@wicko: This.

AcidCrownie

When I was younger, I didn't have a dime to buy games, that's why I emu'd most of 'em. A few years ago I got a job, bought a GameCube, and bought games by bulk. In a few months I'll be releasing a beta of a videogame I expect to get some donations from. If we ever move to live (which we find profitable), we'll also think of releasing a PC version... and it'll be pirated (if it's any good), but there'll be other guys with money that'll buy, plain and simple. I plan to survive on those.
Plus, who doesnt have $7 for a game?

corronchilejano

I pirate PC games and buy used console games! Whatcha gonna do now, huh? Whatcha gonna do?

Leanid

I can sorta understand the "not going to shops issue". My friend uses a Acekard for his DS, and the reason is because he doesn't get mail delivered to his house (not even UPS), and the nearest game store is an hour away.

Raften

@Billkwando:

That's a strawman argument; Your comment was a baseless attempt to undermine the legitimate position that shockingly few here are willing to take: that piracy of entertainment media is wrong and harmful to the respective industries.

The petulant whiners are the people who think they are entitled to goods which they have not purchased. The fact that anyone has to explain that concept to them is utterly sad.

@NuZZ:

Alot of you seem to be sticking up for peoples "hard work". -NuZZ

Why is hard work in quotation marks? Do you think making video games is easy? It's long shifts, little-to-no job security, and lots of skill and training. They deserve to make money when people consume their products.

doubtful

@UltimateIdiot: Thing is small developers are usually not the ones being hit very hard. Crackers are not too interested in cracking some small dev game. They want to break the latest game before it's even in stores. Players usually feel more guilty stealing from a small devs. It's like you steal from walmart and you probably don't feel as bad as stealing from the mom and pop store.

DRM is a huge issue for lots of us. There are good reasons to run no cd cracks(not wanting to waste laptop battery life with a cd drive). Do DRM right and we will pay for the games - hence steams popularity.

Other people simply can't afford games. They only pirate because they can, if they couldn't they wouldn't play games. This is at least a entrance for many who will probably one day have money, and buy games.

Most people buy games for that magic code that lets us online anyways.

sereal

This guy has earned the respect of me and many others by doing this.

He is very smart. Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. ;)

Mobus

@digamma: This logic is fail. if 1000 people pirate the game its 30,000 to 50,000 they lose. Losses balloon because people think like this.

djlowballer

sounds like stockholm syndrome

MonkeyBiz

I taught I would need to go look at videos or something to have a good laugh today !

Ah, I would say the worst for of piracy, is burned games/music/movies that freakin thiefs sell in flea markets and stuff. They are actually making money off people that deserve it. I would never ever buy from them arrrrg

GodKiller0

@Jon-Claw: "I wonder how many hypocrites are posting here... "

I was wondering the same. Out of all the shoops that have been de whooped, how many do think were done on legitimate copies of Photoshop? (I'm really curious what the ratio of purchased to pirated on Photoshop is.)

I'm guessing that there are very few people here who've never ever downloaded something without paying for it.

How many of you have an MP3 of "Still Alive" somewhere? And how many of you bought the Portal soundtrack?

I'm guessing there is some jealousy afoot, and that some of the folks bemoaning piracy are doing so because they're just too paranoid to engage in it themselves (or their parents/university/dialup won't let them).

I buy my games. I don't really play PC games, but I have occasionally downloaded old PC titles that are no longer available for sale. In this sense, the crackers are doing us all a favor, by ensuring that certain games are out there and available, even if they're too old to be financially viable for the developer. To me, "out of print" means fair game.

Anyway, sometimes I've downloaded obscure Japanese PS2 games that I've never heard of, just to see what they are. There's no way I'd buy an import game, sight-unseen, just to see what it's like. However, if I do like it enough to play it, and it's not too text-heavy, then I'd buy it. If not, the disc goes in the garbage. (Farewell, "Shuffle! On the Stage"!)

I'll also download those Japanese SNK PS2 compilations, but I buy them immediately once they're released here.

You guys can paint the whole piracy thing as a black and white issue, and say that everyone who ever downloads anything is a cheapskate thief, but it's not alwys that simple (and it makes you sound like petulant, posturing whiners....with a side-order of likely hypocrisy).

Billkwando

@IceCold: Nope. I didn't say anything was right or wrong or good or bad. I said people pirate because they can and they don't look beyond their own interests. And you proved my point quite nicely. Thanks.

dry-roasted-peanuts

I agree with the game quality reason. I've downloaded many a psp game, games that I would have bought, and would have been disappointed for wasting my money. And I've bought games I never thought I would have. Because I downloaded them and tried them out.

If they aren't worth my money I don't bother =x...

That said, Free is still a hard price to beat >.>....

R1co281

Well at least most of you guys see the good sides of piracy although I am willing to say it has bad sides too.

I can't really add nothing that hasn't been said or that i might have said before...but the thing all you piracy haters should think about is that at least half of you didn't even buy your own copy of windows. So it's like stealing the console and then buying games.

In the near future I plan to buy, GTA 4, diablo 3, at least one good online fps (natural selection 2 if possible) and pay Anarchy Online subscriptions. The rest, I will probably download and then I might buy if I deem it's worth it either to help the game makers or to get the cool online multiplayer stuff. I really don't see this very different from borrowing a game from a friend or going to rent it.

I still got like 5-6 big games I downloaded and didn't try...maybe I will try em someday and then tell everyone how it was a good or bad game

GodKiller0

Yarr, there be much talk of mutiny aboard this ship...
What have ye lads got against pirates? We make an honest enough livin' - sure, we may be the Scourge of the Seas, but we're not all bad. Me first-mate, Lou, he likes to sell flowers to the locals when we come to port. Keeps 'em all potted in 'is quarters, he does.
An' how can ye deny a man 'is rum? Eh? Eh?? Out at sea for so long, without the touch of a woman, and then we come t' port and ye sell us o'erpriced ale that tastes like it came from a stale wench's...

Oh, wait, what kinda pirates are we talkin' about?

AntiheroKing

@GOD: I'm sorry if you think it's lazy or irritable to want to be able to play the games you buy. I love games and have been a gamer for 30+ years now (since Pong!). I own a PC because I'm a software developer (including tools used by the game industry). I upgrade hardware a lot. Every time I do, I shouldn't have to re-register my hardware for every game I'm playing. That's not lazy, that's just a reasonable expectation. Apparently you've never had the lovely experience of arguing with a game publisher's technical support (usually EA) trying to convince them that, yes, you really do own the game you shelled out $50-60 for, and yes, they really should send you a new key so that you can continue to play it. I've even wasted entire days e-mailing and faxing receipts and photocopies of my original disc because some minimum-wage jackhole decided I'd registered too many times, and therefore must be a filthy pirate.

Bottom line for me, is that if there's no crack available for a game, I just won't buy it and I'll never play it. That equals both a lost sale on that product and lost sales on any sequels, since there's no reason for me to play those. There are games I own that I've been playing for 10 years now, like Starcraft, that will continue to work indefinitely because they don't require any haggling with DRM key managers. I've even bought multiple copies of Starcraft because I wanted to play LAN games at work. I can't say the same for virtually any game that's come out by most publishers in the last 8-10 years. If I can't find a crack for it from one of the pirate groups, then it's not worth my money, because someone else controls when you can and can't play it.

This isn't just about game protection. The same thing goes for movies and music. If I like a CD, I buy it and rip it to my iPod. No matter what happens to Apple, I'll always have the CD and I'll always be able to listen to what I paid money for. If, in your world, that makes me lazy and irritable, well, I guess there are quite a lot of lazy and irritable bastards out there. I have a CD collection numbering in the 1000's. If I had purchased all of that music from the DRM-infested iTunes, I would have a vast library of music that I can enjoy today on the iPod that I own right now, but if Apple gets wiped off the earth tomorrow or, more likely, someone produces a better PMP that you'd rather own, there's not a damn thing you could do to use that music on a new device -- you paid money for it, but can't use it anymore. Have fun with that. Your only option is to burn it to a disc and re-rip to an open media format, but now you've lost audio quality (plus that's illegal according to the DMCA, so you're now a music pirate and can face prosecution).

dougr650

I download a lot of games from torrents and what not, I don't do so simply because I can. Chances are that if I download a game I'll play it once, maybe twice before I decide if I really like it and then I will buy it, then I crack my purchased version.

90% of the games I have on my hardrive right now I've owned at some point and either lost the disc or had the disc too damaged to play, you can't just say everyone is stealing the stuff. Why would I not download an old game I used to own like Birth of the Federation when my only other alternitave is to pay 200$ for someone elses? What about game companies who release a demo with 1 fully functional level and the rest of the game falls to shit? They are stealing from you by giving you a false representation of what you are buying.

Finstern

@Gutek: if i could pay them the 10 bucks its worth instead i would

Fire Storm

@Knaaks: No, actually, I'm aware of several people who hold to the anarchist rationale, and the three games I've pirated were because I couldn't get demos and I didn't know if they worth buying - one was, and I bought it a couple of days later, two weren't, and were deleted within four or five days.

Mister Adequate

...Because it hurts the profits from the PC version of the game and urges developers to swich over to, the more secure, consoles. Death to PC gaming!

Nedge

Alot of you seem to be sticking up for peoples "hard work".

I just do what I please for entertainment. I don't need to care for developers, mainly big developers, as MY singular impact of their wealth is meaningless.

Simple fact is that we are all living for ourselves. If it is so easy to get free entertainment people want, then you can't just point the finger and yell THIEF!

It doesn't work like that on the internets.

NuZZ

@Haroludo: Fantastic points!

It is about the same as your friend lending you a game he bought.

If I borrow the game, I get to play it for free. But apparently that is fine right? If I "Pirate" Something, I am basically borrowing it from whoever put it up. I see nothing wrong with it.

Gravnar

Cheap, lazy, pathetic bastards.

Evil Tortie's Mom

@GOD: Yes because I am a filthy person for not wanted to shell out 60 dollars for a game that I might not like. I spend money on console games all the time, and guess what, most of the time I end up trading the game it because it wasn't good. At least this way I don't lose more than half of the money I payed on it. It is all a financial thing for most people.

What about people that can't afford games. Should they be denied fun because they can't afford to pay the outrageous prices?

Gravnar

Can someone tell me just how renting doesn't damage the industry?

I understand that the Rental place buys a copy of the game, or several. It gets rented several hundred times and the Rental place makes it's money back and then some.

If I rent a game, I most likely won't buy it.
If I pirate a game I most likely won't buy it.

If I plan to buy the game, I reserve it so I have it from day one.

So, If I don't rent or pirate, it doesn't matter to anyone but me.

Why is renting so legit?

My point? Piracy by individual consumers for private use does not impact the way the publishes wish to portray.

Another point?

What is downright hurting? BOOTLEGGING!!! People who are selling the pirated copies!!!

Not only are they not paying for the software they are selling, they are DIRECTLY COMPETING with authorized resellers.

Haroludo

@doubtful: I agree. There are so many games I want to buy, but don't have enough money to buy, so instead of pirating, I pass on them/rank games I want the most and get them.

tironabardheblu

I don't pirate games, but I think charging full price for a single player only game (Uncharted, Ratchet, BioShock) is really crap. I mean, $40 should be enough. Multiplayer only games are $40. Why single player only games $60? I get more value out of multiplayer, and I can just rent singleplayer only games. Publishers need to rethink pricing strategies.

tironabardheblu

If I think about it,all my friends who has a PSP and one friend who has a Nintendo DS hacks their games.The compagnies should really talk about it.

cxplorer

A business clearly can't compete with "free," and taking something for nothing while others pay for it is obviously wrong, especially when the creator depends upon your purchase for his/her livelihood.

I think we all know what must be done:

Close the libraries.

Johnny Pneumatic

@Ravenous:

I live in Europe and there's no way to afford buying all the games I need... -Ravenous

Therein lies your problem. Games are a luxury, not a need.

Deciding it's something you need only makes it easier to rationalize theft.

doubtful

@JoshReflek:

Most importantly, media producers need to accept that a pirated copy does not equal a lost sale on a 1:1 ratio. -JoshReflek

No, they don't. Pirates need to accept that consuming a digital product without paying for it is theft. Either buy it before consuming or don't, but if you use a copy of something without paying for it, you have benefited from someone's hard work without compensating them for it.

Whereas others use it like a rental without the bullshit retail entails. -JoshReflek

Like paying for a service that operates with the blessing of the game companies and generates revenue for the industry?

Yes, stealing is just like that. :|

Piracy keeps the industry alive. -JoshReflek

Right. That's exactly why PC gaming is flourishing and developers aren't switching to consoles because there is less piracy.

Only in the dream world of rationalization does stealing from someone help their industry survive.

doubtful

Well it may or may not GOD thats the thing.... Piracy is becoming a crutch for the game industry (i work in the game industry by the way...) To many people blame Pirates for all their failings sometimes they just make shitty games and dont want to admit it and blame pirates for their failings.... The fact is piracy isnt hurting the gaming Industry as the people pirating the game likely would of not bought the game in the first place if they could of downloaded it.... In fact if anything I'd say it's likely helping the gaming industry...

Must as you may not want to believe it people being able to pirate quite often leads many of us to buying the good games and dumping the bad ones.... The only people it really hurts are the idiots making the crappy games getting them exposed and people not buying them on blind stupidity... While crimes arnt good The gaming industry needs to try harder to give people a reason not to pirate...

You can believe what you want but you try and make it way to black and white. Piracy in retrospect shouldnt even be illegal under law (jail time shouldnt be possible from it) in reality the fact is it should come down to a civil matter and nothing else. I think the fact that it is illegal under law in some ways is proof that the entertainment industry has way to much power...

Also i dont condone the acts of crimes i'm just saying that the reasons for pirating are actually Solid arguments to do it wether it is right or not. You dont need to act like an idiot towards someone and act harsh to them unprovoked either.

Piracy needs to not become an excuse for developers to do shitty games or crappy things to their legit customers. They are the ones making piracy worse instead of trying to make it better.... It wasnt as bad when there wasnt a ton of DRM slapped on everything. Steve Jobs and many others have stated that DRM just doesnt work after having used it themselves and many people are starting to realize its not worth it.

The amount of piracy will improve once alot of these issues are actually addressed and people have more faith in the gaming industry. Alot of people have lost faith in the gaming industry and turned to piracy its a sad fact but its out there and We the game developers and publishers are the ones that need to examine what WE ourselves are doing wrong not just what the pirates are up to...

linadragon

it's that slacker mentality of "I won't get caught and I can't wait to get this/ I don't have any cash" mixed with "I am a rebel and won't bend to the MAN and pay his ridiculous pricing" coupled with "I am smarter than all them and here's proof".

Honestly, if they applied the same amount of effort to something other than thieving they might find true success and a clean Karma to boot. Karma's a bitch!

I feel bad for the little guys trying to start up a biz getting ganked out of biz by a bunch of these thieves. Bigger devs, they've got pockets and it doesn't hurt them as much.

Awoken

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: If I was a gaming company I would want to make low risk ventures with possibly higher returns than putting loads of money into a game that might not sell well at all. The consumer is currently lapping up this shovel ware shit, and I'm guessing this trend is not going to stop any time soon.

Anyway!

I'm off to play a bit of Bionic Commando then off to bed for me!

Take it easy all of you, and don't be a pirate!

GOD

I went to the US and games were so cheap I had no problems buying a bunch of them (because of the weak dollar). I live in Europe and there's no way to afford buying all the games I need, even with the decent-paying full time job I have. So for me, I discovered, it's definitely the pricing.

Ravenous

@GOD: That's possible, but if traditional gamers become a smaller market, then it just validates my earlier fear-- that there isn't any way to lower the price on traditional games because the audience for those games is drying up, so you can't hope to tap a wider audience. If the Wii is just coining a new, unrelated sort of experience... it doesn't help out publishers at all. Unless they just want to make minigames and such. Is the traditional game really a dying breed?

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@GOD: I totally agree with you that piracy hurts the industry. It just seems to me that some of the companies blame the pirates for 100% of their problems and fail to acknowledge they could treat their customers better. Sorry to hear the importing business isn't doing so well.

@GOD: Peace it is then.

MattB

@linadragon: Should the law get off it's high horse and arrest your ass!

If you don't trust reviews and the demo didn't do anything for you (if there even was one) then maybe the game was crap, or if it was indeed a good game the publishers should have tried harder to convince you.

What it doesn't give you the right to do is commit a crime.

GOD

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: There will be no need to "Graduate". gamers as we define them will slowly become a smaller group of people.

There is a shit load of readers out there. only a few will read the Lord of the Rings, but a fuck load more will read some crappy novel or the tabloid newspaper each morning to get their fix of entertainment.

GOD

To the people that say "Look at reviews" and other BS .... Get off your high horse and shut it and listen for a minute...

First off.... Reviews are highly unreliable to judge if something is going to suit your personal tastes or your needs.... WIthout a trial offer (an actual full version trial for a set period of time) or a Demo ( a good demo not some shitty 2 minute level or something less then 10 mins) there isnt much you can tell about YOUR personal taste based on what someone elses personal tastes are. There are things people hate that I love. There are things that people love that I hate. Reviews are horribly unrealistic in this day and age and many are paid testimonials or fanboys so you cant really tell how its going to operate....

2 - While DRM was made to originally combat piracy it has gone to far with limited installs etc (this is especially hard on those of us that build our own systems...) This screws with legit users etc. There are ways to combat piracy without being obtrusive to the legit user.... The connecting to the internet idea works.... But checking multiple times is ludicrous. Checking once on initial install to make sure its an actual key relating to the CD or Installer your using is a better way.... Keep a database of the keys and crosscheck them on the initial install and if its a duplicate its pirated period...

3. I'm sure most of you have committed piracy of some sort... Be it music or movie downloads, Recording songs off the radio, Making off the radio mix tapes, Recording things onto a VCR and letting a friend borrow it, Backing up a DVD and letting a friend borrow it etc... There are many things that would be considered piracy in some form that most of you have committed at some point in your lives so dont try and argue that its wrong when you yourself are hypocritical it weakens your argument...

4. Demo's..... They are important for getting a taste of what a game is like... Most of them are piss poor and give no real inkling of what actual game play is like. Judging by reviews on sites when you dot know the other people and they dont know you. People's tastes differ and going to a site and getting reviews from people that may or may not have the same tastes as you isnt really accurate..

5. Quality.... Games have been lacking in quality as of late and you never know what your going to get. You say if your not going to like it dont buy it... But how the hell are we supposed to tell if we are going to like it (as noted above twice game reviews are really unreliable...)

6. Release Dates.... Games arnt always released at the same time in every region and sometimes take months to get a release in another region....

7... Finally Costs.... I think this is one of the smallest reasons to actually pirate... People dont always pirate just to get stuff free (though with how the US economy is now they probably do more so then in the past...) PC games usually dont have demo's you rely on what the game company says and possible interest that may or may not pan out.... Games arnt costing the same in each region they are released and quite often cost more then they are worth.

Most of these arguments that pirates have are actually quite legitimate as an argument for pirating.... If Publishers would examine things alot more they would actually cut down on pirating because alot of people that pirate for the reasons stated would actually stop. You see pirate you think bad because the media has simply brainwashed you into thinking its totally good (publishers vs bad (pirates) but there is a ton of Grey area in between there and stating pirating is entirely good or entirely bad is overtly stupid...

linadragon

Longer demos is a big plus, one might pirate a game because they don't want to pay full-price to know if a game is worth it. A half-hour demo should precede just about every game IMO.

Then there is the price. I only played BioShock one time but I'd have gladly paid an extra $20 to have played it cause it's a very worthwhile experience. Meanwhile I paid $50 for Crysis and quite honestly I just don't think it was worth that much, $30 yeah but it didn't wow me past it's graphics.

Hell there's some games you could very well say I'd pay hundreds for. I bought an XBox for Halo after I played it for a while. If I didn't have to exercise such financial restraint right now I would have bought a PS3 largely to play MGS4.

I always wanted to start a videogame review site that didn't give a percentage for a game but rather the bottom line: how much money is the game actually worth? Some would be low ("Wait a few months."/"Buy it used.") others would be justified ("Paying full price is worth it to play this now.") and more rarely games would go beyond there retail price ("Orange Box.") or in the rarest of cases they'd be worth buying a new graphics card or purchasing a console for.

Quite frankly it's one of my few ideas I've had that I can't put into action but am surprised no one else has.

Absent Blue

@MattB: OK OK! it's been a long day. please don't thow that at me lol

Peace?

GOD

All of those reasons are solid and make sense.

You could combine #2 'games are too expensive' with #3 'inconsistant quality' as one reason. This is the biggest reason for piracy.

DRM is offensive. I will not buy a game that has DRM on it on pricipal alone.

Going to the shops is annoying due to the travel and the sales staff nagging you to buy a strategy guide or reserve a copy of something, this is especially insulting when the 'reservation' doesnt guarantee your copy will be held.

Most importantly, media producers need to accept that a pirated copy does not equal a lost sale on a 1:1 ratio.

Some may pirate just to get a real 'demo' experience of a game without 90% of the actual features ripped out (ie: soul calibur with 3 characters only)

Whereas others use it like a rental without the bullshit retail entails.

If i do pirate and i end up liking the game, i will always buy a full copy, ESPECIALLY when it has strong multiplayer, and will do so perferrably from the developer's website or at their booth during a convention.

Piracy keeps the industry alive. Games are too expensive to continue buying them even if you research it only to find the final release has half of the cool features ripped out or was marketed with shopped screen grabs taken from a rig that isn't realistic. (using a high end pc to demo a console title)

JoshReflek

@MattB: Sorry mate. Just read back. You do make alot of sense, but you cannot say that piracy doesn't harm the industry.

The spread of the R4 is an amazing example.

The company I work for import US DS games and sell them on. Befor the R$ we sold shit loads of them. As more and more people started to use the R4 we started to see a drop in sales. We now hardly sell any import NDS stuff.

In this case the people who knew about importing games also knew about the R4.

Same with PCs.

A sereous PC gamer will know how to get pirate copies of games.

As the internet gets faster and downloading a DVD takes less time piracy has exploded.

Please don't take my comments to heart. Piracy just pisses me off rotten. I see the harm it does first hand.

GOD

@Bone Structure:

Is he wearing a Robe and Wizard Hat?

(Great analogy btw :D )

jello44

@GOD: Ding!

Sounds like the bell just rang for your English comprehension course.

Best of luck!

MattB

@Bone Structure: That's a very apt analogy, and wizards are kick-ass. However, it's not highlighting the fact that the duplicant (is that a word? I mean to say, one who duplicates) cannot make something from nothing... and that the 'pizza' in this case cost millions and millions of dollars to make.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@GOD: You're right-- the Wii is opening up a lot of doors. But do you see a lot of those new devotees really looking to 'graduate' (if you buy Microsoft's terminology) to a 'real' console like the 360, PS3, or PC? I'm not sure the Wii is doing much to make those people real gamers in the sense we are... meaning, people who follow the hobby over generations and platforms. I think a lot of the Wii audience likes the Wii, but doesn't necessarily like 'gaming' in any way that will translate to future habits.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@MattB: Ding!

Sounds like your DVD burner just got finished.

Better go see to it.

Bye!

GOD

@Bone Structure: I think that's the most apt analogy on the topic I've yet seen.

MattB

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: on topic, personally, I don't pirate games. The games I buy are usually well researched long before I put down the coin for a purchase. So I know what I'm getting. Crysis is a good example of a game I'd never play. First of all, we all knew the system requirements for that game were ridiculous. That is reason enough for a pass.

Another example...Gears of War2. Will go down as GOTY candidate. Will I buy it? No. Wasn't feeling the first one enough to warrant a purchase, the sequel is for fans of the first which I ain't. Pass. If I could pirate it would I? No. What's the point in getting it free if you're never going to play it? I know a guy that pirated at least 50 or so PSP games. Why? He's not going to play all of them because he doesn't have the time or the desire. Why do people pirate shit they're not going to use? Stupid.

All of the games I've bought over the last two years or so have been well research because of the turds that too many people get suckered into buying. Movies on the other hand. I can see why people pirate movies. I went on a date to see Hancock and that movie was a piece of shit. I was so pissed that I paid to see that trash. I knew I shouldn't have let the woman choose. Actually Hancock isn't even worth pirating. It's so bad why waste the download time and HDD space? Yeah, I can totally see why people would rape Hollywood especially with ticket prices on the rise.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: I get what you are saying, but I do feel ther is alot more potential for the size of the videogame industry. The Wii is the beginning of the future demoghaphic expansion of the video game consumer.

My gran has her own Wii FFS!

GOD

A sorceror walks into your family Pizza business, his arms pulsing with energy, and eyes literally dripping mana. He walks over to a Quadmeat, family sized pizza and outstretches his arm. You shriek back in fear, uncertian of his next movement. Suddenly, you hear a thunderous voice;

"REPLICORIUM!!"

Immediately, the Quadmeat Family Sized pizza Duplicates, and appears in the sorcerors hand. He grins, and beings to make his way to the exit. Before he leaves, you utter something.

"Arent you gonna pa --" And before you can say another word, the sorcerors hands form into a gesture indicative of a hush. Your mouth is sealed shut. You try your hardest to speak, but you are temporarily silenced. As he leaves, you see him createing more copies of your pizza, giving them to any who will accept. Your body shivvers as you begin to wonder if your business will survive.

Bone Structure

@dougr650: Why the hell do you even own a PC if all this shit you talk about pisses you off. I think you should get a new hobby like riding bikes or reading.There is no DRM in those hobbies, and last i heard you don't even have to have, the biggest of all inconviences, a DVD in your DVD drive for them!!!

You are either the laziest or most irratable man on the planet.

Sit down and think about the things that inconvene you and compare them with real issues that life holds.

GOD

@GOD: Nothing you said there even related to my comment. You did read it right?

MattB

@ZeeBeeEss: dude, have you LOOKED at the lineups for all the consoles (except maybe the Wii) since like, Halo 3 in September 07. If you had to save up just TWO WEEKS to buy a game you wanted, you'd be about three months behind the release schedule. I don't pirate any games for my Xbox 360 and I haven't yet played Army of Two, Bad Company, Condemned 2, or Rainbow Six Vegas 2, all of which are games I've been looking forward to for a long time.

Gunhaver

@GOD: I'm not against that thinking, but until the business model actually shows that six times as many people would buy it at ten dollars than would at sixty dollars, I'm wary of the suggestion. I'm of the mind that traditional games reach what is pretty much the maximum audience possible right now. I don't think there are many traditional gamers who would buy loads more games if they were suddenly a lot cheaper. At least, not enough new gamers to buy enough games to balance out the cheaper prices. I know that for myself, it's less about price and more about time. I buy and rent plenty of games to keep me occupied-- and if games were cheaper, I'd just play the same number of games, and pay less for them. So I'm unsure there are that many additional, unsold eyeballs out there...

If that makes any sense. I took some medicine, and I'm a bit out of it. Sorry!

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

I don't pirate games. Why? I don't have the current know-how to do so, or the motivation to learn.

And if I did, it would be something like putting Super Mario World on my PSP - nothing current.

I don't mind supporting the gaming industry.

sir_carrot

uh...yeah, now if the pirates can do something about the retarded DRM with Sony's videos on PSN. I bought the shit, you have the records to confirm it. I'm legit. I can transfer the videos to my PSP but NOT to my external HDD? Are you fucking kidding me? What happens if my PS3 HDD dies? I can't even watch PSN videos on PSP through remote play. What kind of nonsense is that? It's streaming media and not at the best quality on a portable screen but DRM locks THAT out?

Yeah..pirates...please, could you look into that. Thanks

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@HioMrSan: Since when was it "easy" to pirate 360 games?

YoYoBoY

@MattB: What you could say is...

I can go out and kill a man tomorrow, but it't ok because I intend on having a child, so I'm putting my effort back into the population?!?!

There are no fine lines mate.

Piracy is stealing. ther is no valid justification.

Sorry.

Just tell that to a judge, and see what he would say before he slams your ass with a sentence.

And as far as playing into the consumers hands goes.

The average consumer doesn't know what DRM stands for or even does, so why the hell should the majority of video games consumers give a toss if it is ther or not.

Once again it is only a small handfull of losers who care for such things.

ANY internet forum/comments section does not represent the opinion of the masses by a fucking loooooong way.

GOD

@doubtful: Actually, unlike some, my morals are absolute for me; I never break them as they're part of who I am. I strive to be a good person by my own definition of good (don't do things to others you wouldn't like done to yourself and whatnot).

You misunderstood my quote though =3
"my morals are a guideline for me and nobody else" means I don't expect anyone else to do what I think are right and wrong, nor do I attempt to enforce them on others.

The Law? I don't consider the law in my morals; they're just something I follow to avoid getting arrested and like most people I likely won't follow them if there's no risk of getting caught (except in cases where they happen to coincide with my moral guidelines).

Fair enough on the music front, I do gain from downloading them I guess.
The point I was making however is that it's still zero sum for the music industry though as when I didn't pirate they got no money and when I do... they still gain no money.

Geminosity

I pirate stuff because I don't know what the quality is before I get it.

For example: Crysis. I pirated that game because A) of it's stupid system requirements and B) I didn't know if it was any good. Consequently it turned out I should have pirated it because it was barely running at 30 FPS on a good PC and it was only 6 hours long on hard. How am I supposed to justify the price tag for a game that puts flash and bang over gameplay?

As another example I pirated COD4 (PC) to see if it was up to snuff and after finishing the amazing single player I was completely sold. I then bought it off Steam during pre-sale and used the pirated files to install in a fraction of the time.

In other cases I don't bother with reviews or pirating at all because it's from Bioware or Valve. Bioware because they make brilliant experiences that never fail to give me my moneys worth and great memories. Valve because they treat their community with care and know that free content increases the inherent value of the game making it worth every penny.

To put it simply: I pirate games to make I'm not going to get ripped off. $50 or $80 is alot of money and I don't want to be wasting it on a 6 hour tech demo for the new Crytek engine or that buggy mess called STALKER. Unless I see a glowing review from EGM or 1up.com it's a gamble I don't need to take.

GreyFoxV1

Of all the reasons someone might choose to pirate a game, the only one that really rings true for me is that the pirated game is, hands down, a superior product to the off-the-shelf product. You're not going to get locked out of playing the game just because you changed your hardware or lost the original disc or the publisher decided they couldn't keep their DRM key servers running. You're not going to be forced to keep the disc in the drive while you're playing the game. You're not going to be hassled when you change your hardware configuration. You're not going to have rootkits or resource-hogging spyware installed without your knowledge.

The game just plays, and you can still use your computer however you like (listening to CD, with the network off, with a new HDD, whatever). You truly own the game and are free to play it without being constantly challenged about whether you are the actual owner or not.

I never buy PC games until the cracked version is released by the pirate groups. Then I buy the game, install it and the crack, and play it free of all the hassle and rigmarole. If you don't have control over what you install on your computer, then you don't own it at all, and it's value is markedly less than a product that you can control and still play 20 years from now.

Any product with DRM is always going to be worth much less than a similar product with out. The "R" stands for "Restriction," not "Rights!" You have more restrictions and less rights with a DRM-crippled product, whether it's music or software or movies.

dougr650

I've pirated a game or two in the past... but only because I'm scared of leaving the house.
They're out to get me, you see.
Them.

Wizzard

The average pirate and criminal both rationalize their crimes. Pirating software is a different level of crime than armed robbery, but the rationalization process is the same.

If they don't believe they'll get caught they do it. Morals aren't an issue. They can rationalize away morals in a heartbeat. They just find some reason to belive it's ok.

JackB99

@otimus:

I think everything should be free, all forms of information should be free... -otimus

One problem. Games, music, movies, books, art, and software are not information. They are recreational or productivity products. Or do you only pirate encyclopedias and technical manuals? (Which are, btw, available for free from your local library, at least in the US.)

doubtful

@wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!: But at 10 dollars it would be affordable to more people. creating more revenue.

That's my thinking anyway.

Still no excuse for filthy pirates.

When Cinema was a new thing it was only affordable by the wealthy. The industry eventually realised that a bigger audience at lower prices could drive commercial viability.

Gaming is still in it's infancy in my eyes. We will see things in a whole new light in about 10 to 15 years time.

Mark my words!!!

GOD

@GOD: The problem with what you're saying there is that you're going off the assumption that someone is either a pirate or not a pirate. In reality there's a fine line between a customer and a pirate, and someone who pirates one game may happily buy another if they think it's worth doing so.

There are at least two kinds of pirates:
The first kind are those who will pirate a game simply because it's free and they can, and would not buy the game otherwise. These people will not buy your game no matter what you do. Spending time and money stopping these people from getting your game is pointless. You can call them names and hate them all your like, but their real-world effect on the industry is likely negligible.

The second kind of pirate are those who might have bought your game, but decided not to for some reason and instead pirated it. These people are still pirates, but they are equally also lost customers. These are the people costing the industry money. The lost sales. If there is a way to get these people back into the fold and buy games then it may well be effort well spent. These are the people to which issues like DRM, convenience, game quality and price are relevant.

I think you're right in saying playing into the pirate's hands is not the answer, but playing into your customers hands may well be.

MattB

@otimus:

and how, in this world of free "information", would you put food on the tables of those, who create that "information"?

Gutek

@evolution0: Yeah, but at ten dollars, the developers couldn't afford to make that game. They'd be challenged to make even a much smaller, more limited game with a commensurate budget. So it's a hard problem to solve.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

I think everything should be free, all forms of information should be free, but I'm not an anarchist, nor do I use that as a crutch of an excuse.
Simply put, I pirate anything I can't afford, then buy it when I can, if I like it. Except for music.

If there was an easy way to "Rent" PC games, like something like Gamefly, only much much much more diverse, I would never pirate anything at all.

otimus

I've done my share of piracy in the past but in the last year i've hardly done any. Recently I downloaded rogue galaxy and started playing. A short while later, Rogue galaxy was on clearance for $9.98 (brand new)... even though I have a perfectly functioning dvd-r copy I went out and bought it. $10 is worth it for the vast majority of good games.

evolution0

@Disdain: "It's like buying a DVD only to have 2-3 minutes of adverts forced on you everytime you want to watch it. Could pirate it and not have any adverts for exactly the same quality in the format that you want it in :("

That's really lousy reasoning.

justhesh

This is why the Wii makes more money on hardware then software.lollll

cxplorer

Make more demos,more content downloable via the internet and you'll get less pirate stealing your stuff.

cxplorer

Demos. If you're too cheap to produce one, expect me to be as cheap in acquiring a copy to test the game out.

Clushje

@Fire Storm:

so anything "not worth" it's price is up for grabs?

Gutek

Fuck pirates, money is hard enough to make without people stealing your final product instead of paying for it.

e-friend

@Fire Storm: i mean reasons 2 and 3

Fire Storm

i pirate mainly for reasons 1 and 2 though i DO buy good games

most games are like 50 or 60 bucks, which im glad to pay if its a great game, but if its a game like gears of war for pc, its not even that great of a game, and im gonna play it once through if i even make it through which i still havent, and never play it again so its not worth the money to me. but the games that i do play regularly i payed for.
in conclusion most games arent worth the money

Fire Storm

@doubtful:

"That's not true. If you do not consume the media you owe the record or game companies nothing. Consume the media and it's no longer a zero sum effect: you have benefited without paying those responsible for producing the media.

Thus the result is net gain for you."

ouch! this one was strikingly coherent.

Gutek

@Geminosity:

...my morals are a guideline for me and nobody else... -Geminosity

The law be damned, eh?

Be honest; your morals start and stop based on how likely it is you will get caught.

...me nabbing tunes off the net pretty much has a zero sum effect: the companies in that particular case aren't losing money because I would never have given them it in the first place... -Geminosity

That's not true. If you do not consume the media you owe the record or game companies nothing. Consume the media and it's no longer a zero sum effect: you have benefited without paying those responsible for producing the media.

Thus the result is net gain for you.

doubtful

While his suggestions have merit irrespective of piracy concerns, I'm unable to believe that taking these steps would alleviate the piracy epidemic plaguing the computer as a platform. Just as Microsoft couldn't get blood from a stone in Japan after attempting to specifically address the problems the Japanese had with the original XBOX, PC piracy is a problem with no solution. There's no right answer-- there are plenty of 'less wrong' answers... but there's no way to SOLVE the problem.

Steam and the like are great. It gives end users the opportunity to buy the games directly, and gives publishers the opportunity to have a level of control over the use of the game that doesn't exist in the retail boxed model. Unfortunately, people can still steal Steam copies, and run them through altered verification systems and play them on pirate servers. So, that doesn't work. It sort of works, but doesn't.

Price is an intriguing one. Prices are what they are because, well, games are super-expensive to develop. Middleware and outsourcing are appealing options, here, but the truth is that the final retail price is generally reflective of the cost that went into developing the title. Honey always gets more bees, but lowering the price just to attract people who haven't shown a commitment to liking your work enough to buy it is a foolish chase. Your audience is the people who buy your work, not the people who steal it. And no price developers will agree to can compete with the absolutely nothing pirates are paying right now. So who are the developers trying to help?

DRM is a bad thing-- at least, current implementations of DRM are nearly universally bad. But DRM conceptually is very important. I don't have any problem with someone making sure I can't just make a perfect copy of my music, or videos, or games, and give them away to everyone I know. I'm not buying that right when I purchase my media. I definitely have an expectation of being able to use my media on all my devices, but I'm not about to condone stealing just to avoid DRM regulations. If I'm uncomfortable with the DRM, I won't buy the product.

The demo issue is humorous. Yes, PC games need demos-- and comprehensive, full-featured demos at that. But pirates use the demo argument as a shield. I can't count the number of times I've seen PC pirates here on Kotaku claim to have pirated Crysis merely as a demo, and that game had a demo. Pirates just cite this because it's convenient-- the demo issue is a real one (PCs need them) but pirates just cling to it because it's unassailable.

Piracy is a complex issue. All the steps the genetleman outlined are very reasonable-- but developers and publishers need to make sure they're taking these steps because it's the right thing to do, and not to appease the people who are stealing from them.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@ashman512: Unfortunately boycotts don't really work in reality. If gamers boycott a game for some reason and the sales are low the publishers don't blame the lost sales on the boycott, they blame it on piracy. Remember how they even tried to claim that with Crysis?...a boring game that hardly anyone has the hardware to run?

MattB

@chaosmage89:

even there, i suspect you bought these games for online, not because you "really liked them".

Gutek

@Gravnar: Thats all well and good, but stop stealing stuff. It's illigal you know.

GOD

I have actually pirated a lot of games for the pc but games that I really like I would always go and buy like Call of Duty 4, and Company of Heroes I went out and purchased. Although I am not happy with the recent expansion for company of heroes and its pain in the ass online sign in to "check for patches" before I can play the single player game.

chaosmage89

All the while PC gaming, which suffers the most from piracy, is in decline. Year on year it is a less viable format to make games for. You may well get a couple of pirates who will purchase the game after downloading an illigal copy, but I'm sure that that percentage is minimal.

I don't think this dude is going in the right direction as it's only a handfull of people who care about the issues raised in his forum.

let us not butter the main reason up any more.

Pirates want cheap ass games.

I'll admit that games are a bit pricey, and also think that there would be a magic price range that would help gaming become more popular, but playing into piracy's hands is not the answer. It may plaese a few people such as those who have to go through the effort of stripping DRM from games, but the people further down the line who just want a game for nothing will still get a game for nothing and still not give a shit about the damage they are doing to the industry.

GOD

All those answers except the DRM issue all come down to the fact that pirates don't want to pay or do anything that requires them to do an effort.

My take on this is the same as Sean 'Elysium' Sands (see The Escapist): the pirates' opinion doesn't matter.

interstate78

No excuse for pirating games. You might not think that pirating games is stealing, because it's just "copying and pasting", but what about the 40 dollars that you're stealing from the developers. Developers aren't CEO's. They don't make 5 million+ a year. If you want to make a stand against games with DRM, don't buy them. It's called a boycott. The quality argument is also complete bull. Is it really that hard to look at a couple of reviews. I have a feeling that if you can pirate the game, you can manage you're way to IGN or 1Up.
What's that? You don't have enough money to buy all the games you want. Well guess what? Too bad. I don't think most game companies are going to say "What's that Johnny? You can't afford my games? Well, here, take it, for free. It's cool.

/endrant

ashman512

@TheDoomer: Funny you mention music piracy actually.

The Music industry was going on about how much music they lost to piracy but in my case that was total nonsense. Before the internet and piracy I never bought Music CDs. While I enjoy music I'd never bother purchasing it even if the alternative is not having it at all; after all you hear plenty of nice music from games, television, movies, etc.

So basically, me nabbing tunes off the net pretty much has a zero sum effect: the companies in that particular case aren't losing money because I would never have given them it in the first place =3

For games though, if I like it, I buy it. I don't care what others get up to; my morals are a guideline for me and nobody else =D

Geminosity

The "I don't want to pay for crap" argument is the most pathetic. You won't pay for it, but you'll still play it? Even if it is free I won't waste my time with low quality. More importantly, that argument can be adjusted, so a game that is genuinely good can be considered "okay" by a pirate to justify their actions.

The whole "its not good enough" schtick goes away once you start trying to play the game online for an extended period of time.

taidan19

@GOD: Actually I am 19 and live with my brother. I just don't drive because the place I work is within walking distance.

Gravnar

@igl: makes no sense to you maybe, but to someone who isn't a thief...

GOD

@ali_g_84uk: I know 2 guys who have modded 360s and can play some copied games online with no problems.

If the CDkey is tied to an account and only that account (see Diablo II and Steam) then that is one way to combat piracy for some games.

I've bought a few games through Steam, I don't have to worry about DRM preventing me from playing a game I bought legit, I don't have to worry about putting the CD or DVD in all the time, more companies really should use Steam, although there are ways to bypass it, in many cases it's too much effort.

DragonNinja

I don't think there's any angle from which piracy can be considered a good thing, but it's saddening to see how many here are dismissing Cliff Harris' findings off hand. Of course there are pirates who do it simply because they can get stuff for free, but commenters here suggesting that's the only reason are being disingenuous. This kind of behaviour is only strengthening that wedge between pirates and the industry. There's plenty of valid ways to fight piracy but demonising the pirates and sticking your head in the sand is not one of them. I say good on Cliff for trying to do something positive here and I hope it works out for them.

MattB

DD has made me buy games normaly I wouldnt have >.> The wait to go take the trip to the store to get the retai copy gives you a lot of time to rethink your purchase. Where as you go on steam and its like "oh well.. its not /that/ much" and then 5 seconds later you've commited to the purchase and cant get the money back.

Murrytmds

Wow... I think I'd like to give this guy a GG.

It's kind of refreshing to see a developer actually work with pirates then fight a losing battle against them. He realizes that if a pirate wants it, they'll get it, and is trying to make his products available and well-produced enough to inspire at least some pirates to purchase the games, just to show that it'll work and encourage the bigwig companies to do the same.

Working with the consumer, not against them; a great business plan.

Jayl3w

@bornonce: You don't have to steal to see if a program fits your needs. There is this thing called the internets. you can find peoples opinions on such programs, or even reviews. Sadly we can also find dirty pirates like you.

I would love for all the people in thes comments section who have said that they pirate to say infront of a judge their justification for stealing software.

I'm guessing that the judge would just laugh his tits off at you.

GOD

@GOD: Read before posting: Because your analogy makes no sense.
Alternatively: Go away. I won't be sitting here, pressing F5, to cheer my opinion in every second post like you anyway.
k, Bye

igl

Let's see..... here's my list of reasons why I've pirated a game before:

1) There's no demo, so I pirate the game as my demo. ALL PC games should have demos.
2) I own the console version already and just want to see what the PC version is like.
3) If it's the type of game I don't normally go out of my way to pick up, such as the billions of FPS games out there, I'll pirate it to at least give it a chance without feeling bad about dropping 50-60 bucks on it.

What I'm saying is, I don't pirate games that I'm really excited about, and if I pirate something then find that I really enjoy it, I'll buy it. Crysis is a really good example: I wasn't too sure about, even after the demo. The demo only ran halfway decent on my computer (20-30 fps at highest), so I had suspicions that I wouldn't be able to even get through the whole game. So I pirated the game to find out, and to my surprise, it ended up working mostly fine and I enjoyed the game a lot, and ended up buying it.

Though to be honest, there have been times I've pirated without a good reason! Like with my PSP. :D But my reasoning for that is the PSP would have been a worthless waste of money if not for the fact that the games are.... "free", and even then I still regret buying one... :P

Poojipoo

I pirate most games because the quality is so unreliable, but if I find a game I love I go and buy it.

necrotoxin

if a Demo is longer than 10 mins maybe some people would buy more games... seriously though if a game is really good I'll buy it even if I did obtain a free version otherwise I treat it like the trash it is and delete it. Games demos with time limits suck... game demos that start you in the middle of the game suck... Why do jrpg do that anyway? You'd think they would let you play till the first boss and allow you to taste the story a little. Make a good demo that gives me a good idea of the game and the story and I'm good, but if your demo is trash and I like the idea of the game I'll download it and check it out... if it's substandard I'll deleted... otherwise I purchase a full copy. I did pirate Oblivion (I have the 360 version) to see how well my PC could run it... now I'm seriously considering buying because of the mod that turns the whole game of marrowind into the Oblivion engine.

Cueil

I pirate if I think that I might be interested in the game or program because demos do not always do the game or program justice. However, because I use gamefly, I never pirate console games (except for the XBox, because it is far easier to play a game off of the HDD than dealing with all of the DVD-read issues). I will pirate a program to see if it serves my needs. If it does, and is reasonably priced, then I will normally buy it so that I can get free or discounted updates. For example, I use Womble's MPEG program all of the time. I downloaded a cracked version via a user group, but I so liked it that I bought it. I also downloaded a copy of F.A.K.K. 2, even though I actually have the disc, because of the user mods available to a cracked version.

If I had a mod chip for the 360 and didn't have GameFly, however, I would in all probability download the cracked iso to see if the game is worth buying. If I am interested in a PC version, the I am likely to download the cracked ISO, again, to avoid DRM, allow for user mods, and completely run off of the HDD.

bornonce

@kojirodensetsu: If you cannot afford something just don't purchase it, and for the love of GOD don't steal it you grubby little man!

GOD

Well, before the Wii, the only way to download Nintendo titles was via ROMs. Sure you can buy from ebay or something but then you have to wait a week for the game. Downloading is just simple and easy. Not to mention the files are easily transportable. Does a friend want to play a game? You can just send them the ROM.

For full PC titles it's probably just to get the games for free. Developers need to do more things to promote people to buy the retail version. Collector's editions are a nice step but the bad thing about them is they tend to cost more than the normal version (-cough- Halo 3 legendary edition with the helmet). How I see it the $60 retail version should come with something else besides the game from the get-go. $60 is too much for me to buy a game.

I sort of started talking about console games obviously.. but I'm sure the same could be applied to PC games.

Also a good thing Blizzard did that made me buy Diablo 2 was required a legit cd key to be able to play online.

kojirodensetsu

@igl: Shit!

Why don't we put you in charge of the planet. You seem to have some great ideas! (Sarcasm)

I don't quite like the new body shape of the VW golf I might go out and nick it tomorrow, and screw over some bloke who worked hard for it! I'll be damned if I'm paying cash money for that shit!

You sir are an idiot!

End of.

GOD

@Winterbringer: - "That's the most pathetic line up of excuses I've ever heard."

Agreed. They're terrible excuses, and then some.

@flight240: - "i'm under the impression that pirates pirate because it's free."

Same here.

dead_red_eyes

I'd plunk down cash on a game that is worth the investment.Keyword investment, not a game Im gonna finish and then turn around and sell or trade, but really want to keep for the long term.Replay value.Longevity. Which is why most of my game purchases are multiplayer titles.

MyLittlePwny

@eastshore4: You speak wise words good sir!

GOD

I can highly agree with the quality argument.
Games aren't just on the rock solid q3 engine anymore.
I even pirated a lot of games, that I originally bought. Simply because they don't deliver what you expect.

e.g Crysis/Call of Duty 4 - for not supplying the English language files of the game and I HATE translations because they are _always_ sub-standard-low-budget-TV-show ones.
DIRT - for having a broken spyROM version, crashing my sys without even touching the game. (You can ask the SecuROM support for a uninstaller btw, they'll give you a link - Codemasters forums as full of secuROM problems)

IMO "the industry" sucks at selling stuff -- specially online. I could write a blog about how often I ditch into issues with DRM or general EA-Consumer-Experiences (my benchmark for bad).
Steam is good, but not perfect yet. Too less games and them not selling 18+ games in my homeland of Germany, spoils the fun. I still buy most of my games at import stores or directly from the UK. Why? I don't know.

igl

"The Internet: Because It's Never YOUR Fault."

Come on, let's hear some more. It's the glut of crappy games that gives you a free reign to download whatever you want to make sure you like it, right? I dunno about you, but I didn't go marching into The Dark Knight saying to myself "well, Disaster Movie is coming out and I NEED to make sure I would enjoy this movie". I find it hard to believe you're just some gee-gosh newbie that can't notice a discernable difference in quality between a AAA title and all the "RC Sprint Cars"-sque shovelware... I won't even get started on the subjectiveness of such logic. Or perhaps it's those damn executive fat cats that are screwing us over, and deserve to have the favor returned. Well guess what, go down a couple levels of power and you're no longer dealing with the yacht sailing suits but rather hard working dick and janes just like you and I. Oh, and of course, the crown jewel of piracy excuses: you DEMAND the perfect game. Something tells me you guys aren't sitting around holding out for only 2 or 3 top tier games a year to play.

So, why am I so mad about pirating when it clearly does not affect my bracket of gaming? Well the thing that REALLY pisses me off is how you contribute to the general lack of appreciate in video gaming these days. Nothing frusterates me more than these people that blaze through as many games as possible just so they can add it to another notch in their belt. I'm starting to wonder what the purpose of DLC is the way message boards are flooded with people boasting how they're done with GTA IV after only 9 hours of playtime. I know I'm not going to change anyone's opinions, that's fine. I just wanted to let you know that you guys suck, that's really all there is to it.

eastshore4

@Gravnar: Because you live with your mom and you are 13?

GOD

@Gravnar:

Well, something of yours then.

jello44

@jello44: Jokes on you I don't have a car

Gravnar

Piracy is for sad fat geeks who get a hard on because they have found a site where they can get free games. They feel a bit special then they can get something for free when it should have cost them something.

When they are asked about it they make it out like it's some personal crusade against DRM or copyright.

What a bunch of knobs.

When you purchase a game, you play on it. No one gives a fuck if you have to use a CD key that expires once you use it apart frome people who want to pirate it.

Who the fuck else boasts about how easy it is and how DRM is the cures of us all.

Bunch of losers if you ask me.

Time to get a life and perhaps a job where you can fund your gaming needs instead of ripping off the entire industry.

Sorry...

Hate piracy.

Only knobs do it.

End of rant.

GOD

@lumpi:

That's utter rubbish. No-one is following you with a camera. You're using a fantasy "potential world" to justify what you're doing.

Basically, you'd rather just get it for free. Which is fine. You can deal with that. Everyone likes free stuff.

...but to try and justify the theft as some kind of "act of freedom" is juvenile at best. How about people just rise up against not being allowed to rape people!? All these prison sentences people are getting just for rape!? They still have their sexual organs, I'm not "taking anything".
Everyone has a right to rape!
Tripe.

KamaKase

People will spend money on something they REALLY want sorta like how for every CD I buy I download 9 more...

Murderdolls

@Gravnar:

Excuses, excuses.

I hope someone steals your car "because they can".

jello44

@jello44: No, it is because I have the ability to do so.

I buy things all the time. Expensive things, so I am not cheap.

I do it because it is there to do. There is no other reason but that. I don't care if I get caught.

Gravnar

One easy way to help prevent piracy is through updates/on line play being locked to legitimate copies. Already implemented on the 360 i think this puts a lot of people off hacking their console as the majority of 360 users play online.

ali_g_84uk

@NuZZ: Wow...I thought Bit-torrent was basically one of the only ways of doing it. (No expert, by any means).

If you've got the whole file up on some site, then the site is liable and can be taken down. I've no idea what some of the methods you listed consist of though.

Still, my previous point could still work, even if it only makes pirating harder.

Krondonian

@Arnold Rimmer's...

Yeah very much so, i had a large collection of ps2 titles i downloaded yet ive bought about 40 new titles for my ps3/360 at full price since they came out plus a ton of xbla/psn stuff. Theres no substance to that (suya123's) argument.

I think the main reasons for pirating games are:

-I can get it for free so why pay for anything
-I refuse to pay for mediocre games like nba live/need for speed but would like them to dabble in/for variety
-I refuse to give money to large companies like EA/Microsoft when their owner make far more money than i do
-I can get games early before release in my country
-I can carry a large amount of games on portable storage for my ds/psp.
-A title is not being released in my region

ali_g_84uk

I'm going to add to my list of "why I pirate games" list.

I am also not the richest guy. :(

NuZZ

Because it's free. Every other reason is bullshit, with the exception that the game is so old that it has become almost impossible to find a copy, and even then there are online hubs and other sources.

Thorax

@Gravnar: You speak the truth.

Jon-Claw

@Krondonian:

Thats a problem, because (I know your joking, but Im still going to go there, oh yes I did! No he dident!?) pirated goods are digitally distributed a number of ways. TOPSiTES leak to private trackers, xDCC chans, usenet, HTTP (rapidshare) etc.

There are many many many ways to pirate. Public bittorent is one, and it is not a very good way imo.

NuZZ

@Gravnar:

Because you won't get caught, am I right? Or is it because you are a cheap bastard? Oh, wait, it's both, isn't it?

jello44

For me it has little to do with fairness towards publishers or developers, but everything with alternatives.

How do you stop piracy? Honestly, how do you stop it? The only way to do it is basically monitor and censor the entire P2P grid and per-user traffic, like in some fucked up utopian dictatorship. If you're OK with this you're seriously spoilt with democracy, because it would mean giving up your privacy altogether.

Imagine a little camera following you through the mall, a little chip in your neck recording your every step to prevent shoplifting. The only effective way to battle piracy directly is exactly that, only in a digital version.

If avoiding that means supporting the pirates, I'm more than happy to do it. Just recently German prosecutors and judges decided not to help record companies with their invading anti-piracy complains. It's not just some cheap douches who don't want to pay for their stuff and laugh at poor developer's faces. It's a basic rights issue.

And on top of that, there are no precise statistics so both sides make up dramatized numbers. The reality is surely in between and, while throttling sales, it's certainly not what causes studios to go bankrupt.

Better customer service (like bug-fixes, DLC and MP-services over Steam), softer system requirements, no DRM, those are the kinds of things that can be done and would help.

But it's easier to whine (and yes, the companies are the ones whining the most).

lumpi

I pira