It's official. PS3 is a failure! No I'm not a fanboy. I'm not happy to say that, but no matter how you look at it. No matter how you slice it. It's a fact. So many things went wrong for Sony. It was one thing after another. MGS4 was their last hope and not even Snake could save PS3.

Believe me, I wanted Sony to succeed with the PS3. I place the core blame on the price. That was the beginning of the end. Their downfall. It's what made loyal PS2 followers like me, switch sides (Xbox360) and I know hundreds who felt the sameway. They felt betrayed by Sony. Sony got ahead of themselves. They got arrogant and thought they could sell the PS3 at any price and we would fall in line and buy it. You thought wrong Sony.

Orionsaint

what a fanboy lol

tooji

Acclaim... ain't they dead? I thought so.

MartinSWE

Its funny that Acclaim filed for bankruptcy and shut down its offices in 2004, then change their name and came back. Acclaim is so small that you cant even find their revenue for 2007, SONY on the other end has made 88 billion this year and its not over yet. I think they can lose some more money on the PS3. [en.wikipedia.org]

Veltis

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: Good points, but do you really see "physical" disc media being the source of our home entertainment for the next, say 10 years? I guess there are a handfull of movies I'd buy on Blu-Ray, just to have the physical disc in hand. Beyond that I'd be just as amused to fork over the $5 and have them streamed to me in HD. It will be really interesting in 2 or 3 years to see where the PS3 is at.

Pornosaur

"This is going to force them to make the PS3 last longer and they're kind of positioning to do that"

ugh...dur...what the hell? Did captain obvious take the day off?

KeithCourage

David Perry doesn't see David Perry making money on the PS3, so I guess he's gotta talk smack. Whether the system makes money or not shouldn't be of any concern to him as a developer so long as his own games are on the system and making money. Now, here's the question: does David Perry have any games of note on the PS3?

Altersparck

@RaptureScientist: True that. PS3 still seems to be the cheapest and best quality Blu-Ray player on the market right now. Hell, it was half the reason I plunked down my money after owning a 360 already.

If Microsoft doesn't go blu-ray and there aren't any explosive reasons for the wide consumer base to buy a normal player, blu-ray should carry it along well enough. And besides, as the console gets older, the game base will grow - look how many titles there are on the PS2, in Japan especially.

It's taking a while as everyone adjusts to the new and more complex dev process, but everything will catch up.

Still, will this make the PS3 financially successful eventually? I don't know. I don't play with number for a living. I'm just the end user.

sir_carrot

Its all up to Sony for them to make good decisions later on.

shrek187

He must have forgot to take into consideration the fact that hardware becomes less expensive to manufacture as time goes by.

Scott3D

This coming from Acclaim.

Raziel Dune

@ak416: @RaptureScientist:

You're all wrong, DVD's haven't even been mainstream for 10 years yet

Blu ray will not replace DVD's just like minidiscs didn't replace CD's....even though minidiscs were better quality, smaller and had bigger capacity.....get a clue, blu ray will sell to the same niche market that minidiscs sold...before being killed off by already superior technologies, blu ray is too little too late, and too old to justify rebuying your dvd collection and replacing dvd players.

jigglypoofs

@Anaralia: When did I ever, EVER rip on John Romero? I've got the guy on MSN you fool. Not that that's any of your business.

@HikariOblivion: He is not even talking about games so how does that play a role? He is evaluating the financial situation of Sony and in its current state, they are burning money on the PS3...

@CitizenInsane27: Meh, I'm not saying he is correct or it will happen like this. I'm just saying that people are ripping on his statement for all the wrong reasons. "Oh this guy is at a company that sucks it at the moment, let's disregard anything he says" - this isn't the right way to respond.

Candlejack

Oh' if there is any game company that needs to talk about what isnt going to make money, its Acclaim....

Xuchilbara

@Candlejack:
Didn't he create the Cool Spot games too? BTW, I never found Earthworm Jim and MDK to be as good as they were hyped to be when I played them back in the day.

Anyway, I don't think Dave Perry knows more about Sony's finances than Sony itself does, really.

Combichristoffersen

While Perry's not inaccurate in his assertion of the PS3 development losses being greater than the PS2's revenue during its peak operating years, he's not factoring in the full effect of the main reason Sony was willing to lose so much during the console's development.

Blu-Ray.

Now, that's not to argue Sony will make money. They might, or might not. I wouldn't be the one to ask. But it's definitely important to recognise that Sony look at this console-- unlike both its predecessors-- as not only a gaming device, but a machine that provides them (as the chief participant in the BDA) a firm grasp on the licensing fees for every Blu-Ray release over the lifetime of the format. Toshiba has to date received billions of dollars in DVD licensing fees, and they continue to. Blu-Ray should be a similar bonanza for Sony, even if not immediately.

The point is that while the PS3 may never make money as a video game device, it will have helped Sony to acquire a significant revenue stream-- possibly larger than any they've received from gaming in the past-- from Blu-Ray. As the other Playstations weren't designed to push a media format, perhaps it's inaccurate to compare the PS3 to them.

PS to anyone who'd make fun of Perry-- yeah, Acclaim is not so good-- or good at all-- but Perry headed up the development team for Earthworm Jim. Show a little respect!

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@Candlejack: I'm sorry but.. People change. It's been almost a decade since he last made a good game, and in the world of technology, things are very fast. 10 years is almost two lifetimes. In the here and now, he is head of Acclaim, and someone who hasn't made a good game in, well, almost 10 years. It's not shitting on memories or anything, because I loved EWJ and MDK (and Messiah), it's the unfortunate truth.

In the here and now, he's the Acclaim boss, who hasn't really been in consoles too much as of late, and probably doesn't have any more evidence to his statements in this than any other PC developer :P

HikariOblivion

Dude Huge is prettier.

PEWPEWGreenLaser

Hah, irrelevant man is irrelevant!

GlibGamer

@PapaBear434: Agreed, well put BTW.

CitizenInsane27

Because when I want advice on how to outdo Sony's past massive success, I turn to Acclaim. How's that bankrupcy recovery going, guys?

Look, Sony made some missteps, but for the most part has recovered nicely. And if they know how to do anything, it's make a damn successful console that lasts.

They might not be top dog this generation due to the 360's head start and the Wii's casual appeal, but they aren't going to fail anytime soon either.

PapaBear434

@Candlejack: So its perfectly fine to rip on John Romero despite him doing some great things for gaming in the past, but David Perry is some sort of gaming saint and attempting to tarnish is holy name is blasphemy?

l2doublestandardskthxbai

Anaralia

@Candlejack: Yeah, so far, the monetary loss part is true. But I have to agree with everyone else on here that he has no place making comments about manufacturers at this point, as his company is a one more stock drop away from being useless. They DID make good games, back in the day, and Dave Perry did have his hand in a good chunk of them, but frankly, him and his company have done little to nothing since, and what they have done have landed badly and been financial disasters. Sony may be selling at a loss (which was the plan for the start) but they stick it out there for 10 years to eventually gain a thick profit. It makes logical sense, and I just don't agree that this guy is one to talk, and we all know Sony isn't going to blast him back, because it's just bad PR. I almost wish they would though, just because people are entitled to their opinions, which is a given, but some people have no taste in how they go about it.

CitizenInsane27

How dare any of you bash the company that brought us Wizards and Warriors. I don't know I guess he kind of makes sense. If Sony is really taking that much of a hit on each piece of hardware the money won't be made up anytime soon. I don't know if Blu-Ray really is ever going to light a fire under anyone's ass to buy the $30 discs as easily as people buy the $10 dvd ones. I think it's safe to say though that the PS3 is going to have a really long life cycle.

Pornosaur

@CandleJack: Honestly, I don't mean to disrepect someone for making it big in the 90s, but really let's take a logical look at these old "game gods" (and not just the washed up ones either)

Back in the day their studios were little more then a bunch of nerds making games in a really nice garage on budgets that don't even cost the cover of current day drink expenses. Kids(Ie: my generation) would pick up any old peice of crap.

While I am not saying Earthworm Jim and the like we bad games, I'm just saying "back in the day" developers had it easy and don't really know much in terms of modern day developement unless they have made that step and have succeed... Dave Perry was not so lucky.

He is however entilted to an opinion and probably isn't far off on this one, but it's just an opinion from someone who is clearly out of his league in the modern game industry therefore shouldn't go half cocked bitching about something.

That and media outlets shouldn't be reporting on it either because as of right now, Dave Perry is just a guy who used to do something neat back in the easy days.

Murdoc

@Candlejack: I think he misunderstood. Sony lost more money on PS3 hardware than they made on PS2 hardware, I believe. Of course I could be wrong as the info was kinda confusing, but I don't think they were talking overall. Sony made money off of DVDs, games, accessories that surely amount to more than $3 billion. And now Blu ray and games are expected to "save" them again. They were losing around $200 in the beginning of the PS2 too.

FP_slomo788

...And now we go back to Olie who's @ the Acclaim HQ...Olie, how many games is that company developing as of now?
Olie: "ZERO!"

...Thanx Olie.

AkikoMyazaki

hmmm.... controversial

happymedic

@jigglypoofs: I'm buying Blu-Ray. *sniff*

DukeOfPwn

When I clicked on the link, I read the first two words and stopped immediately (Seriously...'Acclaim Boss'). Why the hell should I listen to a nobody who is basically working for a failing company that went into bankruptcy? Come back when you can actually make profits then maybe...just maybe...someone will spare their time to hear you out while he or she is taking a crapper.

Kyouya

@jigglypoofs: Which is exactly why it won the "format war", yeah?

ak416

his assumptions may be landing near the ballpark.
but he's still talking with his dick out. for shame.

sqoon

Also, he worked at his own company Shiny Entertainment until sometime 2006, and IIRC he didn't do anything for Acclaim until after that, so I don't know why this is the most important thing about his statement. That was too recent of a change to make any significance. Acclaim sucked before that.

Candlejack

Has Acclaim ever made anything that was good enough to be mediocre in the past four years?

Amazon_Chris

The PS3 is supposed to be losing money--that's where it is in its lifecycle. 2 years into PS2's lifecycle, and it too was losing money.

BESIDES -if there was one company that should crawl into a corner and die, it's Acclaim.

bakagaijin

@jigglypoofs:

DVD's were the same, as soon as they lowered the price barrier, they became a 'huge success'.

RaptureScientist

@PSN-PLAY_B3YOND: He's Matthew Perry's brother. Can't you see the sexy resemblance?

Morpork

@Anaralia: They did, then got resurrected to make free MMOs.

HikariOblivion

@Murdoc: Yea, let's just neglect the work he did in the past and shit on people's good memories of oldschool PC gaming, mine included. You're so cool I want to marry you.

Candlejack

before he makes any comments on anything, that man needs to button up his shirt, amirite?

pandafresh

@Murdoc: And a lot of what's going with Perry. What a way to fall. XD

HikariOblivion

@RaptureScientist: ermm no ones buying blu ray either.

jigglypoofs

Acclaim are still around? I thought they'd crumbled into dust along with all the other mediocrity of the 1990s. Also, does this chump understand the concept of licensing games? Probably not seeing as his company has done fuck all worth mentioning for years.

Anaralia

I know I shouldn't care what he has to say

but it just...feels so right.

Ryumeka

@Candlejack : Eartworm What? MDK huh? That was over a decade ago, what has he done for us lately? Matrix? Oh right, right right, yeah he's someone to look up to and respect, he obviously knows what he is doing then.

Murdoc

Perry, leave the talking-out-of-your-ass business to analysts. Last I checked Acclaim wasn't so hot by the way, but who am I to talk about your financial situation, amirite?

FP_slomo788

How's this headline: "Acclaim Sucks Balls, Will Never Make A Profit, Ever"

Vault

This is the same as if Uwe Boll said that no one's going to watch the new Steven Speilburg movie.

DukeOfPwn

Wow, I don't think he's even remotely considering that if Sony doesn't release a console until 2016, they'll die a horrible death to whatever console Microsoft launches next.

Hell, Microsoft can just keep the 360 out forever (handily leveraging the lower cost for the next eight years) as well and capitalize on both markets if Sony pulls that.

Nirolak

@enigma89: Far as I know, Acclaim's been pushed down to the point of making free ad-supported MMOs. Free, and STILL noone with a brain wants to play their games XD

HikariOblivion

When did Dave Perry become ceo of Acclaim? Kind of explains a lot of whats going on with Acclaim at least.

Murdoc

@PSN-PLAY_B3YOND: Wow... Sony fanboys in full force. David Perry is the creator of Earthworm Jim most notably, also MDK. Do your bloody homework before you decide to comment on it.

Candlejack

You guys should listen to what he has to say, Acclaim knows a lot about not to make money.

ReignFury

it's lost more money than they made during the entire peak of the PlayStation 2

That would be pretty damn tough if true.

Candlejack

facepalm.gif

*sigh*

3Sixty

I think this guy forgot about Blu-Ray, whatever the losses of the PS3, Sony is going to be raking it in with Blu Ray Sales. players, and the inevitable Xbox 720 Blu Ray drive.

RaptureScientist

LOL who the fuck is David Perry? Does he work for M$?

PSN-PLAY_B3YOND

In Peter Griffin's voice: "...You basta'd..."

~~~Kawaii~~~~

AkikoMyazaki

Can someone let me know of any games that Acclaim put out recently that made a lot of money? I mean, he has to be stacking paper to talk this kind of shit about the people who would put his games on their system.

enigma89

Hear, hear! At last, someone with a working brain cell!

henri1kk

@HikariOblivion: exactly what I was thinking. haha

Stalkumi

he does know that prices to manufacture have dropped and will continue to do so right?

Nicevillin

... Acclaim? Bwahaha.

HikariOblivion

Well considering the financial report that showed that in the PS3's lifespan the games division has lost more money than it made during the entire ps2 lifespan I would say he made a fair enough point.

The ps3 clearly isn't going to be as big as the PS2 yet it would need a bigger amount of profit than the ps2 to break even. Seems pretty logical Sony aren't going to make anything off the ps3. Of course you could include blu-ray movie sales as part of the ps3's doing but then it gets messy.

So I would say he made a fair point but that he should have made mention of how if you included the success of Blu-ray it would probably make a profit. On the ps3, games, accessories etc though, yea no way Sony is gonna turn an overall profit.

Zim

@HikariOblivion: Agreed. Who does this guy think he is?

Swift_

@Thunder-1:
Actually, both the PS2 and the PS3 launched at pretty much the exact same price here in Norway. Both were expensive as fuck at launch.

Combichristoffersen

@Thunder-1: I agree, only an idiot or a fool has "brand loyalty" look at Nintendo shafting their hardcore customers, The Wii is just a money pit now they are releasing new advanced motion controller add ons?

look at Sony when they blocked imports and then hiked up the price in europe, and sold an overpriced blu ray player disguised as a games console, emotion engine anyone??

At present MS is kissing our ass but I know as soon as they start making tons of money they too will get arrogant and shaft us in the end.

jigglypoofs

wait...when did acclaim come back? i thought they died years ago o.0;;;;;

demonknightinuyasha

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: Good Point, I've always lived in fairly metropolitan areas where internet speeds were at least reasonable. One could argue though that "Joe sixpack" in South Dakota cares even more about the price of the $30 blu-ray vs the $10 price of the dvd. So for him not having the option for a streamed digtia download doesn't make a ton of difference. I just believe that if Sony is counting on selling their system as the blu-ray player it's not going to be enough at the end of the day.

Pornosaur

@dagamer34: Other players don't go for $1000 anymore. There are some cheap players that sell for a bit less than the PS3. The PS3 simply is the best quality one out in the market, hands down.

Candlejack

@stetsonblade: David Perry sold his company to atari (i worked with him once or twice but we wont get into that...) He was responsible for the earthworm jim games and a few other things. He never worked for acclaim till they ran into the ground and went bankrupt and sold the name... He bought the name so people would recognize it but sadly... he chose a pretty piss poor name... lol. Acclaim near the end of their lives was pretty bad and i wouldnt invest money in that branding =/

linadragon

Which is why Sony stuck in Blu-ray for a reason. It's pretty much the de facto Blu-ray player to buy because it's cheaper than everything else and Sony is going to 100% guarantee that future profiles will work with it. Plus, you get a free gaming system out of it.

However, the major reason why people interested in the PS3 aren't snapping them up yet is because a game console shouldn't be a dedicated disc player (DVD or Blu-ray) since the laser is less likely to be hard-tested for constant spinning. Plus, there must be SOME reason besides economies of scaling that leads Sony to sell the PS3 cheaper than every other Blu-ray player (remember that other players go for $1000, it can't just be because the PS3 is selling for a loss).

Regardless, I'll wait awhile until I see a redesign of some sort before shelling out money for one.

dagamer34

@Veltis:

If they follow the example of Korean MMO publishers I think they'll start making money soon.

CCCombobreaker

@periodical: True dat.

Seriously guys, if David Perry is so insignificant, why get so angry when he states a conjecture about sony's financial future? I agree that his claims are bogus and that he nor his company is in the proper position to critique any company's financial plans, but come on who really cares? Calm down and watch some Little Big Planet gameplay trailers!

Weasel3689

I want to see real numbers before I make a judgment on them and Microsoft. However, Nintendo doesn't need to show number since their products print just seem to money.

@PSN-PLAY_B3YOND: Matthew Perry's brother, funny thing happened on this one episode of Friends where Chandler... Ok, I'll stop there.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

Sony isn't going to lose. It just had a delayed start at the gun! Eventually, they'll catch up with Microsoft and Nintendo, and probably tie for 2nd with Microsoft (Nintendo's raking so much in with the Wii, it wouldn't be a stretch for them to win).

DukeOfPwn

@lumpi:

Whats your point? All you did was state facts that everyone already knew. They sell at a loss and make profit from software sales. PC manufacturers can't do that. They can't control the PC market. It's an open platform. Dell can't have PC game developers make games for Dell PCs and then charge a royalty for it like Microsoft, Nintendo, and sony do.

CCCombobreaker

Acclaim current makes ports of Asian based MMO's which are micro transaction and are ad supported and this has worked well.... Their games have a fairly good player base Both 2Moons and 9Dragons are pretty good games (bots and their other game are kinda meh...) They also are working on a game of their own that the gaming community has helped build which i thought was pretty damn cool :D

linadragon

@Orionsaint: "How to spot a fanboy", lesson #1: Ignorance Is Bliss.

Candlejack

@CCCombobreaker:
@rocketman919:

Sorry it was my mistake. Theres a nice link to an Acclaim recent interview, [www.worldsinmotion.biz]

Just a piece of the interview

In response to an audience member who asked if Acclaim is in fact making money, Marks admitted the company is essentially breaking even, but that is largely because it is still young and investing heavily in R&D.

"If you take out our investments, since we're making new games, we're not making much money. We're kind of breaking even," he said.

Veltis

@Orionsaint:

Wow get over yourself for a minute there, you were never a Sony fanboy if you criticize the price for a PS3, know how much a PS2 was when it came out? Of course not.

How exactly did Sony "betray" you anyways? Did they point a gun at your head and scream YOU MUST PAY THIS MUCH FOR OUR SYSTEM OR ELSE?

If you really wanted the PS3 to succeed (...) you'd know that the PS3 is still very young in terms of it's system life. To suggest that Sony is dying (which is pretty much the mantra of any Microsoft fan) is flat out bullshit.

Yeah they jumped the gun and got ahead of themselves, but they aren't going anywhere, fanboy.

Thunder-1

The cost argument brought up by console supporters is mostly a scam, for this very reason. First, the PS3 (and 360) cost nearly as much as a PC hardware upgrade. Secondly, they are sold under their value.

A PC hardware firm could sell PC's under their original cost and try to get money from game developers making games for their PCs as well. But nobody has done THAT, because in this environment the insanity of the plan becomes pretty obvious.

lumpi

@Orionsaint:

"I'm no fanboy."

Where have I heard this saying before?

remanance

@Orionsaint: Uh... yeah you are a fanboy, and how is anything official? Are you from the future?

The problem of the PS3 was not the price at all. That is proven week after week now with the PS3 having a clear price disadvantage yet outselling the 360 worldwide.

The actual problem was the lack of developer support. It was too little, too late. The PS2 had the same problem as well but it had over a year to fix it; the PS3 did not have that luxury. A year before the 360 was released, MS gave developers PowerMacs as their SDKs so that they could get a healthy lineup on release. Yes, the PowerMacs did not really reflect the actual power of the system, but it was close enough to get decent games out the door.

The PS3 on the other hand limped out the gate. There were far fewer games on release. There were fewer SDKs in developer hands for the PS3 on release than the 360 six months before release. That means that there was more than an 18 month development lead on software for the vast majority of studios. Especially for a non-traditional system like this, it was developmental suicide.

They've made great strides to close that gap as we've seen now, but we are still feeling its effects.

cowondinosaur

@Orionsaint: Dude, the full force of the Sony defense force is gonna come crashing down on you like a freight train. Just a heads up.

Malevolentburrito

@Orionsaint: 'No I'm not a fanboy' lol. Listen to yourself. What does it matter?

On-topic. Can I just ask why would one talk about this at GC conference? To what purpose does it serve? Is a keynote address, free reign for personal opinion. He's entitled to it and tbh I don't have any figures to counter claim or indeed support his views. Is it to lead onto new business models of flash-games and minimal dev costs or just something to talk about that will grab headlines.

Jpm

@Thorax: If my memory serves, no... he didn't create the concept, but I believe he led the team through production. Either way, yeah. All those guys involved definitely get a lot of kudos from me.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

Wow this coming from the guy who drove his own company and properties into the ground with incredibly poor financial decisions and he has the nerve to criticize Sony? HAHAHHA!

Thunder-1

@Z4N5H1N: Which, seems a bit puzzling - Acclaim themselves don't have the greatest reputation, so I don't see why anyone would want to buy the heritage.

HikariOblivion

He may be right; he may not be right. Regardless of his "rightness", why do we care what he as to say? This is not an attack of the article, it is relevant. I'm just not sure why David Perry thinks he is relevant.

stetsonblade

@Candlejack:

That's what I keep hearing. When this happens. PS3 will be successful. When this happens. PS3 will be the best selling console. When this happens. PS3 will take over. You wait and see. Well I'm still waiting. Come on already. Every year something is gonna take PS3 over the top. It never happens! I guess if PS3 sticks around long enough, maybe 10 years or so. It'll catch on.

Orionsaint

@Pornosaur: I'd argue yes. The general motion (at least in the United States) seems to be toward Internet throttling... or worse (and I believe pretty much all the major providers are testing it) bandwidth caps. We simply don't have the infrastructure in the United States for HD content to be digitally distributed yet-- at least, not primarily. And compared to the nations of the world that are ready for it, we're definitely at least ten years behind. The Bush administration (and I'm not bashing them, they certainly weren't the only administration to do so) have not prioritised pushing broadband speed in terms of infrastructure so much as they've pushed availability. America ranks somewhere in the twenties, worldwide, among nations in terms average broadband speed and price per speed unit. There are ways you could certainly take advantage of digital distribution as your primary means of receiving content-- say, FIOS, but those sorts of things are definitely priced in a manner that is prohibitive to the average American.

So, yeah. I do. Cheers!

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: Did Perry design and come up with the concept for Jim? I honestly can't remember. I seem to recall an extremely large and burly man being the visionary behind Jim, but I could be wrong. Either way Perry has a lot of respect from me for being a part of that team.

Blu-Ray will definitely play a large role in whether Sony can make a profit off the PS3. The only problem is whether or not it will be accepted more widely as DVD's, and the speed in which it is adopted may have a substantial impact on sales.

Long term, however, I think Sony will be fine.

Thorax

@Veltis: If you reaqd the article you linked to, sony has made 88 billion in it's lifetime revenue, not just this year.

rocketman919

You people need to take some time off the internet to chill.

periodical

@bakagaijin: Yep, I remember when the first PS2 come out with a price tag of $299 and everyone was up in arms about how expensive it was.

Dyvid

@Orionsaint: Yes, they got ahead of themselves, then pulled back and got some sanity, now they're doing fine.

I'm an Xbox-PS3 convert myself, because Microsoft REALLY got ahead of themselves and are still going mad :)

HikariOblivion

David Perry's logic is while the PS3's business model did forecast that it would lose money first and recoup it later, the losses that it has incurred are so great that it would have to make money faster than the most "successful" console of all time, the PS2, in order to actually achieve that because its current operating costs have exceeded what even the PS2 could recoup.

While there is some logic in that, it's not the whole picture. The PS2 really didn't make that much money. Yes, it sold the most consoles and games of any system ever, its profit margins were actually razor thin on games; it HAD to sell boatloads to make money. Just compare it to the Gamecube: both in consoles and games sold, the PS2 dwarfed it, yet the Gamecube made Nintendo far, FAR more money.

The PS3's software sales have a much better profit margin for Sony (not so much for developers because of the current cost of development), so basically this generation is a higher risk/reward. They're going to lose money faster (as they have) but it's also possible to recoup faster and with fewer units sold as well. Whether this happens before the next generation is hard to say, but current trends are looking pretty good on Sony's side. Just look at their last few fiscal reports, they went from reporting billions in losses to only a few million (and their overall gaming division actually profited).

cowondinosaur

@Orionsaint: Blabla when the PS3 drops to $299 you will be picking one up and so will the majority of (ex-) PS2 owners. Cut the bullshit dude. If the upcoming exclusives don't do it for you, that's perfectly fine, but the important games are rolling in for the PS3 so that once it's cheaper, people will likely choose it over the other consoles for one reason or another.

Candlejack

@Veltis:

Sony made $3 billion, not $88 billion.

CCCombobreaker

Just for posterity's sake, be aware...this is not the same Acclaim that made all the old-school games well all love. Acclaim Entertainment, the company responsible for those games, shut down in 2004. The name was bought by other people, who now call themselves Acclaim Games.

The latter Acclaim is the one this article is about, the former Acclaim is the one who actually made good games.

Z4N5H1N

@tzaketh: You don't need a new tv to watch bluray movies either. I watch them on my 10 year old 27" crt from walmart. I prefer dvds though cause I can rip them.

Ethan Halko!

He sounds like he's done and got him a fourth grade vocabulary.

jpneiswi

Lets not forget maybe the most important issue in all of this:

Who cares? So what if Sony's losing money? They're still gonna put out games. It's not going to affect any of us until 2016 or whenever the PS4 is due. By then i'd hope that the giant megaconglomeration figures out a way to keep in the games business.

Even if they fail, someone else will rise to take their place. Microsoft and Sony replaced the Nintendo and Sega rivalry afterall.

Big pile of whatever.

burgerdog

Read what i put in the ().

"Because of the cost of making the PlayStation 3(Next-Gen Games) and because they(we) sold it at a loss, Sony(Acclaim) basically has pretty much no chance of making money on the PS3(any console) , because it's(we) lost more money than they(we) made during the entire peak of the PlayStation 2(90s) - it's not going to happen again for Sony(us)."

See. Dosen't what he's saying make more sense now:)

limitt_45

I know its probably been said here already... but seriously? Acclaim?

If I want advice on how to make money, I don't think I'll be dialing up the company that wanted to buy ad space on people's tombstones.

Financial advice + Acclaim = living in a box.

That said, he may be right. Sony has a bit of an uphill battle at this point given the reported losses they've had per system. But something tells me they'll work around it.

2NinjasTapedTogether

@FP_slomo788: **or even move half at least consoles

FP_slomo788

I dont get it when people say that Blu-Ray will simply die when infrastructure for online downloading becomes more robust (which wont be happening anytime in the near future with the way US ISP's are behaving). Besides what are people gonna be storing this information on? Thin air? Blu-Rays format potential lies not in its high def video delivery capabilities but its seemingly unlimited abilities as a economically viable storage medium. We've already heard that 200gig discs are definately possible for retail. Looking at the cost efficiency its way more convenient that a bulkier hard-drive option and dont even bring up SSD as that wont be having major price drops at that capacity anytime soon.

Sony took a gamble with this one, they won the format war, its probably gonna pay off. The guy from Acclaim cant see what financial benefits the PS3 will give sony from a gaming aspect, but thats only in the gaming aspect. The clown who mentioned minidisc earlier didnt take in any consideration that Minidisc fast during the early 90's nor the fact that unlike Minidisc, Sony now has a home entertainment juggernaut backing the format.

I have always believed that those who reap the largest benefits in the technology business are those who have an eye for the future. Gates and MS did with its belief in a cheap and reliable OS on an open format unlike OS/2 from IBM, Apple's firm stance on converged appliances, Sony is doing the same with Blu-Ray and the PS3. Perry doesnt understand this hence his achievements are in the past, like his ideas of the industry

TotaleeAwesome

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): "Because of the cost of making the PlayStation 3 and because they sold it at a loss, Sony basically has pretty much no chance of making money on the PS3"

That statement itself warrants the reaction of most people here. It might be the same if Sir Howard said it, but Sir Howard is not a CEO of Acclaim. Maybe if Steve Jobbs said it we'd actually take him seriously. Sony lost about the same money on PS2 sales at first, and look at where they are now. PS3 was expensive, but it's $400 now and it's one of the cheapest BD players out there. The same BD that is leading the next generation format wars, for now at least. If he had expressed ideas like "it will be harder for Sony," or "Sony has even more to prove than before because their fanbase between PS2 and PS3 is not the same as between PS2 and PS1" I'd agree %100. But his facts are spinned (the "they lost more than they gained last gen" thing) thing and his conclusions are debatable to say the least. No one here is saying Sony will win anything, or even more half at least consoles as last gen. More is at stake for Sony, that's sure. But many things are in their favor, mainly the PS Store (both videos and games), Home and of course BD, that they don't have to "share" with Toshiba. It's arguable that even HDTV sales have been affected by PS3 (and of course 360), and Sony has a part in the HD biz. Knowing all that, an Acclaim CEO that says "Sony is the doom" is asking for backlash.

FP_slomo788

If I recall correctly the new Acclaim is completely unrelated to the old Acclaim, but the fact they saw any value in that brand whatsoever doesn't give me much faith in their business acumen.

MattB

Perry quote: "the best piece of hardware, without question"
Earlier Perry Interview

I doubt he's wrong but has this been taken out of context? I mean what exactly does he stand to gain from pointing this out? I've got a PS3 and doubt it's disappearing any time in the next 5 or 6 years so what's the fuss?

If anything it seems he's just doing what everyone else does, make a fuss to promote the company and get his name back in circulation, no biggie, everyone seems to do it right now.

mikeleddy83

@RaptureScientist:

You didn't need a new TV to watch DVDs.

tzaketh

@jigglypoofs: Eh? you can fit 700meg on a cd, but about 90megs on a minidisc? don't know the exact amounts, but you are a fool!

This shit doesn't happen overnight ya know! Blu-Ray has a long way to go, but i can see it being the number one format in a few years.

GOD

doesn't that guy have a pet koala?

bognovotch

last time i checked the PS3 has been only out a little over 2 years now and is increasing in sales each year.

Did he also forget that Sony is a hardware company and just like the ps2, they will continue to find more cost efficien ways to make ps3's?

what i wanna know is what the hell did Sony do to him that he felt that this information was so important that he had to address it at his company's keynote.

Shoulden't he be trying to convince the world that his company is still relivent to the gaming industry?

limitt_45

Shorter this thread: "I could go into an analysis of the massive losses Sony has incurred in its attempt to become a loss-leader, and the possibility of them recouping this through licensing or blu-ray sales, and compare that against Perry's claims."

"Or, better yet, I could go off in a completely irrelevant/illogical tangent and throw out some really bad non sequitur jokes/insults. That would be better than making a point, it would be, like, making a SUPER POINT. Because Acclaim smells funny."

Fnor

how about this for a quote acclaim is just jealous that they arent alowed to go near and game developers anymore for being so arrogant in the past so they will never have a chance to make a console game again...

KyleBC14

Wtf, this kotaku "story" is just copied and pasted directly from the linked website. Awesome.

emulsifier

@gravyleaves: Well people are just quick to forget how bad DVD player/disc prices were in the first few years. In comparison, Bluray is not doing too poorly, especially with that whole format war.

Anyone remember the PS2 when it was $350 and considered the cheapest DVD player? Yeah, it sucked balls for it too. It still does. The first disc I tried in it didn't even play (I'm not going to mention it because it's somewhat embarassing, however it, along with many other movies, are well documented as not playable on the PS2).

Conversely a $400 PS3 is the best bluray player on the market.

Disc prices are also dropping faster than DVDs. If you hunt around you can certainly get most movies for $20 or even less sometimes; that wasn't possible in the first years of DVD (there were few internet retailers with lower overhead costs).

cowondinosaur

You know people... not being qualified to make comments has never stopped anyone from making comments. Most of us have a hard enough time managing our own personal finances before even considering ourselves as CEOs or financial mavens. Truth be told, Steve Jobs is making Apple money right now but he almost ran it into the ground (thinking ahead of his time?). Another important page from history hit's closer to home with Nintendo. I'm sure pre-Wii, Iwata's words would be scoffed at as well. Maybe we shouldn't evaluate things based on preconceptions and generally loaded perceptions. Perhaps we should use wisdom when evaluating a statement. Would these words have any more or any less barring if Sir Howard himself spoke them? If so then why but if not then why not? Is the reasoning to your own personal conclusion concrete or are you just not qualified to assess the statement. We can continue to be fanboys and just clearly state we are taking emotional stance on a subject but let's not confuse the matter with counter-statements that have little to no bearing on reality whose only support is a cheaply made personal attack.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@Orionsaint: Way to turn the thread into a stupid fanboy war. Thankfully this is Kotaku, not Gamefaqs, so unsuccessful troll is unsuccessful. Continue down this path and you'll get disemvoweled before you can say "Sony."

FP_slomo788

@cowondinosaur: Wait whut? One of the reasons that PS2 DVD drives were dying is that because games do NOT constantly keep the drive spun up, where as DVDs do...

PEWPEWGreenLaser

@FP_slomo788: Correctamondo! Mother****er! (In Samuel L. Jackson's voice)

I love Dave Perry. Possibly one of my top 10 developers of all time, but I don't think this comment holds any water. The PS3 is selling a shit load more than what the PS2 was selling over the same period of time. People said the exact same thing about the playstation 2...

It's funny how we see history repeating itself, yet we act like this kind of thing has never happened before.

I'm sure sony will make a shit load of money from the Playstation 3. Maybe even more than the Playstetion 2. It's hard to see for alot of people commenting on this, because when the Playstation 2 came out, 8 years ago, I'm betting that most of them were in their early to mid teens or even younger and didn't care too much about industry news. The Playstation 2 had one hell of a rocky start, and many saw it as the fall of sony...

What the hell did they know ay?

Sony have already started to turn a profit. And within two years of the consoles release.

GOD

david perry shouldn't throw stones when he lives in a glass house.

isn't that right, david perry? ISN'T IT?

joeloliol

@Orionsaint: First of all this topic is about the profitability of the PS3 in the future and not its comparative success compared to other consoles.

Second, are you miss cleo? Do you seem to have knowledge of ever single decision by Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo? At this point your prediction is as good as any.

Finally, what exactly is the measure of a console's success? If it is sales, then the Wii must obviously be the winner despite the constant storm of shovelware. If it is quality of game then the entire purpose of comparing consoles break down due to the relative nature of quality in different consumer's expectations. A soccer mom may see the wii as the greatest triumph in gaming history if it will continually bring games that appease her children without violence.

Give me a break fanboy.

Weasel3689

@HikariOblivion: It is strange - a little like calling a new energy company "Enron" or a new bank "IndyMac".

I do, however, have eternal admiration for the way that Fishback and friends managed to work it in the last few years, truly financial lemons from lemonade. Maybe this is the mojo DP is going for?

MarionBarryHussein

Seriously? I think he should stick to making games...cause everything he has touched since EWJ and MDK have pretty much sucked.

Not that he isn't entitled to his opinion, but you the whole "glass houses" thing and all.

-EDGE-

@DukeOfPwn: He actually did say that Postal would make more money than Indiana Jones

CousinWalter

why is everyone screaming about how expensive blu ray is? i own a good 40+ movies on blu ray (8 still in shrink wrap....) and the average price i paid for each one is 20$. Don't buy from retail stores unless there's a sale. Places like amazon always have them for cheap.

Yeah yeah it's not 10$ like dvd but for >4x the quality I'd pay the 10$ premium anyday

gravyleaves

@dagamer34:

Actually console drives should be more durable (I'm not saying that they are though... because generally they are not) because there is a lot more seeking involved than a movie disc, which is all sequential data. Both do constantly spin however. Although, consoles again do more work as they tend to spin faster.

The funny thing about the PS3 and Bluray though is that not that many people buy it as a dedicated player apparently, probably due to low bluray sales in general compared to DVD. Just look at the software attach rates. It's lower than the 360 but not low enough to conclude that a great portion of the install base is using it only for a bluray player.

cowondinosaur

@dagamer34: Newer blu-ray players have dropped quite a bit in price last i checked... One from sharp goes for $369.99 .... Sylvania for 280.... The most expensive i can find is from Phillips at 800..... SO there are cheaper players out there then the PS3 costs now (getting into whether or not you add the game system into the value and the profile updates etc) the PS3 in a sense has more value but at the same time there are going to be cheaper players very soon... The most expensive one includes HDMI...

Still there are ceaper players so *shrugs*

linadragon

pretty boy with no brains.

animexplorer

@Candlejack: Earthworm Jim was a POS franchise. Glad to see it still alive and kicking today just like Mario, Sonic, TMNT, shall I continue?

drunkentyger

PS4 has to come out within the next 8 years, due to competition more than likely coming out with something within the next 3-4 years. Though it's a relatively short lifespan, this generation is going to be pushed to it's limits unlike prior generations.

As for whether or not the PS3 is going to make money? Considering the Xbox 360 can't take hold in Japan until more recently, and that the Japanese still don't love the console- as well as the PS3 price cuts and the like in other territories, they could overcome the 360's lead against them. Add the new IPs going to sell systems, and the fact FFXIII is still coming out on the system it's possible that they can make money off of all of it.

JGab

@ReignFury:

Brilliant!

pastepunkjames

@RageKage: Indeed I shall, cheers good sir. Damn Enter The Matrix was a horrifying experience, the dodgy animations, the wack driving sequences, the "I so dont care about these idiots give me more neo and smith action". Yeah, so many memories.

TotaleeAwesome

Look at the xbox! It was sold at a loss and it eventually made profit. now with the 360 it is also showing real profit. atleast i'm using real world examples. This guy is using pure speculation!! Companies pay this guy?????

Xtreme_Hindu_Cow

@GOD:great point. I was always of the impression that the gaming business model was to sell the hardware at a loss and gain profit from games and accessories? Also, two of the reasons bluray won the format war was people

a) Porn Industry backed it

b) it's in every PS3 sold which means that over 10million people have bluray DVD players just from the PS3 alone.

David Perry, I used to like this guy back in the day but he's made so many dumbass comments in the past and this one is up there with the rest. Considering the PS2 is still selling and is still being supported well past 100million units sold, I don't understand his logic or his numbers. He speaks as if the PS3 is going to be a failure this early in the game. Good to see his time machine still works. I didn't get the dog pee out of mine so it's busted.

Hey didn't David Perry back the Saturn and said it had superior development than the PS1? Even though the rest of the industry, even Sega themselves (using flowery language) said Saturn was a bitch to program for especially to maximize it's potential? How'd that turn out?

David Perry? What has he done for gaming lately that was great?

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

I couldn't disagree more.

Xemnas

David Perry helped make Enter the Matrix.

Enjoy your fuel.

RageKage

no chance of making money? what an idiot!

by the way, how very kotaku of you to post this.

argosy

I don't like Dave Perry. I think he belongs to the same school of blowhard as Peter Molyneux - people who are more famous for being public figures making controversial statements than any of their respective recent games.

That said, I read the statistic about Sony losing more money already in the PS3 cycle than the PS2 made elsewhere, before GDC, before Dave Perry said so. He got the stat from the same place the other stories did - NPD. Whether you like NPD or not, there's a good chance the story is pretty accurate - and the bleeding hasn't stopped yet - i.e. Sony is still making a loss. This is not the same as the PS2 lifecycle - the PS2 had turned a corner at this point, and it never lost as much money as the PS3, even on day 1 - it just wasn't as expensive to make, even in inflation adjusted dollars. I own a PS3, a PSP, a PS2, a PSX - I like Sony but the fact that they're losing money is still a fact. Good thing they have the deep pockets to ride it out. They'll be making profits soon enough, but it will be a long time (if ever) before they recoup the lifetime losses of the PS3 on game (hw+sw) sales alone.

As other people have pointed out, the BD alliance did win the HD format war, and the PS3 had a big part in that, so who knows how that gets counted.

sethk

I don't know who this guy is, but I'm not sure he's exactly qualified to make these kind of statements. Lots of what he said seems to be exaggerations and guesses in the guise of facts. Good salesman he may be, perhaps, but gamer? Somehow I doubt it very much...

Shadowmist

I'm just going to assume that he nothing else better to say during his company's keynote.

XeroKool

Let's all get angry for no good reason.

CCCombobreaker

@FP_slomo788: Fine words my good man!

Sony is a fucking large company. Movies, music, video games, camcorders and so on. SCE have released a product that will aid the other branches of sony such as Sony pictures, Sony BGM and so on.

GOD

oh, how I love execs of terrible gaming companies offering their two-bit piece of shit advice on financials of others. hey, am i supposed to be excited about bmx xxx and horrible last gen turok games? fuck this guy.

dreamfall

David Perry is an old glory.He did a couple of succesful games back in the Genesis/Snes era.Alladin for the Genesis and The Lion King for both.

Thats all.

Oh ,and back in the day he praised the Saturn no end saying it was "pure sex" and despised the Playstation.

A true visionary as you see.

Frankly ,he doesnt know what he is talking about.He is using public domain data and estimations.Good luck Sony knows better and they have already had two quarters in black.

Iberianpower

What this guy forgets though is the PS3 has completly succeeded at the big thing it was meant to do--make Blu Ray win the format war.

Sony basically sacrificed the playstation brand for the Blu Ray victory, and hey, thats good because the PS3 is still getting some great games whether its making money or not.

Although, it is interesting to think how things would be right now if the PS3 had a DVD drive instead of a Blu Ray drive...if it launched at $399.

fenderfuel08

Since we all know the amazing success story of Acclaim, Sony would be stupid not to take his advice.

Rubezh

@TotaleeAwesome: I like your take on viable storage of a blu-ray. if anything a cheaper blu ray burner is intriguing. Backing up data is paramount in our digital society. I, for one, am very against digital downloads because they aren't very viable. People's software can crash very easily, data gets lost, people want ways to backup everything. burnable blu ray sounds great if it can last a long time. digital data on a hard drive may last only 4 years.

Xtreme_Hindu_Cow

Wow, way to be biased assholes.

Assuming he's right about the PS3 losing more money than the PS2 ever made, I'd have to say I agree with him. Sony is going down a difficult road.

But what do I know? I'm even more unknown than he is, so my opinion obviously doesn't matter to my fellow Kotaku readers.

MouseCircus

Perry Dawg's Log, calender date 2-3, 0-8, 2-0-0-8

After a rousing constitutional to Krispy Kreme's, I accepted a bet from Fred the guy who fills up our Mountain Dew vending machine...mmm..Dew. Anyways Fred bet that I couldn't receive more death threats then that yahoo who made the Tower bombing Space Invaders game. I instantly applied a thick porridge of lung butter to my palm and we sealed the bet right then and there, with a slimy handshake. The only catch was I couldn't break any laws, not that I needed to. You see pristine Perry ain't nobody's fool. I knew all that I needed to do was take a shit on someone's golden calf and the death threats would start rolling in like fat people to a Golden Corral's grand opening. Yugghh, fatties. Moving on, I had the perfect shiny moo-cow in mind. One who's mouth foaming, wild eyed worshipers would rally to defend at a moments notice and strike down (in their emails at least) any heretics. Sony and their money pit of a PS3. A quick twenty minutes invested with Microsoft Word and that bug eyed paper clip creature and the laser guided poo missile was ready. I emailed the critique of the PS3 to some bong smoking game journo types and not three hours later my inbox is filled with multiple promises to kill my f@gg0T ass. Of course the next day at work after we tallied the number of threats to my life I had won and Fred owed me a massage. Beautiful.... beautiful almost as much my chiseled man chest. YEA, I LOVE MY JOB!

LanciePants

@CousinWalter: The funny thing is, I actually never heard about that! I was just pulling a comparison out of my ass. Shocking, though.

DukeOfPwn

@HikariOblivion:

Yeah, Dave perry is an expert at financing.

Hatchetforce

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: I don't understand his logic or his numbers. He speaks as if the PS3 is going to be a failure this early in the game.

Actually, I think that's simply what most want to take out of the comment. I don't think he meant that at all, but for news to be news we have to make it juicy. Why else would we be inclined to comment? I'm sure there is more to the comment that just has not been posted, so its hard to tell where stands, well... and the fact that he has yet to clarify his stance.

R3load

@HikariOblivion: Truer words have never been spoken... Bwa ha ha!

bobtheduck

@Xtreme_Hindu_Cow: Xbox never sold at a profit. MS lost 4 billion dollars on it and couldn't forget about it fast enough. Why else do you think the 360 came out a year early?

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@TotaleeAwesome: great post! I agree, let me add that if people think that digital distribution is going to be the standard in 10 years they're dreaming. Most people still don't even game in HD...some of these same people can't get stable connections for SD downloads and there are still a large number of people using dial-up. A 2GB download can still take up to 5 hours on some broadband connections and some of you people think Bluray is going to be irrelevant in 10 years time? Good luck with that belief while you wait 48 hours to download that HD movie.

The reality is infrastructure isn't stable enough for full digital distribution and won't be for long time. Companies are already pissing and moaning about monthly bandwidth usage now and trying to cut back on usage from consumers. Full digital distribution is still a fairy tale. When we all can get T3 lines for 50 bucks a month and at least a 10TB HDDs for 100 bucks, come talk to me about digital distribution. Until then...enjoy your blu-rehyz...

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Poor David Perry.. so much hate bullshit talk of stupid childish fanboys for simple words of truth...

Nexus-6

You know, he should have said this last year when the internet as a whole would have just sat and collectively nodded their heads in agreement. It would have been great PR back then when the collective was in a full on hate PS3 festa. Now with the splintered factions, this is just another shot into the shit farm and no one will notice nor care except for the most prideful of fanboys mulling over the next planned strike against the other camps.

Over in the Xbox 360 fanwank camp: "Guys, some Perry guy said PS3 is doomed."

"Yeah?"

"Yeah!"

"Too the artillery cannons! Lets show those fuckers one for!"

Over in the PS3 fan wank camp: "Guys, the Xbox boys are coming!"

"Get the shields ready! Long live Lord Sackboy!!!"

Also, what was the last relevant thing David Perry has done? This is like an actor making comments about a movie studio twenty years after he stopped acting in movies. Get with the times Perry, make a game worthwhile, and make us care.

Black-Dog-Howls

@FP_slomo788: Very passionate bunch huh? :) Perhaps this is one of those cases where people get worked up over a misunderstood point. Of course the first failure in understanding is the loss of composure as we see time and time again in these venues. That aside though, maybe he strictly speaking of the PS3 as a hardware element and not the software platform it facilitates? Maybe not I don't know. It's just when I read that, I thought back about all the issues and investments Sony had to make in bringing the PS3 to market.
- Poor first year sales
- Premature price cuts
- Cell manufacturing issues
- Bluray manufacturing issues
- Bluray format wars
- More potential price cuts to stay competitive
I don't know if this guy is right or not but his statement if prefaced with the cost of the PS3 and the amount of revenue it generates on the sales of the hardware is any indicator, they have a long road ahead of them. Regardless of what I think, it's a plausible argument and so is yours.

Clearly people can have these plausible arguments and they can state them rationally. I made my original post because the gaming community is becoming less and less of a place to make arguments and have an open dialog. Anything thing generally devolves into a flame ware these days and personal attacks are the "counter arguments" of choice. We all seem to be falling into a trap and being controlled like weak emotional puppets and I'm sure that's not what we want to be. I'm sure we have better reasoning skills then we seems to be demonstrating.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

david perry from acclaim?

as in the company we wish didnt exist after the mortal kombats on the 16bit system??!?!!!really????

dont be sad david because you guys are has been broketards!

leave the gaming scene and we will forgive you!

no seriously how much did they pay you to say that? come on you can tell us, we are the internet!

lonesn1per

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): wow..just wow...you just summed up my general feelings for the industry today. Back in the day, there was a time when you could be a Master System owner and Sega fan but still appreciate the NES for the Tecmo Bowls and Marios of yesteryear. Just as NES fans could still respect Shinobi and Space Harrier along with other Sega greats because it was more about playing quality titles and having fun or more important, playing what you could afford and getting the rest at a friend's place.

Now, it's a pissing contest. Supporting a given console is a cause and defending it is religion. If you don't like the flavor of the month then you're quickly labeled a fanboy. Informative dialog isn't even possible with many people. it's a shame because I remember the times when it wasn't like this. Talking to people in general about our pastime is proving to be an exercise in frustration. If you don't like what others like then the flames come. If you give legitimate reasoning behind why you will or won't support a console, you're still labeled a fanboy. It's a no win situation...like religion.

The worst part, and I see this a lot in the mall in philly when I go into a Gamestop and someone asks a question about a console and the employees will be absolutely wrong with their information. Wild speculation, misinformation, rumors as truth...it's embarrassing. If you bring it to their attention, they figure their information is gospel because they work in retail and "it's on the computer." They will then argue you down even if the information is totally absurd (like God of WarIII listed as a fall 08 release for 360 just as an example)

It's to the point where, personally, gaming conversations are getting handled like religious conversations or political conversations. Generally if I don't know you then don't talk to me. If the topic isn't worth it, I won't bother. Too much stress otherwise dealing with the flames.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@dagamer34:
The PS3 is not the cheapest Blu-ray player anymore. Samsung has a profile 2.0 player for about a $50 cheaper than a PS3. And Magnavox has a profile 1.1 player for about a $100 cheaper than a PS3. And both of these players are sold at Wal-mart.

Antic791

@GOD: read my above post, I know things change, it's you who seem to think it will all be the same with blu ray as it was with DVD's vs VHS.

on demand is the future....get used to that!

jigglypoofs