A coffee table Zelda art book would be awesome though. One day, when I have a coffee table, I'll need one.

MajorMcMuffin

I own "The Simpsons Philosophy" and I'm guessing it's the same concept. The book is mad serious though, and very educational/thought provokingly interesting.

mikeevd

@jvv213: Really? You consider me as an asshole not knowing it's a "slang?" I dunno, but you people really need to get to reality on saying words property.

These internet slangs nowaday are getting out of hands.

Sigh...

Shachihoko

@AlbenoEpiX: The lack of enthusiasm comes from us playing games to enjoy them, not write philosophy papers...if your thinking this critical while playing a game, something is wrong because your not occupied enough buy having fun.

Suda51

@Suda51: Good point. Although I could always choose to turn off the game and throw the disc in the microwave, rejecting both artist and avatar, leaving me free to seek out new artists to follow and a new avatar to assume the identity of, and forge an entirely different path without sacrificing advancement.

(Yeah, I know I just compared agnosticism and gaming. Yes, it was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. :p)

ShaggE

I'd rather buy that Concept Art book you predicted would someday be released. =/ I'm not as big a fan of philosophy that I was when I was 17.

Megan Fox Iz Hot! ^-^ - ph15h

Ooh! I'm intrigued!

flashadams

marcus aurelius eat your (3) heart(s) out.

that wasn't funny.

reading too far into videogames is weird.

kyle

This actually sounds fairly interesting. I can't really understand the lack of enthusiasm. This book is something that Maggie Greene would be appreciative of.

A bit of research has shown that the author actually has a masters in philosophy and is currently studying to become a uni professor...

[www.neo-philosophy.com] (Author's home page)

AlbenoEpiX

@jvv213: Found your way out of GameFAQS, I see. Sadly, these are not the lulz you are looking for. Buh-bye now.

ShaggE

Holy Shit!!!
This is a must buy for me.
I even pulled out my credit card the moment I saw the article.
But I have to wait till November. ='(

hk458

@ShaggE: It's not your will, its the artist will, because in the end the game is still telling you what to do isn't it, and if you don't do it, you don't advance ;)

Suda51

When people start looking into the science of Zelda there taking video games the wrong way. Zelda is art but c'mon the philosophy of it? Art is meant to be appreciated taken in and enjoyed, when people get to much into it they just kill it, not to mention look like idiots in the process.

Suda51

@Ping5000: Eh, I disagree. Being an avatar for the player, there's no question that it's the player's will.

Now, if you take that question and switch "Link" with "people", and "gamers" with "other people", (plus the obvious changes for grammatical purposes), then you have an interesting question.

But yeah, this book just sounds cheesy.

ShaggE

@Shachihoko:

Its a meme on 4chan.

Kaljin

@Shachihoko: god you fuckin asshole its a fuckin slang term jesus what the fuck is wrong with you nerds these days!

jvv213

Can we just put these on the bookshelf next to the "science of.." books and ignore them totally.
Oops, with the exception of the science of discworld books which actually have he advantage of being written not just by Pratchett but two actual scientists and are pretty good.
Their place can be taken by Bill Brysons book. Eww.

Weirdwolf

@AxelMinami: Mah boi...? Are you just say that to get to get some attention? Most pointless post ever..

What is up with this "disemvowelment" going on around here lately. Have I been missing so much on Kotaku over the weekends??

Shachihoko

"Does Link have a will, or do gamers project their wills onto him?"

At the risk of sounding like a pretentious douchebag: That's a pretty cool philosophical question.

Ping5000

It is a genuine truth that the worst books ever released are all those that fit into the "The philosophy of [movie/tv show]". I think they might have to invent a new category of bad for this one, though.

Spoiler Duck

I've seen these philosophy books around, they're actually pretty interesting. I picked up The Matrix and Philosophy back in the day.

icegoat

I'm a big fan of any society where skeletons rise from the ground at night time unless I'm wearing bunny ears.

That's the kind of place I want to live.

Meldy

hmmmm.... I'd rather get a really nice concept arts from all of the Zelda series in one book, over on...uh..... Philosophy.... Sound like a dull reading.

Shachihoko

MH B

AxelMinami

REAAAAAAAAAAAFEEEGGGGG THROMOTHERFROCKING EFEMITNATION MASTERBATATORY JUNKSLUTS!

i really really hate crap like this. i went to an arts academy for my high school years and the biggest pieces of bull S#!T were philosophers.

"Is Zelda art?"

MY RAGE KNOWS NO BOUNDS!

caster

@Suda51:

Oh but they did a book like this for Homer Simpson as well. It was at least funny.

postulio71

I used to practice zen buddhism, and I can tell this is a complete sham. Zelda is a child's puzzle game with some action. Link is not always the same person and the world itself never the same either.

The puzzles are meant to be figured out an not open to interpretation. Now if one of the quests were "Knock on the sky and listen to the sound." If Link had to define the sound of one hand clapping, then this book may have something to explore. But then the game would end quickly for many people.

Next thing you know it will be the "Tao of Mario" and the "Tae of Luigi"

They want a world to ponder, how about Nosgoth from Legacy of Kain. The whole destiny/time stream cross over having a purpose without purpose. Who really had a grasp on reality.

To think this Zelda book could sit in the same section as "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" make my blood run cold.

postulio71

@AlbenoEpiX:

+ Watch video

When learning and playing music, I have to study theory, I have to learn scales, I have to do a bunch of tedious crap. When I play my music, I don't want it to be seen as a bunch of scales, arpeggios, and legato, I want it to be seen simply as music. When people try to decipher the "feeling" in my music, there missing the purpose of it, which was just to give you good music for you to enjoy. Yes, complicated thoughts went into the process of making my music. Yes, I feel various emotions for different things I write. But if people are to busy trying to figure out if this song sounds sad because my puppy just died, or if I was questioning a God or not, they are missing the point of music, which is to simply be music for people to enjoy.

But yes, I don't speak for you, your free tothink whatever you want, my opinion on things isn't law.

Suda51

Seems interesting... I have a feeling there's not a single picture or piece of artwork in that book though.

MrMister

I guess it's better than Family Guy and Philosophy.

TheMysteriousStranger

@Suda51:

Who are you to define what people find fun? Just because gaming is an intellectually disconnected activity for you doesn't mean that it has to be for me.

The fact that people are writing philosophical books based on video-games signifies the growth and increasing maturity of the medium, which I think is an exciting thing.

And this isn't about writing philosophy papers, it's about reading somebody elses interpretation of the gaming experience, thereby furthering your own understanding - which I consider to be fun, as a greater understanding of the game you are playing enriches your experience.

"Art is meant to be appreciated taken in and enjoyed, when people get to much into it they just kill it, not to mention look like idiots in the process."

You know, I doubt that any accomplished video game developer would agree with you, let alone virtuosic musicians and other great artists. This is because that it's through a deep understanding of their medium that these artists are able to create products that bring us such a great level of enjoyment.

AlbenoEpiX

@hk458: *philosophical

hk458

@MajorMcMuffin: I'm sure Amazon could bundle the two in a table+book deal.

Luke Plunkett

@VengefulRonin:
Oh the time line.
But wouldn't the time line be a major philosophic study about the very nature of time? Of our concept of destiny?
Or perhaps about an endless cycle of rebirth in the constant battle between what we consider good vs evil?

hk458

I'd be more interested in seeing the official timeline of the Zelda series than a bunch of psuedo-philosophical bullshit.

VengefulRonin

@AxelMinami: @jvv213: We should have a disemvowlment game at the end of every week, taking some of the hardest disemvowled komments (oh yeah I said komments with a k!) and trying to guess what they said. Just a thought...

Suda51

@Shachihoko: Some people are too damn serious...

AxelMinami

What an elitist comment to this book you made with writing this post.

Jet Set

@icegoat: aw man, matrix had tons of philosophy essays on their site, some good ones.

as a grad, ill likely grab it offa half.com one day. shit, ive got the d'oh of homer and such already.

@caster: haha, thanks man. youre most often right though.

@postulio71: me, ill read at least a bit of it before calling it a sham.

TheIrishNinja

@postulio71: If they made a book like this for teh lulz or something then more power to them, I'm all for funny.

Suda51

Although philosophy isnt really my thing, I think this might have to find its way into my research paper next semester. Anything is better than writing about St. Augustine...

Mamagooooo!

This is one of those things where I look at it and think "Done RIGHT it could be a neat Read" but at the same time it has the potential to just be a dumb money-making Idea.
Leaning towards the Later, but if I see it in a Barnes and Noble I might pick it up to give it a look.

DemonRin

Yeah well, just another attempt to suck money from rabid fans, I expect..

Change the words from "Zelda" to "FF VII" then you'll have a bestseller..

m0re

How is the world ever going to take our hobby more seriously if tripe like this comes out?

Jody-Per-Ardua-Surgo

@Furious_Liver: *sigh* Thats the problem with society today. We have come to a point where our lives are so boring we have nothing to do but complain...I think for society we evolve any further we need not become more complicated and do so much critical thinking, but rather, simplify ourselves.

Suda51

@postulio71: Hah, coincidentally I just found that book lying around in the public laundromat downstairs. It just found a new home. The Simpsons and Philosophy; Irwin, Conard, Skoble. I found it to be quite strange, but I can see how pondering one's existence and/or purpose for several thousand years can get a tad boring...or depressing.

@Suda51: Like all art (or better yet, all things in life), the purpose of it is merely what you make of it. If video games were all merely about having mindless fun, the medium wouldn't ever evolve and would have zero chance of ever receiving respect from modern society. If they were merely to provoke critical thought and debate, then people would have to look elsewhere for some mindless fun. Thankfully we don't have to worry about this, as no two games are alike. Except for the Dynasty Warriors series. Zing.

Furious_Liver

I bet I learned stuff in history of philosophy that are leagues worst then this

GodKiller1

@AxelMinami: @jvv213:
the more I see these the more I feel compelled to dedicate my time to deciphering their original saying and post it for all to see. Curse you Kotaku, how dare you censor my internet!

On topic now, A book, an OFFICIAL book, that documents the OFFICIAL time line of the OFFICIAL Zelda series would be more well met than either this or an artwork book. I sometimes wonder where people find enough words to even write 4 pages on these matters. Maybe I should read it to find out.

jive238

@Ravenhood: Yeah, it would be hard because people would want to hold onto the things that hinder them because they think its what makes them unique, and trying to force it on people would just end in revolution. The only way to actually do it, would be that society itself accepted this fact, and went about it, with the next generation being the genuine pigs. Still, at some point, a man would lets just say "throw a apple" and the cycle would repeat itself.

This is why humans are doomed to fail, we are our own worst enemies.

Suda51

@Suda51: But because society is already in such a state of critical thinking, how can we manage to bring ourselves to a more simplistic state? It's a good idea in theory, but we're already so far past that point that it would be nigh impossible, especially on a societal scale, to simplify ourselves in any sense of the term.

On the topic of the book itself: it might be interesting to look at... but nothing to be taken seriously in reading. If anything, though, this book would make sociologists and psychologists further explore the effects the gaming culture can have on an individuals' life. Unless, of course, this book is just for fun and nothing more (while it touts itself as philosophy, who'd really take it seriously?).

Ravenhood

My mind <- blow.

Shiryu

@Jody-Per-Ardua-Surgo: Actually, when you think about it, this (aptly termed) tripe would most likely serve to legitimize your hobby in the eyes of most people. I mean, it's got the word "philosophy" in the title, how can it not be legit?

Anyways, who cares what the world thinks? I'm out to enjoy games, whether they entertain through mindless minigamery, fun friend fragging multiplayer or a deep thought provoking story. If general population takes it seriously or not, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game at all. Acceptance of games as a socially acceptable form of entertainment will become more widespread as the "gamer generation" ages and has kids of their own. It'll happen naturally. So don't worry about it. If you want to speed up the process, have lots of kids!

JokesJokes

[www.xkcd.com]

Just replace "Literary Criticism" with "Philosophy" and there you go.

icegoat

These kind of books are interesting in my opinion but im not so interested in Zelda series.

spaz33

I'll actually look this book over if I find it in a book store.

Channing

This reminds me of that Philosophy of the Simpsons book my dad got a while ago. It sucked ass.

Narsil

Philosophy is the essentially the same it's the way different writers talk about the questions that make it interesting. Now, this book could be quite cheesy but underneath the layer of cheese it'll be asking the same fundamental questions of life, universe and everything. Of course, the learned ones already know the answer to that is 42.

babelfisher

Oh boy, Zelda is *not* art.
They're video games, made purely for cashgrab purposes.

losplagos

@Suda51: I love the idea.

vincehardy

@ila: I'm kind of interested in it too but from the questions I've heard I don't believe there's any reason to look at it. It seems like baseless conjecture merely trying to make a slightly above average adventure game into an art form. If this came out for something great like Ico or something I'd get it but very few games can be called art and if they can't be called art they can hardly have an underlying philosophy.

Llost

I can't stand this kind of thing. It's like that collection of essays by "scholars" talking about GTA. I don't blame them for doing it, either; I blame the people that give their money over to fund their paychecks.

It's one thing to simply discuss these things with your pals around a table, but it's a whole nother animal when you put it into a book and prey on idiots. It can be a fun experiment to discuss these things, but selling it? Seems kinda low to me.

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

'Does Link have a will, or do gamers project their wills onto him? Can Hyrule be seen as an ideal society? How does time function? Is Zelda art?'
No because in the game Link makes no choices and is controlled by the will of the player.
No it's ridden with monsters(damn that was an easy one)
Like it does on every series.
No it's not, it's a game heavily diluted by fan based decisions (recurring characters, similar plots) which dilutes its vision, has little visual or stylistic flare and doesn't convey a particular theme or vision. It's also made by several people so lacks the singular influence of an artist thus is diluted. Not to mention it's created as an entertainment medium to be sold for a profit rather than to convey emotion, feeling or a message.

Llost

I think this actually could be an entertaining read. Why not give it a chance to at least come out before getting all cynical?

ila

Another philosophic questions. After 20 years of making a game where the main character can't get his princess, when will his good sense barge in and say: "Hey, you go home and have a good time, screw the world, they'll never thank you properly anyway and you'll never get the girl. Life sucks, get a helmet."

Phibius

I figured out the philosophy in the first game; it's "Buy something, will ya?"

Knukleur

...what? Those are pretty much the same things you can apply to just about any video game that's not Bioshock.

Angryrider

It's dangerous to think alone. Take this.

cordsie

Seriously people, don't feed the guys who publish this crap. There's no philosophy behind zelda (or atleast none deeper than the good vs evil which every generic game can pull off). Zelda = good
zelda philosophy = bad

Llost

I own the corresponding books for The Simpsons and South Park. While occasionally thought-provoking, it often seems that the topic is shoehorned into whatever element of philosophy is being discussed.

I'll probably skip this one.

Bort

As a philosophy major and as a HUGE Zelda fan, I will definitely be picking this one up. Excellent find!

Spamwise14

In fairness, these books are pretty harmless. Most people with a formal philosophy background see that these books (Philosophy of the Matrix, Philosophy of the Simpsons, Philosophy of Fighting Off Circling Sharks) are just basic philosophical questions dressed up with a few source references. "Does Link have free will", I would expect, just serves to introduce determinism/free angents. "Is Hyrule a perfect society" might introduce Plato's Republic. If it's anything like the other books in the genre, it just serves to act like a more user-friendly Phil 101 class. I would be suprised if it suggests that there are inherent and hidden philsophical declarations in Zelda. I doubt it would claim that the Three Primal Spirits are *intentionally* Aristotle's "Unmoved Movers". Just a nice way to get your feet wet.

This contrasts with say, "Philosophy of BioShock," which was obviously intentionally philosophical in nature, though, granted, the argument seems to be along the lines of "Suck it, Ann Rynd!" Still, I wouldn't mind reading *that* for a few hundred pages so long as it was bundled with more Big Daddy concept art.

Kallisti_8

@dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased:

I was impressed with the "scholars" who contributed. Some of them are my heroes and have established some of the first true videogame theory and analysis classes at University of Madison and MIT.

The link shows the opencourseware.

[ocw.mit.edu]

DivineGigi

You are awfully harsh on a book you haven't read.

It is part of the Open Court "Philosophy of Fill-in-the-blank" series. Bascially it is pop-philosophy exploring various philosophical issues tied to videogames and not in anyway intended to be a post-mortem art/design book. It IS the only book dedicated to videogame philosophy. Aren't you happy there is at least one in the world? Games are beginning to be taken seriously!

As for relevancy, my friend and I have an essay in there (on secrets, my specialty!) and I am a game designer for 2K Oz. This book isn't divorced from industry.

One last thing: this book was made with love. No one who contributed got paid, even the editor isn't getting royalties. Why don't you give us some positive publicity instead of a nasty smack-down?

Kotaku you disappoint me.

DivineGigi

You can make a philosophy book out of any subject.

M

I will own this, I shall I shall.

Muisee

They should do one of these on The Bards Tale.

johnknee777

@manaknight:
oops comma in my URL! Proper link: [www.opencourtbooks.com]

manaknight

This reminds me of a few years after the Matrix movies came out and all these books about religion and technology were talking about the movie was a sign of times to come or how religion would still be important.

I wanted to know where I could find the book telling me it was just a GOD DAMN MOVIE.

exkon

While I'm sympathetic to the aims of such a book, my experience with this series of "Popular Culture and Philosophy" [www.opencourtbooks.com] leads me to be pretty sure the execution will be poor. Especially in comparison to the strong works that are coming out from the Digital Media field.

What would be useful is a actual study of Zelda as a game, and the ideas and innovations that make it so iconic.

Most of these series stems by people desperate to get published, (By no fault of their own. The US academic emphasis on publishing is absurdly extreme, favoring number of publications over quality of work.) but I have no doubt they're authentic in their love of Zelda and Philosophy. I just don't think it really carries over to a pop culture audience. Indeed this whole series is a cash grab, but the authors probably get nothing more than a publication credit on their CV. In fact, this really is a coffee table book for fans, like the rest of the series. I doubt anyone who buys these reads them in more than a cursory manner.

But hey, at least it wasn't Halo and Philosophy, right? Give them cred for picking a hollowed and historic franchise at least.

manaknight

@Kallisti_8:

Aye, I imagine that's the way of it. Zelda's a pretty arbitrary choice of game for this kind of book philosophically speaking, as philosophy by nature is the most general of topics, so you can examine pretty much anything specific and extrapolate it to a general issue. This kind of book just takes something lots of people love as the specific, for a nice introduction to deep issues, such as:

Q: Why is Zelda so awesome in Smash?

A: Because her lightning magic modus pwns. Seriously, I love that shit.

- Bertrand Russell, date unknown

OddyKnocky

When i read the title, i immediately imagined link, zelda and gannon discussing about life in a room full of smoke, lights, bongos and hats. Also there were only vegetarians. And when i came back from the dream, i realized how fucking ridiculous was this book and the idea that someone believed zelda story was worthy of study. Fucking nerd.

Daisuash

This sounds like the very definition of trite. People really try too hard.

ThisCharmingMan

@AxelMinami: Call me narrow-minded, I really do not see two words or cursing your head off that would consider as a joke or not.

Shachihoko

What I don't understand is how Kotaku can bat their eyes at this, and shun something that actually is trying to establish gaming as a serious medium. That is seriously counter-productive to the very industry that you are reporting on. For shame.

Do you honestly want all your games to be shallow like your Maddens and Blacks?

tybeet

Hey, if people can write college theses on Final Fantasy X, why not philosophical analysis of Zelda?

urutapu

This sounds like the very definition of trite. People really try too hard.

Might want to get a new dictionary. Last I checked, trite was defined as "characterized by overuse; unoriginal" which doesn't pertain to this at all. I think you were trying to say something else, though I don't know what.

I think this book has a lot of potential, especially considering how it could follow in the footsteps of Jonathan Blow's own thick philosophical readings into gaming.

tybeet

I'm actually interested in reading this! The Zelda nerd in me commands!

Super Bunny Princess

As a Zelda geek, I'm interested.

Maybe I'll just end up walking around with the book like I did with the hardcover-golden-papery Zelda twilight Princess book and constantly recite "And on the third day, Link traveled to Death Mountain and fasted for 40 days and prayed to Farore, winning the Big Bomb Bag.

Like I did 3 weeks ago...

Mesren_Makai

well, i think that's too much (probably someone up in comments already mentioned their next title - the problems of hedonism and father&son relationships in MarioKart), but what IS interesting is a study on Zelda continuity, like that of GameTrailers. it really woke my inner geek up.

echovch

@Furious_Liver:

I believe I saw 3 different Simpsons Philosophy books in a Walden's like 5-6 years ago. They were all quite funny.

I agree with you about video games not being just about mindless fun and that they wouldn't evolve if that was their only purpose. This is why I don't like Nintendo games. Same old games, genres, plots. Very little progression and there is no fun in stagnation.

postulio71

Do video game blog readers just... not have any interests besides video games?

Okay, I've actually read a dozen of the Open Court Pop Culture + Philosophy books. I'm assuming the Zelda book follows the template. Real, actual philosophers and philosophy teachers ("pseudo-intellectuals" mysteriously absent) will explain in cozy undergrad terms some basic philosophical concepts using a pop text with which the audience is familiar. Sometimes you'll disagree, sometimes learn something (depending on how much philosophy you've read), sometimes get a different perspective, both on the art under examination and the philosophy lens being used.

That's it. They're unpretentious books, written for a popular audience. They're not "pretentious", because they don't "pretend" to be about philosophy: they really actually honest-to-God ARE. Nor are they hifalutin. They don't pretend to reveal hidden coded esoteric messages in the text. The Zelda series is particularly rich and ideal for this kind of essay collection, but honestly the quality and depth of the text isn't inherently linked to Open Court's aims. It would be just as valid to assemble a volume of "Spy Hunter and Philosophy" or "My Walk to the Drugstore and Philosophy". Part of the goal here is to make the very word "philosophy" less intimidating... which doesn't seem to work. If the above nonsense is any barometer, don't be surprised if a future gaming-and-sociology book should include a piece on "Anti-Intellectualism in Online Gamer Communities".

That the book likely requires at least some interest in the subject, the focus is actually on the philosophy, and the contributors tend to be untrained as media studies writers (again - philosophy bent, not lit crit tradition).

Prof.Corpse

This post and thread just seem to be screaming "anti-intellectualism." Sad indeed.

The books use popular culture as a way to help explain philosophical concepts because philosophy can be hard to grasp for many people. You'd think that the inclusion of a Zelda and Philosophy book would also signify the growth of the industry and its influence, but no.

Go on and keep trashing it because it's not a book full of pretty pictures.

Huckleberry

Does Twilight Princess really suck?

RatMessiah

@RatMessiah: I didn't think so. My ral problem with it was tht it felt same old same old, and most of the items you got were really just specialty keys for their respective dungeons, nothing you would use all the time like the boomerang in ocarina of time. Plus I absolutely hated midna. Incredibly annoying little thing. The twilight levels weren't super inspired either. It was good, but not awesome. Definitely did not suck though.

JokesJokes

@tybeet:
It's because they should be using other, actual examples of art and philosophising about them.
Not Nintendo games for crying out loud!

losplagos

At first I thought this was ridiculous. Then I gave it a chance. Without knowing too much about this series it has the potential to be quite interesting. My guess is they use the game or meta-game to illustrate philosophical arguments. This could be fresh and exciting as long as the examples are really good and not shoe-horned in.

Why are a lot of you so hostile to an attempt to see anything remotely intellectual about the gaming hobby? Yep, this is the way to show all those neigh-sayers that computer gamers are not the illiterate morons many people think you to be. Oh wait.. this is kotaku... philosophy? Fuck that, just give me something I can kill *SMASH SMASH*

@: Sorry you lost me at "art".

What's not artistic about Zelda? What's not philosophical about considering the universe of Hyrule and how that might pertain to our own modern society?

tybeet