I think third party developers have been pretty irresponsible with the Wii. Reminds me of the old Atari days. Nintendo I think has a good strategy by setting the bar here. If they think they can do better, then go nuts. If not, then I really don't care what they think.

liquidnumb

Well,I think that since MotionPlus is a peripheral with new accelerator built-in technology, it does something that the original Wii remote cannot do or at least, cannot do as well so a simple system update would not work.Besides, I think Nintendo probably already considered the idea of somehow improving motion control by system updates anyway. Of course, Nintendo loves peripherals and so MotionPlus allows them to hit two birds with one stone by improving the accuracy of their controller and making a lot of money by selling it with Wii Sports 2.

MotionPlus is apparently only going to work with new games that have the technology programmed into them, so older games that did not use that technology will not be able to take advantage of the improved accuracy of motion control that MotionPlus allows for.

Killer7

@waza: No.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

My mistake.

I meant to say step out of the "mini game mentality and lazy waggle concept."

Killer7

can't a firmware update just make the wii support the motion plus on every game ... i'm far from being a developer, but can't it be done ??!

waza

The majority of third-party devs hardly ever attempt to offer high quality games on the Wii. In fact, so far, there hasn't been a single one released for the platform yet. Yeah, there's stuff like RE 4 and Okami, but those are great ports. If third-parties don't care about offering interesting and good quality games on the Wii, then why should I feel sorry for them losing out to Nintendo whose franchise titles and the quality of those games tend to be among the best games in every generation ?

Most third-party developers need to step up to the plate.Not only do they need to try harder to take advantage of the Wii's controls and graphical capabilities, but they also need to stop thinking outside of the "mini game" mentality and the lazy waggle concept. Also, publishers need to stop being cheap with their Wii budgets and care about the quality of the games that they are choosing to support.

Killer7

Surprise Surprise.

Bboboo

3rd party games have been garbage anyway. what are they mad that they can't make garbage in the 1:1 variety?

judunno

I feel sorry for the third-party devs but I also understand Nintendo's position.

Clearly, the unfortunate issue here is the lost opportunity for third-party games either coming out soon or are already deep into the development process, be unable to have access to MotionPlus technology and for those publishers and developers are unable to afford to delay their games up to a year in attempt to include MotionPlus into their games for the sake of improving them.

Killer7

Almost everyone knows that fragmenting the playerbase (i.e. The Langis Effect) is bad.

Billkwando

@Krondonian: My point stilll stands. There are millions of Wiimote owning consumers out there that will never buy this thing, thus splitting the userbase and potential sales base for 3rd parties.

Like how would this work out in competitive FPS games? People with their original Wiimotes would most likely get slaughtered by those that bought the attachment.

How would all those casual players that did not buy Wii Resort compete with those that did buy it? It can only lead to fractionating the market for both 3rd parties and consumers.

mlubczyk

*but I did that*

Billkwando

@Wildhomie: Yes, a mail-in deal would help, like with Wiimote jacket. God knows Nintendo can afford it, with all their freshly printed moneyz.

What's sad is I would want to buy this thing on day one, just on faith and excitement about the possibilties......buy I did that with the Wii too, and I see how that turned out.

*hugs NMH & RE4*

Billkwando

Nintendo has always screwed over third parties, so this is nothing new. They've always been assholes, and now that they're in first, they've realized that they can stop using toilet paper, and because the casuals don't have noses, they won't smell the shit until it overflows and drowns them.

Placentasaurus

@Spann: You mean the remote that doesn't exist? Are you joking, or just doing a bad job of trolling?

wild homes desires a pudding!

@Ryuk: I'm not sure they would do anything solely for face value. I'm sure they believe they're doing the right thing. I just really can't imagine any way this is going to work for them, save for two possibilities.

One, that Nintendo subsidise the entire project and make the Wii Motion Plus freely available to everyone-- maybe like a mail-in redemption thing?-- so everyone can have it, and developers can count on the accessory and build the functionality in.

Two, that Nintendo issue a directive to all developers that they code in dual functionalities for both control schemes, with and without the Motion Plus accessory. This is the more likely option, but developers (I imagine) will not bother to code the functionality in until the accessory takes off, and the accessory's initial success will be based almost entirely on Nintendo's first-party Wii Motion implementations, as Nintendo will be the only developer with a vested interest in promoting the accessory.

wild homes desires a pudding!

It'll be the Gamecube era all over again. Nintendo sells their games well-->Third parties don't--> Third parties stop releasing their games on Nintendo's console and move to others.

ghostadv

Yeah, Nintendo, you should have announced this earlier so that XBOX 360 remote could copy this idea too.

Spann

Figures.

Billkwando

Of course they were kept in the dark. Look at previous generations where other companies borrowed Nintendo's ideas even before Nintendo could implement them.

3rd party developers need to stop crying. They have had the same tools Nintendo has had for years and have come up with shit. The Wii is a great system without Motion Plus. However, making games for the Wii requires imagination and ingenuity that, quite frankly, third parties either don't have or flatly refuse to use.

All I hear is how everyone wants 1:1 sword battles and ... 1:1 light saber battles.

Well here it is! Nintendo bought you your toy. Are you now going to cry in the corner, because you could have had it a little sooner? Jesus fucking Christ.

Stay in your corner and cry. Cry even harder when Nintendo gives up waiting on you and makes the game themselves.

Minister of Fun

Everything that Nintendo does everyone wants to call it a "dick" move - it's called secrecy. They did not want the MotionPlus to leak out, which they could not have guaranteed complete secrecy if they let one of these 3rd party devs know of it.

@norinrad21: @Silent Predator: @sereal: You three gentlemen are good human beings - thanks for being rational about it all.

It's good that Nintendo actually admits one of it's flaws, unlike the 360 and the PS3...yes, I'm a fanboy, but not a rabid one.

ヨシダさん 25

Wow... this wii motion plus will not pick up... i'll put 5 bucks down on that... Sure they're going to pack it with wii resort... but dont you need at least 2 to party?...

btw, this secrecy thing is typical of nintendo. dissapointed to say the least.

Friction

@Wolfers:

Completely expected however.

Don't worry once Nintendo has a huge seller using the feature other developers can apply for their first evaluation models... or even better just buy retail and wait for the SDK update. Goody. You thought the iphone development process was horrible. :)

Mongoosekun

alright so its 3rd parties crying again............nothing new here.

norinrad21

Developers taken by surprise? Sounds an awful lot like how Sixaxis motion controls caught developers by surprise. There's irony in there somewhere, I swear.

Altersparck

@Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc: Aha! Yes... I wasn't sure. I thought you were saying they used another accelerometer to make it more accurate. Silly me. Realized my mistake after I had posted my smart-a unquestion question. Sorry.

Anyway, I'm looking for the miyamoto quote that says they're releasing motionplus to devs with a big package of assets for them to use, so I shouldn't think it would be too hard for them to add to their games. For the tech savvy: If they delayed the wii version of force unleashed and had this big bag of magical assets to use with motionplus, how long would it take for the devs to add a second controlmode with 1-1 moves? or would it ba a "back to the drawing board" type of deal?

JokesJokes

this will not end well. the force unleashed and clone wars are already feeling the blow of this well kept secret

bigman88zz

@Vanguarde: When did they actually say that?

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

Nintendo has really never cared about third party companies and has gone on record many times saying they would not mind just making the console and being the only one to make games for it.

As long as Nintendo is making profit from the Wii itself, it's own games, and gimmick attachments like the WiiMotion Plus they will continue care less about third party games and will continue it's public stance of 'oh yea, we love third parties!'

Seems to me their true colors has shown again with this WiiMotion Plus fiasco.

Vanguarde

@mlubczyk: Those numbers are just guesstimates though. It's vgchartz.

Krondonian

@JokesJokes: MotionPlus? Yes, it's an MEMS gyroscope.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

Hmmm, déjà-vu! I remember the RAM Expansion Pack for the N64, which basically killed the console for me. It was like the console wasn't powerful enough anymore, making this "add-on" necessary to play newer games.

This new MotionPlus tells their original controller design is flawed. And from my experience in the videogame dev industry, most companies don't care for new challenges, they only care about the money. If they see a rise in dev cost and a drop in customers/profits, they'll drop support.

Yet.... It might just work. If people are stupid enough to buy the same plastic guitar and drum every time a "new" music game is released, they'll buy into this stuff.

GrandAeon

@wild homes desires a pudding!: Watching this peripheral fail (which, come on, there's a good chance it won't be that popular) is just one way of Nintendo being able to show everyone "See, we catered to the hardcore crowd, and it didn't turn out well. Back to shovelware!"

Ryuk

@Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc: U'm I thought they said it ran using a gyroscope.

JokesJokes

Force Unleashed would have gone great with this.

chiefeagle02

I am now convinced that the WiiMotion Plus adoption Rate will be low.

Wii Sales: 29.54 million

[www.vgchartz.com]

WiiFit Sales: 5.80 million

[vgchartz.com]

Link's Crossbow Training Sales: 2.06 million

[vgchartz.com]

Umbrella Chronicles Sales: 1.23 million

[vgchartz.com]

Mario Kart Wii Sales: 6.43 million

[vgchartz.com]

If these numbers are to be believed, 3rd party developers would be cutting their potential sales by at least 3/4th by trying to make the WiiMotion Plus control scheme standard.

Judging by these figures, only 1 in 4 Wiimotes will ever,, ever have the WiiMotion Plus accessory attached. Even if it was to be standard in future Wiimotes, there will still be at least 60 million Wiimotes without it if not more:

29.54 Million Wiis x 2 Wiimotes (one packaged, one bought) = ~ <= 60 million.

mlubczyk

@Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc: really? shit. you know, i didnt actually watch the presser, only read about it, but if that's how it works, i think i follow.
gonna have to go watch that video now.

TheIrishNinja

That just seems like such a bad idea, with those kinds of moves no wonder 3rd party support is what it is on the wii.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

Let me preface this by saying I own a Wii and I'm happy with it. That said I don't get why people are getting upset about this and I really don't understand the developers feeling 'annoyed' and 'betrayed'. Oh what, Ubisoft is pissed because they can't add Motion Plus to the next Petz game? Big fucking deal.

Silent Predator

@TheIrishNinja: During the fencing demo for Wii Sports Resort, they had to point the remote at the middle of the screen and press a button at the start of the fight. (Unless that was just to everyone was ready at the start, but then why the middle?)
It doesn't improve the accuracy of the existing signal, it gives another signal that's more reliable for orientation, and can detect left-right rotation, but that doesn't tell you about shaking without rotation.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

If it's true, kind of a dick move Nintendo.

insaneo

Wow, Nintendo is really becoming something I do not want to associate with as a consumer and gamer.

fenderfuel08

@Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc: crap, you're right. wait, when did you swordfight? No More Heroes?

i think i get why its more accurate, im asking what the devs could do to work with that. If im understanding it right, and this add-on improves accuracy, shouldnt it just be tagged on and do that, or does the game need to be worked with its design in mind to have any affect?

TheIrishNinja

Really sucks because i, (and probably many other people) now have no interest what so ever in any game that comes out before the motion plus knowing that it will be a waggle-fest in comparison to something that actually runs in 1:1.

get2theDeLorean

@TheIrishNinja: Fatal Frame 4 is done. It comes out in Japan in a week and change. With the accelerometer you get the acceleration in each of the three cardinal axes. The MotionPlus would give a separate set of numbers for rotation around each axis, relative to some start orientation. (Notice how you had to calibrate against the middle of the screen at the start of each swordfight?)

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

@journies_end: It's not that big of a deal. Clearly Nintendo wants to be the first to implement this feature, they invested the time into it and they want to set the bar. It probably won't be all that hard to implement it into games that haven't reached production line.

sereal

Just imagine what the Wii version of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed could have been had LucasArts known about 1:1 controls...

I'm guessing Nintendo is looking forward to all serious 3rd-party developers to create glorified sequels, now with the technology, so they benefit from whatever increased income it generates?

That's a pretty dishonest strategy.

Arttemis

Wow Nintendo. Way to drop the ball. Also, way to kill off the third-party devs and way to make me never, ever spend $250 on your crappy Wii console.

Try again next generation, and don't screw it up.

FoxyGaz

wiimote is really 2 controllers in 1:

accelerometer-mote is for bad minigames with lots of waggle

IR pointer-mote can produce really good games, but, isnt this practically a 2d (x,y) device wich means it can be emulated with a mouse???

motionplus is the way we ALL imagined the wii was suposed to be. accelerometers SUCK, and big time

computor

You know, I had always felt sorry (in previous generations) for Nintendo, and how third parties hand a stinted and biased view about developing on a Nintendo console. Not anymore, not anymore. This was a dick move of Nintendo to keep the Motion Plus a secret from even developers until E3. I finally thought Nintendo was doing something, SOMETHING right this generation... not anymore, not anymore.

journies_end

Torgen:

Games can take 2-3 years to develop. The last nine months are often spent adding all the little details and fixing bugs.

Changing the control scheme completely and thus affecting the entire game balance is not something a developer really wants to have to do with nine months to go.

But I don't think anyone really expected a whole mess of games to appear suddenly with support the moment the controller addon was released, so it's more like a year's notice which is a bit more reasonable.

But still, something like this really needs to be thought about when the game design is being fleshed out initially to take the fullest advantage of it. Adding something like this to a game which is half done is going to feel tacked-on.

Elliuotatar

that's a shame, it seems like something they could really put to use. i guess that's the by-product of nintendo's secrecy.

does this not mean it cant improve games in development, though? i mean, for fatal frame 4, for example, that'd be pretty cool.
to be honest, what do the devs need to do with it? i was sorta hoping you could just tack it on and get that 1:1 they spoke of in older games too.

TheIrishNinja

To be honest, I'm not at all concerned. I think the Motion Plus simply isn't a good business decision. I think this is going to be the Expansion Pack all over again-- the Wii's audience is too casual for us to think a peripheral that won't be universally employed and will (at least initially) not be built in to the Wiimote is going to be any kind of raging success. If Nintendo had a more hardcore install base this generation they might have a better chance to force this kind if accessory on us. But I don't expect they really have any plan on how to introduce this kind of product into the market-- and that's why third-party developers haven't heard anything.

Because Nintendo don't yet know what on Earth to do with this thing.

wild homes desires a pudding!

@Krondonian: Well there's that LiveMove thing where you can give sample actions and it will recognize them, and I think they announced a version that would support MotionPlus.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

Maybe the add-on doesn't make it much harder to develop for? I'm just hoping here.

donquijote23

I'm assuming that it wouldn't be too hard to make the controls 1:1 from waggle similarities.

Of course, I have no idea. But it doesn't seem like too complicated a process. What if Nintendo already programmed a bunch of default mappings, such as first person gun, sword fighting game, et cetera? Is that even possible?

Krondonian

Well that's what you get for your loyalty. You only have yourselves to blame developers :( Come home to 360 :)

okenny :)

"Developers are of course welcome to develop their titles taking advantage of our new Wii MotionPlus add-on. It will be available at retail for their convenience shortly in a bundle with our new Wii Sports Resort!

Any further questions can be directed to my secretary. I will be preoccupied dry humping the pile of cash on my bed. I apologize if it feels like a betrayal, but I got tired of only screwing you."

Heliophage

I've given up on the Wii at this point; waste of $250, even with Zelda and Smash Bros.

My360broked

There's still 9 months to go. That's plenty of time to add support into an in-development title.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

That's very disappointing.

Wolfers

@pulyx:

Agreed

TF2Soldier914

*now with 1:1-ish controls.

bobeotm

Well, expect another wave a minigame compilations, since they are the quickest thing the crap out to capitalize on the peripheral. Kinda like when the Wii launched and no one knew it would sell well, so devs rushed to put something quick on the system.

More carnival games, not with 1:1-ish controls, yay?

bobeotm

Whoops!

Doesn't this all but seal away any doubts that Nintendo has little love for anyone else wanting to publish on their system? 1:1 motion control from 3rd party software developers coming Q4 '09?

art_zombie

Baahh Nintendo please do something right. And by "right" I mean something I can be happy about.

sarcasmOD

this means nintendo shot themselves in the foot with the devs who want to deliver to the hardcore gamers

stryker1800

That's a stupid move by nintendo.
Douchebagery.

pulyx

I don't feel any sympathy for 3rd parties as the vast majority of wii games we have been getting from them, even 2 years later, are exceedingly low quality and 1:1 control would not make any difference whatsoever.

If the 3rd parties were actually working on good high quality games where 1:1 would make a big difference to gameplay, they wouldn't give a second thought to delaying it and adapting the game to it.

kiseki

The issue here is not so much secrecy as it is exclusivity. Nintendo always does this with their hardware, delaying development kits for third parties and so on. The main reason is, this way they can insure their first party titles have no real initial competition in using the shiny new features to their full potential.

If you look at the top games on every Nintendo system, but especially the Wii, they're always the big first party titles. The MotionPlus is just part of keeping that trend in motion. Er, pun not really intended I think...

gaijira

prepare to be price gauged by Nintendo.

HEY! Our Wii console is cheap!!! but our accessories and add-ons are not!!

Gutter_Trash

They been doing stuff for the wiimote for almost 2 years and still most of it is crap. I would be amazed if they came up with a good game for the controller without the plus thing before it launches next year...

VakeroRokero

nice one nintendo

bigsamboni

@computor:
Actually, the Wii Remote can also sense how "close" it is to the screen with the pointer. I guess it judges how far apart the IR LEDs are from each side, and uses that to calculate distace (though, it isn't a set figure, as it always seems to reset everytime it's used).

Though, I can't think of many applications of this. The Photo Channel did to change the size of the brushes, and Super Swing Golf used it to zoom in/out of the map.

BPMο

The Wiimote is a work of genius. The issue is, its use is limited. A large percentage of the games on the Wii would lose nothing being played on a traditional controller.

For my mind, the only games i've played on the Wii that actually benefitted from the Wiimote are Wii Sports, and Mario & Sonic Olympics.

Mr_Ed

Nintendo failing to support 3rd party developers = Nintendo will continue to not get any of the real games.

Dalren

@mlubczyk: As it stands, the control systems for FPS games are already fairly tight, as far as good games go on the Wii. A simple add-on isn't going to magically make your aim any more steady, and wouldn't affect anything as far as a good competitive FPS game. Latency would probably be a bigger factor than the attachment would. In other words, it'd still be more up to the game design and the accuracy of the player, than some add-on.

@Mr_Ed Honestly, I don't think it's use is limited to the point it negatively affects the overall gaming package, I just don't think there's any real push to use the remote in unique or effective ways. Sure, some game types are going to suffer without the additional buttons, or will feel more sound using a more standard layout, but what you haven't seen is any real push to create a unique experience that might use a mixture of motion, pointing and button-work. Even Nintendo themselves have been mostly trying to tailor their core gaming portfolio to the more casual motion-friendly controls. It could work for a lot of games, it won't work for several others. I just don't think we've seen much that's really been designed to use the control, moreso take advantage of the 'movements make things seem easier!' phase everyone seems to be going through.

I mean, c'mon. Why is there no awesome, game of the century style fishing title yet? You couldn't find a better console to put one on!

@A lot of other people. Hey, glad you could show up and spout off on another Wii thread like a bunch of assholes. Thanks for bringing Kotaku down to the average 'Stoopid Internet' status quo.

Because, as well all know, 3rd Party support has been so strong for the Wii, bringing us so many awesome hit AAA titles, that not telling them about a development that they're all dying... no, no, murdering masses of puppies and newborns for the right to push the Wii even further than they already have... for Nintendo to do something like this? I bet they're heartbroken, suicidal even.

Ampillion = That Man.

1:1 is all well and fine, but there's not a game to my mind on the Wii that would benefit any from having it, what with most games being bogged down with other, larger, problems than mere motion detection.
My problem has always been that the Wii seems to be putting accessories first, content second, selling pieces of plastic to house the remote and 'enhance' the experience for example.
Unless Nintendo is willing to make a game similar to Bushido Blade, I'm just throwing that idea out there, I won't be picking up the add-on - of course, assuming it's not compatible with Force Unleashed. And, if they do decide to release more realistic sword-play games, how long will it be before they start getting angry-parents complaining about the 'realism' of violence their beloved family-friendly console is promoting? It's a double-edged sword, quite literally.
I bought a Wii a few days ago, to play with friends, and thus far I can't actually think of a game I've played - and enjoyed - that needs 1:1. I like to think of myself as a core gamer, and this idea seems to solely appeal to the core gamer who wants to justify their past year of eagerly defending their purchase, an ideal that they shouldn't have to in the first place with the plethora of perfectly fine games on the system already.
The ground work is there, Monster Hunter and Star Wars being the primary candidates, and I'm sure Nintendo can implement it, I hope they do.

Fallible

Hey look on the brightside soon nintendo will release a stripper pole add-on for the wii-board and cammie will do the demo.

chaseus

The original wiimote is bad. My uncle bought a Wii when it was all "hot" and new and I play with it, WTF was my first reaction. It was bundle with Wii Sports, I mean...it gotta to be suck and the motion detection is not precise. Everybody seems to be all over for it, but hardcore gamers know...what is wrong with it. Looks like Nintendo owning this stupid screw up and now trying to make up for it with Wii Motion Plus. Now you all have to buy, as your Wiimote is gimp when it was introduce. If developer doesn't aware about this new add-on...good luck, your hardcore games with better precise Wiimote will take another 1~2 years to realise. This gen is about waiting anyways....

ahmeng

Considering the accessory won't be available till 2009, I rather doubt that developers not knowing till this point changes anything. After all, MotionPlus doesn't actually change the Wii-Motes core functionality, therefore drastic changes to game play aren't going to be necessary to take advantage of Motionplus.

In other words, people are being all melodramatic again.

WolvenOne

Hail Nintendo?

Zorba

@ahmeng:And your one of the clueless masses.

Foxstar Sixtail

Like good quality third party games need MotionPlus? Bullshit.
Scapegoat Nintendo, the drama continues...

Bluetribal

@mispeld: "Way to go, Nintendo?" - is that it? So you're telling me a company needs to sacrifice it's initial needs for the needs of 3rd parties? As I recall, the company needs to worry about itself before it can start worrying about the third parties, who, let's be frank, have not exactly brought their A-game to this generation for the Wii. Don't blame Nintendo, I wouldn't want to trust the third party companies either.

ヨシダさん 25

So many people in this thread don't have a clue. So very many.

Foxstar Sixtail

I can second this story. I'm a gamer in Salt Lake City, and last weekend we had an event called GEEX, for Gaming and Electronics Expo. More of a local thing, obviously, but representatives from several third-party development studios attended as guest speakers.

I was present for one panel discussion held by members of Sensory Sweep Studios, one of the largest independent developers in the nation. They've developed several titles for the Wii. Near the end of the discussion, they opened it up for questions from the audience.

I got my hands on the mic and asked them a question relating to how the Motion Plus extension would affect the development of their future Wii projects. They all stared at me with blank faces. One of their developers/programmers looked at me and said, "A new hardware extension for the Wii? Is that what you're asking? I've never heard of anything like that."

None of them had any idea what the MotionPlus was. Way to go, Nintendo.

mispeld

Ah Nintendo once again ensuring that Nintendo systems are for Nintendo games, and Nintendo games only.

Gestahl

Nintendo's E3 presentation could have been exponetionally helped if they had informed third party developers of Motionplus's existence. Imagine if Regis went up on stage and showed off this great new device and announced promising new titles that would support it in the upcoming months. Imagine how much that could have helped the sales of the force unleashed or create more interest in the product itself. But sadly no. They decided to show off the new Motionplus controls with Wii Dildo Fight. Nuff' said.

"Look it the Doggy....Loooooook it the DOOOOGY!!"

:(

NeVeRMoRe666

Obviously Nintendo was afraid that MS would copy the wiimote concept. Obviously so sure about that and so worried that they blew up their own press conference by announcing the wii motion plus before the MS presser instead of during their own one. Probably also so worried about MS copying the idea that they´ve not informed any third party about the existence of the addon.
While it is unfortunate that third parties weren´t informed and games closer to release will not support the addon even if the game concept would heavily benefit from that well,that´s how it went now and in some extend its understandable.
The actual problem is really what some here mentioned, the wii motion plus will only be owned by a fraction of the wii owners. For developers its a tough call whether to make games that use the motion plus to its full extent (which would in many cases probably mean the game then is not propperly controllable anymore for the majority of wii owners).
Nintendo would really do best in either bundling two Motion Plus with every Wii sold and selling new wiimotes with motion plus bundled or build in and bringing out way more games which have it bundled, too.

tomsamson

@mispeld: By 'several games for the Wii', you of course mean Alvin and the Chipmunks, and... Alvin and the Chipmunks.

By looking over their list of wonderful, cutting edge, innovative titles, there's probably a reason these guys were left out of the loop...

Ampillion = That Man.

Also since i just read the comparison with Sony not letting third parties know beforehand about the sixaxis features i think its way worse than that in Nintendo´s case. First because the Wii was already out way longer and had a way higher adoption rate when the new controller addon was announced, so there´s a way bigger amount of people now who either can´t play some games or have to get the new controller.
Next up the motion controls are the main selling point of the Wii, its not just an additional feature like with the bluray playing hightech and online features pumped up PS3.
If one develops for the Wii and doesn´t just do ports or remakes or shovelware but really wants to play to the strengths of the system then its essential to propperly use the controller´s features. So yeah, when those change drastically that has quite some impact.
Another issue is that its really a radical difference between a wiimote with motion plus and one without it, one has way more propper data one can use for control, so what to do, use it and be able to have more precise controls or even different kinds of games entirely impossible with the old controller or not use em and have way more people be able to actually play your game at all thanks to owning the required controller?

tomsamson

I understand their need to keep Wii Motion plus secret, but it is wrong to do so from third party producers who are still today struggling to properly use the Wii's unique controls. I do not agree with Nintendo on this one, but what do I know? Im just the little consumer, who didn't get F-Zero Wii for E3...

Shiryu

@mlubczyk:
By your figures 1/6 of Wii owners bought Wii Fit.

If that is true then Motion Plus is going to walk out of the door as it is far less "niche" than Wii fit.

It would be good if sales were tracked, I reckon there's a good chance it could overtake total PS3 sales!

paulmcg

@NeVeRMoRe666: haha, nicely put :)
Sure, would have been way better if they had informed third parties and had more and propper games to announce together with the addon. Another big problem is that the thing won´t come out now for a good while. While that is on one side good because now third parties actually have some time till the release of the thing to work on games for it its bad on the other side for many games coming out in the meantime, i´m sure for several of those people will wonder how much better those could have been to control with the addon, just like the discussions about force unleashed already show.

tomsamson

This is quite funny since 3rd party devs made fuck all games beforehand for the wii. What, this addon would of magically sparked a wave of decent games, if devs knew about it?

No, no i think not.

Lokku

LOL, they asked _several_ developers about this and they were pissed... can we find out who they were?
I'm guessing Retro Studios and FRONTIER might have know about this seeing as they have proved they can make decent games. If you can't get to grips with data from a motion sensor and make a good game, you are not going to be able to use the Gyro data properly so quit whining.

_Hayko

@hexode: Why would you doubt this? Nintendo kept the online SDK from devs for months after the Wii's release. Not that it was worth the wait.

catapult37

I bet the Red Steel 2 devs are like... "FUCK! Now we have to redo the entire fucking sword system. If only our game was officially announced, we'd be able to say we're too close to finished, just as an excuse. But now we just have more work to do. Thanks for stabbing us in the back, Nintendo!"

BtownDesignGuy

Sincerely, I really doubt on the veracity of this news. If it was announced to developers they were probably required to sign a non-disclosure agreement, and only a select few in each third-party dev team would be aware of it, and it will probably not be the ones present at E3 ( which are mostly PR people ). The other "real" developpers that were present were presenting their games, on which they were probably working for 1+ years ( so in no way they could have used the wii motion plus... ).

My guess is that the people who were aware of the development were actually hard at work in their respective dev studios to work with the wii-motion plus...

Working in the industry, I saw the same thing with the Wii-remote, only a select few were made aware of its existence before the annoucement of Nintendo... so its all normal business in my view...

hexode

@mlubczyk: Those numbers are why it probably doesn't much matter that developers weren't told about this. (I still think that's a bit crazy though - obviously, if they wanted it to keep it secret, there was absolutely no alternative, but could they at least have told LucasArts?)

However I think the real potential value of the addon is if it's feasible to make games which use it, but don't require it. (Like all the games coming out now which support the Balance Board.) In that case you'd have a nice encouragement that might get extra users to buy your game - you can certainly bet that the people who write reviews will have 'em, for instance.

By the way I'd be surprised if LucasArts (the bosses at least) would be even remotely disappointed that they haven't been able to get MotionPlus into their new lightsaber game... because that means they have to release another version, at full price, a year later... and we all know Lucas love to do that.

Real question: will this be used in Zelda?

quen

Stop picking on nintendo,they wanted your money,your'll gave them money.achievement unlocked.

chaseus

Is the casual crowd even ready for mandatory add-on peripherals? A good way to determine this would be to figure out how many Wiimotes have been sold compared to Nunchuks. And that's like another controller. I don't mean to underestimate the casual crowd, but will MotionPlus become a must-buy, just for one game?

The Wii is quickly becoming something completely alien to the "hobbyist" crowd. It has popular, quality games that have little appeal for people who like to sit down for a couple hours each night and play video games. They're making a quality product, and kudos to them for that, but it's just not one that appeals to me anymore.

thefais

Yup, we had no idea this was coming out and we have 4 Wii games in production...

magictroll

You look at stuff in 3rd party games like Zack & Wiki & NMH, and it's pretty obvious they designed the game to only work with 1:1 motion control (is this what we're calling it now?) anyway. Using the normal Wii Remote for it can be a pile of pants anyway.

God damn that bellringing in Zack & Wiki!

Chadders

One of the widest dev complaints is already how hard it is to compete with Nintendo because "only first party titles sell on the Wii." Looks like they have their developers' backs as well as they have ours.

Still - no matter how useful it looks, like any other add-on, I think they're going to drop it shortly after putting out a few sample games anyway. It would be a tremendous shift of precedent if they didn't. Ultimately it drives up the system cost and they can always assume more people will NOT have it, so the primary focus will be on bare Wiimotes. The nunchuk is kind of a special case because it's a launch item, and even if they sell it separately it's still half of a normal controller.

I've given it a lot of thought, and while this sounds cheesy I think it describes the situation well: It's entirely possible E3 was just a bad time for them, that at TGS they'll have a good hardcore showing in the fall, etc. But I think most old Nintendo fans from a few generations or more ago kind of keep a place in their hearts for Nintendo. In the 8-bit days I used to eat, sleep, and breathe the stuff. But in a relatively short time, they've completely burned that place out. When they were talking about getting out of gaming if whatever comes after the GameCube fails I was like "no! First Sega, now Nintendo? Don't die, guys!" Now... whatever happens to them is simply karma. I can't imagine them losing all the money they've made lately, but quite simply they're not the Nintendo I once knew, and they're not about people like me anymore, so if I kept holding out and waiting for them to impress it would be a one-sided relationship.

I still have a Wii and I won't ignore good games that come to it, but now my first party expectations have hit rock bottom. I really expect nothing from them.

Finally I'd like to add that when they were boasting the Wiimote's "absolute positioning" (which we now know is just the sensor bar) they were selling it as if it was already as good as they're saying the Motionplus is now. A gyro will not make it 1:1 - it will make it more accurate and longer between recalibrations, but watch how they still always point the Wiimote at the screen and press a button to start a minigame.

fuchikoma

The only thing coming out before Wii Sports that would truly benefit would be Lightsaber Duels. That is if it weren't the waggle equivalent of a button masher. The Conduit is already coming Q1 09 so the controls on the already supposedly amazing controls on that are bound to synchronize with MoPlus.

What you want from EAD is to fight Ganon with 1:1 Master Sword controls, and Iwata has already pointed out that takes times. Perhaps it is worth considering in the context of his statement that never before has Nintendo launch had so much of its awesomeness crammed within the first year and a half, thus making it predictable their followups would all be early in dev at the same time?

But what you want from LA is the epic Star Wars adventure you've always dreamed of. The game that accomplished this best was Jedi Outcast/Academy (preference on Academy) by making you feel totally in control when all you really had was a button for swing. If direction of movement can give you as much control as it does in JK, a MoPlus version could be ungodly.

And it will be. I started messing with GlovePIE to learn how to write pass through scripts to map controls to the WiiMote, and I and my talented dev friend have pledged that if they don't get around to making the Wii lightsaber game that a tech like MoPlus deserves, we will write the code necessary for 1:1 saber control into the JK engine as a mod. It may require a shit ton of peripherals (balance board to round things out) but I will not rest until SOMEONE takes the awesome that the modern JK has been for me since 2002, and updates it for the post MoPlus world.

Since Nintendo fans are being particularly depressing despite the honest truths spouted by Iwata and the general predictability of not being super wowed at once these days (the last time was when TP was unveiled), I think you guys need to revive your childhood magic. Here's a scenario for you:
Bioware licenses the Wiimote for use with a proprietary USB PC dongle. Bioware's next gen KOTOR MMO features real time 1:1 saber combat on a massive scale. Every fanboy's head explodes and Lucas has to make 7-9 to build the base back.

Hey, it could happen.....

mCWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD

Bobby McPresscott

I love the Nintendo fanboys trying to rationalize this decision. Their argument that 3rd party develops produce shovelware, so Nintendo can keep secrets, is asinine. It is not good business sense for Nintendo to give the shaft to 3rd party developers, whether they produce AAA quality titles or not. Just like how it's the hardware equivalent of the Gamecube, I can see the Wii matching the cube in terms of 3rd party presence. Sure it's made a financial success (for Nintendo), but ultimately at the cost of quality. Nintendo will continue to produce quality titles, sure, but aside from a few releases here and there, no one else will.

Also, for everyone thinking that this is a quick fix to titles using the Wiimote:

It's probably not. They've developed systems knowing the inaccuracies of the Wiimote (such as predefined gestures). Switching to 1:1 movement is a HUGE step, especially with such little time left. I'd imagine it'd have to be incorporated with the initial game design.

c0rnpwn

Not at all unexpected.

I'm halfway convinced that a large part of Nintendo doesn't know what Nintendo's doing.

SatansBestBuddy

something is very, very wrong inside the big N. They are acting like pricks again and trying to reproduce their N64 fiasco in the next generation.

@wild homes works for the IRS, journalises games!: Given the success of Wii Sports (sold separately in Japan) and WiiPlay, I think the WM+ strategy will probably be a success. Wii owners love dressing their pad in funny dresses.

@NeVeRMoRe666: You're so right... Force Unleashed and The Conduit shown with WM+, instead of that Resort crap, would have been great. Even a Hanna Montana game would be better... No, wait, I went too far.

EloraHRanma

Are we all forgetting that Nintendo isn't the only ones who hidden such news regarding their hardware from developers this gen? Remember E3 2006 where Sony came out of nowhere and announced their controller would have motion based controls as well, which threw off every 3rd party including Kojima/Konami? Things worked out for them, why can't they work out for Nintendo?

Innervate

@c0rnpwn: While it's certainly not a good reason to keep secrets, and obviously it'd help everyone designing games for the Wii to know that there are new developments on the horizon, it's also rather foolish to think there's some sort of outrage amongst 3rd party developers about being left in the dark over something when it's obvious that they (as a majority) look at the Wii's share as a secondary market, or simply a well of never-ending monies that they can just dip any ol' shitty bucket into and reward themselves for their lack of effort.

So, certainly, would it have been great for them to have let everyone in on it? Sure. Will it matter if the newer remotes coming out of Nintendo don't include this as a default? Probably not. Are there acceptable reasons for them to hold this close to their chest? Yes. Is one because 3rd parties are horribly under preforming on what they put on their system? No.

Ampillion = That Man.

This accessory is a bad idea for 3rd party devs. If you require it for your game, you're cutting your potential market in half.

Lukems

@mlubczyk:

I assume you can buy it separately. I mean are people really suggesting that people will have to buy 4 copies?

More importantly, those competitive FPS', who exactly would be playing that wouldn't make the investment?

houser

@FoxyGaz:

Yes because they being secretive on the Motion Plus is the reason you are not getting a Wii. Let's not live in fantasy land here. There are valid reasons not to get a Wii, but hurting the feelings of 3rd parties was of course the reason to halt one sale.

houser

sorry, metroid for the wii.

ranchhand

carnival games outsold metroid prime by a 2-1 margin.

ranchhand

Honestly, I think the article title itself is trying to subliminally fish for negative feedback. If there's one thing we know, is that giving developers any information about upcoming console / product is like asking for it to be leaked. It's not like Nintendo is not supporting third party with the MotionPlus, yet a simple twist of words would make Nintendo the bad guy. From developer's standpoint, having any information as early as possible would help them, but just like developers don't like to showcase games before they are done, hardware guys don't like to show their stuff until they are able to show what their product does. I think it'll be more detrimental for developers if Nintendo showed them the product early, develop for it, only to find out specs have changed.

P.S. I'm not a Nintendo fanboy.

ojisan

@Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc: Well, it wouldn't make it one to one, but couldn't it make the input more accurate? You know the up/down versus left/right and stab and everything?

JokesJokes

@BtownDesignGuy: Umm...right. Because ubisoft works so hard to bring quality titles to wii. I have and enjoy the original redsteel, but I wouldn't say there was a whole lot of effort put into it.
@ranchhand: And which was advertised more? That's one thing that I think nintendo has been really sorry on. Advertising. If they started a commercial promo now they could probably double that number in a couple of weeks (not the commercial with the smart car, that works fine for some games, but metroid? Not so much.)
@EloraHRanma: I'm interested to know (geuinely, not sarcastically) how you think the conduit would benefit from motionplus? As far as I'm aware, it doesn't have any moves mapped to the accelerometer. I know they're planning to let you configure your setup however you want, inluding mapping moves to the accelerometer on your own, but default gameplay has no motion controlls at all. What's the advantage?
I really hope that if the new zelda title uses the motionplus tech, that nintendo will go ahead and bundle one in with each copy of the game. Otherwise it's not gonna work out so well for them when mom gets home and her kid can't play the new zelda. They'll probably have a wiimote only controll scheme too though, hmm...
Speaking of zeldas, does anyone else get the impression nintendo is avoiding the whole delay frustration (ex: twilight princess delayed 4 years until the next system comes out) by not announcing their games until they're withing a year of release? That would make this year's E3 make more sense.

JokesJokes

It just reminds me of the N64 days all over again.

Furysetzer

It reminds me of MS and the 2 SKUs, and how the devs can't make games that require the HDD. I really hope Nintendo makes some major steps to get these devices out to everybody.

Billkwando

Wow...no wonder Nintendo has bad third party issues. It seems that Nintendo is only making things worse for themselves since E3. Good relationships aren't built on secrets.

Ryodestined

Nintendo's the new Sony! Awesome!

Somehow another mega-huge Japanese game company is becoming jaded and out of touch...

Brendar

1. It's E3. I think announcing concepts like this is suppose to be what a business conference/trade-show is for.

2. Who sayd Nintendo's been holding out? The only thing they've got is one Wii Sports Resort saber game (as far as I know anyway) and Wii Sports is in a way a "glorified tech demo." It's reasonable to say they've only managed to finish their development of this, so if developers really wanted to implement this system into their, delay is most likely going to happen anyway.

3. Considering the type of games third-party developers in general have in the pipeline, are we really going to get heated about the possibility that some typical sloppy third-party Wii shovelware won't get this device implemented within it?

questworld

I imagine this has to do with Nintendo's long-standing secrecy obsession. Although getting more people upset with them hardly seems like a good thing right now.

Muk1000

In a way I am happy for Nintendo, because they are getting the most media attention as well as the majority of the market.

However it seems that almost every time this happens Nintendo goes and gets complacent with their success.

I guess they really needed to keep MotionPlus a secret until their E3 conference...
Oh wait they reveled it a day before anyway.

Baffling...

Reikson