Make an M rated game please.

djHEAT

The bikes should have NO drivers just like all the cars. I think it would be cool and then we can have the huge crashes.

Stikasasn

@Ett: Having played only Burnout 3 and Paradise, Races are way way way better in Paradise. No bullshit AI flawless driving the second they leave your sight. You can actually catch them again.
Paradise definitely requires a bit more patience before it starts making sense, but I'm very happy with my purchase.

Zerozaki Ishiki

What a cop-out from the Burnout team. Did anyone play Speed Kings? It came out last-gen and was essentially Burnout with motorcycles. It was rated E, AND featured bikes getting wrecked.

Nice try Criterion.

+ Watch video

Klaymen

Criterion Games is slow rip out the heart and soul of the burnout serie. First the Racing now the crashing. Oh how I long for the days of Burnout 1 2 and 3.

Ett

Burnout Paradise is rated E and trying to keep that from becoming a T, not T to M.

Anyway, I'm really happy I bought Burnout Paradise. Some really good things to look forward to to keep me playing (Cagney update was great, Davis, trophies, the other one, the planes rumor, etc.)

mfwahwah

I wonder what Criterion Games had to have been smoking to think adding bikes to Burnout would be a good idea.
Whatever it is, I want some if you come up with ideas as weird and stupid as this.

Emiat

@Fallible: I must agree to disagree there... I was (and still am at heart), an in-line skate fanatic. I got too old to be what I was in my early 20s... traded in my Roces for K2s, but there was a time when my life revolved around blading...

*sigh*

MrBionic

@MrBionic: road rash 2 for genesis was/ is one of the best games i've ever played good music, fast bikes, road kill, crashes. good times man good times.

Milkzhakes

@MrBionic: That's actually a pretty good idea for a videogame.

FP_slomo788

@MrBionic: While Skitchin' (SKITCHIN!!!!! YEAH!!!!!) is good, there's nothing more manly than the combination of tight leather and Road Rash's (bitchin') theme music.

Fallible

@FP_slomo788: Ahh.. well, the point of my OP was that I want blood and dismemberment ;)

MrBionic

@headcrab: I appreciated the ability to instantly revert back to the beginning or proceeded directly to the next race.

That said, I did buy and play it, but I might not have given it an adequate chance.

FEAST

This game keeps hanging around wanting me to buy it, ok I'll do it next Amazon deal on it. You have my word Criteron.

Pornosaur

@MrBionic: Well there wasn't much to bash into in MS but yeah, you do get off the bike and face off in the mud. Pretty cool sometimes. I guess the T rating also prevented blood, dismemberment etc.

FP_slomo788

@MrBionic: They fly far. Motorstorm is T, Pain is T, I don't see the issue.

InsidiousTuna

@FEAST: If you want rid of it, you've clearly never played Paradise.

headcrab

Naff.

Why can't the bike explode into flames upon crashing, incinerating the rider and causing him to disappear more realistically?

headcrab

@Fallible: Hell *YES* I want a new-gen Road Rash (I'm boycotting "next-gen", and current gen is too unwieldy... although I just typed it, so now this whole post is too unwieldy.. CURSES).

Road Rash on Genesis was one of my all-time favorites.

OOOO.. OOO... but you know what would be better? New-Gen SKITCHIN'!

MrBionic

@flukielukie: I dont think Xbox 360 users have much to complain about when it comes to getting updates first... So hold onto your panties and sit tight.

(I only have a 360 as well).

Thugmunk

Here's to hoping that they ditch the sandbox.

FEAST

...

I'm totally dookin' speechless. What's the point of playing a Burnout game if I can't see viceral, awesome vehicular crashes? Why not rename this game "Mister Fluffy's No One Ever Got Into A Motorcycle Crash Before Bike Game". I call T for Teen rated shinanigans!

Salen

Man, Criterion Games are proper PS3 fanboys, the game sold better on the 360 and yet they toss they're fans aside to give it to the PS3 first, Can't we have simultanious releases for the updates please.

flukielukie

How pathetically sterile. I love the Burnout series, but this is weak.

crapsh00t

@MrBionic: You want Road Rash... come to think of it, I want Road Rash. Let's see some next-gen Road Rash already.

Fallible

Why not just have a robot riding the bike that explodes? Oh well, still a great update for free...

supercrap

GTA IV did some wonderful ragdolling.

Wahrheit

Can't wait!

hamandcheeseUK

@FP_slomo788: Does a bike rider in Motorstorm do that? I've only played it on demo kiosks in EBGames, and didn't see anyone fly off a bike.

MrBionic

"you probably can't have ragdolls flying off bikes and slamming into telephone poles, the pavement, etc. So when you fly off the handle of your racing bike, you'll disappear, and the bike itself will stay fully intact."

then what the hell is the point?? burnout was about crashing/ and the brutal crash/ mess you made. if the bike is still intact then what the hell is it doing in a crash based game.

Milkzhakes

Oh, come on...what is PAIN rated by the ESRB, anyway? It can't be M. With all these explosions they should just have the bikers explode when they hit a telephone pole!

BAM

Arelan

Did they just miss the whole point of Burnout?

catapult37

@MrBionic: Motorstorm?

Sounds nice. Too bad (for me) Midnight Club is coming this year.

FP_slomo788

Hmmm... screw T for Teen, I want a game where you fly off your bike and bash into things.. and ... explode.

AO ragdoll bike racing!

MrBionic

Um, no. Paradise is still very much about the crashes.

As said, there's complete detachment. You're not actually a person driving your car, the car is just some magically controlled entity that you can use to wreak havoc. This is why there's no people on the streets of Paradise city.

Bikes kind of ruin that, as they'll probably add very little and remove the fun aspect which is the huge crashes and watching the destruction unfold.

Burguois of Arabia

Why is everyone calling this a cop-out? It's a huge, free content update! Besides, the fun of Burnout Paradise is discovering routes while zooming around at exhilarating speeds. Previous games in the serious were more about wrecking, but I prefer the direction they took with Paradise.

jettokisora

I love Burnout Paradise to death.
Bikes make me go "meh", especially with this half-baked implementation. While ragdolls in crashes would be great it just doesn't fit into Burnout Paradise.
To me the game has removed any personal attachement to the game, it's just cars and if you wreck just cars that's simple awesome, start wrecking people and you certainly have a new aspect to the game. Sometimes that's awesome too, but it's not for this game imo.

TetsuBo

@flukielukie:

They made the PS3 the lead platform, because it's easier to port from a PS3 to the 360 than the other way around.

Secondly, I wouldn't say ANYTHING about getting updates second, as is my experience that most of the time the 360 gets things at least a couple days early due to Sony's once-a-week update system.

Third, the number sold on the 360 vs. the PS3 has been greatly exaggerated. Yes, it sold more, but not by much let alone be enough to disown one platform for another. Pretty impressive considering that the 360 install base was larger and had a full year head start.

Fourth, well... I really don't have anything else to say, other than you're a drama queen and need to get over a couple days wait.

PapaBear434

To keep a T for Teen rating, you probably can't have ragdolls flying off bikes and slamming into telephone poles, the pavement, etc.

Uhhhhh..... YES YOU CAN.

Kenny

I was just thinking about buying Burnout Paradise, and then they said this crap about riders disappearing and bikes staying intact. I think I'd rather go get Speed Kings. It's cheaper and better.

P.S. Yes, I did rent Burnout Paradise and no, I didn't enjoy it. It also turns out I was the only dipstick with their Playstation Eye turned on. Go figure.

enigma89

I am alright with riders disappearing, but why can't bikes get smashed up? If a car can get totaled then so should bikes.

Quicksilver4648

Still a great game. QQ haters QQ

dashyt2dafulliz

@Burguois of Arabia: Are you honestly stating your opinion is more correct than his? Let him enjoy his own humor.

JKPierce

ehhh well thats just sucks... whats the point of it then?

Tha_Villain

maybe they should just have a gigantic pair of ragdoll breasts driving the bikes as this would surely get the teen rating over a scary violent animated ragdoll person flying through the air...wtf....the esrb is full of idiots

balls

@Burguois of Arabia: I definitely love the Manhunt and Road Rage events, but I think the focus is the gameplay leading up to the crash - the method and the manner. Not so much the result. I'm usually too busy hunting my next target to worry about damage modeling.

jettokisora

But Motorstorm had ragdoll crashes too. wtf

zaagis

And honestly, the game, as it stands, only takes 12 hours to beat (not 100%). This bike expansion sounds huge.

dowingba

Wow, I can't wait to race bikes in GOD mode. Yea, that'll rock or something.

Twisk

Burnout Paradise is rated E 10+. At least, my copy is.

dowingba

I hated the demo for this game.

Then I kept reading about people raving about the game. I picked it up used and now it's one of my favorite games this year. It took a while before I "got" the game, and even now, 65 hours in, I'm still learning new things. But now I love it and can see myself playing it well into next year with all the other free updates coming out.

The only really crappy thing is that the Cagney multiplayer update has been significantly delayed on the 360. PS3 players got it on July 10th, while it looks like us 360 players will finally get it Monday. It sucks that the delay for Cagney will push back the bike pack, but I suppose I'll have plenty to do in the meantime while I'm waiting.

Sean Beanland

@okenny :( ... not sure what to believe in anymore:

No, I think that's slightly off. They chose the PS3 for certain reasons, I'm sure. Maybe they prefer the structure of it, as they have figured it out and can take advantage of it, and also due to the easier job of porting.

Whatever the case may be, they'll get their update a couple days later than the PS3, so the X-Boys can take it easy for a few and they'll get it just fine.

PapaBear434

Dear Criterion,

How dare you give us three big, free updates?!? They aren't even simultaneously released on the systems! And how dare you add bikes to Burnout Paradise for free in one of those updates!? Not only that... but you got the free bikes totally wrong! Even though we haven't played it yet, we just know: because crashing is everything in Paradise. Driving? No one drives, you morons. And whatever excuses about needing to keep the game an E 10+ rating? Screw you. You should instead tell the ESRB to piss off cuz we want our free shit our way, not that legal crap that prevents you from doing so.

You suck and we hate you for the way you give us free shit. You assholes.

Sincerely,

Teh Internet

____________

I agree it would have been nice to see bodies fly... but come on. Keep in mind... Owen made a faux pas here... Burnout is E 10+, not T.

dv8godd

ummm flatout ultimate carnage has ragdolls flying all over the place and its a t rating so this guy is full of fucking shit

balls

In Motorstorm not only can you fly off your ATV or bike and flop around and hit things, but you also get run over.

Koztah

@dowingba: Define 'beat'. Get the Elite License? You can do that in 12 hours? Good man.

Legion329

@Thugmunk:
@PapaBear434:

There's actually evidence (hear-say mind you) to support the argument that Criterion prefer PS3 as a platform over 360. I've pointed out the episode in the past of 1Up Yours last year where Shane Bethinghousin (I know i just butchered his last name) clearly stated that when he went to Criterion for a hands-on-preview months before the game was launched, he saw that the 360 version of the game was getting neglected and he was assured that the PS3 would be the version to buy.

Now I don't know whether if it's safe to call the Criterion folks fanboys but a clear precedence has been set that the 360 is not a priority for them so you can't fault people from getting that impression.

As a 360 owner, yeah sure the 360 has been on the better end of multi-platform development and cases like Criterion are rare so even if the 360 really sees delays that make games come out late or poorer quality, it's not going to make people any less upset when their one the receiving end of that; you just deal with it. A topic like this is an excellent place to voice such frustrations so I do believe he's in the right to make his comments and others should be able to counter it without becoming patronizing.

I guess we all have a bad day sometimes.

okenny :( ... not sure what to believe in anymore

we pay good money to see carnage and shrapnel
GIVE ME MY SHRAPNEL LADENED ROAD RASHED FLESH ON FIRE

aznxmitsuko

Guys,

My guess is when they say bikes will "remain intact," think they mean that they will still be on screen, running into the previously mentioned telephone poles and sliding across pavement. Not that the bikes will just be impervious to damage.

PapaBear434

"To keep a T for Teen rating, you probably can't have ragdolls flying off bikes and slamming into telephone poles, the pavement, etc."

That's not true. The Flatout series features through-the-windshield ejections during crashes, as well as mini-games where the object is to eject your driver through hoops, into darth boards, and into bowling pins.

The Flatout series has all of that, and still maintains a stronger focus on racing than Burnout.

justhesh

I think its because EA are being big pussies about it. I know Crieton probably wanted to make the bikers crash and fly off but EA said "OH NOES!! WE WANT IT TO BE FAMILY FRIENDLY" or some shit like that.

Either way, that IS a big cop out for them to do that and should just the bikes out. If there is no blood or hearing of bones break, I don't see why it would go beyond the T for teen rating. God I hate the ESRB sometimes.....

neojames82

@jettokisora: I think that's why I don't go to Joystiq anymore.
Or Gamespot.
Or IGN.
Or 1up.
Or...

dv8godd

@mfwahwah: Ya I was about to say that it's rated E 10.

lenandude

@AEREC:

oh nevermind I see that Burnout is rated E now...but then again that seems kinda wierd since it's a game that encourages driving fast and crashing and obvioulsy killing yourself along with lots of other commuters.

Maybe Burnout should be rated AO since it's basically an Al Qaeda Terrorist Simulator =p

AEREC

:\

Pain, MotorStorm, and Flatout 2, which I remember seeing commercials for, advertising the game's many minigames based off of launching your ragdoll driver at various targets and whatnot. They could've kept this in probably, as long as his bones didn't break and crack all over the place, and they didn't show his dead body lying there for too long.

Mit

@okenny :( ... not sure what to believe in anymore: Actually, I thought the delay on 360 was due to Microsoft's Live content approval process? I know it's caused significant delays before. Could be wrong though.

jettokisora

Isn't PAIN (PSN game) rated Teen?

Thats a game where you laucnh a ragdoll charaters and try to hurt them as much as possible...not too mention the heavy sexual themes in the game.

Maybe since it's cartoonish it's ok?

AEREC

@dv8godd: Man, you've hit a little too close to the mark. If you think the comments here on Kotaku are bad, you should take a gander at Joystiq. Apparently, quite a few gamers are ungrateful twits.

jettokisora

@jettokisora: Content getting rejected because it's unstable or fails to meet guide lines (criteria known before hand) isn't necessarily something you would fault an approval process for but rather the content itself. I'm not sure either but I think I remember it having something to do with that.

We all have seen our fair shares of bugs and patches this generation so we know these processes aren't perfect but as a person who was heavily into PC gaming in the past, It's easy to see that there's a real benefit to them being in place.

@PapaBear434: You should have described them as "X-bots" since only fanboys would be upset in this situation. I jest... I jest! I actually think Criterion has every right to make the kind of games they want to make and it probably takes a huge company like EA to press down on them hard enough to do a multi-platform release and they've done an excellent job of it. Clearly it took more time and effort for them to get the PS3 version up but unlike most developers, they have something better to offer up because of it. The final results aren't that off-putting to me. It is what it is and we all just have to deal with it.

okenny :( ... not sure what to believe in anymore

Couldn't EA classify the bikers for use with online play only or something since the ESRB doesn't rate online games?

Molockian

@Len Bias Cocaine Surplus: No. And you don't need to, so quit the whining.

InsidiousTuna

@dv8godd: Or Kotaku. :(

InsidiousTuna

Can I reset a failed event yet?

Len Bias Cocaine Surplus

I liked Burnout Paradise alright, but the series is going in the wrong direction. At some point someone had told these guys that the best part about their game is the racing, not the crash mode. Whomever that was needs to shut the fuck up and let them go back to what made the game great rather than include crashing as a silly reward-free afterthought of a mode.

mwoody

@jettokisora: Yeah, I agree that it's not as rigorous as it could be because we are still seeing bugs. As far as it being a bitch, I've heard the same thing. I haven't heard it compared to other platform holders. Any insights?

okenny :( ... not sure what to believe in anymore

@okenny :( ... not sure what to believe in anymore: Well, my studio has worked closely with Microsoft in the past, and I understand that the 360 Live approval process is a bitch. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are especially rigorous. I've just heard it takes forever.

jettokisora

Kickass on the gender choice thing, seriously. Criterion deserve the Developer of the Year Award.

HikariOblivion

FlatOut.

Ping5000

I think they're just being bitches. Motorstorm did it and frankly Road Rash was doing it for years. They just didn't care

Tietsu

@okenny :( ... not sure what to believe in anymore: Unfortunately, no. We've never worked with Sony. That might be insight enough. :P

jettokisora

@dv8godd spits hot fire!: At least Gamefaqs still has a nice, viable community.

Oh man, I can't even say that with a straight face!

What's funny is, I used to visit a really nice board there, the one for Outrun 2 on Xbox. The people were all pretty cool. We had the top rankers in the world posting there, AND an employee from Sumo Digital. Lots of good conversations were had, and lots of tips were shared.

So, miracles do happen.

Billkwando

And right off my "To Buy" list. God damn nanny state.

SeedyROM

Tourist Trophy is rated E, and you can go flying off your bike and skidding down the road. (You can also lean into a turn and be smacked off the bike by smashing your head into something... lol! Real riders, take heed of your road position and try not to kiss any minivans!)

I think if they want to keep blood and dismemberment out of it, Skate would be a good system to copy. "'AIEEEE! *crunch*' You broke: left arm: 1, ribs: 4, head: 1, left leg: 3"

fuchikoma

I don't think I'll mind. The bikes should be fun, I wonder what new events will come out with it....too much to speculate....

Nubius

Geez, I don't see the point at all. Burnout = epic crashes. If these bikes aren't going to do that, why the hell even bother putting them in.

Motorcycles in Burnout = MONSTER FAIL!!

Cryterra

Who gives a flying fuck what system and when these updates come out? Even when something is free people find a reason to complain. Free> Nothing. Keep bitching and we'll end up getting nothing in the future.

globones

T rating? F that.

They shouldn't be so worried about it when it's DLC.

Lingxor

@globones: No! I won't be happy unless it come with a free copy of The Seven Samurai!!!

Billkwando

If we can have ragdoll crash physics in Skate. with full damage analysis afterward why can't we have it in Burnout?

geoffcbassett

@Billkwando: That sounds really cool, actually. It's great when communities like that appear, even if not for very long.

Though maybe it's sad that the experiences we have where everyone isn't running around being pissed off are the ones that stand out. I'd rather those be the norm and the ones where people go apeshit be the infrequent ones.

I don't know who it was that decided the intrawebs needed to be as annoying as possible... but in 100 years? People won't write books and movies about going back in time to assassinate Hitler... they'll write them about going back in time to kill that guy.

_________

@InsidiousTuna: Hey man... I've been grating nerves pretty constantly for the last two weeks. Hell... I'm even commenting on weekends now.

As long as Spoony doesn't let everything go tits-up when the gauntlet gets handed over (which I don't expect he will), then I don't plan on ceasing to grate nerves in the near future. ;)

dv8godd

@Len Bias Cocaine Surplus: when the updates with planes come, you'll be able to fly to any point on the map. so i guess that's like retry! :)

stargateheaven

*marketing point*

Billkwando

@dv8godd is goin' back to Cali:

Yeah, I remember when Xbox Live was in beta, and nearly everyone was helpful and agreeable. You wouldn't believe it unless you saw it.

People are probably going to write stories about going back and waxing the MS employee who thought Live's main market point should be "Talk trash to your friends!"

Granted, it would've happened anyway, but Microsoft certainly didn't help.

Billkwando

@mfwahwah: Wait so, planes were just a rumour? I could have sworn the devs themselves announced it...

Y2Jason

@flukielukie: the only reason ps3 is getting it first likely is because the 360 updates keep screwing up. bogart busted the game to the point where it was unplayable and the updates needed to be reverted and cagney was sent to msoft and a ton of bugs were found. so it's possible davis may come out at the same time. all of the updates were supposed to be at the same time.

i still don't get what you're bitching at though. it's a free update. you get it when it works, so what's the big deal, i mean you can have it now and break your system if you want.

VixDiesel

Flatout anyone?

Amazon_Chris

....another late expac? Seriously Criterion, wtf?!

Yofu

@Yofu: Not late, just coming to the lead platform it was developed on first, as opposed to held back while the 360 stuff catches up. 360 gets a lot of stuff first. We can wait for your timed exclusives, I'm sure you can too.

HikariOblivion

@Legion329: Beat. Beat the game. Get to where the credits of the game happen. It took me around 12 hours.

100% would require me to do the stupid stunt runs, so...ain't gonna happen.

dowingba

I guess you guys do have a point... Meh, 360 updates are like 100x faster than PS3 ones. That isn't even an exaduration.

I guess we did get CoD4 update nearly a month before the PS3 owners.

flukielukie

They really should have ragdolls, undamageable bikes and disappearing riders would look stupid and out of place with the dented and smashed up cars.

DragonNinja

I bought this title and was extremely displeased with it...I could begin to list it's faults but I'm afraid I'd run out of typing space

Dizqard

@fuchikoma:
Did you ever play Road Rash for the N64?
Man that game was awesome.

This seems like more of an easy way out for EA.
I mean like you said, sliding accross the road with no blood or anything really isn't to bad.

I just cant see that one detail bumping it up to E10+ or Teen.

Reikson

@Fallible: YES! Thank God I'm not the only one thinking this. I'm getting a nostalgia trip now. Excuse me, I'm going to listen to the whole Superunknown album now.

twinturbo2

@Dizqard: While I prefer the old, arcade style of Burnout games, this was the direction they had to go for this one. Burnout Revenge was the best possible arcade-style Burnout. There's no way they could have topped it. So they had to do something different.

At least they didn't half-ass it and make some crappy NFS clone or something. I was pleasantly surprised with how awesome Paradise City is. It's like every Burnout track from the previous 3 games stuffed into this little open-ended city.

dowingba

@dowingba: Yeah, how the hell do you do that? This may sound like a stupid question, but there isn't really a linear series of events to do in Burnout Paradise. What do you have to obtain to get the credits rolling? Elite license? A certain number of events? Snort some coke?

Legion329

Lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! kotaku is gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

freespeech1

Huh...As far as I remember, FlatOut was rated T for Teen and your driver would fly out through the windscreen and ragdoll off damn hear anything if you hit it hard enough. There's no reason why Criterion couldn't do the same thing and not preserve their rating. FlatOut had no blood, but it was still hysterical to watch the dude bounce off of trees, other cars, the pavement, etc.

Thothexy

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umasadha

Is there no one still working for Criterion that was part of the Redline Racer team? Sure, the bikes didn't explode, but you still could send your rider hundreds of feet in the air. In fact, using the course as your personal stunt track was the best part of that game. And that was rated E...

CaptainConfuzion

Apparently they have never heard of the Motocross Madness or the other MX/ATV games. All of them have had ragdoll riders after you crash...slamming into trees and whatever else is in their path. In Motocross Madness 2 if you drove to the edge of the map it would launch your rider halfway across the world into all kinds of things.

enKrypt

Wrong, wrong, and more wrong.

First off, the game is E10. Secondly, Criterion are trying their damnedest to get every update out at the same time for BOTH consoles. But because they're PS3 primary, that doesn't go according to plan. There will be NO timed exclusive crap for the PS3 version.

BigFoot44