest: agreed.

a random thought, ok does anyone know where i can find the videos kotaku put up a while ago about GTA4 and it had that crazy guy (white hair, huge teeth) as the narrator. was something like, things to do in liberty city.. one was about the police, another was about drop kicking people off buildings.

graphx

@Snuffbox: You hear it a lot because it's a valid complaint. What else is coming out from MGS that isn't Gears of War 2, Fable 2, and (possibly) Alan Wake? I'm all for Microsoft-- really-- I'm just seeing a downward momentum. It's like they wanted to prove to themselves that they could achieve a respectable marketshare, and went about it aggressively. They spent large sums on co-marketing and exclusive game content, and pushed-- HARD-- for great partnerships with a lot of companies, and it really paid off. But of late, it seems like Microsoft are already looking to the next generation. If you believe Itagaki, Ninja Gaiden is over. Bungie have left Halo, and Microsoft haven't made any noise about the franchise since (not in a proper way, and as good as it might be, a Halo console RTS is not going to move large units). Bizarre left for the good ship Activision, and Microsoft haven't detailed what the future of PGR will be. Bioware have joined up with EA and it's difficult to say where Mass Effect 2 goes-- and Microsoft aren't discussing it yet. FASA is gone, and we've heard nothing about franchises like Crimson Skies and MechAssault. Real Time Worlds have disassociated themselves from Crackdown 2 and APB, long considered to be a 360 and PC property, is now uncertain to ever come to the 360. The list goes on and on. It is hard to have lot of faith in the future of MGS right now-- it looks like they shot off all their best material and didn't leave anything for later on in the race.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

What kind of person considers marketing his 'life's passion'?

Not to trash on what these people do too much, but really?

Stormrider

@Snuffbox:
Yes,they are doing great of course.They seem a little worried though.Wonder what the new thing is for E3.

[www.videogaming247.com]

enewtabie

That smile looks forced!

everybest

"The time is right for me to pursue my life's passion of consumer brand marketing and the creative and services that drive it." Bell said

Dude, I am in the label industry and it sucks. One more idiot ain't gonna make it "consumer brand" friendly.

SigmundTheSeaMonster

@Xer0Ph0kus: No not a fanboy at all.

@Nirolak: Sony has nothing to do with it, stick on the subject, stop trying to deflect.

MS has mismanaged their Entertainment division heavily. Say what you want about Sony, but Krazy Ken was over the PS system for 3 systems. Consistancy is a good thing.

Honestly would you rather have had the Xbox 1 crew behind the Xbox360 or do you like the 360 as it is, talking as a sense of hardware, status of XBL, and 1st & 2nd party status.

DavidTheMan

Microsoft needs to focus on it's brand. There's a hodgepodge of "me too" image branding with the XBOX360. First it was "Hardcore" to compete with the not yet released PS3 and mature PS2 games, now's its got "family-friendly" pricing and bundles to compete with the Wii.

And I wish they'd just drop the Las Vegas styling microtransaction and money to point conversion nonsense. Yeah it's a marketing technique, but boy does it annoy.

denebola

At least we don't have to sit through his slick n' cheesy banter at an E3 presser anything.

CHU BOI

Is it strange I'm reminded of Starship Troopers right now? (the book, not the travesty of a movie)

bobtheduck

Thank god, if I ever saw him preside over a press conference again I think I'd jump into a pool of sewage.

Gam3r

@okenny :):

True, I didn't think of that. I guess the sad truth is that Bungie is now not the owner of the Halo series. Hopefully Microsoft won't butcher the game to much. ;_;

freakoflink

@Dakobah: Make better podcasts maybe? ;)

okenny :)

@freakoflink: Bungie would have disbanded if they were forced to stay. MS actually came out on top with that departure but the sad thing is that there aren't enough internal development groups in MS to begin with.

okenny :)

OHHH NOO whats three red lights going to do, Jeff Bell NOOOOO!!!

DING!!!!

Dakobah

@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!:

Huh?

Unsustainable business model? They turned a profit for the first time in ages.

Nothing left in the tank? Do you think Microsoft just plans on not developing any new games. Gears of War 2 ring a bell? That whole "MS has nothing left" is a very popular talking point around here recently.

Microsoft Game Studios has been fantastic- Shane Kim is a big reason for that and he absolutely deserves a promotion.

Snuffbox

Yeah, I feel as though this was more of a situation where Microsoft was like "meh" and Jeff Bell said "I know I messed up, I'll leave" type of situation. He really did more harm to Microsoft Game Studios than he did good.

His biggest mistake was letting Bungie leave. I swear if Halo starts to go on a rotation between a good game developed by Bungie and then a bad game developed by someone else (the situation may remind you of Call of Duty), I will die.

freakoflink

@Kenny: Dude? Have you ever seen Jeff Bell? No laser eyes can do the weirdness of that mans face justice. It's scary :)

okenny :)

Shane Kim has never struck me as being particularly competent... The whole RE5 thing left a bad taste in my mouth but good for him, I guess. I still miss Peter Moore, I thought he was a prig, but at least he was entertaining.

Philonious

Good, put Shane Kim up there, the guy that's been surprised, nay shocked, by journalists more than once in interviews. Dude needs some good staff to prop him up and keep him prepared.

Any faith I had has gone right out the window.

Ma1agate

Still have nightmares about Bell and Reggie Bush playing a fake game of Madden at last year's E3 press conference. What a ham!

ezwaffles

OMG! T.R.L. is DOOOOOOMED!

okenny :)

@akashhhhh: Hm. I thought Bell was the one who answered for it. It appears I misspoke. But the question is, then, why promote Shane Kim? He fired off a few massive successes, but at the cost of pillaging the land. Microsoft's got nothing left in the tank now. It's like the Yankees of the late nineties-- they cannabalised their own farm system to win big now, and it left them with no talent to promote from within-- and they were left with an unsustainable business model.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

PROMOTIONS!

(俗・ ) Grey Gecko

@DavidTheMan: Because as we know, no high profile executives have ever left Sony.

I'll miss Jeff Bell, if only for his amazing ability to sound more like an infomercial than Billy Mays. That and his ubiquitous use of "OMG!" in interviews.

Nirolak

@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!:

Uh. I think you got it twisted. Shane Kim presided over all of that, as head of MGS and he's being promoted...probably because MGS has turned out a fantastic crop over the past two years.

Jeff Bell is leaving, and as a marketing guy...I don't think he'd be the fall man for the issues you mentioned.

akashhhhh

@DavidTheMan: fanboy much?

"The time is right for me to pursue my life's passion of consumer brand marketing and the creative and services that drive it"

That is one hell of a boring life passion IMO.

Xer0Ph0kus

So, there's an opening at M$, and an opening for a comment moderator here...

You think M$ would pay more than $200.00 a month?

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

My favorite Jeff Bell quote:

"When the original Xbox arrived in November 2001, it was targeted at hard-core gamers, such as "the stereotypical young male dressed in black and living in the basement of his parents' home."

archibaldleech

So, the guy who presided over the period where Microsoft let Bungie go, lost Bizarre, lost an exclusive relationship with Bioware, closed down FASA, and canned Marvel Online is leaving because he's looking for other opportunities?

Maybe for the opportunity to not get nailed to the cross for bungling.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

Who ?

Fabrice

Why no green laser eyes?

Kenny

Microsoft's gaming and entertainment division has been a revolving door for executives. With such turnover like this, it is no wonder they were not able to capture the #1 console spot, after a year head start.

DavidTheMan

That's too bad, dawg.

AuraHACK

@stranger: "Oh- and enjoy those XBL dashboard commercials we keep charging to force down your throats cause they're never going to stop!"

You mean the ones you can easily turn off?

@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!: They have some solid releases coming up- Halo Wars, Gears 2, Too Human, Fable 2, Viva Pinata 2 and Banjo.

I'm sure MGS games will keep coming next year just like they are this year. Too Human 2+3, Peter Jackson's Halo Chronicles, Alan Wake, just to name a few that we know of now.

@beem: I'm not sure how many others feel the same way, but as soon as I spot the use of M$, I stop reading.

Madeira

@Lazlo: So you mean that MS copied Sony's PS button on their PS3? Oh wait...they were out a year early.

MS did innovate in the console online front, you can't argue that. If console online gaming had just been left up to the PS2 we'd have Xbox 1 functionality today, and maybe not even that far. What MS brought to the table as far as consoles are concerned cannot be disregarded as copy cat because they've done some things right that Sony and Nintendo are still having trouble grasping. The same can be said for the opposite as well, but thats what competition is for right?

Like you said, its all about how its presented to the masses, and you have to hand it to MS, they are pretty good at presenting things to the masses, new ideas or not.

Xer0Ph0kus

@Snuffbox:
He's not a bad guy or anything.Just when you sit down and listen to him,you get the feeling he has great ideas that are maybe out of the scope of what will or can be done.

enewtabie

@Snuffbox:
"Microsoft Game Studios has been fantastic- Shane Kim is a big reason for that and he absolutely deserves a promotion."

Are you delusional? Kim has had absolutely NOTHING to do with MGS' promotional success. In fact, it's quite the other way around. Kim's screwed M$ over on so many accounts, it's not even funny. Almost as bad as Stolar did with Sega. That guy royal screwed Sega so badly that people actually thought he was sent by Sony.

Do you even know why M$ dropped publishership and exclusitivity to Psychonauts? Double Fine was constantly making tweaks to the game, trying to make it the best they could, and Shane Kim apparently wasn't impressed with the progress. He thought the game looked like crap (and felt it's concept sucked). Thus, got M$ to drop the title as part of their 1st party line-up. Don't even get me started on Bioware.

It's really disheartening to see M$ promote such a godawful PR. They must really enjoy being held against their will. Maybe it'll hit them eventually. Though I doubt it.

"MGS has been successful because of Kim." That's some of the funniest sh*t I've ever heard.

beem

@enewtabie:

I dunno, I like people who are ambitious, even if they don't reach their goals.

I'm also very biased- Molyneaux is responsible for much of my initial passion for gaming. Syndicate and Theme Park were two of the staples of my childhood.

Snuffbox

"I firmly believe that Microsoft will lead the next great innovations in games and entertainment."

Hmmm, I guess we're defining innovations as copying other company's ideas and putting a Guide Button on it. I love Microsoft, don't get me wrong, but they are not innovators. Heck, Nintendo isn't even the great mind behind the Wii-Mote technology. A similar device was invented before that and Nintendo made it main-stream. That's what's important. How well you can present it to the masses.

Lazlo

@Snuffbox:
2.I think Moly really does more bad than good to his titles.It's great to be ambitious.But,being realistic is helpful too.

enewtabie

"You said we needed Phil on our team, so here he is! Victory is ours!"
"Really? You got Phil Harrison?"
"Uhhhhh... something like, yeah!"

Just kidding... I don't know Phil Spencer, but I'm looking forward to seeing how he'll do his job. Kim is... too good at his job when it comes to PR. You can't get any info out of him but the official lines because he knows exactly what he's giving out. It's much more fun when you get someone who makes accidental slips.

fuchikoma

@DavidTheMan: It could also be that a) the Wii is cheaper than the Xbox 360 and b) easy-to-use motion controls draw in a lot of non-gamers. Of course, it could be like you said; gamers actually decide which console they want based on how many execs leave from or are employed by first-party video game companies.

josh924

I see this as a good thing for Microsoft. They have a HUGE presence in the US this gen and throughout the world known for 2 things. The hardcore gamers' system and RROD ;) I wouldn't be surprised if they announce a beatmania game for the 360 it's that hardcore really...

Japan is this gen is about the handheld and casual market and that of course belongs to Nintendo and Sony, though I'm curious to see how the iPhone gaming takes off there (to bad there's isn't a monthly listing for games sold on iTunes). So the most important market for them to win in now is Europe and what do they do... Promote the head of their European gaming studios. Which to me sounds like Microsoft wants to hear what's wrong in Europe in person than over an XBL video chat :p

I just see this as preparing exclusive games for the next xbox. Most of them aimed at the European consumer.

Gunloc

@Madeira: Nice. I already accounted for Fable 2 and Gears 2. I already explained my thoughts on Halo Wars. I didn't count Too Human, as it will be out well in advance of the holiday season (just a few weeks, actually-- I was looking at the future). I honestly think we'll see at most one sequel during this console generation. It's going to be very hard for Silicon Knights to put out two sequels to TH in less than three years. Banjo I did forget, and that's a good catch-- I'm actually really looking forward to it. The vehicle creation system looks excellent.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

@Snuffbox: See, I was expecting well-reasoned responses from you, after I took the time to elaborate on your comment. I'm disappointed to see your entire response consists of nuh uh, my dad can beat up your dad. You didn't respond to a single point I made.

Per PGR-- both three and four were significant titles for Microsoft, and while Forza is an excellent title in its own right, in this industry YOU DO NOT JUST SHELVE AN IP WITH NAME VALUE. You especially do not shelve an IP to focus on another IP that doesn't address the same crowd-- Forza and PGR are not entirely similar titles.

I wasn't ripping on Fable at all. I happen to love the game. All I asked you to do was to mention things happening for MGS OTHER THAN Fable, Alan Wake, and Gears 2 (which you decided against doing).

Per the Peter Jackson Halo project-- why on earth wouldn't Microsoft be talking this up if anything were happening? In this age of CONSTANT communication between the developers and the community, we've heard nothing of this 'title'. Fact is, Peter is holed up with Guillermo for about the next year straight, doing pre-production on The Hobbit.

I agree that Shadowrun wasn't a commercial success. But FASA took on that title as a Microsoft objective. And it was Microsoft that chose to close down the studio that created two of its largest first-party hits last generation.

Financially, Microsoft had to make some decisions to move from the red to the black. Holding onto Bioware was deemed not worth it. MGS will never have the 1st party power of Sony or Nintendo, two companies with a pretty significant head start on them. I think MS has made it clear that 3rd party reliance will form the bulk of their strategy, with 1st parties acting as supplements.

And your last point, if you'd insist I call it that, is ridiculous to the point of being laughable. Microsoft, after spending more money than anyone on becoming competitive this generation-- and having more money than either of its competitors-- suddenly need to exercise fiscal restraint? Were Sony and Nintendo falling all over themselves to pay Rockstar Games FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS for GTAIV DLC? And you say Microsoft have made it clear they're going for mostly 3rd-party support-- really? As the industry moves toward a model where fewer and fewer third party developers can afford to create console exclusives, and console libraries will be judged on the strength of their exclusives (which are going to become almost, um, exclusively first-party), Microsoft have decided that it makes sense to SCALE BACK first-party development? Are you just making this up as you go along?

I think you need to look more closely at the siuation.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

"We thank Jeff for his achievements and contributions to Microsoft and the Xbox business."

Achievement unlocked 1000G - Contribute to Microsoft and the Xbox business.

CCCombobreaker

yeah shane kim didnt know RE5 was coming to 360! trust him with anything? hell no!

shaunomacx

Great. Now bring back J.

elliottsa

A high executive turnover isn't a good sign. New leadership means a new change in focus and strategy. There is nothing wrong with change when a business becomes becomes stale. Problems arise when frequent changes plant the seeds of consumer uncertainty.

Velops

Yay for wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!.

Yay for competent analysis and sound, effective, inoffensive commenting.

Ma1agate

@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!:

OK, so now your "well-articulated" argument is that Fable, Alan Wake, and Gears 2 aren't enough? Those are all AAA titles. What do you expect them to do, make 45 first party titles over the next few years? As far as the Jackson project, do you think Wingnut just collects money from MS for kicks?

As far as PGR, what's the financial point of making two racing games? It's like SCEA making MLB: the Show and also financing another baseball game. The market is virtually identical. PGR3 to PGR4 saw a significant drop in sales anyway. If the development costs of PGR outweighed its benefits, there's no reason to continue the series. By your logic, it's best to continue making PGR ad infinitum just because it's a "name" in the industry.

Your argument that Microsoft should just be spending money because they have it is laughable. It's a terrible business model. Financially, their most recent strategy is working for them. What's the point of gobbling up studios left and right if you're consistently in the red?

Snuffbox

@Xer0Ph0kus: Yeah - possibly worst 'life passion' evar.

Of course he could alternatively have been honest and said that owning a ginormous mansion with servants, 17 Bentleys, and champagne on tap is his life's passion....

quen

Jeff Bell was definitely fired. He always seemed really weird at the E3's, especially 07 rofl! Anyways, he was the one in charge of the lack of agressiveness in securing titles in late 07 early 08, something microsfot did extremely well at e3 06. Now that Shane Kim, who is fucking awesome btw, is promoted, hopefully M$ can start being aggressive again.

Pbombas

he got kicked by microsoft reps because he did not get metal gear on 360.kojimaXXXXXX000000

liquidocelot555

@archibaldleech: Nice.

Allen750

@Snuffbox: My point was simply that relative to the dedicated efforts on Microsoft's part earlier in this console generation to spend when necessary to create and maintain valuable IP and to foster healthy business partnerships with third-party developers, Microsoft seem to be taking a pass on this year. Yes, I do consider two flagship sequels and an undated (mostly undiscussed) Alan Wake is a letdown from the people who pushed very hard to get us a 360 version of GTAIV with exclusive DLC, loads of first party titles in the first two years of the 360's life, and weren't afraid to spend big when they saw potential.

Per PGR, I suppose we'll just agree to see it differently. I think PGR is still an intensely valuable franchise, and hundreds of thousands of fans feel the same way. I don't question Microsoft's right to put more money into Forza at PGR's expense, only their judgement.

And to your last point, I would only remind you that Microsoft's entire strategy with the first XBOX was to function in the red to better compete in the future. As the future of our industry seems to depend heavily on console makers providing the bulk of their platform's exclusive AAA titles through in-house first-party development, I'd consider consolidating studio talent within MGS as not only prudent, but NECESSARY, to compete in any meaningful fashion in the future. I believe if they let up on first-party development, there will not be sufficient compelling reasons to support the next-generation Microsoft gaming device.

But that's just my take. I appreciate your opinion.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

"The time is right for me to pursue my life's passion of consumer brand marketing and the creative and services that drive it".

Life's passion, eh.

How very sad for you.

fazha