For me, if a game is cheap and nice(within my limit), I'll buy it without second thought most of the time. If its expensive, a lot of thing need to consider maybe unnessarily so....natural instinct??

ahmeng

For those of you saying $15 for XBLA is ok as long as they don't do it frequently, you need to understand the more sales they get at this price the more ammunition they have for keeping the prices at $15.

Think of the behavior your rewarding from MS

Maximus9

@[ZTF]: The battery of glowing reviews he's already received doesn't give him the right to call it critically acclaimed?
I'm not sure why gamers get upset when people express confidence in their work. I doubt anyone would buy a game from someone who came out and said their game was mediocre but they'd like people to buy it anyway. But any time I see a designer make a confident, enthusiastic statement about the game they've spent an insanely long time making, a bunch of games call them arrogant dicks and declare they'd never buy a game from such an asshole.
Who does that leave? Mealy-mouthed timid fuckwits? Anonymous suits? Frozen-smiled phonies? Can't say I want games from any of those.

Zerozaki Ishiki

800 pts is the highest I'll go for my quick XBLA gaming fix.

(Space Giraffe wasn't even good)

Tha_Villain

@Arttemis: Yeah I wasn't sure if that descison was final or not on the Bionic Commando price. Braid is also going to have wallet competition from me with Galaga CE. Pac-man CE is probably might favorite XBLA game yet, and it's the same team. Busy month for XBLA.

Pornosaur

Space Giraffe is amazing and anyone who says differently is clearly just wrong.

Len Bias Cocaine Surplus

$15 too much for a well-made XBLA game? Please people, you know you wouldn't bat an eye for a USED 360 game where you could easily earn 1000 achievements points.

exkon

Space Giraffe is one of the best 5 games on arcade. People were too stupid to "get it" and werent any good at it. I still need to finish that one...
I was never a Minter fan before. For $5 I never understood why everyone didnt own it.

MisterMcThursday

Space Giraffe was.. A boring, repetive art-game.

This, on the other hand, is one of the only games to come in over a year to interest me to hook up the 360.

I have 1400 on my account. Haven't spent it in months. Here's a good reason to do so.

HikariOblivion

Regardless of the reasons, I won't support the price jump. I was looking forward to this game, but I'm not going to be fooled into thinking that raising the price is the only way for the publisher/developer to increase profit. Their strategy just lost them my allocated $10.

@Pornosaur: As far as I know, Bionic Commando will be launching at $10, not $15!

Arttemis

Here's the thing - when you get over ten US dollars, you step into a new level of expectation. Fifteen bucks can buy you a used full retail game on ebay. After all of the critical acclaim braid has gotten, it would have likely been a day one purchase for me at 800 space bucks. At 1200? I'm a little more likely to download the trial and sit on it for a little while. Maybe I'll buy it, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll spend that money on a used copy of forza 2 instead - it's going pretty cheap on ebay.

Oh, and for the record, raising the price because you're afraid it won't sell well is absolutely without a question the most ass backwards, short bus special thing I've ever heard.

What The Geek

@LittleBigPlaneteer: This.

failzmcgee

@etchasketchist: did you forget what country we are living in(assuming you are in the us of course) hypocrisy is the american way

stryker1800

@Homie: Nah, I liked it! The mechanics were just really... obtuse. But once you got used to everything, it was great to bull 10 enemies off the level every 30 seconds while juggling 5 bullets and managing flowers at the same time. It was just waaaay too much to take in at first.

Spiffyness

Only one game costing 1200 points has been worth it so far ( Puzzle Quest) let's hope this game is worth it's salt.

ZeroIXI

I only care about the price, when I have no money.. and right now, I have no money. So, this will just be a demo, and if I like it enough, then maybe a purchase.

LegendK1ll3r

Wouldn't the high price turn MORE people away from the game? If the game is great, it will sell plenty at a 10.00 price point. Space Giraffe wasn't a great game.

You people saying this is no big deal, let's support developers. Does that mean you want all games to be 15.00? Where should the line be drawn? Aren't all developers going through the same struggles? Why should we be sympathetic to one and not the other?

LittleBigPlaneteer

I think Blow postures too much. But despite that, Braid is a very nice-looking game and I'm interested in checking it out. Is it necessarily worth fifteen dollars? Probably not, at least for me-- when there are other experiences I'd rather play for lower price points. But I hope Jonathan can do well with this game, nonetheless.

wild homes isn't anything!

@PsycheE:
No i didn't think about it. Mainly because I think I'm the one person on the planet who tried the demo and thought puzzle quest was boring. I love RPGs but i just didn't feel like playin bejeweled everytime i had to fight.

COULD432

@gee: I don't think anyone has complained about the game, or the price for that matter.

Pornosaur

i would...if i owned a 360, theres a PC version isn't there?

ps3 love guys, ps3 love.

pandafresh

Space Giraffe didn't sell well because it sucked. And I'm not buying this game either. The only difference is I won't make a bunch of BS excuses, like this game's creator, to justify what is essentially my financial prerogative.

RonJeremy4Pres

Not sure how people can complain already when they haven't even played the game. This is the beauty of the XBLM, each game has a trial. I can't wait to give this one a download tomorrow.

gee

@Homie:

Hehe, I know what you mean. I downloaded it, and I was baffled by it (too much crap going on screen, too much randomness, bare-bones art design that added to the problem, etc).

Braid however, looks interesting. I wasn't too interested, but then I saw an interview of the guy that made it. Now I'm really interested, the game has some very cool concepts!

However, I know I won't be getting it, I'm out of extra moolah for a good week or two. :(

Coquiton

I'm still a little weird about spending 1800 points for another game soon maybe, but I'm still going to spend the points for that and Braid because I bill my entertainment by the hour, and these arcade titles are per dollar the best value you can get and especially these super creative ones.

Grumpz®

@etchasketchist: This is the dumbest logic I've heard this week.

How about those awesome games with crazy amount content that sell for $60? Should they start selling for $90 just because they're better than the rest?

failzmcgee

@Homie:

Exactly avoiding the space giraffe problem is easy. Don't punch a rainbow in the gut until it shits all over your game. Then maybe people will be able to play it without blowing out their corneas.

LanciePants

@etchasketchist: Last $60 game I bought was GTA 4 and realistically the next one I buy might be Left 4 Dead. I'm not arguing really that $15 or even $20 is an exorbeanant amount of money for any game. I just think it's possible they could have made more of a profit coming in at the $10 range x the number of purchases vs $15 x the number of purchases. I'm sure there are smart math types though that have it all figured out at Microsoft anyway. Also really it's a moot point since he doesn't have final control over pricing anyway.

Pornosaur

I didn't even think about the 1200 MS points for Puzzle Quest, did you?

PsycheE

Who's complaining about these prices, really? And by that, I mean what type of person is?

Is this is the same type of person that buys titles at $60 a pop (plus tax)? Is this the same type of person that only purchases 800 point XBLA titles? Is this the same type of person who refuses to acknowledge that inflation and proliferation into the mainstream markets has damn sure impacted the price of the games we're buying??

Well?

7ucky

Heres the big difference between the two games Braid is awesome and has gotten good reviews so far. Space Giraffe is just plain elephant dung absolutely terrible game. Braid may not sell as well because it is higher priced than say Geometry Wars 2 which many people still haven't gotten yet.

Ratfoot_Revived

@etchasketchist: Not to mention the fact that theres a demo to ALL of the XBLA games.

WallaJoy- Snorlax?

It looks like helluva game and a must buy no matter what the price is.

tooji

When you toss a bunch of junk on the service this stuff happens. I hope things go well, but they wont.

Thetallywacker

In an age of $60 shit games, bitching about a $15 awesome game seems like the wrong battle to be fighting.

etchasketchist

Nice article. I'll be keeping an eye on this, but if I try it and decide to spend some monies on it... well then screw you McWhertor.

WallaJoy- Snorlax?

@[ZTF]: People are allowed to be proud of their creations.

Captain Impulse

$15 bucks for a game is not too much (unless it's terrible). Remind yourselves of this the next time you pay $10 to see a 90-minute movie.

A lot of hard work goes into game development, and those who make a quality product should be rewarded for it.

Captain Impulse

The real problem with Space Giraffe wasn't its price, but the fact it just wasn't a very good game.

Homie

I really think this has a broader appeal than space giraffe did and I have to admit I'm balking a bit at the price. Like a lot of people my finacials aren't as solid as they should be and every $15 or so helps getting by. IGN gave it a really solid review so I'm still intrigued. I'll probably spend the $15 on Bionic Commando though.

Pornosaur

I'll try the trial and make my decision, as usual. But, 1200 isn't all that scary to me. I just don't want it to be too commonplace.

Heliophage

I was with the guy until "There is a significant possibility that Braid would have been the next Psychonauts or Beyond Good and Evil (critically acclaimed but nobody played it)". He can price it however he wants, but that's a pretty cocky thing to say.

[ZTF]

I never cared about the price...

Tietsu

Well said McWhertor

I like rewarding developers who innovate

Snuffbox

1200 MS points is cheap. $60 retail games are priced high. I don't see the problem with Braid's price or PAA's.

hagridore

Even with the 4800 MS points I have saved up on my account, I'm sure as hell not paying for this. I get pissed off enough as it is buying games for 800 space bucks. I remember being interested in it when I saw it on the 1UP Show too.

Hostile

@Daiden: Hoping wistfully the game will make some money back so you can make a game does not equal greedy by any definition of the word I understand.

Zerozaki Ishiki

@Gam3r:
What the hell?

XbhaskarX

I don't understand the logic. Geometry Wars was $5 and everyone I know owns it. Space Giraffe just wasn't
very good. Also, if the only reason it commands a premium price is so people notice it...well, that's just a precedent I don't want to establish. Still, Braid looks decent. Maybe once I get through all the other games on xbla/psn I'll check it out.

Wolfers

@[ZTF]:
What? Any developer who doesn't think his game will be critically acclaimed should probably find a new job.

XbhaskarX

This guy sure seems like an arrogant cock, I'll only buy the game if it blows me away. The trailer of it did, but trailers and full game gameplay are two different things.

Gam3r

@Zerozaki Ishiki:

Well I just don't think increasing the price is the right strategy to make your game stand out, or recoup development costs. He says his game isn't getting publicity. Well maybe he and Microsoft should work together and change that instead. Shelve the game for a better time (i.e. not a week before Bionic Commando) and do some heavy marketing of it. If it's a quality game, it will sell a lot more at the 800 point level than at 1200 points and he will make a lot more money in the long run.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Homie: I've heard people say that Space Giraffe was an awesome game with... useful... stuff... that made it... important or something. Even though I'm a huge fan of some of Minter's earlier work, I didn't understand what Space Giraffe was supposed to be. I'm convinced that the guy has done way too many drugs. =)

On the other hand, Braid is awesome. I played it for a couple of hours when it first came out on the Xbox development network, and I plan to buy it as soon as it's available tomorrow.

Born2Shill

I was going to check it out, but I definitely won't be buying it now. I thought the higher price was because it was a high quality game, but in reality the guy is just greedy. No thanks.

Daiden

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I'd saying he's being realistic. He is releasing a 2D platformer on the Xbox 360. The week before Bionic Commando. Could easily get buried there.

Zerozaki Ishiki

I look at it this way. I would have absolutely no problem paying $35-$40 for a new DS game nor would I feel bad to spend $15 on a classic SNES cartridge for a 2D game that I love with beautiful artistic direction. For a game that is downloadable it may be a lot for you guys to swallow, but I will be buying this game to support the creative team behind it and most importantly to support good 2D games with new concepts. Even though I have a backlog of literally hundreds of games to play, I'll buy it to support the creator as I feel the game is really worth every penny. The same goes with Megaman 9 for that matter. If these creative 2D games sell, and sell well then people will continue to make them. Simple as that :)

goomba478

@Zerozaki Ishiki:

For someone so confident in their game, he sure is fucking insecure about it selling.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Maximus9: You're right, but look at the bigger picture - if they bring full rich games to XBLA, then $15 is a fair price to pay for them. Don't think of XBLA games as their own seperate segment of games - just think of them as *games*. If the game is worth $15, I have no problem paying it. If the game is short and shallow, then no, it's not worth it.

I do still stand my ground on my earlier statement - fifteen bucks can nab you a used retail disc-based game, so I hold $15 xbla titles to a higher standard than $10 ones. Doesn't mean I won't buy 'em, just means I expect more of them.

What The Geek

@COULD432: You have to give puzzle quest more time than the trial. The depth and fun of everything comes later.

Grumpz®

I hear the developer is a pretentious asscannon, but I will probably pick this up.

Don't have to like a person to enjoy what they create.

sir_carrot

I see no problem with the price, but with the fucking Microsoft points. Does anyone like them? "Yay, now all my money is put into some fucking imaginary currency which no one is quite sure of the exchange rate for!" Why can't games just cost money? At least they shoud let you do that with a credit card. Plus they love to charge uneven amounts you could never just buy. If you don't have any Microsoft points and you want to buy a game, you're going to end up buying either 200 or 300 hundred extra points.

M-26-7

This game looks like it's worth $15. I would have had no problem with it being a $20 retail release, so I have no problem with it being a $15 XBLA title. Will definitely check it out tomorrow.

Struct09

His Space Giraffe mention makes no sense what so ever. That game was a mess of confusion and a lot of people couldn't understand what was going on. Is this what he wants me to think of his game like?

He sounds like a nice guy but if I gave my money away to every nice guy I came across, I too would have to borrow a lot. I'll wait until it goes down or I will simply pass. Arcade games are distractions in-between retail games for me, and at this price, I can get a used retail game for not much more at all. I'd rather go for the used retail game.

karasu is my homeboy

Definitely worth the $15 even if you just get to hold it over your friends that you played the game and they didn't. I would actually strongly suggest that this be the next Kotaku Gameclub game, the nuance and story are exceedingly interesting topics well worth addressing.

Ihavenoclue

Low price = low sales?
High price = high sales?

I don't think economics works that way. Can someone explain this in a clearer way?
Space Giraffe wasn't good, IMHO. Pricing isn't going to do much for that. Sorry to any SG fans who hate me for that.
I'm not complaining about the cost of Braid. Price isn't a concern with a good game - but I don't quite get the logic of a higher price to prevent it from being underplayed.

Iocarios

i just bought geometry wars 2 and pixel junk eden last week. definitely getting this tomorrow too. i'm loving the dlc right now on both systems. i do agree and i hope $15 doesn't become the norm, but if the game is truly deserving then why not?

Cpt-Jobert

@[ZTF]: From what I've heard from this guy, he is a cocky bastard. I won't be supporting his undeserved hubris - until I can't resist anymore, if that day comes.

Anarchist_Gamer

@Placentasaurus: MS decided on the 1200 point price, read the comments. Also, he said he would price it at $0 if he could.

"If I could ensure my ability to keep making games without publisher interference, and release Braid at $0, I would do that."

Also I don't understand the hate for Blow, after listening to some of his keynote from Free Play and his commentary he seems very nice and passionate about what he does.

mike566

I knew the Space Giraffe hate would start. It's not a bad game; it's just designed for a demographic that is only about 19,000 large these days. I've always sort of contented that people might moan about the shifting demographic of the video games industry, but no one seemed to care when it shifted from Minter's approach to design to a more buddy movie approach. I guess I'm just a dinosaur. Sigh.

Donutta

@hagridore: "$60 retail games are priced high."

That's a broad generalization. How about MOST $60 retail games are priced high(if by high you mean they aren't a good value). The games that I pay $60 for are generally a good value that have a much higher ratio of content to cost. The last 3 games that I spent $60 on were MGS IV, GTA IV and Orange Box. Braid has 6 levels and is quite brief based on some of the previews/reviews. I'd like to know exactly how brief. Is it Commando 3 brief?

Spartan1308™

The game looks pretty good though. (sorry, pressed "submit" too soon)

Placentasaurus

This is coming from the guy who went on a rant about how a game developer's integrity is destroyed when they try to make money with their game. What a hypocrite.

Placentasaurus

@Homie: Agreed... that and it literally gave me a headache when i played it.

Doctor Dentz

I love the concept, I love the art style, and from the sounds of it, it's worth the buy. I'm plunking down my $15 in the morning.

I've been hoping for something a little more high concept on XBLA, and it's finally delivering.

If I can pay $16 for an IMAX Dark Knight, the wallet rape of NYC tolls, and vomit inducing gas prices, I can handle $15 for a fine experience. Even if it's short.

BlackdogGT

Maybe if Space Giraffe was not such a sucky game it would have sold more.. hmm just my opinion..

JustOneFix

here's my issue with the game, the ign review stated it wasnt very long, maybe 4-5 hours at most with limited replayability, $15 is too high a price for me to jump on this. if i'm spending money on a game, it needs to be cost effective.

meltyman

Whatever you say, Blow. I'm not buying your game at that price, end of story.

Also, Castle Crashers is pushing my faith. Bad call.

Swift_

Ever since I saw Braid several months ago I've been stoked. Buying it pay day, which is too far away.

EskimoDave

@Homie: Agreed.

belo

Space Giraffe would have been so much better if ANYONE developing it had noticed it's seizure inducing.

I'd LOVE that game if there wasn't just that much strobing, gyroscoping, weirdass lighting shit going on

I loved the concept but hated the rendition

interstate78

Eh. It isn't pricing that affects games as much as marketing--if you get good reputation online people will buy (a demo helps too)--saying that you are overpricing to gain noteriety is a very dumb move.

Zookey

Within a minute of my friend showing me this game I went from "must buy" at the beginning to "pass" as soon as I saw the price. It takes a lot in a game on the console arcades to make me pay more than $10 to download it. With Bionic Commando coming so soon, a game I've been anticipating like mad, it just isn't enough.

SoupOfTheSeason

"There is a significant possibility that Braid would have been the next Psychonauts or Beyond Good and Evil (critically acclaimed but nobody played it)," Blow contends "Even at $10."

Well actually, BG&E came out the same day as Ratchet 2. Guess where my (and many others', I assume) $50 went? Sure, I eventually picked up BG&E later down the line...You know what? Forget it. No matter how many times I read this article it just doesn't make any sense. All I can say is it sure as hell better be $15 well spent.

Wolfers

I'm looking forward to it, but I don't know if this indebted indie developer or the colossally big Konami(or was it Capcom?) needs my money for Bionic Commando.

Talleh

I think it's cool that the creator actually talks about pricing instead of ignoring the pleas of the masses or giving some lame off the cuff comment like "it's up to the market, not me", which is a codeword for "mwah ha ha ha bend over and smile!".

Also, $5 above the $10 standard is better than the $10 over the $50 standard that current gen consoles seem to have gotten away with (and I'm still bitter about that).

Chef

Nobody bought Space Giraffe because it wasnt a great game, and nobody understood how to even play it. The demo was terrible. Really bad analogy.

If this game is really great people will buy it at 800 or 1200 points it doesnt matter.

chronicdog

support the indie developers....especially if they are willing to innovate so well

Alchemy_Comrade

@EditorinChief: Not necessarily. There's a concept in psychology (don't ask me what it's called. Psych was my minor... and it was six years ago) which deals with the inherent value that people place in a product which is priced at a premium. Or in Space Giraffe's case, the game was underpriced so people didn't think it was worth anything.

I believe part of marketing is devoted to determining the 'sweet spot' for pricing things. Price something too high, and people can't afford it. Price something too low, and people will think the product is junk.

Born2Shill

I will be buying this game day one, hell this game is as advanced and deep as a lot of DS games, and even some PSP games, and those cost $29.99 or more most of the time. Even a cheap PSP game like Patapon cost's $19.99. So anybody complaining about this game being the equivalent of $15 should totally not be.

-WPack911

WPack911

I just want to say to some people out there that don't get it, he is saying that if space giraffe was priced higher there would have been less losses because he would have made more money on every copy sold. And since the only people who bought the game liked it already, it would not have made a significant decrease in sales.

EditorinChief

Release a game at $0 x lots of copies = $0 total
Release a game at $10000 x 0 copies = $0 total
People need to realise that it's a bell curve in between. It's fine .. be greedy. Try to maximize your profits; you deserve it you capitalist stud, you. Just be smart about it. You need to realize that 1200 points is going to illicit the comments you see here, and it's going to turn people away. You'd probably make the same profit if you released it at 400 points, but your fans would be a much friendlier crowd (800 being the sweet spot IMO)

And as for the whole points thing. I personally see 1200 points, and think "Hmm, that's even more than $12". Then when I realize that it's actually $15, I'm even further dissapointed, just from the fact that, in my mind, I just got 2 price increases. If they'd just called it $15 to begin with I wouldn't have minded.

SouDesuKa

@[ZTF]: So he claims it's the next well reviewed financial dog? Thats not a good thing to aspire to.

kingmanic

Does it really cost that much to make a 2D side scroller nowadays?

The main issue with these prices is:
When the hell was the last 400 point game?
It's almost as if they are phasing it out.
And everyone jumping and buying all these games for more and more money, is just telling MS that it is ok to sell them at this price.

Space giraffe is not a good comparison at all because it is a completely different game.
It is very unique, and didn't get half as much exposure as any of these "Summer of Arcade" titles.

While innovative braid is a 2D side scroller, and if done right will have a much broader appeal than a game like space giraffe.

R0YB0T

If Braid is as good as Space Giraffe, then I will pay $15 for it.

supercrap

First Minter mentions PoP: Sands of time in one line with his game and now he is comparing it to BG&E and Psychonauts... /rolleyes

Back on topic:
I think the pricing is just about right. It's the maximum he can ask for and later if sales decline he can lower the price and boost sales for a second time.

Garo

The price is no big deal but comparing it to Space Giraffe is a quick way to lose my interest. That game hurt me.

kidko

Thing about console DLC is it's delivered to customers by Sony / Microsoft, not by the people who made it, so the only cost in distro that the creators would have is any interactions with Sony / Microsoft...

Microsoft would be fronting the cost for the servers to download this game, so in reality, pricing it lower would mean more people would buy it and they'd get MORE money at 10 dollars than they would at 15...

bobtheduck

Im sorry, but for the equivalent of $15.- I either want a full retail game or at least give me a Disc and Packaging. People seem to forget that with these downloadable titles we may not be able to play them on the next gen hardware, that will come some time in the future. At least the discs are more likely to still be usable.
So XBL Arcade Titles are like throw-away games to me. And im not going to spend $15 on a quick gaming fix. $4 - any time, $8 - some times and $15 or more? Never. Thats why I will probably never play the Penny Arcade Game or own Braid.

JonnyDee

The problem with his logic is that Space Giraffe was terrible. The only people who bothered to buy it were fans of Jeff Minter games and I guess it turns out that there aren't that many of them.

The price is no big deal if the game is decent but he should try being honest instead of saying something this stupid. Braid is 1200 points because he wanted to make an extra 400 points per copy sold.

RykinPoe

I do not care about packaging or discs. I dislike the art in Braid. It is ugly, it is "The Hobbit" meets Super Mario Bros., I am not impressed this game. I do like the time mechanic but I cannot stand to look at it.

jackal888

Hm, no strikethrough HTML codes work it seems, so some of the non-serious sarcasm in my post was lost <.< ignore the "completely worthless"

HikariOblivion

I've played it, it's clever, I don't really like it though, it's not my cup of tea. Would I be more inclined to buy it at 800 pts? Probably not, I'd bought 1942, Commando 3 and GW2 and I don't really like any of them.

Mr_Fujisawa

@JonnyDee: Uhm, this is the 360, chances are the disc will be damaged before then ;P

Also, uh.. what games are $4 or $8? They're mostly $10, or $5 if the game is completely worthless lower-end

Also, there's a push away from backwards compatability lately it seems. Very possible the NeXtbox won't be able to play a disc game.

Anywho, those who say this is right out.. Hey, just try the demo. Maybe it is worth $15. Maybe it's not, who knows. Only $5 away from 'acceptable' is a bit slim to the point of silly a margin in my opinion. Hey, I can't stand my 360 at all, but it's releases like this that make me continue to hook it up every so often.

HikariOblivion

I loved Space Giraffe, and would have paid twice the price. It's not everyone's cup of tea, and clearly the tutorial wasn't the best at getting players into it either, but those of us who dig it have a great time with it. Looking forward to Braid.

cdammers

@HikariOblivion: Sorry, was thinking in Euros.

JonnyDee

I've just downloaded (and bought) the title, about to dive in. Been looking forward to this game for ages.

Crazyreyn

This game is really good, judging by the demo I just played.
I would have 100% bought it for 800 points.
I am not sure about it for 1200.

R0YB0T

I didn't but Space Giraffe because it sucked. I was planning on having a look at Braid and maybe buying when I assumed that it would be $10 like almost all previous XBLA games. At $15 I'll still give it a trail play but I can all but guarantee that I won't be buying it.

Numerous

@Pornosaur: For everyone saying "Who's complaining about the price?", please visit this article, read all the comments, then come back and share your thoughts:

[kotaku.com]

Oh and the general consensus is that Space Giraffe sucked. If you like it, fine. When I play a game, I don't want to have to close my eyes, put on headphones, tilt my head sideways like the RCA dog, and do an interpretive dance, every time I play the game.

Oh and that pic of J. Allard in the background of SG? Soooo uber-cool. Now if it'd been a picture of Hank Williams Jr. or something, THAT would've been truly unexpected.

Maybe I haven't given it a fair chance, but that's the risk Minter took by making his game so, ahem, deep.

For the moment, I'll say the emperor aint got no clothes on.

Billkwando

I'm not upset about spending 1200 points for a game. I'm upset at spending 1800 points for a game (-cough- Castle Crashers).

kojirodensetsu

"how pricing came back to bite the developer in the ass"

Pricing is not what bit space giraffe in the ass, THE GAME SUCKING is what bit space giraffe in the ass.

ironraiden

"Braid Priced High To Prevent "The Space Giraffe Problem"

High prices prevent sucking?

KaneRobot

@JonnyDee: What $15 full retail games do you play?
I've never seen a new release priced like that. Who said it's a quick gaming fix?

Zeouterlimits

There is only one question - is the game worth $15? That's it, everything else is irrelevant and will be sorted out by the market. I'm sorry, but MS's pricing matrix is a little more complex than, "Gee, that sold at $15, let's price them all there."

Not only that, a creator of a good has a right to price that good however they want -- they may not sell any of it, but it does belong to them.

A lot of you people seem like you feel like you have a right to play a game and that pricing interferes with your rights. That's utter BS ...

Again, the only question you ask yourself is -- is the game worth it? If the answer is yes, buy it. If it isn't, don't. Any other discussion is pretty much a waste of time.

jayntampa

Boycott anything over 800 points!!!!

wtf007

This writeup does a very poor job of representing Blow's comments. As summarized, they make absolutely no sense, but if one looks at the entire post he made, his point becomes clear:

[quote]What I had to guard against is the Space Giraffe problem. Jeff Minter priced Space Giraffe (which is the best game on XBLA) at $5 because he wanted a lot of people to be able to afford it, and really wanted to give something to the fans at a low price. Well, that bit him in the ass because he only sold 19k copies; depending on how big his testing+localization advance was, maybe he has barely made any money from Space Giraffe at all, and just lost a lot of money (due to the time spent in development). I don't know exactly. I'm pretty sure, though, he didn't even make back his cost of living.

If I could ensure my ability to keep making games without publisher interference, and release Braid at $0, I would do that. But I had to guard against the Space Giraffe problem. Like Space Giraffe, Braid is a non-mainstream game, very different from the other things on XBLA, without much publicity. And Jeff Minter had a built-in audience from his previous games, waiting to play SG the minute it came out; Braid doesn't even have that.

There is a significant possibility that Braid would have been the next Psychonauts or Beyond Good and Evil (critically acclaimed but nobody played it), even at $10. If that happens at $10 then I am in debt and have to get a job and can't make games any more. If that happens at $15, maybe I can still make games. That is the difference.[/quote]

MSUSteve

Looking at space giraffe for 1 minute made me want to vomit though. I don't think the cheap price killed that game. The game was garbage. I hope this overpriced p.o.s. sells worse to teach those greedy bastards a lesson.

wtf007

Well I downloaded the demo this morning and played a little of it. It seems like it could be fun but I'm still in there air on it. I have plenty of points I'm just not sure if I want to save it for Castle Crashers. I am definitely getting Bionic Commando next week so there's at least 800 points.

DazeOfWar

Since Bionic Commando Rearmed and LostWinds cost $10, Braid should cost the same. I don't see this game to be better than any of these 2.

gencid

Echoing what many of you have already said, the reason that Space Giraffe didn't sell is simply because it wasn't very good. I downloaded the demo, thought it kind of sucked, and that was it.

Braid has an even bigger problem to surmount: the price. They can cite "the Space Giraffe problem" as the reason for the pricing all they want, but the end result is going to be that Braid is going to have to be more than just "good" for me to justify spending $15 on it. Hell, it's going to have to be more than "very good"; it's going to have to be excellent. Now, I haven't played the demo yet, but based on what I know about the game, it doesn't seem like it's going to reach that mark, in my opinion.

Castle Crashers, assuming that the leaked price is correct, is going to have an even tougher task than Braid. It's going to have to be "groundbreaking," and again, despite it looking to be very fun based on the videos (and Flash demo), I don't think it's there, which is a disappointment because at a lower price, it would have been an instant purchase.

kylenalepa

I think his "Space Giraffe" analogy is completely wrong. Why would a game sell poorly because its cheap? That goes against consumer logic.

The primary motivation for buying a game is whether the game is good or not. Following the perceived enjoyment the purchaser thinks he/she will get from the game, he/she will next consider the price.

In the case of Space Giraffe, the low price didn't overcome peoples' initial assessment that the game was simply not that great.

Look at Geometry Wars 2. It's a fantastic game that sells for 800 MS points ($10). Should it have been priced higher because of the "Space Giraffe" analogy? Ha Ha, Don't think so. What if Geometry Wars 2 was priced at 400 MS points ($5)?

Don't you think it would sell even more? I'm pretty sure it would.

DugDawg

I, for one, didn't buy Space Giraffe 'cause I didn't like it.

stonefry

@[ZTF]: Well, that's 'cause he's a cock. Always have been. It's pretty easy to get a disliking for the guy.

Then again, that doesn't matter if Braid is good enough to warrant the $15.00 price point.

@bobtheduck: Not necessarily. If you have a base of people who will pay anything within reason for your product and a huge amount of people on "maybe", sometimes pricing higher will be better.

Grive

recommendation: Rumor has it that 1600 pt cards will be 14.99 at target this coming week. an opportunity to buy Braid for a little less. The same thing happened when PAAOTRSPOD came out.

xrayzwei

Next time someone asks you this question, Mr. Blow, you say this:

"I'm selling my game for 15 dollars because that's what it is worth. Now get off my lawn."

rateoforange

My only issue with the price is from the reviews I have read, the game is short, being completed in just a couple of hours and once you figure out the puzzles, that's it. There is really no replay value. I can't justify spending that much for a game that I wouldn't play again. It's a shame, but that's just me. I will give it a shot if M$ ever offers the game at a discounted price.

Cyco

@hagridore: Are they? Were you alright with $50 last gen?

'Cause if you were, $60 is not expensive.

Grive

@gencid: Exactly, Lost winds is the best game in the Wii Store because it is good and beautiful and its price is right, when its developers could´ve been afraid of the same thing about not selling well, this guy should learn something...

And i agree with the people saying this game isn´t beautiful, the main character is awful and the pastel graphics doen´t seem so good, i´ll download the demo and see it in HD motion to see how does it really looks, but the pics aren´t doing it any favor...

Daisuash

If i wasn´t so sure about MS using this game to see if they can raise the standard pricing, i´ll give it a try, but since its price obey other things instead of quality, i´ll rather not...

Daisuash

@DugDawg: No, that's not the "space giraffe problem".

The SGP (for short) is that the game was tailored for a small base of Minter fans, while most everyone else was either ambivalent or put off by the game (that'd be me - I couldn't sand the demo). Space Giraffe would have done better if it had been more expensive - not because more people would have purchased it, but because the demand is relatively inelastic.

That's his main point - he believes Braid's demand will not be very elastic, so he can get more monies at $15 than at $10.

Grive

@Grive: I see what you are saying. But what's to say the same fans would be willing to pay the extra money?

It's just as likely that these fans might be unwilling to buy the game at the higher price point, and thus, the game's sales suffer even more because the game's core audience is turned off by the price.

DugDawg

I bought it earlier and I personally love it... Nice little puzzles, calming/soothing atmosphere, interesting visuals. Worth the 15 for sure :)

OrionnoirO

That argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I bought Space Giraffe because it was an original game and cost only 400 MSP. Had it been any more I wouldn't have bothered because I didn't find the demo that great.

PsiPab

I would complain but after playing the demo I have to buy it. Space Giraffe is art too. But more of a modern sort of art. The sort of art that people like myself don't really like. That doesn't stop it being art though.

floppylobster

I played the demo. Would have bought for 800 points, but not 1200.

I should be saving my money so I can buy stuff at PAX anyways.

kojirodensetsu

Perhaps the Space Giraffe problem is that its a punishing shooter with, imo, terrible graphics. It draws humor from esoteric retro gaming referances and has a visual style that makes it pretty hard to tell whats going on. It really annoyed me when Jeff Minter slagged off other games on xbla just because his bombed. Really shows no class on his part. Defo gonna buy braid tomorrow though, edge gave it 9, its gotta be good.

BlooQKazoo

The "Space Giraffe problem," while interestingly named, I'm not sure is at all relevant. It's really just an issue of estimating demand and the relevant price elasticity thereof for the product, something I'm sure Microsoft follows closely and has many models to deal with. Braid has received a lot of good hype as far as i can tell. I think this leads the pricing gurus to think that demand for the game will be high enough to justify its higher price, while minimizing the loss of sales to (what they assume to be) the minority of customers who will balk at the price. A worthy gamble IMO.

weinerman

@DugDawg: Nothing, actually. He's likely to lose money by this move. I noted that Blow believed that the demand would be relatively inelastic, attempting to convey that it isn't a sure thing.

For all we know, this move might kill him. It's basically a move based on his insecurities, trying to feed off of the people already hyped for it. He's scared his creation won't have too much sales potential.

Grive

@LanciePants: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
"Exactly avoiding the space giraffe problem is easy. Don't punch a rainbow in the gut until it shits all over your game."

Well said...very colorful description of that terrible game...pun intended.

MaTsKaT

@luigilogik: Well, the opportunity cost for a single person game is at the very bottom of around $45000 USD per year of development, if he's doing it fulltime.

Grive

I thought this was developed by one guy? how much could it had possibly cost? My points are going to Bionic Commando Rearmed this month. After i play the shit out of that and if i really, really like the demo I'd think about it, but by then this awesome Fall line up of retail games would be upon us and it would be forgotten about until an 09 sale.

luigilogik

@LanciePants: You are hereby nominated for Comment of the Week, good sir.

Billkwando

If it takes $15 per copy to make him and his investors at least break even on this game then so be it. You have to realize that "quirky" or "experimental" games like this will stop materializing if there is no financial incentive for the companies involved.

Prism Ra

"Yay, now all my money is put into some fucking imaginary currency which no one is quite sure of the exchange rate for!"
@M-26-7: If $20 (for 1600) is all your money, then you shouldn't be putting it into games in the first place. You can even get MS points direct from Live in increments as low as $6.25 (500).

And is it that big of a deal if you carry a 500 point balance on your account? If you kept that $6.25 in the bank for a year, you'd get a whole 25 cents (at 4% interest, much higher than the currently pitifully low average savings).

People seem to forget that with these downloadable titles we may not be able to play them on the next gen hardware, that will come some time in the future. At least the discs are more likely to still be usable.
@JonnyDee: And what makes you think the discs will be playable on next gen hardware? If they make back compat for disc based games, what would make you think that they wouldn't do the same for downloadable games?

kftgr

I think this is a fair analogy pricing on arcade games they have to make enough money to get their money back and I'm sure a lot of though went into the price. I played the demo this morning for a few minutes and i will definitely buy this when I get home.

I guess the biggest problem people have here is a comfort level in cost and in the retail world you have 40 dollar and 60 dollar titles( and a few 50s). And for the bulk of games live has released them at 5 and 10. But there have been 15 dollar games since the beginning Bank shot Billards was the 1st Lumines Live the second and Puzzle Quest was the 3rd. So this doesn't seem to be a pricing scheme or trend. There are many PC games like these that sell for 20 bucks or more forget the name but there is a beautiful indie game that is underwater and you play a merperson and its 30 dollars to buy it.

Price does not matter completely if its worth it to the customer. But contrary profit margins are important for a dev to keep making games and I think they have done more research on how much they need to make as well as how well other games have been selling to know how much they need to charge. I would prefer them to be able to charge more for these games then have to scale games down in an effort to reduce costs. Sure there should be a threshold on the prices but I guess I differ that if a games is worth it I don't mind seeing a game hit near retail prices I don't mind PSN after all and its titles like Warhawk and Siren though I think I prefer if a game exceeeds a value of say 25 buck I would really like a retail release. Though I understand and will buy more individual games that may not be able to be produced for retail for more if they are worth it.

Konchu

@Grive: And Braid's been in development longer than BC:R.

kftgr

Great game played the demo on my arcade and buying it on my main 360. Honestly this is the type of game I think of when you say XBLA. Space Giraffe makes me think WTF not XBLA.

Great art direction, something my 3-year old can play, something my wife will be happy to play, neat story, music is well done, etc.

Talryyn

@kftgr: " If $20 (for 1600) is all your money, then you shouldn't be putting it into games in the first place."

Semantics ftw. Way to miss the point.

Billkwando

Inspired by this very news item, I played the trial version of Braid and completely fell in love with it. Tomorrow I'm getting some points and buying this game, it's clearly worth the extra 400.

Frampis

Good grief! Just look at all the naysayers across these boards. So many people complain about big companies making moneys, hand over fist, the result of which is not helping the indie/garage developers join in. So here comes ONE guy, confident about his creation (some haters call cocky) saying what he thinks about making his slice of cake, denying him his suggestion of it being critically acclaimed (it's won E3, GDC IGF, etc. in some waters that's called acclaim) and haters STILL disapprove... try spreading some wealth across developers, for once! Saving will get you the game eventually. If you can support this effort by these few guys, do it!

Why spend your time complaining about a game you wouldn't buy, when knowingly doing so may hurt the response/appeal that an indie developer needs? What is your purpose in uniting against ONE factor of the game, its price? In other words: if you have nothing good to say, shut up. It's not as if it were EA... i like their stuff, but apparently some people around here dont remember EA charging for ingame money in godfather, essentially charging for "cheats".

Purum

Reading all the comments, I can't help but get the image that XBLA gamers are spoiled by the $10 (800 pt) price of "full" games.

Take a look at the post on Ratchet & Clank: Quest for Booty [kotaku.com] It's a $15 game with expect playtime of 3-5 hours, yet the comments are overwhelmingly positive on the price point.

Braid, an independently developed game featuring beautiful artwork and much longer playtime is also $15, yet is having a much rougher reception.

Is the difference in reception due to game type (2d vs 3d assets), or more due to the rather fixed $5/10 prices on XBLA vs that on PSN?

Similarly, Lost Winds on Wii was $10, but was only about 3 hours long, yet it didn't seem to have gotten as much flak as Braid. What gives?

kftgr

See, I think Space Giraffe sold poorly because it sucked, not because of the price. If I want to play Tempest on acid I'll play Tempest on acid, thanks...

If retail price were a reflection of quality Space Giraffe would have been free, and Yaris would have been paying me for my wasted time.

stranger

Alright, I played the Braid demo this afternoon, and I must admit, it's a revolutionary game. The hand-painted artwork and music are beautiful, but that isn't even the most appealing part. The best part of the game -- which unfortunately, will blow over the heads of about 90 percent of the online gaming community -- are the intricate puzzles.

In the same way that Portal changed the way you play and think about a first person shooter, this game will change the way you play and think about a platformer.

The nice thing is if you die, you can simply rewind time and start over. Because of this, death carries no real penalty in the game.

You likely won't realize just how innovative this game is until it dawns on you that the puzzle pieces you collect not only create a picture, but create a picture that is integral to gameplay. And don't think that once you've created most of the picture, that you've finished the battle, because you can manipulate that picture by moving it. And move it you must to get the last piece!

DugDawg

@Purum: Nonono, he's being called cocky because he's a cock. Always has been. Not because of his "critically acclaimed" comment, but because of most every comment he's made.

@kftgr: Why is it much longer? according to IGN, it's just "a few hours", with zero replay value.

Grive

Way to drop the ball Kotaku. Not one article about Braid being out in TWO DAYS. Do you even know your base?

WatershipDown

@WatershipDown: All yours belong to them.

Billkwando

It woul dbe smart to release at 15 (like it is) and then drop it down to 10 after a month or two

ajacy

Honestly, I find no issues with the man's rationale. He is self-publishing a title that will most likely cover a niche market at best, and he wants to make sure that he gets a return on his work. I have a really hard time in trying to fault him on this. I am just amazed that so many people have already written the game off because it costs $15 dollars instead of $10. It's as if the game should be devalued just because it is download only and therefore, not a real game that is not deserving of an already below average price.

I don't know, maybe that I am old in the ways of thinking…. But if I think that my title is going to have an already limited audience due to the fact that it will not be released in retail outlets, that maybe I want to make sure that I make as much money off of my product as possible to ensure that I live a comfortable life and that I am able to continue work on my next project. I'll download the demo and if the gameplay in the demo is horrible, I won't buy it. If it's great and I think that it's worth $15, I'll pick it up. If I can't tell by playing the demo, I'm sure that there will be at least 20 online reviews by the weekend… so I can't say that there is no possible way that I can't make an informed decision.

As for Space Giraffe being a bad game…. the more that I played it, the better it was. It's definitely not for everybody, but it did remind me of what I experienced when Street Fighter 2 came out. I know it seems to be a far-fetched comparison, but when SF2 came out, the special moves were not printed anywhere on the cabinet. The only way that you figured them out was either by accident, of learning through the community. Learning how to play Space Giraffe had that same kind of feel. Figuring out which enemies spun the web, figuring out which sound cues belonged to which enemy type and that it was just as important to learn the sound cues as it was to visualize what was going on-screen… Space Giraffe was the first game that I played in a long time that when I talked to my friends about the strategies that they employed to get higher scores were essential for me to better my performance in the game.

ErbilT

Meh, saving my cash for Castle Crashers.

Inferno-X

@WatershipDown: It would be nice to know what Kotaku's final thoughts are on the game now that it's released. I downloaded the demo and had a lot of fun. great unique gameplay, amazing art and music. Funny too. I've unlocked the full game but haven't dove into it yet.

Fonzy