@art_zombie: Then I respectfully submit you weren't really over your "WoW addiction". The fact that you fell off the wagon, as it were, and went back furthers my opinion. You badmouthed the game so much that you set yourself up to go back and be ready to enjoy it again.

I did 2 and a half years in that game. I've seen more things than most people. When someone said "what's scholomance" months after the expansion pack, I was sad and angry. And then I realized that the game really isn't worth $15 a month, and stopped. Never looked back and I don't sit here telling people how "OMG bad" WoW is. If they want to keep playing it, that's their prerogative.

If you have to constantly badmouth it as your motivation to not go back, you're still addicted to it.

Captiosus

I think the intro music is the fault of X-Play. I never heard it until the crib-sheet version of Zero Punc. debued on it.

It really is terrible... like the current intro music to X-Play.

Tenth

@Arsenicberyllium: Well, if you go the artist's rendition of him that is the "narrator" character doesn't he usually appear in all white with only a top hat?

HAH! Bet you'll never see ZP the same again!

TRT-X

I'd really love to try AoC...but like every MMORPG that you have to pay a monthly subscription for, it's such a commitment :(

I think I'll stick to good old singleplayer WRPG, D&D RPG and JRPG, especially after this review. The closest I'm coming to online RPG will be Diablo 3.

Candlejack

I love ZP, but the new generic metal music makes me really sad. It used to be a clever use of copyrighted music that made him seem eclectic and perhaps tongue-in-cheek. Now it just makes him seem like every other angry, inferiority complex-ed male gamer with a too many opinions about everything and an awful penchant for like-minded music.

TomSkylark

@justhesh: I think what makes him funny (at least to some of us) is the whole wit/brutal honesty thing, not to mention the crude animation.

If you don't like ZP or it criticized a game you happen to like, just say so.

Silverbackne

Now I feel like playing a naked woman in a game too.
No! Wait! That came out wrong! AAAAHHH! Not the face...!

Eruanno

@elocanth: FFXI had a good combat system idea, but it was very restricting and not well thought out going forward... and they sucked at creating encounters for it.

Seriously... Alliance Size of 18... Then later tried to tack on a way to make encounters that required more... Dynamis was horrible, Most encounters after Sky were horrible... Though, I admit I quit into the 2nd expansion, didn't stay long enough to see how things changed when the puppetmaster arrived.

The combat of a game can be absolutely amazing, but if the encounters suck... who cares.

Aex

Good thing he played the game naked, otherwise he would have realized that every fucking piece of armor looks the same.

Silverbackne

WoW didn't invent MMORPG fundamentals. And editing your voice track so that it goes fast-forward and without a pause does not make you funny.

justhesh

His reviews are getting a tad predictable but they're still good stuff.

VixDiesel

@Kenny:
AGREED

I don't understand why he changed it either. Don't talk radio broadcasters use licensed music all the time going into breaks and even as their theme song? Doesn't seem like the kind of precaution you would need to take for a five minute long weekly review.

Mr. Mastodon Farm

*Monocle*

My word! Yathzee might not really hate 'muhmorpuhgurs' but I sure do. Nothing against this game in particular of course, I even read it had a pretty decent combat system for a MMORPG.

Hassun

@Heliophage: not rocketscience. this sort of stupididty can be easily defeated with arithmatic.

3inst3in

@GusherKid:

Fahey has even played Age of Conan himself. I wonder if it takes rocket science to convince you that you're wrong.

Heliophage

@GusherKid:
"Played to level 30" and "Played through thirty levels" is saying the same thing. I don't understand exactly what planet you're coming from with this train of logic.

Mr. Mastodon Farm

I love that the Minions were named Dave, Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mitch, and Titch

I'm pretty sure that sailed CLEAR over many peoples heads haha

Dauragon C. Mikado

I laughed when he bashed the game's "You Are The Chosen One!" nonsense, and its not limited to only MMORPGs, or public schools.

That shit where all NPCs admire you like you're some kind of porn star turned me right off games such as 'Twilight Princess'. 'Majora's Mask' was far superior in that trapped in a Groundhog Day time-loop you were practically a demigod, although doomed to an eternity of obscurity, the side-quests made you want to help the supporting characters, not this Lord of the Rings-esque "chosen one OMG" drivel we get today.

All fantasy writers can stick their cliché destiny, fate, reincarnation, and prophetic visions plot-devices up their arses.

humongous_mouse

That title music and intro are starting to get old.

Kenny

Reviewing a MMO is a pretty tough job. I can't really think of any mmo that launched and was 100% perfect not requiring any serious updates.
You gotta basically have to wait a year to really judge the game. Unless there are some serious engine issues, or big lack of content, It's hard to take a review seriously for a mmo.

As far as the kids thing goes, there really should be GM's on 24/7, who actually punish(ban accounts) people for being retards. It's a strict policy, but I remember on EQ Live, the GM's wouldn't hesitate to put a temp ban on your account, for things as small as kill stealing. This all resulted in a much more mature player base.

You can always just turn off zone/server wide chat too.

sereal

@GusherKid:
Please be stop typing and pay attention:
He did play the first 30 levels. The first 30 Character levels. He was level one and ended up level 30, thus playing through 30 'levels'
Use contextual clues and reading comprehension, please.

shinigamixbl

Coincidence that Mike's Coors Lite review was the first on Kotaku to receive a score and that score was ∞/10?

Kanik

@GusherKid: That's not an uncommon way of describing how long someone has played an MMO. In fact, it's quite common.

ShaggE

I am satiated for another week. Next, please make breast jokes about Soul Caliber 4 and also some homoerotic comments regarding the Star Wars cross-promotion. I love Yahtzee, but how many times can homosexuality be considered funny when it comes from the same guy? It stops being funny and starts having me wonder if Yahtzee doesn't have some strange issues - either with his sexuality or his writing abilities. Neither would surprise me.

Anarchist_Gamer

@GusherKid: Close. He actually put it in text form in one of his previous reviews (Oblivion, maybe? I can't remember)...the actual word he's using is "mumorpuger" ;P

Norellicus

@Franklin Comes Alive!: Haha, same here. It was like gerstmanngate all over again!

formina

@Heliophage: He said that he played through the first 30 levels. It isn't rocket science that he's thinking of it as something like Zombies Ate My Neighbors.

GusherKid

@Shabat0ge:

Hey troll, nobody wants your opinions about you not caring.

This particular Zero Punctuation didn't hit any cords with me. Maybe because I was never a addict to the MMORPG genre. I will agree with the whole body-making thing.

Cpryd001

@GusherKid: Mike Fahey did all the preview and hands-on coverage for this game. I'm sure he's played enough to know what leveling means.

baxterpunch

I once bought a starter of a CCG where all the cards had Boris Vallejo art. It was awful.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

That was an awesome one, higher quality then one's in recent memory thats for sure.

ShadowFFVI

Nails it in every respect, except he forgets the 'hater' phenomenon of every MMO that isn't WoW: people playing the MMO will spend 40% of their time chatting about how much they hate WoW until it becomes one big daisy chain of assholes convincing themselves that they've found something better and are genuinely enjoying themselves.

In between the time I quit WoW and rejoined almost a year later I spent most of it badmouthing WoW, and I understand why: I needed to badmouth it to not feel compelled to play it, I had to make it out to be 80x worse than it was to resist temptation.

art_zombie

Heh, thousands of chosen ones. Replaying The Bard's Tale still holds its advantages.

@GusherKid:

I'm more inclined to find your misinterpretation of the wording a bit more obvious. I'm confident that Fahey is familiar with the concept of 'leveling up'.

Heliophage

Hey... black lotus... Stygian... the best!

SigmundTheSeaMonster

@Shabat0ge: Um... then don't watch them?

ƒox

@belo: Exactly! I still feel like FFXI got its core gameplay down better than any other MMO to date (insofar as it's a *group* game that enforces cooperation and coordination), and being able to change classes whenever you want without having to roll a new character was sheer genius that helped form a great community.

Every other MMO I've played since FFXI has seemed shallow by comparison, even if they were more easily accessable.

elocanth

This game needs a LOT of work... I posted my thoughts about it here:

[www.8bitculture.com]

Probably too much to write out here.

thegreatpablo

I LOL'd when I went to the escapist site to view this and the entire thing was wallpapered in Age of Conan advertisements.

Franklin Comes Alive!

@ShaggE: >_>

I'm talking to the writer of this Kotaku story who obviously doesn't know what Yahtzee means when he's talking about all the leveling.

GusherKid

I kind of like the new music

Crawl to China

funny... except for the crazy killing illustrator at the end.

dadeisvenm

Still funny, but the new intro and music are crap.

Atheist Jew

@GusherKid: I'm like Yahtzee, I usually got bored around lvl 30 in both WoW and EQ.

Eltigro

Still hoping to see this on the 360 at some point, but yeah, seems to click with most of what my friends who have played the game have said. Then again ,the whole point of playing Conan games is to get in on the whole sweaty barbarian/half-naked wench fantasy.

Someone needs to track if the naked server actually happens. I wonder if there is a way to end up with enchanted jewelry to give you protection, but still lets you let it all hang out...

Beelzebozo

this dude's reviews are getting old and jokey. OVER IT

Shabat0ge

@Elderwulf: Nah, I play on Bluesteel PvP and the level of asshattery is through the roof in OOC chat. If anything there are more "pissant youths" in AoC than WoW.

I agreed with almost everything Yahtzee said, but I still enjoy the game. I find the combat to be fun. I'm hoping some of the problems end up ironed out in the future. It's not like I've got any other MMO I want to play right now.

Aeralindor

Yeah... kinda miss the forced group play of FFXI (not the gawd awful time-sink requirement though).

belo

@Elderwulf: Go to a PVP or a RP-PVP server and all you run into is foulmouthed dickheads who go around griefing and then make fun of the people who are being griefed. It sounds like Yahtzee was on a PVP server.

my subscription ran out Sunday, and I'm still wondering if I should redo my subscription Friday when I get paid. It's a good game, but it has little to no addictive qualities, which is what keeps people coming back. Add to that the fact that even on a RP-PVP server hardly anyone RPs. And the PVP server my main is on is full of twats.

Thassodar

@baxterpunch

@GusherKid: I assume you aren't either. RPGs usually have a "leveling" system. In other words, Yahtzee played until he reached level 30. As in, he leveled up 29 times.

ShaggE

I don't know what he means about Twats in the general chat. Maybe because I'm playing on a PvE server, but I'm assuming the M rated game is keeping a lot of piss ant youths out. I'm finding it fairly fun since you can actually solo and it feels challenging. Level 35 now. I have not had the first rant of Balls of Steel, homophobia, or typical wankering chatter occur yet.

Elderwulf

Nice. First one in awhile that made me laugh out loud.

ShaggE

I am sure Funcom pays extra to have Yahtzee point out that their product is vastly inferior to their greatest competitor.

But it would be hillarious if a naked server started because of the review.

sammfreak

"Ememorpagah"

That's... almost the way it's supposed to be said. Yahtzee is saying Memorpagah.

"Yahtzee plays through the first 30 or so levels of the game"

Not too familiar with RPGs, are you?

GusherKid

yeah i pretty much agree I've already canceled my subscription, I'll maybe revisit it in a few months, we'll see though. Here's to hoping WAR's extra time in the over is worth it -_-

demonknightinuyasha

he nailed it great! Exactly what I think of MMO! Why is ppl laying this?

xiked

Mostly right on, but for anything but mages, yeah, armor helps a ton.

Still wouldn't mind seeing a completely naked server, though.

baxterpunch

'Twas a good one, that. Though the intro still seems incongruous.

Gene-ius

Awww...I'm not gay, but I was kind of hoping Yahtzee himself would be naked.-

Arsenicberyllium

30 seconds in and it starts to do the buffering thing. Just without the actual buffering.

DravenX23

"such as the other week when my Coors Lite review went up. Awkward! "

Uh oh, I smell Faheygate coming on!

Captain_Collide

the key thing i think people need to know from this review is the tweak after tweak via patches thing. That in itself is what made me quit AOC. I still have 5 days left on my subscription, but im not renewing it for probably about 6 months. AOC has potential, but it was rushed. Its obvious how rushed the game is simply by the fact that it hasnt even been 2 months yet and theres been significant changes to classes. The game isnt balanced and theres no end game content. I dont know if it was a lack of closed beta testing or a matter of ok we need to get this game out now, but in the end they released it way to early. I wanted to like this game so much. I spent hours and hours grinding my way to 76 to finally just quit because of there constant silly tweaks. I think the thing that finally made me just say screw it was the whole being silenced on respawn thing. So basically the entire time you had your invulnerability after respawning you cant cast any buffs unless you cancel it or wait for it to run out. Which in itself isnt that bad until you realize the only thing lvl 80s in kheshetta do is camp the respawn. So you either had to run away with the invulnerability and hope you got away or turn it off and hope you could buff up before they killed you.

Detre

@Silverbackne: If you must know, I think he's a poor man's Charlie Brooker.

justhesh

@humongous_mouse:
I think there's a set of rules set by the powers that be. Every game, for one reason or another, must have:

1) Chosen one
2) Mana Tree or World Tree
3) Infinite Tower/Castle
4) A bird you can ride on
5) Boobies

Xagest

Awww, couldn't go to E3 Yahtzee.

Sad.

PsycheE

I love his evil character more & more!

dmfamzo

@ShaggE: That's the point that GusherKid's making. Saying "the first 30 or so levels of the game" makes it sound like they're levels of Super Mario World or something; "the first 30 or so character levels" would be more accurate.

tk.

Gosh, this is one of his best. Honestly, he has weaker and stronger episodes, but this one had my bursting out laughing more than three times.

"a shame to my parents" - epic win.

Blimey.

Barts

Wow, first one I saw with the new intro. What next, more than four colors (black, white, blood and poop)?

I love hearing him gripe about the problems with MMOs, since even I can't understand their allure after playing so many.

Skeith27

I really like Yahtzee's style. I'm very cynical when it comes to games and rarely sit down and expect anything above average with the exception of GTAIV, COD4 and any new Timesplitters. I can see where he's coming from in his reviews and likes to point out the negatives and at least he does so in a very entertaining way. I don't like to know what's great about a new title, I like to know what's wrong with it, since annoying things are likely to have more of an effect on me than the great things, since crap things tend to outweigh the good in most games. I feel I can watch a Zero Punctuation review and if things annoy Yahtzee, they'll likely annoy me. Perfect reviews. And occasionally the man will point it something that I've never thought about before but now seems glaringly illogical and humorous. Come on, who had thought about the relationship between Bowser and Mario until his Mario Galaxy review?

shufflemoomin

It kinda bothers me that people are paying a subscription for a large chunk of single-player gameplay.

Xagest

I hate the single/multi confusion. I particularly hate when I meet/am saved by key people from the source material (IE: LotRO, SW:G).

God. Massive multiplayer, people!!!

Willbear

GusherKid misunderstood Fahey and tried to act a bit elitist. After being called out on it, it seems that he did not want to point out his error...

stetsonblade

I hate being the "chosen one" in any kind of game. Making me play the role in a MMORPG is just insane.

gamadaya

Ah Yahtzee... you never get old to me =3

AoC was an utter dissapointment for me. I know a lot of people liked the starting town (I've forgotten the name already) but I hated it =s
I don't play MMOs to have a single player game! I spent all my time being told I was the linchpin of fate while locked away in my own 'special' instances. Not fun =/

For me, I'm a total social gamer so the very ideal of what an MMO should be is like a light to my gaming moth. Sadly, they never turn out to be anything close to that wonderful promise because they're not really social games but grindfests instead =/

I'd kill for a game that was about people for a change... where priests gained power not by killing faceless monsters in open fields but by gathering new recruits to their god, building shrines and the like. Where mayors to towns were people voted in by the people of the town. Where Grom's axe was either made by Grom or belonged to Grom at some point and was imbued with awesome power from his passing soul as the mighty hero breathed his last.
Heck, even having your advancement related to your actions would be nice... call me crazy but imagine getting better ice spells from... ICE DUNGEONS! But no, you gain a better ice spell by doing random mishmash quests (fetch me my oar!) by the dozen, hell you could do them in a volcano for all it matters.

Ah well... excuse me while I go kill 500 bunny rabbits with a blunt stick to learn a higher rank of fireball.

Geminosity

@tk.: Except that everyone here, with the exception of GusherKid, knew exactly what Fahey was talking about. Not only that... we knew, HE KNEW what he was talking about.

GusherKid's original post reeks of an elitist, new poster, who thought he was being clever.

Tenth

Awesome based purely on the fact that there was a Boris Vallejo reference. I urge you all to check out his artwork, its cheesy to the point of being epic.

[vallejo.ural.net]

Apparently he is married to a female bodybuilder, which could explain why his work is vaguely homo erotic.

arepeegee

I'm enjoying AOC, but for me, I'm playing it as a Conan game first, an MMO second. I'll solo everything I can, and maybe group for %1 of things, but pretty much when I reach the point where all that is left is raiding and group content, I'll quit.

dry-roasted-peanuts

I love how this and AVGN come out on the same day. I have so much entertainment on Wednesdays.

gamadaya

The past few reviews weren't great for me, but this one was hilarious.

Vorpal

This is excellent. In the background I can hear the frantic double-clicking of my wife taking all of her clothes off (apart from her hat: apparently her hat "kicks ass").

Genuine real-time-as-I'm-typing-this wife quote: "I do honestly feel a little bit naked and quite rude. Shame I can't quite bring myself to take my hat off."

She's now having a whale of a time. She wholly agrees with the review, by the way.

(Real-time wife quote 2: "It feels very strange having big, burley armoured men running towards me when I'm wearing nothing but a thong!"
I can't imagine why she'd say that, I do it all the time HAR DE HAR HAR. Anyone, everyone in the EU to the Bori server, and get yer kit off!)

hairysammoth

@Captiosus:

Because high end is all armor based leveling, there is no permanent reward for dungeon grinding...

As soon as a new expansion releases, it's all useless...

cookiesareafriend

@GusherKid: "It isn't rocket science that he's thinking of it as something like Zombies Ate My Neighbors."

You definitely need to give Mike Fahey more credit to know what he's talking about when he uses MMORPG jargon. I haven't had a lot of experience with MMORPGs myself, but I still find it incredibly common to refer to the leveling system like he did. "Levels 1 through 10 are really easy", "Man, it took forever to get to level 60."; that doesn't sound familiar?

Vorpal

He just likes to hear his own voice speaking apparently clever (because he says them so fast you don't have time to determine their actual cleverness) things really quickly...

There are tons of 'conditions' (class, non-pvp, etc..) that would change almost everything that he chose to bag on that if he had tried them he wouldn't have had a game to take the piss on anymore.

Vergobret

Im kinda surprised really. He didnt really blast the game on anything serious. Im not even sure how having too many ways to kill a person can be possible in a game, kinda confused me that it was a part he complained about. Tho what i found odd was when he acted like the game was bland when my feeling on the matter is that graphicaly speaking Conan is a breath of fresh air in a sea of super genericon mmo worlds. The starting island is lucious and at the same time has its own very unique arciteture and quests

Murrytmds

Some reason I find the idea of a nudist druid naturalist rather charming.

Psudonym

I've liked some of his past reviews better. His gaming noobness shows with this one and how he tries to compare it to WoW. There were plenty of MMORPGs out there before WoW came on the scene, he acts like WoW started the entire craze.

FreekyDeeky

@JustThisGuy: They hope for the level of sucess that WoW has enjoyed, yes, but it's not the Nativity of MMOs that it's made out to be.

justhesh

I miss the music variety. A lot.

Spartan1308™

@FreekyDeeky: Really? "Noobness"?

...

Really?

In any case, while I'm sure that we can all get into a pissing match about how we were bumping heads in MUDs on MIT's mainframe back in the late 70s, it would ultimately be a futile and utterly geeky exercise of onanistic oneupmanship. WoW is the white elephant in the room; it's the title that nearly every other MMORPG is trying to emulate, whether they admit or not. New games aren't trying to be EQ, or UO, or Meridian 59, or whateverthefuckelse title you want to namedrop to prove your "uber-leetness"; consequently, it's the most relevant point of comparison, especially when we're talking about a game that boils down to people with swords whacking things for money.

JustThisGuy

"He just likes to hear his own voice speaking apparently clever (because he says them so fast you don't have time to determine their actual cleverness) things really quickly..."

It's no Screenwipe, that's for sure.

justhesh

@justhesh: Well, yes; strictly speaking, I think we'd both agree that WoW is just a super-polished version of EQ's basic 3D graphics/gameplay framework. Nonetheless, I believe that WoW is now the standard that most new MMORPGs strive for, especially if they're based on ye olde standard swords-n-sorcery trope.

While I'm obviously not privy to the inner workings of most game developers, would anyone really be surprised if a good 90% of new MMORPG pitches began with, "It's like World of Warcraft, except..."? While WoW certainly wasn't the first, it has--by virtue of its own ubiquitousness--become the new yardstick that most other MMORPGs will be measured by, unless the title takes drastic measures to separate itself from the grindfest hordes.

JustThisGuy

It doesn't matter that individual features in Wow pre-existed, the fact of the matter is most MMORPGs are trying to be Wow regardless.

The same way that Tactics games try to copy Final Fantasy Tactics, even though that wasn't first. Or how FPS's were trying to copy Doom or Quake even though they weren't first either.

royaljester

@Willbear: And yet it's still just as inaccurate as Yahtzee's original statements. The fact of the matter is that dozens of comparable games came before and after WoW.

WoW neither invented that style of gameplay, nor perfected it. Stating that all post-WoW MMOs are simply trying to be World of Warcraft is as vain and fallacious as saying all post-1950s rock and roll artists are trying to be Elvis Presley.

justhesh

@JustThisGuy:

He states the interface, the terminology, etc are all stolen from WoW which is nonsense.

99% of the stuff in WoW was already on the market. It just attempted to streamline the entire gameplay process to appeal to new MMORPGers who didn't like the grind of the last mega-popular MMORPG, Everquest. In many ways, WoW was a copy of Asheron Call 2's format.

I had the same issues with his Call of Duty review. He reviewed it and didn't even bother to play online. WTF? Online play is what makes up the replay value of most shooters unless they're a game like Bioshock that is purposefully aiming at an intense offline campaign.

Entertaining reviews to watch, but I don't take him serious as a game reviewer. Not trying to beat my nerd chest LOL, I just get the feeling he's doing these reviews for fun-to-watch animated clips, not serious critiques on the gaming.

FreekyDeeky

Hehe. That is all. The only memorpagah that I'm intereseted in right now is Stargate Worlds.

Herabec

@JustThisGuy:
Man. Well said.

Willbear

WoW has subscription numbers significantly higher than just about anyone. They've also succeeded so well they are known to the non-gamer population, with a presence on regular TV and so forth.

I don't know if they innovated the ! and ? over quest-giver heads, but they definitely popularized the idea. (EQ notably had nothing like it)

They were very different from other MMOs in many ways 'hardcore' MMOers decry... and got fantastically popular. Hmmm.

Darn tootin everyone measures based on WoW. They'd be stupid not to.

Willbear

He mispelled "you're" in "you're special"!!

omzgogmgozmgozmgzomgzogmogmg

Thugmunk

@justhesh, @FreekyDeeky: Yo guys, I hope I made it clear that I'm fully aware that WoW was not the ur-MMORPG--see: references to MUDs, EQ, UO, M59. But WoW's insane subscriber base--which is at least 10x larger than EQ's base during the latter title's peak years--is difficult to ignore. I fully believe that many MMORPG designers are/will consequently [be] copping moves from its playbook, intentional or not. While possible, I find it difficult to believe that the guys coding Swords and Tits 2: The Tittening are loading up the original EQ and telling themselves, "Man! We should be just like this game, except with...!"

Regardless, would you guys have been happier if he said that AoC was ripping off MAD, or DAoC, or any other arbitrary (or, if you prefer, more accurate) title for the sake of comparison? Or that he make a list of each MMORPG that AoC was inspired by? I think that such maneuvers would be both tedious and futile, with the references sailing over most people's heads. Due to its unprecedented number of subscribers and its cultural cachet, WoW is an easy point of comparison that the target audience will instantly recognize.

Also, @Willbear: thanks.

JustThisGuy

lol he said Baige

Worthy

@GusherKid: Not too familiar with me, are you? Someone ban him.

Mike Fahey

I don't know if anyone can make a "MaMorpagah" that won't be skewered with the WoW stake. It's like watching Halo and saying "Oh another Wolfenstein wannabe." I do, think sir Yahtzee is spot on with his reference to the education system. Spot on.

thirstypilgrim97

@Mike Fahey: He might be kind of slow in the brain, but not banworthy!

The Instructor

It's not a good sign when the same jokes are being re-used.

Gestahl

Unforgetten Realms ad at the end <3

okrangerbob

@JustThisGuy: It's one thing to use WoW as a reference point. It's another thing entirely to say that its features are being copied. And in this case, he's doing the latter, and not simply the former as you suggest. His claim that every MMO is just ripping off WoW's features is not only untrue, it's asinine.

It's got nothing to do with WoW's popularity, or the size of its user base, and it's got nothing to do with what viewers will recognize. He specifically said that all MMOs are trying to be WoW because they have the same controls, terminology, and gameplay as WoW. That's misleading and just plain wrong. So he's either making an out-and-out lie, or he's vastly uninformed. You can decide which one it is for yourself. But don't kid yourself into thinking it's anything else.

justhesh

Yahtzee is right, I end my subscription awhile ago, I mean I was in the doomsayer server and there were soooo many asshats greifing me and throwing out random racial slurs. WHAT POSSIBLE FUCKING ENJOYMENT CAN YOU POSSIBLY GET BY ANNOYING SOMEONE TO DEATH....hmmm...now that I think of it, why did I get into MMO's again, it was the same thing in EQ except it was slightly toned down. MEH what can you do, all PVP MMO's are flawed because you can't work in a world of sociopaths and essentially thats what MMO's are, an interacting of people without any rule to it. I'm leaning towards singleplayer games cause I don't have to interact with any one else.

themule

@themule:"I'm leaning towards singleplayer games cause I don't have to interact with any one else."

Sounds like you should be playing Guild Wars, the MMO that's, well...kinda not.

justhesh

@justhesh:

Wait--are you nitpicking at semantics, at this point? How... petty.

Look, dude: I'm not entirely sure what he said specifically, and I don't care to replay the five min. video to find out for myself, so I'll take your word for it. I was just pointing out to Freeks that, with a new MMORPG, comparisons to WoW are both inevitable and ultimately valid, especially if it fits the s-and-s trope. Is Yahtzee either lying or uninformed? Sure. Wouldn't be the first time. But it's not like he's an infallible indicator of a title's quality, either. Now, am I lying or uninformed? Maybe. Why don't you tell me why that might be the case, instead of flailing away at strawmen?

In any case, is it safe to assume that you would be happier if he said that AoC was ripping off EQ/AC/M59/AO/UO/DAoC/Lineage, or whatever your preferred frame of reference is? While I can understand the need for accuracy, I also don't see why WoW is any less valid as a reference point. It's a big, big game. It's not beyond the pale to assume that any new swords-n-sorcery MMORPG is "trying to be WoW because they have the same controls, terminology, and gameplay as WoW" precisely because of its unparalleled success.

JustThisGuy

@JustThisGuy:When you neither know what he actually said, nor care to find out, you're not helping yourself to understand. It's not nitpicking at semantics. You're simply trying to make a point that's not correlative to what Yahtzee really said.

Again you bring up the phrase "reference point", and again it doesn't apply. As has already been said, he's not simply using WoW as a reference point. He's directly saying that all MMOs are trying to counterfeit WoW's features, implying that WoW is somehow the origin of said features (all the way down to terminology). Which, as we know, is an entirely false claim to make because they were never WoW's to copy from.

As I already said, yes, it's safe to say that all MMOs hope to achieve the same level of market success that WoW has seen. But to actually imply that they're aping WoW-created features is erroneous and misguided, regardless of their hopes or intentions. Put succinctly, Yahtzee is wrong; FreekyDeeky is right.

justhesh

@justhesh: I'm beginning to think that you and I mean slightly, if critically different things when we speak of "reference points."

In any case, implication is a tricky thing, no? They float, and not everyone's going to pick up the same implicative cues.

JustThisGuy

@JustThisGuy: By which I mean, I 'm also saying that "all MMOs are trying to counterfeit WoW's features"; more specifically, why and how such a critical feint is both expected and--to a certain extent--justified in the post-WoW MMORPG world, especially if they're based on an s-and-s framework. However, I'm also not trying to imply that WoW originated or perfected the genre, which we both agree is mind-bogglingly foolish--and whatever your opinions on Yahtzee are, he's most likely not that dumb and ill-informed.

Semantics, friend. It's a quibble over proper semantics because you feel that he should have made proper critical comparisons/attributions, while I think that they are entirely unnecessary.

JustThisGuy

I'll probably regret jumping into this but...

The point is that AoC probably did rip off WoW for a lot of it's stuff. Now, as you say WoW ripped those from the ancients of the MMO world but the simple fact is that AoC very likely wasn't trying to emulate those games but rather the last in the chain.
Ironically I find that a sad state of affairs; designers are just copying what has gone before almost mindlessly from the next in a long line instead of looking at things and perhaps thinking if there isn't a better way.

I'm kind of confused why this is even an arguing point though as it's not like any of us watch Yahtzee for deeply insightful reviews is it? We watch him for fun, not information and as far as I can tell that's what he makes them for =3

Geminosity

Honestly, there is no point reinventing the wheel. WoW created a lot of concepts that are, within this particular context, flawless.

The next big MMO will be the one that shifts the context so much that the WoW conventions do not apply (ie a car that doesn't even NEED wheels).

kwant

Oh gosh, a less than perfect critique for a game posted on a website wallpapered with advertisements for that game.
Ben Croshaw, the next Jeff Gerstmann? D:

... nahh.

JoyOfJoys

Lmfao, I live in Essex.....

Smiffy21

I can't stand that guy's voice anymore.

josh.com

love the new opening. and that snake joke was funny as hell.

islandknight