editorial
Come Mount My Blade, Baby
Posted by Kotaku US Edition at 4:00 AM on August 28, 2008
Mount & Blade is like that quirky girl who sits behind you in art class - you don't talk to her because you're afraid the much-hotter girl who sits next to her won't talk to you if she sees you talking to the quirky girl. The much-hotter girl in this case is The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, with its uber-amazing graphics and wide-open story land of medieval fantasy fun. Mount & Blade, like that quirky girl, has very little to do with Oblivion beyond the fact that they're the same gender. It too, is a wide-open adventure for PC, but the similarities stop there as Oblivion persists in creating epic fantasy while Mount & Blade focuses on recreating realistic 14th century life.
Scared off already, huh? Shame on you; the quirky girl always has a great personality.
Mount & Blade's personality has had nearly eight years to grow into the in-depth medieval sim it's become today (currently running on a near-final .9-something version). You might not get any of that if you were to look at the beta version currently online (using a way-older version); the chunky graphics might turn you off before you even gave the game a chance. But from its humble origins as a realistic sword fighting combat simulator, Mount & Blade has evolved into a deep game with a rich, dynamic setting tied to some very boss gameplay mechanics.
It's the 1300s in some parallel version of Europe called Calradia, and you're a wandering rogue/disgraced noble/dirty peasant out to make your fortune the way people did back then: the sword. The overall game has a skeleton plot about something to do with war between two Calradian countries - but the end "goal" for the game is for you to gather your own army and create a fief. That, for me, is a check in the "good" box - Oblivion gave me some houses, but Mount & Blade gives me a freaking castle.
...If I can take it, that is. After some time spent in beta and an interview with developer Armağan Yavuz, I got the idea that Mount & Blade won't be holding my hand through each skirmish, siege and battle the game throws at you. You pick up a scant tutorial in the basics of fighting: blocking, swinging, shooting arrows and mounted combat. And after that, you're on your own. You do level up as you go around completing missions given to you by the nobility and killing the odd vagabond who tries to jump you; but no amount of XP or gold will buy you superpowers or the most amazing weapon ever. You've got master combat through practice, earn the respect of your NPC posse so you can send them out to do battle, and pillage your way to that castle. So add another check to "good" because this means it doesn't matter how many levels I gain in the game; I'm only going to be as good as I learn to be. And I get to pillage - big plus.
Yavuz talked a bit about his inspiration to create Mount & Blade. He and his wife both have a thing for history and there weren't really any games out there that recreated the medieval period all that well (at least not without adding dragons and magic and stuff). Yavuz started out with just a basic combat sim - tweaking the mechanics so you dealt more damage when moving during a strike, and having the AI counter your block if you held down the block button instead of waiting for it to attack you. From there, an online community sprung up like so many mushrooms and the developers reached out to them, giving them mod tools to make their own additions to the game. Turns out Yavuz liked some of the modders so much, he hired them on as writers and programmers - and this is where the game began to evolve some kind of plot.
Creating your character is a lot like Oblivion - moving sliders this way and that way, choosing a class and allotting skill points and so on. But instead of starting off at the centre of an epic story in some dungeon that's about to get attacked by red-robed ninjas, Mount & Blade drops you into the middle of Calradia with nothing but a weapon, a horse and a shield. The world map is huge, providing plenty of places for you to travel.
I found all that freedom almost overwhelming, but after I went into a town and talked to a lord to receive a quest, I was on familiar territory. I went where the lord told me to go and talked to some peasants to find the guy he wanted me to find. This guy didn't want tobe found, so he took a few swings at me with his sword and I put a crossbow bolt in his chest - but he still kept coming and I found out the hard way that you can't reload a crossbow while you're running away (no wonder France had trouble in The Hundred Years' War).
After getting "knocked unconscious," I wound up on my horses back, half-sliding out of the saddle somewhere on the edge of the town. Most my life bar was gone and some quest text told me I had failed. I'm pretty sure you can go back and re-try the quest if you talk to the lord again; but I got jumped by some bandits on my way back and died again. This is where that NPC posse would have come in handy - I can make them do all the fighting and just hang out in the back, feathering the bad guys with crossbow bolts and healing my party with mad first aid skills (not magic spells).
The realism in Mount & Blade was inspired by Sid Meier's Pirates! and by the novels of Bernard Cornwell. Sid Meier's famous game did away with the normal type of adventure plot and let you carve your own fate out of the seven seas; which is pretty much the same thing you'll be doing in Mount & Blade, only with horses instead of boats. Cornwell's books (all bazillion of them), are gritty historical fiction pieces that cover everything from Napoleonic captains to Viking conquests. I'm actually a fan of Cornwell - playing Mount & Blade reminded me so much of one of his books, that I brought it to the interview. I showed Yavuz my copy of The Archer's Tale and was rewarded with an excited squeal more appropriate to an 8-year-old girl than a developer.
But cut Yavuz some slack; he's living his dream. He wanted to make a game that was realistic and he won a fan base. His fan base expanded his game and he won Paradox Interactive as a publisher. He wants to bring the world Mount & Blade and thanks to Paradox, he will.
So even if the game looks ugly to you and you'd rather be off screwing the hot girl playing Oblivion, I defy you to say there isn't depth in this game after completing just one mission. Go check out the official site for more details and maybe hit up Wikipedia for some background on the factions (because there are a lot). Mount & Blade will be on shelves September 16 - and keep your eyes peeled for an announcement about digital downloads...
And for the record, quirky girls are always dynamite in the sack.

Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
There are currently no AU comments for this post.
TheCleaningGuy
Posted 4:36 AM 28/8/08
This looks cool. Shame I don't have the laptop specifications to run the "quirky girl"...
TheCleaningGuy
Silverbackne
Posted 4:33 AM 28/8/08
@Agnates: I agree with this entirely.
Don't let the "realism" thing scare you guys away. This is not the Red Orchestra of ye olde sword & shield games.
The combat is ridiculously simple, you can get through most encounters by telling your men to hold or charge at the right moments, and the whole party recruiting/equipping thing is very basic.
It's a great game mainly because the combat is so damn visceral (charging your horse past a running enemy and hitting them in the face with a sword feels like something out of Braveheart. At the end of each scrap the battlefield is littered with corpses, some of which look like pincushions with all the arrows and whatnot) and its fun to keep adding different mixes of soldiers to your ranks while upgrading your character with helpful but realistic gear (no stupid glowy RPG swords).
The only thing M&B really needs is a better-focused campaign, or at least more response from competing AI based on how many villages, castles etc. you capture.
The last build I played was still a very fun sandbox, but to be honest, there's not much feeling of accomplishment or acknowledgement from the game world that you're rising in power.
I wish the AI resembled something like Galactic Civilizations, where general communication and military/diplomatic responses to your actions seem very believable.
Silverbackne
CukyDoh
Posted 4:31 AM 28/8/08
Oh, and one final comment: The mounted combat is EPIC. Best system attempt in any game I've played in ages.
CukyDoh
Human Bomb
Posted 4:29 AM 28/8/08
That quirky girl probably looks great sans clothes while that popular girl might have more than a few scars round the areas her parents for some reason helped pay for.
@jettokisora: Hot librarian glasses = freak in the sack.
Human Bomb
Xagest
Posted 4:29 AM 28/8/08
So... Barbie Horse Adventures 2?
Xagest
CukyDoh
Posted 4:28 AM 28/8/08
Been playing this game on and off since its first release years ago. Graphically it is pretty lacking, but the mechanics are VERY solid and makes for some incredible gameplay.
Practice makes perfect is totally true in this game as said above, and your'll need to learn how to fight. Commanding armies is good fun too, and use of good tactics can make all the difference.
Also, tonnes of mods make for huge replayability. I spent a few months ages ago and replaced half the weapons with replicas of Lineage II's equipment. Made one hell of a fantasy universe!
Play and you won't be disapointed if you like this genre of game. Just wait 'til you hit your first siege battle!
CukyDoh
Capitalist_Bagel
Posted 4:28 AM 28/8/08
Combat in this game is awesome and has a pretty impressive sense of scale. My main beef is that the orders system hasn't really gone anywhere since like the .6 era. You should be able to give mounted and non mounted troops different orders.
Also, for whatever reason I can't run the game with dx9. Taleworlds' only fix is to run the game in dx7. Hopefully the final will fix this.
Capitalist_Bagel
jettokisora
Posted 4:26 AM 28/8/08
Oh, come on! Mount & Blade is the quirky girl with the hot librarian glasses. Oblivion is popular girl who spends most of her weekends drunk and spread eagle.
jettokisora
Seita
Posted 4:26 AM 28/8/08
+ Watch video
look at the mounted portion. simply awesome. 1:20+.
Seita
Krondonian
Posted 4:23 AM 28/8/08
@Agnates: Exactly. I think of it as a first person Total War.
(Not like the console games Creative Assembly did, though).
Krondonian
Krondonian
Posted 4:22 AM 28/8/08
@DBrown4840: It's not a sim. Not in the sense of a racing or sports sim or that stuff.
You can basically go around looting villages and getting into battles with brigands/armies/peasants.
You can hop on a horse and decapitate swathes of enemies, or try shooting them with a bow from 100 metres.
Not realistic, but damn fun.
Krondonian
teeuwen
Posted 4:21 AM 28/8/08
one of the more enjoyable things about this game is picking off people with your ranged calvary and then sending your melee infantry in to finish them off.
That and the cheering at the end of a battle when you win.
teeuwen
Agnates
Posted 4:18 AM 28/8/08
@DBrown4840: Maybe you're guessing the target consumer all wrong, since, you know, this is relatively realistic and does away with magicks and all that. Though, maybe you should try it before you condemn it because while it's more realistic than the likes of Oblivion or other shallow fantasy RPGs, it's still a damn fun game with the best weapons based combat system deviced yet, especially when mounted.
Think of battles like Medieval II: Total War except you're in the heart of the action with your army instead of ordering from above as an unseen God.
Agnates
BloggyMcBlogBlog
Posted 4:18 AM 28/8/08
Sometimes that quirky girl puts out. Never eliminate your options man.
BloggyMcBlogBlog
Seita
Posted 4:18 AM 28/8/08
I've always been fascinated by the medieval era, yet the best I could get were games riddled with magic and myths. My only fix for anything historically accurate were restricted to shows on the History Channel and big-boy picture books in my middle school library.
I will give this a try, I hope the bathrooms are as dirty as they are in the books.
Seita
dead_red_eyes
Posted 4:17 AM 28/8/08
Wow, this sounds pretty nice. Might have to give this a go!
dead_red_eyes
AssassinTRIP
Posted 4:16 AM 28/8/08
I have a feeling this game is going to be like banging a fat chick. Fun till you get caught mounting.
AssassinTRIP
Agnates
Posted 4:16 AM 28/8/08
The realism in this game inspired by Pirates? Everything other than the game's realism is inspired by it from where I'm seeing it. If anything, a much better comparison than Oblivion for this game is that it is Pirates! except on medieval lands, realistic, and with actual gameplay depth. There's just so much to do, and you slowly discover it at your own pace, with so many neat little touches popping up all over the place.
The game gets repetitive as you end up more and more powerful but once the Pirates esque retirement conditions and options are more fleshed out it'll make for a more compelling experience, it's basicaly neverending at the moment and no matter how much depth is included you can imagine some players will crave for a little more focused, guided gameplay instead of the wide open sandbox (which I love, and have only grown tired of after a couple of years of playing this, ha...).
Agnates
DBrown4840
Posted 4:13 AM 28/8/08
Hhhmmmm "focuses on recreating realistic 14th century life", no thanks, pass. While the analogy is cute I can't see this quirky girl as anything other than a self absorbed prude. I mean WoW is ugly and look at all the action she gets, its not so much the looks as it is the concept.
Reality simulators are best kept to the sports crowd cause the fantasy people (I'm guessing the target consumer here) are not interested in reality.
DBrown4840
Krondonian
Posted 4:11 AM 28/8/08
I got the demo when Stuart posted about it before. Since then I have the full game.
I was a peasant, who grew up in gangs and is now on a quest for revenge...though not sure what I'm avenging.
Anyway, I'm a level 20ish horse riding bearded knight, a Vassal of the Kingdom of Nords, and own Jamiche Castle after an epic seige with 3 Rhodok Lords.
It was a 300-esq 40 vs 400 battle which I endured until finally I held my stronghold.
It's got a deep combat system and is great fun. A hearty recommendation. Especially as buying it pre-release means you get it cheaper, earlier, and still get the full retail version with no extra cost.
(As a side note, I thought the graphics were pretty nice. I have an AMD Sempron 2800+, GeForce 6600 and 1.5GB RAM- a machine utterly incabable of running Obilvion- and it runs along nicely).
Krondonian
Rykon
Posted 4:08 AM 28/8/08
And Two World would be the ugly bug infested friend that I still look back and wonder why i even bothered. I think I'll give this one a try too. Here comes another drunken one night stand Mount & Blade.
Rykon
Dark_Jon
Posted 4:05 AM 28/8/08
Shame on you comparing Mount & Blade to Oblivion!
Dark_Jon
SegevRaz
Posted 4:58 AM 28/8/08
Anyone who runs away from this game because of the graphics, there are some addons and mods that really improve the graphics.
Playing M&B with HDR and higher-res textures is not really bad, let alone the awesomeness of the gameplay.
So if the graphics hold you back, these mods and instructions on how to get them to work can be found in taleworlds.com's Forums.
SegevRaz
Switch0025
Posted 4:55 AM 28/8/08
The only reason people say this game is realistic is because it doesn't have knights wearing oversized, colorful armor and shooting fireballs while riding a lizard-penguin-badger thing. This game is easy to get into and has, as others have said, one of the most amazing combat systems ever conceived.
Switch0025
Strider817
Posted 4:42 AM 28/8/08
Wow, this is totally up my ally! I can't wait to get home and give this thing a try. I loved Oblivion, and with the mods, it gathered alot more realism to it, but it was still lacking. I also love Dwarf Fortress because of the random generation and the freeform gameplay. This seems like an awesome blend of the two!
Strider817
F22
Posted 4:40 AM 28/8/08
i think the so-so graphics actually adds to the experience, to the bleakness of that era; i always laughed at those old 50's movies about the American frontier, with the women in log cabins with perfect makeup and clear skin - this seems to be keeping it real, in a dirt-under-the-fingernails-for-god-knows-how-long kind of way.
F22
mitsoxfan
Posted 4:38 AM 28/8/08
Had this game for years. The mod community is up and down, through there are several out there (until updates hit) that transform the game a bit and make it a lot more enjoyable.
It's not a system hog, and the horse combat is, IMO, unequaled. Bethesda could take some queues, though they'd probably just screw it up.
Great game, worth the pittance it costs to purchase, and it's always got a good stream of new content coming in from the community.
Worth a play in my book.
mitsoxfan
Omnimon
Posted 4:37 AM 28/8/08
@TheCleaningGuy: Size does matter. :/
I watched the vid in comments, and it's totally not my thing, I'll pass.
Omnimon
PapaBear434
Posted 5:24 AM 28/8/08
@SagatSon:
This, folks, is why you shouldn't post while drunk and/or angry.
PapaBear434
SagatSon
Posted 5:22 AM 28/8/08
(1) Likening games to girls is trite, sexist, and juvenile. Grow up.
(2) "Mount & Blade" is more interesting than any supposedly "medieval" game released in years. Fuck this WoW/Diablo/Everquest/Elder Scrolls myth and magic crap--it's all the same Tolkein derivative flash-bang bullshit.
I'll take a sword, a horse, and some fucking men over a half-elf necromancer with auto-regen faerie wing boots and a +10 sword of mild calamity ANY day.
Please god let this come to Mac.
SagatSon
Blue Oyster Cultist
Posted 5:21 AM 28/8/08
I've never heard of this! Why oh why do I find out right before Fallout 3 is released?? Damn my luck.
When someone is finally able to marry Oblivion style play with Total War style scope, then we will have a game! This sounds like a step in the right direction.
Blue Oyster Cultist
PapaBear434
Posted 5:21 AM 28/8/08
Hell, this game sounds kind of interesting. I'm gonna have to keep an eye out for it.
PapaBear434
Turambar
Posted 5:19 AM 28/8/08
I played the game a good 2 years ago and was pleasantly surprised at how fun it was. Well, for a time anyways until masses of enemy crossbowmen made me dread venturing anywhere. If they refined the combat abit then this would be a great game indeed. Also, I don't think "recreating 14th century life" would be the best way to put it. Just 14th century combat would be more like it (thought I suppose most don't think of anything else other than knights and swords when they think the high middle ages).
Turambar
Agnates
Posted 5:18 AM 28/8/08
@Silverbackne: Take up a quest to restore power from an usurper to a "rightful" kind/queen. You get enough reaction there, it almost feels like a "story" mode, and it's much more fun than bowing to an established king and doing his quests since you do it at your own pace rather than be told to follow some lords around.
You get to slowly take over the land, try and convince enemy lords to betray the king and join your cause, decide who gets the castles, cities and villages, etc. I won't spoil everything, but I think it's the best campaign quest line offered in the game.
Agnates
Erwin
Posted 5:18 AM 28/8/08
The quirky girl is always cooler. Fuck the hot girl (literally if you must), but the quirky one is awesome and way underrated, hot or not. Even then, often the quirky girl is beautiful in more than one way. I hope this extremely corny analogy holds up, because this game certainly has my interest.
Erwin
Agnates
Posted 5:13 AM 28/8/08
@Capitalist_Bagel: You are able to do that. Try using one of the "Infantry! Hear me!" - "Cavalry! Hear me!" - "Archers! Hear me" commands first, THEN use the actual order you want the given unit to do.
Agnates
Agnates
Posted 5:11 AM 28/8/08
I would like to note for people to please ignore the gameplay videos posted by the community for anything but a most basic representation of the game. The sandbox aspect is never shown, only the combat, and it's usually at low difficulties, against shitty enemies, with uber powerful player characters. With a decent difficulty and proper damage settings you never play like that and do rely a lot on your army rather than take out 100s of enemies yourself. Even a stray arrow can sometimes kill you if you get unlucky and it lands in your eye socket during a skirmish like that.
Agnates
rdj
Posted 5:44 AM 28/8/08
@SagatSon: BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Anywho, it sounds interesting, though I found Oblivion to be too unfocused for a singleplayer game. Worth a try at least.
rdj
godot
Posted 5:43 AM 28/8/08
HELLO...
my name is
godot
...and I have been addicted to Mount&Blade for 3 1/2 years.
godot
AllegraStreit
Posted 5:36 AM 28/8/08
Sounds good. If you check their site, they have a try before you buy, beta feature. I'm gonna give it a whirl to see if the mechanics are good.
The comparison to girls is valid. That's not to say that all pretty girls don't have depth, or vice versa. Gender relations are the fundamental experience in life.
Reducing gender relationships to "banging the hot girl", is trite, sexist, and juvenile. Comparing games to girls is not.
AllegraStreit
AssassinTRIP
Posted 5:33 AM 28/8/08
@PapaBear434: Or on your period.
AssassinTRIP
Shawn
Posted 6:17 AM 28/8/08
I just downloaded and tried this over a lunch hour because of this article. The game is free up to level 6 and so far I actually quite like it. I stopped in a little hole of a village and recruited 3 dudes to ride with me. Then when we got jumped by bandits we rode them down like dogs. Well, 2 of my dudes died. But the dude who lived and I rode them down like dogs. Quite fun and definitely a sandbox. So if you need linear hand holding it won't work out for you. I'm off to raise my prison keeping skill so I can enslave some bandits and sell them for fun and profit!
Shawn
Shrinkydinks
Posted 6:12 AM 28/8/08
@SagatSon:
Gotta say, I'm female and not offended by this in the slightest. I thought the analogy was really funny and seemingly appropriate.
I'm not really interested in the game though. Doesn't sound like my kind of thing.
Shrinkydinks
Mupp
Posted 6:05 AM 28/8/08
One of the greatest moments were when my king was captured and i snuck behind enemy lines and managed to enter the prison deep withing the castle he was held captive in.
He told me he wanted me to keep things running until he was released, and so i did.
A few weeks later he managed to escape not knowing my lust for power had made a rather impressive foothold.
So i grabbed a few of my best men and awaited the kings return in a nearby forest and slayed him before anyone knew of his freedom.
And so i reigned for many a day. >:)
Mupp
Terrorsaur.
Posted 6:25 AM 28/8/08
I was playing this right now. It was fun but I put everything on the hard difficulty and I must say blocking is a B!tch.
Some guy came lunging at me with a spear so I blocked it, it pushed me back and he twacked me in the head with it.
NIIIce.
Terrorsaur.
McPaper
Posted 7:02 AM 28/8/08
Mount and Blade is an awesome game.
The beta version is free for the most part and light on your computer so everyone should give it a shot.
McPaper
seoman49
Posted 6:59 AM 28/8/08
I started playing M&B 2 weeks ago, and played for 2-3 hours before buying a license in order to break the lvl 6 cap of the demo/free version. I'm now level 14, and plan on playing it until I am the ruler of the land!
The horse ridding is just the best out there. The mix of RPG elements, economics, strategy and action gives the game a very healthy depth.
Looove it!
seoman49
Captain_Fitz
Posted 8:09 AM 28/8/08
Agreed, on of the greatest experiences you'll ever have in your gaming life if leading a cavalry charge into enemy infantry. The most terrifying is having your horse killed in the middle of an enemies line with your own troops totally unable to help.
P.s. France technically won the The Hundred Years' War, so natch (i'm not French or anything; i just thought it should be known that the English got their arses handed to them).
Captain_Fitz
Silverbackne
Posted 8:03 AM 28/8/08
Anyone who digs indie PC games should really consider some of the other stuff on this list (it leads off with Mount & Blade). I read this last week and spent a good deal of time messing around with trial versions of Depths of Peril and Evochron Renegades...both of which are pretty awesome.
www.skorks.com/2008/08/top-indie-games-you-wouldnt-mind-paying-for/
Silverbackne
Blue Oyster Cultist
Posted 8:45 AM 28/8/08
@AssassinTRIP: Or on a Mac!
Blue Oyster Cultist
magictroll
Posted 8:41 AM 28/8/08
@Dark_Jon: Mount and Blade looks better than Oblivion ... or at least more fun.
magictroll
Morithain
Posted 9:06 AM 28/8/08
For the record, there are player mods that greatly improve the textures and lighting of M&B :)
But just to reiterate for those who missed it, this is NOT a fantasy game. There are no mages, no spellcasters, no demons, no magic, nothing. This is purely a realistic "knights in shining armor" game.
But it is hella-fun, definitely worth picking up.
Morithain
Arleas
Posted 8:50 AM 28/8/08
FOURTEENTH CENTURY - -YEAAAHHHHHHHHHSSSSSSS!
They should have stuck to a purely middle ages setting.
Arleas
drhojo
Posted 9:58 AM 28/8/08
I brought this game years ago for like $12, and I'm so glad I did. Easily one of funniest games I've ever played... I definitely recommend this to anyway even remotely interested.
drhojo
Yenzilla
Posted 9:25 AM 28/8/08
@godot: Where the hell have you been, man? I've been waiting here for years!
Yenzilla
AJ Glasser
Posted 9:21 AM 28/8/08
@Captain_Fitz: Key word "technically" - and in the beginning, they lost a lot of ground because they didn't have longbows - only crossbows. It took a whole generation for them to breed little boy archers strong enough to pull back a long bow and by then the fallout from the first 30+ years of the fighting had severely weakened both sides.
w00t history nerds!
AJ Glasser
AJ Glasser
Posted 9:18 AM 28/8/08
@PapaBear434: Actually, I was on my period when I wrote the article.
AJ Glasser
Mister Adequate
Posted 10:12 AM 28/8/08
@Yenzilla: God damnit I was beaten to the punch.
@Mupp: Ahahaha, really? You can do that? I downloaded the trial and have messed with it a bit, but that sounds epic. If the trial holds my attention I'll pick this up ;o
Mister Adequate
nitromic
Posted 10:28 AM 28/8/08
This game has some of the best gameplay ever. I bought this for cheap a long time ago and I love it. I added a mod for some muskets and it is awesome. There are many great mods for it, just make sure you get the one that increases the battle size. 150 man battles are AWESOME!
nitromic
Kapazza
Posted 12:55 PM 28/8/08
Alright so I downloaded and played for about 15 minutes before concluding it sucked. But, for some reason, I decided to try it again. I picked some different settings in the beginning and I've been hooked for the past 4 hours...haha.
Kapazza
SansSanity
Posted 6:54 PM 28/8/08
Has definitely appealed to me reading the comments people have left.
Will pick the demo tonight.
SansSanity
Protector one
Posted 8:25 PM 28/8/08
Mount the blade, stab with the horse.
Protector one
weables
Posted 4:16 AM 29/8/08
The intro took too long to get to the point with the analogy, so I got bored and moved to the next article. Just fyi. Intended as feedback on the article from my personal perspective, nothing more.
weables
GimmeCat
Posted 8:14 AM 30/8/08
wouw is he Turkish?
GimmeCat
ub
Posted 9:47 AM 30/8/08
@GimmeCat: good point
ub