Having another E3 is one thing. Convincing the big developers and publishers to turn up is another.

akif24

@Captiosus: Perhaps because it's all of us folks in our late 20's and early 30's have played too many videogames, wasted our lives, and not been able to make our mark felt as policy makers and news reporters!

In a way, gaming is still very much looked down on by the people with the loudest voices.

We as gamers have a loud voice when we speak in unison, but we only speak on the biggest platforms if we're allowed to speak - or we speak in a manner that does us no favours as we hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

My gaming is still something I'm kind of embarrassed about talking about in my peer groups, but I hope it will become more acceptable - and I really do hope that casual games open the door to more people to try additional, more core, games.

I just think we need time.

And yes, I have enjoyed this friendly discussion as well!

Meldy

just go back to old pre-2006 era.

Alex_Mexico

Make it a spectacle again or even better open it to the public, sell tickets and have a media only area also so that media can get good hands on time with games and can get some work done and the gamers can have a blast and the prestige of the event will return. This of course would bring all the publishers back and would force them to make the big announcements they used to and not hold back.

WPack911

Well the industry does need to continue justifying that $60 price tag.

Nedge

@Meldy: First of all, thanks for the compliment. I'm glad to have a little late night discussion that doesn't turn into a console bashing fest. :)

Secondly, allow me to say that I read your initial post wrong in believing that it was zero-sum. When you made your auto show analogy, I thought you mean they ONLY focused on people carriers and hybrids and just left the supercars at home for the enthusiast publications to write about.

"In the coming years you will see more gaming coverage by the mainstream press - it's unavoidable as the generations change."

I'm not sure how much I agree with this. I don't presume to speak for an entire generation, but I'm 33 years old and grew up in the rebuilding era of gaming (Atari and beyond). One would think that the folks in my age range would have already pushed gaming into the mainstream media. We're certainly old enough to have the influence. I don't know anyone in my age range who hasn't played video games in their lifetime, so it's not like the next generation of 30-somethings have more exposure to the media than we do.

Yet mainstream media still looks down on gaming as a childish pastime. An entertainment medium still not quite "up there" with movies, music and books.

According to Price Waterhouse Coopers, Video Gaming currently generates $41.9 billion in global sales and is projected to hit $68.3 billion in global sales by 2012. If mainstream media isn't taking gaming "seriously" now, I find it hard to believe they'll take it seriously by 2012 or beyond.

That leaves E3 trying to connect with media outlets which look disdainfully on the medium and only connecting with media outlets designed solely to cover gaming - the same outlets which always had the information before the change. The problem for E3 is: Will the social acceptability of gaming gain enough ground before E3 is an afterthought?

My opinion on that is, I don't think so.
Then again my opinion is about as reliable as a Magic 8-Ball™.

Captiosus

No what I think ruined E3 this year wasn't E3. E3 wa fine actually. It felt more like an E3 of the past. I didn't like that they separated the venues and made it harder for the journalists to get information to us. Keeping them happy will keep us informed.

Keeping it in one convention center was good. Why ruin what works?

What ruined E3 was the pressers. That's what we are all talking about anyway right? Nintendo was boring and didn't focus on us, MS fuxored our dash and Sony was Sony...and FF13. The pressers didn't have info that we really cared about. The demographic is changing and that's where they are heading. It was always about showing off to shareholders but now the shareholders think they want more Wii like things for the systems.

I'm sure if the presser had something we were excited about then people would claim that E3 was back. Heck we even had some booth babes!

-what I think is wrong with the event: change the date back to May. ( I know why that wont happen)

and make it a 5 day event to let the public play the demos as well.

Netnavi

When I read "10 things we dont ever want to see in E3 again" I didnt think it meant no more E3 until this announcement

KaliKOtt

@Captiosus: I agree with your well made points, but what you need to realise is that gaming is changing and becoming more acceptable. There is this grand concept of inclusion for all - spearheaded by Nintendo.

But the backlash they have felt this year will no doubt alter their presentations for next year.

This is an interim period, these things take time. E3 will continue - but understand it's not for us anymore. We get Leipzig, Tokyo etc.

In the coming years you will see more gaming coverage by the mainstream press - it's unavoidable as the generations change. And E3 will be the big one that they go to, when the rest of the year they are unable to get to smaller shows - further afield.

Meldy

Yay?

Murderdolls

@Captiosus: There's no reason E3 can't show big blockbusters and mainstream, mass appeal games/concepts at the same time. There's no need to alienate one or the other.

That's my whole point! They tried to do exactly that this year. Whereas in the past focus had been purely on the hardcore games (ie the supercars), this year they tried to mix both. Apart from Nintendo, who basically showed off their new family friendly, electric powered minivan - whose main selling feature, to our eyes, is that it has way more cupholders than any other vehicle on the market.

And with that, let's leave that analogy...

Meldy

@Captiosus: because it went from a games festival (which is what it was) to any old industry conference like you would find for automobiles, boats and the like. Not to mention, in the end its a business and they need to do exactly what has to be done to turn a profit.

Of course the only problem with that is that the mass media still looks at video games as things for children, if theyre not decrying them for destroying families.

I think the perfect example of what E3's become...is Nintendo's "fuck you" to its long-time hardcore fans. Notice the focus of its business dealings? It more or less mirrors E3's change into what its become today, a trades show to bring in as many customers as possible.

Even Microsoft wants in on the casual crowd action as evidenced by their conference. Only Sony seems not to give a damn about casual games, hopefully because they see casual games as stubburnly as they see the Wii, a fad, which is what Nintendo is turning it into by adding new peripherals every so often. Most people who i know who have a Wii have stopped playing it for lack of games, and any 'casual' games they had were either rentals or ones they played a few times and now they just sit ther collecting dust like the system itself.

aww whoamikiddin? Next E3 we'll see Sony's casual fest -___-

Deus_EpS

@KRaid-: Fair point.

But the way Maldy was talking was very zero-sum.

I see no reason why E3 can't be all inclusive rather than trying to push solely for a new market demographic. Show games that appeal to the more casual market and show big blockbusters that are up and coming, but don't slight one to push the other.

To be completely honest, I just don't see E3 doing anything to expand the market to a new audience. Where did most of the E3 news get reported? The same gaming sites and periodicals that are read by.. guess who? Us! Does the new market they're trying to reach really care about how many PS3s or X360s were sold last year?

By the time we see the Monday night National News report the last week's game sales figures along side the previous weekend's box office numbers, E3 will probably be long gone like COMDEX.

Captiosus

E3 2009 with special guest appearance by the Velvet Fog, Mel Torme!

Juthan

@Arttemis: No way, friend. If next year is Empire, and Nintendo is the Empire, and this year was Hope, then that would mean at E3 2008 a bunch of teenagers just blew up Nintendo's great superweapon. In other words, a Death Star-tastrophe. Which is, I think, how Diderot would've termed it.

In other news, what the Hell is an aluminum falcon?

wild homes desires a pudding!

@Captiosus:

"Sad to say, that makes very little sense. Why alienate the people who will spend the most income per annum on games?"

Because they know we will spend money regardless. They have to reach out the media, to try and get a new audience.

KRaid-

I hope my girl cammy dunway comes back with a whole new set of stories for us.

get2theDeLorean

An e3 that the public won't be able to attend even if we have e for all. Tokyo Game Show convention lets business first then the public can enter which seems more fair.

zkotaku

@Meldy: To put it briefly, E3 is not for us hardcore gamers.

Sad to say, that makes very little sense. Why alienate the people who will spend the most income per annum on games?

It's for the more mainstream press - it's a chance to show off games and products to people who wouldn't ordinarily be focusing on videogames.

Except it fails at this, too. There were no 'mainstream' reports on the nightly news, or the big 3 cable news networks' prime time shows, about E3. The only snippets from mainstream news outlets have been in select newspapers (as you alluded to) and on the mainstream medias' news websites (e.g. CNN.com, MSNBC.com, FoxNews.com), and even then they're buried under either the tech or entertainment sections.

A car show wouldn't focus on the high performance supercars - you'd have the people carriers and the hybrids.

Actually, having been a Road & Track subscriber for going on 15 years now, I can say without reservation that auto shows show both the latest in mass appeal vehicles and the "way out of our price range for the next two lifetimes" high performance supercars. There's no reason E3 can't show big blockbusters and mainstream, mass appeal games/concepts at the same time. There's no need to alienate one or the other.

I agree wholeheartedly that the E3 FunFests of olde needed to be toned down. A lot. However, what we've gotten now is a lackluster, sterile show that provides very little "wow!", very little excitement and just feels like an out of place conference where gaming companies can boast about their numbers.

Captiosus

fission mailed.

Pata-pwn(TM?)

@wild homes desires a pudding!: For that premise to work, that would have to mean E3 08 was Nintendo: A New Hope... and I don't think you could point to a single person that got that notion.

Arttemis

If they had any common sense they would bring E3 up to San Francisco, just like the GDC. SF has the largest community of developers and journalists in the country. Holding the event anywhere else never made sense, and it continues to baffle me as to why they bother doing it in Los Angeles.

With the show as neutered as it's been, they could easily fit the entire Expo into the Moscone West convention center.

Atheist Jew

Bring it to the East coast!!! LMAO

Seanross

@mr_dimsum: They said originally that the change was because it was too flashy. Developers and producers had to spend too much money, and time, creating flashy loud booths at E3. Developers were trying to one up each other, trying to make their booths louder or flashier then the next etc. All this meaning they were unable to get their ideas and new games across, and it was taking money and time away from actually making the games...

Thats what was said anyways, and I totally disagree. Now its some boring business meeting, developers are limit to tiny booths etc to keep it "fair" or something lol.

Crull

if its not really a big E3 its going to be the last one thats for shure

mpar

@KRaid-:

thats was pretty freakin funny

Jnkzm4

@KRaid-: That's exactly what I wanted to make! Except I didn't have the motivation. Thanks!

everybest

@wild homes desires a pudding!: WiiDJ announced!

SupaPhly

@mr_dimsum: back in the days of yore...it was easy to 1up the competition in the proverbial dick-measuring contests of who had the best lineup of games and whatnot because almost anything went in order to grab people's attention. Also, booth babes.

Now it isnt easy because its worth so much. $29 billion Trenton said of the industry's 2008 worth. I guess you eventually grow up and realise thats a fuckton of money and thats some degree of professionalism is needed.

But seriously, i hated this year's E3, it was horribly lacklustre and underwhelming. I watched the live feeds of the pressers for the big three and was utterly dissappointed at what they had coming out. I couldnt care less if there was never another E3.

Cant wait for TGS and KHGLWHG98754 (or whatever Square's conference is called) though.

Deus_EpS

Sorry for reposting this from Lukes topic yesterday - but before this degenerates into E3 slagging, please have a think about this:

I think that all the E3 whiners need to listen to Garnett Lee on the latest 1Up Yours podcast.

I was just like a lot of you in berating the Expo, but what he said really changed my mind about how I viewed it all.

To put it briefly, E3 is not for us hardcore gamers. We're not invited. It's for the more mainstream press - it's a chance to show off games and products to people who wouldn't ordinarily be focusing on videogames.

A car show wouldn't focus on the high performance supercars - you'd have the people carriers and the hybrids. Cannes shows family friendly and high brow and everything in between - it's because all the small sections that make up the industry are on show to the biggest volume of global media. They try to have something that will appeal to a mass market.

There are plenty other shows and exhibitions that are for us. We're simply viewing the glory days of E3 - when it was open to us plebs and there were booth babes and new games. E3 is appealling to a broader market. There are articles in the Daily Telegraph and Times about it.

Gaming is really entering a new phase of acceptability. E3 is a useful mouthpiece for it. Some of the points made by Luke are valid, but let's face the fact...

E3 is just not for us any more.

Meldy

@Braindance: I mean 2008. :P

Braindance

Bring back the old which made it so special.

Mr.DuckSauce

I'm more amazed that there is going to be a GO3 2009 :P

Braindance

Bring it to San Diego!

Actually, with the way E3 is going so far, keep it far far away.

fl3tcher

@Miksho: You're right, dont call it that.

DaftDethMonkey

Oh, and also:

E3 2009-- Episode V: Nintendo Strike Back, or DJ Ravi II: The Ravening.

wild homes desires a pudding!

As long as there is no more of this!

[i36.tinypic.com]

KRaid-

They need to open it up for the entire industry and charge non-members an extra fee and/or give members exclusives or priority choice in placement.

everybest

Orange County for the win! No need for an hour long drive to get to LA! lol Santa Monica would be ideal, unless it's private again...in that case I'll just take the hour long drive. ;p

Fadakar

I never understood the point of changing the format in the first place.. Where was the old chap who ran ESA? Why did he leave, of why..

Why the sudden change to such a huge formality? I seriously didn't understand it.. Than again, I do recall many publishers considering jumping ship out of the old format as well, saying it was too expensive and was troublesome to waste resources on producing E3-centric material..

Now that it's gone, people are contradicting the very sentiment they felt a few years back.

Although I don't blame them.. This new format seems to make me snore. I don't recall EVER seeing an E3 this bad.

mr_dimsum

Ooh. Time to mark this down. I need a new calendar with bigger boxes for each date, it's hard to fit TO DO: BE UNDERWHELMED on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday.

wild homes desires a pudding!

My pants explode with delight.

No. . . wait, they don't.

TrjnRabbit

Woo! Bring it to the O.C.!

I shouldn't call it that.

Miksho

Hooray!

ZetaCrossfire

Thanks Kotaku, now I'll have plenty of time to ignore the 'event'.

humongous_mouse

E3 should have never started inviting the press to cover the event. Now it's to the point that some people even think that E3 is for the media's benefit.

Tyrannical

Hey Kotaku, why don't you get together with the other gaming blogs and press and kill this event by not showing and reporting? They obviously don't know that they've outlived their welcome, so stop shining a light on this mediocrity, please.

masterdingo

Bring it to Orange County to put the mediocre icing on the cake of mediocrity?

bleeps

Well Obviously, I mean where else is sony going to put their killzone 2?

Ragarnok

A change of city and venue would be a step in the right direction.

M

I think theyll mess with EVERYONE and put it in Vegas.

Altima NEO

Great.
November, big booth displays, no more than 3 booth babes each company, game industry and journalists only?

Or is it fated to be as thrilling as COMDEX, just as shy of media attention, and fated to die the same way?

fuchikoma

Bring it to Chicago and invite the public. I'm sick of California getting all the love.

skrame ☆

DO NOT WANT

...unless there are more than like 3 booth babes.

Shakespeare

how about moving it to the middle of no where, so the show will look great

eeryee

@bashcraft: Bring it to Orange County!

I like the way the Craftinator thinks. Driving to Anaheim Convention Center, then walking across the street to go to Disneyland when it's out for the day?

Yes, YESsssssssssss.

Genocyde

I'm seriously taking it the wrong way now where you say they are "plotting" E3 2009.

More twirly moustaches are needed.

Alexander_the_Badger

EA will be the only company there....

VixDiesel

They should just cancel it altogether. E3 this year actually caused anti-hype for me. I got sort of depressed because of the huge letdowns, and lost interest in all videogames for a while, even the ones I already have. I've recovered since then though. I really don't want to be so frustrated and disappointed about my hobby ever again.

Placentasaurus

LAS VEGAS!

maniacmayhem

yah,bring it to pasadena!!!

xmenyuan

It's a shame, it was amazing back then and they thought hmm let's make it small and crappy.

Your-Face-Has-To-Be-A-Lie

How bout just hold it in May again, and hopefully at least make it a little bigger again.

MorbidLilim

Everyone knew this would be announced. It was just a matter of time. E3 is still a big attention getter for the industry.

JB2448