@Hansel: Guitar Hero 3 selling great is because it's Guitar Hero. And honestly, half of the people who play Guitar Hero have no idea what mono sound is or why they should care. High school students of both genders love guitar hero. Middle school students, etc. Guitar Hero fans are all over the place.

The problem with Wii is exactly what you're claiming doesn't exist: The games that are trying to be great don't sell unless they're by Nintendo. That's why Ubisoft went back on their strategy with the Wii 110%. That's why The Conduit is getting so much attention, and that's why Carnival Games is a best seller.

karasu is my homeboy

I think his sculptor/painter comparison makes little to no sense, but there is no reason for Epic to do Wii games. We know them all already.

karasu is my homeboy

@TheSpiller:

The Wii is the perfect definition of a gaming console. The PS3 is a multi media device with a blu ray capabilities atached on it.

I wouldn't say they are toys, unless manufactured with extreme poor quality.

PC's on the other hand are on a complete different level. Machines vs Consoles.

Paincake

Well Wii market is already huge, Capcom has made a lot of money there with Resident Evils, Zack & Wiki (which eventually turned out to be successful, and Activision's Guitar Hero 3 for Wii was a great success despite the fact that it had only mono sound.

There are almost 30 million Wii owners already, saying that there are no money to be made in that market is stupid. Great and well marketed games will always sell, doesn't matter what the platform is.

Then again I'm not sure if Epic has what it takes to make an excellent Wii game, unless of course they make it flashiest Wii game around and use it as selling point.

Hansel

@Donutta:

Intel motherboard chipsets have extremely bad integrated graphics chips. Intel is infact the one to blame. They are responsible for all the potential casual gamers who won't buy a indivisual graphics chip anyway.

Integrated graphics chips need to improve alot.

Mark Rein isn't some amateur. I'l trust his words over yours. Besides, his statements about Intel is fact. You can't argue against it.

UT99 and UT2k4 were,,, actually still are one of the best shooters on the market.

That said, I'm kinda disappointed how UT3 ended up.

Paincake

The reason stereoscopic games are both expensive *and* dumb is fairly obvious, if you think about it. After all, there's a lot of gamers on here... but how many people do any of you know who own a stereoscopic display?

Headlam

@dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased:

All gaming consoles are toys, really.

TheSpiller

He's totally right. There is no point whatsoever in Epic games on the Wii, and i would never expect them to go there. His sculptor/painter metaphor is dead on.

Sunjammer

@Donutta:

I think that works for them and personally i think thats great, sometimes its exactly what Im in the mood for.

But I guess what youre saying as that to you this sounds like hes saying "We totally could if we wanted to, we CHOOSE not to rock the shit out of the wii though"

The reality being it would probably be an epic fail if they tried, yeah? Basically its the right decision but hes applying dochebag-y reasoning to it.

MyLittlePwny

I'm not sure if this is off-topic or not, but reading this and a few other articles today kinda makes me wish for a 1980s Game Industry purge that could let us start over fresh with today's technology, kinda like how the NES swooped in after Atari went under.

riffleraffle

@steve86uk: The problem is not the "can't", it's the "won't".

Neo Deus

While I would like to see what they could make of the Wii, I'd much prefer they stick to what they know best.

Ryumeka

@Donutta:

I agree completely. Most games by Epic are pretty shallow endeavors, but there is sadly a market for it. It's the trend, especially with this generation of consoles. :(

But yeah, you can't really pretty things up a lot on the Wii. God forbid they focus on gameplay, but at the same time, I don't know why they should need to develop for the Wii. I still think the Wii is more of a toy than a gaming console... a toy that has some games on it, but a toy nonetheless.

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

@steve86uk: Yeah your right, if only ubisoft had the same state of mind

Chrinkster

@MyLittlePwny: @Donutta: Who needs substance when you have flash anyway? Cutting a guy in half with a chainsaw attached to a machine gun? Never gets old.

The Magnificen7

Good for them. I wish more developers would have the same idea, if we cant make a good game for the wii , we won't bother.

steve86uk

Epic burn!

Ehetyz

It's not like alot of 3rd party make a heap of money on sales on the wii. At the same time, Epic has been rehashing alot of the same old, been there, done that over the past few years.

I can see why they won't develop on the wii. Can you imagine and Unreal Wii? However would they make a character model with so many wrinkle lines on their face, it'd look like stretched jerky.

Jechticknight

@MyLittlePwny: Oh, of course it is. I just don't like Rein's argument. Never have. It's like how he once said that Intel was killing PC gaming. He's like that sinister man who sits on the corner tempting kids with candy that looks great, but eventually leads to a feeling of violation. The fact of the matter is, if you read between the lines, Epic can't make a good game that doesn't rely on the "OMG ZEE GRAPHICS!" Even in retrospect, Gears of War was a hollow experience. And I say that as someone who was admittedly sucked in by the graphics and gave it a 9.4 (when it should have been about a 7.5).

Donutta

Yeah I went there!

MyLittlePwny

@Donutta:

Yeah its not like not the Wii is flooded with games that are all flash and no substance or anything.

MyLittlePwny

Graphics whores!
:D

TheSpiller

Dont think they're missing out on heaps of money unless it's Unreal Super Smash Bros theyd be making.

MyLittlePwny

Read: We make pretty looking games that are all flash and no substance.

Yes, I went there.

Donutta

No really why should they?

Garo

As much as I respect a developers decision on what platforms they do and do not develop on, I find Rein's elitist attitude rather offensive. Especially seeing their last game, UT3, was nothing they should have ben proud of. They've already stuck two fingers up at PC gamers when they released that heap of shit. Not a wise move.

Xandros

@Paincake:

Usually I don't like to link to stuff off-site, but in this case I said it here and I can't be bothered saying it again:

Linkified

Donutta

The problem has long been in the 3rd parties' court. Make a good game (not a cash-in), advertise it, and watch as you gain fans and support.

The other problem is that a lot of 3rd parties aren't looking at what they have before them and thinking about it properly. I really do feel that the Wii has the potential to bring the most innovative gaming to this generation, but it just hasn't been tapped into yet. We've had tastes of it here and there, but it sometimes seems only Nintendo is trying to approach the issue from multiple angles while everyone else is standing around acting dumb.

phinehas

@Paincake:
I agree with what your saying. My point was in response to dunetiger, that all 3 consoles are essentially built for the same purpose, and just because games like gears of war arent available on the wii it doesnt make the other 2 less of a "toy".

I really need to work on explaining myself better!

TheSpiller

Ha, I can always tell without looking at the author whether or not it's a post by Ashcraft - love it!

phinehas

@Donutta: How is that not what he's saying? Seriousley, you'd have to have some overprotective state of mind with the Wii to take what he said any other way. How is, "That's just not our medium. That's not our area of expertise" any different from what I paraphrased? They're saying they like pushing technology so... The Wii really isn't... what they do, "... things that push technology higher. That's what we do..."

I'm just copy pasting their words now.

Garro

The point is he knows where his target-group is and this is the only reason why he is not interested in the Wii.

Garo

@Garro: Actually, I think they're staying away from the Wii mostly BECAUSE of it's lack of graphical quality. Epic like-a-da-technical stuff, and that's why they choose to work elsewhere.

As long as he isn't bashing the Wii or acting elitist, I don't mind their position. Some companies prefer certain areas of gaming better than others and that's all right. It takes all types.

phinehas

@Donutta: Okay but still, what does your preference have anything to do with the validity of his point? Even if you think what they try to do is shit, that doesn't change the fact that what they try to do (and I suppose, what I think they've accomplished) just doesn't really belong on the Wii. Your original post sounded like you thought he was saying "the Wii couldn't support our games graphics, wich is the cruch we rest on." Correct me if I'm wrong, but if that's true then BS. Plenty of people enjoy the gameplay and I could list a number of reasons why it isn't just shallow nonsense that looks pretty.

Garro

@Garro: It isn't elitist to say, "the games we make are not in line with what the console does, and it's lineup."

Except that's not what he's saying at all.

Donutta

Good, they can stick to making crappy console ports and forgettable shooters. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Nutlink

@Xandros: (sorry for the double post) How is this offensive? How is this in any way offending you? It isn't elitist to say, "the games we make are not in line with what the console does, and it's lineup." That's offensive? Facts are hurting feelings now? I mean, I don't think anyone's gonna get bent out of shape if Nintendo says, "Wii sports just doesn't belong on the 360, it just doesn't synch up." No one in their right mind would take that personally. Sure, you could probably port Gears of War or Unreal Tournament to the Wii, but to what end and for what reason?

Garro

@Garro: Actually, I was a fan of multiplayer shooters once. Same way I was a fan of fighting games back in 1992, before the glut of things like G.A.S.P. However, as an adult I find I have little time for competitive play.

But that's not my point. It has nothing to do with shooters. My point is -- and lord knows gamers always harp on about it -- gameplay should come waaaaaaaay before graphics. I don't think Epic has delivered in the gameplay department for quite a while. That's why I'm looking forward to Mega Man 9 more than Gears of War 2.

Donutta

Uh-oh, no one here mention Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simoni to Mark Rein or his head just might explode from all the gobbledegook.

Meh, his choice but Epic is clearly not versatile in the games industry.

humongous_mouse

What, motion control isn't pushing technology higher? Is it just me or do developers like this come off as arrogant? Sometimes I dream of the days when the main attraction of a videogame was how fun it was to play, not how accurately the lighting is rendered and how many objects you can stack up on eachother and then watch them fall with perfectly calculated physics.

Recoil

@Donutta: It sounds like you're just looking for an execuse to rip on Epic. What does the quality of their games have anything to do with the point he made? Seriousley, he's just saying Wii games aren't what they do... Not because the Wii lacks any graphical capability, but because their games aren't in line with the Wii's appeal.

We can argue the quality of their games up and down, but even if I say Gears of War was a low quality game that "lacked substance," that doesn't change the fact that third person military shooters and arena gladiator matches don't really belong on the Wii, at all. There's absolutely nothing wrong or insulting about the fact. Everything has it's place, and his point is completely valid.

Now anyway, as for "all flash and no content," I'd hazard a guess you aren't a big fan of multiplayer shooters. Gears had an innovative experience online, one that no game (that I've personally played) has come close to recreating. Honstly, I can't name one title that recreates the feeling of being in a cinematic firefight while still requiring lots of teamwork and a touch of tactics(if you ignore the shotgun abusers, that is).

Garro

I'm a bit burned out on these rhetorical questions about whether or not a developer will make a Wii game. The history of a developer should give you an adequate answer. Epic has a long history of putting their priority on pushing technology.

Unfortunately, prioritizing technology isn't a healthy approach late in the life of a console. Squeeze an orange as much as you want, but there is a limit to how much juice you can extract. Games that are successful late in the lifecycle of a console must rely on fresh ideas that are carefully executed.

Velops

That JPEG is named Reinsak.jpg, not Nothanks.jpg!

Lies!

Scuba Steve

I see little reason why they should expand their focus to encompass an inferior video game system.

Chase

Gears of War party games? Now there's a scary thought. Although, it would be entertaining to see a set of party games get an M rating for blood and language though.

Maybe one of the games could be cutting the most Locust in half with your lancer.

Salen

@PixelRambo: I think people DO hate on Nintendo for not doing more mature games - but you're right. These guys just made a decision to stick with the consoles that push graphics/technology. Nothing wrong with that, I say (long as they don't bash the Wii or act elitist).

phinehas

Wow, this articles REALLY bringing out the fanboy crowd :)
More drama, More conflict I LOVE IT!!!!

MightyKAC

@Donutta: Now whose being elitest? :D Seriousley though, happy to argue with you, come again any time...?

We're just interpresting his words differently. I'm taking them at face value (read: not butt hurt about a non-console, *chortle*), and you're gleaning some ridiculous imaginary subtext because you have something against Mark Reign... apparently.

You'd make a GREAT conspiracy theorist.

Garro

"Gears of Wii" would be an instant hit though ;)

JakeDunn

@Garro: I'm only going to reiterate this one more time as it's like talking to a brick wall.

"[O]ur area of expertise is the more high-end consoles and things that push technology higher."

Read: We need to make things look pretty.

He's not talking about being shooter-centric and how shooters don't fit on the Wii (which is total BS anyway, even if you did want to pursue that argument). What he's saying is he wouldn't want to put a game on the Wii because he wouldn't be able to make it look pretty and thus most people wouldn't be stunned by the graphics and would finally see Epic's games for the shallow titles they are.

Donutta

What Mark Rein is really saying is: They're not interested in breaking out their old PS2 dev kits again. Because they wouldn't "push technology" on the Wii any further than any other third party dev. Except maybe Factor 5.

BtownDesignGuy

I am amazed how much people rag on him when he is just admitting that his company's strategy isn't in line with the Wii. Are you just mad he won't play with your Wii(yes, I went there)? Their strengths lie with games that aren't exactly a popular genre on the Wii, just as Miyamoto sees no reason to do a shooter as it doesn't play to his strengths.

Why aren't people hating on Nintendo for not doing gritty, mature, hentai games?

PixelRambo

The only Epic game that I think would be suitable for Wii(Ware) is Jazz Jackrabbit.

Bluetribal

Why doesn't nintendo make games for xbox 360?!?! there's obviously a market there!

yes... I... went there?

seriously, where the hell am i?

James, just James

@Garro: You know what I mean, and you're likely one of the crowd that I'm talking about. I couldn't care less about if Epic decides not to make games for the Wii because they just don't feel like they want to or can do, like I said I have no problem with those decisions. But when they start saying crap like "our area of expertise is the more high-end consoles and things that push technology higher" that is elitist.

It's just as offensive as when I see Xbox 360 & PS3 fanboys ranting on about how shit the Wii graphics are and that this that and the other game wouldn't be any good on it because "the console isn't powerfull enough" or "it doesn't cut it as far as a next gen system goes" or "the game wouldn't fit because it is supposed to have good graphics", spare me the elitist bullshit. It's a fucking game's console for fucking entertainment, if you're going to make a game and the first thing you plan is how great the graphics are that just says to me you're not even going to bother giving Gameplay a look in.

And look how many shit games come out these days that are all about th egraphics and completely lack any real game play. That is why I citied UT3 as being pure shit in case you didn't notice. The dying shame of it all is, only idiots with very short attention spans buy all this shovelware, and since a lot of these games seem to still sell like hot shit even though they're clearly just plain old shit, it indicates to me the average "next gen" console gamer is a fucking ratard that'll buy any old rubbish.

THAT'S what I find offensive about his attitude. The whole underlying reasoning behind it all... Let's make a fantastic looking game with crap graphics and stick it on the "best" consoles. All the fucktards will buy it and we'll make a mint. Fuck the Wii, that's too simple. Oh and fuck the PC, people with them have too much sense and won't buy the games. But we can release on it anyway and when it sells like crap we'll blame piracy - perfect excuse never to release anything on the PC ever again."

Xandros

Eh, epic thinks too highly of themselves. That said, I think its totally understandable for epic to not develop on the wii...

not because there's no market, we all know there's a huge market, but just because that is not the direction they want to take their games. Epic is all about doing more and bigger with their games, notably so w/ graphics...

Even though the wii has a huge install base, that doesn't mean that epic's games would market well to that audience. After all, there aren't THAT many casual gamers that would really get into curb stomping their opponents.

James, just James

@Epic: Keep your Unreal games off my Wii please, Cheers guys.

"our area of expertise is the more high-end consoles and things that push technology higher." How's about making a good game then? If this technology was making your games more fun to play, then I wouldn't be bothered. I didn't like any Unreal game since the first tournament and everything else since (all Epic game) have been, in my opinion, sub standard. Yes, even Gears.

furiku

Sounds to me like they just aren't ready to eat their serving a crow yet.

Of course, his statment begs the question, what is he going to do for money when the high cost and low instal base of the high end consoles takes it's toll on his "well?"

EmeraldDragon

Gears of War being as popular as it is, and as liked as it is, and as big of a seller as it was paints a painfully clear picture on the current state of the industry, the state of current game availability, the current status of how complacement and easily pleased the average gamer is, how poor of a developer Epic is when it comes to single player content, and the very sad state of the XBOX 360 userbase.

You can think GoW is a grand game all you want, that's perogitive. Whatever.

I'm going to think you're an easily pleased baby who's satisifed with violence and explosion porn, hates stories, and just wants to see a bunch of stuff blow up while you try your absolute best not to drool on yourself and have your helmet fall off.

Okay, maybe that's a bit extreme, and unfair to actually mentally handicapped people. (I'm sure they have taste too, afterall).

But whatever. GoW was a storyless piece of crap. An unvaried piece of crap. A shallow piece of crap. A piece of crap with terrible, shallow characters. All it was, was a one trick pony of violence, with no variation from the norm at all.

All it had going for it was graphics, and the general consumer's stupidity, the general reviewer's love of graphics and multiplayer at any cost, and Microsoft's endless pennybags.

Which comes to my next point -- GoW on any other system would have been an absolutely abysmal failure.

otimus

@Xandros: I'm one of the last people to judge a console purely on graphics. I really don't care, I just go where the games I enjoy are. I'm not here to preach about how superior anything is over anything.

I don't get why this is such a volatile issue for you. The bare cold facts of it is, the Wii isn't as strong a machine as the 360 or PS3. Is there anything wrong with that? No, not inhernently. If you're trying to push the console market to it's limit, then you're not going to develop for a weaker machine... It's just that simple and you (along with the other Nintendo fans here) are the only ones putting any emotional spin on it one way or another.

I can not believe how personaly you've taken what's been said. I'm honestly a little stumped that this whole "issue" has caused you to resort to unintellagible remarks and baseless insults. Seriousley, I think the problem here is that you're overly defensive about a friggan' cosole. That whole tirade proves you're not one to interpret something like, "we go where the better hardware is for our games," for the simple and ultimately meaningless comment that it was.

Garro

Dunno about you guys but I thought Gears of War was pretty awesome. I guess I like shallow then. Cant wait for part 2.

Friscodude

@Xandros: I don't think he's "trying" to be elitist, though I guess I can see at the same time why you're taking it that way. But I think these days for a game to really stick out (on any platform) you have 4 options, 1) you can be REALLY innovative, 2) you can impress with newer and better technology, 3) you can expand off of some well known IP, 4) some combination of the previous 3.

I think epic has made their decision and they are focusing towards more technology, which the wii just does not fit in line with. technology wise, the wii does not offer anything new for this company, and unfortunately, I don't think they have the talent, or the desire to really innovate gameplay, nor do they have a viable audience on the wii in order to really make use of one of their popular IPs.

James, just James

"That's like asking a sculptor when he's going to start painting."

No. It's more like a sculptor who thinks his sculptures are far too good to be displayed in inferior exhibits so he only puts it in places where elitists like himself are allowed to view it and chortle about stuff like the quality of clay used and how shiny the marble mount is.

marmidukestank

I'm not surprised in the least with Epic's decision. If it had to make games for the Wii with a chance of selling, it'd probably have to go back to its days of the mid-'90s, what with Epic Pinball, Jazz Jackrabbit and all those kiddy-like games.

StupidDufus

The thing I'm most tired of this generation is folks treating their consoles like hallowed ground. Yeah, I remember these arguments back in kindergarten about the merits of the sega master system vs the nes. It sort of depresses the hell out of me to see how many people still hold this mentality and see it as a personal insult when someone chooses a different inanimate object as their personal savior.

Guild_Navigator

Why the hell should they develop for the Wii. They specialize in the high-end, cutting edge market. I'm a Wii fan, but not everything needs to come to the Wii. There does need to be a company or two out there pushing the high-end platforms to their max.

I'm not dumb enough to say, "I wouldn't want to see a game like Gears on the Wii.". That sort of talk is just lame. But I wouldn't want a company like Epic to slow down progress on a Gears (couldn't care less about another UT3) in order to make another version for the Wii.

Just get fools like Ubisoft and others to do a decent Wii version of their games. Even if it is a freaking Nintendogs ripoff.

cirej2000

@otimus:

"I'm going to think you're an easily pleased baby who's satisifed with violence and explosion porn, hates stories, and just wants to see a bunch of stuff blow up while you try your absolute best not to drool on yourself and have your helmet fall off."

Ouch, really.

I'm going to think you're a snob who hates mindless fun just because it's mindless. Do bad Garro already beat me to it. But you know what I *really* hate about your comment?

You hate variety.

I really don't care for your comments on Gears or opinions on games similar to it. Fact is, you hate those games so much that you set other people who enjoy them beneath you in terms of intellect and taste.

Are you...that pathetic?

Rohit_N

@Xandros: "only idiots with very short attention spans buy all this shovelware"

You know how fucking flawed that arguement is? I could say people who buy mario games are stupid because they're purchasing the same fucking game they purchased back in 1998 for the N64 - (No, you run around planetoids now and have different forms and [additional half-baked gimmik]!) But you know what, I'd sound like a retard to other wii owners. Well that's how you sound, chief. I happen to be one of the 'idiots with short attention spans' who bought Gears' and you sir, are a moron. Sure the story was fairly shallow, but seriously, name me a nintendo game that's story isn't.

Oh wait, but you're complaining about gameplay. Well let's examine that for a second, shall we? Gears of War streamlined the console 3rd person shooter to a fluid, fast paced yet tactical team game. The cover system is simple and practical, you actually have prolonged firefights, and people (who win) working as a team. And I've been playing console shooters since N64 Golden Eye, so yes, I have some experience with shooter gameplay.

I want to know what the hell is in the wii fanboy's water that makes them so fucking defensive about their semi-console. Shit I could care less when Sony and Nintendo make passive aggressive remarks about the 360 - I'm too busy playing it. Oh, and before you go there, I own a wii - picked it up with Brawl (which I admit, although shallow, is incredibly fun - haven't played it as much as Gears though...)

Typhus

@Garro: They probably take their comments seriously because they want to appear "cultured" or "experienced" in the games industry for those precious Kotaku cred points.

A developer isn't working on the Wii? "oh noez, ur not willing to push gaeming forward bcuz all teh next-gen consoles are about graffix so that's all u care about HELLO BROWNZ & GRAYZ & BLOOM TEH INDUSTRY IS DEAD."

Rohit_N

@otimus: I love Gears of War and Dan Abnett. I'm like a mutant then eh? Ghost in the Shell was really all about Motoko's tits anyways...

I totally agree. Gears of war had no story, no character depth, and the single player campaign was only good for interesting enviornments.

Okay now let's pause a moment... Multilayer! I think that accomplshed a lot more then people give credit for.

Let's not all forget that games are about ENJOYMENT people. The minute we forget that media should be enjoyed... then, well, we come snobs. I'm calling you snobbish. I wonder how far upturned your nose can get... Gears ain't no saint of storytelling or much else, but just because people have fun with it doesn't mean they're retards.

Hey, I think I shoudl copy paste your post into a Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3 article. My feelings are about the same, but I don't spout off about it like my shit don't stink.

Garro

Im still bitter over how they screwed up Unreal 3 so I'll insert a generic yousuck.jpg comment here.

Para

@Garro: Blizzard heard that. Expect 3 men in black suits to show up at your door in 3...2....1...

James, just James

@Garro: Definately agree on that Blizzard part, hoo boy.

otimus

@otimus: Holy crap, you're saying enjoying Gears of War is like throwing rocks at cars or hurting yourself???

The phsyical actions you take are just standard shooter affair, but it really shines when you play multiplayer. Tell me there's another game out there that makes you feel like you're participating in a badass gritty scifi war flick. You get tactics, and action. It's a beautiful thing.

Even if I agreed that the gameplay was as bad as you say it is, I'd still take up the same position. Gears just isn't hurting anythin. It hasn't negatively influenced a single thing in the game industrey. Blizzard, now that's a different story.

Garro

If you buy a game console for any reason other than to provide you hours of fun and pleasure (re: TOY), then you're completely missing the point. Wii is no more a "toy" than any other video game console.

Poochy

@otimus: Moreover, I'd like to point out that I'm not defending the Wii, Nintendo, or anything like that. I'm just insulting Gears because it was brought up.

otimus

@dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased: Game consoles ARE toys, fool.

Poochy

@Garro:
Of course it's enjoyable! That doesn't make it okay! Pong is enjoyable. Throwing rocks at cars is probably enjoyable. Running in a circle and slapping yourself.. may be enjoyable.

Moreover, I don't hate action games, I don't hate violent games. I hate unvaried simple shallow games.. Which is what Gears was. If it's gameplay had variety.. if it had some MEAT to it, then I'd have no problem with it, at all. Then it'd be worth playing! As is.. it doesn't.. and quite a deals worth of people are satisifed with that, and hold up the bare minimum as some sort of benchmark. People are easily pleased, and it's getting very bad!

otimus

@marmidukestank: QUICK! The bandwagon is passing by... JUMP NOW!

James, just James

@Guild_Navigator: people haven't changed much, eh? remember the good ol' days when people would argue about this golden calf being better than that golden calf?

James, just James

@Typhus: lol, well played sir. well played.

James, just James

@Jedi924: Hey if you're going to start bringing up valid points, we're just not going to play with you anymore!

James, just James

"That's like asking a sculptor when he's going to start painting"

You mean like Michelangelo? Cause he turned out to paint pretty good for a sculptor.

Jedi924

LOL, I knew this would be nothing but a thread of butt-hurt. Mark Rein thinks the Wii is technically inferior. News flash!!! It is. Who cares if he doesn't want to make games on the Wii?

Some of you act like he only means they want the graphics of their game to look good. How do you know he meant that? He could have meant AI capabilites, or size of the game world(NMH was tragically small in game-world size). But, even if graphics are what he was talking about, why does it bother you? If Epic pride themselves on the graphics they produce for their games, then so be it. Nothing wrong with being proud of what you do. Also nothing wrong with saying "what you do" could not be done on out-dated tech.
Yes, I have a wii, but I know it's inferior in many ways to the other 2 consoles and PC. No hang-ups about it, and a guy pointing out the obvious is not going to hurt my feelings. This is already approaching "tl:dr" territory, or I would also address how their games supposedly aren't about gameplay too, according to some on this article

I_Hate_This_Place

@Garo: Not at my school. I got a lot of shit for talking about any game on the master system.

Guild_Navigator

@Lijik:
That being said, I have no qualms with Epic if all they want to do is make good looking rehash games. I just wish they would flat out say that instead of using awful analogies and poorly worded reasons.

Lijik

Push technology higher?
Newsflash Rein, theres a wiimote you can use.

Make a remake of Dare to Dream and push the wiimote functions beyond basic waggle. Give us a new version of Jill of the Jungle or Jazz Jackrabbit. Epic Pinball with Wii controls, this sounds really lame but you can push the technology and make it awesome.

Of course this is the company that did nothing but Unreal games for almost a decade. I guess creativity isn't really part of their job (although the Gears franchise is pretty awesome despite half of the characters looking like UT rejects).

Lijik

besides what everyone has said about the shallowness of their games; I just don't like his smug demeanor and poor PR skills.

jp182

@Guild_Navigator:
Well I was in school (sigh so long ago ;)) my best friend had a NES and I had a Master System. But we weren't bitching and bragging. We exchanged the consoles on regular basis so he could play Phantasy Star, Shinobi and Zillion, and I could enjoy Zelda, Metroid and Metal Gear. There was no console-war mentality like today.

Garo

What is up with all the Gears of War hate? Sure it's a 3rd person shooter, but it did have some innovative features. The duck and cover system separates it from the standard fps game. The AI was also more complex than your standard fps. The game was definitely short and somewhat repetitive, but no more than any other game.

I own a Wii and all of the "good" games. Metroid/ssbm/mk/zelda/galaxy etc. Which of these games are so innovative??? MK hasnt changed much since SNES days, Zelda since Ocarina days, Galaxy is mario 64 on a sphere and ssbm is basically the same as the gc game (network play is a nice plus tho)

Maybe it's the "advanced" analog control scheme... Only Metriod works halfway decent with the wiimote and even so its not all that entertaining. Due to the controllers inaccuracies, most games boil down to this simple equation:

Shake left and right = A Button
Shake up and down = B Button
Thrust forward and back = Y Button
Maybe Slash at an angle = X Button

I wanted to like my Wii, I really did. As soon as I heard about Dragon Quest Swords, I had to have one. Too bad for me that DQ:Swords is an elementary RPG with inaccurate controls, pitiful graphics, and using the dpad to walk around the world was absolutely HORRID!

beefmonkey

lol the Wii can't handle obscenely massive characters with oversized armor!

fenderfuel08

I guess that's why the Pope ask Michelangelo to paint, because sculptors are not good at making a painting.

DarkprinceArmon

Yay, yet another console bashing fanboy fest.

Anyway, I dont see anything elitist in his comments, fact is the wii is 10 year old tech and epic games are shiny. Thats life and honestly, people should deal with it.

For those saying that epic should worry about gameplay and length over shinyness, can you honestly say that with a straight face and be a nintendo fanboy? seriously, no console has more baseless short term shovelware than the wii. Im actually embarrased to own a wii as its provided no entertainment in over 6 months.(I have all of the socalled major titles, but only galaxy is worth a damn and I finished that with 100% completion in less than a week. Appx the same amount of time it took me to clear gears) The wii is the king of crap titles and that should never be questioned.

Additionally, why should epic make games for the wii? They have thier market with the PC, 360, and PS3. All are pretty easy for them to port across the platforms due to similar strengths. However, they would have to downgrade thier games to put them on the wii. Or be forced to create unique IP just for the console done with 10 year old graphics, which again, doesnt suite the style of epic.(which is what he has said here) Rather, they should be focused on the markets that converge as opposed to the market of happy go lucky nintendo fanboys which is supplimented by old ladies and little kids who just want a quick fix of wii sports.(as shown through sales figures of software and attach rates.)

RuneX21

Shame.

They could really push the power of the Wii.

Willy105

@RuneX21:

I found it funny that you started your rant with "yet another console bashing fanboy fest."

And then ended your rant with "they should be focused on the markets that converge as opposed to the market of happy go lucky nintendo fanboys which is supplimented by old ladies and little kids who just want a quick fix of wii sports."

It's hilarious.

NeoAkira

Lately Epics art direction(not technical quality) has taken a turn for the worse and they've been mouthing off a lot in media... And all this GOW nonsense... I'm not sure I like them anymore. :/

Yin

@MajorMcMuffin: No, it's like asking a rich sculptor making shitloads of money sculpting stuff when he's going take up painting and decorating.

hahnchen

@RuneX21: I couldn't agree more. I am also embarrassed to have purchased a Wii at launch and to still own it for the past year or so. The only time I ever use the thing is when I have my weekly SSBB get together with 3 of my other friends. SSBB is the only game I own along with SMG. I am almost to the point where I want to just trade it in to buy more games for my DS *sigh*

As for Rein's comments.......I could sympathize with him. All the best developers are making their best games on the other 2 consoles and its pretty obvious why that is. And if thats the case, then the Wii's long-term viability is as good as dead.

@NeoAkira: Yeah that comment was kinda halarious but its also true what he said so I don't see what your point is.........

LeLoi

"That's like asking a sculptor when he's going to start painting. That's just not our medium."

Michaelangelo saw himself as a sculptor, but he painted the Sistine Chapel. Maybe it's like asking a poor sculptor when he's going to start painting.
I love deflating silly statements.

MajorMcMuffin

In other news, Ferrari STILL not interested in making hatchbacks.

@Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc:It's about cross platform. You can build a shooter for the 360 and port it to the PC and PS3. You build a shooter for the Wii, and it stays there. Last gen graphics, totally different control mechanism, and shitty multiplayer.

With the prevalence of Unreal Engine 3, Epic are spending their time ensuring that they stay a big fish in a big pond.

hahnchen

Red Steel was a million seller in an uncrowded launch marketplace, the install base is way larger than it was then, and the marketplace of shooters is still very sparse. (RS, COD3, MOHH2... and that's it?) There being a lock of good games isn't a reason to avoid the Wii, it's a reason to embrace the Wii. Epic (and pretty much every other developer) is passing up a chance to be the big fish in a small pond.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

As much as i love Epic, Mark Rein is proving himself to be a moron in bad need of a muzzle when talking about...well ANYTHING. Let Cliff (yB? ster? Blezynkski?) be the spokesperson, because even sounding like a hardcore geek and burnout surfer dude, Cliffy is a very intelligent guy and doesn't deface Epic everytime he speaks to the press like Rein does.

Yeah AVATAR is going to be nothing short of amazing...that's my prediction. And Rein will eat his words. I SAID EAT THEM! :P

Archmagnus

@LeLoi:

Well it's kind of funny that he said they should focus on the PS3 (which I'm not arguing with) over the Wii and he used the Wii sales figures as the basis for such. When *gasp* the PS3 actually has a lower attach rate than the Wii. So it was actually a hole in his argument. And while he did make some good points he also made a lot of fanboy comments within his post. So it was a big dose of irony reading his comment.

NeoAkira

With the strides they've been taking with the newest technology, I'm happy that they've resisted making a quick buck on the Wii.

Also, enough with the Michelangelo references. We get it, har har har, but you know damned well what he meant by that statement.

Wolfers

@dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased:

A TOY????

Ok yeah the wii isn't the best graphically but check out this tech demo of a games engine by high voltage.

+ Watch video

leeallens

@MajorMcMuffin: Maybe there are exceptions? >.>

He was making a point and I'm glad that Epic is focusing on high-end gaming. I'm not in the market for "Gears of War party games."

mfwahwah

@hahnchen: But being a big fish in a big pond isn't nearly as useful, as you have to compete with all the other big fish.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

@RuneX21:

seriously, no console has more baseless short term shovelware than the wii.

Sure there is, it's called the PS2. Ever heard of it?

EmeraldDragon

I have just gained more respect for epic, its refreshing to see when a developer knows what it is good at and sticks to it. In a world where both microsoft and ps3 are trying to dip their toes in the Wii's pond i am glad that not every one are greedy bastards that will produce any old crap just to 'enter' a new market.

BR4DL3I9H

This is yet another reason why I want to work for epic.

RazorandBlade

I think Epic's more on the graphics side of the spectrum development wise. Not that there's anything wrong with that really. Fun and graphics do go hand in hand.

Or it could be a ruse! Gears for the Wii with waggle! Yeah! Waggle that Cole-Train!

excaliburps

Epic aren't artists or game designers as much as they are technicians. Technology is what excites them, that's what they want to tinker with. Just look at the original Unreal. What crap it was, but it looked good. The whole development pursuit was the engine, not a game. And I always thought the UT series was vastly and unplayably inferior to Quake (2 and 3) in mechanics and balance, level and weapon design, solidness of controls, etc.

Blizzard, to take one example, is almost the complete opposite of Epic: their graphical support (resolutions, etc) and network compatibility is always way behind the standard set by Id Software. But their art direction is infinitely less bland than Epic's.

The cover system-- and especially the running-- in GoW was great. But the game itself would have been more impressive if I hadn't already played through the original Unreal ten years ago. At some point during GoW I suddenly had this revelation like I fully and completely understood the entirety of the gaming vision that Cliff Bleszinski ever had and will ever have. I still like him as a figure though.

Nintendo rehashes their IP too, but I actually like it when they do. That's just me though.

Torgen: "Epic (and pretty much every other developer) is passing up a chance to be the big fish in a small pond."

Epic can't fit in a pond. They want to re- and re-invent huge fast gun-laden boats and submarines. Nintendo on the other hand re-invents the elegance and cuteness of the common tadpole and frog.

OhSoDelish

@hahnchen: Good point.

Although I would rather play a stripped-down grahics version of their Unreal Games on Wii than a good looking version on PS360.

I liked Unreal on PC, but not on PS2. I thought GoW was pretty good though, but not as much as Metroid Prime Hunters in multiplayer.

griffinrider

You know, developers are finally taking Wii development more seriously and making less party games (Ubisoft excluded).

M

@MyLittlePwny:

its not, it's full of games that are no flash and no substance for the most part.

Beximus

@humongous_mouse: Why is mandatory for them to be "versatile in the games industry"?

I remember when Unreal first came out. Behind the counter, we routinely informed customers that it was highly probable they didn't have the system specs to run it.

Every now and then; someone buying it DID have the system specs and they received a collective "Ooooooooooo" from all the guys working at EB at the time.

The developed a game that only a very small percentage of the customer base could play but it certainly pushed the boundaries regarding graphics. It seemed to work out alright for them so why change up what they're known for? Graphic intensive games.

Yes, your Wii is a success. Yes, people are playing it. Yay!

Why is it that the Wii fan boys can't just be satisfied with the fact that the Wii (although an aberration) is an overwhelming success? Why is it wrong to face facts and admit that the Wii isn't exactly a processing powerhouse?

EndersGame

Well... we don't want him to make games for the wii. Seriously, I'm very much sick of the game industry just cloning Doom over and over again with better graphic and new guns.

Xbox360 and PS3 don't push technology, they just go with the flow. Nintendo has pushed technology by changing the way we play games.

graddy

I'm a fan of Epic, and a big fan of the Unreal Tournament games, but Mark Rein's stubborness frankly makes me sick. Like asking a sculptor when to paint? What a poorly-constructed analogy; you can just as easily make a "hardcore", big-budget videogame on the Wii as you can on the 360 and PS3. Sure, the Wii doesn't have as much horsepower, but it does provide enough for a damn good game. You'd be amazed at what you can achieve if you actually work on it.

I think this is another case in the whole "Graphics over Gameplay" issue, where people are convincing themselves, both gamers and developers, that graphics ARE what make a game, not the gameplay. As for me, I'd rather play Unreal Tournament on the Wii with a Wiimote and Nunchuk than on the 360 with dual-analoge sticks, because FPS controls have so far proven to be much better on the Wii thus far.

I hope one day that Mark will admit he's wrong about the Wii, and Epic will go the way of High Voltage Software, making genuine games for the Wii that gamers actually want. Until then, he's really disappointed me, and probably many others.

MeleeKirby

@EndersGame: You're asking why people want more games to play on their game machine?

JokesJokes

Ths guy is such a sculpting fanboy it sickens me... :)
Forr the serious, I don't relly care what he thinks. Gears is a great game, too many people lov it for this not to be so, even if it isn't my thing. As for the whole "shallow" v. "deep" argument...whatever. How do you calculate that and who cares? If the game's fun, play it. If it's not, don't.
On a completely unrelated note, Euilibrium is one of the best sci-fi shoot em ups ever and beats the pants off of Wanted (which was dissappointing) in my opinion.

JokesJokes

Oh no, looks like Wii owners won't get to play Unreal Tournament for the millionth time in 8 years.

Roto13

@Donutta: why do you keep saying that Epic's games are shallow? They're no more shallow than most games and you can't say that the gameplay of many of their games is quite good. Why else would people still play GeoW?

ifalldownstairs

EPIC has always thought BIG! They always push their graphics technology. Why would they wanna limit themselves by making a game on the Wii? What's basically last gen hardware.

Orionsaint

@Donutta: You said you originally gave gears a 9.4 but now you would say 7.5. I have to ask when your mind was changed was it after beating the game or in a couple of months retrospect. I personally still think it is an excellent game and I admit the story line is not that great but lets be fair was the story in Smash Brothers Brawl or Mario Galaxy earth shatteringly good, well in my opinionno. My opinion is those games were fun even if they didn't have a story that tried to be overly complex and deep like games like MGS4(I enjoyed MGS4 for what it is). Gears of War was fun cause it was immersive and had fun coop and online play,there is no doubt that GOW is largly responsible for a resurgence of a focus on Coop play and especially drop in anytime Coop play. I do personally think graphics do enhance immersion, though I agree they don't have to be the end all be all. I played through the game 3 times when it came out and loved every bit and in retrospect the story is not great but my opinion of it being a good game remains. In fact it seems to me a very elitist attitude to call the game crap as fact and not opinion when the world (see MetaCritic or Game Rankings) saw it as excellent, they can't all be blind rabid fanboys.

But I really think Epic is a technology driven company and that there bread and butter as they license their engine to so many companies and that probably keeps them busy. They know there customers and were they came from and want to continue to improve their engine. Lets face it there is not a ton of reason to license the UT3 engine for Wii as its overkill and there are cheaper technologies to use. This is not to say good games can't be made on the Wii but does that really make sense to a company that has positioned it self at making an engine that many of the great high end games are being made in.

I do hate the implications many Fanboys make that good graphics = shit gameplay they can coexist and it is oh so nice when it does. And with the NES it was about the graphics if it had just made blocks like the Atari 2600 it probably would have failed to capture the imaginations of the world.

Konchu

And yet Valve (or at least a company licensed by them) made Half-Life 2 for the original XBox, and it was quite remarkable (it got panned primarily because it didn't offer multi-player on-line. Who needs it for a story as compelling as Half-Life 2?). But the original XBox came with a HDD as standard, which obviously made their task a bit simpler. The Wii lacks in several crucial areas, that are becoming apparent as time goes on. I own one, and am very disappointed that the promise shown by Wii Sports has not been either developed or even utilized. Poor to fair graphics, limited simultaneous actions on-screen, motion-control schemes that seem tacked on, lack of features or options in games, etc., paint a rather bleak picture for the future of the Wii, at least for developers of serious games like Valve.

bornonce

@NeoAkira: Not exactly. His comments may seem fanboyish but what he said is pretty much true. We all know Nintendo's main target audience is younger kids, parents, and casual gamers in general so his assertions weren't too far off.

LeLoi

@MeleeKirby:You need to think before you type. You and about 4 others may prefer FPS's on a console with shit online, no voice, no DLC, crap graphics, no physics, but no one else does. Who are you going to play against? Bots?

High Voltage Software can have their niche, their games look crap. When Epic develop an Unreal Engine 3 game, the time and resources needed to port it between PC, 360, and PS3 platforms are minimal. Why the fuck would Epic then waste a shitload of time gimping their game, stripping out assets in order to fit on a Wii? If you're a genuine fan of FPS's, you won't be stuck with a Wii anyway.

So I guess you play your FPS's on another system right? Unless you only like them when they come out for a Nintendo console, in which case, you don't.
----

The Graphics over Gameplay rant.

It's not graphics over gameplay. It's graphics and gameplay. Call of Duty 4 may still be at heart, the same game as the original Call of Duty. The graphics mean that your level of immersion is unprecedented and increases you enjoyment of the game several fold. All around you things are happening, there are many on screen elements, the physics engine means that your actions have an affect on the rest of the world, and so do all the other characters. Explosions go off, sparks fly, smoke fills the sky, planes fly overhead, all this adds to the gameplay, all this the Wii cannot do.

hahnchen

@EnigmaNemesis:

Not saying I dont like their intentions (Nintendo) with the Wii controls ... but there has yet to be proof that it is far superior with gameplay over a conventional pad... yet.

EnigmaNemesis

I love it ... game makers can say, "we want to make games for the Wii because we think the controls will offer some great ideas" ... and certain people will eat it up ... then there is a developer that says, "we don't think the Wii offers us what our line of work is, and that is pushing the boundaries of graphic technologies" ... and all hell breaks looks.

Talk about your double standards.

Yes Wii fans, graphical boundaries have been being pushed since the beginning of graphics ... Nintendo was NOTORIOUS for advertising better graphics than the PSX and Genesis, and all was gravy, the minute they decide different due to it not fitting their business model of profiting on hardware sold from the get go, (lets face it, Nintendo could NOT have made a system comparable to the PS3 or 360 without losing out like them, nor probably afford to since they don't have other ventures to fall back on), and all of a sudden graphics are the suck.

Well we all love great gameplay, and you can tell which games are those ... but they don't call it VIDEOgames for nothing.

There has yet to be still a game, by Nintendo or any other to prove that control system is better than the old, yet graphics time and time again will prove to be craved to get better even with conventional controls. You dont need an "air mouse" to have great gameplay. It can still be done on a keyboard or gamepad ... ask all the SSBB owners.

EnigmaNemesis

@EnigmaNemesis: Amen

Konchu

@hahnchen:

I find it amusing that you think this way. Clearly you're biased for the whole "next-gen" thing with the PS3 and 360. If you're thinking I'm biased for Wii, you're dead wrong, because I myself own an Xbox 360 and a lot of games, including Call of Duty 4.

Yes, graphics are good, it's nice to see improvement and increased immersion, but it doesn't matter if the game itself sucks. I'm not saying Call of Duty 4 is bad, it's great, but believe me, there's lots of games out there with heavy emphasis on graphical technology, but still end up being rather mediocre to play.

Even if the Wii's online service may not handle an FPS game, which is certainly not the case (Medal of Honor Heroes 2 is lag-free proof), that doesn't mean I can't enjoy it offline. The Conduit by High Voltage Software aims to be a single player experience, which I am happy with. I enjoy good single player games as long as they keep me entertained; multiplayer isn't everything you know.

The Xbox 360 and PS3 have made no real effort to revolutionize gaming. The main thing they've done is up the graphics, just like we've been seeing every 4-6 years for the past couple of decades. If it keeps up, eventually people will lose interest in gaming, because you can only go so far with photorealism in games.

The Wii isn't a "gimmick", it comes across as such because some third parties aren't taking it seriously, making it the dumping ground for shovelware or "casual" stuff. I'm all for a wider market audience for Wii, but third parties seem to be forgetting about the core-gamer, and that's something High Voltage Software intends to change.

If anything, I believe it's you who needs to learn to think before you type, because at the moment, you're coming across as an obnoxious gamer who believes that graphics are the sole, key ingredient to gaming success, not innovation and originality.

If you even think about responding to this, here's something to think about before you do: The DS has graphical capabilities just shy of the Nintendo 64, and features two screens, one being a touchscreen, and a built-in microphone. The PSP can almost produce graphical quality of a Dreamcast game, but has no "gimmicks". Was the DS a failure? No, it was, and still is a huge success, with even BioWare now developing big titles for it. Not just because of the "casual" market, a lot of hardcore gamers approve of the DS as it has a huge library of must-have titles. The Wii will end up taking off like the DS did, it's only a matter of time.

MeleeKirby

@EnigmaNemesis: You tried metroid and Boom blox yet? I don't think boom blox wouldn've been anywhere near as fun with a conventional controller. Give it a try and see what I mean. As for metroid, I know some people don't like the way the wii does shooters but I love it. I think dual analogue sticks are weak next to the pointer in terms of gameplay potential. I guess it's just a matter of preference but I (*gulp!*) had more fun with redsteel's horrible multiplayer than I did with gears extremely polished multiplayer offering. Redsteel, not even joking. The game was ugly and buggy and extremely generic, but I had loads of fun headshotting people from across the room or running into them unexpectedly around the corner and popping a quick cap into their face. The wiimote works better and more accurately in my hands than I could ever manage with dual analogue sticks. Maybe it's not your thing but can you honestly say there's nothing that proves to you (in your experience) that the wiimote has some advantages over the traditional controller? If so, once again I urge you to give those two games a thorough playthrough.

JokesJokes

Yeah, I've got to agree with a few people here, either Mark is in dire need of Art History 101, or he just insulted one of the best artists the world has ever known (that would be Michelangelo for those who are also in need of that class).

KypFox

@Typhus: Obviously you're one of them.

Xandros

@MeleeKirby:If you think I'm being obnoxious, it's because I am. You come off as an idiot who has dismissed graphics, because you don't have a machine capable of handling it. Call of Duty 4, gimped for the Wii, would be mediocre, it'd be Call of Duty 3. Simple as that, you're ignoring the fact that graphics can and do make a difference.

I've not played Medal of Honor Wii, apparently, the only good thing on it, is the light gun mode. Why the fuck, after BioShock, Crysis, STALKER, Orange Box, heck, even Medal of Honor Airborne, would anyone even consider Medal of Honor Wii? Because you prefer to only play games on a box stamped with Nintendo? How does your online experience with friend codes, shit communication features, no ladders, no community features and no possibility for DLC match up to CoD4 or Team Fortress 2? As I said, you and about 4 others would prefer to play Unreal Tournament on the Wii.

id's upcoming Rage engine is cross platform for Mac, PC, 360 and PS3. The designers build assets once, and they work across all those platforms, do you not see how much more attractive to the developer this is? You are suggesting that developers should, instead of going cross platform, where the money and the audience is, aim for a system who's specs are clearly outclassed by everything else going. A system who's primary audience do not even care for FPS's.

You talk about graphics and innovation as if they're mutually exclusive, they're not. Crysis brought more than just great graphics, the destructible environments meant that your cover isn't forever and the excellent AI knew how to exploit it. STALKER has an open world, great AI yet again, and features an environment totally alien to most FPS games. Halo 3 has community features like Forge and movie recording, features that I hope will make it into the next wave of titles.

And yet you somehow pine for The Conduit, an unreleased game, because it happens to be on your favourite console. Other than that, what does it have going for it? A government alien conspiracy? It's last gen graphics are actually being hyped up as a unique selling point. What "innovation" does this offer? Do you think the AI will lead to some excellent new gameplay ideas? Is it going to give us the next gravity gun? It might be a new IP, but I see less innovation there than in Far Cry 2.

Graphics? Innovation? Gameplay? It's not too much to demand them all.

hahnchen

@graddy: pushing technology would be more like getting more from newer and better technology. that is what epic wants to do. nintendo isn't pushing technology so much as innovating, creating new and exciting ways to use existing tech.

James, just James

Do epic make games anymore? Don't they just make engines anyway?

@Guild_Navigator:
We just had the constant Mario vs Sonic really..

JamieA

@JokesJokes:

Will definitely check out Bloom Blox, thanks.

My point being is that people will always crave graphics. It is the nature of consoles. Gameplay is something EXPECTED.

And what I mostly meant, was there isnt a definitive thing out there, or ENOUGH of it I should say, to say a conventional controller should be scrapped for this Wiimote.

Yet people will always want better and better looking games. And not say, "scrap graphics for gameplay." That only started with Nintendo and this Wii. Where as the more rational people and not the loyalists say, "I want graphics AND gameplay."

@hahnchen:

Great post!

EnigmaNemesis

@EnigmaNemesis: Won't argue with that. I like nice graphics too.

JokesJokes