@MOP88:

/agree

EnigmaNemesis

@Daemonstar: lol NCMEC

[www.ncjrs.org]

Try 115 per year.

Jeff Paine

Good heavens!
You mean when millions of people can anonymously meet each other and communicate online, not every single one of them will be well behaved and normal?!

Next you're going to tell me I shouldn't pour fresh coffee in my lap because the hot that keeps coffee warm is the same hot that can cause burns! That's just... silly!

fuchikoma

I can summarize EVERYTHING with this:
Whatever does not increase ratings/paper-circulation/movie-ticket sales, is bad for YOU, YOUR CHILD and the great AMERICAN FLAG.

MOP88

I don't see how people can actually do the job of listening in to online conversations and chat rooms and stuff all day. Regardless of the fact that I love video games, I would go crazy after about 15 minutes. One of the reasons I keep voices muted when playing online most of the time (at least on xbox live, there are a few games that have a decent community) and avoid the general channel, trade channel, barrens chat and goldshire when playing wow.

TheGreySpectre

@Jeff Paine: @theOmegaMan:

Obviously neither of you have ever worked for law enforcement or correctional or mental health centers.

25% of all child kidnappings are by non-family members and 27% by acquaintances (name not known by the child and/or family); the taken children are usually in their teens.

The National Center for Missing & Exploited Children reports 3,000 to 5,000 child abduction by non-family members each year, most of which are sexually motivated cases. 200 to 300 cases ended up in murder (statistic, 2002).

In 2001, 840,279 persons (adults and children) were reported missing to police departments in the US. The FBI estimates that 85-90% of missing persons who were kidnapped were children. Approximately 725,000 child disappearances, or 2,000 per day, were serious enough that a parent called the police.

Daemonstar

@ratzofftoya: ::laughs;: If that was an accusation of being a pedophile, you've completely missed the point.

But it was the first time someone has said that about me, so I guess now I can feel like a true participant in the wonderful world of the Internet.

Marikir

Fear mongering!

EnigmaNemesis

Thank you Jesus! It's about time this issue starts to get some public attention.

Parents today are complete and total asstards! Do they not realize that when their adorable little child is sitting in front of the television wearing that really cute little headset, that they are actually having unsupervised voice chat with adult strangers over the internet?

I think that most parent who lock little Johnny away in his bedroom with that video game console that keeps him so entertained and so out of their hair for hours and hours at a time, would NEVER actually allow little Johnny to have unsupervised voice chat with adult strangers on a computer. So what EXACTLY makes them assume it's OK on a game console? Wait, I can answer that! Stupidity! Not taking the time to read the instruction book that came with the $400 toy they just bought little Johnny ( to keep him out of their hair.) Not taking the time to realize, "Hey, this thing has PARENTAL CONTROLS." I can let cute little Johnny play his games (keep him out of my hair) AND protect him from adult strangers AT THE SAME TIME!.

/rant. Sorry, just a pet peeve of mine.

robinandtami

@ratzofftoya: Why stop there? Let's just broaden the definition of "sick deviant" until it includes fuckos like you and me! Brilliant!
.
.
.
Please, do not misconstrue my statement. If we can eliminate the conditions (abusing parents, etc.), then we won't have to deal with many other problems.

MOP88

You just gotta explain your kids that they should not accept friend request from adults trying to look like friends, check when that happens the child should tell his parents and the parents should check if the person sending the friend request is actually a child predator.

HELLSRIDER

[www.penny-arcade.com]

That is all.

Comatose Turtle

@Jeff Paine: Do I think there is anyone after my specific children? Probably not. No evidence of it, so no worries.

Are their predators like this in the world? Yes.
Do I think that's okay? Nope.
Do I wish they would either get better or go away? You bet.

However, I'm not restricting my kids or sheltering them from the world. I'm just cautious and aware. As my kids are very young, they don't want to do anything online save play on Barbie or PlayHouseDisney yet. If and when they get into online games on the PS3 or Xbox, then they'll learn internet smarts like I learned.

The point of all this is...

It's not outside the realm of possibility for online games to be used to find victims. If you discount it and don't look "where the kids are", you will miss it. Frankly, it's nice to hear that Law Enforcement is aware of this avenue. It could happen, that's enough for me. I'm not going to restrict my kids just because they might be put at some level of danger, but I will make sure they are as safe as I can make them.

Marikir

Can I write a news story about how dumbass reporters are trying to cause mass panic by making up stupid shit to drive everybody into fear?

Oh no wait, that would the same thing.

shoutanenjeru

So I wasn't called the "N-word" and tea-bagged on Halo 3 last night by a middle schooler but by 30 year old man posing as a adolescent? Chilling.

Seriously though, while this isn't immediately relevant to me, I fear for the time when I have children playing online. I'll be sure to teach my kid about the dangers of getting to chummy with some folks online.

symeon6

Some people need to be taught that the world isn't all ponies and candy(and there usually isn't free candy in that weird van!).

The solution is pretty simple: educate the kids. Teach them that when something feels weird or wrong, they can ask their parents for advice on the situation.

The sad part is, if you stop this, child predators will move onto a new medium.

OiScout

You know, my parents always insisted they meet my new friends, and my new friend's parents, before meeting them.

Unfortunately the only way for you to protect your children from child predators is to pay attention to them, which many parents patently refuse to do.

incognit000

Forced to play videogames? Time to look for a job in law enforcement!

greyhoundbus

@Coors Light is God: Listen man. It's not the kid's fault at all. It's the parents' fault for not instilling the right behavior in their children. Until you're about 25 years old, you don't know what the hell you're doing in the world. It's all conditioning.

Still, everyone who's saying that strangers are not who you should be wary of is right on. Sexual misconduct with children is committed in over 9/10 cases by adults who are intimately familiar with them. Before the act, that is. Afterwards, I guess anyone is familiar.

By the way,
@Marikir: <---Not letting him anywhere near my children, and I suggest keeping him away from schools and playgrounds.

ratzofftoya

Since I was 12 I've been hit on by men old enough to be my father. I'm 21 now and it still grosses me out. Frankly, most guys over the age of 30 are creepy.

Who purchased the computer or video game console? Most of the time it was the parents. So if you put the money into buying little Timmy that 360 you should put in the effort. Learn to set up parental controls. I know there not 100% but still your putting out the effort. If I had (or even wanted) kids I would sit down and tell them in the real world or virtual never to give out personal info.

We would all love to live in a world without having to fearing that are children would be harmed by deviants. Sadly, we don't live in such a world.

TheDollHouse

Just go to Yahoo! Answers video game section and you see a few questions like this ALL the time:

"Hi, I just got Xbox Live, can I have ur gamertag?"

"Need friends to play with, wiifriend code exchange?"

"My PSN is XXXX what's urs?"

exkon

@otakuhouse: May as well ban the internet, tv, and any other interaction between people and technology too. The kid will learn about racism either way through school, internet, etc. And hear and/or see some weird shit on the internet. And another funny thing is, under the US government's logic and yours, you can serve in the military but can't play a video game over Xbox Live. The whole Over-18 for xbox live is just a failed thought and nothing more.

And any kid who says "SURE COME OVER MY HOUSE TO DROP OFF A GAME" is either dumb as a rock or has no common sense. It is purely the kids fault because a parent shouldn't have to tell a kid twice about common sense. That's why its called common sense.

Coors Light is God

@Jeff Paine:

I think that's what I was trying to say :-).

The number of children harmed by strangers is essentially zero. It almost never happens.

theOmegaMan

Immature kids should not have access to X-Box Live, and although it's subjective, Halo should be kept from a child until they are intelligent enough to handle its content and the harsh environment of its online play.

I don't want to put all the onus on the child or their family - sexual predators are the primary problem here - but people should know the dangers of online play (they are minimal in all actuality) and the tropes pederasts use to lure unsuspecting victims.

Video games are not the problem. Just like the internet isn't. Kids are abducted or led away in parks and malls, too. Would the media claim these to be questionable venues? No. They wouldn't.

vanderblade

@Marikir: OK, but that doesn't change the fact that you're being overly paranoid and I certainly hope you're not using the opportunity to shelter your kids and deprive them of a childhood, like everyone that called this woman the worst mother in the world

Jeff Paine

@MOP88: We should just try to kill every "sick deviant" before they strike. It'll be easy to sort them out, too. Fun!

ratzofftoya

@s0njas0n: You need to stop watching that TV show.

ratzofftoya

@Shiryu:

+ Watch video

Thanatos-

@theOmegaMan: @TRT-X: This.

There's a ridiculously low number of children that are kidnapped by someone that isn't part of their own family or someone they consider a close friend.

If someone's gonna rape your kids it's more likely to be you than some random guy in a black van waiting outside a Chuck E. Cheese's.

Jeff Paine

Yeah, the thing is about video games that a lot of parents miss is that there are lots of satisfying, adult-ish games that aren't completely out there like Halo. A game like Okami is probably what I would recommend to anyone looking for an action-RPG for their kids anyways. Decent message, some dirty humor but so what? What I don't get is that parents are buying XBoxes for their kids when there are systems that are so much more kid friendly (even the PS2!). I mean, I think that some parents take it to an extreme (like making a fuss over the Teen rating...)

@CowboyRob: Really, really, really. Well, aren't they putting too much effort into it anyways even if they are on Neopets or LJ or something like that? I mean, come on. Get a life :/.

dreamy-moon

@Jeff Paine: They don't have to be on every corner...

There just has to be ONE for it to be too many.

And you will not be able to change my mind about this.

Marikir

Quick! Somebody call Danny Glover!

All kidding aside though, it surprises me how many kids I run into while playing online. They probably shouldn't be playing TF2 or CS:S, but I can't really complain since I was playing TFC and Quake 2 when I was their age.

Pezdispenser

I have had one that tried to get my name and adress/ phone number in my whole life and I am not a complete retard, so I didn't. I think most kids won't if you teach them not to be dumb.

RomieYO

@s0njas0n: No actually it's the other way. Sure be careful with your kids, but don't expect 'predators' around every corner otherwise they're going to be so sheltered it's unlikely they'll be able to deal with the real world.

As for kids, I don't believe they should be allowed into the online gaming environment, not just for their safety but the development of the communities on the whole, it's quite obvious some parents don't have a hold on their kids, having your little devil screaming "faggot" at someone down LIVE shouldn't be any more socially acceptable than them doing it in the middle of the street.

I was given unlimited unchecked internet (dial up, lol) access from the age of 12 up, mainly because my mother taught me to be responsible and to NEVER give out personal information online!

Klopfer123

@macr0planet: HA totally man, thats hilarious - "sarge, in the best interests of the children, i'm going to have to play Call Of Duty 4 throughout the week. Please put a 360 and an Xbox Live account on the budget for this year."

F22

@thejakeman: visit my site!: Close, but take the word "don't" out of there.

There are predators, there are killers, there are weird and dangerous people out there.

But if you start thinking "they're everywhere" then you're boxing yourself into a very small and cramped box of trust.

If you're one of those people that thinks "they're everywhere", promise me you won't have children. Ever.

TRT-X

At least you've not got her playing Second Life...

Iarwain

@s0njas0n:

Actually, I don't believe that there are child predators everywhere. I think if there were, there would be many more children being hurt/kidnapped/molested by strangers. And guess what, this is essentially a zero valued statistic. If a child is hurt in any way, aside from the few on the news, it is almost assuredly by someone they are related to or know well, not a stranger form the interwebs.

theOmegaMan

@ggodo:

Honestly, I wasn't sure. I don't have it and I don't like the Halo series to begin with. I was pretty sure it did, and I told her that. However... it was her 12 year-old son that was insisting upon the game.

Ignatius

To this article's headline...let's get one thing straight.

It should read Are predators after your children?

Be it video games, forums, messengers, movie theaters, parks, malls, sporting events, church, school...they're the same predators. The medium is completely null and void. The same guy trying to nab Susie over WoW is the same guy at the mall eyeing over the Junior Miss section is the same guy who goes to Rugrats in Paris at 5:30 with a bucket of popcorn and a van...

This headline is just basically taking the same story and inserting whatever the hot new medium happens to be in order to make it appear somehow more relevant. As if predators are like wild animals and migrate from one food source to the next.

TRT-X

It happens...

bubble-bee

@s0njas0n: other way around.

or rephrase as "if you don't think there are predators everywhere, you have a naive view of reality"

thejakeman: visit my site!

@Ignatius: Did you tell her it does? Hell, at that point I would've menioned that the language gets worse depending on the difficulty level, then pointed her twords something more mild, but just as good as Halo, like. . . uh. . . nothing on the Xbox, Kameo?

ggodo

"Nintendo's friend code system is only safe until your child starts visiting internet forums to exchange them with 'friends'."
Even after your child visits the internet forum, the friend code system is still safe. It doesn't allow any communication that wouldn't have been possible on the forum.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

So.. that 12 year old that was kicking my ass at Halo 3, that must've been a law enforcement offical that plays Halo 3 for a living.

elementary

You remember that whole "Don't talk to strangers" thing we all learned in elementary school? Yeah, that still applies in today's society.

Parents need to fucking step up and make sure they know what their children are doing.

PissedPS3Fan

Playing WoW and busting sickos? I might apply.

The_nub_next_door

@s0njas0n: @Marikir: You guys watch the news too much. Seriously. There aren't people at every corner waiting to rape your kids.

Jeff Paine

It'd be great if these child predators realized at some point, "You know, I'm probably putting too much effort into this. Now I'm learning video games to befriend kids."

And then they'd channel their time and effort into something more appropriate. Of course, this all happens in my world where everyone rides rainbow unicorns.

CowboyRob

forced to play video games LOL. Sounds rough.

XGamerX

@Jeff Paine: Well PS3 has a voice changer that works pretty effectively. I was messing around when I got my bluetooth headset and went in a COD4 game with a high pitched girly voice. Hilarity followed, people truely believed I was a girl... or a chipmunk...

Kyolux

The story is entirely true. Too bad it's also entirely lopsided. Still - if parents think their lonely kid's online friends are universally a good thing, maybe they should pick up a copy of the USA Today. And then get them on a bus to camp.

Tonx

@Jeff Paine: Voice filters.
Don't use voice chat. Use messages and text instead.
And practice, practice, practice.

In other words, these sick freaks who should Die die die will do whatever they can to get what they want...which in a perfect world should be felatiating an Uzi, but I digress.

Why yes, I have kids, why do you ask?

Marikir

Theres a reason nobody wants that squealing 13 year old on XBL. All they do there is Swear and cuss...

Dude From Dubai

[www.amazon.com]

This confused me.

otakuhouse

A sick deviant adult in a childish environment will always have the upper hand. And until we adress the bigger issue (why such people exist and the conditions that formed them), all we can do is keep our eyes on the younglings.

MOP88

My parents always taught me never to give info like my address and phone number to a stranger. This was before the strangers went digital, but I think the lesson still applies. Parents just need to drill that point home for the digital playground as well as the analog.

Punishingwombat

Well i dont get why parents cant tell their kids not to trust strangers online. If parents can supervise what and how their kids are playing then this shouldn't be a problem.

smuckersisgood

What's funny is, when I worked at Target, some parent came in wanting to know about the Xbox 360. Wanted to buy Halo 3 for her 12 year old son. I told her it was rated M for Mature and contained blood, violence, etc.

You know what she wanted to know? If it contained swearing.

Parents don't give a shit about their kids, they care about being left alone and the kid can zone out for hours without trying to rebel.

Ignatius

Reminds me of the good old days:

[www.oldmanmurray.com]

But seriously, they shouldn't let anyone under 18 on xbox live. They seriously need to think about how the majority of social interactions on live involve racism, homophobia, and sexual deviancy.

otakuhouse

I think it just gives an escuse for some law officials to play games while working. I mean, come on. I guess this is the new age of 'online chatting.' No matter where you go, predators are out there. Go to the petting zoo, they are there trying to steal your children. The candy shop, toy stores.

macr0planet

if you don't think child predators are everywhere then you have a jaded sense of reality.

s0njas0n

Do you even realize how rare it is for adults to pretend they're children? Most of the time I'm hearing about middle-aged guys pretending they're in their 20s, if they're lying about their age at all.

Not to mention it'll be pretty damn hard for a 40-year-old to disguise his voice to sound like a 13-year-old.

Jeff Paine

That Predator's (pic) honor as reached an all time low. Being pcitured in a child molestor news... hes probably gonna go nuclear any second now.

Note to Parents: Don't let your underaged kids play WoW, even if it says its ok on the Box...

Shiryu

tell the parents to turn the volume up on the TV - if your kid is playing a one on one vs "Rusty Nail" maybe they should be worried

TheLegendof_Erick

@ratzofftoya: Interesting viewpoint. I can see where that can be viewed as slightly suspect. I don't personally see it that way, but okay.

I guess I would also ask if you felt the same way about using undercover Narcotics agents as buyers/sellers and undercover cops as posititutes/johns?

Marikir

@Jordan Lund:
Yes.

I hope this article causes a mass panic of parents to rip the sexboxtreesixtyninety out of their children's rooms across the nation and either throw them into the family rooms or out in the street. The former so that they can hear how their precious little snowflakes behave online so that they can correct them. The latter for when the environment fosters behaviour like this:

+ Watch video

xanderphydeaux

@Marikir: Their methods on these things are extremely questionable and, in my opinion, unconstitutional. The police go online and engage in essentially the same thing as these individuals: they pretend to be children, in many cases. They're enticing and luring people into committing a crime. Pedophilia is a sickness and a disease, and the police act in a way equivalent to someone pouring shots of Johnny Walker Blue Label in front of an alcoholic. What do you expect? The online world runs on anonymity, and often times people will play out their fantasies online, and never move to the real world. By the police literally ENCOURAGING pedophiles to ask for their addresses and things like that, they're discounting the possibility of such an outcome never occurring. An adult with an agenda typing chat messages is a far cry from a 10-year-old. The whole system is stupid, and anyone supports it is an absolute zealot. Which, I suppose, can't be helped--George Bush got REelected by quite a margin.

ratzofftoya

@Marikir: Ack, by article, I didn't mean the USA Today article. I meant the original post, especially the part at the end with Fahey's personal experience with a computer forensic specialist.

Marikir

Easy Solution: Parents, be involved in what your children do. Whether it's playing baseball in the park, surfing the web, or playing videogames. The world is a scary place and it's YOUR job to protect them. Everyone is swift to blame media and technology on predators. Reality check- predators have been around since the beginning of civilized nations.

ThisCharmingMan

@Daemonstar: And I suppose we're supposed to assume that you have worked with law enforcement. STEP BACK GUYS AN EXPERT ON THE INTERNET COMIN' THROUGH.

"the taken children are usually in their teens."

Which kind of doesn't make them children, does it.
There's a distinct difference between someone orchestrating an abduction and someone charged with kidnapping, but our society is so unintelligent and lazy to this point that we're just going to use the same terms to mean different things. So that when people go back and read something later, they'll assume the worst. Good job getting statistics to say what you want to say instead of sectioning that information out, though, and grabbing a group known for it to do that dirty work for you. Would you like to quote some statistics from Focus on the Family and/or the National Institute for Media and the Family next?

xanderphydeaux

@Jeff Paine: From your source again. "There were an estimated 58,200 child victims of nonfamily abduction, defined more broadly to include all nonfamily perpetrators (friends and acquaintances as well as strangers) and crimes involving lesser amounts of forced movement or detention in addition to the more serious crimes entailed in stereotypical kidnappings"

Table 3 in your source describes 37% of all nonfamily abductions perpetrators being strangers.

Doing the math that comes to 21,534 of the nonfamily abductions being done by strangers.

kirby822

Yay alarmist media.

Carnok

I believe the short skit The Parlor best illustrates why online chat rooms, and, by extension, online communities in general, are places to be cautious of.

If you haven't seen The Parlor, here you go. WARNING: Probably NSFW.

+ Watch video

Shook-Yang

@EmeraldDragon: I think that's the point of the article.

I'm just encouraged to know that Law Enforcement agencies aren't sticking their heads in the sand when it comes to game consoles and/or internet games like WoW.

Marikir

@Jeff Paine: From your source, the 115 would be "defined as abductions perpetrated by a stranger or slight acquaintance and involving a child who was transported 50 or more miles, detained overnight, held for ransom or with the intent to keep the child permanently, or killed."
By that definition, some kid getting walking home and getting hauled in to a van, molested and then dumped a few blocks away wouldn't count.

kirby822

The best, and probably only real, protection for this sort of thing is to teach your children to be careful and aware of the dangers of the internet, and monitor their useage thereof.

EmeraldDragon

Since Halo is rated M for mature there shouldn't be any kids playing it anyway, right?

Jordan Lund

*old man voice* man these kids now and days with their new fangled technology, only making it easier to get kidnapped. BACK IN MY DAY it was easy to spot a child predator, he usually rolled up in a van, sometimes offered you candy, and then when you approach WHAM! grab ya and peel off into the sunset to do unspeakable acts of depravity...those were the days....*end old man voice*

so true story, back when i was in like 2nd grade i almost was snatched by one of said men in vans. (he was asking for directions, sneaky bastard). luckily my babysitter caught it in time and he was caught a week later.

demonknightinuyasha

@Marikir: "Do I wish they would either get better or go away? You bet."

Actually, I believe what you want them to be doing is "felatiating [sic] an Uzi" until they "Die die die." That's why you're fucking crazy and have repressed memories or, more likely, tendencies. But it's nice to see you talking sanely.

@MOP88: "If we can eliminate the conditions (abusing parents, etc.), then we won't have to deal with many other problems." Absolutely agree. I would start with the above guy.

ratzofftoya

@dowingba: As opposed to people who jump on a forum and post "My gamertag/PSN ID is ____"?

I see no difference.

TRT-X

@ratzofftoya: I think you're confusing the "work" done by TV shows and vigilante groups with the work done by professional police and law enforcement agencies. They don't behave the same. They don't have the same methods. One is just trying for sensationalism and guilt, the other is attempting to stop/prosecute crimes.

I think that the law enforcement agencies using chatrooms, game lobbies, whatever, and watching for this behavior is fine. I am pretty sure that just talking is not grounds for prosecution. I would believe that there is a line that the potential predator has to cross before the police attempt to apprehend the person. I don't know what that line is, but I'm sure it's a line that corresponds to legal, prosecutorial precedant.

Police don't want to be accused of entrapment. They have had decades of experience, I would assume, in learning how far is too far. Whether or not those lines are too restrictive or too loose...well, that's whole other debate.

Marikir

@ThisCharmingMan@robinandtami: true.

I say its not a parents job to buy everything the kid wants (that ps3 w/ MGS4/MGO) to "make them happy". It IS their job to ensure the child will safely(not getting molested by e-strangers) develop into a well adjusted(knows how to team play), successful adult (motivated).

@Jordan Lund: parents' fault
@MGSchick: +10 parenting points
@Coors Light is God: I disagree. Common sense needs to be taught. We are not born with our adults sensibilities; they are the sum of our experiences. Just as you teach a child not to touch the hot stove top, you must also teach to not go into the back of an ice-cream truck even if the nice man offers a "free Popsicle."

kevlarkevin

I wonder if there's going to be any "Hard Candy" copycats playing out their roles on XBL or PSN...

bobtheduck

It's always been my opinion that Nintendo's "Friend Codes" are even more dangerous than Xbox Live. Simply because it forces kids to exchange information with completely random people huge numbers at a time on anonymous internet forums.

dowingba

@ratzofftoya:

"That's completely naive."

No, not really. I've been following this stuff for awhile and, erm. Have an invested interest in it.

"You realize that "To Catch A Predator" is only the most egregious cases, right? The vast majority are much less cut-and-dry."

Yes.

"A pedophile doesn't just say "Hey, want to have sex?" There's a conversation that precedes it, and it requires agency on the part of the child(/fucked-up adult wanting to portray a child and be solicited for sex)."

That's right. They don't just say "hey want some sexingz el oh el". There's an entire social engineering process put forth to put the potential victim at ease.

"The site that spurred "TCAP," Perverted Justice, posts chat logs of pedophiles and Perverted Justice agents that don't result in solicitation for an address or anything like that. Then, they proceed to put up the pedophile's address, phone number, email, picture, and chat handle, and people are free to comment on the chat--it's totally Web 2.0!"

Yes, I'm absolutely against this sort of easily forgible vigilantism. It should be left to properly trained officers and kept a private affair until someone has been convicted beyond a shadow of a doubt.

"They even post pictures of the pedophiles' penises or bodies for people to rate and ridicule. Mind you, these people have committed no crime. Justice, indeed. "

Slow down there, sparky. If they've got pictures of bodies and penises, it's because the perp distributed that material to the victim, allegedly. Exposing yourself to a minor is absolutely a potential crime.

xanderphydeaux

Icky, unsurprising, but icky.
Still, common sense saw a generation through dimly lit video arcades frequented by the same sweaty creeps with minimal casualties, and at least now the pedos aren't physically present.

cynopt

How did any of us survive childhood? Between the fluoride in the water and pervs in raincoats, shouldn't we all be mutated, dead, or molested by now?

Trust me, I'm a doctor

@ratzofftoya: Not to mention this is the guy who runs Perverted Justice:

+ Watch video

And he doesn't even do it to protect children, he does it because the he likes to harrass people. [xavier-pj.blogspot.com]

Jeff Paine

@xanderphydeaux: That's completely naive. You realize that "To Catch A Predator" is only the most egregious cases, right? The vast majority are much less cut-and-dry.

A pedophile doesn't just say "Hey, want to have sex?" There's a conversation that precedes it, and it requires agency on the part of the child(/fucked-up adult wanting to portray a child and be solicited for sex).

The site that spurred "TCAP," Perverted Justice, posts chat logs of pedophiles and Perverted Justice agents that don't result in solicitation for an address or anything like that. Then, they proceed to put up the pedophile's address, phone number, email, picture, and chat handle, and people are free to comment on the chat--it's totally Web 2.0! They even post pictures of the pedophiles' penises or bodies for people to rate and ridicule. Mind you, these people have committed no crime. Justice, indeed.

ratzofftoya

Parents really need to pay attention to what their kids are up too, and tell them about things like not sharing personal information with strangers. Then, I think we wouldn't have to worry about things like this so much. Step up and be responsible, mom & dad.

.em.

Ah, ratzofftoya explained his position a bit better. Disregard my message, I'm closer in agreeance with him.

xanderphydeaux

@MGSchick: I don't think I agree. Parents not being around just means we live in a fucked up society that forces people to work rather than raise their children, or merely makes parents FEEL like that's the case.

There's no functional (and very little cognitive) difference between 13- and 16-year-olds. That distinction is indeterminate. What about a 13-year-old that's really gifted? What about a 16-year-old that's especially naive? A hard and fast rule of "Don't give information to people, and tell me if someone is bothering you or asking you questions" would work much better than some cut-off. Children should be exposed to the world as early as they can/want to handle it. But it shouldn't be in a completely unadulterated way.

ratzofftoya

@Marikir: I think there tends to be a happy medium, and ratzofftoya may very well be confusing the process it takes to nab these guys.

Much like the "To Catch A Predator" chats, the cops aren't seeking out people. They're, in Halo for example, will just be sitting in a matchmaking game lobby and seeing if they get solicited first, and then follow through with the ruse.

If they were "BratzRc00l6969" and blurbing about how they want to be sexed up and how tight they are, THAT would be entrapment and would be abhorrent on each side of the spectrum.

But that's not usually how it goes. Innocuous name, kid voice, not speaking out to any particular person in a lobby... it'll totally be on the predator to solicit their intent first.

xanderphydeaux

@demonknightinuyasha:

That is fricken scary! Glad your babysitter stopped the guy. The part with the old man voice was funny though.

MGSchick

@Marikir: It's not just slightly suspect, man. The reality is that the cops who choose to go online and do this have probably had some negative encounter with pedophilia in the past (personally or by proxy) and often share your die die die/uzi fellatio mentality.

My main problem is the post hoc ergo propter hoc mentality. Their INTENT is to exploit a MENTAL ILLNESS. So those are the the two elements. I would say that, most of the time, drug dealing and prostitution are not pathological behavior. There's a degree of willpower there. Second, there's a much higher degree of solicitation and falsehood: a policeman dressed up like a drug buyer/seller or prostitute/john pretty much looks and acts like one of those individuals, and if he doesn't the criminal can change his behavior. A police officer posing as a child online, however, doesn't talk at all like a child, and has very little idea of what a typical child might say. Third, the cases you mention involve an actual crime, whereas merely talking to a child online is enough to get you into trouble, while it is not illegal. These individuals may not actually follow through with their actions, but they're completely lured into doing so.

ratzofftoya

Dude. People. Scare me.

sir_carrot

@Punishingwombat:
Yeah my parents did the same thing. I think it's just hard if a parent is not involved that much in what they're kids are doing. My mom's boyfriends daughters they each have a myspace and they don't put it on private yet they have what city they live in and where they go to school on there and I'm like anyone can look at that. Parents need to drill into them like you said. Also I don't think all kids need to play Xbox Live and if they do, parents need to pay attention to who they're making friends with. I would if I were a parent. But this doesn't surprise me since predators will try anything, plus if you're 13 years old or younger, you might be just to young and naive to tell the difference. I think they should only allow kids of a certain age to play Xbox Live. I'd say it should be 16 or up. But that's just my 2 cents.

MGSchick

Hmm, I think this is just an excuse for the cops to be able to play World of Warcraft at work. Oh no, addiction, Batman!

SpearXXI

@ratzofftoya: To clarify, when I used the word "decades," I was referring to the concept of entrapment and how they have had to deal with that when performing other undercover sting operations. It wasn't just about the internet. I've figured out that, in this discussion, hyperbole isn't appropriate (see your reaction to my 'Uzi and Die die die' statements) so I wasn't making some ridiculous timeframe argument.

I would argue that any so called line has been argued by society with the jury system and judges and the myriad of cases that occur.

You seem to have a basic problem with the cops pretending to be kids. I guess that's the most basic point that we disagree on. I don't have a problem with it. To me, to catch certain criminals, police have to become a part of the scene that the criminal is in. Be that an undercover cop pretending to be a drug dealer/buy, a prostitute/john, or an underage kid. To me, if the potential criminal takes that step...that's their fault for making that choice. At that point, they have crossed from protential to actual criminal.

You are right though, in one aspect. Police aren't around to protect individual liberties. They are around to enforce the law and, by their presence, disuade those actions that are deemed illegal. If society ever deems the actions currently prohibited to NOT be a crime, the police would stop enforcing that law.

Marikir

They should do a "World of Warcraft: To Catch a Predator" season of that TV Show, and see how many predators they catch in a season, than compare it to myspace

evlyti

The question is how much you value innocence. You could give a child a frank lecture about the nature and dangers of rape, but that would darken their world. I think most people would want to shelter children from that until they're older and stronger. Having said that, one would have to take an interest in your children's activities. It's easy to say that, but I'm no parent. I know my parents loved me and were rather responsible, but even they didn't follow up on what videogames I played, what anime I watched, etc. On the other hand, my parents used to make me watch America's Most Wanted. That was a show to make kids aware of danger. I think they should bring that show back, if only for that reason.

AllegraStreit

Kids shouldn't be told to simply assume everyone's out to get them. Kids should be told to be wary and to ensure that they are sensible. There's nothing wrong with making friends online, or talking to people online, but if you're going to start meeting them or giving them personal information, you need some smarts and some caution. Parents should be involved with that, checking people out, making sure things are legit.

Mister Adequate

@Marikir: With the internet having only been in wide use for a decade and these practices for even less time, I would say that police have very little idea what is and is not legal online. The nation's courts wrestle with it constantly. Even entrapment itself is extremely difficult to prove. There is no set line that a criminal was cross, if there is a line, it was decided on by policemen and not society. And even if it was decided by society, we should still examine how appropriate it is. Lines don't matter when the whole operation is marred by the fact that a policeman is pretending to be a little kid. That just doesn't jive with me. I explained why above, without reference to perverted justice. @ratzofftoya

Police want to put people away. They have a tough job to do, and they work hard at it. This isn't a civil law society, it's an adversarial one. Police aren't supposed to be the ones standing up for individual liberties. We are.

ratzofftoya

I find it ridiculous, there are freaks everywhere, not just the internet and online gaming. When I was a little kid, if some random guy asked my address on the nets I would tell them to go to hell and then tell my parents/call the cops. I mean if the kid is stupid enough to give out info like that over the web he deserves what happens. (Sorry for sounding cynical but I think it's true.)

Colt45J

@dowingba: Except the point of friend codes is that you're only supposed to share them with your friends. Hence, friend codes.

If people are trading them online that's not Nintendo's fault.

Jeff Paine

@xanderphydeaux: "Exposing yourself to a minor is absolutely a potential crime."

Right. But exposing yourself to a minor on the internet is not a crime, because you don't really know if the person is a minor, a miner, a mime, a man, a woman, a robot, a spambot, personified SPAM, whatever. A potential crime is not a crime.

"There's an entire social engineering process put forth to put the potential victim at ease."

That's exactly right. Which is why it's naive to think that a police officer is just kicking back and watching it happen. A billion alternate scenarios that are NOT illegal could have resulted if the person on the other end of the pedophile was not a cop, but a real child.

ratzofftoya

@Marikir: No. I'm all for the prevention of abuse. A lot of my work deals with abused women and children. I'm also for the prevention of terrorist attacks, but against the detention of all people who say they'd like to harm this country.

ratzofftoya

Freedom of expression is not the same thing as having a sense of civic responsibility or decency. I'm all for porn, south park, legalization of marijuana. I don't take the trash talking on xbox live seriously, but I'll be damned if the nature and tone of it isn't a display of something wholly pervasively wrong with our attitudes today. Yeah, I know teenagers will be teenagers, but the crass sense of entitlement, selfishness, and self centred egotism combined with a total lack of parenting hasn't done anyone any good. And I'm sorry, but like the video above, that's unfortunately all too common on Live. Registering complaints doesn't do jack. Hell I remember one evening in COD an adult was talking some pretty disgusting sex stuff to someone who sounded like a 10 year old to the point where everyone in the room told him to knock it off. Several of us lodged complaints in the interface, and nothing happened.

I'm saying that a community needs some form of civic duty and a sense of what is not acceptable to the community, and systems like Xbox Live don't do jack about that but they sure want your community dollars.

Like Cormac McCarthy says in No Country for Old Men... "It starts when you begin to overlook bad manners".

otakuhouse

@elpflasa: I'm not sure where you went to law school, but your education is highly dubious. I'm not even talking about the ad hominem attacks or your decidedly cowboy-ish mentality. I know that you do great work as a member of law enforcement, and I sincerely respect it, but you're speaking candidly and anonymously here, and therefore shouldn't be forced to espouse such a naive view of the law.

"no you #$@#$^&%$ moron. It is a crime, and a tremendously damaging and dangerous one at that." I see. So pedophilia is a crime? I had no idea. I thought that the crime was soliciting sex from a minor or enticing a minor to perform sexual acts. I must be wrong.

"Police do not decide what is or is not a crime, society, through elected legislatures are the only ones who can create a criminal law that bans/punishes something. The police do not decide what the law is, they merely enforce it." But if and when the police make a mistake, a potentially innocent person is still called a pedophile, and the stigma persists despite exoneration.

"The fact is that police officers recieve EXTENSIVE training in what they can and cannot legally do." EXCEPT after C, sir. Anyhow, police officers make mistakes. And people outside of law enforcement must make sure that they don't, that's all I'm saying. As for "innocent until proven guilty," unfortunately, sex crimes against children tend to work the opposite way.

"you deserve every beat-down you're going to get in the State pen." Yikes. Are you sure you're an SE prosecutor and not Walker, Texas Ranger? I'm glad your username isn't more revealing, or you may get fired for views like that. I hope you do.

The fact is that this issue draws a lot of ire, and it's the job of concerned people to step in where emotions tend to run high and make sure that all sides are kept in check.

ratzofftoya

@Colt45J: Its this sort of scapegoating of the victim that leads to so many problems today. It's the "women are raped because their skirts are too short" or "people are homeless/poor because they want to be". I've gotta say you don't sound cynical, you sound horrible. Honestly it's pretty easy to see that a lot of this responsibility rests on the environment in which people find themselves, that's why I think that it's definitely the responsibility of the parent to impress upon the kid when it's ok to give out your address and etc. To sit there and say "if a kid gets nabbed off of xbox it's because he was stupid and deserves to never be seen again" or whatever your point was is franky... terrifying. Like, I'm terrified.

Slap Bet

So predators go where children are....online on M rated games that they shouldn't be on anyway.

Granted, even if children DID play games suitable for their age group, and even if the children's parents weren't patently neglectful there would still be predators on the games, but surely they would be far less obvious if they were in a game populated almost exclusively by children?

vyleside

ratz: i reread my post and the "you" in the last paragraph was not imed at YOU personally, more a general "you" I don't mean to suggest that you are a pedophile.

elpflasa

[www.metacafe.com]

EnigmaNemesis

@ratzofftoya: "Here come the thought police... "

Are you arguing against the prevention of abuse?

If that is your intention...then, the only thing to be said is:

We disagree.

Marikir

Ok, back to you raztofftoya:

"Pedophilia is a sickness and a disease" no you #$@#$^&%$ moron. It is a crime, and a tremendously damaging and dangerous one at that.

"often times people will play out their fantasies online, and never move to the real world" good god, man, what is wrong with you? If ADULTS want to go to an adult chat room and act like babies, then go enjoy your freak asses off, but this is frickin' xbox live and Nintendo games we are talking about here, not an alt.com play room, you idiot.

"There is no set line that a criminal was cross, if there is a line, it was decided on by policemen and not society"
Police do not decide what is or is not a crime, society, through elected legislatures are the only ones who can create a criminal law that bans/punishes something. The police do not decide what the law is, they merely enforce it.

"Police want to put people away. They have a tough job to do, and they work hard at it. This isn't a civil law society, it's an adversarial one. Police aren't supposed to be the ones standing up for individual liberties. We are"
due, have you gotten a lot of tickets lately? I hope that's the case and not something worse. The fact is that police officers recieve EXTENSIVE training in what they can and cannot legally do. And when they mess up and cross the line, prosecutors review every case to ensure that the Constitution has not been volated and it teh prosecutors do not catch something, there are defense lawyers and public defenders who are there to argue for the defendant's. There has been no society in the history of the world that has offered defendants so much protection against the State (and rightly so!). You ever hear of "innocent until proven guilty"? Do you have ANY IDEA of how truly revolutionary that idea is?

I have no idea what your problem is, ratz, society, through the legislatures, have decided that it should be illegal to commit lewd acts with minors and that it should be illegal to entice minors to commit lewd acts. If you have fantasies about minors, go find some like-minded adults and get your pretend freak on, but if your actions cross over into the real world, if you solicit a minor online and try to meet them, if you contact minors with the intent to solicit them, you deserve every beat-down you're going to get in the State pen.

elpflasa

You mean xXxL33tSn1perxXx is actually a cop!?!

Quicksilver4648

@Marikir: "I don't think the police should literally have to catch the person in the act of the abuse or wait until after it has occured before going after the person."

Here come the thought police...

ratzofftoya

@elpflasa: Before you finish your post, which I am eager to read, let me just say that i never mentioned entrapment and don't really think that this is an issue here. What I think is the issue is that the inducement or encouragement negatively effects those people who do NOT make plans, or perhaps make plans but don't actually go meet the children. The flooding of these oft-used venues with undercover officers will more likely than not cause at least a few people some grief while they battle with pedophilia. But since you DO mention entrapment, I think that the police conduct more than meets this standard.

ratzofftoya

Only to beat the snot out of them, maybe.

lordargent

@Marikir: I meant, I'm going to shut up and let the man speak. Sorry for any confusion.

Marikir

@elpflasa: Shuts up and let's the man speak.

Marikir

@ratzofftoya: "That's the thing, though. The crime is all kinds of sexual relations WITH A MINOR. There policemen are not minors. They are adults."

Granted. There becomes an issue though when the accused believes they are interacting with a child and proceeds to behave in an illegal manner. To me, that's too far. To you, it sounds like, intent isn't enough. I don't think the police should literally have to catch the person in the act of the abuse or wait until after it has occured before going after the person. That's a little too loose for me.

"Absolutely not. 99% of cases are resolved without jury. "

That would be why I said "jury system and judges." I suppose I should have mentioned just the generic "criminal justice system with prosecution and defense lawyers, juries, and judges" as well, but I assumed that was a given. If, however, you're referring to confessions and/or guilty pleas...well, if the accused feels they didn't go far enough, I assume they would fight which would bring the criminal justice system into play.

Marikir

A few words first then I want to address ratzofftoya specifically

I am a prosecutor for a very large metropolitan city in the southeast of the US and have been so for over 15 years. I am currently in a unit that, among other things is working on tracking defendants who are registered sex offenders under what's called the "Jessica Lunsford Act." For any who think that sex offenders are not a significant problem, Jessica Lunsford was a young girl who was brutally murdered by a sex offender, and the danger of sex predators to our kids is truly real, and we in law enforcement would not be doing our jobs if we did not employe every legal, constitutional tool in our arsenal to fight this menace.

There are some very, very bad people out there (probably far more than you think, unfortunately); the trick is to find a balance between overly protecting your child (locking them away from everything) and abandoning them through neglect (here's your xbox and your internet connection, Johhny, now run along and stop botherin' me). The fact is there are significantly more venues today where children are vulnerable than there have ever been in the past.

The USA Today article, while alarmist in tone, is not a bad thing to have out there to educate parents about dangers they should be aware of. As has been often commented upon, many parents today are nowhere near as vigilant as they should, or could, be (i.e. yes, Virginia, parents can be dumb); if we, as gamers (I am indeed one of you) do not want to have politicians overreacting, we need to have articles like the USA Today's to educate parents to the dangers their kids face. How quick to start banning things do you think some politicians will be if some poor child winds up dead after being solicited on Xbox Live or from a Nintendo code?

As a community and industry, we need to police ourselves as well to ensure we're not on the receiving end of endless draconian regulations, which is why Microsoft is cooperating with law enforcement agencies.

@ratzofftoya:

you, sir/madam are an idiot.

"Their methods on these things are extremely questionable and, in my opinion, unconstitutional."

There is EXTENSIVE law on what is or is not entrapment(for full jury instructions from our Florida Supreme Court, go here: [www.floridasupremecourt.org] )
the gist of the idea of entrapment is that a person is entrapped if they are not ready to commit the crime, but for the inducement/encouragement of law enforcement officers. It is not entrapment merely to use tricks or subterfuge. The police do not go out and arrest you if you say some dirty things online, but the moment you make an effort to carry out your plans (i.e. actually make arrangements and meet the "child" in real life) they will make an arrest.

more to come in a moment, computer is acting up

elpflasa

It's internet chat-room all over again.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

@Marikir: "To me, if the potential criminal takes that step...that's their fault for making that choice. At that point, they have crossed from protential to actual criminal." That's the thing, though. The crime is all kinds of sexual relations WITH A MINOR. There policemen are not minors. They are adults. Hence the difference between this and undercover cops in more traditional roles. When the crime is to sell drugs, they actually sold drugs, albeit to an undercover buyer. When their crime is to solicit their body for money, they actually do that. In this case, they never actually commit the crime that they are charged with.

"I would argue that any so called line has been argued by society with the jury system and judges and the myriad of cases that occur."

Absolutely not. 99% of cases are resolved without jury.

ratzofftoya

If I have an 8 year old that wants to play WoW daddy will be questing w/ him the ENTIRE time. You might as well allow your kid to walk around Time Square by himself.

Too many weirdos and pervs in WoW to manage!

DefDealer

To get into something more specific about what is or is not a crime (at least here in Florida):
2 key statutes (both F.S. 800.04):
__________________________________________

(6) Lewd or lascivious conduct.--

(a) A person who:

1. Intentionally touches a person under 16 years of age in a lewd or lascivious manner; or

2. Solicits a person under 16 years of age to commit a lewd or lascivious act

commits lewd or lascivious conduct.

courts have held that:

Defendant could be found guilty of attempted lewd and lascivious act, although police had used decoy and thus act would have been committed on adult, as correspondence written by defendant to decoy was sufficient to establish that defendant possessed the intent to commit lewd and lascivious acts with a boy he believed to be 14 years old and took overt steps to attain his goal, regardless of fact that boy did not exist. Hudson v. State, App. 2 Dist., 745 So.2d 997 (1999).

_________________________________________________

more directly as it relates to xbox live:

(b) A person who:

3. Intentionally commits any other sexual act that does not involve actual physical or sexual contact with the victim, including, but not limited to, sadomasochistic abuse, sexual bestiality, or the simulation of any act involving sexual activity live over a computer online service, Internet service, or local bulletin board service and who knows or should know or has reason to believe that the transmission is viewed on a computer or television monitor by a victim in this state who is less than 16 years of age, commits lewd or lascivious exhibition. The fact that an undercover operative or law enforcement officer was involved in the detection and investigation of an offense under this paragraph shall not constitute a defense to a prosecution under this paragraph.
_______________________________________________________

these are laws as enacted by the Florida Legislature acting on behalf of the people of Florida. These are not whims of police officers out to "get someone"

elpflasa

Here we are in Stranger Danger Land again. Statistically, it's not strangers you worry about; it's the extended family.

gblock

Oh screw it just watch this:

[www.youtube.com]

otakuhouse

I still think this article is excellent and I hope to see many more like it BEFORE we end up seeing worse articles that actually end with a child being raped and killed.

This all reminds me of when Gears of War first came out. I was in multiplayer when this tiniest little voice said "this game is really starting to creep me out." I said "maybe that's because you are six years old?" The tiny voice replied with shock... "how did YOU know how old I am?"

OK.... so MAYBE you think your six year old is mature enough to play a video game where you can literally chainsaw people in half without having nightmares.

But does ANY responisble parent think that their six year old is mature enough to be exposed to all of the filth you hear day in and day out on internet gaming?

I guess that even though most of today's parents grew up in the Nintendo age and beyond, most of them still view consoles as child's toys. Anything like this article that helps to make them aware of how wrong they are is a good thing, IMO.

robinandtami

@robinandtami: You can add "it doesn't matter if the person's not a child" to that list.

ratzofftoya

@ratzofftoya: "Here come the thought police..."

It's not "the thought police." It is indeed a crime to attempt to entice a child into lewd acts. It does not matter if you are successful in getting the child to agree to meet you. It does not matter if it was only talk and you never had any intention of actually going through with the meeting. It doesn't even matter if you just thought it was all a harmless joke. It's a crime and rightfully so.

robinandtami

Sorry for the double post but
@elpflasa: Something about when you said "If you have fantasies about minors, go find some like-minded adults and get your pretend freak on," one might make the argument that this is what PJ is, in some backwards sort of way. I mean, no one involved is actually a minor, not the person on the other side of the internets, and not the person who they actually meet if they show up. Not that I think it's ok, but it's a bit trickier than you'd think.

Man I'm totally gonna end up on some watch list for this.

Slap Bet

Lol I remember some guy about 5-10 years older than me (I'm 16 now, this is when I was about 15) who joined my clan and me and my friend just laughed at him behind his back and called him things like 'paedo' (short for paedophile) becuase we thought he was one, obviously he didn't know this but he's really a good man, bless him, a bit shit at resistance lol but ya' know a funny guy.

And that's the underlying point, you just have to be careful and parents should definitely be aware of the friends their children make.

Jagzthebest

@elpflasa: Sure, but 'danger' online is a very relative term. There's actually no danger online, whatsoever - none at all. There's only a potential danger online, one that becomes a real danger when it arrives in person. So with a few basic precautions you are completely, unassailably safe online - something that's not the case if you walk down the street, or attend a youth group.

Certainly parents should make sure to educate their young children about giving out personal details and what to do if they're uncomfortable etc., and that includes every online char area including Xbox Live and PSN (Wii is 'safe' regardless of friend codes, since they won't bloody let anyone talk). So a bit of care is justified, but there's nothing special about video games compared to other places where kids chat, and there's no reason for paranoia.

quen

We obviously have differing ideas on the role of law, the intensity of law, and the enforcement of law. My thoughts are this. I would prefer to suffer harsh laws, but know that child rape does not go unpunished. I would rather lose some rights in order that children have the right to grow up free from sexual violence. I don't wanna say that you're a horrible person if you disagree with me. But I do think that child rape is cause in part by a degree of neglect. And that neglect is horrible. But what's there to say. Shit happens. So it goes.

AllegraStreit

As far as the "it's not strangers we need to fear, it's the family" argument, while this is true that children are, far too often, abused by those that they know, the danger we're talking about here (i.e. a videogame site) is the danger that a stranger will solicit a child on xbox live or via a wii (man is that badly named for our discussion here) or PS3 network. Family members already have access to the child, it's the strangers who are putting children in danger online, so the "it's the family argument" is moot.

elpflasa

@elpflasa: That sounds very reasonable, but not at all like what you were saying earlier, i.e. "I hope they get raped in prison" and all that.

ratzofftoya

@quen:

I agree with you about that, and that's why I have no problems with the USA Today article. It didn't call for legislation to ban anything, it was just a clear warning to parents that videogames today are an are where there is potential for danger, so they should be aware of it and monitor their kids. Believe it or not, I am a BIG civil liberties advocate and think we should always be wary of government regulations; having said that, the best defense to regulations is education: education of parents about online dangers and education of kids about what to be wary of. I guarantee that there are waaaaaayyyyyy to many parents who think videogames are all Mario and Donkey Kong (it's why there is a stigma of "childishness" about our beloved passion), and who have no idea that their child is facing possible predators online. All it takes is one stupid neglectful parent who winds up with a child that's been molested/abducted/killed to get our legislatures whipped up into a game-banning frenzy. I DO NOT want to live in a world where Jack Thompson is the voice of reason that scared parents turn to. Wake up, game people! Education, even if its hurts our self-image a bit, is the key.

@AllegraStreit:

"I would rather lose some rights in order that children have the right to grow up free from sexual violence."

Sweet Fancy Moses, man! (or woman) The rights we have guaranteed in the Constitution, are NOT things we should give up lightly because we are scared. There are reasons we fought the American Revolution to establish a Constitution that protects our rights in society. The moment we start giving up rights, even if the danger is vast (I'm looking at you "W" and your abandonment of search and seizure law and Habeas Corpus, etc, etc, etc), is the moment we have abandoned our ideals, our society, our freedom; it's the moment we look upon the graves of all the heroes at Arlington and piss on those graves because we've abandoned all they fought and died for. There are legal, constitutional means to attack crime and put evil pedophiles behind bars, we just have to be vigilant and be aware of the dangers that do exist.

As a prosecutor, I truly, deeply love this country and all it stands for with all my heart, because I know just how much power a government can wield over its citizens, and how easily we can slip down that endless slope into fascism if we let ourselves do so.

elpflasa

@Slap Bet: Not the kinda attitude I was thinking, I do not take the viewpoint of girls get raped because of skirts too short, I am just saying that if the kid is stupid enough to give out info to people he does not know and has been warned (all parents warn their kids of it) not to give info to strangers, then they deserve to be punished, not by being picked up by some pedo, but being in trouble of some sort or scared half to death.. that works to. Both parties are at fault, but the kid should know better than to tell complete strangers identifying information.

Colt45J

@ratzofftoya:

I'm not going to lose sleep over what happens to child molesters in prison. Sorry if that bothers you, but I can live with it.

elpflasa