I think hellgate would have been better as a single player game. I believe that is why Oblivion is still single player, and why fallout 3 will not be an MMO, either. It is really not a good time to release an MMO, unless, you are sure that your MMO is going to be the greatest MMO ever created...otherwise it will fail, or not do as well as you hope.

I think that is one of the many reasons Warhammer Online is not out yet.

stetsonblade

@Preyfar: For distilling your opinion on the game from a nuanced paragraph to a 1-10 score let me be the first to say:

FUCK YOU!

That is all.

Ghede

im starting to realize that, every game thats been hyped and promised to be AMAZING, DEPTH-DEFYING, REVOLUTIONARY, has turned out to be nothing more than just hype. Haze, kane and lynch for example.

while games that stay under the radar get more praise.

-HeyWowItsFelipe-

To bad as that game is absolutly fantastic,best character models of any rpg ever.Funniest thing about that game is,people are screaming for Diablo 3.Well guess what,if you didn't like HGL,you likely won't like D3.

xIvSlowDeath420

@Sollus: And then the release date is pushed back, and gamers complain anyway (see: Final Fantasy XII, and now XIII). You're right, but I see where the pressure comes from.

broomperson

Were they not being pushed to have the game out by Halloween by the money backing them?

Vash108

Why don't they reserve themselves to make a better game next time as opposed to letting us stupid savages(gamers) run them down. Screw people like us.

Sollus

@RaptorShadow: In this world, especially in the videogame industry, if your work comes up short, then you lose. If you do come up short, lady luck better be on your side. I have let go of employees for lot less.

This game is not 5 star perfect, but it is very well fitting for a 2 star game. Not every critics that tossed this game in the garbage bin is a cynic, some of them are average people who came up short and still crucified this game.

PsycheE

I think gamers have changed since diablo II. So even if the mechanics were perfect and spot on and only offered what diablo II offered it may not have been enough. From what I hear the game was flawed and probably not ready for release which added to its problems. Maybe another few months of polish and they might have had a winner. Maybe a little less hype and it would have been received better. Who knows, I hope there is a diablo iii and it wouldn't be bad if flagship was contracted to do it. I'd buy that.

kingmanic

I was sorta looking forward to this game last year. Now I'm looking forward to Mythos, I'm hearing awesome stuff from beta testers.

Laughin_Caulk

You know, looking back I quite enjoyed the Hellgate Beta, I really should go and pick up a copy...

And I agree, sometimes I don't think we realise that the people who make games aren't just the producers and PR drones that we see so much of, there are normal, average people that work on these games, and most of them work very hard at what they do. Sometimes they come up a bit short, but that's happened to everyone, right?

Gamers are too ready to jump on to anything that isn't 5-star perfect and tear it to shreds.

RaptorShadow

"It's probably best for us all to keep in mind that behind every big publisher's title is a team of developers who hoped to provide the best experience they could, human beings who feel bummed out when the results aren't what they hoped."

That's true sometimes. Other times, (see: most movie games and Wii games without a Nintendo label) publishers push out a title just for some dollars, and then move on to the next money maker. In this case, I think it's obvious the publishers put their all in, without reward. Part of a gamer's disappointment comes from anticipation that turns to meh. You can't blame either party in this case.

broomperson

I didn't like Hellgate at all; just not my bag of bricks, as it were. The problem for me wasn't just that it didn't end up what it was hyped to be: it was that I didn't actually like the result, either. I'm not sure I could give it a score so much as a "better luck next time, Flagship."

That said, I know a handful of people who enjoy the game well enough. It almost seems like Flagship ended up a victim of circumstances, but without having any eyes into the development and release process, we can't really know.

antialias02

I liked Hellgate. It's just that I already had 4 years of Diablo II under my belt, and I just couldn't take anymore.

Krackatoa

At the end of the day, these guys are just like anyone else-- they worked very hard, and came up a bit short. It happens. I'm glad the fan response didn't mess any of these guys up. Depression can be triggered by anything, and it's a serious thing to deal with.

wild homes v: treyarch attacks

Its a double edged sword. It is a shame that Hellgate was received with such criticism. The game was put on a pedastool before the release with all the hoopla of creaters of Diablo leaving Blizzie, and the ensuing drama.

I distinctly remember the interview of Mr. Roper gloating Hellgate as it were the second coming of Diablo and all your loot runs are belong to us.

Obviously the game sucks, the backlash was inevitable.

PsycheE

Ah the video game community, the ability to be anonymous and voice your opinion no matter what it is...double-edged sword that's for sure.

exkon

If hellgate gets re-released this halloween, I would totally give it another try. Flagship will have a win with Mythos, I have easily spent more time playing that beta than I did playing the purchased copy of hellgate.

myrlin

I was pretty disappointed with Hellgate. It wasn't a bad game, but the spin machine had taken it to Herculean levels that no launch could realistically satisfy. It's a difficult line to walk!

onidavin

Hellgate was a bit of a dissapointment, but was a good game overall. Frankly, I think a painfully disappointing new player experience sullied the game over all. The starting areas were boring, drab and dull in every possible way. If you could get past that the game got much better and stronger as a whole. Problem is, those starting levels were just that bad that it reflected poorly as whole on the rest of the game.

I'd give it a 6/10 myself. If they had revamped the newbie zones and tutorial areas to be less suck... I'd probably give it a 7/10.

Preyfar

This sort of thing doesn't surprise me in the least.

I've been attending college in San Francisco, and for one of my final classes over the last quarter my instructor said he's be bring in one of his friends from Flagship studios to rate the quality of our Game Prototype.

The reaction from just about everyone was "Why?"

Atheist Jew

I went back and played Hellgate recently and it is a pleasant surprise. Things are much better than they were at launch, I'm even considering subscribing at this point. It is much more entertaining than AoC at this point.

darvos

@Leigh Alexander: You're right, of course, and there was a typo. I meant that the publishers push out titles, and the "developers" put their all in (when I said the "publishers" put their all in). My point was that developers are rushed to get out a product that is crap, even if they know it's crap.

broomperson

@Sinnix: You should go pick it up then friend,as the bugs are quashed and alot of content which was supposed to be in at launch is now there(clue #1 that it was rushed)and a shitton more.Really and truly the game should be rereviewed but alas,thats not how things work:)

xIvSlowDeath420

Damn, now I feel kinda bad that I cancelled my pre-order. Of course, the beta couldn't run for an hour without crashing which is why I decided not to purchase. The foundation of a great game was there though. I'd pick it up again if I knew it would run.

And, of course, Mythos looks friggin' awesome. They can count me in on that one for sure!

Sinnix

@broomperson: The publisher's job is to make money, but the developers they hire are trying to do their best work, or at the very least, feel like crap when things don't turn out well.

Leigh Alexander

I can agree with the statement that if the game you work so hard on doesn't live up to yours or the community's expectations, you can get a little depressed. I could say such about every title I have thus far been involved with.

Luckily, our offices share a building with a pub, as well as having another pub across the way from us, so "relief" is close at hand.

E_Sully

Hellgate was just released too early imo. If they had another 6ish months to work on it I'm sure the game would've had a must nicer reception and larger player base.

SpishackCola

They could have had 10 more years, it does not change the fact that the product itself was outdated. The gameplay was nothing new, the graphics were extremely hw-prohibitive, the business model was not fair play. Another game in which you binge drink health potions while spam clicking on anything that is not you. IF you die, then bad luck your level is not high enough for the "balls to the walls" approach.

Asbestos_Underwear

HellGate wasn't as bas as people make it out to be. The problem was they rushed a unfinished product. If they halted it another 3 months to work out everything it would have had a solid launch. Its a shame I liked but didn't buy because Toyrus tried to shaft me.

Majpain007

What a mess of a game. Here, let me fix that headline:

"Flagship Studios On Life Support After Hellgate Launch"

Silverbackne

I played Hellgate from launch for about 3-4 weeks, and it was a cool concept wrapped in a huge shit burrito.

Strangelove

I was very stoked for this game before it released, but every time I saw a new screen shot it more or less looked the exact same as the last. Alright I lied, the user interface, inventory and menu system changed a couple times. Still, Hellgate: London is one of the most bland games I've ever played. I'm thankfully to my "back of the bus" senses for refusing to let me purchase this generic array of grey imagination.

Replica23

In related news, I totally got Flagshipped by Age of Conan.

Silverbackne

It wasn't such a bad game, not particularly good either, but it certainly was serviceable. If some new content were to come out for none subscribers, I wouldn't be opposed to playing it.

Pezdispenser

Hey so that's what happened to Ivan Sulic. He used to write some really funny stuff for IGN and EGM.com before it became 1up.com.

Jay

You know, I wonder if it occurs to the blogging press that maybe they're the reason for companies with total news blackouts zealously concealing all humanity from behind the curtain of development?

This guy obviously had an off day and wrote about how crappy things were going at his job and how the company was going downhill, but the blogging press jumps on it as if it's the deathknell for the company itself.

You know that if he wasn't the last member of the original programming team left, he would probably get fired over this normally?

It does kind of show, though, that the company needs to pull together and focus on what they have. No amount of side projects is going to make up for losing focus on a living, breathing game.

Hell, look at EVE Online. I thought it died years ago, but because of the MMO boom, it's looking healthier than ever now. There is something to be said for being a survivor.

Coherent

@Strangelove: You played a shit burrito for 3 or 4 weeks?How long do you play games you like?

xIvSlowDeath420

i wanted to like hellgate but its a piece of crap. too early, too many bugs. they knowingly released a buggy piece of sh!t and even tried to sell $150 lifetime subscriptions. buggy multiplayer, buggy maps, buggy spawns, buggy parties, repititious levels, im glad i got rid of it. seriously, all you do is walk around holding the mouse button down. no reload (for guns), no brains, no fun. yay! a hidden passageway in a hidden passageway! woot!

hellbent

Hellgate is the perfect example of a game trying to do too much. They should of stuck with the Diablo isometric perspective. Anyway Mythos is a better game. Hellgate will go on and do ok and I hope Flagship learns from it.

Unstop

Hellgate headed downhill as soon as the words "subscription" and "revenue streams" started flying around their offices.

That changed their focus and screwed whatever good parts they had been working on.

ArcaneDevice

Hellgate is still the game I play every day. I like it. I bought the lifetime subscription with the pre-order and it's been worth it. The 2.0 Abyss patch hits within a month and that's going to add a lot of new content too. The main problems were mostly touched on already:

Wayyyy too many bugs at launch.
Poor optimization.
Too many features not included.
Too much scrutiny and expectation.
EA published.
Subscription model.

But: The bugs are being squashed, slowly but surely. It's better optmized now but that still needs work. A lot of features that weren't included at launch like guild support and a shared stash are now included (desperately still need auction house pls.) The subscription sucks, but people are paying fees to play games that I don't think are nearly as fun, and certainly don't have the communication between the devs and the players that FSS strive for. And you can play online without subscribing, you just don't get all the content they continue to work to add. Which is perfectly fair to be honest.

P.S. Good riddance, Hu, your pistol is damned overpowered :)

Karlott

I never got to play Hellgate, but the PCbangs are full of people playing it here in Korea.

skAnarky

i loved the concept art of the characters... then came the storyline i was like meh. Then i saw the in game play i was like meh. Then i got into beta and played the first few levels and that made me meh.

It just didnt have that diablo oomph instead of meh.

Leepox

Gotta say I did really really like Hellgate.

I don't think I'd bother with the MMO aspect of it; because - honestly - it's a single-player game with a "Look! MMO!" badge slapped onto it; but the single-player part was damn nice.

When I tried the MMO part it was laggy and ick; but the single-player game was damn nice... FPS targetting and cover in an RPG? Me likey.

Shimmergeek

I would totally "vouch" for this game if it came to the 360...

purplehanz

@xIvSlowDeath420:

The loot, man, the loot ... Plus all kinds of weird upgrades and artifacts and you can level up your gear/weapons as you go, it's sooooo addictive.

Strangelove

I never got into the whole Diablo thing, so I passed on Hellgate. I am however interested in trying Mythos when it reaches open beta...hopefully soon.

ShadowMoses

you know, since this game was essentially the firs title from a newly formed studio, i wasn't expecting it to be spectacular. however, i did hope it would be successful enough for them to be around to make a Hellgate London 2, which would be made bigger, better, and with the lessons learned from the first Hellgate under their belt.

hellgate 2 would have been great fun- like Diablo II was. almost nobody even knows about the original Diablo, except for the fact that, logically, Diablo II is the second game, and there must have been a first.

sadly, hellgate 2 might never happen.

willyolio

I was very excited for Hellgate, but in the state the game was in, it was un-playable.
Also, it did not help PR that they went into the forums and deleted all negative posts.

HappyWulf

Fire the marketing team. Now.

Saying HG:L is an MMO is like saying Starcraft/D2 was an MMO. It had an online multiplayer component, but the mutliplayer wasn't massive...

haracas

The makers of Hellgate should not feel bad at all about what they created. Sure, it never lived up to the hype, but it wasn't a bad game.

I mean, come on! They could've been the ones who created Lair!

goddessakasha

Hellgate is just as decent of a game as World of Conan and I think it actually looks better. They should have shipped six months late. The most of their problems would have been solved.

chongbong

I'm just thinking that maybe they should look at doing something a little bit different than an "unofficial" Diablo 3. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that its a bad game, but randomly created dungeons only goes so far in todays gaming market, most players are looking for more than that in their RPG's even if they do have "Massively Multiplayer Co-Op." It was fun, but after the main single player campaign missions which make up the base part of your multiplayer experience, you start off back at the beginning with everything at a higher level. I haven't gone back since then because I really don't see the point in repeating the same missions again. Granted they have released the expansion pack, but you can only access that and the new missions available in patch 2.0 as a subscriber, and quite frankly I don't think it's worth it.

Maybe I'll give it another shot when that patch is officially released on the main server, since they are adding a whole list of PVP arenas and ranking, but they really should just make the extra missions non-subscriber and make the expanded storage slots and usable pets and stuff subscriber. Otherwise you will end up with a lot of people who don't have the money or the will to pay and who stop playing after they beat the final boss in the game.

CoffeeBlack

This story actually first broke over at Flagshipped.com and was picked up by Incgamers. Recently another FSS employee has spoken out about his frustrations with people that play the game and the people that run flagshipped.com
[www.flagshipped.com]

Flagshipped

While the comments (on other forums) calling for burning torches, and developers heads ornately mounted on pikes are a little much. The multiple volleys of criticism directed towards Flagship and it's staff was largely deserved. Hellgate was and still is grade-A certified pooh-pooh ka-ka. This isn't mere speculation as I played the game at it's release and soldiered on through subsequent patches. Recycling four monotonous quests, in five different gray on gray environments is not entertaining. Then after factoring in the show stopper bugs. Apparent abandonment by the developer once they realized future plans to create revenue streams are zilch. Subsequent lack of promised content updates because of such. You're left with a very poor product. While I certainly feel for the poor soul on the other side of screen who invested considerable time and emotion into the project, criticism when justified is deserved. In the end you reap what you sow, and in Flagship's case they squatted over the bowl of candy cane wishes and sunrise endings, to sow a big stinky, peanut infested turd.

LanciePants