@LittleBigPlaneteer: If you don't think those little details could be changed then you are in denial. I didn't notice the PSP. There was an Ipod and Otacon used a Macbook Pro. See my avatar. That thing appears in Ninja Gaiden 2, but it can and will be changed when Ninja Gaiden 2 Omega comes out on PS3.

Here is what Kojima said about the possibility of making MGS4 on 360 and PC for that matter.

1UP "Do you think you could create MGS4, technically, on 360 if you wanted to?"

Kojima "Yes, that's technically possible."

Kojima "Maybe some nuance or a small details here and there might be different, but I feel that hardware is no longer a matter. I'm just talking about PS3, 360 and PC."

Read the full article if you like:
[www.1up.com]

Spartan1308™

@Kanik:

Perhaps it didn't show up in the final game, but in the initial demos they showed snake controlling the robot while holding a sixaxis in his hands. Also like you mentioned there are Sony references (like the Cell Processor line). Anyways, I just don't see them changing all that for the 360 version. Not saying it's impossible, just highly unlikely.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Sunjammer:

Is there somethin' wrong with you?

How can there not be a benefit in having larger space?

So many developers have complained already about the lack of space on the Xbox, and the fact that the hard drive doesn't come as standard!

The quality of the DVD9s that they put the data on is the worst i've ever seen. Splitting discs, scratches if you so much as breath on it. Bly-Ray discs are almost indestructable.

GOD

Actually I am more willing to trust a disk (two copies for safety purposes) over a harddrive. Harddrives have caused me alot of anguish over the years with corrupted files. I don't even trust the info on my laptop to just exist on the harddrive, I have to use an external harddrive to ensure my data never gets lost.

MGS4 won't go to 360 for a number of reasons. One being the disc issue, there is alot of audio and assets in the game, all mixed at quite remarkable quality. Not to mention just the sheer number of discs it would take. Another thing, all the sony product placement would seem kind of awkward.

bobeotm

@Arsenicberyllium: It does mean that 2gb is unavailable for content. A DVD can hold just a little over 8.5GB. The 360 DVD's use 2 GB for copy protection leaving almost 7GB. I somehow doubt you'd persuade MS or any of it's licensee's to drop the copy protection.

kingmanic

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I don't recall anything being specifically six-axis oriented with the exception of a specific weapon.

There are multiple Playstation references throughout the game, though I'm sure they could be edited out. (Although this game is evidence that Kojima doesn't enjoy editing.)

What has me thinking it can't go to the 360 is the level of detail and graphics. It just looks so amazing, I've never seen anything as polished and as detailed as it. Felt like playing a CGI film.

Kanik

@Arsenicberyllium:
"We're a bunch of assholes fighting over a scientific object none of us actually have the technological information to comprehend on the level necessary to argue the point with any level of relevancy."

Speak for yourself. Speculating if it's possible is different from coding in assembly with a magnetized needle and a naked plater. I'm certain any technology enthusiast of CS/CE major could speculate very accurately.

kingmanic

what would they do about all the PSP, PS3, Blu-ray reference in game? and the fact that they say thre is NO disk 2 (or 3 or 4)

SsLordMagus

@kingmanic: A Dual-Layer DvD can hold about, but not quite 9Gb. If MS chooses to block off two Gb, that doesn't mean the disc can't hold 9Gb.

@Sunjammer: Uhh..where do you keep your data? On 3 disc copies, 6 different HDD's in different machines, and split among flash drives? And you don't own any consoles?
How can you not trust a storage format to store data?

Arsenicberyllium

Hypothetical question: If MGS4 had employed the work of a few good editors, would it still be the first game to fully utilize the capacity of dual-layer Blu-ray? Hmmmm.

DugDawg

Oh yeah. Just so it's said, i think this game should stay with the PS3. It has no home on the 360. It'd be like a horse trying to snuggle up to you in your bed. Horsie should stay with the other horsies where it's happy.

Sunjammer

@Sunjammer: My point is that clinging to theoretical bullshit while not knowing anything about the science behind it is retarded in and of itself. I went to the absurd to point out the fallacy of their arguments in favor of MGS4 coming to the 360. Is it possible that it's possible for it to come to the 360? Definitely. But we don't know if it's possible. We don't know anything. We're a bunch of assholes fighting over a scientific object none of us actually have the technological information to comprehend on the level necessary to argue the point with any level of relevancy.
And I was trying to point out how damn stupid that is.

Arsenicberyllium

@Llost: There is a lot of audio. They left it uncompressed so they can spool it off the BD and load other things form the HD. It'll take some time for a port and the quality would vary. A 360 version is most certainly possible but the engine would have to undergo a massive rewrite. At least half a year. Depending on what type of incentives Sony has offered Konami it may be indefinitely longer or never.

@Arsenicberyllium: It's 7GB/360 disc. not 9GB.

kingmanic

Aren't there actual Sony related products in the game? Like say the PSP? and the Sixaxis controller? Not to mention the jab that Kojima makes about games coming on multiple discs.

People that still believe this is going to the 360 are in fucking denial, plain and simple. If you want to play the game, buy a PS3. If you don't want to play it but just like theorizing bullshit, do us all a favor and shut the hell up.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@lord.vagos: Agreed. That's the first thought that came to my head when I saw the picture.

Smex

@Arsenicberyllium: Incidentally i don't trust dvd9 with 9 gigs of data either. Hell no.

I don't give a poop what kind of disc format it is. I will never, ever trust a disc with important data

Sunjammer

@Arsenicberyllium: Suggesting that people port a game themselves = epic fail. We're in the realm of theoreticians here. I personally don't think MGS4 could be ported without splitting content off onto multiple discs, considering its rampant verbal diarrhea. But in terms of getting the actual gameplay running on a 360 or PC? Not a doubt in my mind. The "rocket science" of MGS has always been in the minutiae, not in the core gameplay.

Sunjammer

@Spartan1308™: Sony doesn't pay for exclusives.

Arsenicberyllium

@BassForever: socom

the_answer

@Sunjammer: This is just a quick little response to one line:
"I dunno about you guys, but i would never, ever trust a disc with 20+ gigs of my data. Way to put all your eggs in one basket. It's just a huge, huge amount!"

An Xbox 360 Dual-Layer DvD disc holds about 9Gb of space. At 20Gb, that's only a little more than 2x your "dangerous to have in one spot" amount of data. Take into account the fact that Blu-Rays are naturally very scratch resistant compared to DvDs, and they appear to superior in that aspect.

Arsenicberyllium

@Yetanotheruninspiredscreename: ah...STILL THOUGH! That's something worth celebrating, I guess.

Thorax

@Kokatu: It's a 20 hour game that could likely use decent compression and be shipped on 3 or 4 dual layer DVDs. Even if it is already compressed to the max, you could throw out MGO and it would fit on 6 DVDs at most. It's completely linear with loading points between 5 different acts that are generally longer than it takes to simply get up and change the disc. This is easily possible on 360 and I have a hard time believing that this won't get a port unless Konami is getting a hefty exclusivity paycheck from Sony. I hope it gets ported so those who don't have PS3s can enjoy it, b/c it is very entertaining.

Spartan1308™

@Kokatu: I'm all for that. I think Xbox fans should get a chance to experience MGS4, screw fanboys and there exclusivity.

I'm amazed by people who whine about games on multiple discs. If you're someone who is too lazy to slap in a game and then every hour or so get up and switch out a disc, then you are in a whole league of slacker that I can't even compete with.

Thorax

Hm.. I'm not confused as to how bluray really benefits games, but i wonder how it benefits the ps3 specifically, what with gimped texture memory and all. It's not like the thing can actually make good use of uncompressed assets. At best bluray will allow for MORE content on the same disc, which, while an interesting prospect, isn't really a problem as-is with dvd9, unless you count all the extra bs like the TV stuff in GTA4 or The Darkness.

I'm just not sold on "the next generation of games" being dependent on more storage; if games today need more storage they ship on more discs, and that happens far more rarely than Sony would like us to believe.

I think the benefit of bluray really boils down to streaming heavy uncompressed media, specifically video and audio. For data? I dunno about you guys, but i would never, ever trust a disc with 20+ gigs of my data. Way to put all your eggs in one basket. It's just a huge, huge amount!

I'm simply not sold. There isn't a single game on the system i feel has been truly improved by bluray. Looking forward to the first one that does blow our minds with its awesome use of ridiculous amounts of storage. Honestly.

Sunjammer

@Arsenicberyllium: He (or she) is right. plus there is a strange things that BD's do to store constant streaming data on the disc. I don't know the legistics of it...but DVD's can't do it.

SilkRevolver

@Llost:

I guess my point is, prove it already.

The game is streaming from both the BD-DVD and the HDD at the same time, whatever monster engine Kojima put into it, it requires a lot of throughput, almost certainly more than the 360's DVD-drive can provide.

Furthermore, most of the games audio is not uncompressed.

One simply needs to look at the lower sound-quality, heavy use of blur filters and fog, and lower texture quality to figure out where the majority of the space was saved.

We know that the compression technology used in the PS3 is on-par with that used on the 360.

We know that the drive is marginally slower.

We know that the data on the MGS4 disc is compressed due to installation and audio format.

What exactly is there to not understand?

SnakeCL

@Thorax:

Thing is the Japanese data from stores shows a lot of them sold the game and the ps3 when they finished the game in three to four days.

Yetanotheruninspiredscreename

Okay, these ridiculous statements are pissing me off, so I'll fire back with one just as ill-informed and poorly thought out:

If you keep insisting that a MGS4 port for the 360 is possible-prove it. Take the disc, get all the information off of it. Then, decompile the information, get the art assets.
Then, modify the code so it works on the 360, and compress it so it fits onto a 360. And if you don't know how to do that, you don't know if it's possible to do it at all, so you can just shut the hell up.

Arsenicberyllium

Woot! A lot of people bought a game I really enjoyed, err, and the console as well. Which is a nice change of pace.

I remember the day when Resistance was all PS3 gamers could brag about. Those days sucked. Truly.

Thorax

@Kokatu: Quite a few games have been on mutliple discs in the past and put simply MS hasn't made the leap so is in the same position the original playstation was in. It never really effected the PS1 though so I don't see it being a problem.
FF7 and FF8 are the ones that used multiple discs (4 each) but more games did use it too.

I'd like to see blue ray in the next 360 since downloads suck when you have a bad connection.

Llost

Wa wa wee wah! Good job PS3

Volgin

Now if we could get more good titles for the PS3, that'd be great. I need more excuses to fire it up instead of my 360, aside from watching Blu Ray movies.

DangerFlakes

And when the sales die off. . . . 360 release!!!

PITwelve

@Barbara: Why do you think they brought him back to get his ass handed to him once more?

@SnakeCL: Huh... shits and giggles?

Antiterra

@SnakeCL: If the game was compressed why is it 5 times the size of GTA IV? It's no where near that much content yet it requires 50gb? It's bull. It surely will use a lot of data but nothing compression (and even if it was compresed better compression technology is always available) couldn't sort. It's possible on 360.

Anyway it's good that it made a big sales increase (around 65,000 if I remember right) in Japan. I hope to hear the sales in the rest of europe and America too.

Llost

I like how they don't put Sunny in that picture...

nautnaut

Man, I wish the 360 used Blu Ray. It doesn't look like a port is feasible otherwise. I mean, how many DVD's would that be? But then again, wasn't that Square game from a little while ago on 4 discs?

Kokatu

@Luuey: Howso, its already quite quiet, quite reliable, and doesnt seem to melt holes in the carpet with massive heat. What would you want changed. Sure it could be smaller, but my consoles rarely move from the spot they are placed. Its not like the thing comes with a handle on it.

bobeotm

Why does anybody put any stock in what these corporate spin doctors say? Of course he is going to plug his system and make every new thing seem like the second coming of the messiah. Its what he is paid to do.

It also keeps the good fan boys and girls happy and provides the message boards of the world with numerous topics.

Hengst2404

Umm... Duh. We already knew that.

DeathBeforeDishonor

Of course the fact that both PS3 and MGS 4 sales dropped more then 50% the week after release has been omitted from the talk.

PS3 sales will drop to below ten thousand in another week or two.

While wii and ds sales have been stable at over 30,000 units a week. Game sales are quite high for both platforms.

Several upcoming DS and Wii releases should skyrocket the sales of both or maintain it while the next PS3 title that could increase sales of the PS3 for a week should be coming in six months.

Yetanotheruninspiredscreename

That's true, but it's a bit deceptive. The hardware numbers were still somewhat low compared to the success Sony is accustomed to, historically. It's like if I have an allowance of one gumball per week, and suddenly next week I get eight gumballs. I've still just got eight gumballs.

wild homes has particularly attractive fries today

I suppose it didn't occur to him that maybe people had been holding off on a PS3 purchase the month or so before MGS4 because they planned to buy the system on launch day.

Does Not Equal

Anyone have a 1280 size of that pic? That would make a helluva background!

lord.vagos

Yes, but one game does not a winner in the console war making Sony. I don't really see anything big and exclusive coming out for awhile, LBP unless it gets some massive hype I feel will fall under the radar, Resistance 2 may get a few more, but it will mostly be Resistance 1 fans who buy it, and Killzone 2 lost its hype about 2 years ago <_<

BassForever

@Mr. Fap☆Fap!:

Oh good god, the files ARE compressed. What do people think the installs are for?

SnakeCL

@Barbara: was it the pallor or the homosexuality?

kingmanic

Great. That just ruined Metal Gear for me. Put a spoiler warning on that.

Arsenicberyllium

"Hirai said MGS 4 is "the first title to fully utilize the capacity of dual layer Blu-ray disc.... Metal Gear Solid 4has created a world of gaming entertainment that can only be realized by PS3."

Or file compression.

Mr. Fap☆Fap!

Kaz Hirai, finding the silver lining in the fact the PS3 was moving <9500 units the week before MGS4.

wswordsmen

Ill move a PS3 when it gets a design change:)

Luuey

I don't know, I always took Vamp as an Xbox 360 fan.

Barbara

The title made me think you were talking about worldwide sales. We already knew what it did in Japan. I'm curious about NA and EU.

Spartan1308™

yup!

marcoco

@Weirdwolf: Went a bit over the top with indestructable, but thet are alot better.

GOD

@SG79:

Content wise, it skipped on Extreme Battle from the Dual Shock version.

SG79

@Yetanotheruninspiredscreename: Why spend money on "talent" to compress your game to fit on a tiny cart? It all costs money, it's not easy and this is why people want more space. It's called progression! If you were a representation of early man you would never have warmed to the idea of the invention of fire! You would have been quite happy freezing your tits off in another cave, tapping away on your lap whilst the fire gang down the road were banging out some amazing tunes on the drums they made, all nice and warm! You can keep your 9 gigs. I'll have 50.

GOD

@Barbara: Look what happened to him!

@Kokatu: Yea Lost Odyssey I believe

@nautnaut: ! :(

Weasel3689

@Yetanotheruninspiredscreename:

Good lord, you actually believe that, despite the obvious limitations of the cart format that affected every game?

RE2 N64 also had lower texture resolution and music that was nowhere near the quality of the original PS1 game. Let's not ever start on the CG quality.

It was impressive for a cart effort, but only a fool would think it was on par with the original's quality.

SG79

@nautnaut: hey yeah, what the...

thetrueyuiop

@GOD:

You know I remember when CD's came out and they said exactly the same thing. Indestructible, demos of them being smeared with strawberry jam and still playing etc.
A few years down the line and the plastics in the coating started to degrade and powder.
NEVER EVER say something is indestructible, it will inevitably turn around and go tits up.
Blu ray discs are going to be just as likely to get scratched/crack/have the coating fail as any other disc based system.

Weirdwolf

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Have you played the game? There actually aren't that many references to Sony. The multiple disc thing could be taken as a jab at the 360, but there is good reason to believe that it has more relevance to MGS on the original Playstation. I'm not going into detail on that in case you haven't played the game but it's true believe it or not.

In the article referenced, you'll find that Kojima says a lot of other devs were already working w/the 360 hardware, so even though it's an old interview the final specs were widely available for the 360. Theorizing that the game is possible on the 360 isn't an attack on the PS3. Please stop taking it that way. I'd understand your annoyance if people were actually talking trash, but they're just saying the game is possible on another system. How does that hurt you? Why do you feel the need to tell them to shut up?

Spartan1308™

@AtomicPlayboy: Yes... don't developers care about disc space?

Just imagine if you could have night time tracks in PGR4, or even more cars!!!! Just imagine if you could fit Oblivion and all it's expansions on one disk??? How about halo 3 shipping with a shit tonn more multi player maps? I'm sure and developer would love to not have to cut thing out due to limited space. I suppose you could all download it later...

GOD

@AtomicPlayboy:

Considering this meeting is meant to be publicized to the mainstream, who exactly do you think Kaz is trying to entice with that sentence? It's a Sony meeting with sony execs. They are just touting the Blu-ray technology. I think any company would have done the exact same thing. Seeing it as a "Sony thing" makes it seem like you're just a bit too biased there. I'm positive Microsoft, Apple, and any other company would have said the same exact thign at their company meetings if their technology was being fully utilized for the first time.

LittleBigPlaneteer

"why do you think the PS1 killed the n64?"

Carts were actually suprerior to discs. Resident Evil 2 was on the N64 with all it's content. It took talent to handle the compression.

Yetanotheruninspiredscreename

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Huh! You learn something new every day! Thanks for the info!

BtownDesignGuy

@AtomicPlayboy: Were you in a coma for a year? Both 360 and Ps3 fan boys have been bouncing around about such minutia for a year or more. disk space can be important, why do you think the PS1 killed the n64? the n64 could hold 1/4 - 1/2 as much data as a CD.

kingmanic

@BtownDesignGuy:

From what I've heard, it was Sony that is eating some of the costs of that deal. The deal actually started the week before the MGS4 bundle. It wasn't really meant to be used with the 80GB bundle, but they decided to accept it. The incentive was initially set up to start clearing inventory of the 40GB models. Sony will be releasing new 40GB's with a DualShock3 included within the next few months. I remember reading that Sony likely made a deal with Walmart to sell out this old stock buy providing the GC incentive. The same thing with the current Blu-ray players, which was the deal for the 2nd week, which happened to be the week the 80GB was released.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Sunjammer: "Digital artist" Ay? I never gave much credit to that kind of jive. All my work goes on canvas.

GOD

"the first title to fully utilize the capacity of dual layer Blu-ray disc.... Metal Gear Solid 4has created a world of gaming entertainment that can only be realized by PS3."

It's pretty pathetic that the Sony spin guys have to rely on disk space to differentiate their platform from its competitors. Is that the best you can do, Kaz? Does this nonsense actually influence anyone?

AtomicPlayboy

I've said it elsewhere in Kotaku, so I'll repeat it here:

Wal-mart decided it would be a good idea to give a $100 gift card to all customers who purchased a Blu-Ray player (including PS3s) during the week MGS4 released. Which is... genius. Pay consumers $100 to buy a PS3 during the one week when it's most attractive.

That said... I bought a PS3 that week, but (increasingly regrettably) did not purchase MGS4. So. Wal-mart must have contributed *something* to PS3's sales that week. Even though it's obvious Wal-mart lost a lot of money on it.

There is a God.

BtownDesignGuy

@GOD: Harddrive not standard = actual issue, and a big one. Lack of storage? Never been an issue. Multiple discs, you lazy fuckers. We've done this shit since the PS1 damnit.

Sunjammer

@Spartan1308™:

I just said above that it's not impossible, just highly unlikely. No other MGS game has had this many confirmations that it will remain a PS3 exclusive, not included references specifically to Sony, and also made jabs at multiple discs. I think that's just way too many words to eat if they were to do a 180 and go to the 360.

Also I like how you cite an article. Do you know when Kojima stated those things? In 2005. That's 3 years ago. Since then he has stated that even the PS3's Blu-ray wasn't enough for his initial plans. Saying something like that a year before the PS3 was even released is just neglible right now, with everything else we've heard from the man afterward.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Arsenicberyllium: Basically yes. I keep masses and masses of backups. I have 3 laptops and a workstation, all my data is stored with SVN, and two backups of the repositories on external HDDs. I do periodic DVD backups as well, which i store somewhere i doubt REALITY can touch them.

I'm an artist; my work == my children. They die, part of me dies. Worse, i'm an artist working in digital media. Digital media auto-dies. It's heartbreaking.

In truth i don't trust ANY media to not fall apart. What it boils down to isn't wether i'll lose work, it's a question of how much of it, and i've had dvd backups die before. Believe me when i say losing 4 gigs of music you poured your heart into is painful.

Let's just say that the odds of me putting 20 gigs of backup on a single disc are extremely slim. I'd rather lose a quarter of my data than all of it. Spread it out, spread it thin, minimize the damage.
But i'm happily willing to chalk this up to pure ANGST at this point. Christ almighty i hate losing work.

Give me my crystal matrix hard storage already. I want my art written in stone.

Sunjammer

This whole thing about console sales confuse me. Is there ever going to be a point where everyone that wants the damn system is going to have it already? That's what confuses me about the Wii and the DS were selling like hot cakes and now that they aren't selling as much, Sony and Microsoft think that they're taking over. I also don't see the point in waiting until a game comes out to buy a system. I got my Playstation 3 knowing good and well Metal Gear Solid 4 and GTA 4 were coming out and still waiting for God of War 3 and Little BigPlanet(LittleBigPlanet? Little Big Planet?). Hell, there are even some games that are surprising me on other systems and might even warrant a purchase. I also understand that console sales will increase for the 360 when Gears of War 2 come out for some odd reason. I mean, what the shit, why not buy a 360 now and then go out and get Gears 1 and some other great games?

enigma89

@SG79:

They were touted as being indestructible in a load of the adverts and articles about them at the time,(early 80's),I didn't believe it then either, cynical old bugger that I am.
CD's where touted as being a huge improvement on vinyl and they were, but while they were a lot harder to bugger up the plastic coating and indeed the silvering that the info was written on had a lot of unforeseen problems.
There have been reports of Blu-ray rot on some discs. It just hasn't been around long enough as a format to say that there are no problems with it, and as you said the layering and compactness of the data would cause huge problems if there were a problem of a similar type that has affected C.D.s.

Weirdwolf

@kingmanic:
Lulz. I see what you did there. Clever.

VishusBurn

That MGS4 Ad that I saw last 3 weeks ago says:

"Only in Playstation 3"

That should mean something.

@Yetanotheruninspiredscreename:

If carts were superior, then where or what happened to those "Superior Carts" now ?

xCruciaLx

@KirbyMorph: Don't look only what you want to do,see the whole picture,many times many people states about the importance of the cutscenes for Metal Gear games,and for me and many others this game is a truly Next Gen experience (And this is wrong to say,actually we already are in the current gaming generation,not next).

And he doesn't degrade any other games,he only states the boundaries of the first truly "AAA" exclusive and his benefits to the PS3,moreover taking in account how this game make use of the PS3's power.

OT79

@Spartan1308™: - "That thing appears in Ninja Gaiden 2, but it can and will be changed when Ninja Gaiden 2 Omega comes out on PS3."

Sources please.

dead_red_eyes

@KirbyMorph: What other game shifted a fuck ton of systems and shipped 3 million in the first weeks?

If you developed a great game, well good for you. If it doesn't sell or shift consoles then... well...

SynKade

@Kanik: Switching off the OctoCamo is also Sixaxis-controlled, and less significantly (unless using its first person mode), raising and lowering the head of the Mk. II.

summerdrone

Making long cutscenes is not utilizing Bluray or next gen capabilities. It's just excessive for the sake of being excessive.

It's also kind of degrading to anyone else who's developed a quality game since the system launched with how he singles out MGS4 as the only game doing anything with or for the PS3.

KirbyMorph

@Weirdwolf:

CD's were never touted to be indestructible. Don't know where you got that gem from. Likewise for any optical media, up until the introduction of BD's Durabis. Of course, the BDA didn't do for durability. The data layer is closer to the surface than DVD, so if they didn't use a hard coating, a common scratch would potentially ruin a disc.

SG79

@Spartan1308™:

I never said the multiple disc thing was a jab on the 360. Just a jab on multiple disc games and a plug for Blu-ray. I'm tired of people saying the game is going to the 360. It's become so old that it's annoying to read so many people regurgitating the same shit over and over again. I don't even look at it as an attack on the PS3, but I do think it would be a blow to the PS3 if it did go on the 360, and you'd be crazy not to think that. The same if something like Gears of War went to the PS3.

All I've stated is that with all the evidence we have, it is highly, no make that extremely unlikely that it would show up anywhere else. Konami and Sony would both lose face for doing something like that, especially since MGS4 was included as part of a PS3 bundle. This time around the partnership between Konami and Sony for MGS4 just seems too airtight. Money can sway people over of course, and Microsoft has plenty of it, but again, I don't see Konami making that move.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Kokatu: @Weasel3689: Lost Odyssey wasn't a Square game. It only seemed like a Square game because Sakaguchi was involved and he hasn't had any new ideas since FFIV.

cowondinosaur

@Arsenicberyllium & @beem: I thank you both.

F*cking Fanboy's read & apply these comments! Then Shut your mouths and cross your arms and stay like that...forever ;D

Stupid Rants
The last MGS4 and PS3 related posts have been full of nothing but baseless fanboy rants. Most of the people wanting MGS4 ported to the 360 won't buy it and just want to gloat.

Porting
The only time a port is required is when it adds more to; and betters the game (MGS: Twin Snakes) or when people genuinely want to play the game on their preferred system.

To sum up all the comments(fanboy) i have read in the past few posts: Fucking Fanboys!

Ariance

@jtyson:

I meant optical media in general, and not BD in particular. I wasn't clear enough later. As I said, the numbers are insignificant nowadays.

SG79

@xCruciaLx: Since when do games for the Xbox 360 retail for $50?

jtyson

@SG79: BD rot affected a few titles early in the Blu Ray cycle. Technically, it doesn't "still exist". That's why you haven't heard anybody talk about it in months.

jtyson

@beem:

I rarely see anyone talking about those games showing up on the PS3. I'd say people saying MGS4 on 360 confirmed! comes closer to PS3 owners still poking fun of RROD. They're both old and way overused. Honestly this site has had so many posts about the possibility and denial of MGS4 on the 360 that it just leads to an endless flamewar. I mean look at how many comments are in this thread alone for just that purpose. That's unrealted to the topic at hand.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Weirdwolf:

I guess they can be considered "indestructible" compared to vinyl or cassettes. Not quite though, since durable would be a proper word. Of course, it was nothing compared to the problems LD's had due to poor pressing. That was inherited to early CD's as well, thanks to manufacturers trying to cut costs. Even with proper care, the problem still exists today, though insignificantly.

Funny you should mention BD rot, since it happened with some copies of The Prestige. I naturally conducted a thorough stress test on a BD (free Talladega Nights). That one did just fine, but the fact that rot still exists to this day on any format just show that companies will try to cut costs whenever they can.

SG79

MGS4

PS3:

1 - Blu-Ray Disc
1 - Single Disc Case
1 - Manual
SRP: $60

360:
5-6 - Dual-Layered DVD Disc
3-4 - Double Disc Case
1 - Manual
SRP: $50

What version would profit the most ?

xCruciaLx

@LittleBigPlaneteer:

If you hate the ramblings that Xbots constantly make about MGS4 on 360 and want them to stop, then tell Playslaves to follow the same methods. Tell them to quit making claims that Gears, NG2, Alan Wake, Dead Rising, etc. will get ported to PS3 (without any valid proof).

It would actually be nice for a change if fanboys actually made an attempt to practice what they preach. Not every game you want is going to be multiplat.

beem

And I'm sure it had nothing to do with special edition 80GB PS3's being able to play PS2 games as well as coming with MGS4.

Ryodestined

@fearing: The publishing thing may be an issue. I think the Team Ninja thing makes it more likely.

1)Tecmo needs all the money they can get b/c of this.

2)Wouldn't they want to do it just to spite Itagaki?

Spartan1308™

Ah crap, Mary is obviously the fifth.

Spartan1308™

@Spartan1308™: Although I do think a NG2 port is a lot less likely since MS is the publisher on that game, especially with the whole Team Ninja fiasco at Tecmo going the way it is.

fearing

@jtyson: Ullie

Spartan1308™

@dead_red_eyes: He might not have a source for NG2 specifically, but the same item was in NG1 and that's already on the PS3.

fearing

@dead_red_eyes: It may not be called "Omega" but it will be ported just like MGS4. Source to follow within a year. Both these series have been ported before and it logically follows that they will be again to make more money.

@Ariance: So you tell everyone to shut up and then give your own opinion. Isn't that convenient. Porting is never required, but it is likely when there is a considerable amount of profit to be made from said port.

"Most of the people wanting MGS4 ported to the 360 won't buy it and just want to gloat." This statement has no more basis in fact than everything else that's been said here. It's your guess. Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to tell people not to make guesses about what game will be ported when you have the nerve to tell people what you think they want?

Spartan1308™

@SG79: Fair enough. Now answer me this:

Mary's father has five daughters: Allie, Ellie, Illie, and Ollie. What's the fifth sister's name?

jtyson

@SG79:

Thank you you've just proved my point for me.
While they "were" marketed as indestructible they are not, indestructible compared to "whatever" is not indestructible, we are not going to get our "lifetime" of music out of them. Vinyl is actually quite durable, I've got records from 40 years ago that still play today, oh stereo, how we were amazed by that!
It's not just me that remembers "that gem" here are two articles about C.D.'s from fairly reputable sources that remember the same thing:
[blog.wired.com]
[news.bbc.co.uk]
It may not be that companies try to cut costs,(of course they do,it's what makes all companies profitable and it does cause problems,) but that, as anyone who has done any engineering will tell you, with any new technology there will be new problems even with previously used materials.As we are seeing with some BD and they haven't been around for that long.
It is ridiculous to say that anything is "almost indestructible" as GOD did. All is ephemera, including us, we just have to learn to live with that fact.

Weirdwolf

@Yetanotheruninspiredscreename:
They sacrificed quality for space. Thats what they generally do when they are crunched for space. You could have crysis run a on a n64. but you'd have to strip out a lot. You could have Castlevania: SoTN run on a SNES if you don't mind smaller sprites, less animation, different music, different responsiveness and much less detail.

Compression isn't magic. Lossless compression has very little effect in general on the size of sound or video assets. Higher compression ratios are achieved by sacrificing data. Audio compression only works because of quirks of human hearing and interpolations. Decompression is also not free. While both the PS3 and 360 feature hardware to help some things are still hard. MGS4 featured very good audio mixing. For compressed streams they'd have to either spend CPU resources to do the mixing, live with poorer quality sound, or poorer mixing. For textures and so on you'd notice the degradation from switching from larger textures. Tiling would be one effect which occurs due to few and small texture being used.

All in all, you made trade offs. The more space and power you have the less trade offs.

kingmanic

Ryan Payton had mentioned about compression in an interview after around launch day. So I did a quick search and found:

[kotaku.com]

Anyway, a port is always possible but would the game have the same quality? People already complain about the loading screen interrupting the gameplay. Some of it happens right in the middle of an action sequence. I can't imagine it being better with DVD loading and no hard drive access.

But if you guys really want it that way, have fun.

nou_phabmixay

@Spartan1308™:

Nope it's Allie again, living on as the attached little toe grafted on to the family goldfish.
Honestly I am I the only person who pays attention during the cut scenes!

Weirdwolf

@Weirdwolf:

Yeah, durability is one thing, but without proper care, any media will get damaged easily. The 2nd link to the BBC article with various replies is proof of that. But I still think that the root cause has been manufacturers skimming on material quality. Look at LD's for example. The worst case of rot was from 1996's Eraser, many years after the introduction ofr the format.

I may be paranoid, but I keep my optical media in plastic storage in a dry cool room all year around. I'm glad to say that I haven't had a case of rot since the late 80's :) My brother in law... not so much. He has CD's from 1999 that gave up within 5 years.

Anyway, good tip down memory lane. I think GOD meant the physical durability of the surface by his comment, since BD's are much more scratch resistant than DVD's. You can wipe them with paper towels and they won't scratch.

@jtyson:

Mary.

SG79

FYI there is a lesson for you Sony, make good games and people buy your shit. That is all.

People will buy more PS3s when you release your 9192730 "delayed" games.

KillerBee

@goat999: Yeah, it is.

summerdrone

I was really looking forward to MGS4 and it was a big letdown for me.. too much put into videos and not enough into game play, however I haven't finished the game yet maybe it will get better.
so far it feels over hyped like GTA IV(hated it).

anyways they better not screw up Socom! it's all that's left out of the three games I bought the system for
(GT, MGS, Socom)

jeffreybt

Is that a FROG soldier third from the left? I can't tell.

goat999

@Arsenicberyllium:

Just wanted to mention, the DVD9 discs that 360 actually have only about 7gigs of free space. MS uses 2 gigs alone on some sort of pointless copy protection.

Also, the read-speed that DVD9's provide is halved when reading from the second layer. In essence, its possible that the BD-DVD is going to be streaming data faster, since my guess would be the sound-data is all stored on the first layer of that.

SnakeCL

@Spartan1308™: No, i didn't tell everyone to shutup, i told fanboys to shut up. My statement is in regards to fanboys simply saying it can be done on 360, Kojima doesn't know how to compress; and there is no need for it to be a PS3 exclusive as it is inferior to the 360.

Guessing?
Also i didn't say for people not to make guesses, but when all that is spewing out of their "guesses" is it will come to the 360, PS3 suxs! then i think that they should not "guess" at all.

I am all for opinions, but not fanboy opinions as their opnions are simply the following:

Fanboy: My console is better than yours
Non-fanboy: why?
Fanboy: because i said so!

Ariance

Sheesh, xbox guys get a bunk early port of MGS2: substance and think they're entitled to every would-be ps2/ps3 exclusive ever. Sorry guys, you're gonna have to sit this one out. I wouldn't hold my breath on the performance quality of a hypothetical port either, seeing as the outdoors areas of the tanker mission in substance lagged like the dickens.

JohAE86

@lord.vagos: I totally agree!

Lamilia

@fearing: It still amazes me that people think the PS3 has a chance of getting Ninja Gaiden II.

Does Not Equal

Hirai again saying stupid things (like the dual shock from the past). Now a drive DB 2x is good for console. Yeh, of course... then you need to install some info from the stupid game into the HDD.

If they would be smart... they would do like the good old times. Something smart. For example, like they did with PS2. Instead of trying to use a console to win a format, they simply inserted the DVD after some time, so that they could have a good speed DVD reader!!.

All this ps3 crap was just to win format BD. And for all their stupid strategy, they destroyed the PS name. Bah, i want simply a console. And If with Blu-Ray Drive, Please, put me something like 8x! not the actual 2x from the PS3...that make us install crap in the HDD. Thanks!!!

bubble-bee

@SnakeCL: "...heavy use of blur filters and fog, and lower texture quality..."

Damn, that sounds like what they do with most PS3 games. :)

Rotmm

@Spartan1308™: your source is an interview from when the Wii was still called Revolution.
COME ON!

hotdamn

@GOD: Well i'm a musician :) Some things don't lend themselves to notation.

Sunjammer

@SnakeCL:
DVD9 - 8.54 GB on a single layer DL = is about 16 GB
BR Disc - 25 GB on a single layer. now lets stop there.....

from a technical standpoint,people need to understand that space means something in this day and age of technology. to do MGS4 on 360 would take a restructure in terms of
-video compression
-audio compression
-cut of scenes to reduce size
- reduction of languagues

i mean the list goes on and on... any video game fan that even thinks for a second that this game will get easily ported is delusional. its pretty clear that kojima pushed the limits on blu-ray with his baby,MGS4. so you think after wanting to go beyond that, that somehow he would think..."oh yes it would be great to diminish my finished product, and lose its quality for the sake of pleasing people not interested in buying a ps3."

but you know the haters will read this and still bitch to no end.

now back on topic....lol

i think that sony needs to roll out more bundles, the bundles have really helped move consoles.

zanzibarlegend

@KillerBee: so wait....
with the exception of :
FF13
KZ2

what high profile games for ps3 have been delayed? your obvious stab at sarcasm is full of fail buddy.

zanzibarlegend

so you think after wanting to go beyond that, that somehow he would think..."oh yes it would be great to diminish my finished product, and lose its quality for the sake of pleasing people not interested in buying a ps3."

ha, I never thought of it that way, that's a very interesting and reasonable way to put it.

now I remember why you used to be one of my favorite kotakuites.

hotdamn

Great exclusives? On the PS3?
It's more likely than you think.

Murmaider

@zanzibarlegend: DVD is ~4.7 GB per layer. So a DL is 8.5 GB

kingmanic

@kingmanic: I expect this sort of prattle from the fanboys, who use their hearts rather than their minds to debate the relative merits of their preferred platforms (a more foolish endeavor I can't imagine). When the best advantage an exec can produce is disk space, I think you see and admission that the consoles are at parity, which belies all the spin that both MS and Sony used to tout their consoles initially. BTW, the PS1 initially gained ground over the N64 because the media were cheaper, increasing the margins for the developers; the added capacity wasn't all that important until games like FFVII came out and showcased the gameplay advantages of the CD format. By then, Nintendo had already lost its third part support due to the cost of its cartridges and its own punitive licensing scheme.

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I mentioned Sony because the article was about Sony. I agree that this sort of nonsense is typical for all companies, including Sony's competitors.

@GOD: I couldn't give a shit if Oblivion's expansions all came on one disc rather than on multiple discs, and certainly would not make a console purchase based upon this. Also, the reason you're not seeing the extra content you describe isn't that developers are lacking disk space, it's because they are lacking time. There are financial pressures to release a title, and the current accepted model is to release a full game and then add more tracks/maps/weapons/etc. via downloadable content later on.

@ALL FANBOYS:
Look, it's swell that the PS3 uses Blu-Ray for its storage, but for gaming it's a marginal advantage over the 360, at best. And no rational person would be swayed by Kaz's argument to the contrary.

How do people develop an emotional attachment to piece of electronics? Hell, I've owned nearly every console since the Atari 2600, and none of them made me feel like I needed to passionately defend their merits vs. their competition. If hearing someone say something critical about your 360/PS3/Wii, or positive about their 360/PS3/Wii, makes you feel like you need to take up arms for a cause, you need help.

AtomicPlayboy

I didn't know that 70,000 / 10,000 = 8, but thanks anyway Kaz.

gencid

enigma89:
I think people wait because they're afraid of the next Duke Nukem Forever. And lord knows we still have a few years before FFXIII ever sees the light of day.

Xagest

@Ariance: The comments you made seemed to indicate that anyone who had chimed in on the topic and stated that MGS4 would ported should be considered a fanboy. The comment about the only time a port is required was either irrelevant or you were saying that you didn't think a port would be made unless it added stuff, and that just isn't true anyway.

@hotdamn: The 360 hardware was out and in the hands of devs at the time as stated by Kojima. He had some idea at that point what was possible on the 360. I've played the game all the way through. I spent about 23 hours on it. It looks very nice, but it isn't a leap beyond graphics we've already seen on the 360 in something like Gears of War, Bioshock or even COD4. There's nothing about it that is impossible on 360 with the exception of putting it on one disc, which doesn't really matter. The funny thing here is that people who are saying that it will be ported for the most part aren't even arguing that the 360 is better. They're just saying that it will be ported, and that alone is angering people. The only fanboys here are the guys saying "shut up and get a PS3 if you want to play the game b/c it isn't technically possible or that we know it's a possibility that it's possible but we don't know if it's possible". It will be exclusive for a while, and then the guys who only have 360s will get to play too. If it is true that "Sony doesn't pay for exclusives", then this game will go to 360. Why can't people just be happy for those people who wouldn't get to play it otherwise and for Kojima and team getting a larger audience for their great work?

Spartan1308™

Considering the fact that Kojima put a "no need to swap discs when using a Blu-Ray" joke, I seriously doubt that he is interested in going backwards technologically in order to put out a 5 disc MGS4 on the 360.

Mr.SithNinja

@jtyson: Mary.

ese

And I wonder how much less disk space would be used without all those cinematics.

hammerhand

Gee, sure is Playstation around here.

But that's a good thing. I friggin' love it!

Lootskin

@AtomicPlayboy: I totally agree. While I did enjoy the game and all, I think that the people raving over the fact that it uses the full disc space of the blu-ray is a bit retarded considering the fact that none of the audio is compressed.

Personally, I'd seriously like to see how many DVDs it would fit on if you compressed everything like you would a normal game. The game *might* have been two discs long, but I doubt it. And with the audio compressed, they could have at least added the multi-language audio tracks to the game like originally planned instead of only allowing one language.

Perhaps in the near future Sony will congratulate another developer for making their game 2 blu-ray discs long by padding out a text file to 40gb in size. That'll show Microsoft!

Tayruh

@PITwelve:
keep dreaming. The only MGS game that came out was MGS2 subsistence for the xbox. And there are no plans of making MGS4 for the xbox360. xp

ViciousViper