@Hand_O_Death:

Now that is a question for the ages isn't it?

Kiyosuki

I still maintain that if someone has to tell me it's about the war strategy, it in iteself isn't effective. And that sense of futility could be elicited without pulling the shock value of using the world trade center. Basically, the piece of art showed me the world is a shitty place. I already could see that in the news. While I respect that man's right to free speech, and his own opinion, I certainly don't feel his art left the world a better place. But what do I know?

AllegraStreit

As a graduating art major this fall term, thank you Mr. McWhertor!

Let's not get it twisted, sure there is horrible and bad art out there. I don't think it's fair to judge all art by one single piece. There is a wide variety of subject matter out there. You kind of have to know about art in order to judge it. You have to learn how to read it. I am by no means a pro. That's why the art scene is limited to itself, not because it chooses too, but because it's not as easily accessible to everyone like games.

ShizzleBeef

@turd_fergusonx: That's what I was just thinking, it's amazing that a couple of years ago people were willing to accept something that at it's core was intended to make money off of the incident.

Klopfer123

My only question is; If he had family that died in that incident, would he still have put art over the feelings of the victims family's?

Hand_O_Death

@3inst3in:
Nice, beat me to it!

Also, am I really gonna lose all my south park quotes in a couple years?! That sucks.

ca$h

While I don't support this type of "art", I think it's a shame that people condemn this but praise a major motion picture that made millions of dollars years ago that was the same thing.

turd_fergusonx

@jackal888: There is a difference in impact between tragedies caused for strategic gain in war and tragedies caused for no reason...

Example of tragedies for strategic gain...
The Nuclear Bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
Your example of the burning of the White House.
War in general.

Example of tragedy for no reason...
9/11.
Genocide of the Jewish Race/Religion during WWII.
Genocide in general.

The reason is how it effects victims and their families. People have a much easier time accepting tragedies if there is a reason, even if it is a poor reason. When a tragedy occurs and there is no reason for it, people feel lost. That is why I feel something making light of that kind of tragedy isn't the best decision an artist can make. At least not for 22.3 years...

Aex

Is this available at retail? The NY Daily News (not the best source for factual reporting) is making it sound like it is although my common sense tells me otherwise.

TSlade

I love how most of America can make fun of any situation where they aren't directly affected.

Ryumeka

Am I the only one who views this as simple and effective? In the game, regardless of how much violence and force you exert onto the enemy you still lose. The artist used the WTC attack imagery because it was the catalyst that caused the USA to take actions in Iraq and Afghanistan in order to purportedly root out terrorism. The artist is making the statement that these actions are futile because no matter how many tanks and bombs we throw at them terrorism is still going to exist, making it always a losing battle.

OUberLord

Wait, something in the article needs to be fixed:

"The artist's statement describes Invaders! as 'n rtcltd nd crtcl cmmntry bt th crrent wr strtgy.'"

Much better.

Oddly enough, disemvoweled asinine sensationalist ramblings are much easier to read.

phinehas

@dowingba: right cos great art is never politically motivated >.>

noliferuin (PSN+XBL)

@elementary:

I realize all that but I still can't help but feel like the artist's intention is still pretty simple. Either that, or the goal he had in mind is pretty straight forward. Which is that the work has no pathos or answer to it, which in turn does basically mean it's main goal is just to stir controversy.

Now mind you, I don't think that goal is necessarilly a bad thing like some people seem to think. When you stir controversy it makes conversation happen like what's going on here. I think the idea that something is just flat out wrong just because it does an admiteedly cheap tactic of getting attention I don't think is necessarilly true all the time. Regardless though my personal take on this is that it isn't really all that complex. I do see where the message of no matter what you do, the buildings still come down is coming from, but I don't think a lot of people need to be reminded of that.

Urging some people to abandon the us against them mentality is definitely something worth getting out there though, though I don't know if this necessarilly is going for that or not.

Kiyosuki

The thing about art is that it is meant to cause discussion. Some people will like it, some people won't, others may find it controversial or simple. In the end an artist's motive is not always to make something "pretty" that people will hang in their living room (though some artists want to do that). What an artist is after is the creation of something that will result in a discussion about the piece.

Some pieces are obvious (The Scream) others are more complex (pretty much anything by Polock). But the truth is art is about emotion, discussion, and human interaction. In that perspective I feel the piece succeeds.

RBecho

@mrWalrus: No, this art is not a game. If it were trying to be a commercial product, or were at least trying to be fun, I'd be inclined to agree, but it's clear that this designer wasn't trying to make something fun. He was exclusively trying to express his message, rather than attempting to make a game. There's a difference, which I think might be a cause for a lot of misunderstanding.

As for the installation itself, I think the true issue is that, for some people, it will never not be "too soon". Whether or not one views this as artistic is really up to the individual, and you have to take the fact that some people will (understandably) be offended as part of the critical response. The ultimate problem is that some people on both sides of the argument will be hardheaded and unwilling to concede that the piece might affect someone else in a different way.

We've all spent time on the Internet. We know that some people just don't want to change their minds.

OrigamiNinja

I believe what this piece says about the the tragedy of 9/11 that it wasn't the family of survivors fault, nor the U.S.'s (that may be debatable depending on whatever conspiracy theory you believe in or what knowledge the government had). There's a foreign group with an objective to destroy the building, whether they launched the attack in a foreign land directly (planting bombs) or unexpectedly (suicide bombing) that buiklding was going to fall that day. Our weapons/methods were/are ineffective against an enemy that can come from any direction have a significant number of troops.

Well, the situation may have been possible to change back then, but this is more of a hindsight/destined/too late don't blame yourself view.

gametaku

@Michael McWhertor: I can see how the player can receive that message... *looks up jingoistic... Yea, I can see that.

Though, having the Twin Towers destroyed as part of the game to deliver the message, seems a little brash.

Aex

This isn't art. It's politics. They're not the same thing.

dowingba

POLITICAL COMMENT :READ AT OWN RISK
I am from NYC and I am surprised that there is not more art like this.Art is not always pleasant,there are paintings of the being White House burned down by the British.This must have been a tragedy in its day yet the paintings exist.
.I watched the WTC attack in person and it is a sad day,so many lives destroyed because of twisted ideology and politics.The legacy of that attack has been worst than that day.
Yet it has become something more than it is. Politicians have used this as an excuse to kill thousands of people. I think the artist is trying to convey that the WTC is lost and we should deal with those emotions and separate that from the warmongering and posturing that have captured and profited from the attack.

jackal888

@asTer0id: I don't think anyone's DENYING that September 11th ever happened.

"If I can't see them... they can't see me..."

vid3oman64

I honestly don't know what to say right now. As someone who lost friends that day, the very idea that someone would take that tragedy and trivialize it by making it into a pointless, insensitive game, makes me sick to my stomach. Call it "art" if you want, but all it is a blatant plea for attention from someone who can't make actual art and chooses to drum up controversy to get his name out there.

cojay47

@eakolb: Awareness of how the artist views the war. It doesn't have to be the absolute truth. Do we really know the absolute truth? most likely not. It doesn't stop us from stating our own opinion. And that is all the artist did, state an opinion, through artistic means.

NexusSIX

This game is not art.

It's funny how all the designers who spend more time thinking about the message rather than the game usually churn out a piece of rubbish. Where a designer like Fumito Ueda who worries about creating a compelling experience end up making a piece of art.

mrWalrus

i think this piece is getting too much flak for the wrong reasons. He obviously has something to say and I feel like he succeeds in making his statements. Its provocative and it causes an emotional response and he used the images that were most likely to do so. What happened with the WTC's was shocking and horrible and unpardonable, but lets not turn it into taboo. Pretending to never acknowledge it happened is pointless. I don't think the artist is trying to belittle what happened in any way. Is it tasteless? Thats a personal opinion. To me, his art is trying to show the connection between rising terrorism, media, the war policy and reminds us how we cannot change the tragedy of sept11 even if we wanted to and of the helplessness people felt in the wake of those attacks.

asTer0id

Sounds awesome.

exolstice

@Dexyn: Regardless of what this artist may have wanted to evoke emotionally from those who could look at this game objectively, he knew that he would receive press and attention because 'omg twin towers'. That is what makes this tacky and wrong.

vid3oman64

@Kiyosuki:
The artist in no way implies that doing nothing is the right answer. The entire format of the piece encourages one to take action, and the results of that action actually slightly improve the situation (the towers don't come down as fast). Even though the results are always the same in the end, playing the game, and playing it well, will still lead to sense of accomplishment, as evidenced by the high scores. It's an interesting look into human nature and our unwillingness to accept inevitabilities. Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? That's left to the observer. The artist doesn't take the clear stance you assume he does.

elementary

@Lombax: I agree with you there.

enough said on this subject.

Awoken

@3inst3in: 22.3 years i mean. ah how we forget our southpark quotes when we arent high and in college anymore.

3inst3in

@litrock: 28.5 years.

3inst3in

oh yea i forgot to ask. was there a sound loop or someone shouting TERRORISTS ARE GAY and SPACE INVADERS, GAY DARTH VADERS?

noliferuin (PSN+XBL)

I know its cliché, but everyone is a critic.

p0wd3rd

@uppitycracker: Maybe it's more about the fact that no matter what the war strategy over there is. It won't change the fact that the two towers are no more?

I find this piece of art uninteresting as a view point from the outside. But I do think it can be considered art. Because it doesn't fit your idea of things, doesn't discredit it as art.

Kyolux

@NexusSIX:
Awareness? Awareness of what? The fact that terrorists flew two planes into the twin towers of the complex, causing the total destruction of the property and the death of thousands nearly seven years ago?

Yeah. We were unaware of that. Thanks.

eakolb

It presents a hopeless, inevitable view of the world. Flail all you want, do everything you can, the towers will still fall.
That's my interpretation anyway.
It'd be funny, and epic, if someone actually managed to win. :D

Hazzy

So, when's this hitting XBLA?

NightsirK

@Aex: Briefly, Invaders! captures a sense of helplessness that many people felt in the wake of those attacks and touches on jingoistic violence as entertainment in a surprisingly efficient way.

@Lombax: Diff'rent strokes move the world.

Michael McWhertor

@Lazlo:
That's all well and good for you, but I feel that this piece makes a profound yet simple statement, which is appropriately enhanced by an innovative and interactive medium. It deserves all the attention (positive and negative) that it is getting.

elementary

Yet another tacky lapse of decorum in the name of art.

Honestly, artists producing exhibits like this are just like musicians who become popular due to a cover of a popular song. Even if they're actually a fantastic artist, it just shows that they were unable or unwilling to achieve success on the merits of their work. They rely on a sky hook, be it shock value in this case or someone else's talent and publicity in the musicians' case, to bring themselves into the limelight.

eakolb

So the aliens are the government, right?

Tyber_Zann

reminds me of that simpsons where someone is betrayed and a rat appears, prompting ralph to say 'the rat symbolises obviousness'.

noliferuin (PSN+XBL)

"interspersed with stills of George W. Bush in his flight suit and John Wayne pointing a gun at the screen."

Ugh, sounds obvious, cliché and forced, the exact opposite of what this piece of art is supposed to be.
I hope it looks better than it sounds McW.

Mr. Tambourine Man

i'm actually pretty disappointed that ANYONE could view this as valid art. now trust me when i say, that my cynical and tasteless sense of humor keeps me pretty devoid of any overly sensitive reactions to this. its not offensive to me in any way. its just stupid. how does this represent the current war strategy? you could have put a million different things that end up getting destroyed, and while they might have been way more relevant, it wouldtn bring the shock attention that the WTC does. video games as an art form, fine. but this is just ridiculous.

uppitycracker

I dunno though, I can't help but feel like the artist's point of view is a little narrow itself. It's easy to say that the right answer is to just do nothing, but the actual right answers in reality are rarely that easy.

But well, at least it's aim is being fulfilled.

Kiyosuki

@litrock: Another thing is, is it really to soon? You have a damn good point look at Uwe's POSTAL. And theirs an answer for everything.

Dexyn

@vid3oman64: The whole purpose of the piece was to get attention so that the artist can create awareness. Doesn't matter what the medium. I believe it has succeeded.

NexusSIX

"Would you like to play thermo nuclear war?"

- No, not really.

"Then can I interest you in some World Trade Center Space Invaders?"

- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooo!!!!!!!

DugDawg

Is it just me, or does it seem like continually posting new stuff about this abysmal load just gives the developers what they wanted: attention? How bout we just forget about it and move on.

Lazlo

@Aex I think the most obvious message in the exhibit is that the US is fighting a battle they are destined to loose. I don't think there is anything complex about it, its pretty blatent in it delivery and message.

Exhibits such as this are part of a 'healing process' to help the US get off its high horse (unlikely to happen though). I wouldn't call it genius, but it looks fun hehe.

p0wd3rd

I honestly wish more Americans realized the truth of this artistic statement. We're all noise and no result these days. Such is life.

That said, I like the piece. I think it's well considered.

And anyone who cries too soon ... it's been seven years. When exactly is it not too soon? Making it an untouchable subject just shows how little we learned from it.

litrock

@vid3oman64: Hey, shut the f--- up.

No, but really, it's comments like this that make it a funny world. It's strange really, did you even read -anything- in that article above?

Dexyn

@Aex:
It seems to deal with the inevitability of tragedy and the futility it causes.

elementary

This is tacky shit.

Schoolimangooli's backpack turns into a ham sandwich!

@elementary: "The only winning move is not to play." 100% correct.

Zombie999

@vid3oman64: I'm with you on that.

Schoolimangooli's backpack turns into a ham sandwich!

P_P

artists are weird

tooji

Almost anything could be seen as a cheap way to get some attention and emotion from a certain point of view. I guess modern art like this is even more suseptable to that criticism though I admit...but still the artist's point is still pretty valid. A little overdone a topic perhaps and not particularly respectful or classy yeah but nonetheless it's there.

Kiyosuki

the classy thing would have been to leave this shit alone after the first post. way to beat a whole heap of nothing into the ground.

Lombax

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

elementary

@McWhertor: You said the game delivers complex messages. Can you explain what you felt those messages were?

Aex

Its rarely possible to make a point like this without hurting someones feelings. I think people instantly jump to the emotions they felt at the time, rather than actually trying to take in the context of today. The invaders are always there, and always will be, its the reactions you make based on the present that makes a true art form brilliant. Unfortunately there are a few people that can't see beyond what happened almost seven years ago and thats the real shame.

dazzlerboi

Damn you, aliens! Damn you all to heeeell!

..Well, at least he didn't put floaty muslim heads in there.

NightsirK

Seems like a cheap way for some attention and emotion.

vid3oman64

Fascinating.

WittyUserName

Yeah.

Dexyn

Wow, real life like. Art is resistance.

Zombie999

I found personally that this illicited some interesting thoughts on my part - to share them here would seem a little pointless sadly, however, I'm glad that games are being used as a material in art.

Something that perhaps we can all get behind, even if in this instance we can't agree on how successful its been.

elronathon

@Kyolux: I was thinking the same thing (being strategic). Look where we (USA) are at now.

I'm glad this article is creating a lot of intriguing dialogue. I've been trying to mesh games and art and sometimes politics together for the longest time with little success. This guy took an interesting step.

ShizzleBeef

[www.videogaming247.com]

He should have probably got the ok from Taito first before using Space invaders.It's lawsuit time!

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

@mrWalrus: pssh, wish I'd have refreshed the page before I sent that last post of mine. You said it way better than I did.

breakblossom

McWhertor, your definition of art makes me think you yourself are unsure about it. Just because something elicits an immediate emotional response does not make it art. I could dump horse manure on every doorstep on my block and call it performance art. Why not? It would surely bring out an immediate emotional response (anger, most likely), and under your definition, that constitutes art. You need to understand that art is more than just an emotional response; it's something that transcends emotions. Everything in this world elicits an emotional response, but if everything is art, then nothing is art.

brightneonlights

It seems to me that more and more people are mistaking art for controversial propaganda designed to evoke an overwhelmingly negative emotional response in order to get attention. This isn't really that bad if you ask me but it does remind me of some of the far more extreme out there.

breakblossom

@OpiumSandwich: I thought the one he made back then was a different one?

Kyolux

@OUberLord: That may be so. Like I said, I don't take it for more then another conspiracy theory.

Kyolux

@vid3oman64: Not sure why people are attacking you. This guy is nothing but an attention whore.
Anything he says about this being a "commentary on the current war strategy" or anything of the sort is total bullshit because he originally made this game in SEPTEMBER 2001.

OpiumSandwich

@Michael McWhertor: McWhertor, the artist created this exhibit back in September 2001, according to his website.

[www.abstractmachine.net]

How can it be a commentary on a war that wasn't taking place at the time? It seems he's repurposed his exhibit and is attempting to give it an alternate meaning than the one he started with.

Spoony Bard

@JohnnyLA: 1) I didn't took History of 20th century, USA edition. I took the Canada edition. If you really take words for words what you learned in history classes.. tough news, most of it isn't fact but perspective.

2) I didn't say it wasn't strategic. I said 9/11 could very well be strategic. And both had civilians death. One much more then the other.

Kyolux

@Kyolux: I wanna say that I remember watching something that it was the Emperor at the time who was against surrendering after the first bomb, and that only after a military coup did the head of power shift. What I don't remember is if that happened before or after the second bomb.

OUberLord

@OrigamiNinja:

Now you're confusing evoking an emotional response with art.

While the point you make is completely valid it falls apart when you consider all the things in this world that can create a strong and immediate emotional response.

An idiot driver who runs a stop sign almost hits me triggering a display of hand gestures and lips which can be clearly read through two paynes of glass is not art. Seeing a pretty girl that triggers lust, is not art. Smelling, then cleaning up a baby's diaper is not art.

All of these activities created an immediate emotional response that was drastically different then the one I had going into the event. This however did not make any of these experiences art. However the babies diaper was probably more poignant than anything this douche bag will ever put together.

Shocking people is not art. It's just annoying and if that's your only goal then you're wasting resources. Get off the planet.

mrWalrus

Kyolux: Dammit it, man, I haven't played that game yet, heh. ;)

I would say that a specific weapon doesn't invoke a response. Tt's the actual severity and context of the incident that took place or we would all be appalled by the use of Winchester rifles at any time because they were used in the slaughtering of innocent Native Americans during the early American Expansion.

JohnnyLA

@Kyolux:

No, it isn't. One is a video game where the bomb only serves the purpose of (as the mission title aptly puts it) shock and awe. The other was a tragedy that killed nearly 220,000 people, not to mention those who died as a result of the radiation. There were no consequences to the nuke outside of the game, it was just an event to set up the rest of the story, the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki still affect people today.

cojay47

@Kavatar: Terrorism is a mindset, it doesn't have borders or a capital. You can't wage a military conflict against something so ethereal. The only way to defeat terrorism is to first understand it and understand not only their goal but why they are trying to achieve it. Otherwise you are just throwing your military around and putting out symptoms of the problem and not the cause.

OUberLord

@OUberLord: True enough. I never can shake off though what I read in a black history book. (Those kinds that tries to show hidden parts of history, sometimes not really much factual) that Japan had capitulated before the bombing, or at least after the first one. But because of radio intermission or something (read that over 6 years ago so not too sure) or the persons in charge ignoring it, they still bombed Nagasaki. The author had sources claiming it was because of the financial investment that had gone for making those bombs and some people objected to not "test" them.

Now do I believe that? Not sure. I'm not much into conspiracy theories. And what I would believe wouldn't changed what happened back then.

Kyolux

I don't care for it under the guise of art. But I'll just use what a wise man once said:

"Now, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum,
What might be right for you, may not be right for some.
A man is born, he's a man of means.
Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.

Because it takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world.
Yes it does!
It takes, Diff'rent Strokes to move the world!"

Shok

@IShallRiseAgain: He used the subject because it was a major turning point in world history that directly relates to the message he is trying to convey, it's not like he arbitrarily chose it to garner attention.

OUberLord

@Kyolux:
It was a strategic decision because at the time the US and the Allies would have had to invade with conventional forces.The loss of life on both sides would have made the numbers staggering.It also put a quick end to a protracted conflict.

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

@KaneRobot:

Whatever people may think of the piece itself (and I tend more toward the 'fairly tacky' side, though I don't question it as art), it's a very visible attempt to create art through the medium of a videogame. This is a website devoted to that medium. If anything, all of the controversy that's being generated here in the comments proves that it's quite definitely newsworthy.

deejsylvis

"@Aex: Example of tragedies for strategic gain...
The Nuclear Bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

so 220,000, mostly civilians dies from the bombings in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and it's justified as a strategic reason?"

Have you read your history? If the Allies would of invaded Japan there would be WAY more heavier casualties on BOTH sides, civilians and other.

They were willing to entrench themselves and fight to the death for every mile the Allies gained as in some battles of the Pacific Theater. Imagine Kamikaze but instead of planes as weapons, it would be houses, cars, themselves that were used.

Truman had one of the hardest decisions to make out of any President before or since and even though it was a tragedy what had to be done it would of been way worse.

JohnnyLA

I cannot believe that some people actually believe this "art" is making a valid statement. Fighting terrorism is a futile battle? It may be difficult to actually win but you can't say it's impossible, and I think it is necessary to try. Be smart, pick your battles wisely but you can't just stand by and do nothing.

Kavatar

@Kyolux: Both of which were strategic, really. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed or affected hundreds of thousands of lives, most of them civilians, but most historians agree that it prevented a land war that would have hosted even more bloodshed.

Bin Laden's motivations to striking the towers may never be fully known as to exactly why, but given that it was a symbol of the economic might of one of the worlds largest superpowers probably plays into it.

OUberLord

Ugh, this is just some hack who can't get attention for his art unless he uses a controversial subject. Also, since it is such a controversial subject, it lets people add more depth to the piece than there actually is. People tend to seek meaning and patterns to something when there is none.

IShallRiseAgain

@JohnnyLA: CoD 4 spoilers alert:

CoD4 has a nuke blow up basically in your face. Doesn't this come up as an insult to those that had family die back in august 1945?

Kyolux

@turd_fergusonx:

Except that both United 93 and World Trade Center made sure to get the consent and blessing the families of the victims before moving forward with production. In addition, both of those movies were about the heroism of men and women who acted valiantly in the face of a horrific tragedy. As opposed to this supposed piece of "art" which pays no tribute to the people who died that day.

cojay47

@Kyolux: Sorry if the structure of my sentences is a bit off. I re-edited a bit and didn't re-read.

Kyolux

"And anyone who cries too soon ... it's been seven years. When exactly is it not too soon? Making it an untouchable subject just shows how little we learned from it."

I don't see anyone making a Nazi concentration camp or raping of Nanjing game to get cheap attention. Do you?

There are always incidents in a countries or peoples life that you just don't want to tread on. I think this is still too soon.

JohnnyLA

@Aex: Example of tragedies for strategic gain...
The Nuclear Bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

so 220,000, mostly civilians dies from the bombings in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and it's justified as a strategic reason?

But 9/11 doesn't had strategic reasons? From another Point of view at the least, I believe it succeeded in its attempt at showing no one is invincible and the after-effects on economy this had an impact on. (I'm not saying this was justified)

Kyolux

...is Kotaku a fan of this so-called "artist" or something? This dude barely deserved one story, let alone the three or four he has been given.

KaneRobot

Neato.

flashadams

@KaneRobot: Ignoring a story doesn't make it less important.
@Spoony Bard: Our story about the artist mention that and also mentions he "redesigned it" for this exhibit.

Brian Crecente

@elronathon: sorry to further my point - I think discussion is constructive and helps us deal with tragedy or anything else for that matter

elronathon

@Aex: It's cool. I tend to get heated up too much in getting into debates. And my nature always push me to take the "against" side.

I've often defended the undefendable side. ;) Maybe I should have aimed to be a lawyer.

I honestly didn't really cared about that "game/art/whatever". I just don't like the part of human nature were we blow out of proportion (in general context) the things that affect us negatively like it's the worst thing ever. 9/11 was bad no matter how you look at it. But I believe there's always going to be someone else that's having it tougher then you. Does that make me a Mysantrope yet positive person?

Kyolux

@mrryu: I'm sorry I really disagree. by your reasoning we shouldn't make any work of art that engages with a subject that has caused personal grief to someone else. Art is discourse, to say we can't make art dealing with particular issues is to say we shouldn't discuss particular things.

elronathon

@brightneonlights: My definition of art is pretty broad.

Michael McWhertor

@brightneonlights: Okay, but I'm confused - why is there any doubt that this particular work (as opposed to, say, horseshit on doorsteps) is a piece of artwork? Bad or good, isn't it a fairly standard mixed-media piece (video loop + related computer game)? If I read the description right...

Regardless, if anybody is 'sure' about the definition of art that probably means they aren't worth listening to - especially about art.

On this piece, respect to the artist; seems like a pretty interesting way of stirring up some thoughtful trouble.

quen

Maybe it would make more sense to have the Invaders destroying Iraq while the player hopelessly tries to defend it.

blacksuits

It's not the first step in gaming self expression though. Machinima has been around. Art =/= controversy. Art may instill controversy at times, but it's a lackluster showing when one uses controversy and calls it art. There was nothing here that hasn't been done before visually/techincally...even contextually. The only difference here is its something made for the shear fact of being offensive/controversial. Do you call the (insert celebrity that seeks out attention) sex tape art?

SIlentStrife

@Kyolux: Damn, I had a real well written response for you, but I lost it :( Reading some of the posts afterwards it seems that my general point got across.

What I was trying to get across is the feelings the victims and those that lived through the event felt and how they can deal with it. It is very hard to deal with a tragedy when you have no reason for why the tragedy was caused. The victims of A-Bombs had the war to blame their tragedy on. The victims of the Holocaust and 9/11 have no real reasoning other than "People wanted to kill them". I'm not saying that either event is any less tragic, I'm just saying that society accepts the events differently and people should try and be mindful of that.

I think when someone has a way of reasoning a tragedy out, it makes it much simpler to deal with, and that is the difference between a tragedy caused for strategic gain and one caused for no reason.

If anyone wants to discuss to the strategic gain of the Holocaust or 9/11, I am more than willing to. Leave me a private message with your aim/gtalk/email and I'll contact you.

Aex

@danny841: My point on #2 was just an answer to someone saying it wasn't strategic. I didn't say it was justified.

As for the history part, I was talking about my personnal feelings about this, because I've had a few historian teachers that were very much so sure about conspirations. I've taken Canada history classes on both sides of the fence (French and English), and a lot of "facts" don't add up.

Kyolux

@Kyolux: typos.. "the conscious"
"My International comm.."

I should be working instead of posting in here.

Kyolux

To create such a "work" is an affront to human dignity; the artist can hide beneath the cloak of artistic expression all he wants, but the truth is that this piece is using a national, and to many people, personal, tragedy, to garner undeserved attention. There are more tasteful ways to treat the topic-I personally would rather see a game that lionizes the passengers of Flight 93 or extols the virtues of the NYC Firefighters, rather than a half-baked sensationalist take on the cowardly attack on the World Trade Center. But then again, if artists are willing to starve animals to make a point, I think it can be safely stated that sometimes rational thought and common decency are absent at best.

mrryu

@Kyolux:
1) If you want to start talking like that then we could also say that NO documentation of history is correct. I mean everything is biased from the outset and nothing is without someone the opinion of someone else. But facts are facts and looking at them and then forming your own opinion is something else.

2) And yes 9/11 was strategic and the people behind it accomplished their goals. However those goals differ vastly from dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The attack on the WTC was an act committed by religious zealots who took their religious text as literal and decided to wage war against the ideals that a nation almost entirely their opposite held. Granted the US is always getting involved in stuff it has no business being in. Anyway they were going for maximum inflicted damage, not for the least inflicted damage, the point of dropping bombs on Japan.

danny841

People are taking this way too seriously.

GrandfatherParadox

Seems like a cheap work of shock art to me. I don't see how this is going to make people take video games as an art form seriously at all.

It doesn't personally offend me, but it still just seems like a bad idea.

TheGuilty1

@brightneonlights: Well, wikitionary has 10 definitions of art. Some of them exclude this "thing". Some of them include it.

"A recreation of reality according to the artist's metaphysical value-judgements" I would think is something like this fits in, although I completely agree the reasoning of the author is questionable.

"he conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colours, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium."

I doubt this is beautiful.

My Internation communication professor always said, it's no use argumenting on something when the basic terms used aren't pre-emptively defined and agreed upon.

Kyolux

now, I don't have any relatives or friends who died in the destruction of the world trade center. neither am I american, so it's easy for me to see without any emotional attachment (well, not entirely without of course. I don't think that the fall of the twin towers left anybody emotionally untouched).

I also don't want to comment on the artistic merit of the whole thing, I'll keep my own counsel on this.

BUT:

I don't think that this is any more insulting to the victims of 9/11, than that awfull hollywood cash-in movie. while that atrocity of a movie made cash out of the victims' fates, this at least is only trying to make an artistic statement.

little_dragon

@OUberLord @ShizzleBeef: Very well said, thank you. I've taken many Art History and Humanities courses toward art as well. For many people here to say he's made this purely to get a reaction just goes to show how extremely laymen many are to art and how one must view it. Of course it was to inspire a reaction as much of art is intentionally reactionary to make a point or tell a story. Otherwise what point would there be to express oneself if it did not have some purpose. It would just be superficial decorative fluff. Observantly that is probably why most gamers seem so quick to embellish graphics over substance within gaming, because they are not so quick to look within its context - thus revealing in what seems a universally shallow human flaw.

Contextually speaking this artist was making a metaphor of space invaders to terrorists. A parallel of the original titles fiction to a real poignant time in history. If at all the point of this take on the game is to stop the "invaders" from destroying the WTC. To suddenly get on a moral high horse baffles me as people seem to pick and choose their double standards. So some feel this is tasteless, but reenacting all those war games that depict Normandy and Iraq war for entertainment purposes isn't "too soon" or tasteless as well? COD4 for example which I've played and do enjoy, see friends who have served in Iraq find it too surreal to watch or remotely find entertaining - gets a moral pass, but this guy gets crucified? It is a matter of perspective I guess.

An art professor stated once, "To not understand art reveals people with narrow minds."

TC

@elementary: I must say, regardless of my personal feelings about the "Invaders!" game, this was a very clever comment.

ArgentAngel

@ninjafetus: You seem to think that art has to push boundaries and offend people and be 'edgy' in order to be good art. That kind of thinking is permeating our culture entirely; everybody has to out-shock everyone else. The Mona Lisa did a damn fine job of being good are and it's just a woman.

sarcasmOD

This is an effective piece of art. Is it about a terrible event? Yes. Does that make it terrible art? You decide. The fact that we're talking about it, and debating the merits of the alleged message make it effective.

Call it art, call it crap, I doubt the artist cares. He probably feels that motivating discussion is good enough for him. On the other hand, he'd probably be disappointed that the majority of the discussion is on the quality of the art rather than the merits and validity (or lack thereof) of the message.

ninjafetus

@Brian Crecente: Ah, OK. :)

Spoony Bard

@blacksuits: "Maybe it would make more sense to have the Invaders destroying Iraq while the player hopelessly tries to defend it. "

So that then America are the invaders?

AndroidKing

@JohnnyLA: Bias on what stand? I'm fencing on this one. >.>

I'm just saying to be careful of bias (although I didn't used those words) especially because I've heard so many different versions. Oh and sorry about the way I've put it up. Guess I was putting emotions in my words a bit too much.

Kyolux

*you* of course meaning the viewer, not actually you TC :P

OUberLord

@TC: I find one of the strengths of it to be the contrast in and of itself, taking a game that for many is a sample of fond memories and contrasting it against a horrible tragedy. It's that dissonance that really helps the point across, and between that and the invaders themselves representing terrorism among other the other symbolism I think it makes a powerful message regardless on if you agree with it or not.

OUberLord

@ninjafetus: Agreed.

But if this is the single artifact that pushes games into the fore as a non-trivial expressive medium, well, I think that'd be pretty sad.

We can do better. We have done better. That many haven't recognized it doesn't bother me in the least. I'm in no particular rush to have games popularly accepted as a valid art form; it is what it is, regardless of what the masses feel.

This is not the first piece of art to emerge from the medium of videogames. And it is certainly not the last. I see no reason to cling to Stanley's work as the sole or most compelling proof that videogames can be art. Videogames can be art, and the distinctly inflammatory work of one individual does nothing to help or hinder this fact.

SmilingPolitely

1) I didn't took History of 20th century, USA edition. I took the Canada edition. If you really take words for words what you learned in history classes.. tough news, most of it isn't fact but perspective.

I took "My Grandfather was in the Navy and was there at the time" edition. And I really don't think the "Canada Perspective" is that much different from the ones I've been hearing.

If you want to step up with the your backhanded national rhetoric, fine, but I'm not going to be baited by your obvious bias.

I'm not a blind follower of given US history and I DO have a brain enough to know there are different perspectives to the whole issue but facts are facts.

If US invaded Japan, way worse casualties on both sides. Simple as that.

I do concede on your second point, though.

JohnnyLA

Previous to this article's detailed explanation of the exhibit, this piece seemed shallow and emotionally exploitative.

Mcwhertor's clarity sheds much needed light on a meaning deeper than "aliens attack WTC", i really like this art alot...its fucking awesome! ^_^

+9000 internets to anyone that has a video of "Invaders!", additional bonus for people in the background getting a sandy vagoo about it.

To all the commentors trying to say "i dont like it, i am offended, therefore it is not art", really need to visit a museum and read up on free speach as well as fair use.
Personally, im glad you're offended.
Maybe it will lead to more critical thinking on real world events, mm?

@danny841: carried out by people to take their religious text literally, eh? [i237.photobucket.com]

JoshReflek

@Nilknoc: Deeply believing in your own opinion doesn't transform it into a fact.

Evidences creates facts.

You are still free to your own opinion.

Kyolux

@Nilknoc: Hehe, Subjective opinions are not fact :p

Aex

@OUberLord: I'm not sure what comments you feel can be debated because everything I said is fact.

Nilknoc

@mrWalrus: Thank you. You just articulated the exact point that I wanted to make, in a far more tactful manner than I could ever have come up with on two hours of sleep.

As for the "art" itself, well... Lemme just quote one of the wise men of my generation. "No sir, I don't like it."

JChaos

@TC: I disagree with your view on this piece. If the artist wanted to speak in metaphors then using images of the Twin Towers, with victims jumping out, to deliver that message was a poor decision to begin with. To me it seems he used the event Twin Towers as nothing more than a tool to gain attention for his piece, which I feel devalues the lives of innocents lost that day.

I've also tried explaining the differences between a game using a war as a setting and this game, and why society accepts one more easily than the other, with the most fundamental difference having to do with "WHO" is dying in each, but it is obvious to me now that it is futile.

Also, that art professor sounds like a pompous ass :)

Aex

@Nilknoc: Your comment opens up a whole slew of debates in which this is not the time nor the place for, so instead I'll just say that I respectfully disagree with most of what you posted.

Regardless, his art is justifiable and successful in its goal. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to be liked by anyone.

OUberLord

@Kyolux: No prob and also, my bad. I shouldn't get so defensive on things like this. :)

JohnnyLA

@p0wd3rd: I don't know where your from but I for love my country. If the U.S. is up on a high horse, it is because we are the greatest nation in the world.

Justifying the game by saying the message is that the U.S. is fighting a fight they are destined to lose is ridiculous. If you are a U.S. citizen and you have this attitude I truely feel sorry for you because you have let people convince you that this isn't a great country, poor for our country is only being able to afford one next gen console. Or if your from some where else, then I'd like to know where your from so that I can point out to you possibly several occasions when the U.S. has helped your country out.

P.S. Kotaku this story is lame, I think one post was enough. For know I will get my news from sites that don't post and re-post stories that should be dead on arrival. I might be back when we get on the same page.

Nilknoc

is this coming to the iPhone?

Nasdaf

@Mesren_Makai: OUberLord was right when he said that this, "isn't the time or the place," if he was referring to a deep political discussion. But if you would like me to back my statement of, "the U.S. is the greatest country in the would," I would be more then happy to list the facts behind it.

Nilknoc

@MellowNinja: What do you think about the art exhibit from a while back which had a dead baby inside of a mother and was a cross section of the two then? It could be considered just as grotesque.

The funny thing about art is that it means different things to different people. Nearly anything can be considered art, but it doesn't have to be liked. Not all art is colorful paints on canvas, and some of the most effective art can be that which is the least liked.

OUberLord

@ShizzleBeef: oops: And I don't think Kotaku will miss him if he chooses too.*

ShizzleBeef

@JChaos: Well, much like other people commenting on this article and the other, what I said can be interpreted differently, much like the Invaders! piece. :)

I merely stated that he can indeed choose to go to another site for news, if he decides too. And I don't Kotaku will miss him if he chooses too. The important thing is he has a choice.

Hot damn!

ShizzleBeef

@JChaos: Er... not trying to say anything about the arguement or anything. Just a random point of amusement.

Man, I need to get some more sleep... I shouldn't be allowed at a keyboard when I'm like this.

JChaos

@ShizzleBeef: As long as South Park jokes and stereotypes are on the table, I just have to say... When I read this comment, all I heard was "If you don't like it, then you can git out!" in the South Park Redneck Drawl.

JChaos

@Nilknoc: Saying our country is the greatest is more of an opinion than fact...

And Kotaku only reposts things that are interesting such as...THIS, or when there are updates.

Kotaku: 1
Person who claims opinion as fact: Not 1.

Mesren_Makai

@otis123: Just like 75% of what comes out of Hollywood and the North American Music industry! (not said much seriously)

Kyolux

this really seems to be in bad taste, and a attention grab.

otis123

@Nilknoc: I don't think Kotaku will miss you if you decide to get your news from other sites. I say go for it.

Everything you said is fact? I think Kotaku's story about Invaders! is excellent. I have just proved what you said isn't fact.

ShizzleBeef

The guy got what he wanted. He received more attention than it's worth.

MellowNinja

Hurray going to art schoooolllll~

But really, I think it's an okay piece. People just immediately put up the flame shield because even mentioning "WTC" or "9/11" is practically taboo, if not somehow tying with with war and terrorism.

*sigh*

Mesren_Makai

@TC:

are you serious? Are you really going to ride in here on that horse? I guess this is how the lore of the headless horseman started...

The merits of the 'message' or whatever one could presumably discern from this work was pretty cut and dry. I don't think anyone here is lost as to what the 'message' was.

This deeper meaning that you're claiming tho is a kin to looking at your rice krispies in the morning and thinking it contains the answer to solving world peace.. or better yet making a game like Too Human and telling people they don't get it.

The end result of what was made was not done so in a matter that was redeeming to those who viewed it and thus the claims of this being 'a piece of trash' were made. Which it is. Debating this point is kind of silly.

And since you're an artist ask yourself for a second if there was a more reasonable way this point could have been made. I bet you can think of about five before clicking to the next page. Cause you know, I too am an artist.. and I could think of a whole host of ways one could make the point this guy was trying to make.

So sure this work says something but that's also where we get the phrase a picture is worth a thousands words. The problem comes tho when none of those words are worth saying.

mrWalrus

" Space Invaders attacks New York's Twin Towers art installation, is very effective in eliciting an immediate emotional response. That makes it a successful work of art, even if reaction to such confrontational themes are rarely positive."

You write that as an intelligent opinion, but it's flawed. You can easily say the same thing about a homicide. There are murderers like Bundy who would say the same thing about their crimes. It's art because it elicits an immediate emotional response.

That's a very vague description. I think it fails to be art when you are trying to gain attention by eliciting a morbid emotional response.

Put a decapitated head on a stick and put that in the Louvre. Is that art? It elicits an emotion.

This is just shocking. I wouldn't attribute the word art to this.

MellowNinja

What a good idea. We need more of this.

proust

@OUberLord: Ah thats lame. I wish I would have read that before I gave you dap.

Nilknoc

@Mesren_Makai: Haha then I will make one last poke at you and myself by correcting you. I'm not right by saying this isn't the time or place because OUberLord was the first one to say it.

Nilknoc

@Mesren_Makai: To argue Nilknoc's points is to willingly participate in a Banhammer-style scorched earth policy in which nothing survives :)

OUberLord

@Nilknoc: Wtf I thought you said you were leaving. Don't think just cause you threw a fit means they won't interview this guy themselves or at least have a link to one before all is done and over. I'm sure there would be plenty of people to list facts behind the US not being the greatest country. No matter what you present being the greatest country is not a fact. It's not like largest income you can't prove it.

AndroidKing

@Nilknoc: No no, you're right this isn't the time or place to discuss the discussion.

To each to their own, but facts aren't always facts.

But to conclude I'd just say that evem saying "our country is best" is just as bad as my fellow neighbor going "my god is best". (though we don't quite have inquisitions and crusades to the 'country' one) But we're entitled to our own opinions, so I will respect.

But that's all I'll say, as I don't want to start a giant debate of 50 vs 50, ending in banning. The Ban Hammer scares me.

Mesren_Makai

"...is very effective in eliciting an immediate emotional response. That makes it a successful work of art..."

No it doesn't. That's like saying if you showed a person a picture of a mutilated body it would be art, because it elicited an emotional response from the person.

Its nothing more than an attempt by a person who doesn't get enough attention to start a controversy or outrage. Starting controversy just for the sake of it is something that gets done WAY too often by "artists" or "activists" and all it does is reinforce my hate for those people.

Rationalizing something offensive or plain stupid as "social commentary" is getting fucking old too.

Kenny

@OUberLord: @Nilknoc: Touché to both : )

Mesren_Makai

Wow - very saddening to read these comments. It's a shame how divorced the American populace has become from art, artistic intent, and how easily they react with selfish emotional defenses instead of an open mind.

Using the unrelenting advance of Space Invaders to communicate the message that you can never, ever eradicate all your enemies is excellently done here. Using the WTC is necessary to contrast the kill-everything-that-opposes-you conceit of many games with reality and the futility of that as a means of defense.

Also, the inevitable collapse of the towers is essential. You can't save them - it's in the past, and they've already fallen. So what are you going to do now?

LongDarkBlues

@justhesh: The band-aid on the hamburger could represent that we dress up the burger by cooking it, dressing it with greens and condiments, as to try to fix the fact that we're eating an animal that has been, most likely, mercilessly slaughtered.

TheAbsoluteJay

@justhesh: I'm fairly sure that art is a form of expression that can mean many things to many people.

I see real representations in the piece. I gather something more than hate. I see something more than shock schlock, as you put it. I also don't think you have any particular right to put boundaries on what can and can't be.

That's the problem with some people, they think that they can govern expression because they don't agree, they are offended or deem something not as good as something else, and that's the point of art sometimes, to transcend the boundaries of exception.

And if someone found something in a Klan rally to be artistic, so be it, you have no right to tell them otherwise, so stop being so righteous.

TheAbsoluteJay

@justhesh: Finding a bandaid isn't art because that's finding a glaring flaw in a product you purchased, you can't call that art by any logic flawed or no. A feces-and-urine coated truck stop bathroom *could* be considered art, if the artist was trying to convey the decay of some facets of our supposedly modern society. One could take that further from there if they would like.

*shrug* It's art to me. I get the point it was trying to convey, and though the method of delivery is borderline bad taste it's thought provoking in its message.

OUberLord

"That makes it a successful work of art"

No, it does not. By your flawed logic, finding a bandaid on your hamburger is successful art. Feces and urine stained truck stop bathrooms become successful art. Bigotry becomes successful art.

Simply causing reactions does not make something "a successful work of art".

This isn't successful because it makes you cringe at the creation itself. If that was how art worked, galleries would be filled not with the David or Water Lilies, but with anything and everything that people simply dislike.

No, thinking something about a thing does not make it successful art, especially when the something that people think about the object is that they hate it.

As for this piece itself, it's far from articulated. It's contrived shock schlock, all the way down to the red/white/blue text and clips of violent films interspersed with pictures of Bush. It's successful art like a KKK rally is successful art.

There's no real merit here, there's no real message. The only thing this says--and it screams it--is, "Hey! Look at me, look at these crazy images". And that's not wrong. But what is wrong is trying to pretend that that is not the case and that there is more to be gleaned from this installment than just face value.

It is NOT an important step towards video games being taken seriously. It no more makes that point that it does the supposed one. This can only serve to be detrimental to the image of video games and their players, and it already has.

justhesh

@TheAbsoluteJay: @EmpressInYellow: This isn't in defense of MerlynNy's opinion, but more so in the way you are both reading it. When reading someone else's written word, the reader must assume that what is written is the author's opinion, unless specifically stated.

Would you take as much offense to MerlynNY's comment if it was plastered with "IMO" or "I think...". From your writing about acceptance, it doesn't seem that you would.

Aex

@MerlynNY: As TheAbsoluteJay said...it's awful that you were that close to the whole thing. I am genuinely sorry. However, that doesn't give you a monopoly on judgment or opinions regarding the whole thing. How exactly are you qualified to make such sweeping statements about the guy's -intent-?

This whole "it offends me so it can't be art!" mentality is pretty disgusting and speaks to a great deal of what's wrong with our culture now.

EmpressInYellow

@TheAbsoluteJay: You read him incorrectly. No where in his comment did he mention that this wasn't art... He just said it isn't a "successful work of art"...

To refute him properly, you would have to give a definition of "successful work of art". To point out what you consider to be a small flaw in his point does not invalidate it unless you can prove it to be a flaw :P

Aex

@MerlynNY: How do you know that? Do you know him personally? Has he come out and said that he is just looking for attention? Your vicinity to the towers does not give you any right to label him as those things. You can have them as your opinion, but when you throw around that you were a block away from the towers, it makes you look like you think you are more important than others.

Do you think that being closer makes you more American than me? Do you think that you care more about what happened because you were closer and live in NYC?

Because I don't think you are any better than me. Am