Fallout 3 for PC will probably not have trophies either. BUT, there will be mods!!!(hopefully) I'm getting this for both, PS3 and PC. I will be playing on PC and my girlfriend wants PS3 version(so we don't fight over who gets to play next) Anyway, I am really looking forward to this game's release.

GreaterHater

I couldn't care less about the trophies; GIVE ME THAT BLOODY MESS STATUE/FIGURINE!!!

Because everyone who says the Bloody Mess is a waste of an optional trait is wrong. Because I say so.

Nyeh.

jared11889

@Daizaru1:
Well ,pretty much everything in process to release this year unless it's Sony controlled won't have trophies.There will be some exceptions,but the SDKs didn't get out till June,so Sony is not really requiring it on games almost completed.09 should be different though.

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

I ha absolutely no idea what the fuss is with "trophies" and "achievements". Why would people want online bragging rights? There's nothing to prove, and they are a pointless waste of time on the devs part (although not much code).

It just makes no sense. Since Microsoft came into the video game business, the fanboy war has started, we have digital content delivery (some good some pointless), and a wide range of silly things that the video game business would be better off without. I'm not blaming this on Microsoft, but their "eliminate all competition" idea has gone waaay too far. Buying out exclusives, and the like. They are trying to make it so theirs is the only console worth buying, but it eliminates the diversity that is sought after in video games.

I'm no fanboy, my console preference lies not in what I think is superior, or allegiance to a name, but refusal to let MS invade more of my life with their "take no prisoners" methodology.

/rant.

I will probably get flamed, but so be it.

ViceOfFire

@drifter13: I agree. It was either the PS3 or PC version for me, but now I am pretty much going with the PC version. I need some new games to see what my new system can do anyway. Also, I really like the mouse and keyboard for RPG's, like you said.

homernoy

I want that Vault Boy figurine!

BulletzBill

Trophies are nice to have but it doesn't make or break a system for me. The only reason I'd repeat a game is to unlock hidden content. MGS4 still doesn't have trophies but I continue to replay it for the hidden face camos, Altair costume, and other nice gadgets I missed the first time around.

flashtut

I honestly don't expect any games that are currently in development to have trophy support. I mean, didn't Sony just add Trophy support a few months back? I doubt they went to every developer with a game in development to persuade them to implement trophy support. These devs are working their asses off to finish the game itself on schedule, let alone adding something as gimmicky as Trophies.

Achievements has been there from the start, so that's actually factored into the 360 development time. The same can't be said for the PS3 development. And it's not just some easy switch of making every achievement a trophy. The systems are different.

So, this is hardly a surprise to me. Eventually, say a year down the line, I'd expect every game to have trophy support. That is, if the whole thing takes off. Sony may need to coerce developers to take it seriously, but I believe it'll happen.

I have zero interest in obtaining trophies. Perhaps if there are actual physical prizes to be won from getting them in the future, then I'll try and get them. I doubt they'll ever be a determining factor on whether I buy a game or not, or what platform I buy it for. Trophy/Achievement whores are sad breed of gamers to me.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@sixonedoesitall:

Why are you commenting on something that you have no idea on how it works? You're only making a bigger ass out of yourself by doing so.

Sparx

oops my bad, "wait...what!?!?" was meant for sixonedoseitall.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@sixonedoesitall: Yeah maybe you should actually check out the trophy system before you claim problems with it.

Astrofox

Though I'm not overly concerned with trophies this is basically a gross statement of laziness. There's no excuse for a game not to incorporate trophies before they come out.

I think I just went from purchase to rental for that very fact.

Daizaru1

@Grive:

So trophies are an extra for completing a certain % of a achievements in a ps3 game?

sixonedoesitall

@sixonedoesitall:
Yes,you click on your friends and it shows their trophy level.

Um,you create the art for the achievements in the first place.There isn't a difference.It won't matter as titles released in 09 will be required.

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

@Swift_: I know. Since I haven't seen any of the PS3 version yet.

@enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC): no need to add to that since you pretty much said what I was going to say.

@Nicevillin: wait..what!?!

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@sixonedoesitall: ???

There is a number attached to trophies... you can see how many trophies you have on yours and your friends stats card, along with their level number which is far more MMO like than an arbitrary gamer score number.

Astrofox

lol. oh well not trophies = means pirating this game is a MUST! yahoo!

animexplorer

@themissing: i find it a little absurd to be able to claim in such a black and white fashion what is or is not a gamer. granted i can see your point, but hey man, everyone finds their own joy in games, whether its one sense of accomplishment or another. to reinforce a label of being a "gamer", and likewise to try and classify someone as something else entirely due to a persons particular sense of enjoyment seems a little... whats the word... elitist? pathetic? one of those, i'm sure, take your pick.

on a different note, while this does suck for the people that actually care, this game seems to have enough going for it so that it shouldnt be a big deal for anyone. maybe its just the fallout fanboyism in me clouding my judgement, but yeah.

uppitycracker

no trophies at launch, eh?

at a later date its gonna be even MORE of a challenge to address what kind of achievements people earn, as most trophy-worthy quests/ requirements would have been completed a long time ago.

survey says: WEEAAKK

F22

@themissing: For those with both 360 and PS3, it can be a determining factor in which version to get. Obviously it means little in exclusive titles, but this isn't exclusive.

formina

@sixonedoesitall: you have no idea what your talking about.

Nicevillin

@sixonedoesitall: Well, Uncharted basically does this. So would Resistance, but on another numbering scale. Heck, uncharted even has 1000 trophyscore.

Anyway, the PS3 does link it all, by giving you an "experience" bar. You don't get a specific number, but you get a bar that fills and eventually raises your level. It's basically a RPGized gamerscore.

Grive

Wow that sucks. I won't have a PS3 till next year so I ain't buying Fallout 3 for that platform. It is however bad news that there isn't a lot of support for trophies so far.

Refused

@XeroKool:

so all they've done is copy xbl with the additional burden of making developers create trophies for each achievement?

Does the PS3 have an equivalent of a gamercard where you can quickly view a player's profile?

A point system is easy for developers to tap into without much effort...

Can a game give out 'trophy' points without actually awarding a trophy?

sixonedoesitall

I seriously doubt that anyone who likes RPGs is playing them for trophies/achievements.

Garo

If this is how Sony plans to enhance re-playability (late trophy implementation and a forced run to get them) I don't like it.

Nth

TheNthDegree

@themissing:

I completely agree.

LittleBigPlaneteer

I'm probably still going to go with PC because I want the MOD support that will hopefully surface after launch, and also I enjoyed the mouse and keyboard combo more when playing Oblivion. As far as trophies go, we won't be seeing many games this year or or early next with em probably because those games with almost finished dev cycles aren't going to waste more time getting the trophies in now.

drifter13

@sixonedoesitall: Trophy system has more of an RPG element to it. The more trophies you have, the higher level you are. Have you ever seen the thing?

XeroKool

This game is overrated anyway.

They'll never do it and suggesting that they may do it in the future is another slap in the face.

INTVGene

@d20Dark1:
Because it is a better platform? Oh and yes I have a 360 as well. /sarcasm

DigitalHero

I'll be picking this one up for the PC. Can we say Mod Community.

TheAngryHeretic

if you seriously make a decision about buying a game based on "trophies" or "achievements", you are not a gamer. i love how every game story now is followed by "DOES IT HAVE TROPHIES?!!". If you need a digital pat on the back to enjoy a game, you're fucked.

themissing

@sixonedoesitall:

I bet you don't even have a PS3.

mentalboy11

@heretrix:
What the hell does Beth not wanting to worry with Trophies have to do with Sony? It's not Sony's fault.Fallout 3 has been in production for years.

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

@sixonedoesitall: or, alternatively, we aren't all whores for e-penis and enjoy trophies and achievements for the sheer satisfaction of doing some random shit in a game and getting a noise for it.

They are fun. Nothing more.

ZombieRace

@Tuggie: Why is the PS3 'supposed to get ahead'?

d20Dark1

Not mandatory so I don't blame them. Why go through the extra effort to please your fans.

XeroKool

I wouldn't nail Pete or Bethesda about not loving the trophy system- the list of games that has them and is going to have them is pretty small without Bethesda adding to the 'no' list. It's not surprising to me in the slightest.

d20Dark1

@sixonedoesitall: You don't have a PS3 do you?

Morpork

Wow, that is disappointing. How is the PS3 supposed to get ahead if devlopers won't fully embrace all aspects of the system?

Tuggie

If they would follow Criterion's example regarding a game on the PS3,it would be golden.Hell,I bought 2 copies of Burnout.
I'm getting Fallout,but not sure what platform.

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

Wow, Bethesda sure are a lazy bunch of sods.

GrandfatherParadox

I don't understand the trophy system...

If trophies aren't linked, if you don't get a 'trophy count' that serves as the equivalent of the gamerscore, then I don't see how this system is going to function.

Why not give out 5 points for easy trophies, and 50 points for the hardest trophies for each game?

It's the MMO persistent nature of achievement points that hooks gamers, i'm not saying that giving out trophies is a waste of time, i'm simply say that there needs to be a numerical score assigned to the player based upon how many trophies they have so that it's quick and easy to parade to the public what gamers have... 'accomplished' in game.

You could have a thousand trophies and no one would know but you... which would defeat the purpose.

sixonedoesitall

Why'd Sony even bother with trophies? Or Custom soundtracks? Jeez, why does every new feature implementation on PSN have to be rolled out half-assed?

heretrix

I'm not one to care for "trophies" or "Achievements." I don't even go for half of them in games.

Eville1 says SKUse me a sec.

@KurtangleTN: Or patch them, then with a later patch re-bug the game >_>

(AKA, The Cure Vampire Quest.)

bertfallen

Well I'll wait for the patch then, maybe it will fix one of the hundreds of quest ending bugs at launch. Or knowing what they did with Oblivion.. just leave em in.

KurtangleTN

I'm glad to pay for automatic xbox live implement.

TheTimeisback

That's a bummer, but I can't wait for this game!

DugDawg

wow,....even with this, i still cant make up my mind on which system i should get this for...

Technogamer1992

Hey, first recognition by Bethesda that this version even exists! It's a start.

Swift_

@Mike Fahey: Perfect picture. The Xbox Pipboy shooting the ps3 Pip boy in the face and then spatting at it.

Schoolimangooli's backpack turns into a ham sandwich!

It was a relatively accepted excuse early on about developers not wanting to program for the PS3 because it was new tech and they were lazy. Well I'm sorry but the training wheel are off now boys. Developers have had enough time by now to at least know enough about the system and to make their games on par with other versions. Being lazy won't fly anymore.

It may never happen but I'm waiting for the day when MS creates a programming challenge and all the developers fall over each other to tackle it. Then we can know who the sincere developers are and who's just in it for the money

Sparx

People need to realize that when a product is near the end of its developmentn cycle, lots of features get cut from the game to get it out of the door. This is just the nature of the beast when it comes to game development. Bonus/Added value features such as trophies were probably cut so the team could spend more time on polishing the game and fixing critical crash bugs.

amorphis

This is why I am getting the game for 360, let's be honest the PS3 version is gonna be the quick dirty port, these guys made this game for 360.

WPack911

@sixonedoesitall: Not it's not reskinned.Trophies are pretty hard on most games.Hell,the best I have is 48%.

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

@VladMalice: How can you say this when they've got that whole "Wii360" Fall Update coming?

TRT-X

@Teamwork Takedown: Yeah I like trophies for that very idea. I can go back and remember how much bullshit I had to go through to beat uncharted on crushing and laugh at what a loser I'm lol.

Schoolimangooli's backpack turns into a ham sandwich!

@sixonedoesitall: actually without knowing how many trophies one has you can see their level. higher the level, you know that person has alot of trophies. hope that helps.

zanzibarlegend

implementing trophies seems to be one hell of a job... meh...

Deenight

Why do companies do this? it's like shooting themselves in the foot. Not just because it doesn't support trophies right now. thats no big deal. My biggest issue is with the exclusive DLC.

its like.. "Alright, we're putting this out on both consoles, but if you don't buy it for this console, then you're not going to be able to get the full experience. so you might as well get it for this console."

At least thats the way I see it. It just seems like Bethesda is being almost forced to put out the PS3 version, and that if they had it their way, they would just scrap the idea. It's like watching a kid being forced to sit at the dinner table till they finish. They just kinda sit there, playing with the food until its ice cold, and they get the all clear to just "go to bed". *sigh*

0rin

@XeroKool:

Sounds like the Trophy system is just a reskinned version of XBL achievements where actually created a trophy to earn is optional.

You gain levels instead of a bigger gamerscore.

You gain a bronze trophy instead of 100 points.

You gain a silver trophy instead of 300 points.

Sounds like they reskinned microsoft's system even though it functions the exact same way, except that the burden is on the developer to create a trophy render for their game.

sixonedoesitall

achievements are only a small bonus. but it makes no sense whatsoever for Beth to not have Trophies included. Saying they'll have them as DLC at a later date? after everyone and their mom has beaten the game twice? way to embrace the PS3 Beth!

ruba-dub-dub

what a figgin' disappointment.

I'm still gonna buy the game, but seriously "t wasn't something we were able to incorporate into the game for launch."

It's not like you are a bunch of buddies programming in a garage.

As I said, I love Bethesda, but I'm truly disappointed...

taduman

A shame, but not that big of a deal. Still getting it for my PS3. My Xbox is just a Microsoft machine for the time it still remains in my entertainment cabinet.

Nisori

Microsoft plans for the long term on the software side. All these Xbox 360 elements will most likely be returning in the next xbox and in the company's products going forworks for a lot longer than 10 years.

Conversly, Sony plans for the long term on the hardware side. This is great for the consumer since they don't have to buy hardware as often but that gives you situations where people start clamoring for features and you implement them halfway in, leaving developpers in a lurch because updating an SDK halfway through a project is never an appealing situation, especially with a system that has proven harder to program for.

At the end of the day, IMO, you're always better off when a company has a long term software vision, at least developpers know what to expect and can plan accordingly.

Rask

I think this is why Microsoft is doing so well this generation. They had everything right from the start and all of their ideas and concepts are going full force and affect EVERY game made on their console while everybody else plays catch-up.

VladMalice

@sixonedoesitall: IGN has a three page article detailing how it works if you're interested. [ps3.ign.com] And please stop knocking stuff until you've tried it. You're just making yourself look like a fanboy.

XeroKool

@sixonedoesitall: No trophies are achievements... there are many bronze, a few silver and very few gold trophies in each game. If you collect all trophies in a game you are awarded a platinum trophy.

Trophies go towards you PSN ID level like an RPG. The better the trophy (gold etc) the more of the level bar you fill. You can compare trophies between friends, see their tallies etc all on their PSN ID card in your friends list.

Basically it's a slightly better version of achievements.

Astrofox

@ViceOfFire:

Give it time, maybe if they stay on this track MS will be sued again for creating a monopoly.

Sparx

oh and also...@jared11889:

that's an edible cake...not statue/figurine...but still i want it too.

GreaterHater

How many games for the PS3 actually have trophy support? Isn't it like 5, and that's including DLC titles, right?

I personally love achievements for 360 games, I can care less about the points or the "epeen" which so many people like to call it. I enjoy them because they are a constant log of what I have done while playing my video games. I can go back and view what I was doing throughout my gaming "career."

They also serve as "bookmarks" for gaming, I can see what I have left to do and can compare to friends to see how far or behind I am in the game to them.

I know there are "achievement whores" out there, but i'm one of the gamers who understands the main core of achievements. It's the enjoyment of actually doing the achievement, it makes people play their games longer than expected. And in that case it makes people get their full $60 worth.

Teamwork Takedown

@taduman: I don't know you can agree it's going to be a quick and dirty port. Granted Bethesda hasn't shown a lick of the PS3 version; however, because Bethesda hasn't shown anything regarding the platform (not a crumb...bollocks!!! I know 360 is their preferred platform but c'mon damnit), we can't infer it's going to be a quick and dirty port.

And besides, Bethesda made Oblivion IV on the PS3 and that was a fine port. This isn't EA...or atleast EA 2006/2007

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@Sparx: "Then we can know who the sincere developers are and who's just in it for the money"

We already know the answer to that question. They are all in it for the money. These software companies are not in this for love, and the developers are not volunteers doing this for the sheer enjoyment it brings to their heart.

Besides all of that, I really think that the Trophy system is new enough that there will still be games coming out that don't impliment them since they didn't exist when the game began developement. Over time, we will see virtually all PS3 games with Trophys. My opinion anyway.

homernoy

The lack of Trophy support is Sony's fault. Sony can't expect developers to implement new features at the last second. It seems like Sony's plan for this generation is to copy MS, but release everything 3 years after MS does. They've even copied the whole "nothing but shooters" theme to the point where all of the JRPG's are now on the 360 rather than the PS3.

But PS3 owners should be much more worried about the fact that Bethesda designed their game around the 360 and has exclusive DLC for the 360. That basically means that even with Trophies the PS3 version of Fallout would be the inferior version.

AkaMagi

Bethesda, much like Valve, could publicly take a dump on the PS3 and I would still love them.

Thorax

Was never excited for this game. Another reason not to buy it.

GamingNinja

Oh well no big loss. I see them as a (tiny) bonus when I buy a game not a determining factor. I'm actually kind of glad they aren't in there just to piss off the trophy fan boys. (Who are pissing me off bitching about them in almost every ps3 forum)

greeble

@WPack911: I hate your comment. Makes me angry... but it's true. ò_Ó

taduman

@enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC):

It's Sony's fault because they decided to implement a feature that isn't fully supported by people that develop software on their system. That's why it's half-assed. Why bother if it isn't going to be done properly?
Why not wait until more games are available that use the feature before you roll it out? Firmware 2.41 has been out for a bit and the best they could do is 4 or 5 games?
Why not wait until HOME came out? It isn't that important of a feature that you would risk making it look shitty by releasing it in such a crappy half-hearted way.

heretrix

@Teamwork Takedown: That's really the only thing I envied that Microsoft had. I like to here the sound when I get the trophy.

@NecronomiconUK: Oh sorry dude thanks for correcting me, no I wont sound like an idiot lol.

Schoolimangooli's backpack turns into a ham sandwich!

@Schoolimangooli
They are Vault Boys, not PIPboys. PIPBoy is the electronic organiser

NecronomiconUK

@Schoolimangooli

lol, but, the thing is you don't need to go for all trophies/achievements. I certainly don't. I go for the most entertaining ones or the ones that automatically unlock of course. If you don't want to play through a game on the hardest difficulty, then don't, you certaintly should subject yourself to it for a little e-reward.

Teamwork Takedown

Once again Sony's lack of planning bites their platform in the ass. If they'd actually put a bit more thought into getting the certification requirements and standards for trophys ready then more developers would have been able to set it up a long time ago. I anticipate a whole world of pain of here and there support for Home when that finally arrives. 1st party Sony games will be fine because they are privvy to all the information ahead of 3rd parties.

Trophys and all this tracking information should have been in since day 1.

NecronomiconUK

@themissing: and yes, i'm pathetic and an elitist. oh my!

themissing

That's pretty lame. It's not like I won't still be picking the game up, but trophies would have been nice. I can understand not having the time since the game will be released soon and really, trophies were implemented just recently. That said, I would hope to see trophies with most games released in 2009+.

Đipic

@AkaMagi: Oh noes, they sure are worried now. No trophies on PS3 Fallout 3 so PS3 is teh doomed!

FP_slomo788

@uppitycracker: and again, if you enjoy actually PLAYING games, then none of these things should matter. it's the essence of the game. trophies are not a contextual part of the story or the design, it's a tacked on thing after the fact.

themissing

@inphi: Seriously? can someone please explain to me how Trophy support is a deal breaker? For PS3 owners nonetheless?

I'm buying it for 360 but it's certainly not for the *gasp* Achievements.

FP_slomo788

How hard is it to attach trophy to a system that already has some kind of achievement\trophy system? Is it that they can't keep track of their trophy's? This to me is normally where you draw the line and say, "You know, I think we may have designed this wrong." I'd actually like to know what makes it harder to add trophy support for the ps3, from a developers standpoint..

Because, I've been programming for a long time and have been recently working with XNA. And a job like this seems like it could be done in 20 minutes or so...

NewSpecies

Ooo. Another reason not to buy this game. Yay!

inphi

@DNAgent:OH LAWDY IS THAT SOME BUTTHURT I SMELL?

@heretrix:Because unlike Live, it wasn't ready at launch.

Foxstar Sixtail

I'm pretty sure that Bethesda has gone on record and said that the ps3 version would be a little better. Not having trophy support does suck a little, for me they add replay value to a game that I've beaten. I've had Warhawk for about a year, and the recent trophy patch got me back into playing it again.

Kholar

ps3 gets mirror's edge DLC

360 gets fallout 3 DLC, GTA4 DLC, L4D

fair? well life's not fair.

MysteriousStranger

I won't be playing the game at all. 360 has exclusive DLC so it's even more of a reason for me not to play it. Besides, this game ruined the series just like Shadowrun did. Another thing is that this game comes out around the same time as LittleBigPlanet so I would be way too busy with that to even touch this game anyways.

DNAgent

@AkaMagi: so the reverse is the same for "nothing but JRPG" theme on the 360.
Also, you know nothing of the DLC and the fact the game was designed on the 360 doesn't really hold much weight anymore since multi-platform games these days have acheived parity (atleast most of them). As for the aforementioned DLC, I guess the GTA4 DLC makes the PS3 version inferior.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

Hadn't planned on getting it anyway, this only reaffirms the decision.

Morne

mornelithe

@AkaMagi: I dont get that, why get angry at a fanboy only to respond as a fanboy and then when asked, say you aint a fanboy.

TotaleeAwesome

@AkaMagi: Afgan Hash! answers your question. you must be on that Pineapple Express.

GTA4 ran a little better on the PS3. research it since you're so itching to show me data where the Force Unleashed is better on the 360. The game hasn't even been released yet and you're being spoon fed with stuff that may or maynot be true. As for the JRPG business. It's true, as of right "now" and relative to the 360, JRPGs are a bit barren. However, RPG's are coming out. I could name a few or a lot but we all know how much "the list" is kindly embraced.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

Everybody relax. Picture yourself sitting comfortably on a blanket next to a babbling brook. Om.

It's not that they're lazy, it's just that the game is hopefully nearing completion, the trophy API was released not so long ago, and they don't want to potentially break everything this late in the game by adding them now.

I'm sure there are far more important gameplay features they're busy fixing as we speak.

Keep plugging away Bethesda. You have my money already.

Yonderboy

@Omnimon: I would do it simply because I was dared to. I know how the final dev days are I deal with a lot of it myself but if they were able to do it for one system but not another? come on seriously most people are not going to start their game over to get trophies because the update comes later

lilaliendog

@Amsterdaam: His original comment, in no manner, was a question. He was a moron.

Omnimon

I dont really see why people are so against trophys/achievements. I personally love them, not because I care about others seeing my card or even the points. Rather, it lets me gain more playtime out of a game that I would normally shelf within a few days. Perfect example is DMC4, a game that I didnt hate, but certainly didnt like. I kept goin back just to beat levels to get achievements though becuase seeing the fact that I beat the level on a seperate medium was nice. In the end you can then go to xbox.com and look at a nice clean list of what you can do and what you have done. It does no harm at all and doesnt breed "the filth of the world" or some of the other things people seem to think they are.

I like the idea of trophys, but I dont like the level system it involves as it reminds me of lost planets online system(and many others). I just cant get into the leveling system they use, but the trophys themselves are nice. Its kind of sad that Bethseda isnt going to put htem into the game as it doesnt seem like it would be that hard to implement. Then again, im not a programmer who knows.I know that if I do get the game thbough, it will be on the 360 for 2 reasons, achievements being one of them.(The other being future DLC)

RuneX21

@AkaMagi: I actually much preferred the graphics in the PS3 demo in comparison to the graphics in the 360 demo. *shrug* I also prefer Madden gfx on the PS3 to the 360. Haven't tried out GTAIV on the 360 yet.

Omnimon

@robinandtami: You're absolutely right. It has nothing to do with Sony implementing it later, it's just that they don't force the devs (well the third-party ones at least) to apply them. You can have 1000 features but if only 10 are implemented thoroughly the system practically has only 10 features... However, Sony did get a lot of bad press for not allowing 2D games on the PS1. I know it's a bit of a stretch but I guess devs screamed so loud about this then that they just said fuck it...

FP_slomo788

@Amsterdaam: correction: People that DON'T OWN PS3's don't know much about it.

Amsterdaam

@Omnimon: Why are you calling sixone a moron? He expressly stated that he doesn't understand the system, leading me to believe his post was more of a question than anything. Someone answered it, let it go.

People that down have PS3's don't know much about it.

Amsterdaam

@robinandtami: I like how the idea of 'handling it properly' is requiring with an iron fist that studios add something completely irrelevant to game content, to a game.

Sony is making it a requirement in 2009, and they probably should have held onto the trophy system until then, but the idea of growing the list of 'requirements for release on platform X' is growing is not condusive to getting games produced less expensively. Braid, anyone?

Omnimon

@MysteriousStranger: lol, in reality though does anyone give a shit about DLC, really, anyone? I just dont understand the allure of having to pay for something which, in the last console gen, would have been implemented in the release edition anyway. Like when I was playing MGO and they say "Great news guys we can charge you for an extra avatar and new maps delivered to you in a clusterf**k of a release!!!"

TotaleeAwesome

Jun581...

WTF are you smoking? Seriously, that must be some good stuff to make you so stupid as to even imply that the 360 lacks shooters, or racers, or pretty much any genre.

But fact is, the PS3 is a barren wasteland if you want a JRPG.

And sorry to burst your PS3 lovin bubble, but few multiplatform games have achieved parity on both systems. The majority of games still run in higher resolutions on the 360, have AA/AF on the 360 while the PS3 lacks it, have higher frame rates on the 360, or simply run at smoother frame rates on the 360.

If you need examples I can point you to some recent Star Wars: Force Unleased screenshots that clearly show the PS3 version is suffering.

And yes, the GTA4 360 exclusive DLC does make the PS3 version inferior. Of course it was already running at a lower resolution and without AA compared to the 360 version, even without the DLC, so it was inferior to begin with.

AkaMagi

@enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC): Probably because if trophies and in-game soundtracks had been on the system from the beginning..... and probably because if Sony had set some kind of minimum standards like "if you want to release a game on our platform, it must support at least these minimum features."

That's probably why he is blaming Sony for Bethesda not choosing to implement trophies. If Sony had handled it properly; Bethesda would not have a choice.

robinandtami

@lilaliendog: I dare you to look any developer in the final weeks of development square in the eye and call them lazy. If they haven't collapsed on top of you in exhaustion, then you're probably dead.

Omnimon

@homernoy: I really don't think DLC for PC for a Bethesda game is a question but what do I know? Gaming has seen stranger things...

FP_slomo788

This, plus 360 DLC, equals buying the 360 version. I NEEDZ DEM POINTS.

TheMurderer

@TotaleeAwesome: No, they have a release date they need to hit and they don't have the development cycles to be adding in something that was tossed over the fence 3/4 of the way through production. Sony didn't make it a requirement, it never made the project plan, they will hit their release date.

It had nothing to do with their thoughts or opinions on the trophy system.

Omnimon

@FP_slomo788: Yeah, I don't see how not having Trophies would have any effect on someone that has a PS3 (only). If I wasn't so big into PC gaming, it would be an automatic purchase on the PS3. I still might buy it or rent it still. Trophies have nothing to do with it.

It's more in the hope the PC version will get the DLC, and all the other advantages (my opinion) that makes it a PC purchase for me. It seems many new PC games come with Achievements anyway.

homernoy

damn sixonedoesitall is gettin rimmed. This isn't a burden on the developer at all in fact it would be very simple im sure and it isn't exactly the same though is similar, player reaches x event or x score = bronze trophy badabing done. Player does specific scripted event/task = gold trophy bazing done. Bethesda is just being lazy asses about it.

lilaliendog

@Đipic: Yeah, Sony pretty much predicted this. Games close to completion might not have Trophy support, but later games should. As for older games, it depends on the developer really.

FP_slomo788

@VladMalice: Except they're not doing so well, PS3 is just doing that bad and Wii is doing that good. All in all though PS3 trophy system was an all expenses paid trip of fail, arent there like 5 games its actually used in. Kinda dont blame Bethseda, probably just thought the implementation of the system was pointless. Who am I to talk though, I dont give two shits about trophy collection and last Bethseda game I played, Oblivion, was absolutely f**king terrible.

TotaleeAwesome

@sixonedoesitall: You sir, are a moron.

@heretrix: Well, Sony didn't want to play the MS card and put it into its requirements as an immediate necessity, knowing that would delay the launch of games that devs have been working on for some time. With that being said, I agree that they should have have rolled it out in 2009, at which time it will be a necessity for games being released.

At this point in time, trophies have very little significance to the e-peen horders that care about them, and even less (read: none) to those that are not e-peen horders.

Omnimon

I was just talking to a friend about all the great games coming out later this year and how fallout would probably be one I picked up early next year used for a bit cheaper since other picks like rock band 2, little big planet, and killzone 2 are higher on my list. This just solidified my decision not to purchase on day 1. Thanks fallout team!

sex-target

June581

"Runs better" is purly a subjective term. I put in GTA4 to show my friend who has the PS3 version and the first words out of his mouth was "It looks so much clearer." Over the next 2 hours of playing he never once said "But it runs better on my system."

As for what will come in the future, who cares? It's almost 2 years since the PS3 launch, can't you come up with something better than the lame "just wait" excuse? Just wait for JRPG's, just wait for Home, just wait for Gran Turismo, just wait, just wait, just wait.

Wait too much longer and the next-gen will start without Sony being part of it.

AkaMagi

@TotaleeAwesome: oops...wrong person.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@robinandtami: I don't know. I saw both versions side by side (I brought my PS3 to my cousin's house... :( I don't have an HD TV) and they looked the same. There were some pop-ups on the 360 but they came few and far in between. They both looked great.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@robinandtami: You own both versions?

FP_slomo788

@TotaleeAwesome: right... /rolls eyes/

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@Omnimon: I guess that must truly be subjective, because GTAIV.. TO ME... definitely looked better on my 360 than my PS3.

robinandtami

The data consists of: my 360, my PS3, the downloaded demos, and my eyes. I'm not system-biased, but when it comes to gfx, everything I've played on both systems in the past several months has looked better on the PS3. *shrug*

Omnimon

I guess achievements and trophies are priorities to some people.

Agnostic

@lilaliendog: One system and not another is the key - completely different dev cycles, different APIs to write to. At this point they're (hopefully) well into QA. If you start writing the trophies in now, even once you complete it and implement it, you have to essentially begin Final QA all over again. This isn't an option.

Omnimon

DLC or not, just seems like the 360 version is definately the way to go with this one.

Bii-Nii-Wii-Nii

@enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC): The problem is that the game has been in a playable state for several months. Don't you get that?

Omnimon

@AkaMagi: I don't believe screenshots are proof of anything, and you can argue all you want over them. I have played the game on both consoles and I'm comfortable with which console I will buy the game on.

Why don't you just give it a shot, pick up a PS3 on the way home, buy two copie of a recent multi-plat that you haven't played before, and objectively analyze the evidence put before you.

I like my 360, I have spent many more hours on it than my PS3, but facts are facts and no JPN-hosted screenshots that I have basically no information about will change the opinion I came to by playing both demos.

Omnimon

@AkaMagi: I'm not sure which one you were implying was supposed to look better...but, looking at those screenshots, I think the PS3 version looks like it has slightly better anti-aliasing.

Sandvich

@robinandtami:
I'll explain it.Now whatever your bias is,that's up to you. You don't go to a developer at the end of a production cycle or close to it and demand that they implement your feature(well you shouldn't at least).The SDK's went out beginning of June and I have no idea when Beth even got theirs but it wasn't so long ago I imagine.
Sony took the time on the features so you have to give some room with your developers.Sorry,but if Beth wanted to they could have put trophies in.The game has been a playable state for several months.

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

@SnakesSolids: Oh yea I remember that article. I'm still hoping they tie the trophy system to prizes akin to getting something for free of the PSN store. That would be nice.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@AkaMagi: "Just wait" isn't really an excuse in Sonyland, is the problem you're facing. The PS3 has presented several difficult development hurdles that are still keeping developers from getting the most out of the hardware. On the top of that list is best-utilizing the Cell processor, and it seems that most devs have been getting better. Remember that Sony does its best to stick to 10-year console cycles.

I do appreciate the 360 for the fact that the hardware is well-known, development suggestions are well-documented, and developers can utilize a good portion of the hardware potential from the get-go. There's just not as much upside to it, and from what I've seen and played lately, PS3 devs are beginning to eclipse 360 capabilities.

Omnimon

@AkaMagi: so you took 2 pictures, both of which has no indication which system(s) if refers to. In addition, you provide no link to establish the argument that console A looks better than console B. Okay cool, you got me there.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@Sparx:
Haha yeah that would be nice. I miss the N64 and PSX days, and everything before Xbox, only because gaming was peaceful. Then the internet got big, then MS got big... Hell, we could be playing completely different games :P

But yeah Nintendo and Sony were healthy competition for each other. MS is just tryna buy them both out.

ViceOfFire

@LittleBigPlaneteer:
Well, lack of trophy support may not matter too much now, but according to this article, Sony seems to have a lot more planned for that trophy score. We might not see it for 5 years knowing Sony though.

SnakesSolids

@AkaMagi: listen. Valkryie profile came out the PS3 in Japan. Yea, It hsn't been released in the US...yet, but it will and I'm sure there are JRPG's released currently on the PS3. Granted the 360 has more JRPG currently, but when did the current crop of the JRPGs started coming out?? hmmm...about 2 years after the 360 was released.

c'mon man, You don't have to like the PS3 and that's fine and dandy but to say all the games still looks better on one console over the other is getting ridiculous. They have both achieved parity from most of the good developers...and EA. They both are more than likely going to look the same based on Bethesda experience with both systems, regardless which one was the lead system. If you want achievements, fine. Like Rick James said "Enjoy Yourself". If you want to buy the game based on the DLC, that's great too but on launch day, they more than likely (based on history...at least with Bethesda) will be equal.

sorry for the double post (if it happens).

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@TheTimeisback: Just wait 'till '09 hits. Trophies will be mandatory.

I don't really care about Fallout 3 though, it plays JUST like Oblivion with some tweaks, and I'm one of the few who hated Oblivion.

mfwahwah

Oh, and just so you know what to expect in the near future....

[yoda.dip.jp]

[yoda.dip.jp]

Pretty clear which one has the sharper textures, better reflections, and better color saturation.

AkaMagi

DNAgent: "I won't be playing the game at all. 360 has exclusive DLC so it's even more of a reason for me not to play it."

Man...what? You don't want to play a game solely because some other guy might be playing a different mission than you are? Why don't you just enjoy your console and have fun?

Brand loyalty is a peculiar thing.

Sandvich

@robinandtami: I specifically stated that I had NOT played GTAIV on both consoles in an earlier comment. So I can't comment on that, as I have no idea what it looks like on the 360.

Omnimon

edit: ... to add a feature to a game being released in 2008.

Omnimon

@Sugaray: Developers favor money. Most won't intentionally gimp one system's game just because they prefer one one console to another. That's just stupid. And stupider is that you don't think anyone should be angry if a developer doesn't even try to make a decent port because they're fanboys themselves. Somehow that makes us the fanboys? Developers are allowed to have a favorite system but we aren't? Ugh...

Đipic

This is some bull... ah well, I won't have any money for it at launch, there's so many games coming out in Q4 that it's become ridiculous.

I'll probably be too busy playing LittleBigPlanet and BioShock to care.

LionheartAce

@enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC): And I'm saying that in doing so they would have put themselves into a position to have to "redo" QA work that had already been done. my guess is like any other game they don't have a month of sticking around with their fingers in an unmentionable place after development before the game goes gold. In other words, releasing the API/SDK for trophies in June is not enough time to expect a developer to add a feature to a game.

You have unreasonable expectations.

Omnimon

@Daisuash:

You just made me laugh for reasons I do not understand.

SnakesSolids

I guess we can count on Custom Soundtracks not being supported either.

Sony needs to start making this stuff a requirement or else no one is going to play ball.

BallPtPenTheif

I own a 360 and a PS3 and i have decided to not buy games from lazy developers who prefer one console over another for stupid reasons, so i´m not buying this game, Nah, i couldn´t do that, then i´ll get stuck with no games. But anyway, this decisions regards the trophies in nonexclusive games always trouble me, since i never understand or get a valid reason behind them, aside the classic "i like more this console than the other", that´s bullshit, developers should mae games thinking about the gamers, not their devkits. They´re just lazy if the PS3 were impossible to use, i´ll understand that, but since is not (a lot of developers have proved it) there´s no justification. So just get back to work and leave this shit behind, Gabe Newell can do it because he does good games, but that doesn´t mean he is no asshole...

Daisuash

@Jun581
I totally hear that shit.

It would be refreshing if Sony and other developers would release more games outside of the six weeks sandwiched between mid-October and early November, I'm pretty sure there are people who buy video games in other months too.

SnakesSolids

Certain developers prefer certain consoles, and often will include moer content/features for whatever their favorite console may be.Only difference this time around is that the 360 is in favor by more developers than the PS3(it used to be the PS2, with the original Xbox a far 2nd).I see nothing wrong with this and neither should anyone else, unless you've got a pet system and/or are a fanboy.

Sugaray

One major drawback to the PS3 trophies are that they arn't mandatory. With the 360, every game on the system (excluding origional Xbox games) have achievements.

Quicksilver4648

that's not a big deal, they can add them on later. ps3 owners will just have to play through twice...thats not so bad. given the choice though, one might be more inclined to get the 360 version, i only have a 360 but if i had both, i dont know if this would sway my purchase one way or the other..

tehblondie

@SnakesSolids: nah, I don't think they hate the PS3. I mean they do have to make money for the company that publishes their games. I think they are like us. They have preferences and bias like any normal human being but it doesn't mean they hate console B. ^_^

P.S. yea, I'm also going to be knee deep in LBP. I don't know how i'm going to this. I'm saving up for the funds necessary to purchase Bioshock, Socom, Fallout 3, LBP, resistance, motorstorm 2 (who said PS3 has no games). The problem is the allocation of time needed for the games. Priority is going to hard to establish. Also, SOCOM takes a lot of time to master. *sigh*

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

@Omnimon:
What are you not understanding? I'm saying that I think Beth could have done it if they wanted to.
Hell I like Bethesda..I moderate for them..I've done podcasts extolling the virtues of their games.They've given me free games..But,personally I think they could have implemented Trophies and that's their call.
Not Sony's to enforce it on developers already in progress on a title.

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

no buy then :(.

Was really looking to buy for the trophies, but now my interest dropped to the ground.

luxusa

After seeing the recent farcry video on player immersion posted here, I'm thinking it looks more interesting to me than fallout does. Anyone else?

sex-target

@ViceOfFire: I ha absolutely no idea what the fuss is with "trophies" and "achievements". Why would people want online bragging rights? There's nothing to prove, and they are a pointless waste of time on the devs part (although not much code).

Once you get some games with achievements that you (the gamer) wants to achieve you will see what the fuss is, and why they are not pointless. Im trying right now to get a full 1000/1000 in SCIV, its far more fun and extends playtime when you have goals the game has set for you. I know its irate that it is popular amongst gamers but dont discredit the system that has given more to gaming in general.

P.S - This will have no effect on the PS3. Gamers can go with or without achievements, not a deal breaker. Then again I don't know why the game is not getting trophies to be honest.

R3load

Trophies aren't a bummer. Hearing more and more that make this game sound like 'Oblivion with guns' is. I didn't get any enjoyment out of Oblivion, so this is a rental for either system. Fallout, a rental. I feel like I should hit myself for saying that.

Wolfers

Especially considering Bethseda hates the PS3.

SnakesSolids

You know, I'm gonna be balls deep in LittleBigPlanet at the time Fallout releases. I'll wait till it's properly patched, although it looks incredible, you know it's gonna be buggy to some extent at release.

SnakesSolids

@LittleBigPlaneteer:
@themissing:

I strongly disagree with that. Whatever deciding factor on has for buy a game is completely separate from them playing that game. As I remember, playing a game makes someone a gamer. Things like achievements and trophies are called meta-games as they augment the experience but that's a very personal thing.

I'm not willing to buy into the idea that gamers should be this hive mind of stupidity where we have to unite to hate or unite to like some singular thing. I would still consider myself a gamer if all I did was play counter-strike on a $12,000 PC. Even those who buy Avatar to get the easy 1000 points are doing something as gamers.

This is fun people, not some elitist bullshit. This horse is getting to high!

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

I was gonna get this game at launch, but now i think ill wait until i have time (and see if the trophy patch comes out)--with all the good stuff coming out on Nov. its gonna be tough to find time to play an 80 hour game.

slackjawed

Meh this sucks but plan on still getting it for the PS3.

boots555

For those who are un/misinformed about Trophies, from PS3fanboy.

Supported Now

* Buzz! Quiz TV (Trophy List)
* PixelJunk Eden (Trophy List) (Trophy Guide coming soon!)
* Super Stardust HD (Trophy List) (Trophy Guide)
* Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Trophy List)
* Warhawk (Trophy List) New!

To Be Supported At Release

* Aliens: Colonial Marines
* Alpha Protocol
* Bayonetta
* BioShock
* Blitz: The League II
* Borderlands
* Call of Duty: World at War
* Crash Commando
* Dead Space
* EndWar
* FarCry 2
* Godfather II
* HAWX
* Heroes Over Europe
* Killzone 2
* Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon
* LittleBigPlanet
* Mirror's Edge
* Mortal Kombat vs. DC
* MotorStorm: Pacific Rift
* NBA 09 (Trophy List)
* Penny Arcade Adventures
* Prince of Persia
* Project Origin
* Quantum of Solace
* Rag Doll Kung Fu: Fists of Plastic
* Red Faction: Guerrilla
* Resistance 2
* Rock Band 2 (Trophy List)
* Saints Row 2
* Shaun White's Snowboard
* SOCOM: Confrontation
* Sonic Unleashed
* Stormrise
* Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket-Powered Battle-Cars
* This is Vegas
* Two Worlds: The Temptation
* Wheelman
* WipEout HD
* X-Blades

To Be Patched

* Bionic Commando: Rearmed (link)
* Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway
* Burnout Paradise (link)
* Ferrari Challenge
* Flock
* NovaStrike
* PAIN (link) (Trophy List)
* PixelJunk Monsters
* SingStar

Will Not Be Patched

* 1942 (link)
* Call of Duty 4 (link)
* Civilization Revolution (link)
* Devil May Cry 4 (link)
* GRID (link)
* Mercenaries 2
* Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm
* Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (link)
* Ratchet & Clank Future: Quest for Booty
* Resistance: Fall of Man (link)

slackjawed

@Omnimon:
At this point it's really a moot arguement,isn't it?I'll wager money that Bethesda never releases a trophy patch.But,if you have a PS3 only it shouldn't stop you from getting the game.It looks really really good.

You aren't the only person to ever accuse me of expecting too much though :)

enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC)

I think when home drops and the trophies become "materialized" so to speak, and PS3 users can see them and show them off in the virtual space, developers will most likely not bother with them anyways. Achievements will always come first as long as games are made and demo'd on the 360.. In the next few years, people will see why making multiplatform games on the 360 first is not only bad in the sense that gamers owning other systems dont get to fully enjoy the game, but also in terms of the hardware capabilities of the "two consoles", the gap will widen until cheap cash-ins and optimized games will be more distinguishable. I noticed this alot in oblivion and many other multiplatform titles. To be honest, most are not worth buying if you own a PS3, and you are expecting to get the most out of your purchase.

This is PROBABLY one of the best recent examples of this.

Grandreaper999

@Daisuash: I hope Bethesda never add support for trophies. As the more time they waste trying to do it; the less time they have to work on other projects.

Also, why do you blame everyone but Sony for the current state of PS3 development?

I love Maria Ozawa

Oh shit I forgot about bioshock this fall too! With the recent drop in price for the Xbox systems (or upcoming- maybe it hasn't happened yet) I was going to buy one just to play this and a couple other exclusives, but the PS3 version is supposed to fix that widescreen issue that would totally just piss me off every time I would play it I'm sure.

sex-target

@robinandtami: Bah, I hate replying to the same person twice. Though, franchises often have the same product, for example The Whopper (Video Game), but might have different toppings in different areas, for example Dill vs Sweet Pickles (Trophy Support).

What I'm trying to show by pointing this out, is Trophy support (Minimum feature set enforcement) isn't as big of a deal for success/failure as you are attempting to show it is.

Aex

@enewtabie(wants a job at Insomniac Games in NC): Again, when you don't enforce a minimum feature set on your own console.... whose fault is it when developers don't decide to implement the features? There's a reason that so many chain restaraunts and stores are successful and that reason is consistency. You know what you are going to get whether you buy a product in NYC or in Poughkeepsie. On the PS3 you might get all of your favorite features supported in the next game you purchase..... or just as likely..... you might not.

robinandtami

@robinandtami: Personally, When I compared the game, neither version was graphically superior. It came down to just preference. Technically speaking, the Xbox 360 excels in some areas where the PS3 excels in others, so it is far to difficult to find proper support for either side.

I just went with the PS3 version due to the free online.

Aex

@