I hate this patent sueing crap. I think unless a company that files a patent makes something from it within a certain timeframe they lose the patent.

kenjara

This is disgusting. I hear news of crap like this almost daily, of people suing others over anything. I mean, you know a society is headed down the wrong path when a lady spills coffee on herself and takes the restaurant that served it to her to court-- and wins.

If you ask me, the U.S is over-obsessed with the legal system. When you have "companies" without even a website, or even a phone-book listing holding patents just so they can sue (and not before waiting until their target to make millions of "their idea"!) and make easy money, something's up.

Coquiton

@PatMan33: Ok so this is the patten of the technology invented by this Brad Armstrong guy it has pictures of game controllers he didn't invent SNES and N64 that should signal some flags if you ask me. The patten was filed well after the snes and the n64. God I hope there are some gamers on the jury to call this BS.

Konchu

Looks like I'll be hitting up all my local game stores this week. A dozen cube controllers should me enough to get me through the conceivable lifespan of Brawl.

bob-e

Whoever holds the patent on disappointing E3 press conferences should take Nintendo to court.

PhilVillarreal

@Demonbird:It's not about obeying the law. It's about whether the patents are valid and applicable, or trolling bullshit. It's not like this is Immersion, who actively advance haptic technology and make products. This is from a firm whose only assets are patents, did they at any point actually try to sell these ideas? Or did they instead wait until someone had a similar idea and try to rip them off?

In regards to your analog stick question, it'll depend on how they're implemented. On Google Patent Search, I found this patent from Anascape - [www.google.com] regarding analog joysticks. It acknowledges other analog joystick patents in the prior art section.

hahnchen

I first read "Analscape"

I'm sure others did too.

Kenny

How dare they clog the channel by actually shipping products and not just suing other companies!

Justin42

This is why you should always obey patent and copyright law. Just because you are making more money than you know what to do with doesn't mean you are exempt from patent and copyright law.

I want more details. If the analog sticks on the gamecube and classic controller are in violation why not the nunchuk?

Demonbird

@PatMan33:Is that the correct patent? That's for analog pressure sensitive buttons on game pads. Does the Wii Classic controller sense how hard you press buttons? I thought it was a simple digital 1/0.

hahnchen

@ManjiKengo: I call BS on "Brad Armstrong" spending years of his life developing game controllers. The guy is more than likely buys patents for his company from original owners for $10,000 then holds on to them while the market develops then sues the pants off of anybody that "infringes" on "their" idea....usually in a court in Marshall, Texas where these lawsuits are infamous.

blackjaw

Incorrect Quoting guys.

It's CLOGGED THE CHANNEL. not DOGGED the channel.

Not all controllers were found to infringe the patent. Jurors agreed with Kyoto, Japan-based Nintendo that the rectangular Wii remote, when not used with the Wii Classic, and the ``Nunchuk'' controller attached to the remote don't violate the patent at the heart of the case.

Anascape's patent covers certain configuration of the remote to control six types of motions at the same time. The inventor, Brad Armstrong, spent years developing game controllers in his garage after ``he became fascinated with computers including video games'' in the late 1970s, Cawley said.

ManjiKengo

I guess there's only one thing to say about this: Kids these days.

Xander

@excel_excel:

When something smells, it's usually Anal-scape?

I'll throw myself out. :P

Pezdispenser

nintendo is infringing on my rights to have good games for the VC and Wiiware

tralfaz23

@excel_excel: What I don't get is why this patent exists when it came after the N64 analog stick, at least according to the patent posted by PatMan33. I can see why they wouldn't bother including a controller that isn't produced or sold anymore in the suit.

sohpi

patent trolls? let the courts decide..

the_answer

@excel_excel: Not to mention every third party controller to include an analog stick. That's a TON of controllers.

chuffhoncho

Yet another lawsuit filed in east Texas (aka plaintiff heaven aka loserville, TX). Doesn't this part of the country have a reputation for being easy on plaintiffs filing intellectual property infringement lawsuits? Things like this make me embarrassed that I used to live in Texas.

Geraldo

I don't get it, what does Anascape own or represent, and how are the console manufacturers ripping them off?

Snake726

Even if they lose the ability to sell Classic Controllers and GC reissues, can't they just design and release a new Classic Controller? Hopefully, one that doesn't require a cord plugged into the Wiimote.

Make me a wireless Classic Controller, Nintendo...this, I command!

Arklop

@Mokka: paid...not payed...

Mokka

@PatMan33: What I don't get is why the N64's analog stick was exempt from this, that makes no sense at all, the same could be said for the dreamcast controller.

in the words of Edgeworth dealing with Larry Butz "something about this smells...and you know what they say..."

excel_excel

So Sony and Micrsoft did not "dog the channel" but payed nevertheless?

Poor Anascape...I think they would have made so much money with their game pads.

Mokka

can't get*

-_-

KnightsofRound

Ok despite my sometimes severe hatred for Nintendo, this is probably the dumbest case I've ever seen. I hope Nintendo wins this one to show stupid pointless companies that get a get a fuck ton of money for no god damn reason.

KnightsofRound

Would now be a good time to rush out and get a classic controller then?

TheDoomer

I still this is utterly ridiculous, and the fact that Anascape seems to barely exist makes it look even worse. Still not sure how this is infringement, but if Anascape is getting $21 million and having the products in question removed from the market, I guess it must be more legit than I give it credit for.

Xenigma

This whole thing seems dodgy.

Someone at a forum I go to posted this: [www.google.com]

Seems very... similar to some stuff I've seen before.

PatMan33

Second best controller ever!

MonkeyBiz

@chuffhoncho: there bloody always dogging the channel!
Wait...so Classic Controller inserting in Wiimore...violating patent? Classic Controller packed away nicely....not violating patent?

excel_excel

Sounds like Anascape is nothing more than a company invented to sue people.

Gotta love America...

Breetai

So does This mean that stores will bring down the controllers on shelves?
~Sigh~ some lawsuits really piss me off.

goldwings

Sounds pretty bad.... kinda like the sony/immersion thing before it i guess...

scuba2steve

Damn you, Ninty. Always dogging the channel like you own the place!

chuffhoncho

Are you kidding me?! I was gonna get a Gamecube for Christmas. Not any more. Thanks AnaTAKE. Take my gamecube, that is!
DAMMIT.

thewisestfool

Sigh... Just......... Sigh...

Tesla7zap

You guys need to stop giving anascape such a hard time. This is a legimate company that does more than just hold on to patents and sue... they also happen to squat on domain names and sell wiis for 320 bucks on craigslist. C'mon guys, give them some credit!

eastshore4

I say take it all the way to Supreme Court so they can realize just how f@#$ed up the patent system really is and fix it.

psychobaka

I don't get what the patent actually covers. Is it the dual analog configuration? The nunchuk doesn't violate, but the classic controller does? That's like suing for having more than one button on the controller. Gotta love it when people abuse the legal system.

Ed_209

I think it's kind of funny people are going through and pointing all these "faults" with the case. I'm glad that you've managed to do what the entire teams of microsoft, sony, and nintendo lawyers couldn't do in two or three kotaku posts.

M-26-7

To clarify, this is already on the "federal level." Nintendo lost at the federal District Court (trial court) level, and is appealing to the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit (which handles a bunch of cases, including patent ones).

nonpareil

Teacher: "Use sentence with the word 'Anascape' in it"

*looks around the class, then points at me*

Teacher: "You!...Stand up."

Knoxximus: *clears throat* "Since I am a patent troll, I'll let Nintendo do all the work 'anascape' with their monies."

Teacher: "Excellent....wait, WHAT?!?"

Knoxximus (360/PSN)

@KingBroly:
It's called prior art. When writing a patent, you have to acknowledge anything that might influence the invention in question. Where prior art gets you into trouble is if the prior art fulfills all claims of your patent, and was invented before filing.

ConstyXIV

It's a good thing Nintendo's got so much money to deal with such crap. Next thing you know they'll be sued for having a home button on the wiimote.

Metal_Slug_Solid

Why are their pictures of Nintendo controllers in the patent? If they were used when filing the patent, then the patent is void because you cannot use the design of others in order to promote your own idea.

KingBroly

Sounds like the patent describes any two-handed, SNES-style* controller with at least one d-pad, analog stick, and pressure-sensitive button. However, there is prior art in the Saturn Analog Controller. The SAC was released on August 31, 1996 in the USA with NiGHTS. The patent was filed on October 1, 1997. Unless there's something I overlooked, the SAC kills the patent.

ConstyXIV

@kenjara:I hate this patent sueing crap. I think unless a company that files a patent makes something from it within a certain timeframe they lose the patent.

And an eye for tying up production. Gotta discourage this crap somehow.

Arklop

People seem to be awfully edgy about Anascape and without good reason.

M-26-7

@Geraldo: I remember an interesting NYT article from a while back on the patent cases in East Texas...

"What sets Marshall apart from its neighbors is a red-hot patent docket. Four years ago, 32 patent lawsuits were filed in the Federal Eastern District of Texas, which includes Tyler, Texarkana and Marshall. This year, an estimated 234 cases will be filed in the district, a majority of them in Marshall.

What's behind the rush to file patent lawsuits here? A combination of quick trials and plaintiff-friendly juries, many lawyers say. Patent cases are heard faster in Marshall than in many other courts. And while only a small number of cases make it to trial - roughly 5 percent - patent holders win 78 percent of the time, compared with an average of 59 percent nationwide, according to LegalMetric, a company that tracks patent litigation."

Futrell

Dang, I'd better stock up on GC controllers then, I've already worn out 4.

Herabec

Anascape:
"We do what Nintendon' we-stopped-them-from-doing-by-suing-their-arses."

_Hayko

@Coquiton: While I agree with the overall sentiment of your statement, I feel it is important to note that in the case you mentioned, the plaintiff deserved to win. A woman pulls up to the restaurant with her 80 year old mother. Orders a coffee, asks for it at a cooler temperature than normal. The server says she can't do that, as its company policy that the coffee be served at a certain temperature. The plaintiff accepts that, and asks that it not be filled all the way, so she can add cream. She gets the coffee, her mother removes the lid, and it is filled to the brim. The scalding hot coffee (served at a temperature 20 degrees F above what is considered the maximum temperature by the state government) burned her mother through her pants so fast that by the time they the woman had gotten her pants off, she had severe third degree burns. McDonald's lost the case because of the two mistakes they made, serving the coffee incredibly hot, and not leaving room for cream as the plaintiff asked for. There was little dispute about it, as those working at the time corroborated the plaintiff's story.

That case is a case of Corporate negligence, the case in this topic is one of opportunistic bullshit. Anascape clearly filed that patent just for potential suits later on, and had no plans on pursuing it in any manner, except in court.

ZeroBlade

US Supreme Court... if the ban is put in place, HELLO PLAYASIA.

zakufever

@ZeroBlade: That still doesn't make sense though. McDonalds was "negligient" by keeping their coffee within governmental standard meant to keep the coffee safe for consumption?? Because the person in the drive through window forgets to accomadate your special order you don't deserve millions of dollars. Plus as you said, SHE TOOK THE LID OFF AND SPILLED IT ON HERSELF. It's unfortunate for her, but McDonalds or any other corporation shouldn't have to pay for a mistake like that.

In this case, of course I don't know all the details but it seems kind of crappy. When did they first start this thing? GC has been out quite a while...

donquijote23

I'd like to see the legal system become a bit more discriminating about patent squatters. Especially when the patents are as vague as this one of Anascape's.

wild homes desires a pudding!

@ZeroBlade:

I still don't think it was a reasonable lawsuit, mainly because of 3 reasons:

1) It is widely accepted that the best temperature for coffee is ~200 degrees. McDonalds served coffee at ~180 degrees. It would not have made much difference even if the coffee was served at 160 degrees.

2) The way she opened the coffee. On a parked car, she put the coffee between her legs, and attempted to open the coffee by pulling on the lid from the side opposite of her towards her. I think it would be commonly accepted that bracing a styrofoam cup full of a hot liquid with your thighs while opening the lid is a bad idea.

3) Only 700 burn cases total (meaning from slight to serious burns) had been filed in 10 years at the time of the trial. Here's a fun statistic: 700 cases in 10 years represents just 1 injury per 24 million cups sold, according to a consultant.

Maybe it's just me...but when I'm given a hot cup of coffee, I know that spilling it on myself at point-blank is gonna cause heavy damage.
The case wasn't arguing that she got hurt, it was arguing that she got hurt too much.
Am I the only one that finds that stupid? When I'm handling a cup of hot liquid, the last thing that comes to my mind is "ok, at this temperature, if it is spilled on top of someone, it's only gonna cause [specific amount of damage]. Okay, that's low enough so I don't get sued if some one spills it"

Hot coffee is meant to be served hot. Hot liquids on your body mean serious damage.
How is McDonalds responsible for that? Were they supposed to gauge amounts of damage caused by their serving temperatures?

Coquiton

It's surprising how much controller infringing has gone on in recent years. It's like all these companies designed controller concepts just so they could do this. Notice it's not any of the common third party accessory makers?

Ryodestined

"dogged the channel"? Is that what the kids are calling it nowadays?

dry-roasted-peanuts

Jesus Christ that coffee lawsuit is so idiotic I can not even comprehend how the women won.

Shit I should try to spill hot coffee directly at my face then sue whomever gave it to me because I asked it cooler.

And about this, I concede that a lot of companies "steal" ideas, but at the same time many people come up with the same idea at the same time. We all should see the logic evolution of the videogame industry and patent every little thing that is 99.9% sure to be invented in the future so when someone comes and makes it (of course it has to be popular if not is not worth it) we sue them till they are in red numbers.

I sure love me some US legal system....

WDYC

Since when did the court system and this ENTIRE COUNTRY stop using some common sense when dealing with shit?

tshack

This is god punishing Nintendo for E3 2008.

Maniclysane

So what? No more classic controllers? WHAT'S GOING ON!?

jackal27

Sounds like they just decided to come around to be greedy and try to make huge cash off of what Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft created, only to fade off and never be heard from again... until they sue someone else for something completely random. I hope that Anal-Scape fails and dissapears for good.

Anyway, there's no way that all three companies could be infringing on their patents. They jus sound like ignorant, money hungry pigs. Don't you just hate people?

NESTeen

Leigh, when i read the title i thought that perhaps you were going to dig into the issue a little: Like (for instance) why the N64 controller isn't covered under this. Did the technology switch between generations of controller?

I mean, AFAIK, the N64 controller only had one vibrating bit in it (with the rumble pak of course!) and the PS1 dual shock controller had two contained within the handles - both before the filing date of the patent. I just don't see how anything that can be considered 'obvious' extentions of these two technologies could belong to anyone else?

Duoae

I don't actually understand how this has gone through this far against Nintendo. Maybe (maybe!) I could see them winning against Sony and Microsoft, but every single piece of technology covered by the patents (that I could find after googling for a little while) seems to have already been used in the N64 controller, which predates the patents. This includes analog sticks and tactile feedback / rumbling.

The difference between this and the Immersion lawsuit against Sony is that Immersion actively made products and licensed technology in the PC realm to companies for years before the Playstation came out.

From what I can tell (granted, I'm not a lawyer or a judge), Nintendo has prior art over Anascape's patents and that should at least protect Nintendo if it doesn't negate the patents almost entirely.

Auhim

Error in the post: A U.S. District judge IS a federal judge. The federal courts are divided into 3 tiers: the U.S. District Courts, the U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeals, and the U.S. Supreme Court. A District Court judge is the trial judge for the federal courts systems.

Come on Kotaku, a little research please?

SWATJester

@SWATJester: LOL. Looks like we really do need that Supreme Court game! :P

Pammeh

Feh, not even Superman could defeat Nintendo's Lawyers.

Hyperfludd

ATTENTION - NEW ADDITION TO WII SOFTWARE ON WII SHOP CHANNEL

Everybody Dogs Channel
Block usage: 90
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marmidukestank

How stupid. Anascape is obviously just looking to score some easy cash. Patent a whole bunch of random things and wait for someone to come up with a similar idea. Then sue. It's like the lottery, there's no real thought into what ideas they come up with. Just something that's barely good enough to get patented, which isn't exactly hard given our patent system.

Shadowmist

@Xenigma: This is why I believe it to be just a simple, stupid case of patent squatting. If this was a guy in his basement actually inventing things, or a couple of guys out in the garage developing ideas and working prototypes for such small devices like this... where are these guys who were so unfairly downtrodden upon by the big evil corporation? Why haven't they ever come out and said 'We just want recognition for this because we developed it?', instead of some hogwash about wanting to 'enter the channel' like they ever had plans to do such a thing?

I don't imagine people who actually create things, actually develop things would be so dispassionate about the things they are creating that they wouldn't try to reach out to a community for support. If this was some hobbyist who spent his hard earned money on developing electronics in his free time for gaming... wouldn't that person be reaching out to the community his hobby cultivates? The network of newsboards, the gaming industry news sites, even simply hobbyist electronics rags or trade shows?

No, in essence, I think there's a few of these LLC groups out there dedicated to doing this exact thing, in a variety of industries based on disposable incomes, and this is just the latest of their targets.

Ampillion = That Man.

Anal-scape lol, knew they were assholes!

hayisforhorses

What a bunch of BS. "Hey everybody, let's just patent things people will make in the future so that when they do, since we won't ever make them, we'll sue them and make the money they made!" Got to love your patent system.

kylo4

@Breetai: Correct. This seems to be a patent troll. Fucking patents.

L_K_M

I wonder if Nintendo will actually go the distance and spark some reform in this area. MS and Sony both cut their losses and settled because it was the cheaper way out, but it seems that Nintendo is bent on justice being served.

Is there a real possibility of classic controller's being taken off the market or is it something that will be held up in appeals court forever? Thats the only thing that really concerns me.

Ptolemy

@Auhim:

I dismissed the Immersion lawsuit against Sony almost immediately. Anyone who was around and "in-the-know" when rumble was introduced in Playstation controllers knows that the vibrations were not caused by any kind of mechanism or component, but tiny sumo wrestlers in the controller.

Clearly a different technology altogether.

Nalmatic

Here's hoping that Nintendo buys out Anal-scape and Get the royalty that being paid out MS and sony.

And also, This case seems like and smells like a whole boat load of crap that been sitting at the dock for 5 years. Sounds like this person basically copies patents. Change the wording around some. Add some extra words that sound good and offical. Add different art to show what it should work like and work like. And Wa-La, Has a copied patent that he can use to sue people up the wazoo. And walk off filthy rich. It a twisted, "Stick it to the Man" Kind of way.

nightwheel

"Anascape" is just one bastard - "Brad Armstrong". There's no company, no office, no products. Just registered dozens of random patents, sitting on them for years, and then preying on the wealthiest companies. The victim companies are the only ones that actually produce something.
Also, it's interesting how the law of "prior art" is never taken into account.

It's nice to know that at least several such bastards have been killed professionally in the recent past. Though if a company is well-set-up, any attacks like these won't put thousands of its employees on the street.

somarix

People will jump at any bullshit reason to sue somebody...

DestinyGuy

@M-26-7: Didn't you know that 99% of Kotaku posters are actually Super Lawyers that know every legal loophole in the book.

BlackMage66652

@ZeroBlade: Never heard it like that before. I always just hear "Some dumb woman spilled coffee on herself and sued McDonalds because there was no label on the coffee that said it would be hot" or something along those lines.

But this patent stuff is bullshit. It's stopping a lot of potential innovation because some company wants to make a quick buck off Nintendo by hitting them with patents.

Vault

@Coquiton: I completely agree with u. I hate this law abusing people.

But what's the patten for? The analogs? Letters on the buttons? ;| Can't see why controlers like the classic one are violation and the wiimote/nunchuk aren't :S

Solidus

they are the main reason why the sixaxis didnt have rumble

Ive also heard that ms had bought part of 'em, not sure, theyve also been really obscure...

Icyme

They're not looking to enter the market. It's obvious that the only interest they have in that patent is the license it gives to sue people.

MorbidLilim

The case in entirely bogus. The jury may have seen Nintendo's recent success and saw them as the big bad company who stole from the little underdog and made that verdict. They might not have been informed properly about the controllers which get their source from the not-included-in-suit Nintendo 64 controller.

I wasn't there so this is all conjecture but I bet if Nintendo's lawyers made emphasis on year numbers like 1995/1996 and 2001/2002 that verdict wouldn't have come down like it did. Most regular folks don't know all the details about the game industry and its innovations. Gamecube/Wavebird and Wii Classic Controllers are all based on Nintendo 64 controller and are just evolutions.

Nintendo will win that appeal. People might criticize their transformation of the market or their stubbornness/control issues but nobody ever accused them of being idea thieves.
John Lucas

johnlucas