if anything ever gets done in the way of punishing the makers of devices like the R4 (which i just bought so i can use my ds as an mp3 player!) then the video games and movie industries should have the precedent to get rid of those evil dvd-rs and evil burning devices
"the dvd burner! you already know what it does! (no questions will be answered about this product)"

IAO6

They can't stop it,but they can slow it down.

It's sad to see R4's on Amazon.com's best seller list. Something really has to be done. When Marge & Joe Sixpack can pirate with ease, that's bad for all of us.

Fryfat2

What if you already own an R4?

ManlyVGnoob

Pirates, in various forms, have existed for centuries. Do they really think they'll halt it now?

noesmano

These companies must be stupid if they think they will ever stop pirating.

londonlad

LOL. It doesn't matter. People will pirate games in the future. How many websites offering Free download of ROMS had been shut down and yet, they keep coming back with new websites?

squall3031

@KaliKOtt:
Happy B-Day

I see this dragging in the courts for years!!

revscott

@Lyrai:
Never seen one. Pretty sure I would have by now.

Demonbird

Wait, there are sites that make you buy the ROM downloads?

Lyrai

It's ridiculous that they all went up against the R4, instead of including DSTT, CycloDS, M3, Acekard, Edge, SuperCard and EZFlash.

Here's 24 good reasons as to why I own an R4 for my DS.

[www.synthtopia.com]

Having music programs on my DS is a wonderful thing. It's already pretty close to being a KAOSS pad, so it's only natural to want to develop music programs for it.

dead_red_eyes

Give homebrew a chance!

Oh and btw its my Birthday wohooo

KaliKOtt

... I still think the companies are going to lose.

Demonbird

@squall3031: @londonlad:

Absolutely true.

@ManlyVGnoob:

Then keep it out of sight when you walk by Capcom USA.

@Fryfat2:

The DS has so much capability that the stock OS doesn't utilize...with an R4/M3 you can use homebrew to do stuff that the DS can and should have for a long time been advertised as doing: playing mp3s/videos, performing as a general PDA, web browser, playing NDS/GBA backups (despite what Ninty would have you think backups you dump yourself are 100% legal and if you're like me carrying a giant sack of cartridges around sucks.

Are there going to be people who pirate with the R4? Of course; if you don't think so, you're an idiot. However, keep in mind that people will pirate across any medium, not just a DS cartridge with several legitimate uses beyond what it's advertised for ("you know what it does"). The R4/M3 is just terribly convenient, which is both a boon and a bane.

@IAO6:

MP3 player, word! That's what I bought my M3 for last year...love it to death. (although DS speakers are lo-fi and lack bass, it's better than lugging a CD player around)

Also, "We gots to git rid of them thar Video Casette players cause they lets you steal the TV picture and watch it again without paying a bigger cable bill!"

zgrowler2

So why are they suing R4? They don't sell any roms.

y2julio

@Fryfat2: This is the problem.

It's not about stopping piracy. The point is, the R4 - and the others, in fact the DS as a whole, is ridiculously easy to pirate with. Ridiculously, stupidly, idiotically easy. You buy a card readily available on Amazon and that's it. As soon as someone's even been told about it, they can go and do it themselves.

This consortium, instead of launching lawsuits, should get together and design Nintendos next handheld - or at least, its game loading system. Make one that, like big consoles, would require hardware modification to pirate. That alone will stop the vast majority of people doing it.

There is not a sane human on this Earth that wouldn't use a memory card like the R4. You could go to an undiscovered tribe in the Congo, show them a DS, explain what games are, and then explain the R4, and they'd all agree it would be smart to use it. People aren't dumb. They won't pay for things when it's so easy to get them free. It's human nature they're trying to fight here. That they facilitated by designing a system you buy a 10 dollar card for.

Cultivar

Pirates? Did you say PIRATES?! Are they the good kind? (Crecente) or the bad ones? (peg legs, swords, parrots on their shoulder, large rooms filled with DVD recorders)

Just curious (I'm burying my treasure chest full of ET cartridges right now just incase)

Acute Gamer

If you'd ban R4, then DVD recorders should be banned, Xerox machines should be banned, DVD/CD burners should be banned.

DoggySpew

R4 makes me want a DS to get a taste of the DS's various shovel ware at my leisure. Or an MP3 player.

Dexyn

If you only support legit uses of the R4, keep in mind that legal carts exist - like the DS Media Player or the DSX that don't have much (if any) support for retail roms.

The best way to stop piracy is to hold people accountable. Laws need to be changed, and enforcement needs to be easier. Software companies listening in on torrents and sending out letters to ISP's is a good start, they just need more authority.

Policing the internet is more than possible - it's already happened. Take child pornography for example, governments around the world have done a great job keeping it confined to the dark corners of the internet. The same needs to be done for illegal games, music and movies.

Fryfat2

@zgrowler2: yeah those ds speakers don't make for the baddest boom box, ive got mine plugged into my car stereo ;)

overall i don't think theres anything that the r4 does wrong, the official website promotes the device for all of its awesome (and 100% legal) applications such as homebrew support. i doubt nintendo is losing considerable cash when compared to much more popular devices such as dvd-r burners or ipods. the only difference is that the r4 cartridge fits a specific device rather than a generic.

i cant wait to see the huge judicial double-standard we pull when record companies try to sue the makers of the completely un-stigmatized ipod.

IAO6

Knowing that piracy is going to happen regardless, they'd probably be smarter to try and figure out a way to profit off of the whole concept of putting all of your games onto a card, preferably from digital distribution. As someone else put it, carrying around cartridges is absolutely annoying.

DimensionWarped

@VakeroRokero: So why don't they sue the DVD makers? after all, they are enabling piracy not the R4. Now if R4 was doing that, then I would agree with the lawsuit against them.

y2julio

Most of the time when you buy a card they offer 100 games for free inside some dvds. This is the problem.

VakeroRokero

this is pretty dumb. anyone remember the downfall of the music torrent site oink? the authorities kept claiming that users had to pay to download, when in fact the only money exchanged was in the form of voluntary donations.

nathew

@Emiat: So why aren't record companies suing CD-R/RW makers, or the movie industry suing DVD-R/RW makers?

y2julio

@y2julio: No they aren't, but they are producing the carts needed to play the roms on the DS.

Emiat

@IAO6: The legality of R4 is for the courts to decide, and so far, they've sided with Nintendo and other game developers in Belgium, China, Denmark, France, Hong Kong, Italy, Korea, Netherlands, Spain, UK, and the US.

I don't quite get the iPod analogy, as very few people have the knowledge to make backup copies of DS games they own.

Fryfat2

I heard from my friend's mailman's cousin that certain sites charged monthly fees for access to premium download links, while the slower links were still free. So I'm assuming that's what the "companies that sell downloads" thing is about.

mtsmylie

@Fryfat2: the r4 is a legal cart, a much more diverse and easily configurable one that doesnt preemptively treat its consumers like pirates.
imagine how poed you'd be if the only media your ipod supported was content purchased from itunes music store rather than any of your existing album backups.

IAO6

@IAO6: eh, that's not true. You can just drag and drop the files onto the R4 and play away.

y2julio

@Fryfat2: the team which makes r4 markets their cart to homebrewers and people who want to take advantage of homebrew or back-ups, it's important to note that the r4 doesnt even ship with the ability to play backups without user-modification.

IAO6

@Fryfat2: "So far"? They haven't made any rulings at all pertaining to the R4. On paper, the R4 is 100% legal because it doesn't directly give you any games, just like any mod chip. It runs on the precedent that you should be able to do what you want with a system after you buy it as long as you don't plan to re-sell it. That's been around for years and it's the entire reason mod chips are still around and rarely sought after in courts.

Arlips

@Emiat: but the comparison is the same.

y2julio

@y2julio: Because what they do is up to them, just because a bunch of game companies sue the makers of R4 carts doesn't mean all the other industries have to start lawsuits against the makers of discs.

Emiat

this case doesnt really do much cuz most ppl who have know about the r4 or want it already have one. this is simply the companies sueing to scare future developers of these types of carts from making them anymore.

maraxusofk

@Fryfat2:Some stylish pulling facts out of one's anus there.

UK - [kotaku.com]
Australia - [kotaku.com]
Belgium - ???? Belgium?!

hahnchen

Isn't there more than one brand of these guys out there on the market? Goooood luck!

RyuriTatsujin

@y2julio: the kernel on the official website and on my disc supplies no folder in which to drag and drop your games.
something everyone pro and anti r4 should check out to fuel argument:
www.r4ds.cn

IAO6

R4 allows you to put your own games on there too .. they will lose.

vgfanboy

Honestly, the game companies should lose. Banning the R4 (or whatever it is they want to do...I'm too lazy to read) would be like banning CD-Rs, or DVD-Rs, or blank tapes...

urutapu

I just love that everyone has bought into the notion that the term "Piracy" is a legitimate analogy to the act of copying bits - that's a series of ons and offs folks. The industry should recognize its success at framing the argument and amp up the rhetoric - I suggest "Data Rape", or perhaps "Bit Sodomy". You Sodomists are killing gaming!

Bottom line is, a DS flash cart, of whatever flavor, turns a fun little handheld game gizmo into a semi-powerful portable computer at a ridiculously low cost. The irony is that nobody, especially not Nintendo, seem to have noticed this fact...or care to. More to the point, flash carts make the DS a better DS - do I wanna mess with a bunch of fragile little carts or have one that never leaves the slot? Difficult choice?

As to whether or not this is a legitimate "backup" - if I lose a cart, or it gets damaged, or it just stops working, will Nintendo or Capcom gladly give me a new one?

ValeshniPastruk

@maraxusofk:It does matter. This is law, it's about setting a precedent.

hahnchen

@zgrowler2: Go buy a Games N Music card then. The DLDI patch works for it and it works with like 90% of homebrew. Moonshell 1.71 works just fine on it.

Shabadage

The movie industry tried sewing Sony back in the Betamax days because people were copying movies. The courts ruled that Sony could not be held at fault because once they sold the device they lost control of how the device is used, but more importantly because the device had uses that were not expressly for the circumvention of copyright. So because the R4 has uses that are not for playing copyrighted games, this lawsuit should fail.

[en.wikipedia.org]

It gets complicated because if R4DS ever claims anywhere the product can be used to play commercial games then they ARE liable for inducing infringement. Just as a box containing a CD-R can't say "You can copy games with this!" You know it can, but they can't say it can or it's inducing infringement and therefore illegal.

RStormgull

@y2julio: i thought i had to create a "Games" folder, im unable to test it just in the root directory atm, but it seems like i was misinformed as to the functionality of the games folder now that it seems to be more for organization than enabling features :/

@Beyond-Infinity: there's actually quite a few references to games and the ability to play games and even nds games on the site (just not illegally)
theres nothing on the cart because the firmware is loaded onto a microsd you must purchase separately. the cart is merely a vessel which allows you to read the contents of your microsd card on your nds.

IAO6

They need to offer an alternative before they destroy homebrew. Playing MP3s, watching films on your DS, organisers, and freeware games - homebrew is much more than just piracy. GAH NERD RAGE! :p

Jekht

It seems like the creators of the R4 were very careful not to place anything to do with games on the site and on the cart, the courts will have to notice this because the creators are currently legit.

Beyond-Infinity

@IAO6: Not sure what you are doing but on my M3 DS Simply (made by the same ppl that made the R4.) I just drag it to the root directory of my memory card and drop the games there and it works fine. No need for any special folder.

y2julio

wait, people actually buy roms? excuse me while i laugh myself to death

bigman88zz

@IAO6: Yeah, that's the only reason why I have them in a different folder. To keep them organized.

y2julio

Are they going to sue producers of microsd cards for supplying the other crucial ingredient for this piracy?

Demonbird

@Shabadage:

I've already got an M3 Real which auto-DLDI patches 99% of software; I've no need for a G&M card especially when it lacks removable storage. Thanks for the info though.

zgrowler2

Those comparing the R4/modchips to DVD/CD burners are missing one important point - modchips are not licensed products for the hardware, whereas disc burners for PC's do not require a license from any hardware company.

The problem with piracy, is when it is "so easy an idiot can do it", an idiot does it. Which is why mp3's and ROMs are easily available and everyone knows about it. PSP, PS2 and Wii are very bad for piracy as well, followed closely by Xbox 360. So far, PS3 has been secure, and even if piracy starts up, the cost of Blu-Ray discs will be a deterrant until the price comes down, unless hard drive loading works.

I don't know the solutions to prevent piracy, as the ones invented over the years have all failed, and copyright protection is usually worse for the legal user than the pirates.

Ecks

CycloDS is way better than the R4. It has firmware that you can flash so it's always up to date.

R4 is just the most popular.

Slayer

Goddamnit... Stupid game manufacturers think they're owed money for making crappy games... This is the 21st century, people! The gaming market has evolved and consumers are now going to try out games more and more before buying them.

What say you, law abiding denizen? Rental? What's rental? Is it the legal service through which you can pay a company money to play a damaged game for 24 hours? Well, wake up and smell the coffee: renting is just as bad as stealing. Game creators only get a little money from the initial sale of the game to the rental company. then they get nothing. So when 100 kids have rented a title, the rental company laughs its way to the bank while the game creators wait anxiously for someone to buy their product.

By using the R4 and other such means, we, the consumers, are cutting the real thieves, the rental companies, out of the equation. If we like a game, we can buy it. If a game was pure garbage, it's only natural for those who designed said game to not get any sales. Darwin's theory in execution, ie survival of the fittest: if you can't be bothered to or are incapable of making a good game, then you shouldn't be making games.

Piracy isn't piracy: nothing is ever stolen. Piracy is empowerment: consumers aren't slaves to big corporations anymore. The sooner they accept it, the less money they'll lose in legal fees.

tabion20

This... sucks. I was actually thinking about getting an R4 so I can use Colors, and ironically not for pirating games. Guess I better pick one up before it's too late. :\

DoctorCello

@tabion20: That's sure a lot of rationalization. Why not just admit you're breaking the law and move on?

Fryfat2

@zgrowler2: Uh, the GnM uses MicroSD's. I think you're thinking of the Max Media Dock. Never used one of those so I could be wrong.

Shabadage

@Slayer: The R4 has firmware upgrades too.

y2julio

@ValeshniPastruk: I just love that everyone has bought into the notion that the term "Piracy" is a legitimate analogy to the act of copying bits - that's a series of ons and offs folks.

You fail.

"For electronic and audio-visual media, unauthorized reproduction and distribution is occasionally referred to as piracy (an early reference was made by Alfred Tennyson in the preface to his poem "The Lover's Tale" in 1879 where he mentions that sections of this work "have of late been mercilessly pirated")."

And frankly, if you're arguing that piracy is just distributing information, I'd like you to click here.

Jonn

@DoggySpew: You don't understand the difference between a common use of something and the primary use, do ya?

@tabion20: Yeah, how nice of them to spark La Revolution by getting stuff for free.

What I want you to explain is why pirates should get things for free that they didn't pay for. I can understand not paying for a crap game. What I can't understand is why you think you should get the game anyway.

Jonn

@Jonn: Nice brainwashed article.

m-p{3}

@vgfanboy: Guess what, CDs, DVDs and Blu-Ray too

m-p{3}

Here in China its hard to find original games.
Everybody uses R4 here.
Yesterday I bought a new DS Lite, with R4 and 2GB card for 1280 RMB (120 Eur). The nice ladies from the shop already preloaded my card with tons of games.
Now enjoying "The world ends with you".
Thanks R4, you bring affordable happiness to the Chinese people!

PS: I do buy all my PS3 games original here, as that is the only thing they do sell legit in the shops (also some PSP games)

sander_dutch

@urutapu: Thanks for summing up the pirate perspective in this argument. Comment of the week!

floppylobster

Curse them Ninjas and their lawsuits against our R4s! I challenge them to a game of dodgeball!

Mooglepinoy22

@m-p{3}: It's disagreeing with you. That doesn't make it brainwashed.

Jonn

What everyone forgets about is that all these cartridges use something to bypass RSA Encryption built into the NDS which is illegal under many countries laws such as the UK DMCA where it is illegal to bypass copyright control. So it is even illegal to backup your own originals or make MP3s to use on a MP3 player.

fuzzchopz

@fuzzchopz: This is also true in the United States. Of all the issues I have with the DMCA, this is one thing I think they have right.

RawSteelUT

Why should they sue? How many college students have the funds to continuously buy new DS games? Not Many. I own an R4 myself, and let me tell you it has gotten me through some pretty rough times. Downloading the ROMs for DS is EASY. If the game companies didn't want people to be able to download then why not make it harder for the people making the sites that distribute the ROMs to get their hands on them? It's really the companies, who produce the games, responsibility to make sure that the games they produce are 100% protected from being reproduced in ROM form.

Aliceisded19

@Emiat: Nintendo produced the DS required to play roms on the DS, Nintendo should sue Nintendo too.

Eldrek