As impossible as this sounds, it seems to solve one problem that I imagine plagues the heads of MMO designers: average joe vs legends. In .hack sign, you have players who achieve a lgendary status through some feat or another. In the real world, though, something like WoW doesn't provide for anyone to stand out unless you've got some badass pvp skills or the the occasional "we beat the end level boss" glory. There isn't really room for some individual or team to ahieve some sort of in-game noteriety. Having a boss that either requires such a HUGE amount of dedication, or some insanely clever trick to beat, means that whoever DOES beat them, will be making game headlines or at the very least, a good amount of in-game noteriety, and a unique feeling of accomplishment.

But 18 hours?! God DAMN! Kudoes to those guys for sticking it out that long. I'd be happy getting past level 50 in WoW... I'm a simple guy.

Garro

This game has been around since 2002(JPN) and 2004(NA) and this one and only group of people are just now getting to the last boss?!? I'm sorry but devs need to be shot for making such games and people neeed to get outside and enjoy the real world a little more.

SAKY

in the next expansion: Optimus prime raid boss, average fight time 1 week! 12 000 forms to see, oh what a thrill!

Seriously what the hell is wrong with FFXI and FFXI players geez.

@azndkay: yeah but there's failing and being completely dumb, when you see nothing works, you call it. Unless it was one big attempt of 18 hours, which I doubt. Those my friend must be real E-hobos to try for that long XD

Phibius

Should have used Data Drain.

GranzonTotoro

Can't make it too easy. Then there's no point afterward.

FeatherNET

Okay, the longest time I even spent in a high level area in guild wars was like 5, and that was for FoW (If anyone cares) so 18 hours on a boss? What they should've done was made real life friends who play the game and have everyone switch out when they got tired. Then they would be saying, IT TOOK US ONLY 2 STRAIGHT DAYS! Also, couldn't this be a case of "Your doing it wrong!" Where they could've been going about all the wrong ways to beat the boss?

trogam

@DethKl0k666: Sure you do

ShadowFFVI

They needed more Mana

ShadowFFVI

Maybe its a way of square giving their creations a chance to inflict some suffering on the players in real life. you gots ta feel the pain before you can beat me baby!

HunterToOkie

Thanks god , ive got a life

DethKl0k666

Well my brother plays the game, I want to see how he's like when he tackles the boss.

Ben404

lol.... They waited until they threw up and passed out to stop? They're mad! There are better games to get sick over.

Metal_Slug_Solid

That's some serious BS man... 18+ hours, that's some BS man!

thefjk

@Ecks: That's what I'm thinking too. 18 hours on a boss is insane, even for an mmo. :P

sweetie55

I get bored after wanking for 30 minutes, OOOOOOOH WAIT... ;)

BigFoot44

SE has somewhat confirmed that Absolute Virtue supposedly takes 18 hours to beat. The boss was introduced years ago but nobody really knows how to beat the thing. SE has tried giving us clues but it still hasn't been defeated legitimately. Now that we know how long it takes, though, I'm sure not as many people care anymore.

As for Pandemonium Warden, I guess it takes around the same time, but this one is fairly new. Very few people have actually seen it.

Torusan

It's been decided that right now Warden is right up there with Absolute Virtue in the impossible to beat category. With SE still holding out on telling us how to beat AV, I doubt they'll shed any light on the Warden.

Hey_guy

That reminds me of days when AV in WoW used to take 20+ hours. Those were always fun.
Well, if you're NEET, anyway. :3

Channing

That boss was recently been release. Of course people won't know exactly how to beat it so they are trying different stuff. It doesn't surprise me that linkshells (guilds for the non-FFXI players) attempt this fight and fail just like that.

azndkay

I haven't played FFXI in awhile, but it is possible they are DOING IT WRONG and haven't figured out the best way of defeating the boss yet.

Ecks

that's just lame. it's like milking a lot of cows till they dry up. :( a boss is a boss but c'mon square, have justice...

zero_mickz

You know, I was in shock when Yiazmat from FFXII took me around four hours to beat .. But ~18 hours? That's beyond uncalled for, provided it's true of course.

mphz

*falls out of chair laughing*.

I think that might have made my day.

Dogysamich

Wait, this is a joke right? Or a bug perhaps?

I've never played the game myself, but this seems ridiculous.

furiku

thank god i'M playing that game anymore...

cxplorer

South Park WoW episode comes to mind.

That seems a bit insane really, I find it hard to believe Square would leave something that unbalanced in there. But then again, mabe they figured no one would ever get to be strong enough to take it on :S

beat89

It's got to be a glitch or doing something wrong. It's got to be. No developer in their right mind would require a player to do something like that. Actually, I thought Oblivion was taking the piss when it asked me to travel for miles to do the same thing over and over, if a single boss does take 18 hours, that's just milking it.

shufflemoomin

Pandemonium Warden FTW!

Seriously though this is exactly why I stay away from MMOs. I really don't have the time to game as much as required to feel like one is accomplishing much in any of them. I enjoy seeing a story through from start to finish, kind of like the way reads books. I can't imagine reading a book that would last me months, and months, and months.

xADFx

18 hours fighting the same boss, what is becoming of games now

i know length is important but that's just crazy

Alchemy_Comrade

Square did reveal the secret of AV, although they did it rather obleakly. Every time it uses a particular special attack, everyone's two-hour ability refreshes.

18 hours means you are not doing it right. (I hope)

meenangel

@foxhound009:

Some people fight the same boss for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for their entire lives - it's called a job, something that fighting the pandemonium warden will quickly rob you of.

AlbenoEpiX

It was like that back in Ever quest days, it would take upwards of 14+ hours to even get through the dungeon that leads to the last boss. then hours to kill them. Don't know how anyone could care to shit there and try and fight one thing for that long.

thaswizz

Uh just to clarify, if they sat with the same players for 18 hours they're positively retarded.

Back when my LS took on AV we had 64 people present and constantly switched out every hour with our sister LS members. When it hit 6 hours we changed the entire section of players since it crossed into their time zone, then switched back at 6 hours again.

In total we went through something like 200 players from our HNM/Sky/Sea shall, sister shell, and a collab shell.

...we wiped and gave up.

Black-Dog-Howls

If ever there were something to pin to your chest as proof of your membership of the elusive 'hardcore sect', it would be a crude graphical representation of the head of pandemonium warden - a testament to your unquestionably uber gamer-endurance.

Chardonnay anyone?

AlbenoEpiX

that's completely retarded.

and its like, since you've ALREADY played it for 18 hours, why not try to beat him and tell us really how long it takes to kill him ?

i would have, then again, i wouldnt have sat there for 18 hours trying to beat him in the first place
give me 3 hours tops and i'm out of there

Mr.Sad

omg hhaha... you must be an REAL hardcore MMO player
to play it for 18 hours.... fighting the same boss.....

buahahhahh

foxhound009

@SAKY: There is no last boss for the game. Each storyline has a final boss, but these 18 hour mobs are special condition HNMs.

Black-Dog-Howls

glad i dont play MMO's anymore, thats just mental!

Monkey Majiks

Before more people make the same comment on how stupid it is to make these boss fights this long, SE has already stated that they just added them in the game for the purpose of existing. To have near unbeatable bosses that can somehow how still be beaten. They're not required in any way. It's just a challenge for people who are crazy enough to try it and have drops that are too good to be true for those that make it. T

The only linkshells that can truly attempt bosses like this are those with members in different times zones.

Torusan

...ah. Memories of getting AV to 25% just to wipe.

I'm glad I quit FFXI.

That and the drama was unbearable.

Black-Dog-Howls

Shit like this is why I quit FFXI and washed my hands of MMORPGs completely. I feel like a better person since quitting.

CHunterX

Heh. This reminds me of an enemy in Mother 3 who has 100,000,000 HP, which would take hours to beat, unless you think to use a particular item that cuts him immediately down to 1 HP.

Zorantor

18 hours...and he wasn't beaten yet? Good lord. That's either a really weak guild or the most insane boss in history. Seriously, Square needs to change that one.

KingBroly

It didn't take 18 hours to beat. They didn't beat it, they only got its health down to about 75%.

Its not new for monsters to be tough in FFXI. One linkshell fought Absolute Virtue for over 24 hours before finally giving up.

It doesn't mean these monsters can't be killed in less time, there's usually some tactic you need to discover that weakens them, so far for Pandemonium Warden, nothing has been found. That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist though.

Kafeen

@Zero1328: "The boss indicated its elemental weakness by simply changing colours. A maximum party of three was too chaotic to notice, but a party of two can manage it."

Whaaaat? I HOPE the actual story is more complicated than that, because that sounds stupid :)

MrPerson

"You told me to cast heal on the enemy!"

Dasyatis

Great. Now I want to play Final Fantasy XI now. At least I know my goddaughter will love it, and she'll most likely be on my lap the whole time!

tinkyXIII

Ha. MMO noobs. Does nobody remember "The Sleeper?"

Xyther

I always said those MMORPG people are nuts.

lumpi

But think of the pretty items you get from it! I would laugh if they had beat it and only got a crystal drop.

brigannd

Sounds intruiging enough to convince me to play FF11 for the sole purpose of finding the tricks behind that boss. If I had the money. Sounds like they were a heck of a team, being able to beat 20 forms, and probably 20 separate tricks.

Like GranzonTotoro and Garro, I immediatly thought of .hack when I was reading this. The (obscure?) backstory for Balmung and Orca, the two legendary players in .hack, consists of this exact same situation. They obtained legendary status by beating the final boss, and figuring out the trick, and it was incredibly simple. The boss indicated its elemental weakness by simply changing colours. A maximum party of three was too chaotic to notice, but a party of two can manage it.

I wonder if this guild was simply using brute force, seeing as several forms took several hours to beat. Of course, I've yet to see a generic MMO that requires more than that.

Finding a trick to the game when playing alone, and finding a trick with a huge group of people are two very different things.

That's quite a thing to think about, huh?

Zero1328

There's an optional boss in FFXII that takes at least as long as well. Something like 50,000,000 hit points.

Yeah... I didn't bother with that one. And I wouldn't bother on this FFXI one either.

The line between "achievement" and "moron" isn't quite so fine in cases such as these.

dv8godd

@Murderdolls:

Why is it pathetic? I think it's a testament to the passion, endurance and ingenuity of gamers.

Don't knock people for attempting to do what you would not. It's essentially the same as calling a marathon a 'pointless' exercise, in that it conveys a lack of respect for the activity and the participant.

AlbenoEpiX

Maybe they're not meant to beat that boss just yet? In WoW, when the top guild made it to Lady Vashj, they weren't supposed to be able to defeat her because the content that came after her wasn't released at the time. When they did manage to kill her, she respawned again instantly. They were trying to share out the loot at the same time as fighting off the second one.

Aye Mak Sicur

Lmfao I just can't believe they kept going after the 2nd hour. That should be the farthest point for anyone.

No one thought "Wtf, this is stupid...we're fighting the same boss for 3 hours now, I'm done"?

I would love to read a transcript.

karasu is my homeboy

@Murderdolls: I've been in some 6+ hour PvP Battlegrounds on WoW, before they nubbed it all up.

Winterbringer

The longest fight in World of Warcraft is what 20-25 minutes? 18 hours? If anyone honestly fought for 18 hours straight then this world is far more pathetic then I thought.

Murderdolls

Oh geez. 18+ hours? Ok, that's just freakin' nuts. It sounds like it was Ruby Weapon, on crack and Red Bull. Makes me appreciate never getting into that game now.

Salen

Go FF-series! ;)

I remember when I was playing RE1 for 12 hours straight without taking a break (maybe a toilet break or two). I started to feel ill after a certain time...

But really 18 hours!? I would have quit after 6 hours... going back and level up some more.

DarkMasterTonberry

@meenangel: Nah. Two-hours don't refresh. They were able to use them multiple times because the fight does in fact take anywhere from 10-18 hours. Sundi revealed this at the premier site summit.

Torusan

MMOs always involve killing the "unkillable". From Lord British to Everquest to the alliances of Eve.

But for FF XI, a game built on the sole premise of grinding, you'd expect them to take it to the pinnacle.

----

Similar story, way back - [games.slashdot.org]

hahnchen

This is why I will never bother playing an MMO. They're designed to waste your time as much as possible to ensure you can't do everything in the game so you keep paying your monthly subscription.

To be fair though, FFXI is one of the worst offenders when it comes to time wasting. Especially with it's random "popping" of "notorious monsters", which requires the player to hang around for hours for the monster to appear and then some other player might just steal it anyway. Utter crap.

photoboy

wuh? most of my favourite games can be finished in less than 18 hours...

nikolaj

Final Fantasy XI, serious business.

DeathForger

This is actually one of the easier bosses. I've been playing FFXI since it was first released and there are Mobs out there that take 20+ hrs to beat

josh11223

I'm serious though, the first linkshell to ever beat AV got nothing more than a worthless crystal drop.

brigannd

@brigannd: After killing the boss, you will be rewarded with an exclusivity contract for the next Final Fantasy on the console of your choice.

m0re

Reminds me of the boss in FF VII which was either unkillable or just damn tough!

Anyone remember the name (and location) of that boss? I fancy having another go at him!

dcuk7

Oh yea... I in fact have just very recently stopped playing FFXI, and my linkshell is like one fight away from being able to fight the Warden. I've pretty much completed every storyline there was in the game and still have never beaten the hardest NMs.

As for the 18hrs... I'm almost positive there were people switching in and out. Most of the LS's that are able to do these things have enough people spread out over the timezones to do shifts (of course there are those who will stay up for days). There have been a few weekends where I played non-stop for at least 18hrs though, given it was during my normal "awake" time.

cainxavier

@Aye Mak Sicur: That was mostly a bug, your reasoning is arguable and fitting really but given the track record of WoW bosses... They usually come with a ton of bugs for the top end raiders to work out for blizz.

@dv8godd: That was yiazmat, who someone else mentioned earlier. Honestly if you know what you are doing you can kill him in a good 2 to 3 hours. When I went after it I got him in 4 game hours, though it was something like 9 hours in real life as I kept botching some attempts. Quite a fun boss... my only regret is not copying my save file so I could fight him again later as I get the urge to every now and then.

Toasterface[zd]

I have abandoned FF XI long time ago but we used to play like 13-15 hours straight, leveling up our characters. It sounds ridiculous but it was more of a 'friends getting together to chat' and we used to have fun.

Now when I look back at it, what a bloody waste of time. I don't play MMO anymore (Married life won't let you do it anyway).

Snake9677

Dude, I can't even last 5 hrs straight playing a game.
Hardcore!

Angryrider

@Zero1328: This is the sort of thing that gets me all excited when it comes to MMO's... If a developer can create a sense of mystery or intrigue surrounding a piece of in-game content, and by extent the players that conquer it, more power to them. No mater how beautiful or mystical a game is, if everyone can do it, it's just another quest. I'd love to see more intense puzzles in MMO's, maybe not so much this whole... million form madness. But hey, how good would it feel to be cracking impossible puzzles and walking around an MMO with a piece of equipment that says you've done it? And then you go back to your day job, working under beligerant bosses who can't understand your greatness...

Garro

@Zero1328: FFXI HNMs don't work like that.

FFXI End Game Super HNMs require an insane amount of coordination. Lining up Mages to cast the spell at just the right time to link with Melee skills to double, triple, quadruple the spell damage for instance.

Brute force has never once worked on any HNM in FFXI.

Black-Dog-Howls

So much "that's why I don't play MMOs"... It's not like a 18h fight is something normal, far from it. The longest I've had at WoW was Illidan and took 19min, and I honestly doubt a NORMAL MMO would put people to fight a boss for more than 30min.

Something is very wrong with Square and their multi-hour encounters...

Kazama Sogetsu

@KillerDr3w: It was sarcasm. XD

Torusan

@brigannd:
Is that the Bibbly Bernie you can solo at around level 12?

Was you alliance all made up of 18 level 1's?

KillerDr3w

People have fought Absolute Virtue for longer than that.

ThisIsSick

I regret wasting all my life's energy into that game.Thank god I don't play anymore. Thank god I got a live to manage.

cxplorer

From Fascist Fantasy XI I would expect that and more. Everything in that game was a test in inconvenience disguised as being more hardcore. Thank God I quit FFXI when I did. Wasted almost a year of my life. There's a reason why WoW reached millions. I quit WoW long ago yet I don't regret the time I spent there. Other than friends I made in FFXI, I regret ever playing it. :)

Shinryoma

One time me and my alliance took 13 hours to beat the NM Bubbly Bernie, talk about a good ass kicking...

brigannd

@MelodyKitn: Check
I fought some long bosses myself. What was the name of the dude in Sea? That was the 'impossible' boss when I played.

MisterMcThursday

How reminds me of the time I maxed out the toon on Dragon Warrior by killing slimes and wyrvens for a few weeks because I was too dumb to beat the Golem blocking the town. I think it was a couple weeks later I found out I had to play the "Fairy Flute". Good times. Rest of the game was a breeze after that.

Pornosaur

i wonder how long it took to down the sleeper in ever quest

mascot1063

@Ecks: There's no way to know for sure considering that there are a number of other fights with obscenely obscure mechanics (one boss in particular requires you to emote /kneel in order to avoid his 1-hit-kill attack...), but these guys seemed to be doing everything right. Generally it's painfully obvious when there's some mechanic you have to exploit first, because you'll hit an impossible wall; they didn't really hit a wall, they simply got fed up with the bullshit and were tired of putting themselves physically at risk over a game.

And for anyone else commenting it, not much shift trading to be had here, they had to have an army just to deal with the boss because he spawns 8 little helpers every time he changes forms, and they have to be dispatched before the boss can be dealt with.

Norellicus

I hereby declare Pandemonium Warden as the final boss of the internet!!

harshalizee

[ ] Check here if you've survived playing FFXI and managed to hold onto some shred of sanity.

*barely manages to tick the box*

I'm like Shin on that I don't regret the friends I made, some of the memories, but I do regret the copious amounts of time that game took away from me that revolved simply around traveling and waiting for parties. Then add the frustration of lost xp and either groups that expected you to have everything or groups that were barely equipped and you had just a lot of limbo moments.

MelodyKitn

@Aye Mak Sicur: That's pretty much what's happening here, except that it respawns instantly in a different form.

My theory is that SquareEnix overshot their initial expectations for this boss. The etymology of Pandemonium Warden indicates that it houses all of the game's big bosses (pan-demon)--which is mostly confirmed by the visual appearance of its various forms--but I doubt they really considered how long it would take to kill all of those freakin' SOBs.

The Seaward (nee Tocchets Bookie)

@Toasterface[zd]: The guide I grabbed said like 20 hours or so. I didn't even bother after reading the number, so I wouldn't know for sure.

It's one thing to try to discover a way around just merciless grinding through "finding the trick"... that's respectable. But when the official guide says it's going to be 20 hours of tedium... i'm just going to not even bother.

That said: I can't say I'd be all that interested in Yiazmat even at 3 hours, though. Not in a single player game, anyway.

I don't mind challenging bosses... but they should be challenging to my wits and skill... not my physical fortitude beyond a certain point.

Bosses that take wits to find their weakness: good.

Bosses that take fortitude even after finding their weakness: kills the buzz of being smart.

Bosses that take just pure fortitude: lazy game design.

dv8godd

Why the hell would you play till you pass out? Don't they know about those dudes who died from to much Star Craft...

I'm about as hardcore as they come and I have played for over 10 hours straight, but if I ever do a marathon like that, I'm not just doing it because some boss is SUPER OPed. C'mon guys, use your heads.

Also, theres no point in playing anymore when your tired and dizzy, your skill decreases in whatever your doing, and your not even having fun.

Suda51

Wow. Thats just wow, 18 hours, and they had to give up? I couldn't do it, i could not fight a boss for that long.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

@Mr.Sad: Because humans need sleep?

Or they finally all died and are spinning the story...

Or, they had that attitude at the 15th hour but at the 18th realized holy shit this is never going to end he's not taking damage, we're done.

karasu is my homeboy

18 hours on a boss? What are they trying to do, have in-game bosses replace those of real life?! Crazy!

Seriously though, an individual boss gets an hour...maybe an hour and a half at the absolute most. Anything over that and it's game over. I couldn't imagine spending hours on the same boss.

BigDragon

Saying someone gave up after 18 hours isn't saying a lot. Plenty of guilds in WoW take weeks, sometimes months to progress through, or clear endgame instances. Sure it's 3-5 hour chunks at a time, but equally lame. These bosses in FFXI were clearly designed to not be beaten by sane means as a way to keep the obsessive players busy without having to do a whole lot of actual dev work in the process.

dokiwaku

18 hours!!! my god! that is just dumb. i figured that FFXI was a little too anal about growth thats why i stopped playing about a month through but an 18 hour boss assures me that i will not be rekindling that flame. leveling in that game was just stupid. anyway, i'm tired of mmo's forcing you to have to form parties. what happened to me being able to control the fate of my character. what if i don't want my character to be friendly. i should be able to go off by myself and develop this incredibly strong character. if i want a nomadic, anti-social, out-casted, uber-strong, vagabond a$$hole i should be able to do that.

INDIGOVENOM

@MisterMcThursday: Absolute Virtue?
I never even unlocked sky. But the storyline of CoP from what I saw was epic.

Plus of FFXI: Friends you make on there and satisfaction of beating some of the challenges, where in WoW your ennemies of the same level are weaker then you (even elite ones), in FFXI, they can be stronger then you when their level are lower (depends on your class though).

Minus: TIMESINK.

Kyolux

what the hell is wrong with people? i would have shut the game off after about 60 minutes.

zomgYGGR

@beat89: I'm not too surprised... all the single-player FFs have had one or two insanely powerful bosses that only the most OCD completionist players ever beat (ie Ruby and Emerald weaspon). They exist only to be the most intensely difficult boss battles ever.

catapult37

I don't necessarily think this is a bug, though... when there's a bug, SE fixes it within a couple days. People have called GMs to complain about how ridiculous this kill is, with no real response from SE at all.

In my experience SE never directly nerfs mobs (except Besieged)... they just change outside variables. Fafnir too hard to kill? We'll raise the level cap. Airship battle freaking impossible? Now you won't lose exp when you spend 2 straight weeks trying to get lucky. I don't see this fight getting any easier.

TL;DR: If this was a bug, they'd have fixed it by now.

The Seaward (nee Tocchets Bookie)

@lonesn1per: King Behemoth? 8-9 hours? Maybe when the level cap was 50.

Now unless RMT get the claim, it's a 15-25 minute fight, tops.

The Seaward (nee Tocchets Bookie)

I've never enjoyed end game with my SAM because my job is always killing the adds.

RYAMATSU

God, read some of the comments from that link..."If you can't handle it, don't do it!"...fair enough, but I would consider myself insane having spent 18 FUCKING HOURS fighting anything in a video game...No boss...ever...should take more than two hours...tops. Enough of that elitist bullshit...spending 18 hours infront of a screen fighting the same damn thing is not healthy...as clearly demonstrated...

Get outside and see the sun folks...jeebus. No wonder people think gamers are morons...

DCSimian

@Day Man: I lol'd.

Kyolux

here i thought king behemoth was the longest fight i think i last heard it lasting 8-9 hours but 18 on pw? holy crap i cant even stand camping LEAPING LIZZY for a few hours and never getting the pull, but this? it better be worth it! i mean the drops better hook you up for life, im talking about a 1976 chocobo with 24inch rims and mog house mansion and like an army of your very own npc's. and 2 of your very own security guards named chuck norris and bruce willis to pull any aggro! and a white mage named Alison Carroll hehehe cure me all you want baby! ok im done....

lonesn1per

Eighteen hours is a trifle. It takes forty-one hours to beat The Final Boss of the Internet.

Day Man

This is why I don't play MMOs. Not simply because bosses like this exist, but because I'm not going to waste my time in a virtual world populated by crazy people who will waste eighteen hours attacking ONE FUCKING MOB.

James in Dupont

@INDIGOVENOM: There tons of MMOs that let you do that and they're boring. Also, there's plenty single player games for that. Anyway, FFXI has plenty of solo classes or classes that can solo. Beastmaster, Black Mage and loldragoon are classes that can level up solo with very different playstyle. Red Mage and Ninja are two others that can solo big monsters alone.

@dokiwaku: FFXI already TONS of content. Most people don't even get through more then 20-30% of it.

Kyolux

18 hours??
Are all of you telling me that you have never played for 18 hours any game?
Age of Empires? the first time I played it I spend the entire day since morning to night because it was addictive, and FFX, the second time I played it finish it in two segments of about 20 hours.
Well those days were very different maybe I can't do it noe because I'll fall asleep bored, but sure there are people who can.
Maybe it's much, but it's common, and I don't see what people here are surprised about.
I have friends now that play Wow and tell me that they just get home from work and start playing 'till mid night I'd like to play something like this but I think I'm late to play Wow with them now.

Xacur

@muu:
From what some have said on that site. Those people were far from noobs. They all had relics and best setup they could for their classes.

The problem is really with the NM they didn't knew would last this long.

Kyolux

This story is great. By drawing attention to it, this might actually get SE to change not only Pandemonium Warden but also Absolute Virtue. It is technically possible that the players are just doing it wrong as Pandemonium Warden was recently introduced but I highly doubt it.

cinderx

That boss better drop some sick loot.

mfwahwah

I knew I quit that game in beta for a reason.

evslin

Don't know the specifics of the ZNMs, but if it's not an alliance-limited fight and they're trying to do so w/o switching over (you can only have 18 people on an alliance claiming a monster, but it's composed of 3 parties of 6, any of which can exchange members, and the non-main alliance PT can disband entirely and be exchanged), their whole argument is a moot point -- they tried too hard to try and defeat something with a force that wasn't enough to overcome the foe. Sorta like, back before they introduced the hyper HNM system (the main land HNMs go into hypermode that'll pretty much kill anyone instantly after an hour or so), you could go and kill fafnir with 5 or 6 shitty players taking it slow and steady.

@DCSimian: Don't know how it's said in the US version, but there is a character, Maat, who has this famous quote: "If you don't want to do it, you can always quit." If they think it's a design oversight, they can always give up and there'll be another group that'll attempt and possibly reap the rewards.

On that note, I wonder if there's a strategy for beating AV yet. That whole 'hint' movie that came out this spring was a complete joke, lol.

muu

Back in my FFXI days (lovingly called my crack head days) we would run hours for some of the bosses in Sky. Not too mention the once every 8 hr Gods that dropped components that you needed to pop Kirin which was the big fucker.
Stuff only got more complicated in Sea when you start popping people like AV and...I'm sad I still remember this stuff.
Someone said earlier this guy is new so they just might not know how to beat him yet, but hours on hours to beat one boss? Yeah I could totally see that from my experience

Chuco

it's ridiculous to condemn FFXI for this. First, like the boss Absolute Virtue and like many other bosses in the game, there are specific strategies needed to end the fight victorious. I'm guessing this Linkshell took what little information is out there about this beast (there isn't much) and went after it, probably using the same rotation tactics used against other superbosses. Evidently it doesn't work.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN THIS BOSS TAKES 18+ HOURS TO DEFEAT.

Hiroken

The battle to defeat him is long and brutal. The fight between guild members for the single sword they get from the deal is even worse.

Quilt

I *love* this game...

half-beast

Well, the one thing non-FFXI players may not know is that Pandemonium Warden is part of a recently rolled out boss monster system in an effort to address complaints about timed boss monsters (specifically those who only show up once a day and carry the best weapon and armor for many jobs).

It just rolled out in June and there are still lots of bugs and weird things about it. A friend of mine was having similar issue with another ZNM (which is what the mobs in this system are called). This is probably

Absolute Virtue is another mob that S-E has kinda been buggy with, but has not addressed since it is in a location that (sadly and actually something that can be blamed on the FFXI designers) the majority or people do not have access to and requires a fair amount of people to just have the right pop conditions.

So this is really more an issue with buggy implementation and people who couldn't take no for an answer than an argument that FFXI is a sometimes overly obtuse, person dependent, difficult MMORPG (which it is, but for completely different reasons).

highoffpixels

@CHunterX: pretty much the same reason I quit FFXI, if they had better support for players that like to solo I would probably still be playing. I didn't mind getting into parties or getting into a group with the same linkshell but the wait simply killed any fun there was.

lilaliendog

I play FFXI end game...and all bosses are hard when they're first attempted.

The fact that it was taking them that long is just because they were not doing it the way it was supposed to be done.

Any boss can take you forever if you're sucking it up. They'll figure it out next time, and take it out in an hour or so.

I remember Kirin fights taking forever in the beginning. Now it can be zerged in a few minutes...

x3r0

What will happen is no one will be able to figure out how to beat it. Squenix will get tons of complaints. They will release a ridiculously vague video with the developers using outdated gear supposedly showing how to beat it. There will be no concept of time in the video and players will seem to use abilities they shouldn't be able to. Thanks in advance Squenix!

mablung

@functioningbadly: He says he can't do this anymore anyway, what's the point of saying "you need to get a..." now?

Kyolux

@Xacur:

You need to get a life man, or a girlfriend.

functioningbadly

@Xacur: I have NEVER, ever played 18 hours straight. I don't know anyone who has come even CLOSE.

Common my ass...you need real help if you think this is a common thing.

Did you NOT see that South Park episode?

Spoony Bard

I, too, am glad I never got that deep into that game. It was fun for the time but the lag and loading really turned me off. However, a new MMO on the PS3 that I could casually pick up and play would definitely be something I'd be interested in!

fquick

I've read that with benediction those type of bosses can repeatedly heal themselves, and only in few occasions (and for unknown reasons) they stop, so that they coul be killed... still, it's something too hardcore for my likes...

destrosio

Three years from now the FFXI dev team will lower themselves to give us a vague and useless movie with some hint in it on how to kill this.

If there's anybody left playing by that point, and they manage to figure out just what that oh-so-cleverly hidden hint is, and manage to kill this..

It will drop nothing. Or maybe just a crystal, showing the Dev Team's true disdain and contempt for the players. No other MMO has had such sadistic and rude development and support staff.

Ted-R

Wow, seems completely unnecessary to me. Boss fights are supposed to be a challenge, but there's a fine line between challenging and mind-numbing.

DashShiron

@meenangel: That wasn't the secret. It's whenever AV 2hr'd, you had to lean forward and look closely at your chat log.

SimpleMinded

@SAKY: ZNMs like Pandemonium Warden were added in an update last June or so. Just about every other year there's a new 'top boss'. Kirin, Bahamut, AV, Odin, PW.

And it only took 18 hours because probably no one has done it before, so they didn't know what to expect. That and they must have wiped a handful of times. Recovering from a full wipe can take 30-45 min, depending on how many people want to eat Raise 1's.

SimpleMinded

This article made me laugh. When downing a boss takes more than 18 hours it's just ridiculous, get real. That can not be intended (I hope!)

This MMO madness has to stop.
Now, if you excuse me, I'm gonna alt tab back to WoW now.

SensAzn

A boss that takes 18 hours to beat? Sounds like Yiazmat from FFXII. And seeing how FFXII is just FFXI offline, I'm not surprised. Except at least in XII you could leave the game to run itself during that boss fight :p

What are games coming to these days, indeed.

Akisazame

@Black-Dog-Howls: You never fought King Vinegarroon then, have you? Zerging him's the only way to kill him. And any of the animated weapons in Dynamis for Relic weapons. You have to zerg them, because they zerg you :o

x3r0

@mphz:

well in my case yiazmat it took me a week

good thing that i can resume later.

eilegz

Good thing I stopped playing that game. ><

phalanges

I spent five years in FFXI and attending all their fan conventions. The memories were fun, but I have already moved on mostly because of school. It is amusing how bitter most retired vets of the game on here are. The steep grind and players who took the game too seriously treating it like a demanding responsibility are what I don't miss about it or the MMO culture in general. I'm waiting around to give SE a chance with their new MMO and if its too similar - I'm done.

TC

Wow, 18 hours?
Add a griefer to the equation and someone is sure to get killed.

KilOMisFit

@MelodyKitn: Check. I don't regret the time I spent, but I'm glad I got out when I did, before it got too much.

It's a shame. FFXI would be probably my favorite MMO if only it was remotely friendly. But the investment/reward ratio is just not good enough for me. So I never got very far in it, even though I like the design a lot.

Mister Adequate

no trash respawns?

huginn

In FFXII, Yiazmat took me about just as long to beat on my first try so I can understand their pain.

Buttah

Yeah, this just reinforces my earlier opinion of "Fuck Final Fantasy".

man in gauze is king ramses II, silly.

I think it's a bit unprofessional to post this as if Square-Enix made a boss that takes 20 hours to beat, when in reality those fighting it just didn't hadn't figured out the strategy to defeat it correctly; that's how these high-end bosses in MMO's work.

UltimatePancakeSensation

I don't have my old copies of PC Gamer on me so I can't provide any scans but this reminds me of the dragon in Everquest who was designed to be unbeatable...or so the devs thought.
Then three warring guilds put down their differences and took on the dragon in an epic, multi-day battle, switching out players as they became too exhausted to continue playing and they finally killed him.
So that seems pretty tame :p

Mattz

lmao, love the warning message.

Akmed

About how WoW raiding can eat up weeks to months of playtime, except "in 3-5 hour chunks", I'd say that's a MUCH better design of gameplay. Most instances/bosses in WoW are designed so that learning them takes time and dedication, but once everyone has got their part down properly, any raid can be finished well within an evening, snack breaks included.

If you can't figure out a boss, you'll know because you'll all be DEAD within a few minutes; You won't find yourselves pointlessly pummeling it for 18 hours without knowing whether it's going down anytime soon or if you're just screwing yourselves over.

You can say anything about dedication or whatever, but SE should think up a better way for letting people progress on endgame contents.

Kyuu

Yeah, like others have said they're just doing it wrong and nobody has figured out how to actually beat it yet. So pretty much they spent 18 hours banging their head up against the boss hoping that brute force would win the day. Guess it failed.

weasl

Good lord, 18 hours to defeat a boss?

Square-Enix is mad, i hope to god that they were doing it wrong, or he had some sort of weakness they weren't aware of, 18 hours is way to long for a boss.

FISSURE

You know, whether it's a level issue, or a strategy issue or whatever, they must have thought they were making progress on it (20 forms? That's madness!)

So the fact remains that Square made a boss that could quite concievably kill real players. Just think of the marathon players in Korean cafes; a monster like this requires that kind of devotion, when several have already died of dehydration and heart attacks doing long game sessions.

fuchikoma

@AlbenoEpiX: Only a marathon doesn't see the participants pissing and shitting into bottles and buckets, hence my lack of respect for such practises.

Fordio

Half of these comments make me want to pound my head into a wall.

The fight is NOT supposed to be 18+ hours. I blame Pet Food Alpha for this misconception, their reporting is targeted to FFXI players, and assumes it's readers are very familiar with the game.

The group spent 18+ hours attempting to find the method of defeating the boss, and then called it quits after no success. The news is part reporting the groups herculean attempt in trying to solve the boss, and part using the results to get S-E to do something about it.

Pandemonium Warden is either has a ridiculously obscure requirement to defeating it, is bugged, or, is simply not meant to be defeated yet. Once it is fixed or the secret is found, it should become a standard boss fight.

When that will happen however, who knows. S-E is VERY VERY poor at responding to player feedback involving FFXI. It too damn often takes news reports like this to even get S-E moving on something.

Cantih

don't know about mmos, but the longest i spent in a battle was about 40 minutes. i'm pretty sure i wouldn't do it for 18 hrs.

s0njas0n

That's Insane. A boss fight, in my opinion, shouldn't last for more that an hour. But 18 hours ?!? I can't imagine that Square expects that boss fight to be reasonable or beatable.

Zirnon

Clearly they weren't using enough BSTS...

Lobescoper

Just like Absolute Virtue, I'm sure there's some hidden way to make Pandemonium Warden much easier that no one is thinking of. It's a little disturbing that most of the strategies are so straight forward on bosses. SE tries to get us to think and our answer is to try and burn it.

linoth

do a barrel roll!

Tails437

That is fucking hilarious. They kept playing until they puked and fell over. I would love - LOVE - to see some of these people. I seriously cannot concoct a stereotype. Cheeto dust and mom's Hot Pockets don't cut it this time.

On the other hand; 18 hours isn't THAT long. That's how long I must be awake most weekdays. Anyone here could stay awake and alert that length of time. I can only assume playing a tense videogame the entire duration is what makes you puke and pass out. I don't know; I've never done it.

Cultivar

God -_- Pandemonium Warden is so broken. He's like the new Absolute Virtue. I really hope SE changes him because its getting ridiculous. The drops *cannot* be worth it. Hell, at least we know what Absolute Virtue drops!

Albireo-XIII

18 hours seems excessive , I played this game though i do not recall this boss but me thinks that something is very wrong here. Either a game glitch , player incompetence of some sorts (EX. can not kill boss unless you have item X.) ( lots of that in mmos ) either way anything more than an hour for one fight is to long. I am surprised the guild stuck around for the fight though but then again when it comes to gamers and obsessive behavior stranger things have been done lol.

kendrix

Have you seen the comments on the actual article? They've actually got a pretty good discussion going on over there.

wordzworth

How could they stand sitting in front of a screen for 18 hours?! It's not even a fun enough game to play for 2 hours! I will never understand MMO's or the nutjobs who play them.

Placentasaurus

@muu: i remember hypermode, if we lost claim we would sit there and pray what we called it SSJ.
yes i know it sounds lame but dammit was it funny when the rmters and the noob ls's were getting one shotted.
oh well i dont play anymore, i quit when i realized in would never get to Sea because of SE's bullshit design for CoP.

MINIBOSS

It's 18 hours because they don't know how to kill it. It's one of the two bosses that no one knows how to kill it yet like AV. But AV, whenever his tactics is figured, he only takes 40 minutes to kill with a "PROPER" 18man (1 alliance) group. AV was killable at one point until they made him not get stuck. They didn't change anything else on him so his HP and resist rate would be the same.

djricekcn

MMO? MMnO!

DARTH_TIGRIS

@Kyolux...

The same thing can happen in WoW. Playing a low level warrior makes it very hard to tank mobs of 2 or more low level creatures. And even then, you cannot usually solo elites at your level without a group with you.

Jackal239

No one forced them to fight it. Besides, I'm also sure theres plenty of ways to beat it and to not beat it. Perhaps they were stuck with strategies that didn't hurt it enough. Everyone thought AV was impossible for awhile, but now he's been killed many times in fights lasting 1~3 hours.

ChocoCocobo

Maybe the guild wasn't strong enough. Who knows, if they were too low of a level, some of their hits might have been doing next to zero damage.

Xsid

@dv8godd: the option bosses in FFX were hard as hell a few of em i gave up trying to kill after a hour now i wish i would have kept going to the end

FP Bleentastic has cake

I wish I still played FFXI, but I had to quit to keep my sanity. This article points to the best part of FFXI- it constantly challenges you...unfortunately SE never learned the difference between challenge and torture. I remember when Fafhogg and KB were challenging (and possible to claim without a bot), and when my LS finally took down a wyrm...but after working my ass off to get Sea before they made it easy, then finally getting to go after the NMs and finding out that pop items weren't 100%...I just wanted to kill people. When it takes months to get pop items for a NM that is impossible to kill...well, that's when I finally quit. Still loved the storylines though...

tallguy

I'm not surprised, though for 18 hrs, it's obvious they're doing something wrong or missing something essential. I'm still playing FFXI after 6 years, though not extensively as I used to (cough).. I've dropped mostly all endgame and I only log in for my ls'(/guild) regular event run that happens twice a week nowadays.

If you have played far enough into the game, you'd find that even though it's a massive time waster, it feels it was all really rewarding (e.g. sea access - CoP especially was fun). Sometimes that instant gratification just doesn't cut it.

Though, I'd like to give props to the ls that attempted this and got headlined.

sayoko

I'm in the mood to share horror stories. Nothing of mine quite tops this because I'm not insane, but I have a habit of attempting challenges in games before its really advisable due to a dislike for level grinding. That meant 2 hours in FFX-2 on Angra Mainyu, 4 hours in one sitting on Yiazmat in FFXII (down to 20% but really cba to finish), and once I spent 6 hours in Stratholme Undead side going through multiple group changes just in front of the Baron, only for him to not drop whatever it was I wanted. And this was back when it was a 10 man dungeon.

Ah, memories.

Ladi

Maybe they didn't level-up enough? I always played Final Fantasy games with no grinding whatsoever, and then bosses would take an hour to beat! In FFVIII, it took me 3.5 hours to beat Edea (right after the two gardens started fighting). The next time I played it, I loved the grinding - and sacked her for a minute or two.

somarix

It's not a "guild", it's called a linkshell. Get it right Luke. :P

Nogib

I'm absolutely loving the comments of "Thank God I quite FFXI"

This is officially Kotaku Rehab.

But seriously, why would a developer make the boss so damn tough to take down? The disclaimer sometimes looks silly to players because they play 1-3 hours per day, but 18!??!?

Are you trying to fry my damn brain, SE?

madmangoliath

@FP Bleentastic has cake: I was so high level by the time I finished the game, after killing a number few optional bosses, that the "real" ending itself seemed quite pathetic.

The word challenge never entered into the last battle at all.

Kinda ruined a bit of the climax. I wouldn't regret too much, honestly.

dv8godd

While this boss and Absolute Virtue are ridiculous, it just goes to show you. FFXI Endgame = Hardcore and WoW Endgame = full of wannabes with short attention spans who are loud and bitch about everything.

Eyebrows

HAHAHA GO BTL! I used to play play on BTL's Server Seraph. The leader Muteki has the craziest fucking weaponery in all of FFXI. Shit that would take a normal person years to achieve. Anyway...I remember when they took on the Dragon Vrtra which took them 8 Hours to kill...It was fucking nuts...

Elemence

MOAR 18+ HR Boss encounters!!

Sorshha

This is par for the course for FFXI. A single mission can take 3-5 hours since you have to log into several mules to get level capped gears, go to the AH, wait for latecomers, discuss strategy, reraise when someone dies, rest for MP, etc... I mean, I really liked the game, but after several years of playing, I could not keep up with the time commitments.

berribrand

Strangely they are the nicest people too...

Elemence

@DaveKap:

I played FFXI for 5 years. I played on the same server BTL is on which is Seraph, BTL does not have in any way weaklings. To get into BTL you have to be insanely good and equipped. I watched them take down Vrtra when it was introduced in the Vanadiel and it took them 8 hours. For 2 months any Linkshell that had tried had failed. Same with the Jailer in Promathia...BTL is the best Linkshell in all of FFXI hands down...I truly think they are machines in a way...

Elemence

I'm betting on an exaggerated story. They probably started fighting the boss and took 1 or 2 hour breaks when it wiped them all out. Total playtime was probably closer to 3 hours and even then the guild was probably full of weaklings who didn't have any strategy.

I find it hard to believe they actually fought the thing for 18 hours straight. Even I know I've exaggerated stories similar to this to describe my playtime of some section of a game.

DaveKap

My girlfriend got into FFXI and it was kind of my fault. Biggest mistake ever. She's always had an addictive personality, and anything FF is like crack to her. So an FF MMO.. *facepalm*

CockneyKaiser

Possibly doing it wrong?. There must be another trigger to take a chunk at a time. Then again, I quit when I got the leaping lizard and burnt myself out.

PsycheE

Boss fights: the harder the better IMO. FFXI devs should be applauded for this. It's the players fault they worked 18 hours at it. Bosses like these are meant to take weeks or months to figure out and beat. You log in with your guild, go at it for a couple hours, then fine something else to do.

Dalren

This is why MMO's need to die. 1 hour to beat one boss is still more than enough, especially when you're as strong as you're going to get.

Frologic

@Ted-R: Completely, absolutely agree. The game has the potential to be a great game, even with the combat system as it is. It's simply the fact that the developers and support staff seem to have this sort of god complex going on where they feel like helping their playerbase is a nuissance rather than a way to keep them paying money. It's one of the things that drove me away from the game, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

SilentSeraphin

There was just an article about chain smoking and MMOs.

THIS IS WHY

cornunderscore2x

Someone mentioned emerald and ruby weapon taking hours to kill, just like this 18 hour boss....

You're doing it wrong.

emerald weapon is killable in 12 mins: use quadra and mime with a maxed magic, also have final attack and phoenix for that death laser thing he does.

ruby in about 8: kill off all your party except one before you start the fight.
when ruby does that sand trap thing, it cant remove anyone from the battle, then you rez your dead and kill. attacks that register as 1 damage are actually doing alot more.

They need to adjust their strategy, or play a different game,....srsly 18 hours?

Go outside ffs....irl > loot

JoshReflek

shinobu on No More Heroes (bitter) took me forever. But when boss battles are inordinately long after an equally long ass campaign leading up to it, I usually stop for a few months and finish it later.

18hours can eat a dick. You can't push pause in MMO's can you? Whoever beats it better find a way to do it in less than 18hours or I don't know if I can give up the props.

flandria

Maybe they make you a GM for beating him.

Furude

Has anyone actually beaten the boss?

Alondite

This anti-MMO bullcrap I'm reading here is pretty retarded on a site that's supposed to be for "obsessive gamers". Get over yourselves.

Dalren

Uh, yeah, 18+ hours on a single opponent is just going overboard. Hell, I think more than one hour fighting a single opponent is a bit much, but that's just me.

I think something that game developers are starting to forget is that length alone and difficulty alone do not a good game make. Sometimes you've gotta balance it out with segments that are challenging in other ways (like forcing you to figure out an enemy's weakness rather than just engaging in an hour-long battle of attrition), or that are short but sweet (5 minutes of fast-paced hard-hitting action rather than 30 minutes of both combatants just standing there smacking each other).

GhostWhoWalks

I am not usually this harsh on people, but there is something wrong with you if youre overly indulgent in anything. the wii the ps3. the 360.

However, 18 hours of beating one boss? tht is not only beyond ridiculous. That is bordering on criminal. To imagine people paying for this. Pay me, ill stick needles in you.

MadonnaProject

I wonder if Square-Enix actually went that far, or if their is some secret that the players haven't figured out.

Xemnas