@RYAMATSU: You can also own multiple consoles and not be a raging fanboy.

rotcepsurt

@Bookburner: I read it like you did. Not that difficult. I love the fact I can take off my 360 HDD as well. Can bring my account/songs/saves to my friends place and his 360 becomes my 360.

KaneTaker

@Desertwolf: Money can be a compelling reason for a choice. I know I don't choose to go to work everyday because I like the chair in my office.

kingmanic

@chip5541: "As has been mentioned above the removable storage units for teh PS3 and PC are actually a little easier to remove"

I'm sorry but that is complete bullshit. Pushing a button is easier than removing a case/cover and a bunch of screws.

rotcepsurt

@Ehardergardens: mmmmmm, i dunno about that pc to 360 part. it may or may not be easier, but it definitely ends up buggy. thats kinda the case for all ports tho.

if all ports were well optimized and bugless, the world would be a better place, and i would be much less of a console hater.

as for developers wanted to develop on the consoles b/c its easier, i can understand that. but why can't they just do what crytek is doing with warhead, making their game work on a $600 machine.

k.ong

@Sickofitall: stop hating! we're talking about tech shows.

BlazinNoni

I would assume that since he was speaking this more familiar because we are more familiar line out loud the rythym and tones were lost. While not clear when written, it could make sense when out loud. Play with it kiddies.

Also well done to people only posting about Oblivion and Morrowind. Your numbering has left out the other games in the series (but hey, mistakes are for forgiving) and avoiding the topic at all costs. You guys are magicated!

penty85

@everybest:

He means you can pop it off and put it on any 360.

CCCombobreaker

PS3 hard drive file systems are encrypted. PS3 hard drives can NOT be swapped to other PS3s! The 2nd PS3 will not read the existing data on the hard drive from the 1st PS3.

Rectangle

@jfm3: Plopped was used because, for me atleast, it kinda came out of nowhere after I'd already got the title. I never really commented on the quality of the port, I was just making the statement that there was no exclusitivity deal so it was available for PS3 porting anytime. I know of the PS3's improvements and I wouldn't call it hugely improved but I admit it's superior by design since it was improved rather than just ported.

Llost

@netassassin: ok that may explain that. Never tried (and don't plan to until i upgrade).

Ehardergardens

@winstano:

That's what I was thinking too. Some people, eh?

How about an engine that can randomly create a land as big as Tamriel in Daggerfall then allow user created quests. I'd never need another game again.

convercide

@WatershipDown:

Hey now, when you pay $1500-3000 for a gaming PC, you get to be a little smug...I mean my PC kicks any consoles ass 20 times over.

@nine07:

It's not cause they can't use those systems, it's the Xbox is even easier to remove the drive than any of those. It's just retard easy...like my friends mom easy....

The SmacK

@jfm3: I have to ask -- what made you call the 360 version the "360 sku?" Why didn't you just call it the "360 version" or the "360 game?" Do you think "stock keeping unit" is an easier or perhaps cooler way of saying it? I've been racking my brain for why gamers use that dreadful term, and maybe you can shed some light.

Follow up: did you ever or do you now work at Wal-Mart or some other large retailer? Is this where you picked up "SKU" and decided to insert it into your vocabulary?

DaPress

@Your-Friendly-Neighborhood-Atheist: I didn't know that gun-metal PS3 had a different tray. I thought it was standard in all of them. I guess I learn something everyday.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

You can also pop your HD off and leave it as a stable door stop right next to your HD-DVD player.

RYAMATSU

@Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!: oops. lol. yay=way

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@karasu is my homeboy: Dude...you really taking this yay to serious. chillax. :)
It's all gravy, we understand :)

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@jfm3:
The PS3 version of Oblivion was much better. I agree after playing both thoroughly.

DigitalHero

@GrrSnort: If its the full game, what's stopping them from putting it on a disc? Their reasoning just seems silly.

wicko

@karasu is my homeboy: No you didn't have to explain. What i'm saying is as an explanation of why not to show it on the PS3, its lacking.

Stile

First of all, I don't know how quick it is to pop out/put in the 360 hd. I have a ps3 and it's really easy, but you need a screw driver for one small screw. If the 360 doesn't even need that, then it really is more convenient, even if just slightly. I don't care either way, as long as we get fallout 3, does it matter?

Sickofitall

Different PS3s have different HD trays. My launch 60 gig had a way different tray than my Gun Metal Grey MGS PS3

Your-Friendly-Neighborhood-Atheist

I don't see how they are swapping 360 drives if the game is on a DevKit. The caboose can't be removed.

As for the PS3, the DevKit can swap drives if you have the game running from those drives.

PS3 test/retail kits can actually hot swap drives.

Pocus

Geez, do people really need to overanalyze off the cuff remarks like this?

His "circular logic" is saying "Of course we're more familiar with the xbox because that's the console we've developed for the most." It wasn't that hard to understand.

And the hard drive thing is just a convenience like he said, not THE NUMBER ONE selling point for development.

Is it really that hard to understand human speech?

Bookburner

@Llost: "Plopped" doesn't do justice to the PS3 port. I've played both, and the PS3 version is HUGELY improved over the X360 port (never played the PC, to be fair). The 360 sku cut out significant chunks of animation cycles to save framerates (result: choppy motion from everyone), and draw distances/pop-in are much improved as well. To be fair, there were (6 months?) difference in release date to tinker.

I do believe I read they mostly "plopped" the engine onto the cell's main CPU rather than using SPEs, but the result is very impressive. It's anything but a lazy port. I have faith that the Fallout 3 port, even sans-Microsoft DLC, will keep PS3 owners pleased.

jfm3

I'll say it also. The 360 has a proprietary hard drive config (i'm not positive, but suspect it's more than just the casing, i.e. pin outs and possibly some identifier thingy) So you can only pop it off and pop it onto another 360 easily (unless he's talking dev kits and they are some how different).
The PS3 has a standard 2.5 drive that can be easily swapped(like a pc). I'm not sure why the heck he would say this.
The 360 is probably easier to go to from a PC because it's similar to a PC in it's architecture.

yeah, he must be talking about dev units. Seriously Developers should know better than to say these things in a public forum. I do believe that MS has a very good SDK, and the better relationship with pc devs, but this just seems silly.

Ehardergardens

@mrantimatter:

On the 360 you press a button and HD comes off. You can then put it on to any 360 and it will work.

On the PS3 you need to pry off a cover then unscrew the, uh, screw. Then that Hard drive will only work on a similar PS3. Ones with Back compat and ones with out are not compatible. The system will tell you to format. I learned this the hard way.

Your-Friendly-Neighborhood-Atheist

@Stile: You don't get it. Let's look at a scenario like this to break it down.

Bethesda guy 1 has to do a presentation at Microsoft's conference. He brought the harddrive with him home from work, popped it into his home 360 to make sure it ran fine and was ready for E3 the next day.

The next day, he brings the harddrive to E3. Microsoft has a limitless amount of 360s at E3. He pops the harddrive into the one they're using the for the conference.

So, someone has to supply a 360, but he doesn't. That's the point. Yeah, you still need a 360 to use the hard drive. But tons of 360s are already wherever they're doing a demonstration. I can't believe I had to explain this.

karasu is my homeboy

@ca36gtp: Devkits, I guess. Those allow you to run unsigned code and basically monkey around as much as you like with the code. Those apparently connect to the same port in the Xbox. If it runs on any xbox console or not, I don't know.

If they're devkit HDs, it actually makes quite a bit of sense. If they're the standard off-the-shelf PMITA $180 ones, then I'm as baffled as anyone.

Grive

Quote: "We can just pop the hard-drive off the Xbox and put it on any machine which is an advantage."

As has been mentioned above the removable storage units for teh PS3 and PC are actually a little easier to remove and are smaller which would save them space.

chip5541

@7ucky: Amen to that.

But yea I don't understand what the thing was about it being easy to move the 360's HD...mine is QUITE easy to move, actually...

TuxBobble

They totally dodged the question with the pop-out-the-HDD answer. Pretty clever of them. Can't wait for the game and the exclusive DLC, too.

DaPress

well it looks like MS is throwing a lil bit of cash to em... and they wiggle their tail in delight.

Its ok, its bethseda... :D

LoganForge

@WatershipDown:
Aren't PC owners normally smug anyways? :p

Sonistar

Last I checked my PS3's drive was easily swappable...hell even the drive I use at work pulls right out of the fron of the PC where a removable drive bay is installed. What is it about PS3's easily removale drive and a PC's (even drives inside of a dells are easily swappabled these days) that for whatever reason is just so hard to take with them on the road to a tech show with? This one is mind boggling....And the first time I've heard of a dev justify anything because "Oh we can just pop in a drive and go for it!".

nine07

Popping the PS3 HDD out and reinstalling it initiates a re-format and re-install of the OS. You can however insert an external HDD, flash drive or memory stick media(depending on model). I was under the impression that the 360 HDD was 'married' to the unit it is attached to. ooook.

netassassin

@karasu is my homeboy: I say that because someone still has to bring a unit. What do you really save in that case beside space.

Stile

What a load of crap! This guy MUST have graduated from a university on the West Coast.

Nickatiah

@WatershipDown: Agreed.

AndrewG009

What king of BS excuse is that? Any, I didn't really like Oblivion anyway (morrowing 1.5 IMO.)

globones

I'm sure they have more pleasant times developing for Xbox360 but that HDD excuse must have been the lamest I've ever heard. -_- It must be really hard to bring the whole console over compared to the fact that you have to set up a whole fucking booth.

ara

@jigglypoofs: Fallout 3 is October.

AndrewG009

@Sean Bryant: circular logic FTW!!!not you but what he said.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@ca36gtp: I don't understand how people like you work. Is it like this?

"Shit! A logical story for the 360 not favoring the PS3. Attack, I gotta say something to attack and bring in the fanboy...YEAH WELL HARD DRIVES SUCK ANYWAY IT CORRUPTS LOLOL...yeah, I showed them."

Seriously, just don't comment with your stupid shit.

karasu is my homeboy

@winstano: Nah, i bet he meant elder scrolls iv: oblivion 2. that way no one gets confused with the numbering

talon06

@Sonistar:

You're a smug, superior PC owner and no one likes that.

WatershipDown

But... the hard drives on the 360 dev kits and test kits aren't removable as far as I can see.

However, the PS3 dev kits are certainly far too big to conveniently lug about to shows etc.

kiigan

I believe that the development 360s that they use allow for things like removal and attaching to other things.

rabidkeebler

I just want a release date please.

jigglypoofs

Yeah I really like how the hard drive pops off, I've brought it to my friend's house a few times. Makes sense to use it for shows.

@7ucky: lmao yeah me too.

@Stile: Are you for real? Like they don't have tons of 360s at the shows like E3 that they need to demonstrate?

Why would Bethesda bring a 360 with them to show off Fallout 3 at Microsoft's E3 conference? You don't make any sense.

karasu is my homeboy

@Masterpopo: i thought i was the only one

uppitycracker

One of these days, they're going to "pop" a hard drive into a 360 to do a show, have a problem with connecting to XBL, and get completely embarassed since everything on a 360 hard drive is locked offline when you take it off its original 360.

ca36gtp

I don't care which platform a company develops for initially, as long as it comes to my beloved PC it doesn't bother me one bit.

mva5580

@Desertwolf: Alot of the time they don't have monetary incentive, PS3 for example has not been paying for any 3rd party exclusives for a while which was the reason assassin's creed moved to the 360 (was going to be exclusive if Sony paid them for it) and FFXIII was easy enough for MS to take. I doubt companies pay for every exclusive butithout knowing the deals and contracts they make it's hard to judge. Oblivion for example was said to be a 360 exclusive and then just plopped on PS3 so must have had no exclusitivity deal.

Llost

The harddrive comes off almost instantly, just press the release.

With thumbdrives you have to copy files around.

Boozerz

@7ucky:

That's what I was thinking. I had to read it back a few times to make sure I didn't skip back a sentence.

Paradyme

That hard drive excuse is kinda lame. You'd still have to bring the 360 with you to plug it into.

Stile

That statement is something special. Cleverly injecting logical fallacies into a non-argument is genius!

Seriously though, how is it obvious that they're familiar with the xbox because they're familiar with the xbox?

Sean Bryant

Does this mean PC/360 architecture is leading development? I thought we already learned that lesson.

WhitePoop

@wicko: For early build versions of the game it's likely that the entire game is running off the hard drive, not just save files.

Helioz

@wicko: Seriously? You want them to put 9 gigs of info on an SD card? They can load their whole game ,uncompressed, to the debug 360 hard drive and take it to shows. How is that not convenient to a DEVELOPER?

GrrSnort

@everybest: Yeah, that's kind of confusing. I assume they mean dev units, but then why can't they do that with a PS3? Is there something inherent in the configuration of the dev box that prohibits that?

Sweet mystery of life at last I've found thee.

WhitePoop

that was...an odd explanation.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

If it's so easy to develop on 360 why are their games more expensive than PC games?

BillyTheRatKing

"Obviously we are more familiar with the Xbox because we are familiar..."

...

PoorPensive

Seeing as how you can easily swap drives on the PS3 and PC as well, his argument is pretty pointless.

damncrackmonkey

@Madgame: You mean Elder Scrolls V?

winstano

Popping out the hard-drive isn't possible with the PS3 or PC? I thought it was, but I'm not exactly tech-savvy so... Kinda felt like he was making it up as he went though, especially with the "we are more familiar with the Xbox because we are familiar" line. That just felt awkward. Hopefully a case of poorly chosen words rather than lies.

Shadowmist

@Madgame: it would be "Elder Scrolls V"

SAGA

Interesting, I for one didnt know that you could just carry your hard drive about like that, I assumed that the tech demo would be locked to the Xbox, what do I know eh? :)

I'll still be picking this up for PC, I decided to sell my Xbox 360 since I have an awesome gaming PC that'll play 99 percent of the 360 games I have or want to play, at a better resolution (1080p) and no lag (mass effect) , with free content (mass effect) and free Online as opposed to the gold subscription on the 360.
It'll also play exactly like the 360 with my wireless controller, so I simply dont see the need to have a 360 anymore!

Sonistar

Good to know that someone in the world found a positive side to the obscenely priced removable hard drives.

DiscipleofJamzy

@everybest: Neither did I. It is pretty cool sounding.

---

I think Bethesda release an ES game next, then Fallout IV or whatever they'll call it--like how Microsoft changes up Gears and Halo releases. Keep everybody happy and make tons of money doing it.

cervantes240

I don't get it. Can't you just get an external harddrive for something like the ps3 and just move that around.

mikeevd

@7ucky: I think that should be read with emphasis, like this: "because we are more familiar" - meaning they are more familiar because, well, they just plain are more familiar.

tybeet

Couldn't you just, pop in an SD card and pop it out? Pop in a USB key and pop it out? Both of which are much smaller than an HD? I mean, I realize its more convenient, but you don't have to bring an entire pc or ps3.

wicko

ah, can't you swap ps3 hard drives pretty easily as well?

Just unscrew, remove the tray, and pop it in the new ps3, harddrive and all.

mrantimatter

@everybest: It's a really interesting point, even more interesting that it's MOBILITY above all things that sways the opinion of a developer. Strange, you would think the actual development process and all that kind of nitty-gritty would hold more sway.

tybeet

@everybest:

yes, being able to pop off my hard drive and put it on my toaster makes life much, much easier.

Masterpopo

Sometimes i actually wonder if the companies themselves actually chooses to make exclusives for xbox or pc or ps3, or if microsoft/sony are just throwing money in their laps.. Guess we'll never know.

Desertwolf

Oblivion 2 please

Madgame

It's an answer that will prevent fan boy flame wars. Or at least I hope it will. But who am I kidding.

KaneBaker

"Obviously we are more familiar with the Xbox because we are familiar..."

Huhwah?

7ucky

We can just pop the hard-drive off the Xbox and put it on any machine which is an advantage.

That's kind of cool. I didn't know that.

everybest

"Obviously we are more familiar with the Xbox because we are familiar..."

Translation: we are lazy and cheap.

So what if you can pop off a 20GB proprietary HD. You still need a 360 (dev model?)

SigmundTheSeaMonster

gas@Alexander_the_Badger:
That extra minute is still what it is..an extra minute of time. Hence why the use of a 360 HDD.

But surely he must have more devious intentions? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar my friends.

zombiefrank82

Hey, at least someone's getting some use out of that feature.

Wolfers

Guys, they are just throwing a kiss ass bone to the people who paid them a LOT of money for some Exclusive content, that is all, and I still dont get how if its on the 360 AND the PC how it is considered exclusive, sounds more like being paid to be ExcluDING!

Hand_O_Death

It's really just too bad this game is not Fallout at all.

Oban

Note to self: Swap HDD before Bethesda does...

Talryyn

@Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!: Probably because they've made it quite clear that they prefer their Xbox 360 product over the PS3. It has nothing to do with "could".

AngryEddy

No, even though you can take it out of the PS3, each hard drive is digitally signed to each PS3 so if you try to put it in another PS3, you will not be able to.mrantimatter:

craigyhaitch_94

Does Pete realize if you swap the 360 hard drive on to another console you have to be signed into Live? :)

Agnostic

I didn´t know that, i thought the HD were locked to a certain console, but i guess i was wrong, anyway it´s a lame excuse, he should´ve said "i brought the 360 one because i like white over black, and the ps3 is black you know?" and it would´ve been a way better argument...

Daisuash

@RYAMATSU: The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. I see we're not there yet. Maybe one day, maybe one day.

rotcepsurt

@cervantes240:
Never really use that feature. Guess developers do, but more often than not I just don't care enough about saved games to bring it over to friends' houses. Still good to have.

About his Fallout 4 remarks, I'm glad he's not saying they're going to make one as of yet because I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Fallout 3 is looking a bit iffy. I'm getting worried that they've taken a really deep, old school game and sanded off several good layers like the raunchy humor et alius things. Then they lay down some ol' Oblivion primer and slapped on some FPS paint for good measure. Not to mention some nice gray. I don'r know though, haven't played it so I shouldn't talk and the setting could be interesting
Call me caustiously pessimistic.

M-26-7

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Businesses are there to make money, end of story. Teams like insomniac, naught dog, konami, etc. have received more help in the past from Sony, hence, the better titles. The 360 is easier to code for than the PS3, I find it baffling that people still argue this point with the number of developers that have come out and expressed difficulty for programming for the PS3.

rotcepsurt

@RYAMATSU: I am close to picking one up for my PC (already have a blu-ray drive via PS3)! At the local Fry's, they have 4 or 5 grocery carts full of HD-DVD movies for $11.00. All titles, not just the crappers.

homernoy

"We can just pop the hard-drive off the Xbox and put it on any machine which is an advantage. Taking the PC or PS3 to these things just isn't convenient."

Really? I must have been dreaming when I spent barely a minute replacing my PS3 hard drive last week. Come on now, Mr Hines. Why do you really prefer the Xbox 360?

Alexander_the_Badger

@PepsiPerfect: "So he prefers developing on the 360 because it's easier to show tech demos off at shows? Awesome."

No, he prefers DEMOING on the 360 because it is easier for him.

I'm sure there are other, better reasons why they prefer developing on the 360.

Rectangle

@RYAMATSU: HAAAAA-YA! Good one, buddy. You got all of us 360 owners right in the feelings. Now we're sad.

DaPress

@The SmacK:

Not really. Like I said, look at any enterprise dell system these days...they have drive bays installed that allow for hot swapping at any time without have to ever open the system.

I admit, it takes a few more seconds to get to that PS3 drive inside, and if we are talking dev kits, I doubt Sony has the dev kit PS3's locked down the way retail versions are when it comes to swapping drives. Unless Bethesda is seriously that excited over hot swapping drives anywhere it makes no sense for the comment they made. Yeah even retail Xbox 360 drives can be swapped easy but goodluck running half of the DLC on that drive if you aren't connected to Xbox Live.

nine07

Also, Bethesda is a pretty big company. Why don't they just have both the 360 and PS3 version of the game on the floor of these trade shows like other companies do. I can understand if they only show one during presentation, i.e, E3. But during the show where the vendors, journalists and whatnot can try out the game and give thier comprehensive previews/impressions, I find it hard they couldn't have both systems running.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

The 360 is still easier to develop for than the PS3. but what's funny is that, how lazy developers are. If you know you got difficult work ahead of you, why not get that out of the way first. Also, in this case, if you develop on the PS3 first, then things get even easier on the port to 360. So there's even reward in doing the hardwork first. As a PS3 owner I won't be buying this game. I wanted to purchase it, but hell, we don't get any DLC, just because (imo) PS3 development is difficult. Damn, they did complete Oblivion, so then they must know what they're doing.

Thomaticus

Way to show your support for the dedicated fanbase that not only drove the Fallout series to such success, but Bethsoft as well. WAY TO GO!

Atheist Jew

@RYAMATSU:

was that really necessary?

cyhborg

@rotcepsurt: Not a fanboy. Just saying I'm familiar with contracting new purposes for my HD-DVD player simply because I'm familiar.

RYAMATSU

I'm torn. I don't know if I want the PC or 360 version. The PC version will probably have free user-created mods, but the 360 version is guaranteed to run on my 360, when I don't think the PC version has had the recommended specs released yet. That and if I should get this or Fable 2.

Talleh

Our friends, the Glorious Masters of Microsoft, have given us the tools to easily pop hard drives.

lumpi

@karasu is my homeboy: I got you. I just got the sense you were annoyed and frustrated and whatnot. I was just to trying to prevent (although it's fruitless) a "my console versus you console" type of thing.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

So, we're going to get more Fallout? Sweet. Now make us some more Oblivion/Elder Scrolls already, Bethesda!

Salen

@Stile: Well, Microsoft probably reached out and said we'd love to have you show off FO3 at our conference before Sony did.

And it's easier to work on pefecting one build and then carrying that build in a 5 inch hard drive.

karasu is my homeboy

@kingmanic: Now THAT'S an awesome example. I have to agree.

@rotcepsurt: yeah, I find that statement to be a bit suspect too. I understand the idea of wanting an easier development environment but where were all of these developers when the PS2 debuted? It was hard as hell to develop for and yet people didn't find reasons or excuses as to why their projects couldn't be great. This constant bitching and moaning by the development community is annoying.

If other companies can make great games on PS3, ports, exclusives, PSN games or otherwise, then why can't other supposedly high profile developers? Stop crying like bitches and man up. Get it done. I know my art director isn't trying to hear me crying about "it's too hard...It's soooooo hard"...learn and get it done.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!: I'm not worked up or anything, I'm typing it calm, I just don't understand what he didn't understand. So I attempted to break it down. I guess that's the internet and it's removal of emotion for ya.

As for the other comment I made, it's annoying when people make bullshit posts when they try to keep Kotaku commenters of quality.

karasu is my homeboy

So he prefers developing on the 360 because it's easier to show tech demos off at shows? Awesome.

Anyway, I'm pretty excited about Fallout 3 - I'm a huge fan of the first two, and I've been keeping a close eye on it's development. I'll be purchasing it for the PC, however. Sorry, Todd.

PepsiPerfect

@netassassin:

Not married at all, I have 2 360s from differant regions and I swap HDDs all the time in order to avoid a lot of random issues that come from using the same gamertag across 2 consoles. Its actually really convienent. I havnt used an external on my PS3 yet, but I would imagine it might be pretty much the same in terms of portability if games could be read off of it.

RuneX21

Halo rules

mahi

@lilaliendog:
You mean like how Sony threw money to keep games like Haze, WarDevil, and UT3 (timed) exclusives?

beem

@Day Man:
I agree, some things really are just taken out of context. In turn leads to discussion(mainly argument)because, like most people, they do not listen but just wait for thier turn to speak.

zombiefrank82

@Desertwolf: that is already confirmed that MS throws out money ala ff13 going to 360 and sony doesn't ala losing exclusive games like ff13.

lilaliendog

@SAGA: Whoops...right
@winstano: Yes..my bad on the grammatically incorrect titleology

Madgame

They're familiar because they're familiar... redundancy sucks.

BlkMagik07

"Obviously we are more familiar with the Xbox because we are familiar". That is one of the most meaningless phrases I have ever read!

Swift_

AHHH!!! This spells teh dooms for PS3!!!1

sits

Gawker Media loves fanboys -- especially when they're arguing the merits of removing one console's hard drive over the other.

Day Man

well, all i wish for, is the ps3 version to be technically superior (just like oblivion).

Gutek

@AngryEddy: yes that's evident that they prefer the 360. All i'm saying is that they are a business and since 'Fallout 3' is a multi-platform game, why not show the progess for all the platforms. Or if not, atleast say the progress.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

After reading all of the comments, it's pretty obvious who the raging fanboys are, lol.

You can't argue facts - the 360 HDD IS more convienent to move than the PS3/PC. You just press a button and it comes off (no screwing).

And, he's just saying the easier mobility of the 360 HDD is just PART of the reason he prefers the 360, not THE reason.

YesILikeGuys

Just admit Microsoft paid you extra to make "exclusive" DLC. Youre not fooling anyone with your paragraphs...

I dont mean to flamebait, nor to be banned for that matter, just voicing out an opinion.

doesntlikedede

@mrantimatter: But you have to unscrew. All fanboyism aside, you just push one small button the on 360 and the HDD pops off. No need to get tools.

Quicksilver4648

Wow, some of you people are insane. Finding a screw driver and unscrewing some screws is EASIER then pressing a button? We're not all mega nerds with huge glasses. Some of us are normal people, and we all don't carry around screw drivers and pocket protectors.

Fact of the matter is the Xbox 360 has an easily removable hard drive. He's not saying the 360 is better then the PS3, just more CONVENIENT. The fanboyism is reaching critical levels. It's just a fucking piece of hardware.

Daiden

Sigh, arm-chair developers...

(1) PS3 hard drives ARE TIED to their consoles once formatted; you CANNOT use your drive on a friend's system.

(2) PS3 development kits are HUGE; 2U server racks are NOT fun things to carry around.

(3) You can turn ANY 360 into a development kit by attaching the dev-box to the top. There is NO need to sign into Live when using a dev-box.

Tenkei

@lilaliendog: Dude Sony doesn't have money to throw at devs and they use to throw money around all the time when they were rolling in it... not to mention bold face lieing to people before they launched the PS2.

Cueil

Perhaps they show it on the 360 because it's further along then the PS3 version and they come up with the HDD argument to kind of stop the flame wars from erupting... but it failed obviously

Cueil

@netassassin: Sad if it's true. I thought there was little difference myself, but a reformat? Blegh.

formina

Fallout 1 & 2 please (XBLA?). I haven't had a chance to finish them on PC and I don't know that I have something capable of running them right now.

sqlrob

I thought it'd be even easier to put it on a DVD disc and carry that around, rather than a hard drive.

But hey, what do I know?

Strange breed these devs.

finelicker

@Daiden: how does having a screwdriver handy make you a nerd? by that same logic, are carpenters nerds? or people with swiss army knives that contain screwdrivers?

bigman88zz

@Gutek: Willing to wait the extra year again?

waywardchemist

Lame. I wanna hear about the PS3 build, and you can also swap HD with PS3 so what type of BS is this?

boots555

my hard drive rack and usb hard drives make my hard drives more portable than my xbox 360 hard drive and my laptop is more portable than either. Also, the PC looks bettet and has way better controls than my xbox360. If bestheada ends up focusing fallout on console and not giving PC the proper time than they can go to hell for fucking things up.

TheGreySpectre

Funny how every Kotakuite knows more about how devs should do their 'thing' than the devs themselves.

Poor guy, all he did was saying Its easier to bring a 360 HDD than a PS3 HDD and all hell breaks lose!
No wonder there's war in this world.

KEELr

Sweet Jesus fucking tapdancing Christ!

Some of you people are completely fucking RIDICULOUS. You'll take the smallest, most trivial matter and turn it into a personal flamewar. Why?

Better yet, who gives a fuck? Why are some of you so invested emotionally into something like this? Then there are the ones making snide comments and then backing off saying, "Oh, just my opinion" YOU'RE NOT HELPING THE DAMN TOPIC, YOU'RE TROLLING. Please quit fishing for fanboy hate.

Personally I don't understand this ungodly need to defend a piece of plastic and metal. I love all three consoles and I'm a couple days away from owning all three. What's so goddamn difficult about liking all three? Or just...not hating the other two? I mean, ok, the PS3 is technologically superiod, congratu-mafucking-lations. The 360 has more games and is a bit more accessible whoop-dee-fucking-doo. The Wii is the most accessible and fun at parties, oh joy. Seriously, what gives?

And like I said, now you're all making a stink over the fact that a dev. said "Oh, it's just easier to do X than do Y in order to do Z." It's like half of you fucking lost it! First of all, how the fuck do YOU know? Are you a dev? How do you know they all (consoles and their respective hard drives) work the same way? Second, defending the other consoles by saying, "OMG it's because M$ is giving you lots of money!"

...

WELL OF COURSE THEY'RE GETTING MONEY, YOU IDIOTS! What the hell are all these companies gonna care more about? What you think or more money to spend on, oh, I dunno...LIVING?

So, please, pretty please, for the love of ANYTHING...quit the fanboyism, or if anything...take it elsewhere and let the smart commenters (NOT saying I am one, but a lot of people here know what the fuck they're talking about) be heard over the noise, wilya?

/seething hatred rant

Back on topic: If what Tenki says is correct, it would explain why they can just pop it off and take it anywhere without being signed into Live, 'cause as experience has taught me, your silly ass DOES need to be signed in or else forget using about 50% of all content on your hard drive...

Meuacan

@Madgame:

Oblivion 2 please

Do you want The Elder Scrolls IV: Part 2 or The Elder Scrolls V? :)

doubtful

@Tenkei:

Yeah, I tried your #1 with 2 drives associated to the same console and was able to use them both, but not on another console.

As for #3, how are you removing and attaching the caboose/dev-box?

Pocus

@rotcepsurt: what is there to believe? So explain the PS3 versions of Oblivion...DMC4...Burnout Paradise...Ninja Gaiden Sigma...GTA4...UT3.

My point is (and I swear it was in the original post) developers need to suck it up and learn. I don't understand your logic as far as the "business" comment. What the hell is that supposed to mean? PS3 games don't make money so develop for 360? tell that to EA who just announced Ps3 games made far more money for them than 360 games.

I don't see your point. Your comment doesn't make sense to me. PS3 is different and harder to develop for. No shit. It's not a PC, it's not built as a stripped down PC. So of course 360 is going to be easier to develop for if a developer ports over a PC game to the 360. But as I said, I didn't see developers crying about the hard-as-hell to develop for pS2 and that console still has some of the titles ever conceived.

No excuses, too many developers are lame.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

umm im pretty sure its just as easy to remove the ps3 hardrive and what purpose would it have anywayz

themule

@Day Man: "Gawker Media loves fanboys -- especially when they're arguing the merits of removing one console's hard drive over the other."

really ? did the top heads at Gawker make u say that statement? internet blogging has changed.

@Meuacan: i apologize if the people here at kotaku are pissing you off, but last time i checked,i don't rememeber the staff bitching about long debates on trivial issues. this is the place to do that. we're debating the validity of his claims. in fact we challenge everything on here. deal with it bro.

zanzibarlegend

With the PC they would never be sure how well their demo would run. The last thing they want is their demo screwing up and trowing errors in front of millions of people. On the xbox they know the game will run the same on any system.

zgreenwell

@Alexander_the_Badger:

There's more BS in his comment than just swapping PS3 drives being easy.

Look:

"We can just pop the hard-drive off the Xbox and put it on any machine which is an advantage. Taking the PC or PS3 to these things just isn't convenient."

The PC? Isn't convenient? If the PC isn't convenient then you can build one that's convenient. PC is too unwieldy? They make carrying harnesses for them. There are also small form-factor enclosures that you can fit in a small duffel bag.

Swapping hard drives is complicated on a PC?

Bullshit. USB. eSATA. Sliding HD trays. Get a fucking catalogue.

Koztah

Well, others have said similar, but...

Can you do the drive swap with a non-dev 360?
Can you NOT do it with a dev PS3?
Is he just BSing because he prefers 360? (That's ok too I guess...)

Maybe sliding a hard drive into a slot is too technical compared to snapping it on top? I don't know, I'm reaching here...

fuchikoma

@zanzibarlegend: I'm just venting. There's been countless posts like mine and a lot far better than mine, so I'm pretty apathetic about it, lol. Don't get me wrong, I mean every bit of it, but it's completely fruitless and futile, so meh.

I'm starting to get used to it, actually. O_o

Meuacan

@Sean Bryant: hello fellow philosophy 11 student

if_deez

@fuchikoma: Please read my earlier comment to answer your first two questions. You'll have to look deep within your heart for an answer to your third question.

Tenkei

@Pocus: To be fair, the dev-box requires a bit of fiddling from both ends to get the thing off. At least, these ones do.

Tenkei

@zanzibarlegend:
Well, you do have to take into account that the more hits a writer can generate the chances are he will be paid better. So that may explain why, at times, we recieve thought provoking articles, followed up by articles that inherently are sensational, or are just meant to provoke trivial arguments. As this post has proven, and if you have been a kotakuite for a while you may have noticed, like many before. I am a huge advocate for the site but it is also business.

zombiefrank82

@zombiefrank82: o most definitely, i am with you. which is why to a degree i just deal with it. everyone's got to make a livin. i have no right to knock this site's hustle. some of the stuff here may be debate inducing, but they bring the goods here. and thats all that matters to me at the end of the day.

zanzibarlegend

@Tenkei:

Funny, I found pics of the PS3 dev kits (and debug test kits) which..Ironically looked like a PS3; with what looked like early PS3 dev kits not being any bigger than a mid tower PC on it's side. I also found pics of a 360 dev kit, and that attachments makes the thing look no bigger or smaller than a PS3 dev kit.

Dunno what you saw that required server racks Tenkei but it wasn't a PS3 dev kit but that is besides the point on this discussion. Like I said, we're talking dev kits, and I seriously doubt Sony's dev kits digitally write to the drive and locks them to that dev kit when those drives are more than likely passing through hundreds of hands during development of a game on them. Anyway, this whole discussion in general over what Bethesda said is moot and no different than Criterion's unrequitted love for PS3 development. I'm sure they will/have said the same thing if they could.

nine07

@Meuacan: thats the spirit! now let's all hold hands and walk around the campfire! j/k

i hear you though.

zanzibarlegend

@Daiden "Some of us are normal people, and we all don't carry around screw drivers and pocket protectors." Waa? You mean that's a screw driver in your pocket?? :-(

@bigman88zz: "how does having a screwdriver handy make you a nerd?" Hey there, big boy. I've got two screws with your name on them.

dixon0396

We can just pop the hard-drive off the Xbox and put it on any machine which is an advantage. Taking the PC or PS3 to these things just isn't convenient.

Well, I wasn't aware the HDD's were standard on all models of the 360 (no offense). And last I checked, every PS3 was essentially the same except for the fact that thye have different sized HDD's.

Amazon_Chris

@nine07: You must have seen just the debug test kits, or Sony has started limited distribution of smaller dev-kits. I use my PS3 dev-kit as a foot rest because there isn't any room on my desk.

Tenkei

@Tenkei:
Oh thanks. That kind of info is invaluable in a place like this. I skimmed for an answer but missed it.
So does that mean that either the PS3 drives are tied on devkits as well? They look ejectable... bulletproof drive sled? 3.5" disk?

That 360 snap-on dev mode thing is awesome though. Strangely I've found it the harder of the two to find info on.

@nine07:
[ps3.ign.com]

fuchikoma

@Centy
So you're saying if I am retarded but don't have a dog or if I have dog but am not retarded I can't buy one?

crazycatguy

I think I'm missing something big here, that should be obvious(?).

Why do they need to remove the hard drive at all?

Is the game stored on the hard drive I guess?

But then why not just set up a booth for it or whatev?

Pardon my ignorance...

icegoat

@fuchikoma: The PS3 dev-kit runs test code straight from a networked PC, so removing its hard drive isn't something I normally think about. If you want to test your game on a regular PS3, you have to burn a disc.

The 360 can run test code only from the hard drive, so it's slower to start a debugging session because of the network transfer, but I guess that it's nice to be able to use the hard drive on another machine if I needed to do so.

Tenkei

@ Daiden
Pocket protector? I want one!!

crazycatguy

What a crock of shit why don't they just come out and say it they think that all PC gamers will just theive their game and never look back. Where as every retard and his dog with a 360 will rush out and buy it.

I seriously thought Bethesda were above that but it seems they are just as much whores to MS as most other devs these days thank fuck Bioware, Valve and Blizzard still have our back otherwise the PC would be the domain of monthly Sims expansions and whatever crap Popcap have out this week.

Centy

@Centy: Jesus Christ, calm down, guy. You might blow a gasket. Hisdon is right, the topic has nothing to do with piracy. Look, PC gaming ain't dead, so chill. If anything all companies don't have any loyalties to any one platform, so off yon soapbox, please.

@gencid: Wuh? Have you not been reading the comments from Tenki and others about the 360 devkit and the PS3 devkit? Just sayin'...

Meuacan

Its already been said but yeah... its not that hard to pop out the PS3 HD and put it in another PS3. Way to RTFM Bethesda.

Murrytmds

Nice try Bethesda, but I am not totally buying this. It's more likely because the X360 version at this point in time looks and plays better than the PS3 one. That, and MS paying for exclusive content and showing off their console.

gencid

@Centy:

A) What? This article had nothing to do in the slightest with piracy, its about how they bring 360's to all conventions to showcase the game instead of other consoles or PC's.
B) And you think developers don't deserve every right to be worried about piracy on the pc market? From your comparison it makes it sound like you yourself would be one of those pirates, and just don't want to purchase the game because that'd somehow be feeding a bunch of "whores to MS."

Hisdon

@Madgame: Oblivion 2? Have you ever played an Elder Scrolls game before?

It'll obviously be Elders Scrolls V.

TK423

So they can bring the Oblivion DLC to PS3 later, but for Fallout it's just "screw you, PS3 owners!" ??????

[sarcasm]Thanks, Bethesda, I really appreciate your candor.[/sarcasm]

blacksheepdj

@Tenkei:
Gotcha. So Hines' comment makes perfect sense...

If you don't mind answering more questions, I was just wondering this morning... How low-level is typical development on each system? It sounds like PS3 has some comprehensive 3rd party solutions with C/C++ as a primary language, but 360 info was all over the place from "It's called 'XDK 360' (no other info)" to saying everyone pro or not uses XNA with C#, though I'd imagine there would be benefits to getting closer to the metal on a homogenous platform like that...

Is that at least close?

fuchikoma

"I'll still be picking this up for PC, I decided to sell my Xbox 360 since I have an awesome gaming PC that'll play 99 percent of the 360 games I have or want to play, at a better resolution (1080p) and no lag (mass effect) , with free content (mass effect) and free Online as opposed to the gold subscription on the 360."
@Sonistar:
Umm, if you're hoping that the Fallout 3 DLC would be free, wouldn't it make more sense to look at the Oblivion expansions? Y'know, considering that Bethesda's publishing FO3, and not EA.

But during the show where the vendors, journalists and whatnot can try out the game and give thier comprehensive previews/impressions, I find it hard they couldn't have both systems running.
@Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!:
Are you implying that game development is easy, or that you have no idea how game development works?

kftgr

Why is the computer better to play open world games made by Bethesda? Quite simply, Mods.

Syndicated Terence

@zanzibarlegend:
LOL I like that "i have no right to knock this site's hustle" perfectly stated mang. They are indeed VERY good hustlers.

zombiefrank82

my hard drive rack and usb hard drives make my hard drives more portable than my xbox 360 hard drive and my laptop is more portable than either. Also, the PC looks bettet and has way better controls than my xbox360. If bestheada ends up focusing fallout on console and not giving PC the proper time than they can go to hell for fucking things up.
@TheGreySpectre:

And you can't fucking read. The answer is in the first quote.

The PC? Isn't convenient? If the PC isn't convenient then you can build one that's convenient. PC is too unwieldy? They make carrying harnesses for them. There are also small form-factor enclosures that you can fit in a small duffel bag.
Swapping hard drives is complicated on a PC?
@Koztah:
You don't get the point, do you? It's not about swapping drives in and out of your computer, it's about swapping your drive into ANOTHER computer. You build the fanciest rig to swap drives in/out all day with ease, but if you take your drive on the road and the computer they have there doesn't take your fancy sliding rail it's of no use.

You even quoted the key part of his statement, yet still failed to comprehend: "We can just pop the hard-drive off the Xbox and put it on any machine which is an advantage. Taking the PC or PS3 to these things just isn't convenient."

kftgr

Seeing as you can just pop the hard drive out of the PS3 as well I'm failing to see the issue.

branwheatkillah

@fuchikoma: If you've ever programmed with DirectX and C++ in Visual Studio, then you'll feel very comfortable with 360 programming. XNA is very high-level and is very useful for rapid prototyping, but opportunities for low-level optimisation are fairly limited.

I can't speak for other developers, but I tend not to optimise on the 360 until I need to because the libraries, tools, and documentation are fairly comprehensive. On the other hand, you will not achieve the same technical quality on the PS3 if you do not approach development with a low-level optimisation mindset from the start.

Tenkei

@WatershipDown: PC versions of games own the shit out of console versions, and if Fallout 3 is as moddable as Oblivion is, the statement is infinitely more true. Oblivion for the consoles sucks balls compared to the PC with the insane amount of mods available for PC people.

Rajolae

I love how people attack Bethesda just because they prefer the 360 when it comes to showing off a game in development.

PC drives "could" be just as easy to swap, but the problems LISTED IN THE ARTICLE prevent them from being able to do so. System specs and other variables involved with PCs make it difficult to predict what type of system they will be plugging their drive into. Even the cage enclosure for the swappable drive could be different from PC to PC, so they would have to take the system apart, take the HDD out of it's enclosure, and install it inside the PC... Then Imagine the 10 to 20 minutes they would need just to get the thing booted up, and tested to make sure it will run on the PC...

PS3... While the specs aren't any different from one PS3 to another, the Hard Drive isn't exactly "easy" to swap... It might not be the most difficult, but it does take several steps. The reason they aren't using the PS3 is likely because development on that platform is more difficult, and maybe they aren't as far along as they are with the 360...

swapping the drive on the 360 takes 3 steps. 1- press button. 2- Lift old drive off. 3- Put new drive on... you can't get much easier than that.

Nside

Is exclusively DLC really going to be that big of a deal? microsoft acted like it was such a monumental win for them with GTA, but I'm the only person I know who hasn't long since finished the game and flipped it. And I have it on PS3.

Until proven otherwise it just looks like another back-of-the-box feature that's more for scoring points than making sales.

And of course Bethesda is more familiar with xbox beause they're more familiar with xbox. They've done more work, for longer on xbox and the development platform is basically the same as for a windows PC. Another reason not to support microsoft's (thankfully unsuccessful so far) attempt to own the console video game business. Developers born and raised on microsoft platforms don't adjust well when working with anything outside the windows bubble.

stfufools

Oh and if Fallout is as fucked up as Oblivion was on the PC because of it being dumbed down for the console, Im gonna be pissed. PC versions should be made independently of console versions as to not dumb it down for PC people, both BioShock and Oblivion got hurt because of this.

Rajolae

BTW: here's the steps for swapping a PS3 HDD:

[www.gamepro.com]

1. turn off the PS3, and unplug everything. Flip it over and pull off the plastic flap labeled, "HDD."

2. Using a Husky Precision screwdriver, remove the blue screw. This will detach the hard drive from the PS3.

3. Using the metal paperclip tab, slide and then pull the hard drive out from the PS3.

4. Next, you need to remove the metal shield from the actual hard drive. Remove the two screws that rest on the same side of the hard drive as the blue screw. Be careful! These screws are very easy to strip.

5. When the screws are removed, the hard drive should easily detach from the metal shield. Now you're done with the stock PS3 hard drive.

6. Now, you work backwards. Position the new hard drive against the shield in the same orientation as the previous hard drive and screw it back on.

7. Using the metal paperclip tab, insert the new hard drive back into the PS3. You'll have to gently push or shove it into place to snap it back into the SATA socket.

8. Screw the blue screw back into the PS3.

9. Put the plastic "HDD" tab back on. The hard part is done. Hooray!

....

Doesn't seem quite as easy as:

1. Push Button

2. Lift old drive off

3. Put new drive on

but... eh, maybe it's just me...

Nside