i wont be to sore if they cant work this out, as my housemate is my biggest street fighter rival, oh so many drunken sf3 bouts

D-TRON

@ichiban1081: If that annoes you, you be the host then. That way it won't matter to you if the other guy has a slow connection. It will only mean he can't properly react to your moves, thus you will own him, it won't affect your game unless he disconnects, in which case I imagine you'll win by default. Unless that happens, you shouldn't even know he has lag problems. So, make good hosts people, that's all it takes to get rid of annoyances.

By the way, they use the word lag as in "latency" here, which is something you simply can't remove altogether. They're not saying you'll have stutters and shit like that, they're merely saying that for a game like SF, even a little latency can be a HUGE problem and they're right, at the same time they can't just solve it, all they can do is minimise the latency factor and then you just have to find people close to you to play with to minimise it further.

Agnates

It doesn't help that wireless networking has been marketed to no end, and many, many people are using wireless routers NOT up to the task for smooth online play. Go wired or go N if you MUST get wireless. Please don't flood the game lobbies with your craptastic linksys 54g routers.

Arlips

For anyone who has played SF4, how's the buffer on the game. The magic of VF is that it has a generous buffer- not just better netcode. SCIV has huge problems due to lack of buffer.

Sorting by connection is a great idea though, and NEEDED.

arstal

Capcom should just stop being clueless and contact the guys from GGPO to get a license for their online system wich is really good when it comes to the 2d fighting experience. The system certainly isn't perfect but it's almost completely lag free and it's a blast to play.

Lider

how the fuck can i play street fighter 4 with lag? FAILED.

ChinChinPaiPai

Give us the ability to weed out people with crap connections. They can simplify it on consoles by having the 1-5 bar and say no connections under 4 permitted or something of the sort. Maybe they also need to start showing peoples pings or dedicated servers atleast for ranked and tournement matches?

I just hate playing some people online in any game and it suddenly starts lagging then you ask them why. "Oh my little brother is using the computer or yeah im downloading from bittorrent" or something.

ichiban1081

I never had a problem playing One Must Fall over a 56k dial-up modem, yet the developers these days can't provide a lag-free experience with a 6+Mb connection? The word for today is: incompetent.

D00mM4r1n3

You mean, like the near-unplayable Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection Online? Does anyone else have MAD lag issues with the game?

chaos242

How come a game like Warhawk that was released a year ago to the day, had - and still has - seamless online play with 16 players?
While a relatively small fighting game with 2 players can't come close to that?

AndreasDahl

@Gnutslinger: That's not actually accurate. Have you seen the way some of those old-school 2-D fighters play on some of the emulators online? WAY better than any 3-D fighter I've ever seen. Most of them use a standardized set of instructions that have been tailor designed for 2-D fighters since the early 2000's. And the combination of lack of frames makes adjusting for lag issues much easier than some of the perfectly timed/animated 3-D fighters out there.

Mommar

I know eliminating (rather, heavily reducing) lag is a particularly difficult thing to do, especially when you're basing it on an already established/finished offline portion, but you would in this day and age that designers would realize that going IN to the project, if they're going to have online, they need to make the game manageable online BEFORE establishing the offline.

You can't just take any offline game and throw it online and expect it to work. You have to design these things from the outset with online play in mind, or you end up with terrible lag. This is what I suspect happened with Smash Bros, and probably with this as well.

TalKeaton

@doesntlikedede: yeah that makes no sense to me

Anyways, "no lag" fighting games are a myth in this era. On PS3 or 360, Live or PSN..VF5 was laggy as hell and as Sega said, 60fps is required as one frame of animation could be the difference between winning and losing. A laggy VF5 isn't even the same game. Soul Caliber 4 isn't much better on either console. When you find a great match with no lag, it's awesome but those matches are inconsistent unless you create a lobby and host...and then hope that you don't get someone in the room from Bangladesh or Guatemala.

Meh doesn't matter. I'm probably not going to buy SF4. Can I get a SF3 on PSN though?

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

i dun see what they can really do about it.
lag is always present; there's just "noticeable" lag and unnoticeable lag. playing online will always present some lag. the internets isn't quite at the level of awesomeness to give us a true lag-free experience and fighting games, which rely so much on timing, can suffer hard.

playing fighting games online is a good way to get strategies and just "socialize" with like-minded gamers.
but, it can do horrendous things to your execution and timing.

flight240

I noticed that 2d fighting games have much more lag issues then 3d fighers...Soul Calibur for example, runs pretty smoothe online. As for SF2 on Xbox live Arcade..well...forget about it.

Gnutslinger

So far Virtua Fighter 5 on the 360 has done it the "best" but none of these 3-D fighting games are really going to work all that great online for awhile. None of them have been working that great so far (though everybody loves to forget that when playing Smash Bros so they can come up with another excuse to dislike Nintendo.)

Mommar

If not why cant people just play at home with friends like normal folk. ;D

Witzbold

Funny, resistance was awesome online during that timeframe.

Maybe it was just the fact that there was Resistance and oblivion (and I think R6:V was just around the corner) and that was it.

boringjob2

"they've got replay functions and so forth"

Can someone explain this to me? I dont quite get it =/

doesntlikedede

HEY! CAPCOM! ggpo.net take a look at it :P

CockroachMan

OK, that block quote is totally nebulous at best. I'm going with bad translation. Anyway, I play the snot out of Brawl online, its the best way for me to have a challenging match. As far as lag goes, sure its annoying when the game stutters, but at least everyone is on a level playing field. And, to be honest, I've only had one really hideous connection in recent memory. I imagine things would be a tad easier for SFIV and SCIV since the matches are only 1 on 1. Of course, that is offset by the much more complicated button inputs, so I can't really say.

Question, how is SCIV online anyway?

@SS Ymer: I don't see any fault in your logic about what's happening during a fighting game. The thing thats different between a fighting game and a shooter or racing game online is that the consoles can kind of "smooth over" what an opponent is doing if the info for their exact position and actions are lost for a moment due to lag. Basically the console makes an educated guess about where that player is going to be based on where they were going and kind of blends it into the real info once its available again. Most of the time you wouldn't notice this but in extreme situations you might see a person suddenly teleport or move unnaturally. This would kill a fighting game. You need to see every single frame of what your opponent is doing in a fighting game. Imgaine you were approaching Ken and then all of a sudden you're on your ass and he's at the top of a dragon punch. Not fun.

Ptolemy

But I hope they improve the SFIV quality, cause I want to play it online so bad...

lucasreis

I play with a wired connection and I had 6 fights with lag problems out of more than 200 times I played SCIV online. and I live in Brazil while most of my opponents live in the USA. I don´t have a lot of problems playing online on Xbox Live. Wired connection does help a lot.

lucasreis

Just for the record, I've literally never experienced noticeable lag while playing SC4 online. It's the only fighter ever I can say this about.

dowingba

I don't see how a 3d fighting game would be more laggy than a 2d one as it would probably be the same mechanics. All animation is handled client side just the opponents action trigger needs to be sent in both cases.
I really hope they figure this out as that is the major draw for me, playing with my buddies on our own couches. It doesn't beat having us all on the same couch but it would be cool.

penetraitor

While I understand that many would love the freedom of playing live whenever desired, I've always loved Street Fighter for the tension it can bring to a room of friends. Friends who suddenly stop chatting and suddenly become quiet, focused bitter enemies.

Rarely do other games do this for me.

Zootroy

@Witzbold: To be honest I prefer it that way. Be it fighting,sports or co-op. The trash-talk and comraderie is infinitely better. I guess people want online for accessibility and the fact that their's internet anonymity. Nothing better for social-inept people to hurl insults when you know the other person can't hit you...

@Gnutslinger: I think I read somewhere that 2D fighters generally is a bit hard to do online. The sprites and hit detection are way harder to implement at the necessary speed than the 3D ones...Don't quote me on that of course. :D

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: I think it's better if you do know where the person you're playing against is from. The whole latency and distance certainly adds more to the complexities...

Oh and a bit of info I got from someone capable with XBL (won't say what he does though). He said if you're getting a bad connection from time to time (IE: Lag) Try switching Locales. Seems like everytime you do that, the 360 switches servers...

excaliburps

@Lider: Hasn't the rumor about GGPO dev(s) secretly working on the SFVI/SSFIITHD online feature debunked? I wouldn't believe how a forum petition got them there. Also, what sort of bothers me is how GGPO works as the middleman for P2P gameplay (I might be mistaken), but when KOF98' was playable, all lag-hell broke loose.

stretch

@doesntlikedede: I would like to know this too.

And just to make sure I understand. The reason that playing at full 60 fps online is because then the console (I'd like to apologize in advance for my lack of any proper terminology) has to detect and send all information about the player's currently button-presses 60 times each second. This must then be picked up the other console on the other side of the globe and be interpreted as hadoukens and fatalities by the other console again 60 times each second. At least if the should play as smoothly as it should. Is this right?

But what is the difference with shooters then? Do none of these play at their full frame-rate online? I mean the action is usually pretty smooth there and there must be way more information being sent back and forth there? I mean with all the bullets flying around, players dashing about, who shot what, what weapons have been picked up and in some cases even whose got blood on them. What am I missing here?

SS Ymer

@Crawl to China:

playing against the computer usual makes one used to computer patterns. while a human opponent, may have there own patters, they have discretion on when to implement them, and are generally "smarter" about what they do.
computer controlled opponents in fighting games (from my experience) dun match up to real human opponents.

but on the other side of the coin, finding someone to play a fighting game with you face to face isn't too difficult. it is however, difficult to find someone who is as dedicated/skilled/motivated as you. you really have to reach out there to go to tournaments and meet up other players.

that's the reason so many flock to online play. it's pretty damn convenient to play a friend over the internets, rather than driving over to his house. but as i stated before, i say online is best for strategies and tactics; a good way to feel out how human opponents are, but a not so good way to work on execution and timing.

flight240

I have never had any lag issues with VF5 (360 version, obviously) and SC4 :S

Besides, it's not like you will need exact timing to beat an opponent of SF4. All people will be doing is spamming hadoken's anyway.

BristolRuss

Eh, I don't see online as a big draw for fighting games. It's only 2 players. How hard is it to find one friend to play with you? Failing that, is playing against the computer really that bad?

Crawl to China

@AxelFury: I didn't think so. Online SCIV infuriated me so bad... even at 5 bars, the lag was rough. The few matches I played, I don't think I've lost my temper that bad in years.

SSF2HDR beta is the only online fighting game that I've played that works online.

Madeira

@penetraitor: No, hit detection (just one component of a fighting game... framrate/timing, as covered by fulgore66 is another one) are completely different between 3-d and 2-d fighting games. Hit detection on a 2-D fighting game is just a very basic box, or series of boxes, around the fighter. In 3-D you've got all sorts of crazy angles where you can make contact. It makes the game far more complex. As a matter of fact one of the developers was talking about the trouble they had balancing the hit detection in SF4 because the characters were making contact and taking damage in 3-d but because of the angle it was immediately apparent at a 2-d fighter. Take the severely complex models for hit detection combined with the single frames of animation and pixel perfect detection of hits makes determining who attacked when and who really gets in the shot/hit ambiguous.

Mommar

When he said it was going to be a huge problem, he meant that it's a big design challenge. People are interpreting it as if he said it's going to suck in the finished product.

I mean, it's entirely possible that it will, but give the guy a break.

Most developers would have said "No problem, it'll be butter-smooth" regardless of whether or not they could deliver.

tentaclesex

@Arlips: funny you say that I host games on my linksys 54g using wireless or just join in on other games and always use PnP for voice chat and never have had anyone complain. Setting a QoS rule to force the ps3 to take the highest bandwidth priority usually fixes issues like that. Plus a lot of wireless issues are mostly signal issues, upgrade the antenna or buy a wireless repeater. It also helps I have 20mbps and 2mbps up if I host a warhawk game it isn't all that rare for me to host 16 people by myself (the game does a test before you can host and specifies your max ability) while playing at the same time.

lilaliendog

@TalKeaton: It's not merely difficult to get lag-free online gaming -- it's physically impossible over any distances worth measuring.

Sure, lag doesn't matter for turn-based games, button-mashers (DoA/SC/etc.) or FPSes, but for games that demand timing and skill as does SF, there's just no way around it.

To make an SF that isn't affected by lag is to take away the very core of the game.

emag

@AndreasDahl: When you play an online action game like Warhawk the host (or server) can fudge things if someone has a poor connection. In the grand scheme of things in these games what your opponent is doing from second to second isn't all that important. With good net code and prediction algorithms you probably won't even notice.

In a fighting game with only two players everything is magnified. You can't have characters frezing and appearing somewhere else in the next frame. There just isn't room to fudge stuff.

agies

'(Well, neither did the PS3, really.)' oh come on now that is a low blow, the ps3 had like half a dozen titles with online at the time and only released with like a little over a dozen titles total.

lilaliendog

@SS Ymer: It has nothing to do with framerate. It is all about the latency between to points on the internet. 100ms is a pretty average ping for any randomly selected site on the internet (ping google.com for instance). That 1/10 of a second, which in a fighting game makes all the difference in the world. If the host doesn't know you've done an attack until 1/10 of a second after you did it, they host may have had the opportunity to do a move that he shouldn't have. So what does the game do to cover for it?

For FPS style games, latency can be hidden fairly well. You won't really notice if you take an extra sliver of damage that you didn't really see on screen because they blasted 100 rounds at you. You really can't compare any genre of game to fighting games (especially SF) when it comes to the perfect timing involved.

fulgore66

Soul Calibur IV did an amazing job on the network connectivity. I hope Capcom can pull it off.

AxelFury

sony likes to bullshit people!!

Desosav

I've gotten some very good games in VF5 online, but Calibur 4 has been really bad thus far. Lag is a problem this gen, probably will be next gen. I don't imagine there's a whole lot the developers or manufacturers can do, that this is a hardware infrastructure issue.

crewwolfy

@Ptolemy: but having a router does add latency..that's one more point it has to pass. The best gaming experience is to limit the number of equipment you have to go through...play plugging in directly helps.

karateka

Funny, I was playing 40 player online battles in Resistance during that time. On dedicated servers. On Playstation 3. PSN's incompetency is just a myth made up by 360 fanboys because I guess they're upset by the fact that they pay $50 a year to use their own machine as a host server and look at ads on their dashboard. Yes, I realize that Live has a few extra features, which are almost pointless with In-game XMB (cross-game invites? just send your friend a message on the XMB), but the PSN also has features that Live doesn't, such as dedicated servers, 6-person video chat, and most exclusives support more players in matches. So keep dreaming, fanboys, because the truth is that both online services have their advantages and disadvantages.

threeve

@Arlips: I think what you've stated is a popular misconception.

"It doesn't help that wireless networking has been marketed to no end, and many, many people are using wireless routers NOT up to the task for smooth online play. Go wired or go N if you MUST get wireless. Please don't flood the game lobbies with your craptastic linksys 54g routers."

WiFi
802.11b = 11Mb/s (thats megabits, not bytes. 1/8th of a MB)
802.11g = 54Mb/s
802.11n = 74Mb/s typical (it says 300Mb/s max)

These numbers are pointless. Only recently have cable providers offered anything higher than the max speed that 802.11b provides. My connection through Comcast Cable is 8Mb/s, and thats only downloads. Any data leaving my home doesn't even reach 1Mb/s of through put. Thats your bottleneck, not your router. What people don't understand is that b/g/n do not affect your internet experience in the least. What it does affect is the amount of time it takes for you to transfer files around on your home network.

The thing about wireless that IS a problem is the suspected interference they receive from cordless phones and in my case baby monitors. People need to turn that stuff off and not upload videos to youtube while they're playing games online.

Ptolemy

@Bone Structure: Thats not entirely accurate. 1 Frame can be the difference between neck and bone generally, reason being is that when patients are rushed into the ER (Emergency Realm -- not room) you have a very short timeframe to conduct alot of surgery. Proceedures can take up to an embelishing two-hundred overseconds ( -- not seconds), which can unfortunately lead to patient arrest, and

Bone Structure

@greyhoundbus: On the PSN, some are sony server based. But you also can serve games...such as warhawk, you can play on official sony servers or you are the server and people log onto your ps3 to play online games or you can play on other people serving games. It all depends on the game I guess.

karateka

with all the 3D fighters i've played online, i'd say i had the best experience with DOA4...

granted there was lag more often thsn not, but if you could find a good room, it would be gravy. SC4's pretty bad on both consoles... sometimes you find a good room with little lag, then all of a sudden you're disconnected for no apparent reason.

ChibiKyKiske

@AndreasDahl: 1 Frame can be the difference between winning and losing in a fighting game, whereas 1frame on something like an FPS, or really, anything else doesnt matter. Its becuase generally, timeing and frames are so crucial on Fighting games that what might be considered "good lag" in anything else is unacceptable in a fighting game

Bone Structure

There will always be lag because of distance for online games...Unless you're sitting next to each other don't expect that to be resolved anytime soon.

karateka

I've been using 2DFighter a lot recently online, and unless my connection to the other player is very poor, I really don't notice any lag at all. When the connection gets poor for whatever reason, it's more of a stuttering (like the old 8-bit/16-bit era slow-mo function of third-party controllers). That rarely happens, though.

GGPO or 2DF... Capcom needs to figure out what these guys are doing.

Both of these are peer-to-peer matchmaking apps. I'm not that familiar with current-gen consoles, so this may be a dumb question: Are XBox Live/PS3 Network game connections all strictly server-based or do they do P2P connections?

greyhoundbus

I've had only nominal issues with Soul Calibur IV online. In fact, there's only 1 or 2 games out of near 50 where I was dissatisfied with the performance. For being a Japanese developed game, the online interactions aren't half bad.

Anarchist_Gamer

@karateka: Now that's an interesting point. While I don't argue whether its true or not, I do question the practicality of it. What would I really gain from unplugging my router and thus, my entire network, and connecting my cable modem directly to my console. I'm sure there would be a tiny difference, but I'd be hard pressed to notice it. WiFi is just so easy. I don't need to worry about running another cable to my TV.

So, anyway, since I've strayed a bit through my last two posts and for the sake of staying on topic:

Street Fighter 4 online.

There, that should do it.

Ptolemy

@karateka: Ok, thanks. Sounds like P2P is possible then... as it should be.

I've got a router. I'm not an expert but I really don't see much, if any latency when I play online. I watch replays on 2DF and the ones between good players look tight, so I don't think the lag screws things up much for them either.

greyhoundbus

Just hope they can put some unnoticeable lag in there. Maybe I have been lucky but with the two fighting games I own (DoA4 and SC4) I have 1-2 laggy games out of every 10 or so, so I don't experience the frustration at all really.

R3load

capcom should give us free fios

jkingsowner

Funny, I remember playing DOA on the Xbox and I would never encounter lag in those games. Unless, I made a room with 8 people, then there might be some problems, but other than that, no lag issues.

If these companies can't get their online straight (I'm looking at you SEGA), then just take notes from Tecmo.

Soul Calibur got it right by making the room system with up to four players taking turns in the fight. Capcom needs to do the same with SF4.

@ Ichiban1081: You're absolutely right. There should be an option to weed out people whose connections are less than 4 bars. That would eliminate a lot of headaches, especially when someone jumps in at the middle of fight and lags the hell out of it.

animeman59

Meh, Street Fighter is the kind of game you place face to face with your friends then do a little dance in their face when you kick their ass.

Bricked

Unless you play SC4 by mashing out moves/strings, SC4 is NOT good online. If you don't have an awesome fiber/cable connection that gets you that best 5-bar connections all the time, it's impossible to break throws, block mid/low mixups, or really do near anything on reaction. Astaroth's db+[A]A or db+[A]B mixup becomes one of the best moves in the game just because of the half-second delay it takes to see and do anything online.

I also think Capcom needs to get with the guys that did GGPO. Or even with Sega. You CAN have playable fighters online with little (never gonna be zero) lag, but the netcode needs to be really really good. And Namdai and Capcom have so far done horrible jobs at it.

Seriously, look up GGPO for online 2D fighting games.

EComni

Wait a second, Soul Calibur 4 does an excellent job.

Spootythegameguru

@EComni: I must have a good connection then because on 4 and 5 bar games (which are the only games I'll play in) I have no problems countering grabs and avoiding mixups. I think the bars might be misleading though. Sometimes I get 3 bar style lag on 5 bar games while my 4 bar games are nearly flawless.

Is online as good as playing in person? Not even close, but it's not nearly as bad as everybody seems to make it out to be. That being said, the matchmaking system and game searching system needs an overhaul. If I'm not hosting it takes me a minute to find a game that doesn't give me the "this room is full" message on Standard Ranked :-P

Aeralindor

It really is terrible. The thing i looked forward to most growing up was tekken online then played tek5 dr and i thought it was the worste gaming experience of my life. I play fighting games at a world class standard (i have beaten some world number 1s of the years in tekken) and i have found that the only way for me to enjoy games as an adult gamner is to have online play (it is impossible to get friends over to my house...work...wife...london) and since fighting games are unplayable online at a decent level i cant play thyem. Why do online modes have to resemble the offline mode?why not have a seperate build of the game for online mode with scaled down graffics or whatever is needed. Arcades are dead.same room play is almost dead. And that is why FPS are the best thing online!

pinshot

@TalKeaton:

Good points all around.

DARTH_TIGRIS

I'm somewhat perplexed by the different experiences people seem to be having with VF5 and SCIV. For me, the max four bars or even 3 bars (and in one weird case, 1 bar) in VF gets me what seems a lag-free match, i.e. i press a button, and my character acts, at the same time they would in an offline match. OK, I'm sure there are milliseconds of lag in there that I don't notice, but in a good connection match my timing doesn't suffer at all really (my timing and reactions are certainly not tournament-level though, but if there is lag I'm not notiving then it is extremely slight indeed).

SCIV, on the other hand, 99% of the time my lag varies from half a second to like, 2 seconds. As I'm sure you're all aware, half a second is a huge detriment in a fighting game, and any moves I can block on reaction offline I just can't online, and I have to adjust guard impact timing and whatnot from match to match which is a big hassle. I play both on 360, but tried SCIV on my friend's PS3 and the connection was the same - and he has a very good connection (ping-wise - he used to be a higher level CS player).

I'm reading comments here though reporting the inverse expereince - bad VF5 lag and very good SCIV connections. Very odd. I'd certainly play SCIV online a whole lot more if it palyed as well as VF does for me. From my point of view if SF uses VF's online system it'll be dandy.

OddyKnocky

It's a simple technical limitation. You can smooth over laggy sections or insert AI moves, but that's neither fair nor true multiplayer. If your response time on to your opponent is 100ms, the delay on your moves will be at least that much.

fuchikoma

It's not how the game is made that's the problem. Online or offline game is the same thing...but passing the information of your keypress instantaneously is the problem. It has to travel distance and you cannot change that. Also every time it passes through a point..it adds a few milliseconds...Think of it like a relay race. The runners are your internet connection speed, and they can't go any faster than a certain point, but also, every time they pass the baton, it adds a fraction of a second because it takes time to do that. That's why online game will never be lag free...unless you run a network cable straight to your friends house where there are no hops then it would be almost lag free.

karateka

@Aeralindor:

Yeah, you must have a good connection. And no, I'm not being facetious. SC4 and other games with poor netcode put ALL performance on the quality of the connections rather than having code that accounts for acceptable lag and still tries to make the game appearing as lag-less as possible. Anecdotes are fine, but they're still anecdotes. The two major SC fansites have threads DEDICATED to people complaining about the online play. But of course they're peppered with people singing the game's praises because of their good connections/pings (where are you located geographically BTW? And who's your ISP?).

I have yet to encounter a 5-bar game and I only play 4-bars. The game is playable online (I still play it regularly, and have great success [/selfhorntooting]), but it's a completely different game. It's way more about prediction than reaction online (PSYCHIC gameplay). If I know a throw is coming, I can break it. If I don't, it's way too late to react even if I see the arm animation.

@pinshot:

I agree fully. The reason why Halo Wars MIGHT work as a good console RTS is because they built it from the ground up to be a console RTS. Almost all fighting games today are simply arcade/local games that tack on a shoddily implemented online component. The next great fighter needs to be built with online at the forefront. It'll probably be a bit slower than the normal 60 fps "every frame counts" stable, but I'll be more than willing to adapt for the sake of better competition and more of it.

To this day, I'm STILL a hardcore arcade goer and a hardcore fighting game fan. But I'm not naive anymore. Times have changed.

EComni

*shrug*

As long as fighting games rely heavily on timing, (and let's face it, One of the major aspects of the genre is about having VERY quick reflexes to sudden changes.) it simply won't work online unless you're playing next door to your opponent because electrons simply don't travel fast enough. Unless, of course, you slow the gameplay down enough that really fast reflexes aren't one of the focal aspects of the gameplay. But then you may as well be playing chess.

GnatB

Lag promotes button mashing :(. Unless you get a connection of 5 on a SC4 match, the lag can kill your game. GIs are almost impossible in connection 4 match.

Sinharvest

That's coz the Japanese suck at online. How come the BETA for Super Street Fighter 2 HD has ZERO lag? Coz it wasn't made by the Japanese, that's why.

MetalGearMax

If this one has lag, i bring my friends to my house and solve the problem, if not there´s always single player and that way at least i know the people who are insulting or screaming at me...

Daisuash

Solved problem, its called ggpo and it works great. Capcom get out of your ivory towers and look at whats out there. Fighting game netcode is SOLVED.

pogfreak

I can't wait to get his online...After watching my friend play SC4 online matches. I can't wait own some of those stale move noobs.

exkon

This discussion here is a little surreal.

On the one hand there commentators saying "as long as you're on the internet, there's lag, and that will screw up your fighting game precision".

On the other, we have people who play on GGPO (or 2DF like me) saying "LOL lag problem's been solved, Capcom needs to pull it's head out of the sand".

And then, we have people saying "Soul Cal and these other 3D fighters work fine on console online play".

So what's the mysterious problem here? Console networks? Routers? 2D? Gremlins?

Aaaaargh.

greyhoundbus

I don't know why SC4 is getting all the praise. The game browser for SC4 is crap and half the time it gives you a full game and you have to try again OVER AND OVER. I think all this online fighter lag talk is essentially whining. Fighting games are simple games comparatively and have way less data to send than most FPS games. Their programmers must of forgot how to program after rehash 3000 of fighter X.

l33tm3at

Fighting games are only really truly fun on a sofa with friends. They're party games, and I hate the idea of playing against anonymous strangers.

TearsandScreams

@karateka: that, and not everyone is on broadboand network.

@pogfreak: GGPO is def worth a look.

zanzibarlegend

@greyhoundbus: It's what people are willing to accept. Many posters want the same exact experience online as playing offline. They keep referring to FPS's but neglect to mention that FPS netcode does a hell of alot of guesswork and FPS programmers have had over a decade of netcode experience in making online gaming appear as seamless as possible. Also, in general FPS gamers keep up with their connections, keep their networks up to snuff, and regularly visit dslreports.com.

If you recall from the old-school FPS days, a tiny bit of lag was the difference between a headshot and winning a deathmatch game or losing from the other players headshot. Old-school FPS games were not for people with less than stellar connections. You lag, you lose.

Online fighting is still a relatively new area and many programmers are getting a handle on it. I have no doubt that future fighting games will seem as seamless as FPS are today. Most Fighting Game Afficiandos accept there is a difference in online play and adjust to it. Online play does not detract frome the one fundamental rule for Fighting Game Afficiandos: Playing to Win. If not, you might as well start using the lame old-school excuse of "my controller isn't working, that's why you won."

Tepoz

Dedicated Servers........Please!

Hellion86

I have no interest in playing this online. It's just not the same. Ever play Smash Bros. online? Without real people it stinks. There's plenty of better games for internet play.

Wolfers

But quake 2 was smooth on a 33.6 if you could find a good server (my ISP at the time ran their own quake 2 servers, that was awesome).

Witzbold: If not why cant people just play at home with friends like normal folk. ;D

Because plane tickets are expensive.

/old school friends are all over the country now

lordargent

I think Virtua Fighter 5 set the bar for what a online fighting game should play like. Sure the lobby system was very basic but I've played someone with a gray connection and hardly experienced any lag. Sega AM2 got that online code done right.

SuperSplashBro

I, personally, always enjoyed a head to head combat with friends. But I enjoy the online feature a lot. Me and my friends are all hard-workers nowadays, with busy schedules, and I can hardly seem them. I have an older brother but he doesn´t play videogames so I always depended on people coming to my house to play with me. With online I can find people to play anytime, and I enjoy it a lot!

lucasreis

@Witzbold: Because none of my friends play fighting games.

That and I'm a hermit.

Thorax

As much as this is a dissapointment, it's nice to know they're honest about it.

MikoKeZ

In my mind, online play in fighting games takes away a lot of the fun. I'm disappointed that they're having difficulty, but I'd rather play with my friends at home or at an arcade. Talking to someone with a headset just isn't the same. Anyway, the two matches I've played in SC4 were terribly laggy, and don't get me started on Brawl.
Hopefully Capcom will get it right, but I don't really care anymore. Online is for shooters.

TheCleaningGuy

I don't like fighting games online. I've always had some lag on all the fighting games i've played online. Sometimes it's really bad. (brawl!) I have more fun at a friend's house or my place anyway. Yelling in someone's face is more satisfying.

crazyorloco

I think a lot of people are missing the key point here. Game code can mask latency, but it cannot fix it. Whether it looks like it or not, even HD Remix is dealing with 100ms latency. On each end it looks like all your movies are firing exactly when you tell it. The thing is, on your opponents screen, they only see it when their machine finds out about it. Obviously, they have no idea when you hit the button, so it is mostly unnoticed.

Unless you truly know the game inside and out, latency less than 100ms will probably not be noticed by anybody, but the code still has to make guesses and ultimately fudge the matches a bit. When you notice the screen getting all jerky that simply means that the lag has surpassed what the guessing code is capable of dealing with. When that happens, you are now experiencing extreme latency. To most people, this is the only time that they can perceive the lag.

This is not a solvable problem. You can cover it up. Sometimes brilliantly, but the problem is still there. Anyone that claims that they have solved latency with code is lying. Simple as that.

fulgore66

I'm glad to see that there were a few people who posted that HD Remix has low/no lag. SF4 needs to follow the mold and go with whatever netcode is involved with GGPO/HR Remix.

zeruel

@AxelFury:

Actually it's horrible.

arstal

@Lider: GGPO is good, but since there's no Samurai Shodown 2 on there, and XBLA is in no hurry to release it, I've been spending all my time here:

[2dfighter.com]

If anybody wants to play some SS1 or SS2, look me up. I'm Billkwando... here, there, and everywhere.

Billkwando

dedicated servers? seems to work well on most PS3 games.

DrunkRaba

When I played Soul Calibur 4 online (on my cousin's 360), it was buttery smooth, only one match lagged, and that only happened for a second during a huge move. Street fighter 4 has much less detailed graphics (I think), and has no 3D character movement, so I think it's more a matter of them sucking at programming online stuff.

Placentasaurus

ggpo.net LOOK INTO IT

_MJ_

@Billkwando: there is Samurai Shodown 2 on GGPO

@Capcom: GGPO or GTFO, srsly

[ggpo.net]

Aquashark

I still don't understand how these games lag... seems like sending only button presses should be no problem... only a few kilobytes a second if that.... maybe even bytes... it be like typing a and sending it over an instant message when you hit the fierce punch... of course moving around quickly will be a lot more presses its still not enough to slow down... so wtf ... bah i dunno

JustOneFix

@JustOneFix: get a clue n00b

netcode isn't about bandwidth.. it's about prediction, sync and correction

Aquashark