@talking_chicken: Oh, absolutely. Just wanted to clarify, I've known a few Touch owners (ahem Scazza ahem) who've become very, very upset about the not-really-advertised firmware update charges.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: True, but I'd rather pay ten bucks every few months than $70 each month. I've already got a phone, I don't need a fancy schmancy one.

talking_chicken

The smart phone as a gaming device concept began, as far as I can remember, with the Ngage (sp?). Incredibly, that piece of shit still surfaces in industry news occasionally, having been redesigned a ton of times since the original "taco phone."

With the iPhone, that lofty goal seems to have at least some shot at succeeding, however it'll never be mentioned in the same breath as the DS/PSP. The primary user targeted with the latest 3G phone isn't just Apple diehards anymore: it finally supports Microsoft's Outlook mail client that is the gold standard for corporate America.

Consequently, if you're the guy in an office in charge of monitoring PDA/smartphone distribution, a lot of your younger employees will be bugging your ass for an iPhone instead of the traditional Blackberry. It's a nice in-road for the company into the corporate market Apple has shunned since its inception.

There's the inherent cool factor that appeals to the Apple faithful and casual purveyors of sweet technology alike. I'm somewhere in between, having switched to Macs in college -- not entirely needing the features of the iPhone, but I've reached a point in my career where a smart phone with a calendar that syncs with my laptop back at home would be a sensible upgrade over the Motorola RAZR I've had forever.

Rambling aside, the biggest reason this is a non-story? Imagine if Sony or Nintendo made you sign a 2-year service agreement to buy their systems. Nobody's going to buy this for Monkey Ball. It's about the applications, ease of use, and versatility. Gaming will be a nice diversion, but hardly a main pillar of Apple's revenue structure.

Jonaconda

@okenny :): I'm not going to debate the quality of Sony's products, but it's worth pointing out that Sony's phones-- or Sony-Ericsson's, rather, which isn't the same company precisely-- are actually really pretty good and only getting better. The Xperia X1, which launches in a couple of months, is an extremely comparable device to the iPhone. Yes, Sony's been bested by Apple in the past-- in many different venues. But you can't disregard the fact that Sony is a smart company, and isn't going down without a fight.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

IPhone? Who gives a crap about the IPhone? Games on cell phones are GHEY. IPhone will not help that dreadful fact.

Blah-Blah-Blah

I can understand Nintendo, they have $$ and lots of it. They were bitching about how fast they were making it a few months back. When your balls are that swollen then yes, you can blow a load in Apples mouth and then make it do your taxes as it's forced you watch you pump it's wife.

Now Sony? Seriously? Who the fuck is Sony? It's cell phones can't stand ground to the Apple phones. It's Viao have no way near the market as the iMac. Apple already ate it's lunch once when they destroyed the Walkman with the iPod. Does Sony have anything to fear from the iPhone, a state of the art media device, when it has a portable with a shit media format built-in? Oh yes they do.

okenny :)

@Spartan1308™:

[gizmodo.com]

They raised the rates and while most people foot a cell phone bill, the same can't be said for a data plan.

Elly

It's decent for some games, but there's way too many great first party Sony and Nintendo franchises that I wouldn't want to miss out on.

Wolfers

To think Apple would learn from the N-Gage and Pippin....

SoonerMatt

@Indy_aka_Rex: Yeah, the kind of brain cancer that makes them think that a phone without physical buttons wont drive them mental.

I can imagine that you could get some nice games on the iPhone, but it's kind of a similar thing to the Wii, there are going to be a limited amount of games done really well, and then mostly a bunch of awful me-too games.

All i can think of is how easy it would be to have your finger move off the spots that you are supposed to be over to shoot, or move or whatever, because you can't feel it. Not to mention how weird your fingers start feeling after using touch surfaces for a while.

Admittedly you could say that about the mobile gaming market in general. So many companies making games that are along the lines of console or arcade games, when those are the worst possible option for a mobile phone. Strategy, puzzle and rpg games are best for mobile.

However, the iPhone could be really nice as a wireless control surface for home, and for music production/performance.

okay.. that was way more ranting than i intended.

Polite Society

@InsidiousTuna: Thank you for the looking out, my friend. I am glad to know there are fellow commenters I can rely on. You're like the Erlichman to my Nixon.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

"I will eat a pound of boiled dicks."

- wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!, Friday, July 25th, 2008

I just wanted to make sure that was quoted for posterity.

InsidiousTuna

@talking_chicken: The Touch is a nice enough device-- but don't forget that the Touch implicitly includes periodic charges for new firmware updates. So far there have been two such charged updates, at ten dollars each. It's not a lot of money, but it is something to consider before you buy. The iPhone gets free updates, but the Touch owners have to pay up.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

I'm not too surprised. Nintendo and Sony are both console makers after all. They would prefer that the games they sell come out for the consoles they make. I don't think I remember a time when Nintendo (not some third party they licensed their characters to) actually made a game that wasn't for their own console, save the arcade machines.

Also, does no one care about the iPod touch? With its software upgrade, it plays the same stuff the iPhone does, but there's no phone part. There's only a one-time cost, too, so you don't have to worry about contracts or anything. I'd look into one if I had a bit more cash, and I'd certainly get that over an iPhone (especially since I'm in Canada and Rogers is gouging us so badly).

talking_chicken

I think the iPhone isn't a terribly worrisome competitor for the DS-- simply because the DS is pretty cheap and the library is brilliant-- and to a lesser extent it's not a huge threat to the PSP, although if seventy percent of the people who buy a PSP are honestly buying it primarily for games I will eat a pound of boiled dicks. Nearly every single person I know with a PSP uses it primarily as a multimedia device. Maybe one could argue they bought it as a game device and then settled for the media functionality when they realised the PSP's game library, while decent, isn't gaining great titles at anything like a healthy pace, but that's a very disingenuous way of describing the PSP's success. The simple fact of the matter is that the best thing about the PSP is the way Sony built in a lot of (not always intended) non-game capabilities into the device. And in that way, the iPhone is just like the PSP Plus-- it does pretty much all the same multimedia stuff, and much of the same gaming stuff, and it's a phone. It lacks the PSN connectivity-- and I admit that's a big, fun draw of the PSP-- but the iPhone should have Sony worried, at least a bit.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

No matter how well you church them up, and even if they are on the jesus phone, cell phone games almost always end with buyers remorse. Would be interesting though if apple were to jump into the gaming market with a console. They've already conquered computers, music players, and cell phones- why not video games?

get2theDeLorean

I agree that the iPhone is promising as a gaming system, but it needs a button.

Atleast 1. The touch screen is far too small. Two shoulder buttons would do great opposite the volume adjuster and ring/vibrate switch.

bennifer3000

@Emiat: The point is that you're assuming that they're assuming. So if they are not really assuming, you are wrong. So your assumption is unfair.

FP_slomo788

As far as Apple and games, I think it comes down to the fact that video games are just another thing iTunes can push.

Could Apple be a threat to Sony or Nintendo?
Possibly; but I just see this as the same as when iTunes started selling TV shows, and movies.

If I am not mistaken the target audience for the iPhone is Blackberry type users.
Just seems like a waste of money for Apple to invest much in it.

Reikson

@Emiat: So you don't think the Wii is extremely overpriced?

I also have one and have since launch.

Spartan1308™

@Arsenicberyllium: You're going to have some periphery overlap, but for the most part, devout Apple Addicts are the ones who are going to be buying the iPhone, and not only are they less often gamers, but it's a small market to begin with.

*cough* [www.macobserver.com] and [www.ipodobserver.com]

Yeah, Apple's doing just fine, and that "small market" appears to be anything but at this point.

That said I can't say I disagree that the iPhone is never going to be a primary competitor in the games space. Its also not going to replace a laptop anytime soon for "serious" users, which is why I don't have one yet.

DaiMacculate

@FP_slomo788: Well if Sony can do it, why can't I?

Emiat

All this Iphone stuff reminds me of when people were talking about Palm being the next big gaming platform. We see how that turned out. Lack of gamepad, lack of buttons, means it's designed for gaming period.

jacksons98

@Emiat: You're assuming what they're assuming.

FP_slomo788

@Elly: Hmmm...I know you're factoring in the $70 per month phone bill, but that isn't all that much if you already have a cell phone. Do you think the average gamer doesn't already pay monthly for cell service?

I don't think the iphone is a serious competitor for either Sony or Nintendo, but I'm just saying that the cost of the new iphone isn't all that prohibitive if you already have a mobile.

Spartan1308™

@sir_carrot: We already have a Apple type company in this generation and they are called Nintendo, a white underpowered box with controls that aren't always suitable, the only thing missing is the extreme overpricing.

Btw, I have a Wii and intend to get a iMac before I get the hate messages.

@Arsenicberyllium: Yes I'm not part of the 70% that buy a PSP solely for games, but there is no % given for the amount of people buying the PSP as a gaming device first, Sony assume 100% of the people buying a PSP want one for games and then 30% wonder off to buy movies and hack it.

Emiat

@everybest: Because of the PSP's media capacities I guess. Just like PS3 is not "directly" competing with the Wii.

FP_slomo788

@Emiat: I've also been thinking about it mainly for the portable video capability. Being able to serve video to it from my PS3 really makes it interesting. I'm not all that interested in playing half baked PS2 games. To be fair his statistic probably comes from people who have actually bought it, not those of us who are thinking about buying it.

Spartan1308™

Trism's quite fun, and Aurora Feint is excellent (and free- I'd easily pay $20 for it on the DS, it gives Puzzle Quest a run for its money), but I don't see me using my iPhone for too much other gaming. I'm not planning on getting Spore for it, or Monkey Ball. It's promising, but the device does so damned much else for it to really qualify as a competitor for the DS or PSP, so I can see why Nintendo and Sony aren't exactly wetting themselves.

*goes back to Aurora Feint*

InsidiousTuna

I fear the iPhone, it gives people brain cancer.

Indy_aka_Rex

Honestly, I can't really see the iPhone market taking off. Besides the obvious stigma behind the Apple name(it works just as much against it as it does for it), the core iPhone crowd is not the core game crowd. You're going to have some periphery overlap, but for the most part, devout Apple Addicts are the ones who are going to be buying the iPhone, and not only are they less often gamers, but it's a small market to begin with.

@Emiat: And? You're obviously not part of that 70%. Problem solved.

@everybest: To a degree. While it is first and foremost for games, the DS is soley for games, while the PsP has other practical applications.

Arsenicberyllium

I don't know why anyone would fear the iPhone as a competitor to a GAMING machine at this point. It has the ability to play games and will no doubt do quite well for itself...

But will that really be because of the games available on it?

I hate to bring up the N-Gage... So I won't. Suffice it to say... N-GAGE!

2NinjasTapedTogether

Wow, Sony managed to burn Microsoft, Apple and Nintendo in the same sentence. They're both essentially correct though: iPhone games aren't going to be a direct threat, nor will it change the way either company does business. Not to mention the fact that iPhones cost $2000 per two years of use (plan+phone) which definitely puts it out of the range of your average gamer.

Also, I tried playing Vay on my friend's iPhone, but an RPG feels weird without buttons. Since RPGs are what I play, I will remain loyal to my DS and PSP!

Elly

It would be vaguely amusing if Apple decided to hop into the gaming market next generation and then proved to be the leading console.

'Introducing the Applecore, top gaming console in today's market...'

sir_carrot

"whereas a person buying a PSP is buying it first and foremost for games"

Funny, recently I have thought about buying a PSP for other uses that don't include PSP games.

And before you accuse me of illegal ROMs and etc, at first I was thinking videos and then maybe the ROMs to follow.

Emiat

If the PSP is first and foremost for games, then why is it an indirect competitor with the DS?

everybest

@okenny :): Fair enough, my friend. I think you're right. Sony should definitely be concerned. Apple are a savvy enough company that their mere presence in your industry should be a shot across the bow. I hope Sony are privately taking the iPhone more seriously than they're displaying publicly. Cheers!

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: I should probably preface my statement with I think all Mac products are simplified sh*t (I censored my fucking self again D: ) for the most part. The iPhone is a good product but like the Wii, it's not the product for my type of usage. In that sense, I prefer the just about anything Sony to anything Apple as it stands. The heart of my previous statement is that Sony's past is filled with arrogance and complacent behavior that has just about every contender that enters the market Sony thought it's made a foundation in taking a huge bite out of Sony's profit. They have still have enough in the hand-held games market to make loosing it an embarrassing ordeal so they should probably show some kind of concern.

As far as fear as the story so "cleverly" paraphrased, it's probably not the right anthropomorphism to use when describing how Sony should feel about the iPhone.

okenny :)

I do not fear the iphone either :p

ViciousViper

The iPhone is competing against other cell phone games. You generally aren't going to play an iPhone game for an extended period of time since the battery will easily run out with major consequences. Not so much with a PSP/DS.

And it's a phone first anyway.

dagamer34

Sony doesn't fear the iReaper.
Nor do the Windows, the sun or the rain
We can be like they are.

Come on baby... Don't fear the Reaper
Baby take my hand... Don't fear the Reaper
We'll be able to fly... Don't fear the Reaper
Baby I'm your game...

40,000 men and women everyday... Wiidefine happiness
Another 40,000 coming everyday...We can be like they are

Come on baby... And she had no fear
And she ran to him... Then they started to play
They looked backward and said goodbye
She had become like they are
She had taken his hand
She had become like they are

Come on baby...don't fear the iReaper

Kenofthedead

@Mr_Ed: No offence, but with the speed that our world's ice is melting... ANYONE could probably sell it to Eskimo people.

Your point is well taken, though, I forgot about the Itouch too...

2NinjasTapedTogether

@okenny :): "As far as fear as..."

...yikes ^_^;

okenny :)

You've got to remember the "iPhone" also includes the ipod touch, which increases the customer base.

If your using the PSP for mostly multi-media, the iphone/touch is far and away a better device, even if its more expensive.

Apple are the best at marketing, they could sell ice to eskimo's these days, and while expensive, the iphone/touch are absolute genius (this from someone who doesn't like Apple), so a great product, with great marketing, they are going to take off.

Even after x years, theres still little or nothing on the PSP gamewise that interests me, its been used for multimedia mostly, and its getting sold, because the touch is soo much better at that.

the iPhone/Touch are going to take off, like the Wii, and once the games start rolling in, the PSP had better watch out, and after that the DS.

Mr_Ed

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: Too right, damn Apple. Its like they want us iTouch users to wait for hacked firmware/apps instead.

Scazza

@Kenofthedead: I want to fucking hug you.

InsidiousTuna

iPod Touch.

Blinklink11

Nintendo has little cause to fear the Iphone, so why would they be worried. Look at the bulk of people with DS's, do they honestly want Iphones?

Sony has more to be worried about, but I feel they need to be more worried about the DS then the Iphone. As sweet as the Iphone is, it's not going to take over the portable game market any time soon.

Foxstar Sixtail

@djlowballer:Blue Ocean is more geared towards people who want a system just to play video games, not a all in one PSP wonder. Most of the Blue Ocean customer base I wager are not intrested in Iphones and other "All in one" electronic super builds.

Apple doesn't control the Blue Ocean or they would have more market power and control then they do. What Apple is good at is releasing a product that might only do one thing, but do it very well (I-pod, I-Mac, etc.) much like Nintendo does.

Foxstar Sixtail

Figure in all costs (Power, consoles, games, Accesories, Subscriptions, ETC) and I would think 1000$USD a year is ballpark for the Average "core" gamer. Add to the handy costs and your bill is almost 2k. So I think the Iphone is in range for most of us.

What I dont get is nintendo´s lack of caring. They love their blue ocean of consumers, but apple already has several fleets patroling those waters. If I were a newstyle nintendo customer what would I want: DS or Sexy sleek Smartphone that also has decent games.

djlowballer

I'll be really sad if the IPhone ever becomes a major handheld gaming device. Seriously. I like my IPhone and stuff, but I just don't see it working in comparison to a real handheld like DS or PSP. Honestly I think Apple is overreaching a bit trying to do so much. Not to mention all the restrictions they have on the darn thing...

Shadowmist

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: What about raw dicks? I don't think I know anyone who'd touch dicks to boil them. :D

Like most everyone said, the iPhone isn't a threat to any dedicated handheld device...Yet. If Apple sees that it can make big money by developing a dedicated games player then that can be viewed as a threat. Though I highly doubt it. As the "i" market crowd certainly are the ones who'll buy it and they're not really seen as big on gaming. I stand to be corrected on this of course. =D

excaliburps

I'm thinking of buying this "IPHONE THE DESTROYER" for the same reason I bought my PSP.
AWESOME HOMEBREW.

@Kenofthedead: If this iReaper can give me a way to play Windows games on a Mac, I'm sold. But then again, if there was a way to do so on Linux... (and no, not WINE, I'm having difficulty running Source games.)

Eranmane

Remember the N-Gage?

Yeah, that's why Nintendo (and now Sony) aren't worried.

TRT-X

@djlowballer: Okay but if you use that logic, these gamers can only get an iphone if they, er, quit gaming. And once they get the iphone, they can't buy any games for it.

@Spartan1308™: I live in Europe. Like many people here, because I don't use my phone much, I have a pay-as-you-go model. You pay the full cost for the phone, then you only pay for calls you make, texts you send, and data you download. For me this probably works out at around $20 per year... Even people who use their phone more often or have a contract may likely ay more like $40/month than $70/month.

I could get an iphone if I wanted but er, no: it's unnecessary and also way too big.

quen

@everybest: Because Sony is talking. Don't you know how this works?

I think the logic is confused. Sure, people buy iPhone as a phone, but believe it or not, the games are the factor that seal the deal for quite a few people. It doesn't matter if I bought my iPhone because I wanted to waste money, flick through coverflow all day long or just feel super crazy cool, if I"m buying and playing games on it and it's taking the place of my PSP or DS on my commute to work, then it's competition.

We'll see what happens.

karasu is my homeboy

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: Hm, now that you mention the multimedia usage of the PSP, I notice that I have not taken my PSP with me even once since I bought the iPhone. Even though I own about 20 PSP games, I mainly used the device for watching movies...

L_K_M

@TRT-X:
Oh my god your comparing an Ngage to an iphone? jesus now i know why our country is falling behind other countries, morons like you making unintelligent comments. First off the iphone and ipod touch both play games and there are millions upon millions of them in the usa already. How many did ngage sell? Second ngage didnt do 3d games as far as i know and didnt have touch controls or an accelerometer. Lastly the iphone has support of sega, ea and other huge companies. Suggestion for america, stop watching the stupid reality shows and educate yourself before speaking and making an ass out of yourself.

geo1378

"over 70% buy it [PSP] just for games"

That doesn't strike me as sometehing to brag about, given that it is a gaming handheld. 30% are using it for movies?

Anyway, while I love my iPhone and bought a ton of games for it, I don't see it as a direct competitor to the DS or the PSP. It's more of a competitor than any other phone, but it's still not able to replace the dedicated handheld gaming devices; the input mechanisms are not gaming-oriented enough.

If it (and the iPod touch) had a D-pad and two buttons, that would be a different story.

L_K_M

@Shadowmist said: "Honestly I think Apple is overreaching a bit trying to do so much"

Keep in mind that Apple isn't doing anything at all. Apple doesn't give a rat's ass about the gaming market. They simply opened the iPhone to third-party devs and basically told them "Make games if you want to, it's better than smoking crack, I guess."

People, Apple does not care about you. They won't develop any games. They won't directly invest into games development. You can whine all day long about how bad Apple is, and how overpriced you think they are (I'm guessing with the allowances your moms give you, most things seem quite expensive, huh?), or how much you hate all those Starbucks visiting MacBook users, it doesn't matter. If you're posting here, chances are you're not Apple's target audience, not for Macs and not for the iPhone.

If the iPhone kills the PSP, it'll be by accident, not intentional.

L_K_M

Theu are correct, of course. People buying iPhones are buying them as phones, not gaming devices.

EmeraldDragon

@everyone- The real reason Sony and Nintendo aren't afraid of the iPhone is because games on cellphones are already a huge deal in Japan. I'm not talking the complete and utter shit that you get in America- cell phone games in Japan have been, for many years, lightyears ahead of America. A quick example (as I was looking at it the other day)- FromSoftware makes Armored Core and Tenchu games for Japanese cellphones- games that are in full, glorious 3D- most for around 5 bucks. These are some of the games that would work on my cellphone: [www.fromcapsule.jp]

Do you know of Sega's PuyoPop? You all probably do. $3 a month usage fee for phones in Japan. Ooh, 3d tennis!

Cellphone gaming isn't anything new in Japan, and some games on cellphones could rival, technology and possibly gameplay wise, games for the n64. But while there is a ton of money made through cellphone gaming, it isn't ever the primary use of the phone- gaming is often only done while in transit, not, for example, in the home or with friends at a McDonalds (the easiest place in Japan to go to find a game of Monster Hunter in progress). Guess what? The same is for the iPhone, at least in the eyes of Sony and Nintendo. For Americans, gaming on cellphones just took a big step, and now people are thinking it's incredibly new and novel- just like how when the Blackberry came out with a big *wow* factor being that it could send actual emails- another thing that Japanese phones have had for years.

And that is what the iPhone is- it's just another phone that can play games. Sure, it has a rather hefty processor and a touchscreen, but its primary design and focus is that of a phone. The only thing that makes the iPhone stand out, in terms of what it can do compared to a Japanese cellphone, is that it has a touch screen- seriously. I don't know all what a iPhone can do, because I don't give a rats ass, but all the features I know of- GPS, maps, internet, youtube, other boring stuff- is very standard on almost all phones in Japan (I can't say every phone as they make simple models for children and old people to use that only work as a phone). So games? Why is that so special? Oh, right, because in English speaking countries cellphone games are crap.

But yeah- Nintendo's main demo for the DS are school chillun, who don't own cellphones. Sony's demo for the PSP are, well, gamers. People that expect to spend a lot of time playing a game. Due to size limitations (based on the fact that the data must be transmitted to the phone) most cellphone games are small, and as such can't offer a ton of content- the same will go for the iPhone, you're going to see a bunch of small arcadey games. Not the same market of the PSP or the DS (though both sell, quite successfully, arcadey games).

Sorry for writing so much, but people here are completely failing to recognize that gaming on cellphones is not a competing market for portable gaming devices- it's a parallel market, one that offers products similar to portable gaming devices, but one in which peope are not exclusive in their purchases. Cellphone gaming is not a big deal to Sony or Nintendo as it has already existed in Japan for many years without impacting the sales of either of their devices, and as such, the iPhone is not, and will not be, seen as a threat.

Oh- and the iPhone also won't do well in Japan- the few people I have met that own them complain that text input for mails is near goddamned atrocious- where email is the norm and phone calls are the exception, the iPhones slow input time for kana (compared to cellphones) will kill it in Japan.

denki

@denki: Actually, typing romaji is faster on the iPhone than on Palm devices with actual keyboards, and the iPhone has neat handwriting recognition system for kanas and kanji.

L_K_M

@denki:Finally, something I can say is a comment of the week.

Foxstar Sixtail

Honestly, if I ever buy an Apple product, it'll probably just be a new iPod (iTouch and iPhone don't support Song Summoner...). As for right now, though, I have a pay-as-you-go phone I hardly ever use, as well as DS and PSP that I both play more often than the three current-gen consoles I own. (Wii, 360, and PS3.)

I have 10 PSP games, 12 DS games, and who knows how many gameboy/GBA games floating around. And I don't like that the iPhone/iTouch doesn't support external flash memory. Sure, the PSP may only use Memory Sticks, but at least you won't be paying upward of $500 for 32GB of space.

Also, if you are at all tech savvy (which I am not) then you can easily use the PSPs multimedia capabilities. And do people not realize that the PSP piracy is a big reason as to why a lot of developers aren't supporting it? It's your actions that are killing it. Clearly.

And the iPhone is different from a gaming handheld in that you can save up and pay for said handheld, pay for it, and that's that (aside from purchasing the games); with the iPhone, you have to get a plan that a lot of people in today's American market honestly cannot afford.

Now, if they released an American version of the Ace Attorney: Haruhi Suzumiya flash game on it, I would totally be eating my words right now. XD

Actually, to be honest, I probably use my Zune more than anything else. Though I guess that says a lot about me...

armless-phelan

@denki: Damnit, the iPhone does have pressure sensitivity, I don't know what I was thinking. But anyway, without a physical feedback the timing will be slower, as the user must recognize input has taken place.

denki

@L_K_M: I didn't say romaji, I said kana. Japanese people don't really use romaji when writing mails to other Japanese. Not including things like small and voiced characters (as well as modified bilabial characters) and punctuation, the base Japanese kana syllabary is composed of 45 characters- something that isn't becoming on the iPhone's screen. To type in Japanese on an iPhone, there are 3 methods- the standard method, to touch each of the gyo-groupings a specified number of times to get the desired result (for example, to get "ko" we'd hit "ka" 5 times [ka, ki, ku, ke, ko]), the tree method, where hitting a gyo group opens up a a tree of the 5 available characters ("ka", then select "ko"), and the keyboard method, where, like with computers, you type "k" then "o" (but Japanese have slow typing skills on keyboards). All methods are slower than using a regular phone due to the input latency on the iPhone, and that Japanese aren't used to lifting their fingers from a device when typing- the fingers are always resting on the buttons, where changes in input pressure register key input- something that can't be done on an iPhone.

And writing recognition software is even slower- it might take half a sceond to write a character, and that character has to be properly recognized (HA!), before the user can continue. In half a second most Japanese people have already typed an entire word on their phones.

So while typing, using the alphabet (or languages that have few enough characters that can be fit on the screen at the same time) might be fast on an iPhone, it certainly ain't so for kana.

denki

Lol @ sony saying the DS isn't a competitor.

CCCombobreaker

Owning an unlocked/jailbroken iPhone (along with an unlocked HTC Kaiser, with the Sony Ericcson Xperia X1 catching my eye), I can say that if Apple wanted to be a viable, serious gaming threat, it's simply going to need some sort of tactile feedback to go along with the accelerometers.

Without the tactile feedback, it's just beyond annoying. I mean, try using an emulator with it! For that matter, try one of the action/rpg/fps apps for the iphone, and tell me that the touchscreen and accelerameters are all that it needs.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the Kaiser's layout either, but at least I can work with it better.

No buttons or add-on = No threat to Nintendo or Sony in my book. The World can only have so many Monkey Balls...

Soldier_CLE

@denki: I obviously realize that you didn't say romaji, which is why I wrote about kana as well as romaji; I merely thought I should point out that typing romaji isn't an issue because it seems to be a common criticism from non-iPhone-owners.

The iPhone is the first phone I've used to write Japanese (my previous phones didn't support it at all), so I can't compare it to other cell phones in the speed-of-writing-Japanese area. I'll just take your word for its disadvantages in that area.

L_K_M

@geo1378:

"...morons like you making unintelligent comments."

see

"ngage didnt do 3d games"

SkullWolf

I agree that while the iPhone may be a big deal, and has important games, it may not be a big deal to gaming. So far I'm more impressed with the 3D and skeptical about the controls.

As for a "PSP phone" I've been thinking - a phone with hot game abilities isn't really my thing, but if the next PSP could slot a GSM SIM card and pair to a Bluetooth headset (DON'T FORGET A2DP! That would be laaaaame like an iPhone, or OSX 10.4 Tiger!) I think it would be pretty cool. Questionably handy, but it could work if you have a headset always paired or only do outgoing calls.

fuchikoma

@L_K_M: Sorry then. Am totally not aware of non-Japanese iPhone criticism, as they have only just become availible in Japan and I don't really pay attention to foreign (non-Japanese) cellphone news (just like how you all don't pay attention to cellphones from other countires as well). Didn't even know what the hell a blackberry was until I went back to the states about 3 years ago- I thought it was just a PDA.

Anywhat, Japanese type kana scary fast on their cellphones, and Japanese cellphones also have an incredibly decent predictive library of kanji, allowing for very high speed input. Congrats on getting a phone that can do Japanese (all phones everywhere, just like all OSes/games/anything, should offer methods for all languages anyway), too bad it's just not a good phone for typing Japanese (from a I've-used-Japanese-cellphones-all-my-life perspective [not my perspective, but a native Japanese person's perspective]).

More things I have thought of-
One of the other problems that limits speed on the iPhone with Japanese input is that the predictative library for kanji is displayed below the word on the touch screen- which makes perfect sense, but is not ergonomical- the thumb will naturally be at its neutral position at the location of the keyboard, but for kanji selection must be stretched upward to select the kanji. The thumb curls inwards and down, so going up uses it in an "uncomfortable" manner. Doesn't really sound like a big deal, but it eventually puts strain on ligaments that Japanese aren't used to using when typing on cellphones. It's these kinds of things that designers look at intensely when designing devices, but as the iPhone was primarily designed for a western (or alphabet-using) market, conversion to the Japanese market has met pitfalls. Though I assume that iPhones also have predictive western dictionaries, I'd have to think that it would still be faster just typing out the entire word, so the complaint becomes null.

(oh, and I'm not trying to be confrontational with anyone, and not refering to anyones' points anymore, it's just my mind starts snowballing. I'll be thinking about this subject for the next week probably.)

denki

@sir_carrot: That would also cost upwards of $1000 so will most likely fail before launching.

gencid

You know why they don't fear it? Because it's not as big as you people make it out to be, that's why! Just to the really nerdy people it's like the holy grail, but the much vaster majority it's an unkown. And yes SADLY there will be better products then this icrap, like the ishit toilet, and the ifucku sex doll etc... But oh well, let Apple continue with their iphone "sales".

redrabbit

If anything, the iphone would probably become the Wii of the handheld market. By that I mean catering to the casual gamers. I've fiddled with an iphone and I really can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would be to try to play Ace Combat X or God of War on one.

Bricked

I actually read an interesting op-ed about this not too long ago. I would say from the jump that no, people do not buy the iPhone primarily as a phone. If I wanted the iPhone just for its telephony purposes I wouldn't have spent $400 on it oh so long ago. I would have bought a much cheaper phone. The iPhone is ALL about its special features.

Here are some interesting quotes from that article I was mentioning. It's a BEEFY article though that's worth checking out in its entirety:

"The Sony PSP is already in troubling waters, staring at the writing on the wall and trying everything it can to wash it all away. Despite impressive hardware sales, the Sony PSP is facing a huge identity crisis. Is it a media device or a gaming device? That question is further amplified by its consumers' behavior. Countless PSP owners on the Internet claim using the PSP more as a media device than a gaming one, and sales figures back that up.

Global PSP hardware sales for 2007 jumped 45.8% while PSP software sales only rose a measly 1.5%. That hardware sales bump also may have been fleeting, as it was recently announced that PSP sales decreased 17% from May 2007 to May 2008. Such astonishing numbers lead to the inevitable question, for what purpose are all of these new PSP owners using the portable? There are a lot of non-gaming applications for the PSP including music and movies - a huge selling point for the PSP for some time because of its sizable screen - homebrew applications, and Web browsing. There is also a frightening amount of piracy going on, not exactly something any game publisher is happy about.

The iPhone, even before its recent SDK release and hardware upgrade, already had all of these uses out of the gate, backed by the number one provider of digital music downloads, Apple and its mighty iTunes store. It also does it with a sleeker device and a touch screen, built in flash drive, and as of July 11, a competitive price tag at $199 - only $30 more than the PSP. When the 3G iPhone comes out it'll also have high speed internet available anywhere 3G is provided, powerful gaming and non-gaming applications on the App Store, and the ability to download them wirelessly. This is all without mentioning that the iPhone has the same screen size, roughly twice the processor speed, and twice as much RAM. Additionally, the iPhone has a huge development community who have been building applications for hacked phones since day one, including the much coveted emulators available on the PSP.

...

Given the overlap of features with the PSP, the iPhone and iPod Touch are such "direct" non-competitors that the threat seems very real. There are still a lot of questions though, including how many people will own them compared to PSPs and whether PSP owners would really see it as a good platform to convert to as they may see the games as too simple, certainly nothing sporting the production values of a God of War: Chains of Olympus."

Source: [www.gamer20.com]

1oneWON

Oh and in regards to the article I mentioned, it is interesting though because there are still tons of problems for the iPhone.

As it mentions it's not really considered a gaming platform or ideal gaming platform off the top of people's heads.

There has also been a resistance to convergent hardware meant for multiple purposes, something mentioned in books like "Convergence Culture." For some reason a LOT of people still carry around multiple devices capable of doing certain things. There are kids out there with Sidekicks for texting and AIM, a second cell phone for calls, and an iPod for music.

As a developer/publisher you can only price the games but so high meaning they're are no huge windfall profits that justify high development budgets which could effect the quality of the games on the iPhone.

There's the control input on the iPhone which the article suggests can be remedied with programmed on-screen touch controls far better than what we've seen on the hacked games since developers were basically working "in the dark" before the SDK.

It won't supplant either the PSP, but hypothetically it has the ability to. It's doubtful people would actually do that though. Still the PSP software sales vs hardware sales discrepancy is a hell of problem for Sony regardless of the iPhone.

1oneWON

@denki: I'm from Europe, so people over here don't have Blackberries, either :-)

When typing in English or German or French or Spanish, the predictive input on the iPhone actually replaces the typed word with the predicted word by default, so you typically only have to reach up if you don't want to replace the word, which rarely happens with those languages (but happens often if you're typing Swiss German, which has no official spelling rules and thus no dictionary, which means the iPhone constantly tries to replace typed words with different words if I don't turn auto-correction off).

It's different for Japanese input, where the typed characters typically don't identify a specific unique kanji, so you almost always have to select what you actually meant. It's never bothered me personally, but then I don't know how other cell phones work.

L_K_M

I think the Sony guy has it right: the iPhone is a communication device first. The games are there as a value-add for people who will already buy it. Nintendo and Sony wouldn't worry, especially considering the price.

Until devices can prioritize power for phone use only (shut down all entertainment functions when battery reaches a certain threshold that you can set - does this exist already?), I'll need a sturdy phone with a long battery life, as it's my only line.

Aside from that, ergonomics. The PSP is pretty comfortable to use, but sometimes I even find that the NDS is small/thin enough to make my hands hurt. I can't really imagine wanting to play on something smaller, especially with a touch screen and no tactile feedback, even if it was just during commutes.

inkymorning

Nintendo probably doesn't care about the iPhone, and if they do, they will want to work on things for their portable to make them better than Apple's product, a vvery expensive product Nintendo would never try to compete with, but only in gaming stuff and casual applications, communication isn't Nintendo's stuff...

Sony, in the other case, wants an iPhone of their own and will release something sooner or later, it would not surprise me to see the PSP2 become a competitors for iPhone instead of Nintendo's next console.

VakeroRokero