@exkon: I gots 2 trofies!

Ahsayuni

@exkon:
Well, aside from the annoyance of only one game supporting trophies out of the box (I can only guess Super Stardust HD's sales SKYROCKETED last night), it's pretty damn awesome. In-game XMB is very nice, even if it's a tad laggy when first activated in high processor-straining games like MGS4 or Uncharted. My 360 Guide tends to lag the same though, so I figure that's more of a common thing than anything else.

But I swear, you don't notice the absence of something until it comes back to you. Sending and receiving messages in-game is a snap, and I'm almost pissed it took them this long to do it.

Archaotic

@exkon: 2.40 is pretty freakin' sweet, thanks for asking.

Primebuster

@Archaotic: @Raziel Dune:
Sorry, I was not aware of that problem, it seems that it does not exist on the EU-marketplace as we have no third party advertising here. Every "ad" is related to marketplace content or game releases.

I agree with you that ads for "Burger King" would indeed suck and should be disabled for Gold members!

Starsky

@Archaotic: PC?

Oh right, you mentioned the Mac thing earlier D:

HotFootMcCook

Oh crap, the gantlet has been thrown down!!!

Let's see which service takes more of our money!!!

PS3 Owners: How's the 2.40 treating you?

exkon

@invictus2006:
I've enjoyed my share of games on it. But it's not my favorite console. Hell, none of the consoles available right now are my favorite.

Archaotic

Dems Fightin' words.

Ahsayuni

@Archaotic: you dont like the 360 do you?

invictus2006

@Starsky: what i mean is i'm giving them 50 a year to use live and yet i still see tons of ads plastered all over the marketplace whats Burger King got to do with me wanting to DL some Guitar Hero Song?

Raziel Dune

True that Sony! True that! Let's get the guns out and start blazing! YEEEEHAAAW!!!

gamerholic

@Starsky:
Well, it is kinda stupid that Live Gold members still see the ads plastered everywhere all over the Dashboard. If you're paying Microsoft, shouldn't you have the option to disable them? It'd save some much-needed screen space.

I know I'd love to not see ads for Burger King or some shooter I hate every time I turn my 360 on.

Archaotic

i like how sony is using psn to promote quality "indie" games , if you will. i love stardust, monsters, echochrome, and i can't wait for eden.(everyday shooter was cool, but it got boring way fast) i'll take a few quality titles like these over the sea of retro games xbl offers.

gooberbaby

@Raziel Dune: Since when do you pay for the marketplace?

Oh right, you don't...

Starsky

I hate when they talk about each other... Worry about your own damned store, first and foremost...

bobtheduck

hey why does the marketplace that i am paying for...have so many ads...yet the Playstation store has.....none....WAIT SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE...

Raziel Dune

its easy to scroll through downlaod games when the system has so few.

though i do say that the xbox market place needs a new layout

kommanderk

@helava:
Did you actually read the article at all? Honestly, he doesn't rip on MS that much, he just makes the (completely valid) point that Microsoft's current list-based system for the Marketplace is extremely clunky and not well-suited for a library as large as Microsoft has, which is why they're delisting titles. The PS Store's interface is better for showing off a wide range of content because the way the screen is set up, that's all.

What Lempel says isn't really flack. It's making a valid point that Microsoft is probably working to rectify as we speak. You think they like scanning through 120-item text-only lists to find a single piece of DLC? I sure as shit doubt it.

Archaotic

Well, at least on the XBLA marketplace there actually IS content to scroll through dear Mr.
Lempel...

Starsky

@Mr.Sad: Hit the nail on the head.

Microsoft and Sony are just vying for the #3 spot in this current generation. It's exhausting to follow it all and was interesting, what, 8 months ago. Now, it's just blah blah blah to me. I could care less since there are only a few titles that are better on console than on PC or are only on consoles (Rock Band, GTA IV, MGS4, Halo 3, et all).

And we all know the #1 spot is the PC, right right? :D

HotFootMcCook

Wii's online may not be a problem for Nintendo now, but it will be five years from now. Look at Sony, scrambling to catch up to Live's functionality. Nintendo's going to have the same problem tenfold when they finally decide to stick their nose into the online space in any sort of serious way.

I'm sorry, but the PSN flack's comments are ludicrous. Having used both interfaces extensively, the 360's interface wipes the floor with the PSN interface - even the new one.

helava

So, is this going to be like how Sony touted their 100% BC on the PS3? Wonder if we give it a couple months and we see them start delisting crap games.

Darkest Daze

@Mr.Sad:
The sad thing is that while Sony and MS fight back and forth, Nintendo just sits there at the top of the pile with their arms folded. They don't NEED to change anything, and it doesn't fit their business model to spend any unnecessary money unless they HAVE to, and clearly, with their sales right now, they don't have to do anything.

Wii won't have solid online, ever. We should probably just accept that at this point.

Archaotic

@Mr.Sad: Haha, you got that right. I don't consider it a total disappointment, but it certainly does leave much to be desired. Maybe that's why they keep themselves out of these shooting matches.

phinehas

Aaaawwwwww shit! Thems be fighting words!!! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!

Cartman86

i like it how Sony and MS fight back and forth about each others' online offering and how they find ways to improve upon it.

Nintendo is a total disappointment. we speak, we cry, and they do nothing. i am only impressed by Mario Kart Wii's online functions. but there's still alot left to be desired.

Mr.Sad

@shichi:
Well, that interview predates the 2.40 roll-out. Lempel had no idea back then that the patch troubles would exist.

Archaotic

~sighs~ now's not the time to be tooting your horn when there is plenty of room for improvement and apparently there are people who have console issues after installing 2.40 (not me though - i got 14 trophies :D)

shichi

But all their good games minus half their bad games is only like 10 games.

Furude

@Snake726:
Well, it's hard to really deny the PS Store's current incarnation has the ability to display a lot more on screen at once than the XBL Marketplace. If Microsoft spent less space on needless ads (despite people, y'know, paying them for the service), they'd have more "shelf space".

The irony of the situation is that the 2.40 firmware update includes the an option to display the PS Store's content in a scrolling list format, just like the XBL Marketplace.

Archaotic

No, Sony scrolls left and right.

That's the stuff, right there.

Snake726

As many have mentioned, neither Sony nor Microsoft have fantastic UIs. They've both been designed with a purpose, and both achieve that purpose well, but well designed UIs? i think not.

Delisting is more down to cost of content, rather than freeing up space. Downloading a demo costs Microsoft money, and if demo's aren't being converted to sales, then its costing Microsoft money. Rather than removing the games, they should just rmeove the demos. Thus theres still 100s of games but you dont get a demo of every single one.

I would welcome an upgrade to Microsofts marketplace. It was great when there was limited content, but now theres loads, its becoming cumbersome to use.

The 360 guide seems to have a function that shows content for the game your playing, but its only used in a couple of games. Id really like to see this available as standard on the guide. So you just press the guide button and can instantly find content for (just) the game your playing.

Mr_Ed

"Raziel Dune at 01:59 AM Reply *
hey why does the marketplace that i am paying for...have so many ads...yet the Playstation store has.....none....WAIT SOMETHINGS WRONG HERE..."

you're not paying for the marketplace. it comes free with an xbox silver account that costs no money. the only thing the $50/yr xbox gold account gives you that the free service doesn't is the ability to play ranked matches online. almost all other features of xbox live are free.

pumpkinpunker

Just home will differentiate each other... but im still curious to see what will come to be.

bubble-bee

But sony is speaking...bla bla bla... but in the end, u'll see all the crap out there (like flow and some more that fit good together)

bubble-bee

At least marketplace has content to scroll... Well, Sony is speaking but in the end will be the same. Btw, if they call flow and so on quality games?..well, then xbox market place offers much more...

bubble-bee

@HotFootMcCook:
SNES and PS2 are my two favorite consoles of all time. Not quite sure which one tops the list though, since both of them had such amazing libraries it's hard to really be sure.

I also have a soft spot in my heart for the original Playstation, since it had some of my favorite RPGs ever. Suikoden II, of course.

Archaotic

Hm, if we're strictly talking about UI, both systems have their issues, but overall I find Sony has the better interface. To elaborate:

Sony has a really good UI concept in the XMB; it's easy to understand, looks good, and is visually consistent throughout the system. Their biggest issue is that items are placed badly - some of it is in the profile, otherwise it may be in one of the many settings, and if you have a disc in the drive it may show up in the Game, Video, or Music categories. There are some nifty overlays (e.g., when hovering over a game), but they take a good amount of time to load. Some of the functionality is not well labeled (i.e., most of the ones you access via Triangle), and Sony's pragmatic practice of only allowing UI path to an action (e.g., turning the Information Bar on/off) means a lot of people will spend time just hunting for the one menu item in that one spot that'll do what they want.

Microsoft's UI is geared to the hardcore and the frequent gamer, and is almost offensively unfriendly to newcomers. It requires that you log in to a profile even if you just wanted to sit down for a quick multiplayer session, worsened by its insistence to log you onto the MS network (and worse, if it's unable to find the network it takes even longer to time out). It provides good "recently played" lists, but offers little categorization beyond that; before the last patch, you actually had to scroll through your entire music collection if you streamed it from a Media sharing device as one giant 5000+ item list. The interface often lags when loading (i.e., your cursor stops responding). The appearance of the interface isn't visually or navigationally consistent: the Marketplace blade is a blade but looks completely different from the other ones, buttons can go into lists or list of lists or full page splash screens or the overlay Dashboard, etc. They optimize for the frequent player's "workflow", at the expense of shunning all the other users from easily accessing content.

So from purely a UI perspective, I think the guy's right in criticizing MS's interface. Not that they can't improve on theirs either.

Datheron

People are saying that the 360 has alot more games on it's marketplace, that's true. But in my experience the majority are either games I can find elsewhere for cheaper, or for free. There are some cracking games on there though.

PSN may not have as many but they certainly have a nice selection of original games. Hell, I'm sill playing PixelJunk Monsters, Super Stardust HD and Blast Factor ever since release. Talk about value for money!

Firebreedpunk

@Starsky: I think the same goes for Canada. All ads on the market place are game related. I haven't seen anything that seemed too out of place.

@Primebuster: No one asked you!!! I haven't downloaded the new update yet because my friends PS3 bricked when he did so I'm scared now... :(

NeVeRMoRe666

Scrolling is hard? Quick someone shut down the web!

drivenstorm

I dont really know, I find the PSN interface really hard to navigate myself. Where as the XBL interface is pretty simple. PSN did get alot better with the 2.0 update, but I still think its too hard to actually find what you really want.

In otherwords, imo this guy doesnt have anything to be bragging about.(additionally I dont really see a whole lot in his comment to begin with)

RuneX21

everyone talks about the lag for 360 UI, I see both systems lag as each other. Not that i care that much coz i enjoy playing games more then just looking and using the UI

invictus2006

@Archaotic: "If Microsoft spent less space on needless ads (despite people, y'know, paying them for the service), they'd have more "shelf space"."

Or atleast put up good ones, like the beer ad display on Kotaku right now. It's making me thirsty. :| The only other feature I could ask of the PSN Store is a search function.

Replica23

I have downloaded nearly 50 titles off XBLA, and haven't had a problem finding what I want. If you don't know what your looking for or just browsing, it can be overwhelming. A change in the interface would be a better solution, but de-listing some of the really bad games wouldn't be a bad idea either. You won't find poor selling games at retail a year later either.

Oh, to the people bitching about the ads on XBL; they are game related and are more than appropriate. There is nothing wrong with letting people know about new downloads or special events happening on Live. If you find them that aversive, I suggest you turn off your tv and read a book.

gogators88

@Firebreedpunk:

Completely agree that most games are available elsewhere, but many 360 versions are HD updated, with leaderboards, and online multi-player.

I still play Uno loads, and its probably took about 10 minutes to write :)

Theres also the fact that most people want what they know. Look at the xbox forums, and everyone is asking for updates of games they've already played. Sony do a very good job of advertising their new independant stuff, Microsoft are just useless at it!

Mr_Ed

@Datheron:
You make too much sense, are you really from the internet?

zleilndka

Better than delisting after firmware after you bricked some of your users consoles. Keep trying Sony!

Hyperplasia

Damn Sony getting desperate. Why dont they criticize graphics? Nope they would rather crit th UI.

EzeeT

"scrolling up and down lists isn't the easiest way to find things"

You mean like trying to find find a particular album when you have over 4000 music tracks on your PS3?

Yup, scrolling down through a list on a WIDESCREEN TV sure is stupid... you'd have to be really stupid to choose that UI...

...but you'd have to be REALLY SPECIAL to criticise your competitor for doing the same.

nemo

Please Kotaku, just tell someone at Microsoft from me how to solve this. All they have to do is make it so that demos are listed in a separate list and make it so that when you press a letter key on your keyboard/keypad the list jumps down to that letter, like on Windows. They could add a favorites list so we could easily get to rock band and ones we use often. I just dont think its that hard and delisting games is stupid. You dont see Wii delisting anything and they dont even have storage!

GOLD5

@Hyperplasia:

To be fair, Microsoft have killed their fair share of 360s with updates. Im sure when Nintendo have done so too.

Mr_Ed

"...Scrolling up and down lists isn't the easiest way to find things."

Funny, that's the exact same reason I dislike Sony's XMB interface.

Well, that and their insistence on mispelling the word "cross," anyway.

Number41

I was pleasantly surprised by the comments for this article. All those people who call Kotaku Sony haters must still be asleep.

How nice.

fatheadwilson

@Hyperplasia: Weren't there only 2 updates from MS that didn't cause headaches? Or do you suffer from amnesia?

slomo788

Jesus Sony don't start now. How about talking to devs about implemeting 2.40 huh Lempel? Who the fuck named you PR? This BS smack talk, leave this to Tretton. You have better things to do. For instance, why not fill us in how Home is coming along? Hmm?

slomo788

Love it or hate it, he is right.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@nemo: Yeh em, try pressing square it groups them by album and other things... It pays to read the manuals or at the very least wait for the pop-up.

Ryuujin1024

well uhh, i'd take a scrolling experience rather than going all the way to the right of the menu and then have to go down manually and go back left in a zigzagging movement just to read everything. how about a little auto-return in the store sony? that is the single most aggravating thing about the ps3. k i'm done ranting.

MormonJay

The snippy playground comments from the manufacturers are so boring. And in this case it's not even effective as it is supposed to point out Sony's accessibility advantage and it just points out how many fewer games they have for download.

crim

The In-Store Search function is really helpful :D

Reetesh

@okenny :): Its like the Hong Kong Alley Way Game Company saying that their Polystation 3 is better than the Playstation 3 because the games are included in its memory already.

Leobebes

Sony sure talks big especially after having the benefit of someone else's experience. I forget what the exact euphemism is for it but one could say that XBLA is experiencing to much content which is like a blessing and a curse. This is something Sony cant brag about.

okenny :)

@slomo788:

I'd hardly call this "smack talk"...Only on a game blog where everything is blown out of proportion would anyone see it as such. He's asked about the delisting and gives an honest straightforward answer. He's not trying to trash talk LIVE, he's merely telling the truth about scrolling long lists

LittleBigPlaneteer

It is a pain in the ass to scroll through 120+ games to find the one you want to play in your "games library."

Plus, it takes a while for the Xbox to load your list of games. So while I'm happy that I have so many great games to play on Xbox 360, I agree, Microsoft needs to fix this.

DugDawg

I agree with this.

Marketplace's organization is atrocious.

Much easier to see what you want on Sony Store.

EnigmaNemesis

well considering sony really doesn't have any content in their store..... they have no room to talk.

deathtastic

@Datheron: I'm not sure I understand what problem you're citing with the music playback-- from the first iPod patch in what, January 2006, the 360's supported full ID3-tag sorting for playback. So unless your music isn't tagged correctly-- which would not be the console's fault at all-- I can't see a situation where you'd have to scroll through a 5,000 item list.

wild homes is weathering cephalopod trouble!

I'm sure Microsoft is addressing this. Hell, there's stuff in the Marketplace I want to buy sometimes that I literally cannot find, due to it being an insane navigational nightmare.

Brendar

They should allow games to be sorted according to their metacritic scores :P

/or implement some sort of scoring/rating system themselves

lordargent

Hey Sony, stop bricking PS3s with your shitty software. Then you can talk shit. Oh, and come out with some games too. I have run out of Blu-ray movies to watch.

360Witz

@okenny :): Except they didn't. It's not a smack talk/trash talk/chest banging sorta comment, in fact, Lempel agrees with you that there's tons of content on the Live Marketplace and I guess we all agree, it could be organized better.

zoesch

I welcome the fact they are taking out the trash. More power to them.

drevid

"I think if I look over at the competitors' UI they may have some issues just displaying content, and scrolling up and down lists isn't the easiest way to find things"

I think if he applies that same comment to his own company he'll find that the XMB is in fact a vertical scrolling menu list. Talk about calling the kettle black.

Not to mention that we've had 'SCROLLS' for years, lists generally go up and down. Perhaps I should make my next grocery list sideways just to be more efficient.

merebito

@Furude:

I think te main problem is that Microsoft actually has good arcade games,and Sony is just jealous and wish their list could be that full.

YourAnthony

I've been holding off on 2.40 until they fix it properly.

exkon

Ah, the crap spewed out by fanboys. Having both systems, I have to say that the 360's menu system is easier to use than the PS3s, by far. Now maybe I'm just used to it, because the 360 has been out longer.

As far as him saying that Sony doesn't need to remove games because they have plenty of space, well thats because PSN has ALMOST NOTHING as far as downloadable games, epecially when you compare it to Live Marketplace. Even if you took only the good games on Marketplace, I'm pretty sure they'd outnumber all the downloadable games on PSN by a good margin.

Like I said I have both systems, so I'm not a fanboy. But I have to side with the Xbox side of this debate.

bodmodkub

@360Witz: Right, because a 360 fan has a right to complain about sony's bricked consoles... *coughRRoDcough*

bobtheduck

@bobtheduck:

RROD is over, get over it and try to find something else to use.

YourAnthony

I read the article and the guy was just stating an opinion. I didn't get the impression that he was 'talking trash', but I guess some people are a little touchy when it comes to every word a Sony rep says. Console wars do that to some people.

flashtut

@wild homes is weathering cephalopod trouble!: I'm talking specifically about streaming music and videos off of a computer via the Windows Media Player sharing features. I believe, prior to the 2007 Spring update, whenever you tried to connect to your computer to look for music, you got precisely a huge, sorted list of all your media. Even though, say, your videos were already in neatly organized folders since there's no good standard for tagging them a la ID3. Scrolling through the list was slow as it kept on trying to load new songs and stopping your cursor.

Not to mention the lower-grade interface itself, especially in comparison to the nicer and more functional Windows Media Center connection.

And having to connect to multiple computers is just annoying. Assuming the user only has one computer to connect to and relying on slow connection timeouts and jumps to completely different sections of the UI is a baffling design choice.

Datheron

@zleilndka: Hm, I think I took a wrong turn at reason boulevard after following design highway for nary a minute. Yea, my in-cheek humor sucks.

Datheron

@YourAnthony: Haha, that's a good one. For all the people's machines it ruined, a far bigger percent than this update. So, yeah, I was "over it" I just think it's hypocritical... Like, The panther calling the elephant black, in this case, more than pot and kettle. There was such a small percentage of people affected by these update problems, and Sony pulled the update in hours... How long did it take MS to pull their RRoD 360s? Oh, right, they just denied the problem was real for a year.

bobtheduck

It's well deserved trash talk.

There is zero reason to delist them. At most they should be shifted to a new "old" category or something.

In this digital age "shelf life" should be infinite.

Zunnoab

"No, it certainly is not. And Microsoft may well be reading these words and sobbing gently into their morning coffees."

Do you really think Microsoft is upset about their online service as compared to that of the PS3? Seriously?

Cupajo

true that deathtastic

ubernoobert

maybe I'm crazy but the 360
interface is tremendously better

novynova