You can give me a checkerboard and tell me to go at it and I can pull out eight to ten hours of gameplay. That has no bearing at all on how meaningful my time spent was or how much said time would be worth, though.

Using the excuse that someone can have fun for eight to ten hours in a small section of the game is ludicrous, as the same thing could be said about any demo. The fact is, sandbox games with demos aren't unrealistic by any stretch of the imagination. That he would downplay them so matter-of-factly without realizing that Crackdown had done it and Saints Row had done it... for fuck's sake, World of Warcraft does it... speaks volumes of either blatant greed or some abysmally poor concept of marketing. Honestly, I'm not sure which is worse.

And to think that he could have just as easily said "we don't intend on having the demo because what's great about FarCry 2 is the whole experience, something that can't be contained in just a demo" and he wouldn't have sounded like a douche.

Heliophage

@WolFEnsTeiN68: OT but anyway...weird how?

ThursdayNext

I can see where they are coming from. Creating a demo that they will have to limit so severely so that they aren't just giving away the whole game. Burnouts demo was quite a gamble as a lot of people didn't like the demo at all but fell in love with the final game and that was at the less open end of the scale. No developer is going to want to hurt their sales based on a crippled demo.

I'd also rather they spent more time getting the game working properly not making demos.

Perhaps I'm just happy taking a reviewers word for it.

will

how about a 15 minute timer like the crackdown demo. you dont have to be a friggin genius to figure this one out. i mean, come on! what a lame excuse for not releasing a demo. i think its obvious that they are scared to let the public play a crappy game and risk the lose of a large number of potential buyers. ie:what happened with the last farcry.

Clint - if you are going to stand by your product nowadays, then release a demo, no excuse. figure out a way, a timer or what have you. but this to me is a sign of a bad product...

watertower

Saints Row had no problem sectioning off a small portion of the city with giant walls and letting the player only screw around in a small part of it. Crackdown gave you most of the first island. and Dead Rising gave you one of the larger plaza's to just screw around in. What are the farcry devs whining about?

Murrytmds

*how a time limit
not how time a time

sorry.

WolFEnsTeiN68

@ThursdayNext: I actually just played that demo for the first time last night. Kinda weird at first but I think I played it for about 6-7 hours last night.
I don't understand how time a time limit couldn't be put into a demo.

WolFEnsTeiN68

Heh, talk about shooting yourselves in the foot. I typically buy a brand new game only if there's a demo to make sure it runs on my machine. In addition to time limits, they can take out every gun except a pea-shooting pistol and a rifle or something. As it is, I'll wait until this one's 15 bucks on Amazon before I risk it.

For me the demo is purely about addressing technical issues. Reviews then help me decide if the rest of the game is worth it.

greyhoundbus

piracy will definitely solve the demo problem anyways ._.

infi

@JRB: Awe win! I miss full episode demos. Ten levels or more; these days you'd be lucky to find that in an entire game. When I was a kid I scarcely knew the difference between "shareware" and "full version".

And what ever happened to OEM versions? You know, when you could pay like, ten bucks to get an extended demo of a game like Deus Ex or Gran Turismo 5. The biggest problem with those is that they'd often be labeled something like "special edition" when really it was a "special demo edition" or something; but if it's clearly labeled it might turn a profit and still give the consumer conscious gamer what they want.

NeoStarr

@JRB:
Of course I remember Apogee. BLAKE STONE #@$@#$$% Apogee made some great cames back in the early 90's.

Eville1

I find it odd that it's generally the longer games that don't have demos. Shouldn't it be the other way around? I mean, if a game's asking me to invest an ungodly amount of hours into it, it'd be good to know whether or not I'll enjoy them.

Obviously I have no firm data on this, but I am sure that not releasing a demo just makes it more likely for people to rent it - and surely the drop-off rate is higher then. It's far more likely that someone will get their fill from a rental period than from a demo.

frostcircus

@bysty: My thoughts exactly. "8. No... 10. NO... 12 HOURS!" No...an ENTIRE FRIGGIN GAME!

Look at the Bad Company demo. A single player section AND a multiplayer map that has persistent stats so you can get the (almost) full experience for free. There are plenty of people on that demo who have racked up a great many hours.

ThursdayNext

what´s the problem ? as if anyone here won't give it a "try" for free anyway.

IroKuMata

The Crackdown demo did fine

DarkHavoc99

@Werrick: 8/12 = 2/3

It's not that big a deal, for the most part you know what you're getting with this one.

Tetelestia

"...potentially right there eight-to-ten hours of gameplay..."
"...to give away a 12-hour game for free."

Guess he isn't the bestest at math...

WolFEnsTeiN68

@Werrick: @ShirtGuyDom: It's because of the confusing language that Clint Hocking uses to cover his lies. He is saying that:

1) The sandbox section that the interviewer has played is approximately 8-10 hours of gameplay.
2) If they gave away the demo they would be giving away 8-10 hours of demo gameplay.
3) Clint compares this to giving away a different full game that is 12 hours long for free.

ThursdayNext

With some rare exceptions based upon strong recommendation by friends or extreme research through articles. I don't buy games unless there is a demo to play or I can try them first in some other way.

Companies not releasing demos is just laziness and it decreases their sales. On the other hand I've played demos to games I thought I would have liked and hated them. So I guess it could go both ways.

sluissa

8. No... 10. NO... 12 HOURS!

bysty

@ShirtGuyDom:

In the quote, in the article, it gave me the impression that the game was 12 hours. I suppose I may have missed something and taken it out of context.

Werrick

I've played demos for way more than 8 hours.

Anyone remember Apogee?

JRB

I'd rather have a great finished product then a decent demo. If the game is completely unlike what it seems during previews the reviews can often filter out the bad stuff.

sammfreak

@CCCombobreaker: Agreed. I almost forgot that Crackdown had a time limit. It was just a lot of fun for the little bit of time they gave you. I don't see why they couldn't give you a section of the game and then some time limits.

Salen

@Werrick: Where do you get the game is 12 hours? It's more like 50, according to a recent presentation they gave.

ShirtGuyDom

Now Ubisoft is going to have to rely on reviews to sway decisions to buy this. Not a great idea, as I personally like to test drive my games before I make a final say.

Here's hoping it's gonna be good.

Tyber_Zann

Perhaps this is their way of announcing their 'demo', will be the usual method of early game revenue generation, without having to admit it.

"The pre-release paid beta."

Viva la Gamespy!

Shockeh

Wait... they don't want to give us a demo because they can't make it less than 8 hours?

And because the game is only 12 hours long, they don't want to give us 3/4 of the game...

Well, my decision to not buy this game no longer rests with the idea that I can't try it, and everything to do with my complete lack of faith in the developer to design a game properly.

Seriously... they can't just lop off a slice?

Werrick

@CCCombobreaker: And the demo was the reason I bought Crackdown! Give us 30 minutes to romp around in Far Cry 2, and if the product's good, then that should be just enough time to whet gamers' whistles and get them on board. Come on, Ubisoft.

peAr nectAr

@SinisterSkull: I kind of agree with the Dead Rising sentiment. Almost all of the best stuff was in the demo.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I bought it, but other than a couple of areas, the rest of the mall couldn't hold a candle to the first plaza.

ShaggE

long tutorial with a 1 hour time limit.

mentalboy11

Poor Show.

ThursdayNext

That's just an excuse to be lazy, that or they probably also think their game is shit.

Syco Killer

@SinisterSkull: Crysis and Far Cry 2 are completely different. Are you serious? Far Cry 1 and Crysis - Yes, but not Far Cry 2.

Hobb3z

Well if that's the case, to Ubisoft I say:
Don't expect a Far Cry 2 purchase.

Elliuotatar

Crackdown had a time limit, so can far cry 2.

CCCombobreaker

If I'd realized it, I'd have just kept playing the Dead Rising demo instead of shelling out 60$. Most likely Crysis, I mean Far Cry 2 would be the same.

SinisterSkull

The original Doom gave away a full third of their game for free.
Why have we moved backwards since then?

Sofox

A demo would be nice but I don't feel the developers have to adjust to anything. What has to be adjusted is this out-of-control sense of entitlement. let the market forces feel this out. I also hate having developers loose 6 to 8 months in the development cycle to make a demo or even worse, having to develop a game with intentional restriction to be able to turn on the demo switch down the line... it happens folks!

okenny :)

farcry 1 was SO boring, there's no way I'd touch this without a demo. Oh well.

kidko

@DashTheHand: @hotdamn: Easily confused though, Crytek Crysis, FarCry, Cry-about-how-crap-my-PC-is-and-use-poor-hardware-as-an-excuse-for-theft...(I think the last one was the working title of FarCry2)

ThursdayNext

I'm buying it no matter what. The game looks amazing and I highly doubt it plays like crap, judging from the gameplay I've seen.

Also, the fact that it's a bit of an alternate reality game is awesome. I hear 1 minute in the game is 5 minutes in real life. Dynamic weather, day/night cycles, you can shoot even the smallest leaf off a tree, etcetera.

Candlejack

@DashTheHand: no, thats crytek

hotdamn

Bands are releasing they're hard worked music (radiohead, nine inch nails, girl talk) why can't games start doing the same?

Aparanoidandroi

Aren't these the same people bitching that people are pirating Crysis too much? If I don't know what the game will play like, or if my machine will handle it - WITH A DEMO - then it will either be passed on or pirated.

DashTheHand

I second the Crackdown comments. I had no expectations, but the demo blew me away and made me buy the game. A time limit should do it - if the game's good, of course.

kryo

@Syco Killer: You obviously know zero about game development. Making demos, even for non open world games, takes a lot of time and effort. There's always some sort of crunch that goes with it. Developers also have to take into account that time spent creating, testing, fixing and polishing a demo is all time spent away from making the main game.

Warbuff6644

Dont expect a buy then Clint.

TakuFangirl

@watertower: I think it might be because it's more than likely to be less than those 15 minutes before someone cracked it, uploaded the exe and tens of thousands of players were snaffling it from that site to do with game, copying and world. :)

Time limits are a nice idea. PC gamers aren't a nice bunch of people, from a developmental viewpoint.

Shockeh

Yep bought Crackdown based on the demo. The original Grand Theft Auto was a sandbox game with a time limited one city demo... also the reason I bought the game (pre press hype).

Interesting, both by the same people...

This is just a weak excuse.

David Whitney

Um, a timed demo. It has worked for other sandbox games...

HaydenTenno

Demos are so 1990s, time to put out a "multiplayer beta" instead.

hahnchen

Piracy is the new demo! .. it was the old demo too, but now we have a real valid reason to do so. >.>

Cosmitz

here's the thing. The game is designed with 50km of streaming terrain. To give a time limit would quite literally mean you have to download nearly the entire game, only to have someone edit out the limit later.

Not to mention the severe pain in the ass it would be to make a cut down version of the game considering there is no one level.

The team is most likely on crunch time right now and simply don't have the time to make a demo.

Flyingdebris

@Warbuff6644:

That is an acceptible excuse, time constraints. But he mentions nothing of the sort. All he talks about is not being able to grant a demo without the user having, essentially, too much fun without paying them, and moves on into talking about how they just dropped 100 people into QA.

Couldn't part of that same team be focused on a portion of the game or certain aspects of the game to polish a time trial or geographically limited demo?

It seems more like they don't want to rather than they aren't able to.

Heliophage

@Whiternoise: On the 360 and PS3? oook?

y2julio

Them refusing to release a demo just goes to show that they are worried about how people will react to the game. If Crackdown easily put out a demo I don't see why they can't do one for Far Cry 2.

y2julio

I suspect they don't want to do a time limit because people will just hack it, i mean it'd get cracked within a day, face it..

Whiternoise

He's right.

I downloaded the burnout paradise demo before the game came out and had a blast barrel-rolling down the little bit of beach that they gave you online with my friends

When i got the full game though i wasn't really as into as i had been with the demo. I felt like i'd already done the things i wanted and i was bored of it after a week or two

So in my opinion they are doing the right thing with far cry 2

ps. i was also pissed off at how big the open world was in burnout paradise with no warp system

tigrshark

Maybe I was taught Mathematics all wrong, but since when has 12 been between 8 and 10??

Dayvie

I guess the gameplay really is strictly free-form. Crackdown was able to give us a demo, games of FC2 caliber does seem daunting for a demo.

Its ok, I will be too busy cutting down trees and whatnot when the retail hits.

PsycheE

@HaydenTenno:

But then you're just downloading the whole game. The file size will be huge, and again, spending all that time getting the demo working when the final game should be receiving the full focus. Plus, seeing as your downloading the entire game, even with a timer on it, you can bet that you'll be seeing some of that lovely anti piracy software, which of course you'll complain about. It makes no sense from any perspective if you ask me.

will

@kidko: Um, besides the name and use of guns, this has nothing to do with what Far Cry 1 was like.

Ubi only calls this Far Cry 2 because they own the franchise and want it to be a known title rather than a completely new one. Honestly. Check out some material on this game and you'll understand.

Far Cry 1 was divided in sections and faked an open world, this game truly is an open world like GTA. You can go around wherever you want at any time you want and take on missions however you want from whoever you want.

Candlejack

The timed demo in an invisible walled space would be a perfectly acceptable solution.

They just don't want to program it!

sir_carrot

For me, very few games get bought without some sort of trial for me. You have to come from a pretty amazing pedigree to be bought unseen.

Example: Bethesda + Fallout license = buy
Ubisoft = try it first
Lionhead = potential buy if I have cash on hand (I dug the hell out of Fable 1, say what you will)
Rockstar games = long weekend rental
Ken Levine games = buy

Note that a company's or producer's "Buy without trial" status is immediately revoked after the first time I think, "Maybe I could have rented this"

Numerous

The demo for crackdown was great, the time limit pretty much set it straight for you. I dont see why they cant do that for Far Cry 2?

Altima NEO

Since "try before you buy" is enshrined in provincial consumer law where I live, it's either demo, or torrent.

Raveness

The Saint's Row guys managed to box in a small amount of city and give players a taste of the game. The Crackdown guys put in a time limit to ensure you don't see too much of the game.

Far Cry had better have the most dense set of things to do for me to believe this is anything more than either a) an excuse for not making a demo or b) an excuse for not making a demo because the game isn't very good.

photoboy

No demo means people pirating the game to see if it even works. But then, making demos costs a lot, so they probably thought about this

FTH

@Hobb3z: We shall see, I guess. Or not since there won't be a demo.

SinisterSkull

Just follow the Crackdown formula; speed up the progress of your character and make all the gear available. Give the player a taste of the entire game and just jam a time limit on it.

chenry

Bah. I personally loved the Iron Man demo, but the nine-minute time limit was just plain stupid. Even still, I got a good sense of the feel of the game, got used to the controls, and might even get it now that I have my own PS3.

Since there's not enough HDD space on my computer for even a demo, my feelings are thus:

Moar PSN demo = Moar gud.

man in gauze is king ramses II, silly.

RE: Time limit

The problem with that is if this is the only restriction, all the game data for the retail game would be included with the demo.

To achieve the full game experience, one would only have to find a way to remove the time limit. This could conceivably be done in a very, very small and easily distributed crack.

Crackdown was released on a platform that made this prohibitive to the average user. A 360 user would have a much harder time applying unofficial code to their game than would a PC user.

liquidnumb

no demo, no buy. I guess I'm the boss.

karateka

@verrius:

Alternatively, many would like to know whether or not 'recommended system requirements' will get you an acceptable frame rate. What is acceptable tends to differ between games and users.

liquidnumb

For everyone saying "wah no demo means they suck I'm not touching it it will fail", there seems to be another open world game that came out recently without a demo that did rather well (GTA4)...there wasn't a huge brouhaha that *that* didn't have a demo, or even if there was my memory is terrible, it didn't seem to affect sales too much...

Be glad that instead of wasting time on *trying* to figure out how to make a good demo, they're spending that time on making a better game.

verrius

"I don't know too many people who are willing to give away a 12-hour game for free."

aka fuck you guys, and give me your money.

if_deez

@karateka:
I won't buy without a demo either.

I guess I'm the boss, too!

liquidnumb

There is only do.

Spartan1308™

A time limit worked with DMC4 and a limited sized level. Just figure how far a person can get in 10 minutes, and enclose that area in the demo.

Talleh

There are so many ways around this issue that I'm not going to buy Far Cry 2.

Uh oh!

stuminus3

@Candlejack: To whoever believes the "1 minute in the game is 5 minutes in real life" quote, please wake the hell up. The guy was having serious difficulty speaking English. 1 minute game time = 5 minute real time means one day in the game lasts 5 days in real life. You really think thats how they made it? They're making a big deal out of night/day cycles, and you think they're going to put only one in the game?

J3EBS

@verrius: GTA is a proven series, people know what they are getting like Numerous comment in his comment. Far Cry 2 isn't being made by the original studio. People need to know what they are getting before buying.

y2julio

So that means the full game will be like 500+ hours.

BitKid

Hocking's a fool, GTA was released with a demo, and I seem to recall those games did quite well.

mrrobsa

Don't worry Clint, I'll torrent your new 'demo' right away.

Mayu-mayu

I thought Crackdown did a good job on their demo.

CyberSkull

are these guys actually that retarded? Seriously, how hard is it to section off a piece of the game, really??????? Is it just me or does it seem like forbidden fruit still to release a demo????? I don't get it?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

freespeech