@teeps1981:

Remember the X Files game? That was SEVEN discs. And that was awesome. So to answer your original question, no, no game on more than one disc has ever been bad.

carrliadiere

@teeps1981: pretend? I'm sorry...who are you?...read my last post.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@Cryoh: but how big is the install going to be? PS3 games don't do a full game install. Only certain components are installed to help with the load times. If this is similar with 360 either

a) larger portions of FFXIII will have to be installed on the harddrive. If the game is supposed to run without the need for swapping disks, post install, then we're talking about a huge installation on the HDD

b) similar install methods will be used on the 360 as the PS3 still requiring multiple disks and swaps.

So, either buy a bigger HDD or just swap the disks. Not so bad considering 360 owners get a chance to play FFXIII. What I don't like is that both versions will be released at the same time. If the PS3 version is the first version finished then it should be the first version released. Why should PS3 owners suffer a longer wait for a 360 port? SquareEnix already said that work on the 360 version won't begin until the PS3 version is done. Not cool.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@teeps1981: It's not really an issue it's just a point some people like to state. Mandatory installs are bad because you have to manage data constantly or pay for a bigger hard drive just to fit all your games and stuff on. But take 10 seconds to swap a disc and suddenly that's the breaking point for whether you buy it on PS3 or 360 for some reason. I think it's mostly just fanboys that wanted it on PS3 anyway. Got used to it being PS3 exclusive so don't want it anywhere else.

Llost

@carrliadiere: Yeah. In fact i used to remember talking to my mates at school saying "Ive got FF7 its on 3 disks" and they'd be "great stuff man".

MORE disks...thats what i say. uck one disk blue ray. I know a game is going to be good if its got 2 or more disks. Lets face it...can anyone name a game on multi-disks that wasn't fantsic?

teeps1981

@scdnyc: Where do you come up with these things?

Fallible

@teeps1981:

You're right, disc swapping used to be really cool. FF7 on 3 discs was the height of coolness on the PS1. And now it's perceived as bad, because it seems an affront to the power of a certain console.

I like it, gives me a sense of achievement. Along with actual achievements.

carrliadiere

"I think that just as we got a massive blip up from GTA IV, which was not exclusive, we'll get exactly the same blip up with Final Fantasy."

And in the US, the 360 version outsold the PS3 version 2:1. So who's to say what's going to happen, or how much it will matter in the global scope?

@sonaiko: "And it has the lead technology (BD-DRIVE i mean lol!)"

How exactly do you define "lead technology"?

justhesh

simple fact that they keep talking about it lets you know its a big deal... Microsoft/360 is killing SONY in the RPG front, we all know this.

scdnyc

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.:

I dont see why number of disks would be an issue. Its either wait through mandatory installs and slower load times on PS3 or stand up and swap discs every so often.

Swapping discs never bothered peple on PS1 or PS2....why start pretending its a huge issue now?

teeps1981

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Depends on the compression technology largely, while we can argue GTA IV fit on one disc there is also games like lost odyssey already on 4. I'd hazard a guess the lowest we'd see it at is 2 discs but can't imagine it being on more than 4 discs to be honest. I doubt they'd even bother if it was going to take so many discs.

Llost

MEH....

xCruciaLx

@Mobus:

Yeah, I realise now I shouldn't have opened with such a personal comment. What I really mean when I say that is 'I can't imagine why *I* would buy a PS3'.

The stupid thing is, I actually do want a PS3. I just doubt I'd get many games for it at this point.

carrliadiere

@AngelMayLaugh:

Lets face it. Kingdom Hearts 3 is going to be AT LEAST multi-platform, if not a 360 exclusive. I mean look at the way the majority of japanese publishers are jumping off the Sony ship. Capcom are pissed of with them, Squre are pissed off with em. With old PS exclusives such as Star Ocean (a Japanese console seller in itslef) switching format i really ont beleive Sony will manage to keep hold of KH3.

teeps1981

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.:

It's still undecided what kind of compression SE will use.

Garo

How many discs is FFXIII going to be on 360? I don't remember reading an exact number anywhere but I'm guessing at least 4.

@JakeDunn: yeah, it's being ported and I agree. PS3 purchase for me.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@carrliadiere: Gotcha. :)

Mobus

@carrliadiere: You're right, which console offers the most/best games for someone is a matter of preference.

For some, the PS3 is the best choice. Others, the 360.

What bothers me is when people say "why buy a PS3? It makes no sense" and so on. Obviously to many people it does make sense, and that should be reason enough without having to list all the great games that are indeed available for it.

Mobus

@JakeDunn: Don't forget, by the time that FFXIII comes out for the 360, you can install the game to the HD, just like the PS3 version.

Cryoh

@JakeDunn: WRONG

Being developed on PC.

teeps1981

@carrliadiere: Most games are multiplat and PS3 has Ratchet, LBP, Resistance, Versus(Ps3 Exclusive so far), and Kingdom Hearts III is still undecided. I'm going with a Ps3 to spend my $400 on.

AngelMayLaugh

Watch out Heavy Rain! Behind you! It's Microsoft's Corporate Vice President of Strategy and Business Development, Shane Kim with a blank check! Run!!!!

Mr.Bates

@Mobus:

It's 289.99 in pounds. I like in the UK, and I have no pound symbol on my keyboard.

carrliadiere

@carrliadiere:

PAL store is awful yes, but then the European marketplace is a tad worse the the American marketplace and well the video marketplace is practically non-existent.

I'm happy I can play both.

JakeDunn

@carrliadiere: $400, or the price of a 360 after an XBL subscription.

Although with the rumored price cut, the 360 will be $50-100 cheaper, depending on if you get XBL.

But no, the PS3 is not still $600. 0.o

Mobus

@Gen.Grievous:

Dear Lord, what unwritten rule have I violated to get this response?

carrliadiere

And yeah Kotaku this piece is a bit sad, it's somthing you would read on joystiq or eurogamer but not on Kotaku. Reeves just answered a question a reporter asked him.

Gen.Grievous

@sonaiko: You don't need to buy new ones when it has a warranty first of all, second don't try and counter minor trolling with major trolling cos it makes you seem like the true troll in the end. There's a difference between someone just not liking the games on a console and someone trolling about a console breaking so no one wanting it.

Llost

@tsukasa1288:

I'm getting it on the ps3 because

a) it'll probably be multi disc dvd on the 360 (see Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon). I'll stick with one blu-ray thank you very much.

b) if I understood correctly, it's being developed on the ps3 and ported to the 360.

JakeDunn

@carrliadiere: it's because you're 12 years old, wisdom comes with age my friend. :S

Gen.Grievous

@tsukasa1288:

You mean, on the topic of blips in sales of PS3s? All right...

carrliadiere

@Plsk1n: Don't encourage them... actually, encourage them further. We need Wallpaper sized exec pictures

hitokirimaru

@tsukasa1288:

This early? its 8:30pm!!!

oh wait! im on the whole other side of the planet! lol!

sonaiko

@Fallible:

God of War 3? TBC 2009 God of War 3? Fine...

Well, in any case. None of the games you listed interest me, so I guess it's a problem of genre. And what I hear is an awful PAL store.

carrliadiere

@carrliadiere:
try to keep things more on topic, no need to start a console war this early in the morning

i kinda feel where reeves is coming from, most everyone i know is going ps3 with ff13 because if they are able to.

tsukasa1288

No more giant executive pictures on Kotaku, citizens rejoice!

Plsk1n

@carrliadiere:

Ill tell u why. Coz some people bought a 360, and got the RROD. Then bought another one, and got their DVD drives malfunctioning. They bought a new one, and whoops! the motherboard is damaged..!
u think they will buy a fourth one?

Now I am sure MS will win this race, since each gamer buys at least 4 360 systems!

Coz SONY at least has a very low failure rate, thats why!. And it has the lead technology (BD-DRIVE i mean lol!)

sonaiko

@muu: Exactly

henri1kk

Here is the complete interview [www.gamesindustry.biz]

Q: Probably the most obvious thing to talk about there would be Final Fantasy - that was a bit of a shock announcement at E3 - how do you think the fact that it's going to be a cross-platform release is going to affect hardware sales?

David Reeves: I think that just as we got a massive blip up from GTA IV, which was not exclusive, we'll get exactly the same blip up with Final Fantasy. I know it will look great on PS3, and it's up to Microsoft to clarify this, but it's still exclusive in Japan.

Garo

@carrliadiere:

I've got both and well

Resistance 2
Little Big Planet
Socom confrontation
Killzone 2
Infamous

are enough reasons for me. I bought it specifically for MGS 4 and LBP.

For the 360 I'm looking forward to

Mercenaries 2, co-op with my pals
Gears 2, nuff said
Fallout3, exclusive dlc
Left 4 Dead

still not sure which platform I will get dead space on though.

JakeDunn

@DUFFKING: You make it sound as if the other companies go around offering hugs and kind words of wisdom to each other. They don't, but we can all dream.

@carrliadiere: Metal Gear, Resistance, LBP, God Of War and all of the other multiplatform games available for both systems. Nice try.

Anyway, not being a fan of the series I probably won't be picking it up for any system. That's just me though.

Fallible

I don't know how this guy still have his position in Sony. Apparently there will never be a cure for his foot and mouth disease. Sheesh!!

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

If it goes Japan simul-release, he'll start talking about how great Versus will be. If Versus goes multiplat...

muu

I sitill don't understand why people would buy a PS3. I mean, I would have got one for FFXIII, but now there's no need. The only other game of interest and exclusive is MGS4, but... $600 for a machine to play two games?

That said, I understand it's a sexy Blu-Ray player. I think if I got one, that'd be almost all I'd ever use it for, wheras I must log about 15 hours a week of gaming on my 360.

carrliadiere

Sony employee in trying to make the PS3 look better the rivals shocker!

DUFFKING

@flight240: Yeah I agree, this is sort of a scoff at the fact that it won't affect there sales as much but it does little to reassure people that PS3 still has the exclusives necessary (not saying they haven't got the exclusives with Heavy rain, LBP, KZ2, Resistance2 and the PSN stuff but I think that would have worked better). So bad PR in my opinion.

Llost

Man, screw the games, Sony's TGS press conferences should just be David Reeves speaking his mind on stage for an hour and a half. The amount of good press they would get would be flabbergasting.

Nirolak

I can't wait for this game, but I'm buying it for my PlayStation 3. I still can't get pass the Final Fantasy XIII on Xbox 360 thing.

NYKnicker

... can't really scoff at something as huge as FFXIII moving onto multiplatform status.

you can't really save face from that. all Sony can really do is show us what else they have to say, "alright, FXIII isn't all we got you know? there's plenty more."

i'm looking forward to it. =]

flight240

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: uhh, The 360 FFXIII is the same as a timed exclusive, its exclusive on PS3 until they release it on 360 6 months down the track. They said they weren't going to begin development until the PS3 version was released.

Also, MGS4 on the 360? Yeah... Hey, gears of war 2 is coming out on the DS, btw.

ryivanV2

It's this sort of blase attitude that gets our games released up to nine months after the USA! Never trust a Dave.

Ladi

@teeps1981:Going back to play a favorite RPG down the track, Playing 30 hours of an RPG to find that the last disc of a game that isn't manufactured anymore is buggered isn't a hindrance? Uh...

ryivanV2

@carrliadiere:

399 dollars for an 80GB PS3, not 600!

Source: Sony E3 conferance.

xiked

@teeps1981: my bad, it read like you were but since that's not the case, my apologizes. Yeah about the PC development environment and the Crystal engine. Also considering that cross-platform development has already been stated as easier from Ps3>360 then yeah an argument can be made for a relatively fast turn around...

But...

Just as @AngelMayLaugh: said, The Last Remnant gets a timed exclusive release on 360 but FFXIII doesn't get the same treatment on Ps3 and it's still anyone's guess as to whether FF Versus XIII will remain exclusive. (I'm guessing "no" and expect MGS4 to be announced for 360 by year's end.) As a gamer, I want to play the game as soon as it's done. From a business perspective, SquareEnix is going to make a killing on FFXIII...period...unless it sucks to hell, then we all lose.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Another reason why Sony Europe executives should just STFU.

ironraiden

@ryivanV2:

However...hinderence to actual game play = ZERO!

teeps1981

I see multiple discs as a bad thing because, especially with a timeless title like MGS4 and Final Fantasy, if i come back to it years down the track there is a much higher chance that one of my 6 discs will be damaged. Scratches, heat, overuse or just plain lost.

Nothing would be more frustrating then having the game for a while and losing disc 3/4.

And, while i do try to take care of my stuff, this happens, as it does for everyone.

Oh, and before any smart ass tries with the "but that point is moot, if you lose disc 1/1 your screwed too", keep in mind that, statistically speaking a disc has a % chance of being damaged within a given time frame. more discs, higher % per game.

That, and lets be honest, isn't it a little silly to be enjoying all this beautiful new technology, HD Tv's, Broadband internet and Cell processors and still have your video games saying "Please insert disc 7".

ryivanV2

@Hey_guy: FF7-FF9 all had 4 discs. The series hasn't crumbled yet. Besides, people should be taking the discs out before they turn off their console anyway. That's technically disc swapping every single time you play ANY game. Disc swapping is the most inconsequential aspect of gaming since the turbo button.

justhesh

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Oh sorry...i didnt realise that i was talking solely to you specifically when i said 'pretend'. Maybe...just maybe, i was talking in general about the many people who state that Blu-ray is always ging to be superior to DVD because there is no need to swap disks.

The game is being developed on squares own PC based crystal engine with the focus on the PS3. Now whilst the game is being translated for a western market they jus need to tweak the PC code for the 360 which will probably take less time than the translation.

teeps1981

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: I agree with the last part, especially since they are giving The Last Remnant an exclusive release period.

AngelMayLaugh

Last week the very same guy thought that Mirror's Edge is a timed PS3 exclusive...

Bedlam

Honestly, if swapping a disc every ~10 hours is enough to keep you from playing a game then chances are you weren't going to play that game regardless of it's disc count and/or you really should just be punched in the throat if swapping a disc is too much work for you.

Hey_guy

@teeps1981: lol, It just shows how certain things please certain people. Some hate having to change disks. Others...well they LOVE it... lol

I'm pretty impartial on that matter. I think blu-ray is cool, I like the storage size and the HD movies. But Sony shouldn't have put it into their PS3. The price hurt them too much at first, and even now they are struggling to keep up with MS's price cuts.

Mobus

I think we have already established that while the loss of Final Fantasy's exclusivity was a big blow for Sony, it's hardly a death blow and I doubt we're going to see their demise over it.

Despite what the 360 loyalists wish for in their fevered dreams of lunacy, Sony isn't going away any time soon.

PapaBear434

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Because people in the US speak english and people in Japan speak Japanese. THAT is where the te ifference lies and that is why it took over a yra to bring the other FF's out in the west.

teeps1981

Sony all of a sudden having this moral problem with "paying for exclusives" (which was obviously not a problem for them the last couple of generations) is seriously hurting them this time around. I'm not saying most people aren't gonna buy FF13 on the PS3 (I mean, come on, there's like 150 xboxes in Japan) but it almost seems like they just don't care anymore; like they aren't even trying.

I'm not sure how the masterminds behind the PS2 can suddenly become so lazy and complacent. Come on, guys. It's not like you don't have competitors.

dowingba

know > now

+1 on the need for an edit button

JakeDunn

@teeps1981:

Actually, for me it's a preference since I find the gamecases for the multi-disc games to be a nuisance. 360 games should be in a regular dvd case, not bigger as then it won't fit in my dvd closet/furniture (what's the proper word for it anyway?).

At least some 2dvd games have the normal width but beyond that is the thicker variety.

As for MGS 4 on the 360, who knows somewhere down the road. When games can be installed on the 360 harddrive and they find a solution for say texture mapping along the lines of idtech to minimize the needed disc space. For know though I guess the costs don't outweigh the benefits.

JakeDunn

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: * I find it hard to believe 360 couldn't handle that 3D engine..." sorry about the typos....jeez Kotaku gods, I really need an edit button.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@teeps1981: um yes its developed on PC, but the question is what is it being developed FOR? All console games are developed on PCs :P

PC to X360 turnaround is quicker, but as far as I know FF13 is not being developed FOR PC's, so your point is moot.

asTer0id

@teeps1981: true that but why can't it be a simultaneous release on PS3 between the US and Japan? See my problem? I want it when the Japanese get it.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@ryivanV2: what? hold on a second bro...I don't remember it that way. I thought the PS3 and 360 version were going to be released simotaneously? Only in Japan will FFXIII be exclusive to PS3 for obvious reasons. I could have swore SquareEnix said they weren't going to begin the 360 port until FFXIII was finished (development) not after it was released. But hey, I'd love to be wrong on that score.

Come on dude, do you honestly think that Konami is going to ignore all those monies and NOT release MGS4 on 360. I bet the final decision was made after SquareEnix announced FFXIII on 360. They'll compress the hell out of it through in some Live support and ship it out the door. The only issue is storage, because I find it hard to believe that 360 could handle that 3D engine. Don't laugh...CoD4 is on DS along with Assassins Creed, Brothers in Arms and a new GTA is in the pipe.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@xiked: that's 480€ here in Finland. In other words, around same price the PS3 has always been. Only things that's really changing is Sony stripping features (PS2-compatibility) and adding useless disk space. I say useless because the actual price difference between 60 and 80 GB's of hard disk space is measured in single digits.

What I'd like to see is Sony stopping the bullshit PR and bullshit offerings. I mean, as this exclusive is taken away, it certainly isn't your competitor's fault, now is it? It's your fault for not having a system worth staying exclusive to.

kryo

@xiked:

289 English pounds! Soure: I live in the UK!

carrliadiere

ryivanV2:: My New Years Resoloution is to always put the game disks back in the box.

But seriously. I have every FF since 7 and not one of thm has a scratch on them because i have always made sure to keep them in the box on the shelf.

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Apology accepted.

PS3>360 turn around is much quickerthan 360>ps3 turnarond granted. However PC>360 turnaround is much much quicker than PC>PS3 turnaround.

The game will probably be released in Japan as soon as its done and the360 version likely to be completed during the time taken to globalise the languages. So there is no real evidence to suggest the 36 IS going to pro-long the release of FFXIII into the western market.

teeps1981

@ryivanV2: Japanese Ps3 version. Everywhere else is Simultaneous release.

AngelMayLaugh

@PapaBear434: Also...with Sony taking a massive loss on hardware sales with them unlikely to be profitable in the PS3's generaion....th probably cant afford to keep these exclusives.

teeps1981

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: And with the ammount of money that was pumped into i should bloody well think so. Konami work much differently and had a much bigger team working on MGS than SE do on FF

teeps1981

@dowingba:

I think Sony is just trying something different this gen in that they are letting go of their old established titles that would cost them a mint to keep exclusive for instead supporting new, riskier properties that may or may not pay off in the future but have a much lower entrance investment. Now, personally I think it couldn't hurt to keep around some of the old intellectual properties that made your system a household name, looking at it objectively makes me think Sony might be onto something different.

While I'm sure that LittleBigPlanet was not cheap to develop, it probably cost Sony half as much for it's exclusivity than it would have to keep GTA4 all to themselves. I'd say the same goes for Final Fantasy when compared most all of the titles you see coming exclusive to the PS3.

Resistance was a brand new IP, from an admittedly established company that only made platformers previously. Now, people are hotly anticipating it's sequel.

Previously mentioned LBP is taking the internet by storm with it's cuteness.

Warhawk is one of the best console shooters so far this gen, and has a ton of players on it's official ranked servers and has quite a following waiting for their jetpack update.

On the RPG front, Folklore is a very fun, unique action RPG with a good story and actually good SIXAXIS implementation (it's true, stop laughing.) And new content seems to endlessly come to PSN, even a year or so after launch.

Not to mention PSN's incredibly rich landscape of things like the Pixeljunk series (Eden, Monsters...), Pain, Super Stardust HD, Everyday Shooter, and other great titles that are cheap to make, cheap to distribute, and low cost with high profitability ratios.

Now of course not all of their ventures have paid off. Heavenly Sword was praised for it's graphics, gameplay, and facial animation and acting prowess, but was a financial disappointment thanks to it's rightful negative reception to its insanely short play time. Lair had the graphics and arguably a good story, but it's "A Drunk Monkey Could Design Better Controls" feature killed it with critics and the public. And although cute with their toy ducks and sharks in an unstable washbasin, Super Rub-a-Dub wasn't exactly setting the world on fire. And let's not even get started on Haze...

But overall, I think their new approach is keeping them afloat just fine. It may even prove to be more profitable in the long run. Only time and sales figures will tell, I suppose. But I wouldn't call it laziness, I would call it "Not putting all your eggs the same old baskets."

PapaBear434

@teeps1981: and yet Konami managed to get MGS4 simultaneously released in Japan, US and Europe. Yeah...great logic there...

@DrXym: true that and Square Enix already sadi the graphics may loss a bit of fidelity on 360 because of the extra compression needed to fit the game onto a reasonable number of DVDs. Not much loss but it was enough for it to be mentioned. Be still, the general consensus is all of these are minor issues for the option to play the game on 360 so take it for what you will. I just want the game sooner than later.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Maybe its just cause we have had such a delightful morning without any real fanboy baiting and that was begining to touch the borders it seemed more trollish then i initially thought.

teeps1981

@DrXym:

I assume it will be equal to Lost Odyssey, which was four discs. And I really didn't mind swapping a disc over after 12 hours of play on each disc.

carrliadiere

@teeps1981: I think you're misinterpreting him. After FFXIII was announced to be on the 360, there were tons of post regarding "PS3 is dead!!" or "now I know I don't have to buy that system for that 1 game". There were everywhere, including kotaku. There weren't by people who have preference per se, but by those fanboys who can't see good on both systems. That's what I take from it. I don't see how this was a troll post.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@DrXym: No really? Have you all just been let out at the same time or something?

teeps1981

@PapaBear434: Hmmmm is this a trolling post? Sounds like a trolling post? There asme thinking we were having a civilised discussion without the whole "insert console preference here owners suck".

teeps1981

I think it is quite obvious the PS3 version will be superior. Everyone knows that FF XIII will have so many cutscenes that we're talking of multiple DVDs, possibly with increased compression and duplicated assets to squeeze everything in a sane number of disks. Of course the 360 defence force will leap out and say they don't mind multiple disks but the fact is most people do. Maybe FF is so linear that it can get away with multiple disks, or maybe both versions get a mandatory install to hide some of this but on the face of it it seems clear the 360 will have a tough job matching the PS3 version.

DrXym

Reeves....god dammit, just make the euro PSN store a little better will ya?
He can meh FF XIII on 360 all he wants, heck I'll still be buying it on PS3, but its still a big loss for Sony

excel_excel

@teeps1981:

1) Sony is a huge leviathan of a corporation. It can afford to lose money for a couple years to make it up with licensing, which is their usual business model.

2) They've always lost money initially on a system, only to eventually buy enough manufacturing capable locations in order to lower their costs into the black. See also: The PS2 not being "profitable" until year four of it's life.

3) Microsoft themselves never made any money on the original XBox, and only recently went into the positive on the 360. Granted, their repair costs and extended warranty set them back, but that's on them for using shoddy and failure prone designs in the first place.

Look, I never said anything about Microsoft "sucking," or that Sony was going to be the undisputed champion of this generation. All I said is that while the loss of Final Fantasy was a deep cut, it was not going to be the fatal hemorrhage for Sony that so many 360 loyalists seemed to hope it was.

PapaBear434

@teeps1981: WHAT? dude you're tripping if you think the size of the team is that much different than the MGS4 team. FFXIII is SE's biggest title to date from what I've read and of course they work differently but by the way you tell it, Konami is competent and can handle a a worldwide release and SE can't? Let's get something straight here, if you people think for one minute that current gen development is "cheaper" for 360 over PS3 let me remind you, we're still talking multi million dollar development projects no matter which console you develop for and no matter how you slice it. That's why 360 is getting FFXIII, that's why PS3 is getting Bioshock.

This shit is not cheap in any sense of the word. So@teeps1981: that's a stupid comment and no apologizes for that. To even suggest that SE isn't spending crazy cash to develop FFXIII and FF versus XIII and FFXIII Agito and FXIII: Your Mom....Give me break...

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@teeps1981:

Not a troll post, no. But everyone claiming that this move was the final nail in Sony's big, shiny, piano black coffin because they can't see past their gamerscore erection need to get some perspective.

But hey, I'm just a long time poster to this site with an established history of console hatred and love on both sides. See here yesterday where I was accused of being a Microsoft fanboy. And then see the next page where I explained that, again, I don't care what system it is.

But, if you want to disregard opinions that you don't agree with as simply fanboyism, that's your prerogative. It makes you short sighted, but it's your right.

PapaBear434

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Hmm there was me thinking i compared FFXIII to MGS in terms of money to develop. NOt FFXIII compared to Braid.

Dont beleive i mentioned 360 being cheaper to deveop for either. You making comments up for me now?

teeps1981

@kryo:

Sony is trying this gen exactly what they tried last gen, only even more so. DVD wasn't a Sony-exclusive format, but Bluray is.

Failure.

[en.wikipedia.org]

The "Blu-ray Disc Founder group" was started in May 2002 by nine leading electronic companies: Sony, Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung. Spearheaded by Sony Corporation, on February 19th 2002 the companies announced[2] that they were the "Founders" of the Blu-ray Disc and later changed their name to the "Blu-ray Disc Association" on May 18, 2004 to allow more companies to join their development. Some examples of companies that signed in include Apple, TDK, Dell, Hewlett Packard, The Walt Disney Company, Warner Bros. and Universal Music Group. As of December 2007, there are more than 250 members and supporters of the Association.

If they wanted to create a good machine for games business, they wouldn't have created a PS3. What the hardware actually represents is a dream machine for decompressing video and audio (=playing hd movies) with a really tricky option of developing games on the side.

While I agree Sony was trying to push Blu-ray adoption, the system itself is perfectly suited for gaming outside of it's learning curve. But that, by and large, has been dealt with and developers are churning out games just fine.

Final Paragraph is full of painful loyalist analysis I don't feel like quoting.

Not quite. Sony had a lot of momentum combined with a lot of developer support from the first Playstation thanks to it's CD based storage. Now, surely the DVD player pushed a lot of systems off the shelf, but that wasn't the only reason. The PS2 already had GTA in it's stable (from GTA 1 and 2,) as well as other games, and picked up a lot of Dreamcast refugees from the fall of Sega. The PS2 had a perfect storm of consumer interest that led to it's success, to be sure, but to discount it's library of established titles it gained from it's predecessor and Sega's leftovers would be foolish.

Sony IS trying something new this time. I don't know if it will pay off, and as I said I think they should have ponied up the cash to keep GTA and FFXIII. But, I'm not the one writing checks, and their decision has given us Uncharted, Warhawk, and other great games so far this gen.

As a consumer, it's hard for me to not like this.

PapaBear434

Snore.
More *insert console maker here* executive spinning BS. Yes, losing FF 13 as an exclusive hurt Sony.

Will it kill them? No.

End of story.

heretrix

GTA IV and MGS4 pushed consoles in the US market, true. However, I think Reeves is overestimating the market at this particular price point of the PS3. I do not think Final Fantasy XIII or LittleBigPlanet are going to make any sort of major impact on PS3 hardware sales unless a hardware price drop happens. Reeves wants to downplay the significance of FF XIII going to 360, which is his job, but I don't think he or his other Sony buddies realize that the vast majority of people will choose the path of least resistance which means buying FF XIII for the console they currently own.

Too bad there's no PC version guarantee at this point. I loved FF VII on PC.

BigDragon

@PapaBear434: Sony is trying this gen exactly what they tried last gen, only even more so. DVD wasn't a Sony-exclusive format, but Bluray is.

If they wanted to create a good machine for games business, they wouldn't have created a PS3. What the hardware actually represents is a dream machine for decompressing video and audio (=playing hd movies) with a really tricky option of developing games on the side.

There's the real reason for Sony's current "approach". They have an expensive machine (mostly because of Bluray) that's a bitch to develop for, combined with the usual worthless developer support but this time NOT with the usual market dominance they enjoyed with PS2, all resulting in an unforeseen loss of exclusives. Their original plan was very arrogant, and now they're paying for it. Serves them right, in my opinion - let's hope the lesson is learned with PS4.

kryo

I have both a PS3 and 360 but I will be getting FFXII for the 360 now, just to spite Sony and their mouthy execs.

y2julio

@carrliadiere: ass

Alex_Mexico

I need a new laptop.....crappy thing!

teeps1981

@teeps1981:

Ah, keyboard errors. That's why I use wired keyboards still. The wireless ones never could keep up with me.

PapaBear434

@teeps1981:

Actually, I think you're making up subtext for me making up subtext for you. I never presumed to know what you were thinking. I only responded to what you posted.

Incidentally, you may want to slow down when you post. The amount of mistakes and typos you had made me think you got disemvowled for a minute.

PapaBear434

@teeps1981: GOD...gimme an edit button and a keyboard that will register my frigging key presses at the speed i type will you!

teeps1981

@PapaBear434: And I didnt say anything about PS3 sucking or 360 being the god of ths gen. What i DID say was, and if i find the link id be happy to show you, that it is HIGHLY likely that Sony will make a total ammount of ZERO profit from PS3 hardware sales over the consoles lifespan and that woul certainly be a factor in paying out to secure exclusives.

Christ...hats wrng with peple providing a subtext on my behalf all of a sudde?

teeps1981

@PapaBear434:

Not that I expect you to have read the other posts I made, but I retracted the original statement and admitted it was too personal a comment and should merely have been about how I personally would not purchase the machine, and have responded twice to the fact that it's 289.99 pounds, or $580, where I live. It's $600 for me, if I want an HDMI lead as well.

I respectfully suggest you read more than one post before you assume you know 'damn well' about how valid my comments are, and assume I am a troll. Oh, and I also demand an apology.

carrliadiere

@carrliadiere:

Why do people obviously bait for no other reason than to have people post the gigantic list of exclusive games on the PS3?

That part of your troll aside, you know damn well that it's not a $600 machine, and hasn't been for a while. So please at least use current memes for your trolling, OK?

PapaBear434

Between this and Jack Tretton being dissapointed in Square Enix's decision, the lulz are many.

twinturbo2

@Alex_Mexico: Yeahhhh.. that's right you show him. Use your vastly superior intellegence to out smart the guys thinking.

teeps1981

@carrliadiere:
Welcome....to the internet!

teeps1981

@Đipic:

I can't believe how heavily chastised I have been for speaking too generally.

carrliadiere

@TheTimeisback: In other word he has no choice but to fad it...But it really hurts. ;(
Like Gears 2 on ps3. Hurt Microsoft, it would. >.>

TheTimeisback

Of course he would(Read the title). He has a rep to maintain!! Hehe

TheTimeisback

@carrliadiere: I'm pretty sure it was the pure idiocy of your comment that indicated that you have the wisdom of a 12 year old.

Đipic

@PapaBear434:

...stop saying 'meme'.

I just... I started the day badly. I got in to work at 7am, I saw the post, I thought 'why would anyone want a PS3?' and wrote it down. I didn't consider the vast rammifications of these words, and I certainly didn't say it to bait anybody into anything. It's just what I thought, and I realise now it can be misconstrued easily. So I corrected it, and there we go - about three hours later, masses of abuse, and suddently I'm an indignant troll who knows damn well that he's either lying or wrong.

Enjoy your PS3s. I personally find that my tastes are better suited on the 360.

carrliadiere

While it's not a Gunshot to the head that fanboys would want you to believe, its not just a scratch like other fanboys would have you believe either. At this point in time I would liken it to non-fatal stab wound. It Hurt like hell but you'll be fine.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

@carrliadiere: Just be thankful you weren't Disemvowelled.

As of this posting, anyway...

Frank

@PapaBear434:

I guess I just dislike being pillaried for one wayward comment, having everything else I say ignored, then being mocked for trying to respond to overwhelming criticism.

Ah well... It's a lovely welcome to kotaku, I guess.

carrliadiere

@carrliadiere:

I guess I should have explained myself better. Because even if I take away the $600 thing (the only part of my post you refuted), your post was full of the typical idiotic "The only reason to buy..." and "No games for the PS3 except..." memes.

You tossing the "$600 machine for one game..." thing on top was just another bullet point in the typical anti-Sony diatribe that's been on the internet since the PS3's release.

In other words: If you're waiting for an apology, I hope you have some snacks near your computer.

PapaBear434

It'll still sell a lot better in Japan, mainly because the audience is much bigger for PS3s there than 360s (even if Microsoft could supply the same demand that sold them out last week in the time gap). They're not going to shell out however-many-yen-it-is just to get another system. (Wait...that sounds familiar...)

As for elsewhere...well...at least you have a Blu-Ray player that's cheaper than the alternatives.

Frank

@carrliadiere: Well, what would you have said if I had posted "Who the hell actually wants to buy a freakin' 360? It doesn't have a blu ray player, you get charged to play online, Microsoft has micro-transactions for everything, all of the exclusives are terribly uninteresting and even if I did want them, why would I buy a console that has unreliable hardware when I have a nice PC that plays all of those "exclusives". And then I went on to indignantly post later, "I really meant that's why I wouldn't buy a 360." Damage is already done. *sigh* Sorry, but perhaps you should have put a little more though into your comment before making it. (I think you recognize that though, so I apologize.) It's just irritating enough that we constantly have people intentionally baiting others.

Đipic

@carrliadiere:

You demand an apology? Are you going to challenge me to a duel and demand satisfaction next?

PapaBear434

I don't live in Japan so it is of no intrest to me that they cannot play FFXIII on their 360, I will be able to play it on mine.

VladMalice

@PapaBear434: If a system has a killer learning curve to get anything worthwile done, while its competitor is arguably the easiest console to develop for to date, it certainly isn't "perfectly suited".

If by "churning out games just fine" you mean third party developers delaying their games for months, years, or even refusing PS3-porting completely, then yeah. I guess you're right - there are games. But compared to 360, PC or even Wii, at a great additional cost.

You go on with something about discounting the PS2's momentum from it's predecessor, which I never did, but whatever - that was exactly my point: they thought they could pull off whatever they wish with pure momentum and bullshit pr, but this time the arrogance seems to have backfired because of a more fierce competition. Momentum and BS wasn't enough anymore, you also have to deliver. Upon failing this, you'll have to start thinking about something new - maybe this is the new you're referring to.

Anyway, yes, from a consumer standpoint competition is always good. Personally, I still see the PS3 as a bluray player with some games - and one can get a pc bluray drive for 80€. A flop, simply because the thing isn't any better (many might argue it's actually worse) for games than its main competitor. What did we wait a year for? What do we pay the 200€ price premium for? Where's those two promised Cell's? Why is the GPU actually worse than in 360? Catch my drift?

I'm somewhat biased, yes, even bitter, but that kinda stems from the facts. I couldn't care less who makes the product if I can feel the product is good for me and supportive of its industry as a whole. As I said, here's to hoping the lessons are learned with PS4. If they're learned before, all the better, but so far there are few convincing signs of that. One LBP isn't quite enough.

I'd LOVE to be proven wrong on this, though! Simply because right now, only those consumers getting cheap 360's are actually winning, and those listening to Sony PR losing.

kryo

Half of you are fanboys who throw in a few more sentences so you don't sound like one. I don't mind fanboys... be modest, but stop pretending you love every console when you clearly have a preference for one and can't make any sort of positive comments about the competition.

everybest

@kryo: OMG what have you done? You've gone head to head with him using facts and well thought out arguements!

This is surely going to end in bloodshed.

teeps1981

@Spoony Bard:

The answer is really to draft all my comments at least twice before I post them. I now know the pitfalls of a poorly worded opinion...

carrliadiere

@carrliadiere: Well now you know. And knowing is half the battle!

Everyone has their preferences. As long as people respect the fact that someone else likes their console for whatever reason, I do believe there is hope for peace on the Internetz, David Reeves notwithstanding. :)

Spoony Bard

@everybest: OH MY GOD...THE IRONY!

teeps1981

Someone should ask Reeves how he liked EA calling him a liar for his Mirror's Edge exclusivity claims.

I've seen hardcore fanboys do less damage control than he's done this past week.

AkaMagi

FF games do sell systems in USA and Europe too, Crisis Core anyone ? It's not a matter as to whether the PS3 hasn't any game worth playing, MS probably did several studies and polls and came to the conclusion it was worth investing into this game, if they can prevent a few 360 owners from shelling for a PS3 system when the game hits like some probably will then it's a great bonus on top of the good PR that stealing a flagship title from Sony creates. It is a very emblematic title, there is no denying in this.

Fabrice

Shouldn't executives at major consumer electronics corporations have words for describing sales at their disposal that pack a little more punch than "blip"? You know, maybe a massive "swell" or "surge" in sales? Makes the shareholder say "Wow, a surge! That's fantastic!" To me, a "blip" is, oh, 50-60 units.

Then again, maybe he's just being honest...

RubyMars

@teeps1981: Are you kidding? I've stated my console preference. I don't even have a 360. Look at your own post history, you make up shit just to piss on the PS3. Now you've just wrapped yourself up with some subtle passive aggressive statements so you don't stick out with the rest of the trolls.

everybest

I do want a PS3... but guys like this make me change my mind

mascot1063

@everybest: Also, corrections to my original post since I had 30 seconds to post it before I had to run. "Half" was grossly over-exaggerated, my appologies. *modest = honest

everybest

"I think that just as we got a massive blip up [in hardware sales] with GTA IV -- which was not exclusive -- we'll get exactly the same blip up with Final Fantasy... "

The follow up question should have been "How much larger would the blip be if it stayed exclusive?"

kftgr

@teeps1981: just read your "response"

"And with the ammount of money that was pumped into i should bloody well think so. Konami work much differently and had a much bigger team working on MGS than SE do on"

Why should I make up comments for you. There's what you said right there. And as I said what difference does it make in regards to the size of either team developing either game. They're both the largest developed games in each respective franchise with huge teams and huge budgets. My point...your logic is bullshit. Konami was able to do a worldwide launch for MGS4 translations and all but your logic is SE can't do it because Konami's team is bigger and Konami spent more money in development?

First of all...how do you know and second, think about that...for a bit...it's stupid logic. SE can't handle simple translation and voice over but they've been doing it for a decade....? For feature films and gaming...from DS to PSP to 360 etc....?

like i said no apologizes...step off.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@kryo: I disagree to an extent. 360 came out year earlier because xbox was a colossal failure compare to PS2. PS3 and Wii actually came out a year too earlier IMO 360...2 years too earlier. The last gen was still pumping out great games when these machine arrived. there potential not fully maximized.

So MS released 360 a year earlier because they had to, to the tune of a 4 billion dollar loss. Sony went on a rampage with bullshit PR spin and the "we can do anything" mantra and it failed. But to downplay or dismiss PS3 development is ridiculous. As the weeks and months pass we are seeing what the PS3 can do and it is very impressive on top of all of the multi-media functions that none of the competition can match (unless your name is PC which brings other issues into account)

Sure 360 is easier to develop for than PS3...so what? Xbox was easier to develop for than PS2. Gamecube was easier to develop for than PS2 but that sure as hell didn't stop us from getting some great games...some of the greatest ever made on the PS2. So what's the point here really? PS3 isn't going to get support? It has support. It has a good library, it has even better support coming even though it's still hard to develop for. That didn't stop the port of Bioshock and it the rumors of Mass Effect being ported still pop up from time to time.

I see Sony doing the two things they should have done in the last gen...

1) build up better first and second party development. Nintendo has shown sony The Way as superior first and second party development let Nintendo survive during their darkest days and continues to serve them to this day.

2) Just shut up and let the internal development and exclusives speak for themselves...they're better but still working on that one.

360 gets FFXIII, it's all good, enjoy it. But any real gamer from back in the day knows that it's always the exclusives that truly showcase hardware. Not the ports. As such, I'll enjoy my FFXIII on PS3 and I give the nod to 360 fans that will get a chance to play it. As far as "easier to develop for, Ps3 is the suxor" mentality okay, run with that if it makes you feel better. But there are more than a few people that look to the PS3 first before 360 for their gaming needs.

360 isn't going to win the generation. It's already over. Nintendo won it. 360 did what MS set out to with the Xbox. They stopped Sony from owning the living rooms across the globe. They stopped the Sony freight train. Too bad they got run over by the one they missed with the big WII on the front.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

this guy is so full of crap

killadudeman

And I totally "Meh" MGS on the PS3

Lanhoj

Experience tells me these things move in cycles. Certainly each console fulfills different roles and markets; there won't be one overall winner. What's more interesting at the moment is that the 360 sales have just rocketed in Japan.

2.5 times that of the PS3. Sold out. Stock due in September ... some time.

The weird bit is that the sales just kicked up out of the blue. There are some worthy Japanese games (Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of Vesperia, Star Ocean announced) and it seems to have created a critical mass for the 360.

If we flip to the PS3 side, FFX was the PS2 flagship game and FFXII dragged and dragged until the PS3 had virtually come out (which messed up sales I imagine). By then the deal was done for the FF franchise.

More clever is that SE seems to have broken the shackles, at least internationally. Nationally I suspect some clever financing deals have been done by MS for the rest of the catalog. Cheaper licensing, maybe some investment.

Making games COSTS. A lot for A-list titles. So anything that can be done behind the scenes either in development or finance can dictate the market direction.

I wouldn't sweat it though. The PS3 and 360 both have merit. When Sony get their head in the game, shave the price down to something sane and do some deals things could change.

Within 18 months you could see the shoe completely on the other foot.

As the subject of KH3 was raised things get more polluted. Disney and Sony are Goliaths and both probably share media distribution networks (never checked). Politics have much more of an influence. Disney would love as many different platforms as possible but I suspect the business relationships between them, Sony and SE are quite sordid.

Certainly fun to watch. Bring on the competition and give me the Japanese games I want to play. Anything that stops cartels or the cycle of SE remakes has got to be good for the consumer.

vtraveller

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: PS3 and Wii actually came out a year too earlier IMO 360...2 years too earlier. The last gen was still pumping out great games when these machine arrived. there potential not fully maximized.

I like where you're going but I feel like the 360 and Wii came out when they felt they had to; their last generation consoles were sinking so I don't think they had much of a choice, unless they wanted to sit around for an year or two while Sony ate up the entire market. I think the PS3 was the only one that came out an year too early, but they didn't have a choice but to keep up with the competition. We could have easily continued gaming solely dependent on last gen consoles for at least a few more years and that's something you still see people doing.

everybest

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: To elaborate on your last point, the multimedia and online functionalities in the 360 and PS3 are what I feel going to make Microsoft and Sony winners in the long run.

Yes, the Wii may be "winning" in terms of hardware sold, but I haven't seen such a "winner" in a gaming generation being so disregarded by most gamers before; hardware is the only metric which the Wii is leading, and if you're a gamer that's actually a negative, as it prevents price drops, attracts crap (games), and stops innovation. That the "right response" to these issues is by Nintendo releasing Wii HD a year or two later should piss off more gamers.

Sony and Microsoft, on the other hand, are battling for your living room, to replace your DVD player, DVR, Apple TV, and cable box (maybe your HTPC too?). As consumers, we should be happy that all these functions are looking to be consolidated into one device, and even as gamers we do use all these other services - as evident by the video marketplace and how excited people are for auto Youtube uploads and Halo 3 videos. As long as the games don't suffer (arguably what Sony did w/ the PS3's dev. environment and expensive Bluray player), I'm all for including more multimedia stuff in current and future consoles.

Datheron

@everybest: Really? You don't like the hastily-designed 360 hardware itself was a year too early?

For the PS3, I feel like it was a failure on Sony's part to not hand out dev. kits sooner and finalize system specs from the get-go. Granted, they're being pushed into developing stuff like Trophies and SIXAXIS from Microsoft and Nintendo respectively, but we see now how hard it is to shoehorn features after the system itself is released, with inconsistent support across the board. That, along with longer development cycles, made the PS3's first year terrible.

The Wii, in its current state, really could have come out any time, the sooner the better for Nintendo obviously. Games don't have to take that HD leap in dev. time, and the Gamecube was on life support so it wouldn't make sense to keep it any longer than they needed to finalize the Wii's launch titles and system specs.

What Strider was saying makes sense from a historical perspective; it really sucks that the GC and XBox only lasted 4 years.

Datheron

Can a "blip," by definition, be "massive?"

mdelcomyn

SONY still has a FF exclusive, so it doesn't really change anything. In fact in Japan they have *2 exclusives. It turned out not to be a as big of a deal once Versus was official.

Mongoosekun

Why does it seem like Kataku fuels flame wars? This headline is great example.

Xtreme_Hindu_Cow

@everybest: in that regard i wish they would have. only now are hdtv starting to come down to reasonable prices. I hate M$ for starting the war too soon. But i also hate Sony for pushing out the ps3 before it was ready. Hence. the war continues.

Xtreme_Hindu_Cow

I don't think it's a big loss for Sony seeing as how it's Square-Enix (not the once great Squaresoft) making ff13. The ff games stopped being good after the ps1 (as far as consoles go). Plus, it doesn't matter if it's on 360 because people who wanted a PS3 for ff13 already have it, it's still exclusive in Japan (you can also import it thanks to PS3 being region free), and it will just sell more on the PS3 (despite it being another crappy ff game by Square-Enix).

They have nothing to worry about.

DNAgent

@carrliadiere: You're making a huge logical mistake in forgetting that most of the big hitting games are also available on PS3. 360 has roughly Halo 3 and Gears of War. Every other big name game is also on PS3 or coming to PS3.

For me, it was a matter of value. Yes, the PS3 may cost more but the upgrades are worth it. Take the $299 360. The wireless adapter for it is roughly $89.99. Now your 360 has cost you $389.00. Upgrade to a 120gb HD and that'll cost you another $179.00. You're now at $568, just $20 shy of the $599 PS3 (which will soon come with 160gb). We won't even mention the fact that you get a sweet blu-ray player in the deal.

As for the whole FFXIII mess, I really think the gaming media outlets are making a bigger deal than the supposed fanboys are. I personally don't care if a game is multiplatform as long as I can play it on the system I have. Seriously, it's really not that big of a deal. However, like someone else mentioned, I am a bit annoyed about the simultaneous release. There's no reason why PS3 owners should have to wait for the XBox 360 version except that Microsoft paid tons of money for it to happen that way.

NCTintedBlue

I'll happily "Meh" with him. The PS2 Final Fantasy games were a disappointment.

MattB

@teeps1981: "I dont see why number of disks would be an issue. Its either wait through mandatory installs and slower load times on PS3 or stand up and swap discs every so often".

That's like saying, why have a big dick when you could just have 4 small ones you can switch through every 20 minutes during sex.

Mr.Bates