@CCCombobreaker: Actually Joystiq and other sites reported the same thing. Many Team Ninja members may or may not be leaving in the future (perhaps Microsoft-bound), but at least two of them besides Itagaki did sue Tecmo for underpayment. I think we can assume there's a lot of unrest there, whatever Tecmo says to calm their shareholders.

gaijira

@CCCombobreaker: I don't believe that's true. It was much more widely reported than that. And more than one avenue verified some of the facts of the employee lawsuits against Tecmo. Kotaku covered the larger exodus the same Sunday night as the Intellisponse leak. And I never saw any retraction or update, as far as I can remember.

wild homes is being recast!

@DukeOfPwn: Microsoft published NG2 which was made by Tecmo.

So from what I'm seeing, this is just a different way to play the levels that we already have included. They're really being jerks about the DLC for this game. First they sell outfits, now this. I can only hope every penny gets funneled straight through to Itagaki and he gives them the finger again.

Spartan1308™

@CCCombobreaker: Oh? I wonder what is really going on then.

DugDawg

@muu: damn, Tecmo, close enough...

Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.

@DugDawg:

Only itagaki left. 1up was the only site that had the story on a bunch of team ninja members leaving. It wasnt true afaik.

CCCombobreaker

Btw guys you mean TECMO right? Not namco.

CCCombobreaker

@Sonic_and_Tails:

Yep, that is my biggest concern. Team Ninja packed up and quit -- though I can't say I blame them, circumstances withstanding. But it sure sucks for us gamers.

DugDawg

@Sonic_and_Tails:

I dont think itagaki even liked black. he said he hated the mission mode.

CCCombobreaker

I wasn't expecting any DLC to come out at all, seeing that there probably won't be another game from Team Ninja that Namco will publish.

DukeOfPwn

Any new Achievements coming with these I wonder?

PITwelve

Namco...?

muu

@Sonic_and_Tails: oh....that too lol

Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.

@Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.: Sadly, yes. And I doubt there will be a Black version solely because there will be no one to make it.

Sonic_and_Tails

@wild homes is being recast!: CoD4, GoW. All they did was give you the map pack.

Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.

Namco is nickle 'n diming everyone to save their asses when they have to pay all of team ninja in court.

Logical, yes?

Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.

@DugDawg: I doubt they will. Ninja Gaiden 1's cam issues lasted through three releases.

ShaggE

@Krondonian: Yeah, I don't know if there's enough reason to do a Black this generation, considering they could just upgrade the initial game with patches and downloadable content. I think the age of same-system 'upgrade' or 'ultimate' releases at a bargain price has sadly passed.

wild homes is being recast!

I love the game, but I'm not sure "high score" and "survival" attack missions are worth my 800 points. I think my time is better spent gathering those final skulls and polishing off those final tests of valor. I wish they would work on releasing content in the form of improved camera tweaks, etc., because that is really the only thing holding this game back.

DugDawg

So how long to the 'Black' version?

I haven't played the second, but will certainly be picking it up at some point. It's a question of whether more money is stood to be gained through this DLC, or as a re-release.

I fear there will be no Black...

Krondonian

Nice price, I wonder if they enhanced anything about the gameplay.

Omnimon

They're ALL camera battle missions!

cheesecake000

Wait. These missions must be 30 seconds long.

Because there's no way Team Ninja would provide reasonable rates for their DLC.

Arsenicberyllium

"What? No camera battle missions? That's the best part!"

I lolled.

Jorw

@PITwelve: I hope so, that would at least validate it somewhat. I bought the Fiend Hayabusya skin only because I wanted to use up the rest of my points, but compared to this, meh.

Karisu-Zero

Honestly, I never even really had a problem with the camera in this game. What I did have a problem with was the insane difficulty in the Warrior mode on the next to last and last levels. MANY 3rd person games have wonky cameras, and there's not much you can do about it ... other than try and bring the camera out a little bit so it's not close to the character. I noticed that NG II's camera is closer to Ryu, NJB seemed to be back just a little bit. Still, never had a problem.

dead_red_eyes

Oh man, I'm playing through it now. The camera is infuriating, but the action is so much fun! Those new obliteration moves are terrific, and really balance out the difficulty, thank Team Ninja!

The Magnificen7

Black is not happening. NGB happened because there was hardly anyone on Xbox live 1.

Everyone has access to live on 360, so everyone can get these. So it's not happening.

These missions better be big, because recalling the average NGB missions... and NGB had like 50+ of these!

And anyone who says they don't have camera problems is lying and like me, is just seriously depressed this isn't GOTY quality. Reliance on peripheral vision is camera problem. Having to press RT is camera problem. Oh and that darn wall, THAT is a camera problem!

Ultrasinc

Another 600 MS points will make you a co-plaintiff in Itagaki's suit!

Hurry kids, space is limited!

The_Catalpa

"What? No camera battle missions?"

Priceless! HAHAHHAH!

Myst3r1o

Just play on Acolyte mode like us normal people. Warrior mode destroyed me... hard. I stopped playing for a while, then started again on the easier difficulty and I beat it.

Superstar90

@dead_red_eyes: Yeah, I'm playing through on warrior mode now and trying to finish all of the tests of valor. As I near the end, the game is definitely getting punishing. I can only imagine what those last two levels are like with all of those bosses in succession. Yikes! The thought of the ...

**possible spoilers**

"Double exploding armadillos" face off -- among other fights -- just scares me.

DugDawg

Wow, so they remove costumes and mission mode from the game, just so they can sell it to us a month later? **** you, Tecmo.

imikedaman

See as how the game just came out in North America a little bit ago and this DLC really isn't anything special....shouldn't have this kind of thing just been released in the retail version?

TheGuilty1

@Ultrasinc: actually i'm not having trouble with the camera. some of us just grow accustomed to the camera angle. just got done with warrior rank #1407 on the leaderboards!!

just hope these missions bring back some new fiends especially the nightmare fiends cause those guys could put up a fight. either that or the mission where you have to fight your way up the tower to save racheal.

Milkzhakes

I see a twin golems fight. And a Genshin & Elizabet fight.

*chill of the dead rises up spine*

Xiedo

I wouldnt be surprised if these missions were already done before Itagaki and the crew stepped out. Im sure we can expect the same quality from these new missions. . . I hope.

PITwelve

If there were points for "battle camera missions" I'd have the highest score in the leaderboards, for sure.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

As a stalwart Ninja Gaiden fan (we're talking since the NES Ninja Gaidens and their bullshit bird enemies) I seriously can't understand why people can't get over the "awful" camera. I can't notice a difference between it and the camera for NGI (except for the parts when NGII's cameraman pulls in close for the UTs and obliterations, which I find to be a great touch. It's like the money shot). Hey, guys, Itagaki gave you a camera reset button! Be grateful! You want awful camera? You ever PLAYED a Devil May Cry game?

If Ninja Gaiden's camera is bad I've never played a hack n slash with a good one. The only reason God of War doesn't catch flak for its camera is because its pulled back so far we can't even watch Kratos rip people in half in full glory. Hell, even Dynasty Warriors had awful camera and that game series takes place on virtually featureless flat terrain.

Personally, I'm really sad to here all this criticism against Ninja Gaiden II that I find quite unfair given the context of the game, especially when a game that I find unforgivable problems in--Metal Gear Solid 4--has a still steadily growing pile of roses at its feet. I know it's totally apples-to-oranges, but still...

Gunhaver

I love the game... but 800 sounds a bit steep.

Muckley

@Muckley: they need to make up for lost money from lawsuits :P

EMPEROR_COW

@Gunhaver: I agree. A lot of people who complain about the camera don't understand the game.

Ryu moves incredibly fast. To play the game properly on the higher difficulties requires him to be in motion pretty much 100% of the time. He can jump off enemies, perform moves which teleport him across the screen, run on walls, roll, dash, do flips, throw projectiles, throw enemies, etc, etc, etc.

To amplify the sense of pace and carnage, the camera is close to the violent and gory action. If the camera was far away, the brutality of an obliteration move would be severly diminished.

So Team Ninja has also given you control of the camera. You can rotate it in any direction, you can control the speed at which it rotates, and you can reset the camera behind Ryu so that it's looking in the direction he is facing. Reseting the camera is a required skill. You must pay attention to where Ryu is facing, and also how to get him to face where you want. For example, a quick and easy trick to get the camera to face the nearest enemy is to simply throw some shurikens, which auto aim at the nearest threat, and also cause Ryu to face the threat after he's thrown the shuriken. Then hit camera reset, and boom, instant auto-targetting camera.

No amount of camera logic can keep up with Ryu and so user control is required. This is pretty much unavoidable. The only thing I can think of to make the camera more user friendly is to have the camera reset automatically face the nearest enemy, but even this would be annoying in certain battles where you'd want to override this behaviour. NG2 is a hardcore title and requires a hardcore level of dedication to master.

baccardi84

Also i refuse to pay 800ms points when i pay for live it should be free with the money they make from live!

adamr999

Hmm im up to chapter 12 and dont find the camera angle annoying! you guys are too fussy :P

adamr999

@EMPEROR_COW: Heh, quite probably.
Far as I know, those 25 missions were mentioned in an earlier Prima guide or something similar, just mentioned not detailed. They were part of early release candidates of the game... the type sent out to places like Prima. Which means they were probably removed from the game before release just to get some more money. Or maybe I'm wearing a tinfoil hat...

I suppose now that I think about it, it comes down to how many glitches are found in the missions. If the mission mode leaderboards are gonna be filled with blatant cheats up the top, like the current ones, then I'm not paying for anything. But really... the screenshots of the missions make it look fun. Two giant blind trolls at once!

Muckley

Ninja Gaiden Black was really just the reduced price greatest hits version including the DLC. Several 360 games have already had re-releases with extra DLC already included like Oblivion and CoD4.
But do you really want to wait until fall of 09 for a cheaper re-release?

Tyrannical

@Gunhaver: @baccardi84:
I am with you guys. This game is by far the best 3rd person action title on the market right now. 25 missions for 800 points is pretty good.

If you can't handle working the camera yourself you're spoiled, sorry kids but its the truth. The camera is the way it is, it adds another level of complexity and allows you to control the action for the save film feature. I wouldn't have it any other way.

TheLegendof_Erick

IMO the game is almost perfect. all it needs is more fiends, some new and some old from NG:BLACK. The camera issue is really just a trade-off for all the action that is going on in game. i mean if i could compare NGII to DMC4 in camera and action levels. i would say that DMC4 may have a great camera angle, but the action is really not that adrenaline pumping. think about it in DMC4 enemies come at you one at a time, while in NGII they all come at you with all they got. even in the acolyte mode they put up a fight whether it's the spider ninjas, those jerks that throw the incendary shurikens, or just those ninja dogs they all want to kick your ass and sometimes will. like i said, IMO, if they had to sacrifice the camera just a bit to have all this action going on then by all means go ahead. P.S. there's a camera reset button

Milkzhakes

Also I've never heard of gamesryde so is it a rumor that we'll be paying 800 or does these guys saying it mean it's confirmed?

Llost

I love the game and got 1,000 points for preordering it (which when the game didn't arrive made me cancel the order, keep the points and buy the game £10 cheaper in the stores) but mission mode on Ninja gaiden black was hard yet NG2 has a lot of cheapness that I can't be bothered putting up with (incindiary shurikens, grabs as soon as you land etc.). Love the game and I'm on path of the mentor at the moment but I've tried doing the first trial on path of the mentor about 90 times and just can't do it. I don't want to be doing that with the mission modes too.

Llost

I would buy the game for 4800 Microsoft Points if they ported it to PS3 ;).

gencid

@Milkzhakes: For some reason, I can't believe ANYONE that says they have no issues with the camera.

Sure, you can get used to it and it becomes MANAGEABLE... that is if you get used to using your intuition and get used to remembering where all the off-screen enemies are. Trust me, I've beaten it on Mentor and am half way through Master Ninja (and yes, I've done every test of valor thus far on all difficulties)... so I don't suck or anything. But I can admit fault and problems with the games and things I like. Unlike others who tend to defend EVERYTHING about the game they like in fear of turning anyone off to it.

But regardless... there are certain sections, like during many of the tests of valors (esp on Mentor & MN) where you just can't see where the enemies are... and with all the exploding shurikens and magicians casting spells... it just sucks.

The fact that you either have to keep reseting the camera or controlling it with the right analog stick is proof that the camera sucks and has issues.

Ideally, games should need ZERO input from the player. Of course, certain types of games can't have perfect cameras (like fully 3D ones), but they can definitely be more finely tuned that Ninja Gaiden's.

But Itagaki and Team Ninja just needs to be willing to sacrifice a little bit of that cinematic feel they're going for in order to make gameplay quite a bit better. Seriously, I just don't think some people realize how much a good camera can actually improve a game.

thezman

What they really need to do is fixed the lag. The game is unplayable on anything above warrior.

thegreatseal

Hope there's ppl still at Team Ninja working on resolving the framerate/slowdown issues. Tarnishes an otherwise awesome experience.

How come screenshots for this game always look so much sharper than actual in-game? I know it runs at 585p (which also sucks), but still....

MoFuzz

@thezman: By the way, I meant, Ideally games should need ZERO input (for camera control) from the player.

thezman

@thegreatseal: They did improve that to some degree. However, there are still definitely some problematic spots.

They patched it 5 or 6 days ago... fixing the show-stopping bugs and improving the lag to some degree.

thezman