I'm just glad that the people at Bungie, even if its just one guy, can see how a good game is made. I like the Halo series, but they dropped the ball in a lot of areas, especially the single player campaign. All the characters except for Master Chief and Arby were horrible looking while in CoD4, it seems all the characters, at least main characters, were all treated with the same amount of effort and detail.

Killer_WaLrUs

This totally beats Kamiya and Itagaki taking pot shots at each other.

@Shiryu: Sadly, considering the Retro firings, it seems Nintendo has mostly given up on Metroid.

Perhaps they can farm it out to Infinity Ward >_>

Nirolak

cod4 copied a lot of their crap from bf2...

MaloMan

Call of Spartans: Future Combat, Fall 2010, confirmed.

CHU BOI

Well sounds like they're giving a clue about their "entirely new" franchise ...

yeah sure COD 4's online is inspiring every god damn FPS coming out, the resistance was one of the first to show the reward system

but rather thatn that, if you're asking me, they're planning to do a realistic war game,

Close to COD and probably killzone

but with their own style

and hey Multiplatform ? I'd say NEVER say never !

they're seen the huge success of COD on cross platform,
they got their arses kicked :P

and they're no longer attached to the MS

so who know's maybe they're walking in a completely new path !

Insane

Just pointing out a typo, shouldn't it be XBL, since XBLA stands for xbox live arcade?

PAULINK

It's great to see some mutual respect and admiration from developers, especially when the games are this big.

Dragonzigg

Call me when Miyamoto says "Mario, Samus and Link could learn from Call of Duty 4!". Now THAT would rock my world.

Shiryu

aslong as they dont make halo 3 suck like cod 4 does :P

adamr999

Hear hear. Just like CoD can learn from a lot from Halo. Most importantly, how to fix the broken grenade mechanics!! *SIGH* Good to see great developers sharing the love.

kennyd1

Always nice to see developers acknowledge each other instead of bitching how more "innovative" their game is.

DigiMish

Ohhh ... the irony... more like Halo can rip from COD4! Not that COD4 is innocent in the ripping from other games department!

Dragnipur

@Shiryu: nah, he'd say he could have created CoD4 if he wanted to.

Ryumeka

If Halo 4 is anything like CoD4, I will hunt Bungie down and decapitate them.

Refused

@Nirolak: lol, totally, but Halo likes Itagaki too, which explains the ninja armor in Halo and the Spartan in DOA...

GOSH! THAT's where Soul Calibur got their Star Wars ideas!!!

Ultrasinc

I wish people didn't treat competition between two games like a soap opera.

Aye Mak Sicur

So basically, perks for Halo 4 have been officially confirmed?

AlbenoEpiX

I thought that nothing would stop me playing Halo 3, then CoD4 came along... I have played Halo 3 once since then, and it felt like I was walking in treacle. Call of Duty 4 beats it in almost every aspect. The only thing it is missing is Team Doubles (loved that), and the whole Halo 3 infrastructure, with the file sharing, stats on Bungie.net etc.

Now, if only CoD:WaW can come close to CoD4 in gameplay. I look forward to seeing what new perks are introduced. Not too please with the return to WWII, but I'm a huge WWII geek anyway so I'll not lose any sleep over it.

duckmouth

@ironraiden: What's EA got to do with this? And if they simply take other people's stuff and ruin it, then why do they have skate, Dead Space, Mirror's edge, spore, mass effect and boomblox? They're all pretty original, and those that are released are good, and those about to be released look better. EA's had a pretty good record this gen, and long may it continue.

stoneagedan

I glad they can admit that COD4 did certain things much better than Halo 3.

IronsUK

Not sure about this. I thought COD4's campaign had some really cheap moments on it, particularly on Veteran. What about the TV studio? You can take cover and shoot people, but if you really want to clear the level you should stand in a cupboard in the far corner to prevent enemy respawns. Just like real warfare.

If they learn anything, it should be using scripted events rather than cutscenes to generate drama and move the story.

stoneagedan

"to see developer take another's work, incorporate it and hopefully improve what they do."

Well, if you change "hopefully improve" for "inevitably bury into a pile of sh*t", it's pretty much what EA's been doing for years.

ironraiden

At first I thought "hey, its nice when game developers don't talk trash about the competition." At first. Then I realised the truth: bungie aren't gamers. If bungie were really gamers on the internet the quote would be more like "man that crap of doody poor suxx so damn hard!!1 evry1 hear h8s it hardcore 4realz. we dun wanna do crap like that, itz 4 n00bz!"

They make games well, but obviously no one there has ever played one. Maybe it's for the best this way....

penty85

LEARN ?

Nah..

Copy is the correct term.

xCruciaLx

@Aye Mak Sicur: You sir, are my hero, and I shall follow you from here on then.

FeatherNET

COD4 is really quite my favorite shooter so far in this generation, elements great all around.
I'm pretty sure EVERY developer has something they can learn from COD4.
I'm glad Bungee openly appreciates it, certainly feels good to know that developers are still gamers at core.

tehFluffz

ARGH THESE VIDEOGAMES COPIED THESE OTHER VIDEOGAMES

I FEEL IRRATIONALLY MOTIVATED TO PROTECT A VIDEOGAME FROM ACCUSATIONS THAT IT MIGHT BE LIKE ANOTHER VIDEOGAME

Aye Mak Sicur

FPS games haven't been innovative in maybe 10 years.

ビッグ ボス

@Dragnipur:

They're FPS's. How different do you expect them to be?

And if anything, bungie should rip from Halo:CE and stop trying to add nifty features and an overblown retarded story instead of unique gameplay.

You Cannot Untoast

I disagree with the assumption that Halo needs more scripted events. Nearly everything cool I've ever experienced in Halo was just random -- really cool AI moments, hard-fought battles, amazing physics/explosions.

Strangelove

Hopefully CoD:4 takes notes from Halo 3 on 'nade spamming. I can't stand downpour for this exact reason.

But it's good to see developers looking at other games and seeing how their game could improve.

thefais

Bungie, take a lesson from Infinity Ward's outsourced server hosting. Improve that, improve level matching, release maps every 3 months (shouldn't be too hard), and you gain back my appreciation!
I Loved Halo. I enjoyed Halo 2. Halo 3 was...ok. Peas!

SigmundTheSeaMonster

I did chuckle at the idea that someone praises another for innovation, with the implication that they would be using ideas from that innovator...It's cool that they take good ideas and run with them, but it would be equally cool to see real innovation....it's kind of like the 360 Avatars - find innovation and copy it...but at least Bungie is praising them for innovation - they could have just copied, made a cosmetic tweak, and claimed to be innovative.

phloog

Hold the phone. Did you say Halo could LEARN? my god people, a franchise has finally become self aware and capable of learning and independent thought! This is how it begins.

For god's sake, nobody give halo a gun.

Rajio

@XbhaskarX: I was thinking the same thing; I liked CoD4, but aren't we passed the era of infinitely respawning enemies? I mean really...

ThisIsSick

Wait, Bungie praised the scripted and linear CoD4 single player campaign and not the totally awesome multiplayer?
But Halo 3 has a better single player campaign than CoD4, it's not just endless enemies spawning in some window and throwing a thousand grenades at you...

XbhaskarX

@Aye Mak Sicur:

ARGH YES I AGREE

CCCombobreaker

this is how it should be as oppposed to the "shit on everyone else because we are better then everyone" attitude.

btw - hopefully they will also learn from them that they could release a halo title on the PS3 a-la FFXIII. hint hint

Awoken

@You Cannot Untoast: 100% agree.

If Bungie released Halo:CE with updated graphics (Without fucking everything up and making the geometry living hell to bounce nades off of, aka Ghost Town), and Multiplayer over Xbox Live, I would play that all day everyday.

It would be sweet. The last thing Bungie needs is to reduce the skill level of their games even more, by making it like CoD4.

Refused

This is why competition is ESSENTIAL! :D

Dauragon C. Mikado

@ビッグ ボス:
Neither have JRPG'S.

IanKinslerFan

I can see it now, this game will be awesome. I don't think the next Halo game will include Spartans as playable characters. You will play as Marines in a realistic environment.

s1xsh00ter91

@aevanko:
Quite simply, on Xbox Live Halo 3 allows you to search for best connection and COD4 doesn't. Not only that, Americans have a tendency to pull host, apparently because of how Infinity Ward set up their matchmaking, meaning that Americans have a distinct advantage over people in other parts of the world.

If nobody on my friendlist is online playing COD4, I can spend over half an hour trying to find a game with a good connection.

TrjnRabbit

It's refreshing to see developers of blockbusters show some humility, honesty, and appreciation of each-others works, something that you surely don't see too often. My respect for Bungie went to +1. Can't say the same for their game.

gencid

After playing a lot of COD4 I can no longer play Halo 3. It just cannot compare IMO. It also seems very childish and the character models move too slow. Trust me I am a huge Bungie fan but COD4 just has them beat.

JustJake

@TrjnRabbit:
That comment doesn't even begin to make sense. Where the heck do you get that?

Anyway, props to the dude at bungie. Their comments help us other gamers look back and realize some of the great things a game had that we did not take notice of. For example, how COD4 made small events noticible to the players. That's cool that they point it out - it makes me appreciate the game design more.

aevanko

@SigmundTheSeaMonster:
Anyone outside of America would say that Infinity Ward needs to learn from Bungie.

TrjnRabbit

Everyone could learn from Call of Duty 4.

Bernard McGraw

Lesson Bungie needs to learn from COD4 the most: PEOPLE DIE WHEN SHOT IN THE HEAD ONCE.

You know instead of having to shoot them 4 or 5 times in the head with a BR. And God help you if you have machine gun...

VicViper

Uh oh. Ironsight-mode CoD4 clones are going to be upon us soon! I love variety personally, and I hope Bungie intends to take things like the EXP system away and not the gameplay.

Swift_

Yes lets rip everything off again incoroprate it into another bland sequel and market it till it comes out of everybodys nostrils again. It will surely make some cash.

Aeryss

No! Only learn from it's multiplayer, which makes Halo's seem extremely basic and gimped.

Don't go "learning" from their scripted single player. It was annoying and unenjoyable. Go over there, wait in the same spot and shoot 10 waves of enemies...and now to the bridge! Wait over here and shoot in the same spot until 5 waves of enemies disappear. Great! No over here!

I like how Halo, and most other FPSes, keep it moving a lot more. Shoot and progress, not shoot, wait, shoot, wait, ok...now you can progress forward. No thanks.

karasu is my homeboy

@JustJake:
Which is why Bungie said COD did a lot of good things. The article wasn't an opening to the 10,000th CODvsHalo discussion. xbox.com is over there ->

MisterMcThursday

@fearing: Um, should have been I AGREE with karasu, not I with, wow, long day already.

fearing

@VicViper: I with karasu, Halo is 500 years in the future where most characters you shoot at either have armor suits or shields of some sort... except your poor marine teamates, which is why they die so easy.

fearing

Both series have aspects that I like and dislike. In my book, anything that moves the medium, as a whole, forward is welcome.

Numerous

@Insane: This isn't about their new project. On B.net they showed off part of the new ranking system they will be adding into Halo 3. It's similar to the COD4 prestige mode.

goboard117

@MisterMcThursday: Was this article not about how they can learn from COD4. I was giving my 2 cents on the subject. Instead of just flaming people for what they posted like some people.

JustJake

@VicViper: I don't understand you for two reasons.

1. In Halo, they're wearing armored suits. So...it makes sense that weaker weapons don't give headshot kills.

2. Plenty of people use juggernaut in COD4 and survive headshots.

karasu is my homeboy

I really hated the amount of scripting in COD 4's campaign. The triggers for enemy respawn in , say, the broadcast center level, is just annoying and horrible. Obviously Halo has some scripted events, but it just feels like you can take so many paths and attack problems in so many ways in Halo 3 than in COD 4. COD forces you down a path and tells you pretty much exactly what to do - which weapons to use, which route to take. I've played certain levels of Halo 3, like Tsalvo Highway, dozens of times and it's always different.

Beyond campaign, I think it's great to learn from other games, but I hope they keep the balance of Halo versus the often unbalanced COD4. COD is fun, but there are way too many super lopsided games for tastes. If Halo starts having customized starting loadout kits, I'm gonna cry.

lionkitten

@Strangelove: exactly.

Gray665

Ugh, I dont want Halo to be like CoD4 in single OR multiplayer. While I enjoyed it, the last thing I would want is endlessly respawning guys and scripted setpieces in my Halo. What makes Halo so great to me is that the awesome, holy shit moments are all generated on the fly and completely random. As for multiplayer, I despise class based FPS, so please don't go that route. Ther perks really ruined the experience for me also. People bitch about hoarding power weapons and such but that is a lot easier to get around then everyone starting with their best gun and some ridiculous perks. Bungie please, for the love of god, don't make Halo 4 mimic anything in CoD4, especially the multiplayer.

Gray665

I've always thought this kind of sentiment was a good way to approach game design. Sadly fanboys today just ruin the idea by minimizing the act of taking transferable mechanics that work and integrating them meaningfully into your own project as a ripoff.

okenny :( ... not sure what to believe in anymore

Both were lacking single player experiences.

Online I prefer Halo 3, it's more creative and challenging especially in objective playlists.

The CoD4 Levelling system isn't balanced anyway, you can do just as well with top end guns as you can do with bottom end ones. I'd probably have preferred it more if I hadn't bought it 4 months or so after it's release when everyone was already good cos you really can't get into it now online cos you don't get drawn against people of your skill level like you do in Halo 3.

Gambia

@stoneagedan: They specifically were talking about scripted events, not the gameplay faults of CoD.

Oh, and random monkeys screaming "copycats, copycats" (not addressed at you, stone :p): No game, film, book, song, poem, etc is ever created in a vacuum. Everyone sees what has been done, what is being done and what they know when they decide what to do. Heck, see Halo's influence on the rest of the shooter world, even in CoD4.

Bungie is, and has always been, a class act when it comes to competitors. They're a role model for the whole industry. They're not the ones labeling their games "x-killers" or demeaning the opposition for whatever reason (As, say, the Haze devs did). They usually have a good word for their competition, talk to them and go see what they're doing. If I recall correctly, they had nothing but praise for Killzone 2 back when the first gameplay demonstration was shown.

Grive

Bungie and IW future collaboration confirmed!? :P

Glad to hear that Bungie see improvement for the Halo series, always good see developers respecting each other's work.

COD4 and H3 had their pros and cons. Wish COD4 had the robust custom game options like H3 does.

exkon

@fearing: did they forget to how make more powerful guns in the future?

the_answer

I'd love to see a properly worked at and balanced CoD4 levelling system in Halo, replete with perks, unlocks etc. Even if the new game was called Halo: Battle Simulation and only had a MP component, I'd be damn impressed.
Perhaps a XBLA release as well?

Mattz

Where did all of these COD4 detractors come from?

Several months ago all of you were softly and sweetly delivering oral pleasure to the entire infinity ward staff.

Dauragon C. Mikado

I think Bungie is acknowledging that the rewards system keeps people coming back for more, beyond just rankings.

WatershipDown

@Nik in NOLA:
two AR clips to down someone. really?
shennanigans just called it.

MisterMcThursday

Hey this is good news! I certainly found COD4 to be the better of the two games. I played the single player campaign of both games. Mind you that's my opinion and is subjective.

Anyone here knows why Halo has less lag than COD4? In Asia at least...

excaliburps

For all of Halo's faults (which are overblown anyway), it at least knew what type of FPS it was trying to be. CoD4 never really figured out if it wanted to be a "realistic" or "classic" shooter. Instead of one or the other, the default is some hybrid crap that mixes in using 2 assault rifle clips to kill someone with one-shot headshots (unless they have juggernaut). Setting it on the higher difficulty levels or playing hardcore matches don't make it a realistic shooter simply because of infinitely respawning enemies combined with the lack of a cover system (even though every enemy and NPC uses one).

The leveling system was neat, but I saw absolutely no reason why I should reset at level 55, especially after unlocking various gun skins and upgrades. After 55, its just an artificial ladder with no reward.

And the single player in CoD4 was a step backwards. Yeah man, I love checkpoint-rushes and infinately spawning enemies. Also, I found it really obnoxious that NPCs would use cover, yet I had to dance around the stupid walls like I was playing Quake II.

Nik in NOLA

@ビッグ ボス:
Can you honestly say that no fps has been innovative in 10 years? Go back and try to play an older fps. Seriously, I want examples of what's "not innovative" in recent games, vs what you're thinking was innovative 10 years ago.

coffinmouth

@Dauragon C. Mikado: The online is amazing. The campaign might as well not exist.

Bombing in that night/thermal vision helicopter level was so frustrating.

"Kill everything in sight!"
::drops bombs on little black stick figures running::
"You've killed civilians!"

...wtf?

karasu is my homeboy

@Gray665: I agree. I actually wish they would push that aspect of Halo forward. I know when you replay the game, enemy placements sometimes change. Instead of being on this tree the Jackal sniper will be on another tree. However I think they could do even more. Like When reinforcements arrive in the phantom, they always land in the same place. Instead the landing area should be generated according to the needs of the particular battle so the enemy could try to flank you. It would also add replayabilty to the game since each battle could chnage.

Instead of prettier graphics I'd like to see them evolve the AI, and huge battles (think Halo wars) with are spontaneously generated Non-scripted). The scripted events are fine for CoD but I prefer what Bungie when I'm playing me some Halo. I just want to see them push it to the next level.

dnez

@WatershipDown:
that and it stops people from creating new accounts just so they can boost their stats with less skilled players. and it stops the "pay for rank ups" system that losers partake in since it isn't very hard just to play and slowly earn the prestiges if thats your bag.
Both games have a lot of pluses and minuses that each could take notes on imo. Theatre = awesome. its impossible to deny.

MisterMcThursday

@ Insane:"they're planning to do a realistic war game"

I hope that doesn't mean gray. I'd like to see Halo head in a grittier direction - just not gray.

Also, - grenades should blow off body parts when they explode right next to you. Just saying.

I think the arguments of developers ripping each other off in an instance like this are moot. If they can provide an incredible experience that keeps players coming back why the hell does it even matter?! I mean I know its cool to hate on Halo - I get it. But really...

dnez

@Nik in NOLA: Should read: Online in normal mode. Campaign is basically 2-3 hit/drop enemies that just infinitly swarm until you get to a certin point on the map.

Nik in NOLA

Call of Duty 4 did a lot of things right. It will be interesting to see what IW does for Call of Duty 6. Will we see another modern day war? Or do you think CoD6 will go into the future, or maybe some kind of fantasy based war game?

I mean, there is Blizzard. What would be cool to see is maybe a CoD based in Starcraft or even (dare I say it) warcraft Fps!!

That'll make your cogs spin.

macr0planet

@MisterMcThursday:

Online.

Nik in NOLA

@VicViper: Having your character die from a single shot in the head would ruin Halo.

It takes skill to out BR somebody in a firefight. It takes much more luck than skill to simply surprise someone and pop a bullet in their dome once and get a kill. Halo has never been luck first then skill. Yes the elements of surprise and luck are there but skill is the leading trait.

I'm not dissing COD4 (it's the only game I have over 900 gamerpoints for), but I did feel like COD4 valued luck and the element of surprise too much. Although the game is a semi-realism shooter (you win some, you lose some).

ysleiro

@karasu is my homeboy: dude it wasn't a chopper.. jaja.. it was a gun ship/airplane

usually the guys you weren't supposed to kill would flash white. ie. they would be whiter than the guys you are supposed to kill.

ysleiro

I read the whole thing but it was kinda vague. He didnt' mention much aside from the scripting. (maybe thats all they got to learn?).

Anyways I hope they don't learn too much from COD4 and make games where people are very easy to kill.

I like the fact that in H3 multiplayer I can still get my kill even if the chump got the jump on me. If his BR shot is not as good as mine he is done, it takes skill. I love COD4 for how easy it is to pick up (this made it very mainstream IMO) and it's realism. But I hate how unskilled players can still get you especially in close quarters combat.

ysleiro

Neither games are XBLA titles, Brian. Easy typo.

Lebensbaum

Well I have to say what they just said is really wise. "Learning from others success". That's smart, and I encourage Bungie continue to do so.

--Core--

@Gambia:

The CoD4 Levelling system isn't balanced anyway, you can do just as well with top end guns as you can do with bottom end ones.

Most self contradicting statement of the thread?

Stop all the fan boy garbage, people. If you can't admit both titles were great at different aspects, you have issues.

michaelmacmanus

@VicViper: I have 1000/1000 gamerscore on CoD4, played the multiplayer non stop until about a month ago, but I can safely say the multiplayer is absolute garbage.

In Halo 3, BR battles take some skill at least. You need to have a good strafe, utilize jumping to the best of your ability, throw in a crouch or Ghandi Hop every now and then. You also need to get a consistent headshot 4 times while your enemy is also trying to strafe.

On top of that, you have to be communicating non stop with your team-mates (This never happens in MM though), you need to time power weapons to grab them as they spawn, control the map and work on synchronizing your team's shots to take out enemies as fast as possible (its simple, take four people and make them each shoot the same person in the head aka instant four-shot).

CoD4 takes about zero skill. You never NEED to get a headshot, its just as easy to get a body shot with any weapon and your enemy will be dead before they realise where you are. Strafing is totally eliminated because Infinity Ward thought they'd be clever and "realistic" (in other words shitty) and make it so while aiming you strafe very slowly. This means you can take on two targets who are barely moving at all, meaning aiming does not take skill, and still come out on top 50% of the time. On top of that the aiming magnetism makes sure that anyone can aim well.

Don't let me get started on Perks. Juggernaut, Stopping Power? Not only does this throw the balance of the game into issue, It actually makes the reward system pointless because Stopping Power feeds the death giving machine that is the M16 (the starting weapon.)

Infinity Ward what were you thinking? Oh right yeah, "lets make the easiest FPS and score big with casual gamers". Yes that's right I said it. Half the people on CoD4 are jackasses who think they're extremely 'hardcore' or whatever for playing CoD4 rather than Wii Sports. But honest to god they take about the same amount of skill. All of those "clans" that get together on CoD4, are you kidding me?

Infinity Ward basically made a game that was extremely easy to pick up, improve a bit and is fun and addictive to play. Yes after that huge rant I can honestly say CoD4 is a good game. But anyone who says Halo 3 needs to take a lesson from CoD4 is wrong, because making any multiplayer game like CoD4 would be a bad move. Half the fun of CoD4 is that you can find a game instantly and get kills without needing to actually try/improve and I doubt that this will happen with a game of less popularity or Halo which is popular for being more of an "arcade/traditional" FPS.

Oh and anyone who is going to reply, please take note I realise Halo 3 does not take a lot of skill, and a lot of the things I just said were exaggerated for emphasis.

Bungie should take a lesson from John Howard - Multiplayer Lead of Halo: Combat Evolved and Shadowrun.

lololollololol wall of text.

Refused

@karasu is my homeboy: @fearing:

Would it stand to reason that 500 years in the future, standard issue weapons issued to soldiers would be accordingly upgraded to kill in most circumstances with a headshot or two? If not, we'll go extinct in a war with an alien race.

Think it about it, Halo's weapon tech for humans is state of the art, by what standards, now? 300 years ago we had the ball and the musket, now we have .50 Cal Barrets, million round shellless machine guns (still in R&D, but still) and nuclear bombs were invented 60 years ago.

Something tells me that weapons of the future will maintain if not exceed the level of lethality that exists today.

@ysleiro:

It's true, it would probably change the 'Halo' experience. I think it'd be for the better. You can maybe argue that in a 1 vs 1 situation the first to 5 headshots is a test of skill, but what about 2 vs. 1 or having just survived another shoot out? You're at a serious disadvantage if you gotta land 5 shots and they have to land a lot less. I'm not saying it can't happen, but unless you're playing people who aren't that great, you're probably dead.

I find it a lot more satisfying to know that in any situation in COD4 I can survive 2 or 3 man onslaught with regular success if my aim is good.

VicViper

experience-based rewards are stupid

there is no reason for someone to get better weapons because they play more.

cod4 would be nice if there was a better ladder system but it's no fun playing with random skill level people.

kainzero

Good to see the development community behave like this.

Sad to see the inexorable Game Top Trump posts.

Zootroy

Is that Keanu Reeves? :O

Ali

CoD4 SP was awful

zaagis

@Refused: Bravo.

Gray665

@ysleiro: Just a note, the strategy doesn't go out.

It's just a different kind of strategy.

Grive

@VicViper: I agree that when considering the H3 story the human weapons seem not up to par. I don't know what the future holds for us but I hope it isn't ballistics. I hope it's "take-down" weapons that render human's temporarily paralized instead of dead.

But I TOTALLY disagree with you that making it Halo a one head shot kill game would make it better. Once you make it that easy to kill someone people will eventually become good enough to not even use teamwork. Personally when I'm on MLG on H3 teamwork is essential, communication etc.. this makes the game much better and requires dedication to learn the call-outs, set-ups and then implement them in game together with your aiming skills.

Making Halo a "quick kill" game would take the life out of Halo. Out goes the most strategy, out goes the BR skills, ghandi jumps, strafing etc.. at that point the game is more about the element of surprise as supposed to more about skill and then some element of surprise.

ysleiro

@Refused: begins to calmly clap.. then slowly speeds up...

ysleiro

@Refused: All that doesn't mean that CoD4 had no redeeming points whatsoever. The folks at bungie saw how some of the ideas in CoD4 were good, and they decided they could learn from them.

From where in that statement do you get the idea that Bungie wants to make their next game exactly like CoD4? The Call of Duty folks learned from Halo 1 and 2. Does this mean the games are exactly the same or even similar in implementation?

Grive

@Grive: "My previous post applies perfectly. The folks at Bungie noticed there were cool aspects or concepts behind CoD4. They decided to learn from them. Learning doesn't mean copy or make exactly the same. At no point in the original article did they say or even imply they wanted to make a CoD4-ish game."- Grive

I agree with you on this. Devs need to learn and implement ideas that other teams may have come up with. I'm not saying copy just learn from it and apply it to your game in a way that makes your game better.

ie. I honestly think most FPS should come with H3's theater or something like it. It is such a great feature.

ysleiro

Halo devs praising CoD4... Do you think this will make CoD-flaming Halo fanboys take pause and realize the absurdity of their pugnacious partisanship? Or will they effectively plug their ears and hum loudly over the lesson to be learned here? Fanboys: grow the fuck up.

To quote michaelmacmanus above:

Stop all the fan boy garbage, people. If you can't admit both titles were great at different aspects, you have issues.

Seriously.

B-Minus

@Refused: That's, irrelevant, actually. I read your whole post.

"But anyone who says Halo 3 needs to take a lesson from CoD4 is wrong, because making any multiplayer game like CoD4 would be a bad move.". -Refused

My previous post applies perfectly. The folks at Bungie noticed there were cool aspects or concepts behind CoD4. They decided to learn from them. Learning doesn't mean copy or make exactly the same. At no point in the original article did they say or even imply they wanted to make a CoD4-ish game.

Oh, and I don't think Bungie needs to copy anyone to make money out of Halo 4. Just sayin'

Grive

CoD4 and Halo 3 are XBLA titles? ;)

JustinSaneV2

@Grive: You probably didn't notice thanks to my huge wall of text, but I was replying to VicViper, who addressed the Multiplayer, and I then proceeded to tell him "no".

Bungie can do whatever they want with Halo 4, but when it comes to Multiplayer, taking a lesson from CoD4 is not only a huge no no, but also a real "Fuck you, we want money" to all the players who actually spent the time playing the game.

Refused

just put in that godamn sprint system and the ability to call in pelicans/phantoms and you might actually have a game i'd like to play.

ruba-dub-dub

@Refused:

I have to disagree. I'll never argue for perks and that non-sense, but it wasn't game breaking. Skill should be developed by the player, not time logged in. Hell, Konami copied it and made it much worse in MGO 2.

It's been a while since I picked up H3, but the BR wasn't the default weapon on most maps, so it's not as simple as saying the game is all about skilled BR match ups. Granted the weapons in H3 are a little bit better as opposed to the default SMG in Halo 2 that couldn't penetrate butter from 10 feet away.

To say playing stealthy or surviving when death comes so fast in COD4, doesn't take skill, is incorrect.

I think your Wii Sports argument can be applied to Halo. There's no true headshots except for the Sniper, so people can run around in the open more. Everyone moves quite slow on foot and floats in the air, as opposed to being able to sprint in COD4, making them easy targets. And there always seems to be a significant number of players when I play BTB that seem to rush a hot point toss grenades and fire frantically, struggling to get a kill, before getting killed themselves. And repeat this all match. It feels like the game is almost invites this mentality.

I guess one could argue that weapon placement on maps creates strategy, but it often creates inbalance. Maybe your team losses both snipers, or your sniper sucks, or your teammates have knack for loading a warthog full and driving headlong in the same spot where the guy with rockets has been sitting all match. Doesn't really seem right that you'll get spawn camped entire match either because of a couple mistakes cost you all the power weapons.

COD4 always felt like you a had fighting chance in the vast majority of circumstances because chances are, you'll spawn with a gun that can kill someone from 100 feet away. There's still plenty of teamwork to be applied.

There's some aspects I enjoy about Halo, namely the vehicles. H3 is an improvement over 2, but I just prefer playing a game that isn't so much about jumping around and emptying half a clip into an enemy to kill them.

VicViper

Itagaki could learn some lessons from this guy

excel_excel

Finally bungie got a clue, the reason I failed to have any satisfaction from Halo 3 multiplayer was its experince system.. I was left very unsetisfied and just liked to troll the matches I am in.. I feel not as rewarded as if I was playing CoD4.

Plsk1n

@VicViper: This is going to be 'short' lol.

BR is default in some playlists, besides anyone who actually cares about the more skill based side of Halo will play custom games.

Default weapon spawns suck, you can edit them in forge to play in Custom Games.

BTB is a bad example, especially Social. Try playing 45+ ranked players and I doubt you will see anyone act like that.

Creating and breaking setups is one of the most strategic elements to this game. Breaking a good setup is hard but if you make initial mistakes I will agree its hard to come back, but with teamwork and communication its very much possible.

Mind I will have to agree with that last paragraph. You might prefer CoD4, I prefer Halo. You can't argue against someones preference. My initial point was just that CoD4 doesn't take a lot of skill. Regardless, CoD4 is still fun to play.

Refused

I think he is talking about the rumored masterchief-less halo game (not halo 4). Apart from the perks, halo is too different a game to take much from cod4 gameplay. That's why I think he's refereeing to the gears of war/ ghost recon game. [www.gamespot.com]
(If you don't know what I'm talking about)

Puff

@Grive: Next time please don't take my posts so literally. When I said Bungie were probably going to take the route to secure the most cash, I meant they were going to appeal to the more casual crowd. This is what CoD4 was clearly designed to be, a game that is easy to play and requires a very small amount of skill, this is a game for gamers who don't want a challenge.

I never implied that Bungie were in the wrong for trying to make their game exactly like CoD4, all I did was point out the serious flaws in CoD4s multiplayer experience. Bare in mind these 'flaws' aren't mistakes; they were intended in order to make the game easier.

I honestly don't care whether Bungie implements small features like ranking systems that have absolutely no effect on gameplay (and just so you guys know, the Halo 3 ranking system IS actually being revamped in the upcoming weeks to something similar to CoD4, not that I have a problem with this). The thing I have been pointing out in all of my posts are all multiplayer mechanics. Nothing to do with ranking systems, scripted events, or rewards.

Understand me now, please, the faults I feel belong to CoD4 are its core components, like Perks, low health, anti-strafe, heavy magnetism, uber-weapons. And don't sit there and tell me for the third time that Bungie somehow saw these things and thought "Hey, that's great! Lets learn from that 'great' mechanic and put something similar, without copying exactly, into our game!". I fail to see how they could manipulate any of these features to somehow contribute to the gameplay of Halo in a positive way.

Once more, I don't care about things that don't affect gameplay. I simply do not think there is anything in terms of gameplay that Bungie could take and put into Halo to make it a better game.

I understand in the article that Bungie said absolutely nothing about making Halo 3's multiplayer mechanics like CoD4, that's why my original post was replying to someone who thought that Halo 3's mechanics were flawed in comparison to Call of Duty's. So please don't use the argument that anything I said was in reply to the article, and that I was worried or upset that my precious Halo would be noobed up CoD4 style, because that would not effect me. I would just play Shadowrun instead.

You will probably totally disregard everything I say unless you understand this fact that there is absolutely nothing about CoD4's multiplayer mechanics that I feel is desirable to an FPS that has and hopefully will continue to appeal to a more competitive FPS audience.

I really need to learn to writes less :|

Refused

@Refused: Again, did read everything. Not disregarding anything.

I understand if you dislike CoD4. I'm not it's biggest fan myself. However, saying that it has absolutely no redeeming aspects seems to me to be quite the exaggeration. I need you to understand this part: Learning is not copying. Learning is internalizing the good and the bad in another's experience. It doesn't mean monkeying behind or mimicking by the learnee. Just because they believe that CoD is good and that they can learn from them doesn't mean you'll have CoD4, or even something even remotely similar to it. CoD4 is heavily influenced by Halo 2. Do both play similarly?

Nobody is even speaking of adapting specific mechanics. That would be copying. I don't see from where do you get the cash aspect, since any big deviation Halo made would end up being counterproductive.

@Plsk1n: Read what you just wrote. Think for a minute, and then ask yourself. Who's the problem?

Grive

I hope he joked about CoD 4 single-player being fantastic...

Furu

@Grive: I dont dislike CoD4. I just happen to think its a very casual friendly game compared to the Halo series.

I never said there were no redeeming aspects of the game. Its very fun to play with friends, especially if your friends aren't into competitive multiplayer, it also has a good matchmaking system which matches people up regardless of skill, something that helps people improve dramatically. I also said my original post was full of exaggeration to provide emphasis. (Just as a note, I dont like halo 3s matchmaking system as it keeps low level of skill players playing against each other, and they will never improve unless they play better people). I wouldn't care if they copied or adapted a similar matchmaking system, as it doesn't effect gameplay.

I know learning from a game and copying from a game are not the same thing. I just made a point that there is no way to "learn" from CoD4s multiplayer experience because not only is it a completely different style from Halo, it promotes individual goals over team goals, and the gameplay its self requires very little skill.

And I also realise that even though Bungie think CoD4 is good that it is doubtful we will see a game like CoD4, I was just repling to someone who said Halo's gameplay mechanics were inferior to CoD4s.

I do totally agree with you saying that the Halo series could learn stuff from CoD4 without copying, I honestly understand your point there. But my original statement was that the gameplay in Halo 3 has nothing to learn from CoD4, and I stand by that.

Refused

@Refused: WOW,just wow.But...hmmm.I dont care,I just want to have fun and not being one of those douchebags who said they are very good and bithing about everything and why they are better,i simply don care if cod4 does not take a lot of skill,what i care is this:Is it fun?yeah,Do you need more skill in H3?yes,does it make it a better game?.hell no.

Charlie303

hey im all for learning from another company as long as it doesnt result in blatant copying. besides both halo and cod were built from the mistakes and sucesses of other shooters, so its only natural that they build off each other now.

maraxusofk

@Charlie303: I am going to go ahead and quote myself here.

"Infinity Ward basically made a game that was extremely easy to pick up, improve a bit and is fun and addictive to play. Yes after that huge rant I can honestly say CoD4 is a good game."

"You might prefer CoD4, I prefer Halo. You can't argue against someones preference. My initial point was just that CoD4 doesn't take a lot of skill. Regardless, CoD4 is still fun to play."

Refused

Nice to hear from Bungie on this, as I was kinda thinking Bungie had either given up or run into a wall with no clue where to go.

I would ask COD to take some cues from Halo's multi like removing level-ups, removing or balancing create-a-class, add CTF, more custom game options, (basically, bring it back to COD2 & 3) but whatever. They've got a new formula that clicks with some people.

Xiedo

@ビッグ ボス:

Are you kidding me? You're wrong on so many levels ... don't know where to begin ... just think about online FPSs in 1998 and what they're like now ... too many examples ... can't write them all without wasting my night ...

Strangelove

I really don't like the sound of this. I love Halo because it's Halo. I stopped playing COD4 because of things like the scripted sequences.

Scripted sequences are an awesome way to make your game a great rental.

GorbyGipper

If Bungie could make a single player campaign like COD4 I would instantly forgive them for the crap that was Halo 3, I got caught up in the Hype and thought it would be better than Halo 2's SP campaign but it just wasn't a great as I had hoped. Certainly if they can have the same kind of set pieces in their next game I will be on board for sure. The final fight on the bridge in COD4 was amazingly cinematic.

el_rezzo

Death replays in Halo 4 please

JustOneFix

@tehFluffz:
uhh COD4 and H3 are bad games with casual grabbing features.
The last good console shooter to come out was Shadowrun and it failed because it was all about gameplay and was marketed terribly.
I'll keep playing Shadowrun while everyone waits for more easy, repetitive shooters with bad gameplay to come out.
Any one who wants to play SR add my GT is same as username

Booshka

I wish Shadowrun would have stole some "grab the casual players" kind of features, because the gameplay blows both COD4 and H3 away.
I'm stuck playing a great cult classic and wishing things could have turned out differently.

Booshka

As much as I loved CoD4, I always thought it was (and still) a bit over-hyped I just see it as another good FPS (out of like hundreds)

Algerian

It would be great if Bungie doesn't replicate COD4/Infinity Ward so I don't feel compelled to spend $60 on another game.

The best part of COD4 multiplayer is the control layout,simplicity and the experience point system, which sorts out the competent players from the incompetent ones. It was refreshing to avoid the Halo multiplayer experience when COD4 came out since it was getting a little old chasing around a map for weapons while other players spawned camped.

I will instead choose to remember the great times with Halo 1 with LAN battles. Awww. They were the best of times, they were the worst of times.

TJN

EXP and RPG elements should be put into all games. I love how it makes an already addictive game even more addictive.

I would have have stopped playing COD4 by now but I must get my gold guns!!!

grubbycontroller

@JustOneFix:

Um ... you are aware of the replay feature in Halo 3, right?

Strangelove

Sony could take a lesson in humility from Bungie.

string_theory

@DigiMish: sony could learn from them about not being DICKS all the time when being interviewed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

freespeech2