You mean the 360 was a rush job just so that it would come out a year ahead of the competition and that they cut all sorts of corners in hopes of not losing their ass this time?

I'm never heard that before. These guys are really impressive intellects to draw such conclusions. I mean where could they have gotten these wild ideas? Oh wait, I know, every single blogger circa 2005.

subnet6

@AtomicPlayboy: The chance that you might get RROD keeps you from a 360? I don't understand this.

Some people would rather miss years of Xbox 360 gaming for fear of RROD than play an XBox 360 for months, possibly get RROD, possibly won't, but if you do, your console is only gone for 2 weeks?

Basically, you/these "waiters" can't handle not gaming for 2 weeks but you can handle not gaming for years?

Isn't that a little silly, and backwards? Maybe you just don't want to support a flawed system, but whatever the case, it's a shame people are scared to play 360 when this is really a small issue.

karasu is my homeboy

The truth is quite boring. I believe this calls for a separate article to be written, one that tries to find out more about this mysterious deal of Bill Gates with Satan.

Samos42

Oh how convenient, Its just a boring old story. Nothing to see here. So, no one is going to go after what MS is doing to fix the problem.
I just got a 360, but honest to God, I will be scared everytime I play on that thing. I would rather just stick with my PS3, but there's a few games I want to rent for the XBox. Don't really wanna help them out in their monthly attach-ratio numbers bullshit. Damn you exclusives!

hchaudh1

Well going on with the Satan thing, you guys know that when it gets a full 4 light RRoD then it'll be the end of the world, right? >_>

But anyways yeah that is lame, but a good move by MS because it screwed them over just as they tried to screw with us, with their own chip that they never tried to make before.

online.chaos

I just received mine back from MS for the third time. Which doesn't seem unusual since it's MS. But, the day I dropped it off to send back, my elite went out. So, I just had my arcade to play with. I was so pissed. I ended up with a free controller, but I mean, with how many times I've set up repair tickets with them, you'd think I'm a valued customer. Just because they've talked to me so many times!

Beatboxtaun

@ManjiKengo:
This article IS crap.

As far as I can can remember MS has never issued a recall for the 360. They have never pulled units from shelves and completely replaced units in the field.

So that doesn't go along with reality. I also remember that AMD pulled some pretty awesome magic with the 360 in regards to gpu design that it has included the new cards.

Techguy1138

@AtomicPlayboy: the problem is that you will refuse to come around period. once that fear is set in, you can't get around it. same thing with me and expensive things getting delivered through usps, ups and fedex.

ManjiKengo

@TaggarT6: cheaper that's why.

ManjiKengo

@KaliKOtt: Ditto. I'd like to have a 360, but absolutely refuse to pony up for one until the RRoD issue is settled. Fortunately, most of the games I want to play (COD4, Mass Effect, Bioshock, etc.) have been ported to the PC, but I'd still like to do some gaming on couch on my HDTV. I wish MS would stop being so cagey about the issue so that I could get some hard data about whether the Falcon/Jasper chipsets were a safe bet. I wonder how many others out there are also waiting it out, and just how much cash MS is leaving on the table?

AtomicPlayboy

@string_theory: exactly what I was under the impression was going on with the pre august 2007 360s.

ManjiKengo

@Arnold Rimmer's Garden Strimmer: as i stand to salute the awesome power of this post, all i can hear is the benny hill theme song... oh look, nurses!

adaorardor

I did always wonder why nvidia wasn't use for the 360 even though they were praised for there chipsets in the original xbox.

TaggarT6

@KaliKOtt: I haven't seen any post august 2007 360s come into my store with rrod. They've had other random weird shit go wrong though, like the av output dying.

ManjiKengo

@VBerg: It's not ATi. ATi's new graphics board the 4850 is actually going to run very cool compared to nVIDIA's. ATi has also been on a 45nm process since last year while nVID has been on 90nm.

in Sept the GPU will be reduced again in the 360 (Jasper) & all the problems should vanish completely.

string_theory

this article is kinda crap.

From the source article.

Jenos
Network Admin
commented on Jun 10, 2008 7:37:29 PM
...well the gpu in the xbox 360 is actually and ATI chip designed by ATI, and had nothing to do with the cause of the failures, that was do to a bad cooling system design. Also there was never a recall, just a warranty extension for the particular problem that was caused by a cooling system issue. Good to see people still toss articles together without doing any wasteful research.
"

ManjiKengo

Wait... what recall?

RedWire75

I thought it was because of faulty Non-PB BGA solder balls. Leaving cracks in the solder process which caused loss of contact when the excess heat put pressure on the joint.

Maybe they meant that the GPU created a lot of heat which made the BGA fail. But the almost all RRoD is caused by contact loss.

Which is why 65nm & the bigger heatsink was added to fix it.

string_theory

@ManjiKengo:

Microsoft: We do not comment on our involvement with Satan.

Sinnbox

The very thing preventing me from getting a 360. Are the new Chipsets Falcon/Jasper still getting the RROD?

KaliKOtt

@bobdisgea: Dude throws some awesome parties, though.

futurebiblehero

So it's ATI's fault then?
I loved ATI until shortly before they got bought by AMD, now they are no competition for NVidia.
Although, ATI also designed the GPU for the Wii. And my Wii is way quieter than my 360 and has never overheated.
Of course it's not a graphical powerhouse like the 360 but it seems like a well designed chip none the less.

VBerg

@ManjiKengo: yeah, i don't really understand this either

TheHun

Just goes to show what happens when you think short term and try to penny pinch. In the end it costs you much more. I say i hope all companies learn from this, but no one ever learns from the past.

Neo-Senku

what a twist?

Gypse-scum

"The Xbox 360 recall a year ago happened because "Microsoft wanted to avoid an ASIC vendor," said Lewis. Microsoft designed the graphic chip on its own, cut a traditional ASIC vendor out of the process and went straight to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. Ltd., he explained. To fix the problem, Microsoft went back to an unnamed ASIC vendor based in the United States and redesigned the chip, Lewis added. (Based on a previous report, the ASIC vendor is most likely the former ATI Technologies, now part of AMD.)"

Waaaaait a second there, I thought the little demon box was powered by ati from the get go.

ManjiKengo

@kumuasata: *Puts on flame suit* They're always purdy bad 'round these times. Try ta tell 'em to refrain from talking 'bout them red rings, but dey don't lissen to ol' enigma. Nope nope. The flames be worser when the 'boys pretend they ain't flamin' and claim that dey own all of the systems. These days're gettin' worse.

enigma89

I have to send in my 360 again and this will be the 3rd time in less then 2 years. I told them to give me a elite to make sure this doesn't happen again but i don't think that will happen.

phatpride1

MS has all your base.

Idk I'm bored, but we could only expect flame wars, so everyone put your flame suits on.

Also Satan owes me a PS3 :P

kumuasata

man..i hate satan

bobdisgea

@Arnold Rimmer's Garden Strimmer: Bazing!

ManjiKengo

I just came here to say that it's pretty clear the Wii is the gateway into hell. It even says it in the Manual that nobody has read, save me.
It explains that Nintendo made a deal with Satan, garnering the Wii massive success, but that each Wii would act as a gateway to hell, activated by the user waving their arms in front of the console in a way that would summon up demons.

The Xbox 360 is the brave soldier in that fight. Each time an Xbox 360 red-rings, it's an Angel Kamakazing to take down thousands of Wiimons.
Considering how many 360's have red-ringed, Microsoft is the greatest organization on the planet.

Palladium

This isn't going to be pretty :|

okenny :)

uh, there was a "recall" last year? So....the chip they used caused massive overheating and other things?

btw, the satan story would be a bit better. Good thing you didn't contact Microsoft, I'm sure they would deny everything.

ManjiKengo

Hmm I wonder what the bet was. I bet it was epic....See what I did there? *flees*

Arnold Rimmer's Garden Strimmer

My third's down right now.

I believe the Satan story.

.endejas.

interesting... here comes anti MS talk

ZetaCrossfire

@floppylobster:
Don't forgat about PS2 DRE's and The PS1 upside down trick.
:)

JackMehoffer

I thought this was well known at this point. The GPUs been blamed for the RRoD for a long time now.

-Soul-

Love my 360 but the problem is I have been through 2 pros and am currently on my 2nd elite the ps3 has been reliable so far and its nice to have for what I call my 360 "vacations"

fisho420

@karasu is my homeboy: I don't think it's silly. I would rather wait for a sign that things are fixed, than have to go through the effort and frustration involved in having a console die on me.

The reason I have ditched PC gaming for consoles is because I don't want to have to stuff around, having random problems.

There are at least half a dozen titles I want on the 360, but considering all my friends, save one have had to return their 360's multiple times, I would rather wait.

And the real clincher is -- I am lazy, and theoretically the longer I wait, the cheaper, and better the 360 is before I buy it.

Polite Society

The PlayStation 2 has jaggies, Saturns can't do 3D, the Gamecube is a kiddie's machine, the Lynx has no battery life, the 360 is always RRODing, PC's cost too much, the Jaguar's controller gives me epilepsy.

We need some new consoles for a fresh flame war. We all know the issues now.

We might as well complain about Nintendo and the way they forced you to blow into the cartridge slots to make them work. Why couldn't they have designed a fan coming out of the front of the NES? That was just lazy and cheap of them.

floppylobster

Who cares, the gaming community knows all to well the vast problems with the 360. And the ridiculously high broken from the package rate the system has. And yet people still buy them. Focus on why they do? Especially those who have(at least claim) to have gone through..2...3... 4 or more broken systems in a row. And yet still buy another..

Xbox 360 is a bigger sink hole than MMO's.

moe84

funny mine died today.......know I think this may have something to do with the burning pentagram in our front yard....hhmmmm

_Ted_

@floppylobster:

Saturn also can't do transparency. The ultimate 2d system can't actually do what the snes did?

Lol seriously though nice post.

CCCombobreaker

It's not the GPU.

It's the retention mechanism on the heatsink for the GPU.

I have fixed dozens of 360s with RROD. Every single one was fixed by removing the clamps on the heatsinks and replacing them with screws.

BrywalkerX

But I thought Sony was in league with the devil...oh, no, never mind, they were just trying to buy Hell.

ubiquitous

For people confused about the ATI vs M$ issue: I work for a company that uses ATI GPUs (non-gaming related). ATI designed and manufactured the GPU used in the 360, but it is up to Microsoft (or an external company they contract for the work) to design the chip on to a board that is usable for the 360. This work includes a cooling solution. My company buys GPUs from ATI/AMD, but we have a custom board onto which those GPUs are installed.

It is similar to how you can buy an NVidia graphics card for a PC from seven different companies: those are all custom-designed boards that all use the same GPU chip.

SynVis

My Elite Red Ringed of Death last night, after the girl who was watching our dog fell asleep and left it on without realizing for almost two days...

It died playing Ninja Gaiden II

I packed it up, took it to my local Best Buy, (minus the Hard Drive)and used my 2yr. replacement plan and had a new Elite manufactured on 4-18-08 up and running on my system within an hour.

I still don't understand why people don't invest in these plans on a console purchase that is over $400

For a little over the price of one game, I saved myself six weeks worth of headaches.

Soooo worth it for me.

I also came up in that the newer version of the Elite had the Marvel Ultimate Alliance/Forza 2 pack in. Two games I did not have, so that was a score right there.

**I can say without hesitation this new console runs much, much quieter and than my last Elite**

I would almost put it at the same level of noise as my PS3.

I think anyone still on the fence about a 360 because of the Red Rings, should feel pretty good about the latest build. Much quieter and stable.

I don't know if mine has the new chipset, but I'm assuming it at least has the new heatsinks?

Still. Any console should have a 2yr extended warranty with it.

I got my Wii through work and don't have an extended warranty and hope it does not die on me.

Pay_Me_Or_Pay_Me_No_Attention

Pfff @ this.

The GPU and the heat it generates isn't the issue. The manner in which it is attached to the board, the board's mounting and the heatsink mounting are what cause all the problems (hence the reason Falcons continue to die in unacceptable numbers).

All of this could be drastically reduced simply and cheaply by MS if they so choose. But they won't, cause they want us to buy the Xbox 720 (I've preordered ;) ) and they want to make sure your beloved 360 is well and truely dead just to give you that extra incentive to move on...

fahrenheit

@Bunn: Thanks for starting so aggressively. Helps prove your point, after all.

Well, obviously you have a special circumstance. There are plenty of people who literally do not buy the 360 because they do not want to have to ship their 360 in that prepaid box and be without it for a couple weeks. They're scared of RROD and getting it. So they don't play 360 games for years when they admit they want to. Why not just play them, and not play 360 for a couple weeks if this not-even-guaranteed to happen problem happens to you?

You have a solid reason. Plenty of other people are just scared. I've seen plenty of these topics made at 360 forums I frequent.

karasu is my homeboy

They seriously need to focus on fixing it. After it is a less failure rate, THEN I will buy a 360. Until then I'm staying away and will just use my friends.

Chaospluto

...My RRoD theory is better.

My theory is that the very nature of a game console causes it to open up a series of spacetime rips within them. Most consoles can withstand this, however, since the first unit created did not fail. Unfortunately, in the case of the 360, it's first produced unit had a "general hardware failure", and when these rips open up, they will sometimes cause the innards of said xbox 360 to become those of the first RRoDed unit.

trelantana

@string_theory: I think what we are all missing here is the fact that it is only a ATI designed chip not an ATI manufactured chip. They did not integrate this into the 360, Microsoft did. Essentially licensed plans for a partially modified ATI R520. ATI had no control over the manufacturing process, therefore packaging and integration were microsoft's responsibility. And that is precisely where they dropped the ball. Does anyone remember the underfill story where they essentially glued the chip to the PCB. That was most likely ATI stepping in to help MS fix its little problem.

torched

How ironicly, my Xbox 360 got RROD yesterday due to the failure/overheating of the graphics chip/GPU...

Prime-Omega

If it has since been redesigned, how come there are still 360 failing. Are they saying there's no bad batch out there? I mean I might want to invest in a 360, but I have no idea if I'm going to get a good one and I'm not taking any risk. Unless there's a way for me to identify it, I'm not buying it. Would like to know which are the newer, quieter, unlikely to die model.

karateka

This is my comment to this story. See my comment? That's the only comment I will make...

bobtheduck

@karasu is my homeboy: Maybe you should stop assuming stuff. I myself didn't got a 360 and got a PS3 only because of RROD problems. The fact that I have to import a console and that I'm left out cold if I need tech support (Brazil, go figure) is a big deal for me.

And yeah, I'd probably wait if I lived on the States too. I do believe the 360's games are better, but wen I see that most of the editors had problems with theirs, and Crescente got through like NINE 360s... (I say the editors because we can't trust in comment data). So, yeah, I like working game consoles thank you. Yes I'd like to play those 2 weeks as well. Because I have nothing to do? No, quite the contrary. In the little chances I get to enjoy my gaming, I want it to be available.

Bunn

@karateka: The third generation models can be recognized by looking at the box. If the power brick has a consumption of 175w, then you're golden. If it says 204w, then it's old.

However, it would pretty much be impossible to find a launch unit, or even a second-gen unit on store shelves. They sold out long ago, and the latest versions have been manufactured for almost a year now.

Apparently, an even newer update will be on the shelves relatively soon.

mind in rewind

I am so glad I held off getting a 360! I've never had a piece of hardware go wrong on me, and I don't plan on starting now...my sympathies go to the victims of this senseless act of design.

ShadowMoses

@JackMehoffer:
The upside-down trick is my favorite quirk.

@moe84: They're not buying more generally, they're usually just getting them back from being refurbished. The problem is Microsoft does everything they can to keep the old ones circulating; if they can fix it, they're going to keep it out there. So if you send a ghetto old 360 in for repair, the one you get back has a high likelyhood of being just as crappy.

cowondinosaur

A Slashdotter already pointed out the errors in the EEtimes story:

[winbreak.com]

fuchikoma

@online.chaos: so if i unplus the graphics cable from the back of the 360, its the ned of the world.

detraya

They kind of lost me at "recall."

Dirk Dorkelson

@cowondinosaur:

Best Buy is their own machine. You can still get the warranty there.

They offer the warranty on all products above a certain price point.

They also offer the warranty at different prices based on the value of the item.

For example, a Best Buy 2year extended warranty on a PSP is $20.

Most other in store warranties at places like Gamestop or Toys R US are not worth it.

Let me be clear why I like the Best Buy one over any others, and in effect why I keep my console purchases to Best Buy... (though the store as a whole has many problems, I'm not a unabashed supporter of BB)...

When you buy the warranty nine times out of ten; you bring your bricked console back, and you walk out with a brand new one SAME DAY.

That's the only reason to ever indulge Best Buy, SAME DAY exchange.

Which is exactly what happened with me yesterday and my Elite.

$80. If you just factor it in as part of the console price, when saving up your pennies, then it's worth it.

The ONE CAVEAT:

After the first year expires, you can only exchange the item one more time during the second year.

I'm not sure if this applies to only 360's or all Best Buy products.

Seriously kids, buy your consoles at Best Buy. Until they change their policy. Then, who knows...

It's the only reason I shop at the yellow and blue.

I don't shop at Gamestop at all. Mainly because of principle on how they gouge the used games market and in effect take money out of the developer's hands.

Pay_Me_Or_Pay_Me_No_Attention

@Pay_Me_Or_Pay_Me_No_Attention:

Those in-store warranties are generally not available now for the 360s. Microsoft wants to handle all of it. I know for a fact you cannot get an in-store warranty for at least all Gamestops. However, if you already bought one before MS' new warranty plan before Microsoft stopped retailers from offering them (before their super duper extended warranty of justice), they will still honor it.

cowondinosaur

"Microsoft has ranged from mum to cagey on the exact source of the hardware issue that has red ringed thousands upon thousands of Xbox 360s"

MILLIONS!

-Lex Luthor

LittleBigPlaneteer

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh that Satan. He's a shifty one.

Cygnes

@Pay_Me_Or_Pay_Me_No_Attention: Uhm, If your system bricked, and you have the extended in store warranty, gamestop pretty much covers it unless there is no replacement in store that day.

Gamestop prp pretty much covers stuff just short of acts of god, as long as the product is still in 1 piece and doesn't show purposeful damage, we'll replace it.

ManjiKengo

I can't wait until the RROD is a thing of the past; then I will finally buy one for all of the luscious RPGs that they are funding.

Dragon_Warrior

@KaliKOtt: From what I know the Falcon chipset is more or less stable.

There's a lot of factors for the RRoD. Though users should also remember not to place the console vertically (blocks the air passage) not put it inside an entertainment shelf (the exhaust air from the back can't get out). It it still due to crappy hardware I suppose.

@mind in rewind: Yup that is one of the "requirements" for a unit to be considered a Falcon one. That and the MFD should be after Oct 11, '07. As you said ht e 175w on the powerbrick and the HDMI port.

@dowingba:
Agreed! I've run through 2 now (zephyr board type). From my Famicom to my PS2, I've never had any hardware problems whatsoever. And that's something since I play long hours. Heck I even remember leaving my PS2 running because there's no save point yet and I had to go somewhere. I just get back to it after a couple of hours and everything's ok. I'm still a sucker for the 360 though. What can I say? It has most of the new games...

excaliburps

@karasu is my homeboy: No that's not silly or backwards. I've had a 360 since launch...well it's my third one, but you get the drift...and I seriously regret my purchase. This is perhaps the worst console I've ever owned. Scratch that, it's definitely the worst.

dowingba

that last paragraph is the greatest last paragraph ever written. and 100% true.

foxhound417

@excaliburps: No doubt the 360 has some totally bitchin' games. But when I look at all my favourite 360 games, the only exclusive that catches my eye is Ninja Gaiden 2. And considering I still play Ninja Gaiden Black on the Xbox quite regularly (note: on the Xbox, not the 360's dismal backwards compatibility) I probably could have lived without NG2.

dowingba

As I recall, there was never a recall. So, uhhh...what recall?

flashtut

The real reason is MS wanted to release the 360 early. Which they did, but only if they used a cheap graphics chip.

Orionsaint

boring? *sniff*sniff*snnnifffff*

...i smell spin, an awful scent to wear.

a disregard for gamers in favor of saving money. its not boring, its despicable.

evermourn

Satan? That would explain my dog murmuring in tongues...and the still life with crows...

Tietsu

@Heywoodjabloume: I love playing my Wii60. When my Wii died, I sent it back and didn't miss it while it was repaired. When my 360 RRoD's, M$ will cover it and I'll get a new system.

I don't really care how many times it dies as long as they offer free replacals. By the time my 3 year warranty expires, it'll be 2011 and the next-generation will be beginning.

rljohn

@Beatboxtaun: So that would mean you have 3 Xbox 360's? Are you one of those people who said the PS3 was too expensive?

@karasu is my homeboy: This was/is not a small problem, unless you mean small like, "it's just a small handheld nuclear device." or, more appropiately, "it's only $1,000,000,000."
A 33% failure rate for the first 2 years...16% faliure rate after the "repairs"? riiiighht.
whatever keeps you dreaming

You people make me ill. I wish I had a shoddily made piece of crap hardware, with really "cool" online service to sell you sheep! I see a lotta Rubes on here STILL defending M$...WTF is wrong with you people...Good games or not if someone sells me a lump of shit shined up all purdy, I sure as hell wouldn't keep eating it once I realize what it is!!!!
And I don't care about Sony, they're so lost right now it's pathetic.

Heywoodjabloume

I just did a google on Falcon RROD and I did find results of people getting RRODs on Falcon.

Also, according to some sites, and also the Xbox Technical Problems wiki page there's a 10% failure rate on the Falcon which is improved compared to the Xenon boxes

So still no 3RL/RROD solution i guess.

Cmon Microsoft, you want my money? you gotta fix The Red Rings

KaliKOtt

@rljohn: But, you realize the 360 has been around since 2005, right? Some of our 3 year warranties are going to run out before 2009.

dowingba

Common sense says there are more than 1 reason why it RRoDs. One major reason being that the 360 doesn't cool itself properly.

RaepGoblin

That's funny. It was actually a joint Microsoft-ATI venture from the get go:

[www.rllmukforum.com]

insane_cobra

@Heywoodjabloume: Dude.. The console has good games.. To me, it's all that matters! And i bet a lot of gamers think this way as well! Yeah, it was rushed, yeah it has problems, yeah they're being ironed out but it's still not there yet, yeah it'll probably never get there... But it's one hell of a games console with a great catalog of games! I have a Falcon and it never broke so I haven't experienced the RRoD and playing like I do (last GTA IV session was a straight 18hr long online session) I'm quite surprised it hasn't died on me yet! The new hardware revision coming this year (Jasper) will presumably end all of the heating problems!

henri1kk

Misinformed nonsense, sorry Kotaku.

kiigan

@TaggarT6: It was probably price related as to why they didnt use nvidia.Like anything else people ask what price a job can be done for and cheaper usually wins.
Dont think it would have made any difference to the consoles reliability as its the way it was all put together that was the problem,not the actual components,though of course the heat from these components did contribute to those problems.

UFO

Im kinda getting sick of hearing about RROD. The most people who bring it up and have a problem with it, for the most part don´t even own a XBox or even intend to because its a MS product.
I bet if it wasn´t MS this issue would have been forgotten a long time ago(see the DVD issue with 1.gen PS2 Hardware). But MS is held to a higher standard.
Lads, Ladies, Gamers! Forget wether its MS or Sony, just get witchever Console plays the games you like playing.
And to be honest the two console´s I have owned and used the most by far are the Dreamcast and the 360.
And I have been playing games since 1985 (I was 8) and I find that most of the people who I know who play a lot have a 360. The PS3 owners just don´t spend so much time in front of their machines. BTW: Ive never in 2 years even seen or heard of a Box RRODing, only on the Net. But I noticed the same with Sonys DVD issue. I only heard about it on the net.
Thats why I take these unofficial failure rates of 33% (sounds too perfect anyway) with a pinch of salt.

JonnyDee

I'm just curious what will happen after the extended warranty? Will you guys go out and buy a second SKU?

Garo

Tired of hearing the same old as well.

That whole fiasco on the rpg thread is like watching elementary kids complain over who got the last cookie.

When PS2 was getting all the exclusives you didn't see Xbox fans constantly whining about it.

Also, MS was forced to drop the Xbox as Nvidia would not make the graphics chip anymore, kind of hard to to continue to develop for a console without the gpu. Which I would imagine left bad blood between the two hence why they used ATI this time.

The ps2 to this day still has problems, the slim-lines have a nasty habit of overheating after a few hours of play and the dvd will start skipping.

And everyone has heard of the DRE, hell a google search pulls up a lot and there was even a class action lawsuit and Sony still denied it, blamed it on the user or the disk.

Even if MS had the most perfect console people would bitch just because it is MS.

I currently own a ps3 and a wii and plan to get the xbox360 in August when the redesign is coming out.

I was waiting for ninja gaiden 2 on whether I would buy one and I figured if a newer model comes out in a few months I can wait.

terminalx

@Neo-Senku: Not to flame, but that's exactly what Sony did with the PS3. Do you remember that stress test article from the start of the RRoD issue, where they ran the PS3 in a sauna for days at a time? Damn thing is unkillable. Of course, it was also far more expensive than the 360 and that crippled its launch.

Now that things are on a more even keel, the PS3 is playing catch-up. It's hard to say whose strategy was more effective, since we have no idea what that redesign and retooling production cost Microsoft behind the scenes. It will make for an interesting generation, considering how Microsoft is saying that the 360's life span will be longer than the last gen XBox, and Sony claims they can have a ten year life span for the PS3.

With the gaming industry seemingly recession-proof, the stakes are even higher than ever before. Dig in, folks. This could be the console war that you tell your grandchildren about.

LordMaim

Satan is scared of me, my 360 has been working find for 2 years although it was not a launch unit since it had the rrod twice traded it in for a new one off the shelf.

I sincerely hope that MS learned their lesson and not cheap on the design for the next version.

inajeep

I've always made it a policy of mine to never be a "hardware beta tester." I always wait before purchasing any of the new consoles. Frankly, I'm glad I waited. The issues with the 360 are enough to give me pause and keep me from buying one. Yes, there are a lot of games on it I'm curious about and a few I want to play, however, I am willing to wait. I'm patient. When the RROD thing seems to get better and the total cost (system + wireless connection + online) becomes more reasonable, I'll consider it.

Frankly, I don't think that forcing yourself to be "console exclusive" is a good idea. For myself though, I don't want to deal with a console that might burn out.

I don't know exactly when we got it into our heads that this was tolerable. It is not a good situation, allowing companies to behave in this manner. I don't want to deal with it, so I won't.

As for the rest of the current generation, I have a Wii. I am about to buy a PS3 since I've been patiently waiting for a new 80GB version that had a game included. When the 360 becomes more stable and meets my criteria, I'm sure I'll buy one then. Until then, though, I'm fine.

Marikir

You know, I really do think the RROD is in many cases just bullshit caused by a glitch from an overactive chip. The towel trick should NOT work if it was actual hardware failure

HikariOblivion

Hah... I -KNEW- it was the GPU's fault... now only if my 360 would RROD right now, since it's colors are messing up all 8-bit like and not getting a RROD ; 3;

Kaizuden

"The most people who bring it up and have a problem with it, for the most part don´t even own a XBox or even intend to because its a MS product. "

Bullshit.

Totorototoro

@karasu is my homeboy: Well, as I said in my post, most of the games I've been wanting to play on the 360 have made their way to the PC (my preferred platform), so that has mitigated the 360's attraction to me. So do I plunk down $400 for a machine with a small selection of exclusive games that I want to play, knowing that there's at least a 33% chance that it's going to die on me? Or do I wait until the system is both more reliable and less expensive, in the meantime playing plenty of games available on my current platforms? I don't see how this decision process is so difficult to understand. It's not just the 360; I wouldn't pay hundreds of dollars for any electronics product that I was pretty certain would cease to function and require replacement within months of its purchase.

AtomicPlayboy

@karasu is my homeboy: Actually waiting until MS fixes the issues IS a good reason to wait. What you people are doing is setting the precedent that it's perfectly fine to create a defective product and do nothing to fix it. Why? Because, check it out: People are still buying tons of said product even though they know it's totally broken!
If we gamers decided they have had enough and stopped REPEATEDLY buying the CrapBox360, Microsoft would sure as hell fix the damn thing and we could all be happy.

I totally want a Crapbox360, but I'm not giving MS my money and time, until they put out a non-defective product.

trigger2

mine rrod'd last week. its an elite, bought last september, with the extra heatsinks inside. didnt seem to make a difference did it.

i havent even sent it off yet. the fucking warranty people require me to find my own box, of the right size, and my own packing, to send it to them. my printable tickets have expired after their 10 days. they better give me a new set when i call back up WHEN I FIND A BOX or else im going to do something rash.

funnily, i havent missed the POS yet. my ancient modified xbox 1 has resumed its media streaming responsibilities with aplomb and im set. your halo 3's and what have you have just receded comfortably into memory.

red

Had my last rrod, got it repaired and gifted it.

Someone else's problem now.

gblock

@JonnyDee: I would say you should get used to hearing about RROD - hopefully the issue will go away when the new GPUs come out.

RROD is a non-issue for current 360 owners. Only fence sitters care about it.

Think about it. You get horror stories sometimes about people returning 360s multiple times. Replace the 360 with your car or TV, and it would either be exchanged for something else (not replaced), or you would get your money back. The hardcore NEED their 360s.

dbc

Uhm. Didn't we know about this as soon as soon as the first runs of these consoles started dying? I can't quote a source unfortunately. The two reasons I recall for the initial failure rates were as follows:

- Bad Power Supplies
- Power hungry, overheating ATI chips...

Why is this a surprise?

cable83

I had 4 of them. MY last finally broke due to a mechanical fault in the disk drive which I fixed and now I'm just resetting the spindle (next to impossible). I will say here however that I noted that just in idle with no game running, the 360 was super hot. I was shocked at how much heat the thing was putting out.
I can agree with the shoddy chip design but I can't think how it gets rid of all that heat when its closed up. I refuse to buy another one until this issue is cleared up as Microsoft has not helped my consumer confidence in any way. Thats Wooster the consumer talking not Wooster the avid videogamer. =)

WoosterB

I wonder why they didn't get nvidia to do thier GPU on the 360? That must be the reson why some regular xbox games don't work on the 360 quite well (yes GPU does matter when developing). it would have been even more awesomer to have them make something better then the ps3's RSX in the 360!

timeywimey

Everybody knows that Bill Gates' deal with Satan fell through, cos' Satan (and hell) was bought by EA in a deal worth 26.9 million.
Oh, and my 360's are running fine.

Numpty

It's interesting when you get the RROD.

Allen750

Aww, no wonder my Xbox 360 hasn't red ringed yet. (Knock on wood.) I'm christian so God protects me from satan.. :D

xinic5

@online.chaos:

he's right. one day my breaker/surge protecter was on the fritz so my 360 didnt have enough power to turn completely on. the result? the scariest four light's i've ever seen. whats happen's next isn't for the light of heart. As those blinding lights flashed before me the sound of a 1000 screaming demons echoed in my skull. fire rained and satan appeared through the memory card slot. he gazed upon me, and spoke in every language at once. I could not let this monster pass. I knew I had to save the world. In a split second, I assembled my Rockband drums. I rocked out in a blazing fury of double bass, rolls, and awesomeness. my sticks glowed with the lights of heaven as I played what will be known in history as "The most epic drum solo of all time.......forver". and that my friends is how I saved christmas.

HC-Heretic

;

Mausoleum

IM ON MY 3RD XBOX 360 BUT FRANKLY ITS SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE PS3 EVEN WITH THE HIGH RATE OF FAILURE. ID RATHER HAVE MY TOTALLY AWSOME SYSTEM DOWN FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS THAN MY AVERAGE CONSOLE AROUND ALL THE TIME

AchievmentSlave

@ManjiKengo: @ManjiKengo: I have a September '07 360 and it got a RROD in December. I had to wait til it got back the second week of January to enjoy my Christmas gift of Mass Effect.

BoringJob

The best strategy: Wait for the "word" on when it's fixed, buy your SKU of choice, buy used games at very reasonable prices on Amazon.com and Ebay, lock yourself up in your house for a week and enjoy.

Crabfeast

I have been having major issues with wireless adapters, I have bought and tried two and the machine can't even recognize that they are there. I am praying that it won't red ring on me. The tech support seemed to believe it was imminent (prepared system shipment). anyone else having wireless adapter issues?

n99y99r99

A - There was no RECALL
B - ATI did do the architecture for the chip

SmilingAssassin

Oh lord...
It doesn't help that the failure rate is high... Thats why I wont buy one until they FIX the problem... >>

derf1990

@Garo:Get them fixed. It's not difficult or expensive. Or yes, buy another.
Same as I did with PS2 (had 3, all broke!).

Numpty

The read rings aren't that horrible

I've had 2 consoles break within 3 years

Where as I've had 4 ps2's break within 5 years

Murderdolls