@FenderMaster: Not true about KH2 and Okami. You can check the backwards compatibility of PS2 games on 80 gig PS3s here: [www.us.playstation.com]
You'll notice that both of those games are listed as having "no major issues". And I can attest that Okami runs perfectly on my 80 gig MGS4-bundled PS3.

umcloud

@jtyson: The PS2 is probably a LOT cheaper to make than that $129 price point suggests. I think Sony is leaning heavily upon the fat profit they make off the PS2 hardware to offset PS3 losses. Like you say though, clearly not peanuts to make though.

Nogib

Continues to devolve is more like it. Har har.

KaneRobot

Not having BC in a PS3 is pretty ridiculous.

shichi

@Monsignor:guess they forgot to "phase out" PS 1 game BC

@jtyson: Sony execs have stated in interviews that the removal of BC was ENTIRELY a method to drum up PS3 software sales. the manufacturing cost savings were something like ten bucks? do you actually think the retail cost of an 8 year old ps2 in ANY WAY accurately reflects it's manufacturing costs?

I'm glad you're happy with your consoles, but the newest playstation that doesn't play old playstation games? that's not a playstation at all.

StratfordX

Why would I need a 60GB Blu-Ray player? ... What? ... It plays games? Hahaha, surely you jest! ...

karmaghost

@macr0planet: Current 80 gig is NOT getting a price cut. Current 40 gig is getting an upgrade. Huge difference.

mfwahwah

Whoa, why is Kaz throwing up West Side? That's... kind of awkward.

Uzumaki_Kiba

@jtyson:

actually the PS2 bc chip was phased out of U.S. PS3's in favour of software emulation, and European PS3's always had software emulation

And last i checked games like Kingdom Hearts 2 and Okami, arent compatible with software emulation PS3's

anyway, BC is very cheap via this method, but has lower compatibility

FenderMaster

okay is it only me that has noticed that whilst they are replacing the 40gb models with the 80gb models the current 40gb are going to be exactly the same price as the 80gb until they have all been sold?

teeps1981

@InsidiousTuna:

PS3 shizzle for the izzle!

Beyotch!

EnigmaNemesis

I keep seeing people writing about how much they would like to see backwards compatibility in the new model. I believe Sony tried that model already.

It was the 60GB PS3. It cost $599. If you jog your memory banks, you'll remember that it didn't exactly light the retail world on fire, either.

Sony removed the chip set and was able to drop the price to something reasonable, and it must have been a smart move because the PlayStation 3's sales are up tremendously since they did so. Obviously, there are far more people who are willing to purchase a PS3 to play PS3 games than people who will only purchase one that can also play PS2 games.

Some people may argue that Sony could still keep the chip set (which consists of the Emotion Engine and the Graphics Synthesizer) inside the PlayStation 3 without effecting the price, but I would argue that if the PS2 still retails for $129.99 then the manufacturing costs aren't quite peanuts.

Basically, what I'm saying is that Sony had to make an executive decision: Keep the chip set and the high price, or drop the chip set and the price. They made their decision, and it's the reality that we all must accept. If you think about it, it's the smartest move Sony could have made, given the circumstances.

I also think that streamlining their SKUs to include ONE SINGLE MODEL with a more-than-adequate HDD (while keeping the lowered price) is an even smarter move. But then, I'm not much of a complainer.

jtyson

I actually just bought a 1TB hard drive and a PS3 hdxt, looking forward to setting it up tomorow.

Chances are i'll prolly trade my old 60gig drive to a friend for his 40gig

hamandcheeseUK

yeah, i dont think most consumers give much of a shit about HD capcacity - i mean, i got the 60 GB and still have 15 gigs left after dumping all kinds of music, videos etc. Granted, these HD installs might not keep that going for long, but we'll see.

point is? the 40 gig is not good 'cause you took out BC, and from what ive seen (granted just my perspective) even the average consumer's not overly pleased with that. its not a niche issue.

TheIrishNinja

For a second i thought he was throwin the finger

NessD12

@yashichi8bit:

Placing a new hard drive in the PS3 does not void your warranty.

sascha23

Still mum on BC.

What gives?

sir_carrot

@Monsignor: Yeah, I didn't want it either, but then my PS2 blew up. And I'm not buying another one & a PS3. No sale.

Salen

^^

Yeah, same with me. I got my 40 gig and buy all multiplatform games for my 360 also. At least we can upgrade if the need arises.

Assassin9

No backwards compatibility? Boo! Luckily, I don't need another PS3. I have my BC! :)

HaydenTenno

i'm getting a 40GB PS3. i'm just gonna keep my PS2.

psgamer92

I bought a 40gig 2 months ago and it seems to be big enough... I'll only own 2-3 games for my PS3 at a time since all multi will go to 360 I won't have very many installed games taking up space.

Murderdolls

@Candlejack: Oh. Well yeah...that makes sense. Whoops.

Saint Anima

@yashichi8bit: Nope. You can freely switch out the hard drive whenever you want for a new one. Even has instructions in the manual.

Saint Anima

@yashichi8bit: Opening it up DOES void the warranty.

Good thing you don't have to open it to swap the HDD ;) Google it, tutorials are all over the place.

Candlejack

I honestly wonder why they don't have the backwards compatibility on the 40gb, isn't it software emulation? I figure they could patch that in or something.

Talleh

Does opening up the PS3 not void the warrantee?

I ask because I really dont know

yashichi8bit

I don't know why you guys are still hung up with this Backward Compatibility garbage. I seen a survey somewhere that said that only 4.5% of PS3 owners (capable of BC)actually use BC. So many people want it, but when they finally get it, they never use it. Sony knows this, so they are phasing it out. Same goes for the Xbox.

Monsignor

Awww. That's nice of you Kaz. You're so friendly. I think I m-WAIT A MINUTE. Where's my PS2 BC? :D

No seriously, may this be an indication hinting at a firmware update that allows PS2 emulation on 40/new-80GB consoles? My 250GB PS3 sure would be happy!

Candlejack

So, when can I get my Backwards Compatibility? I don't wanna have to shell out 130 something bucks just so I can play my old stuff because my PS2 decided to bite the bullet.

Salen

Did he really think people believed the larger hard drive meant the system could do more things? I'm confused.

wild homes desires a pudding!

if they really wanted to expand the playability of a PS3, they'd put the emotion chip back in

Zombie_Moogle

pretty reasonable, I think. of, course the swapping has to be free... right?
well, at least they have a hard-drive...

laencythe

Gotta love how easy it is to swap out the PS3's harddrive. Recently upgraded mine to a 250 gig myself.

weasl

That's good for PS3 users.

I wish Microsoft would let me hook up different hard drives to my 360, oh well.

I guess it's good that they are lowering the price of the 80gb PS3 to $400, how long will they keep lowering the price of these suckers?

macr0planet

Makes sense. Before people scream about dropping prices instead of upgrading hard drive space, remember that the cost of capacity is not linear; a 80GB does not cost twice as much as a 40GB drive, and given the cost of production and economies of scale, the 80GB is probably cheaper to make than the 40GB at this point.

Datheron

just gimme a BC pal PS3 or go whistle Hirai!

wellsie_eng

Don't you flash those gang symbols at me, sir. I don't condone that sort of conduct.

InsidiousTuna

I upgraded my 60GB to 320GB and threw linux on there just because I could. It has all the card inputs and plays PS2 titles... meanwhile my kids friends keep losing there 360's to the RROD. Come on MS, get a reliable product out there and I will buy it.

I know Sony had a rough launch as some are saying, but the product is solid and the games keep coming (Elefunk has my attention now). Plus with a Blue-Ray player and PSP compatibility it is a one of a kind gaming package out there (Think MAC/ Ipod). You can buy a movie online and transfer it to up to 3 PSP and still have it on your PS3.

I am totally happy with mine! Keep up the good work Sony!!!

Awoken

@umcloud:

thats great, sorry I havent checked for over 6 months, they werent working last September, but its cool that its been updated

@verrius:

ah, i see...

i wonder if it'd be possible to emulate the CPU & GPU too...

FenderMaster

hhahahhhahahahhah hahahhah ahh hahhahhahahahHAHAHAH. sorry but this whole BC thing is funny. I bought my 60gb PAL ps3 on the first day and was ridiculed for being an early adopter, NOW WHO HAS THE LAST LAUGH.

mmm playing mgs3s gets me all warm and fuzzy inside.

anyway wouldnt removing BC make sense considering Sony are still selling the ps2 revamed and doing well at it.

GFX-187

@Datheron:

I know what you mean, I mean you can't even find 32MB flash drives anymore. Even though they would be dirt cheap, the cost to start making them again would probably make them cost more than a 2GB flash drive.

jitty9

@jtyson: Sony removed the software PS2 emulation just so that PS3 owners would buy more PS3 games instead of superior (at the time) PS2 games. Europe has never had hardware BC. I enjoyed reading your unresearched speculation, though. I would probably have assumed the same if I had no interest in territories outside NA and hadn't been following the PS2 BC saga. :)

PenguinJim

@Arttemis: Exactly! Now you see the light!!!

*let's out a weak sounding "yheeeey"*

Aex

I have BC and used it once. Not really that sympathetic to the hoards of internet moaners because most of them were the same ones who thought it so damn funny people actually bought a launch system. That said I don't doubt Sony will add software emulation to all playstations at some point in the future.

proust

Wheres the 40GB price drop to clear it off the shelves then?

LeLoi

@Aex: Of course!
Sure it made "business sense"... they removed an already existing feature from a slower-selling item so they could continue selling their purely profitable, nearly-decade-old PS2s.

What a positively great thing for Sony to do!

(Note: I love the PS3 and its software library - both current and future - but this little bit angers me)

Arttemis

@FenderMaster: The "software emulation" of the PAL 80 Gig and other models is actually a software-hardware hybrid. The PS2 support in the BC 60 gig consists of the Emotion Engine (CPU) and the Graphics Synthesizer (GPU) of the PS2. The "software emulation" was to use the Cell to emulate the Emotion Engine, but the chip for the Graphics Synthesizer was still left in. In the current, BC-less consoles, Graphics Synthesizer was also removed, to lower cost the cost to manufacture the console.

verrius

@jtyson:

That kind of logic fails so hard. I don't buy launch systems and I know many, many people who don't. The 60gb model wasn't out for long at all, the price is what made it fail terribly, this much is true, but it wasn't that people didn't want BC, it's that it just wasn't worth it to buy a PS3.

Really of all the launch systems I found the PS3 the least worthwhile with mediocre titles at launch and only a few decent ones on the upcoming horizon. Now that I can see myself getting a PS3 in the near future (or at some point anyway) I'm going to have to buy a used 60gb because I don't want what they have to offer. Which means Sony makes $0 off of me.

Letiumtide

Hmm, I don't quite get it. When MS or Sony does something that makes business sense, people jump all over them with insults. Yet, when Nintendo does it, people begin to kneel and fel... well, you get the picture.

Removing Backwards Compatibility made business sense (who knows what that sense is, but it makes it!) Or at least it didn't hurt making Business Sense...yet, Where is the praise!

(Personally, I don't care, I have a 60gb :P, it is just a topic that constantly comes up and this is a small observation I come across each time)

Aex

I own a 20GB, and I laugh at 40GB and heck, even 80GB owners.

Not really. But I feel sorry for those who didn't get a launch system. Usually a company upgrades their features after launch, not downgrades.

Scuba Steve

@wellsie_eng: What he said. I'd really like some BC.

Zeouterlimits

Two words:

Backwards Compatibility

Kenninator

If they ever remove BC from my 80GB there will be hell to pay.
It's crazy to phase it out like they are, if not for the fact they're selling more PS2s than they expected. Greedy bastards...

fuchikoma

@FenderMaster: IIRC, it (the PS2 emulator) gets updated with pretty much every firmware release. So every time a new firmware comes out, there's a good chance that they've updated the BC.

PS - I really wish people would stop acting like the 80GB PS3 doesn't currently exist and have backwards compatibility. It might not be 100%, but it's pretty good.

hodayathink: I like neo-noir lesbians

Yeah I turned my 60 Gig PS3 to a 250 Gig beast.

Strider-No.9

@Aex:

What are you talking about? That's entirely inaccurate.

Nintendo's smart business plan: Cater to the masses instead of the traditional market.

Feedback: every single traditional gamer felt the need to bitch their asses off at them. Very little kneeling and praise present.

Sony's smart business move: Remove HARDWARE emulation to lower PS3 costs to a reasonable price.

Feedback: Minor annoyances, but 60 GB is still available via Ebay and 80 GB still plays some games.

Sony's dumbass business move: Now that the production cost of the PS3 is cheaper eliminate BC thus alienating many potential customers and millions of potential PS2 game sales.

Feedback: I'll just get a 360 then since there's not much on the PS3 worth buying one for. Especially with most of the RPG's & FPS's of this gen on the 360 and now FFXIII even.

NeoAkira

Stick those finger where the sun doesn't shine, i'm so dissapointed in you sony.

Cchrist

I wonder if Hirai get's dizzy with all the spinning he is doing.

It is funny he talks up all the changes to the PS3 as good thing because its able to evolve. The PS2 and PS never had to evolve, certainly not as much as the PS3. As many evolutions the PS3 has gone through it really hasn't amounted to much.

I don't think the Playstation network needs even 40GB, the only real reason for so much disk space on the PS3 is for game installs before the bluray drive is too slow to stream off discs because it was made for playing movies, not games.

I like how he says "We thought it was a great time to introduce it at E3..." Wonder if they are thinking it was a great time to announce the death of BC at E3 now. Looks like Sony is having second thoughts and Hirai is doing damage control.

NullsRevenge

@jtyson:Sony removed BC to make people buy PS2's along with their PS3's. There's no defending such a outright stab in the customer's back and the whole "Should have bought it while it was out." is a stupid angle to take. How many other past game systems have -lost- features as the system gets older?

@fuchikoma:Get ready for the reports of people sending in 20's, 60's and 80's for repair, only to get back a newer system, not the one they sent in. You know it's coming.

Foxstar Sixtail

*hugs 60 GB PS3*
What's that girl? You say you want to play Persona 3, just because you can? Sounds good to me... :P

ProdigalMoon

if you want bc how about buying the metal gear bundle b4 they run out. and if you don't want to buy it do btch about it.

Servant_of_Jashin

@okenny :): wait, you lost me. why would consumers only think they wanna play their older games, much less the PS2, a system still receiving new ones?
i mean, if i had a 40 gig right now, my new MGS Essentials would be a waste (except for MGS1) and my waiting on Persona 4 would be all for naught.

TheIrishNinja

I think if a lack of BC keeps the price down and the consumers happy then all the better, but I'm not following this issue too closely since I have a 60 gig launch ps3 which I only played ps2 games on because of the lack of titles within the first year. Now, however, I have enough ps3 titles to keep me more than content.

SolidOni

I'd be more interested if he said, "Don't worry 40GB owners, we aren't giving the 80GB an backwards compatibility either."

BergeGuy

@Awoken: I'm sure that in the presence of RROD that any news sounds good to most but people get tired of it after a while. I don't want to call your use of it played-out so I'll just say this: The cake is a lie.

Yup... that eyes rolling into the back of your head is how your statement made me feel but I do agree with you that MS needs to do more to show they have models out there that have beaten this bug. The chances of them stamping a "Here's the good one" sticker on things is about similar to the chances of people bring up RROD on every PS3 story imaginable.

...

I echo the sentiment expressed by some here that people don't really need BC, they just think they do.

okenny :)

@Whyspir:

The MGS bundle did have PS2 BC. The 80GB at least. There was also a limited edition gunmetal one, which did not.

LittleBigPlaneteer

WTF is it with consoles and tiny ass hard drives? You know how hard it is to even buy a 40GB SATA 2.5" drive anymore? Damn near impossible. Who the hell knows where they were even getting the 20GB ones. The manufacturing costs of single platter drives are about the same no matter what the actual capacity is.

I guess it makes sense that they would point to a stat like hard drive size being a big deal while they bleed features out of the thing left and right.. Anyone who needs to store a significant amount of media on their PS3 has probably already spent the $50 to pop in a 250GB drive.

John Laur

@TheIrishNinja: Pfft... who plays Metal Gear? >.>

Don't play Persona... watch the anime... it's awesome ^_^

okenny :)

@Foxstar Sixtail:
That's the truth - but I wonder what they will do about the otherwise easily recoverable savegames. Since it's just software maybe they'll keep BC if there are saves present and steal it if it hasn't been used yet...

I'm going to be really optimistic and say they'll probably let you keep it if you bought it, but won't be putting it back in until the PS2 is "retrogaming."

fuchikoma

I thought the Metal Gear Bundle didn't have BC?

From what I remember, they said they weren't ever doing BC because, and I paraphrase: "A 40 gig PS3, and a PS2 combined is cheaper to buy than a 60 gig PS3 with BC."

I think it was Kaz himself that said that back when the original 80 and 40 were launching after the 20 went on the outs.

Whyspir

@ProdigalMoon: Highfive! I have an unnatural, deep and profound love for my sixty gig.

Chances

Servant_of_Jashin said: "if you want bc how about buying the metal gear bundle b4 they run out. and if you don't want to buy it do btch about it."

I agree.

Jutah_F8

@weasl: How do you keep your game saves and content when you upgrade? Can you transfer that stuff to SD cards?

Spartan1308™

I'm so glad I got my 60GB PS3 on day 1. I just upgraded the HDD to a 320GB.

WGSXFrank

@FenderMaster: Not entirely true. Even the PS3s that used software emulation contained one of the two chips (can't remember exactly which one it was).

@StratfordX: @Letiumtide: @PenguinJim: @Foxstar Sixtail: I suppose it's only coincidence that the price drop of the PlayStation 3 just happened to coincide with the removal of the PS2 chip set. The Sony execs can use whatever excuse they want, but then who's being naive?

If you honestly believe that removing the PS2 chip set isn't the primary reason that Sony was able to justify the price drop, then I'm dying to know what you think the real reason is.

PenguinJim, I'm assuming you've researched this (because my dumb ass obviously hasn't), so please do make your answer nice and long.

jtyson

with all the mandatory installs, a 80GB harddrive is much needed. Anyway, the new 80GB is exactly the old 40GB PS3 with 40GB more.

mcool93

@Monsignor

Um... I don't know what (made-up) survey you're talking about, but I use my Backwards Compatibility ALL THE TIME. Both PS2 and PS1. So your information (and Sony's) is WRONG.

Don't be fooled into believing Sony's swinging baloney. That information is some made-up crap they've been trying to sell us --- just so they could remove BC in the first place. Which is completely stupid, and is going to byte them in the ass down the road.

I am so sick of people TELLING me what I want from my console, and what I don't need. Shut-up.

- I bought the 60GB PS3 BECAUSE of the BC.
- I don't WANT 2 machines, when 1 will do.
- I don't want to deal with a bunch of piddley little memory cards, when I have a 320GB drive that can do the same thing bigger and better.
- And when my PS3 breaks, I want it replace with the SAME DAM MODEL, not a lower one.

Christ, can say it any clearer.

jamBot

"We thought it was a great time to introduce it at E3, but also make sure that we continued to keep the pricing the same."

Awesome. I don't know what the world would have done if you'd raised the cost of the system ONE PERCENT. (There's only a $4 difference between a 40GB drive and an 80GB drive on newegg.) You truly are the world's greatest humanitarian, Kaz.

Blain

And just to clarify, I was looking at laptop drives, not desktop drives.

the only 40GB they even carry

the 80GB drives, lowest price first

Blain

I got my 60gb at the pwnshop BC ftw

Rojovenom

When the manufacturer reassures you that the device you just bough isn't obsolete, isn't that the first sign that it actually is?

Purple Dave

@GFX-187: I bought my 60gig when the price dropped to £350 to clear the way for 40gig PS3. I think that my timing is pretty much as perfect as it could have been. Go me! :)

ThursdayNext

@Monsignor:Stop fucking giving %'s and shitty reasoning for a developer fucking people up the ass without lube. It's the most annoying thing on here, right next to "RROD HURRRRRRRRR" that has become a meme of epic fail levels.

No amount of damage control you play for Sony can make up for them removing a feature so they can make money on it in a older system.

Foxstar Sixtail

@fuchikoma:I have a 60 gig. So not only am I sweating bullets over the repair cost (The normal seems to be 120 dollars) but much like the 360, not getting back the system I own. With the 360, it's not that big of a deal, a new Pro with a HDMI port would make me perfectly happy. With the PS3, getting a 80 gig in return for my 60 would make me very angry.

60 Gig PS3's also will have the best resell value out of all the systems for years to come, count on it. As more people find out what the 20's and 60 gigs can do, their resell value will climb to match it because it's not space, it's the chipset.

Foxstar Sixtail

@jtyson:They removed the chipset because of two reasons.

-People weren't buying PS3 software. They were buying PS2 games still and good old Howard even said "We could have left it alone, but we want people to move on to the PS3 and for that, they need to stop playing the PS2.

-They clearly have gotten the PS2 chipset cheap enough so that they are making a good amount of money off of system sales. Hell they even proclaimed as much at E3! That's why there's 140 PS2 games still in development isn't it?

The first price drop happened because buzzards were circling and licking their lips. If Sony had not dropped it's price last year when it did, they would have suffered greatly. The first price drop happened because everyone from the fans and devs were screaming at them "DROP YOUR FUCKING PRICES, DICKS." The systems then sold because people saw the future and it was a future where BC is half done or not at all. It's why I made my move, cashed in my 300 dollars of trade in credit along with 200 something dollars of birthday money and moved on up, because I knew nothing like the 20 and 60 gig systems would ever be done again, when Sony removes features, they stay gone.

Foxstar Sixtail

@Cchrist: Two in the front, one in the back. Apparently.

Protector one

@karmaghost: So, are you making a joke about superior functionality?

I just bought the 40GB version, and the announcement at E3 was a bit of a let down, but then I remembered watching a YouTube video of someone switching out the HD and mentioning it didn't void the warranty. All was better.

I'm not so concerned with BC, after all, I can just flip on the PS2.

Omnimon

@jtyson: People just love to have their cake and eat it.

On another note, you don't 'need' to buy a new ps2 from the store. You can if you like, but if you would rather not spend the money for a new one, a old ps2 (fat or slim) are like 40-60$(CND) used. They might even be cheaper now, I saw those prices a year and a half ago. Sure having BC compatibility on a ps3 would be great, but it's not like the ps2 is rare or anything.

sereal

@jtyson: I think it is peanuts(ps2 and chipset costs) at this economy of scale and they are making money hand over foot on the ps2 hardware at that price... but they can save money by not including those components...

I have a 60gb with full hw bc and paid like 400 for it.. I'm happy...

@Foxstar Sixtail: you're probably right about software sales being a reason as well, but they are still making tons of money on ps2 software sales... and probably more percentage wise than ps3 , but they need ps3 software sales... I agree

Ehardergardens

@wild homes desires a pudding!: Some people aren't as knowledgeable as you may be...

Courage_Dog

I'd rather see actual price drops than storage space upgrades, I imagine the 140 million other ps2 owners would agree.

cookiesareafriend

It's just a little undersized, it's still good, it's still good!

PlayItBogart

I'm very dissapointed that Sony phased out backwards compatability from their PS3. I was able to get the old 80 GB which does have b/c.

However, plenty of my friends want a PS3 but the fact it's almost impossible to find a b/c PS3 are turning them off PS3 and on to 360.

To be honest I'm happy about that, it's so much easier to stay in touch with friends over XBL than PSN.

Lukems

Maybe it's me, but considering the PS3 has input lag when playing PS1 and PS2 games (source: [www.avsforum.com]) I think it's better that Sony junked BC on the PS3. I like to play fighters, and input lag really shows off my timing in those games. This also affects really timing-sensitive genres like music games, and any game with a kicking/swinging meter.

Besides, if you absolutely, positively have to play your PS2 games, slim PS2s are dirt cheap.

NeoChaos

@TheIrishNinja: lmao you think the 40 g isnt good because of bc.... thats hilarious man i have a 40 g and no ps2 games .... its soo not good!

jvv213

Did you guys totally miss the bundle with an 80gb BC PS3 or do you just like complaining that they took it away?

ZombieRace

Backwards compatibility is only software emulation for PS1 titles. PS2 games aren't emulated. They need actual hardware to be played, so it isn't something they can just "patch in".

Celdurant