@ShaggE: But the 20GB and 0GB models were such well-thought out endeavours, way would they tamper with that?

GogolGants

My 20GB are constantly filling up and yhe 120GB is really expensive, so I welcome a $100 60GB HDD! Can't wait!

henri1kk

60 gb hdd will buy, 120 is too expensive as is excessive, 60 sounds just right.

PAULINK

They probably should. 20 gigs isn't nearly enough.

ShaggE

It cost too much to buy.

zkotaku

Seems like Microsoft is scared of the PlayStation 3?

FreekyDeeky

I'm loving how they keep improving the bundles once my unit's warranty runs out its time to buy a new 360 =)

Murderdolls

@mariogalaxyman:
I think, in all honesty and as a multiple PS3 owner, that this is where Nintendo may have both the PS3 and 360 beat.

No multiple price points, no people waiting for the "BBD" on the systems...

If there is one thing that I hope to see in the "next-next-gen" it's that these stupid multiple units (especially the ones that split the hardware base i.e. no hard drive option) cease.

I understand the need for MS to upgrade their hardware to meet people's expectations of reliability, but damned if it isn't getting old. This will be, what, iterations 5 or 6 for the 360?

Evil J

I hope this is the first line of the Jasper chipset, with the 65nm GPU in addition to the CPU.

PepsiPerfect

I don't have any need for anything above 20gb at present, but hopefully this means Microsoft will be making better use of the HD maybe for MMORPGS... :)

Arcadewolf

As soon as I think it's OK to get a 360, they make more changes. Will they ever stop, or will I always be anticipating the next upgrade?

mariogalaxyman

@H3lloWorld: I think bundling the headset has been a good move, try PSN if you want to hear why (or not hear anything). If you have 4, then maybe you should give away the others to lonely Core owners.

Arcadewolf

I don't care what SKU they come out with as long as they come out with one that isn't going to RROD on me after a year. I just have no confidence in buying a 360 right now.

solidsnakeotaku

@PepsiPerfect: i hope so too.

that said, a reasonably-priced HDD for the 360, as a stand-alone item, would be very welcome.

TheIrishNinja

No need for this for this fellow. I bought the elite a year ago, and yes 120Gb is a little much. I have several tv shows, countless demos, and a plethora of songs and still have 50 gigs free! Anyhow, they should stop bundling that headset! I own 4 of them!

H3lloWorld

For God's sake, when will they wake up and make the 20GB the Core model and a 60GB or similar one the mid-range one? They can't possibly think they can compete with the Wii for the casual audience (especially when almost all their casual games are on XBLA, which effectively requires a hard drive). So stop crippling the vast majority of your users' experience.

cdammers

In other words, if you want a 360 Pro at $349.99 you should probably do it before they're all gone, 'cause once the 60GB SKU hit retails you can certainly assume the price will bounce back to $399.99.

Replica23

@Replica23: I don't think you've been paying attention to the 360 news ticker.

justhesh

@solidsnakeotaku:
I feel the same exact way, the possibility of RROD is the main reason I've yet to buy a 360. Maybe this new model with the new motherboard will help reduce the chances greatly.

kadaj24

I can't believe people are happy to pay $100 for only a 60gb HDD. MS really has people by the balls.

kadaj24

This would the forth 360, unless you want to count limited edition versions like the Halo edition. Different sizes with the HDD won't affect game play and does give people options. There is nothing wrong with including a headset. It's par for the course with the community of XBl, both good and bad.

gogators88

It's a starter pack....

You get all the arcade people together, send them into a shop and they get that. This is not for us, it's not for the millions of cod4/halo3/Orangebox/battlefield/UT/xbla gamers out there.

This is for the 'others'.

Beware the others.

edhe (xbl)

@cdammers: I think the phasing out of the 20gig HD for the Premium models signify this that maybe just maybe the Arcade model will get the 20gig HD instead of a memory card.

I know this is just a rumor for now. But most PR-MS related leaks have been in fact gone true. Price drop? Check! This? I highly think it'll happen. Waggle-controller? Heck it's almost a given. The rumors keep cropping back up. Where there's smoke...

@solidsnakeotaku: The Falcon chipped models are mostly safe to the RROD. As long as it's not a refurb or you're not playing it at 1080p.

Yes that added resolution is giving the chipset fits.

excaliburps

I'll probably buy a 60 gig when they come out, since I really don't want to spend 180 for a 120 gig one.

Salen

Considering that you can get a 500 GB 2.5" drive for 70 bucks at the moment, I still find the pricing for the standalone HDD insane. It is at least a far better deal than the 120 GB unit however.

Starsky

@cdammers: yup.

@Starsky: sure that's not 3.5"?

f0cus

@Starsky: The biggest 2.5" hard drive you can get is 320GB, and they are around $130 right now, with no case. And a 320GB external hard drive (with a case) is around $210.

80GB external hard drives cost around $70. So this 60GB isn't too far from the mark, given what it includes.

Rectangle

@f0cus Starsky's quoting 3.5" prices, but you can get up to 200GB 2.5" drives for under $100 on Newegg.

60GB drives are around $50, so you're paying a $50 premium for a plastic enclosure.

What's worse is that 120GB drives go for about $70, so you're paying a $110 premium for a PLASTIC ENCLOSURE.

There's gotta be a simple way to hack / crack the HDD enclosure case to put your own drive in it.

SpeedNut

I will buy a 360 the second they make it quieter and less death-prone.

punjabifury

I agree with all comments here stating that the XBOX360 should only be sold with a HDD and stop splitting the installed base.

But I'd also like to see the HDD module replaced with one that allows me to put in any HDD I damn want just like the PS3 does. I won't pay MS or anyone else $170 for 120GB, that's just insane.

AceSpeed

Still thinking that the arcade would be smothered in it's crib and the 20GB model gently placed in its stead, I find it hard to accept this rumor at face value (which isn't much as it IS a rumor).

okenny :)

If they are truly planning HD installs for games, this has to be true. Even my 60GB PS3 won't be able to fit more than 5 more installs.

Swift_

@Evil J:

Anytime you include a hard disk drive, you run the risk of the cost of the drive going down, and the availability drying up. Because of that, the product changes.

Microsoft ran into this with the original Xbox. The the 8GB HDDs were being phased out, which decreases supply and increases costs. Though the poor pricing and inability to get Nvidia to renegoiate the GPU pricing untimely meant it's demise, I'm sure the HDD likely factored in somewhere.

@FreekyDeeky:

No, I think rather it's about the component costs and availability. Sony will eventually do something similiar with the PS3.

@solidsnakeotaku:

I have a Gen 1 (January 2006) Xbox 360 that hasn't RROD. It's my only Xbox 360, and it's gets played a lot. I have over 700 hours into Oblivion, and over 200 hours into Mass Effect, just to name a few. It's sits on top a 160W stereo receiver that emits about 2,500 BTUs.

Yeah, there may be instances of RRODs, but it isn't as if you're playing Russian Roulette.

@Salen:

Actually the 120GB HDD is the best value, even taking the 60GB HDD into account.

120GB = $1.50 per GB
60GB = $1.67 per GB
20GB = $5.00 per GB

The 20GB HDD was greatly overpriced, which I suspect was to encourage purchasers to buy the Pro bundle.

adinnieken

I cannot see why Microsoft would bother with a 60GB drive. Make the 120GB standard and be done with it.

There's a price below which hard drives won't go. There's a finite cost involved in producing the chassis, aluminium platter coated with the appropriate magnetic material, the drive motor, the head assembly and the head positioning motor, which is pretty much the same for all drives. The difference in production cost tends to be small when making the bits more dense (getting more bits per platter) and not a lot more to add a head on the second side of the platter. It starts to get more expensive when you add a second platter (or more, but you can't fit more than two in a laptop hard drive, which the 360's is).

To make 60GB drives, Microsoft would have to source some 60GB bare drives, which now cost barely less than 120GB drives (probably the platters are 60GB per side!) The cost of sourcing and stocking them is likely to outweigh any profit they might make, IMO.

kruador

hmn... I dont know if I should get the xbox I want now or wait till all these changes take place. I wonder what this will mean for the price of the elite.

dArk_stAr

@okenny :): I don't see the 20 gig moving down. It seems to me that the price cut for the current 20g is to get rid of that stock. That's just my read on it.

lionkitten

Let's see:
$100 60GB HDD + 3 Months LIVE + Headset.

Taken at retail value:
3 Month LIVE card = $20
Headset = $20
So the 60GB drive is really about $60 with those pack-ins.

(Of course, if you're buying 13-month cards and don't need another headset, it's somewhat more)

Jazhuis

@SpeedNut: there is a way of putting your own HDD in the 360. It's not hard and works.

f0cus

They either need to drop the Arcade SKU, or stick the 20GB HDD on the thing, because this has gone on far enough. Memory cards blow chunks. Get with the program.

ViewtifulJason

I don't understand why the xbox hard drives have to be so fucking expensive. $100 can get me a 250 gb labtop harddrive (what is in the xbox drives case), or 500gb standard formfactor sata drive.

TheGreySpectre

For shame MS...

Just release an adapter and OS install disc for the "hardcore" and charge $150 or whatever for it so they can use hard drives of their own choice!

Really, 360 hard drives are ridiculous. 20GB shouldn't even be on the menu at this point.

fuchikoma

Oh Geez, here I go posting again:

Today's keyword is proprietary.

What does proprietary have to do with anything? Well, if something is proprietary then as a business you can charge more for it then if it was a common commodity. Take for instance the Apple line of products. Modern Apple machines are Intel based PC's with a Unix heritage. Now, Intel PC's are a dime a dozen and there are so many flavors of Unix as well as the free Linux distros.

Why do Apple PC's cost so much then? Well, brand name is a huge factor. You can build a fairly cheap Intel/Linux machine but you won't get the benefits of Apple's branding. Showing up to a coffe house with a hooptie machine will not get you same respect as having an Apple laptop.

A second important factor is ease of use. Now, to a few people here, dealing with Unix/Linux is like a walk in the park using a Segway. For the rest of the world filled with mere mortals, you might as well be running through gang infested neighborhoods with one bum leg. The average Joe wants ease of use and convenience and hates having to fiddle with anything too complicated. Now, this is average Joe and not you.

The last factor is that the machines are locked down and use proprietary methods to prevent competitors from making knock-offs. Hence, why there are no successful Apple clones. You can build a fairly cheap Intel/Linux machine but you won't get the benefits of Apple's proprietary systems, namely name-brand, ease of use, and support. If you attempt to build one yourself then you are on your own. The average Joe loves technical support provided by the manufacturer and shys away from self-support. Self-support is only an option when they have a friend or family member that becomes their de-factor technical support.

Now, all three things combined explains why Apple products are priced higher than cheaper alternatives or even comparable alternatives that use the same parts. All three combine and create a proprietary system that Apple dictates the costs (of course demand still plays a part=see branding). All three things together means Apple can charge a premium for things many of use beleive we can either build ourselves or do better.

Tepoz

Poop... they should offer original users discounts on the bigger harddrive.

I'd really LIKE to play some of those Xbox Originals one of these days, but not with how much space most of them take up on a 20gig...

@TheGreySpectre: And yeah. It's a fucking sham.

sir_carrot

@fuchikoma:
"Just release an adapter and OS install disc for the "hardcore" and charge $150 or whatever for it so they can use hard drives of their own choice!"

That would be too complicated for the average user. The snap-in design is brilliant as it's extremely simple to do. However, you pay a high price for that convenience (see previous posting). Think average Joe when designing products. Of course current pricing for either the 360 or PS3 is not aimed at the average Joe, but both their goals is to get to that market eventually.

I do agree about the size though. When the 360 launched, downloadable content took very little space and there were few publishers who were releasing demos. Not to mention the video service wasn't up yet. 20G was fine for a very long time. However, 20G is really small if you want to take advantage of all the services currently available for 360 owners. A larger drive is necessary for all new 360's being manufacturered if Microsoft wants to grow the downloadable content business.

Tepoz

@Tepoz:
I am thinking average Joe. That's what the PS2 network adapter did and it wasn't a problem.

But I already said it was for the "hardcore" and I'm mainly just trying to make it at least half as good as the PS3 where you just buy a SATA notebook drive and pop it in. I'm thinking you could have a snap-top case, but actually put your own drive in, then pop a disc into the 360 that formats it with whatever mojo they claim is so crucial to its operation.

As it is, I'd say both consoles are about as easy to install a drive in, but the 360 drive prices have gone from ridiculous to surreal. At this point it would be great if there were even a solution where you have to solder leads from the drive to the 360...

fuchikoma

@FreekyDeeky: hardly! its more or less preparation for the upcoming dashboard update at the end of the year for IPTV. How much you think you can store on a 20GB HDD?

shaunomacx

Good, a 60GB HDD is needed. 20GB HDDs were never enough for the stuff these consoles were pushing, PS3 or 360.

fenderfuel08

@TheGreySpectre: Yeah, the prices do suck. I guess the convience of being able to pick a 360 HDD up, stick it in a backback, and snap it into a friend's 360 without the worries of static damage and such could understandably make them more expensive to produce.

At the same time though, it's MS and the 360--all accessories are overpriced and expensive.

fenderfuel08