@Illusion: Not imo. As a sandbox game with a multiplayer mode it has more replay value than most games currently on the market. With the incentive of future DLC for the 360 version I think this game has true staying power.

Nexus6

@Fryfat2:
Yeah so it could lost like half of the feature set due to memory limitations.

DigitalHero

Having just got the game yesterday, all I can say is...wow, this game is lacking a certain element. And that element? FUN.

At a party a long while ago, a lady-friend of the people present picked up the controller to GTA:SA. It was her first time, ever, playing a GTA game. Once we told her how to steal cars and which buttons were gas and brake, we let her at it- having one of the greatest times in her life. There were probably around 10 of us in the room, drinking, watching her tear around streets, smashing into things, killing pedestrians, getting killed by the cops...and we were all laughing with her, because it was just fun. She didn't really have a clue what she was doing, where she was going...but it didn't matter. Because you could pick up the game and within a minute you could understand a majority of the controls to to use and the game was very accomidating, in terms of beginner playability. Could she do the same with GTA:IV? NO.

I know that eventually I'll get used to it, but when playing a game you shouldn't have to get used to the games' shortcomings in order to enjoy it. Mainly it is car control- truly, the biggest aspect of the game- and how the camera completely fails to provide for an enjoyable experience. Comparing it to the GTA3 engine based games, it's idiotic. It follows the inertia of the car instead of the presumed direction, so in order to make a turn more complex than 5 degrees you have to use the lookstick. Those of us who play FPSes and 3PSes are well accustomed to this, but why is it used for car control? So imagine a non-diehard fan of the GTA series, or someone new to the series, playing it on their friends console the first time. Imagine the frustration that they aren't driving well as they can't see where the hell they are going- sure, they could use the fake-ass "in car" camera (I have, to this date, only ever driven ONE car that I could see the hood of- and that was a giant 70's Caddy), but then they wouldn't be able to enjoy the scenery. I have only had a few minutes of fun for the whole 7 hours I have been playing it, as it's usually ruined by wondering why they didn't keep the much better camera system from before- true, now, if I were paying devote attention I should be able to use the new camera to see better, around corners and whatnot, but using it at high speeds often leads to over-compensation and crashing. On foot as well, the camera acts opposite what I would have expected. It used to be limited-look in cars, 360 on foot, and now it's 360 in cars, limited on foot. Why should we only be able to see where we're going when we're walking?

I know, eventually, I'll get to be able to control the camera better and subsequently drive better- but that's because I am not going to give up on the game, and am a fan of the series. Someone who is new or just plays it for kicks? I don't see it happening. When you have to work to be able to enjoy the game it's usually just not worth it. I pine for the days when I could hop in a car and SEE WHERE THE FUCK I WAS GOING.

denki

Should have made a Wii version.

Fryfat2

Oh what a problem they have, right up there with Nintendo currently not capturing the market that is "all living souls" for DS.

Kenofthedead

What do they expect? The PS3/360 combined hardware numbers aren't close to what last generation systems were when San Andreas launched.

RaptureScientist

I think they should be thrilled it sold 8.5M -- it wasn't a very good game. I forced myself to play it for 10-15 hours and I finally gave up because it was boring and wasn't getting any better.

jaz

Probably because everyone who wanted it bought it already.

Orionsaint

Will the PC version of GTA 4 have any sort of DRM on it? I recall Bioshock PC having Securom (though they eventually removed the install limitations), but I haven't really followed any Take-Two PC games since.

If it does, that might affect the PC version's sales a bit. The public, or at least the forum-going public, seems to be pretty unanimously against DRM.

Reedscam

I imagine a lot of it has to do with reselling. With minimal replay value, a ton of copies must be gotten from the used bin.

Illusion

Dudes, it's called market saturation...

thefais

I think R* forgot that the game isn't meant for 17-, let alone 14 year-olds which I'm sure they were secretly after.

cowpop

I wonder if the used market is affecting sales. Holiday releases probably suffer from used game sales less... wait, damn, is that why so many publishers bunch their games up around the holidays? Everyone buying their games at the same time = no used copies available?

Toasticus

I dont care so much about their sales expectations, i would like to hear they talking about what people expected of the game and didn't deliver....
in fact , the game sold a lot more than it should have ...

symphony_of_the_night

@hypermog:

Sadly.

RaptureScientist

I'm shocked that it sold so well, actually. What with all of the people on the internoobs yelling "AWMG dis r worst game ever! i hasnt pleyed it, but i herd it on utube so it must be tr00!".

ShaggE

They really need to bring out that DLC soon. Hopefully if they advertise it something like the Burnout guys did they'll see a huge spike in GTA IV sales. Plus once the PC version comes out it'll have another spike.

TwilightKing

Wait, so because Take-Two sat on it and refused EA's offer, they might get bought for even less than EA offered in the first place?

Brilliant, truly brilliant.

Nirolak

It's has sold 8.5 million so far. Just wait till the holiday season and sales will soar again.
Also GTA4 has sold more than any of EA's single game has this year so I would say it is still Take-Two's ace.

ViciousViper

Maybe sales are slowing because pretty much everyone has it by now. :)

For the record, GTA 4 was one of the two games I bought when I bought my 360 on 8/8, so you can't say I didn't do my part. :)

Mightion

Dull, uninspired sequel not doing aswell as they hoped? Seems like brand enough isn't enough anymore.

It's a pretty sad day for Rockstar when Saints Row is becoming a bigger threat by the day. It's like a jock getting the shit beat out of him by that greasy nerd he used to mock because he let himself go and that nerd decided to try a bit harder.

Burguois, Teabagger of Olde

Maybe they should have thought about that when they decided to take 2 steps back as far as replay value goes taking all the fun stuff from san andreas out? It's still a great game and has sold very well, but it's just not as fun as anticiapted. just my opinion of course.

TrifeLife

just lets you know that pretty graphics arent really the thing to have only to go next gen

jove

Seems like everybody is displeased with GTA IV's performance, not only in terms of how many units its shifted, but also its failure to boost sales of next-gen consoles.

BelmontHeir

I understand they wanted to sell big and all, but really, I'd be happy with those numbers. No big deal if I'm at 85% (or w/e) projected units sold when I'm rolling around in golden money sipping on molten gold wine.

mfwahwah

Well despite sales it would be interesting to see the production cost to profit ratio.
When it comes to mergers they'd like to see numbers like in Films eg: Blair Witch Project, Full monty were all made for single million earning 100s of million. Whereas say the Iron Man was made for 186 Million and so far international+US = 536 Mill approx. which is a good ratio (when talk about profitability and making money) but still not something of a killer if it's acquisition talks.
It'd be better for them to buyout the guys who make Sins of the Solar Empire than Take 2 technically because of this.

Comments 'rnt Us (usually)

@bigman88zz: *sentence

bigman88zz

@bigman88zz: wow, how the hell did i butcher that sencentce?

well, theres a way to get more sales out of the old girl. it involves something that begins a p.... and a system that starts with a w....

bigman88zz

GTA 4 is about to get owned by Saint's Row 2.

hypermog

well there a way to get more sales out of the old girl. it involves something that a p.... and a system that starts with a w....

bigman88zz

Wow, talk about setting high targets.

Still, I imagine the DLC will help.. it'd be good if they hyped it up a little, tell us abit of what's coming.

Kaonazhie

its perfectly plausable given the very high budget for this game, and the huge amount spent on marketing that even 10 million is lower than the originally expected.

cobrax25

Go away EA

dcdeveloperx

Well, to counteract some of the negativity here -- this was the first GTA game I've actually bothered buying, let alone completing. Something about it really clicked for me and instead of running around Hollywood backlots and bumping off NPCs I felt like I was driving through a living city and pulling off crime sprees. Still pretty mindless entertainment, but it feels like an upgrade from Steven Seagal movies to summer action blockbusters.

Plus, in-car navigation systems. THANK GOD.

Toasticus

@BADASSgeek: Did the 360 had double disc? Don't think so, so the Wii wouldn't either (considering both use DVD and Dual-layer DVD, they can hold the same ammount of space). It probaly would actually take less space, cause of having to scale it back in some aspects.

daknight

@Fryfat2: Don't give them ideas. Capcom already does that with Dead Rising. Do you want to look at the same graphic?

Jestersage

wanna sell more? just port the game to wii already (i can see this being the 1st double disc game if they do - and il be fine about that)

BADASSgeek

@Fryfat2: Just like there should have been a Wii version of: BioShock, Warhawk, Lost Odyssey, MotorStorm, Wipeout HD, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, Uncharted, Metal Gear Solid 4 and EVERY SINGLE OTHER FUCKING BIG NAME TITLE, hm?

People like YOU really piss me off.

Thassodar

If this is true, then you can add it to Sony and MS's disappointment of how many consoles the game (failed) to move.

dam0dred

GTAIV was the game critics have called for since GTAIII, a maturation of the series, characters, and storyline.

In a lot of ways it succeeded. The main character is arguably the most fleshed out character in the Grand Theft Auto franchise. Cinematic cut scenes and gameplay lended a sense of purpose and direction that's often seen in more linear games. Liberty City provided one of the most realized and characterful settings in video game industry.

But people wanted to fire a flamethrower off motorcycles and ride monster trucks down city streets.

RaptureScientist

I'm surprised it took me 57 hours of gameplay to realize it wasn't as good as any of the 3 previous GTA games. Heck, I've enjoyed the PSP titles more than I enjoyed GTA IV. By videogame standards, GTA IV is outstanding. By GTA's standards, IV is a long and serious road through an uneventful sotry compared to the fun, ridiculous and entertaining GTA games that came before it.

I don't hate the game, I love it. It's just not what GTA is to me. For that reason only, I'm totally not surprised it didn't sell like they wanted to.

AuraHACK

I bought the game, but have played it less than any of the previous GTA games. Maybe it's just me, but I've have a really hard time getting into it and stopped playing it a few days after I got it. The phone calls are annoying and I miss driving around in the countryside like in San Andreas. Maybe it's series fatigue?

MattB

Not a surprise at all to me other than, as many have said, that it sold as many as it did. Thanks to this game though GTA is no longer a day 1 buy for me. :( Multiplayer is fine and all but that in no way makes up for what this game lacked in most other areas. They should be as happy as can be that as many people "blind-bought" this game as did, if half the people that are as disappointed in this game like I am had waited on the in depth reviews and testimonials from other people, a lot of us would have passed the game entirely.

DrunkRaba

SD card music support for the cars would also be most welcome~~

BADASSgeek

@daknight:
but thats what i mean though, maybe they wont need to cut or scale back much so it could still be a respectable port. dont get wrong though! if they can get it on one - fine, the only issue most of us have when it comes to other platform games coming to wii is shoddy ports.

BADASSgeek

@Nexus6: And yet, I put it down after finishing the story and haven't touched it. It just doesn't have the same "fun to fuck around with after you're done" as the PS2 games. Maybe the DLC will bring some entertaining stuff to fuck around with, but I know I see plenty of copies in the used bins, so I don't think people are holding on to it for the DLC. If it's more of the same missions, I'll pass.

Illusion

Having been born in raised in So Cal, I thought San Andreas was the best. I love the soundtrack too. They dont make rap music like they used, except for maybe Nas and maybe the Game.

Friscodude

i heard 100 million plus to make the game

dgd1542

I loved III and VC, beating both 100%. I never bothered to beat SA since I didn't care for the story, but I did love riding around the countryside on a bike, and flying around in a plane, just exploring and stuff.

IV just feels dull. It's not fun to explore, since it's all just perpendicular streets and tall buildings nearly everywhere. It all feels the same and looks the same. Taking the taxi is more enjoyable than actually driving. Most of the characters are unlikeable as well. I stopped playing through the story when I was stuck with choosing a Manny mission or a Brucie mission. Roman is annoying too.

Also, it's 2008 FFS; I shouldn't have to button mash the A button in order to run at a decent speed.

Arteen

@TrifeLife:
I completely agree.

Once I beat the game, watched the TV shit and saw the two stand-up acts, there wasn't much to do in Liberty City. San Andreas is still the best GTA so far.

SnakesSolids

Reporter: So, Darth Tigris, why did you break up with Scarlett Johansson?

Well, as beautiful as she is inside and out, I was disappointed that she didn't secrete strawberry milk from her breasts.

DARTH_TIGRIS

I only hate GTAIV for one single reason:

"STUPID on-foot camera control. LET ME CONTROL THE CAMERA ON FOOT!!!"

I really want to punch the guy in the face who came up with the on-foot camera. Rest is OK but IV is nowhere near as good as SA.

SA > Vice City > IV > III

Snake9677

Well, maybe if they had bothered to work on getting the promised DLC content out when they originally said it would be out instead of breaking their arms by patting themselves on the back for the title's incredible sales in its first weeks, then maybe they would have a couple more digits on those NPD numbers.

djkibblesnbits

@PhilESkyline: Yeah, I played the first hour of it recently, and I kept waiting for it to start being a video game.
What it was doing was certainly interesting, but it was basically a movie broken up by rounds of Crazy Taxi.

Zerozaki Ishiki

@PhilESkyline:

An updated version I meant to say...

PhilESkyline

I think the realism took away from the video game feel. The game is too real if you ask me. Reality gets boring when there isn't much to do or you're doing the same thing over and over. Hopefully the DLC will help push some more units.

P.S. An updated first of GTA 3 San Andreas included in the DLC wouldn't be a bad deal.

PhilESkyline

There is good reason why it isn't doing too well, the game is made for a more mature audience than who normally prefer the GTA games, specifically the 13-18 year olds who have grown up hearing how cool the GTA series is and getting there well-meaning but otherwise inept parents to buy the games for them.

Kids can understand games like GTA:SA and the Saints Row games because they are simple premises, increase the strength of your street gang and associates so that you are able to wrest control of the city from the big bads. Kids aren't likely to really grasp a story about a former soldier moving to America in order to both to start a new life and put a end to his past by finding the person that betrayed him, but ends up finding that America isn't all that different from what he was trying to leave behind, and he must protect his cousin from the bad friends he had made. Not to mention that much of the political humor would simply fly over the kids heads with registering the parody.

The previous GTA games have mostly had their tongues firmly in cheek, were rather upbeat, and the violence comical. GTA IV is grim, tragic, and many of the characters are brutal even if not waving a gun around, something of a surprise to those familiar to the series, a welcome one to those who can handle it, and an unwelcome one for those who can't. And those who can't throw their arms up after a few hours, and attack the game on game blogs and forums whenever given the chance being as unspecific as possible to what their actual problem with the game is.

mikemil828

Bad news for gaming. The cream of the crop is underperforming? I guess it's because of the rapid popularity of the casual gaming. In reality, though, GTA IV has sold a shit ton, so I don't see why the big ups at the company need to whine.

HaydenTenno

Wow! What was their original goal? 100 trillion? Or some other silly number?

Take-Two needs to get its act together if it doesn't want to be bought out. They have solid IPs. They seem to make good games but they're always in the red. God knows why...

Concerning GTA though I played it a bit but really didn't get hooked in. Then again I haven't finished any GTA game ever. So I might not be a relevant person to talk to concerning it.

Hey the PC version still isn't out yet so they can pad their sales data with that. Plus they can always whore it to the PSP and DS if need be...

excaliburps

If theyd release that DLC already maybe people would be interested again.

Altima NEO

@Reedscam: If EA takes over, you can damn well bet that the PC version will have SuckuRom on it.

As for the topic, cue Jack Thompson saying that this is a victory in 3..2..1..

Ashkihyena

@Thassodar: Exactly, Wii should be getting the big titles, just like all #1 selling consoles have every generation in history.

Publishers wondering why their game isn't selling? Maybe it's because you're putting them on platforms that very few people are interested in.

Fryfat2

I admit it, I didn't want to be some russian goon (not even viggo mortensen could make that interesting).
Next game better be about criminals with oscar nominations.

Crowbot

What do you expect when you have the most repetitive missions in all of gaming history? Boss tells you to do something, it conveniently goes wrong EVERY time!

goombakiller

Something is wrong if a game sells 10 million and that's "below expectations".

Look, I know that this is a big series. I understand that Rockstar thinks it's the biggest series in the world.

But what fucking publisher in their right minds actually *expects* a game to sell more than 10 million copies? Only literally one or two games have done that in the history of gaming, and they did it over a period of years on systems with a bigger base than either the PS3 or Xbox 360.

Take 2 needs to stop smoking so much crack.

badasscat

Good. GTA IV was mediocre at best.

alb1221

I didn't like GTAIV as much as the rest of the GTA's because it has over the top violence like the rest of the series but tries to pretend it's characters are regular none psychopaths. I don't understand why people think it's a more mature game. Every mission is still kill everyone in sight, but this time without any of the over the top fun ways found in previous GTA's. I think I would have actually enjoyed the game more if it was a bit more mature and you didn't have to solve everything through violence.

TeknoVagrant

@bigman88zz: lol, time to put down the scotch.

Netnavi

Wow, talking about settings your expectations too high. Holiday season is coming you guys, just wait a little longer.

Mike's Stalker

@badasscat: "But what fucking publisher in their right minds actually *expects* a game to sell more than 10 million copies? Only literally one or two games have done that in the history of gaming, and they did it over a period of years on systems with a bigger base than either the PS3 or Xbox 360."

I agree there's not been all that many, but 3 games that did were GTAIII, Vice City and San Andreas.

Rotmm

Wow that is one hell of a greedy statement. I love Rockstar!

nitromic

I hate industry marketing analysts.

dynendal

They released it at the wrong time. It should have been November of this year, that way everyone would have gone absolutely bonkers for it, and then released a mission pack of some sort on New Year's Day.

That said, I still think GTA IV is absolutely epic.

OrazioAloeus

Per another Kotaku story just in the past few days:

"Take-Two Interactive announced alongside its quarterly results that Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto IV has sold over 10 million units as of August 16."

Spartan1308™

who cares if EA takes over? I mean, as long as they smarten up and not change anything radically as far as production goes, take two employees will BE MADE MEN.

Honestly the only thing thats been worrying me is the thought that one of the next gen systems will come to a phase. developers are being lazy (by nature, its not such a bad thing) therefore developers are leaning to coding on the system where coding is made simplest. I think that is a de-volving way of thinking. in order for games to evolve their must be new measures taken in the production of games. High end is the way to go, the best graphics, frame rates, physics, animations, and models. Take advantage of the PS3's Cell processor and the hard-drive.
Every 360 should have a hard drive. that way developers could speed up load times by storing a cache. sell games on a high capacity medium, LIKE THE BLU-RAY
If possible, improve on the blu-ray design and implement speed into the equation.
I hope developers learn from games like heavy rain and killzone 2

If you are able to combine cg graphics with fluent gameplay you can easily pull consumers in for the visual eye candy.

I will never turn my Wii on again. actually, ill sell it to someone if they want it. The graphics on the system make me wanna vomit spaghettis, I guess Ive been pampered by the "now" gen systems

agthang

Get afew kids to kill themselfs over it and have news about it plastered everywhere over the net and newspapers and businesswill be booming again.

Kung

@Superuser:

You shouldn't have to cripple a core game element to find fun in a game.

Moreover, the definition of "fun" that most people have in GTA games is lost on me. I get that it's a sandbox game that has a little something for everyone, but I can really just listen to the radio.

The core of every GTA game is really just spread out and becomes so very repetitive that you are forced, if you want to get your money's worth, to go away from the core experience if only because you're tired of going through the motions.

I get why some people like it. But I'd take a Resident Evil 4 that stays on task than a game that tries so very hard to mask what little fun there is to be had playing it properly.

PerswAsian

PC version and DLC should do the work...

Macko

@Superuser: i dont think people can't handle the game because they use autoaim. i think the main problem is, that they cannot beat people with dildos over the head. gta lost this "funny", over the top edge and replaced it with great atmosphere. that is what bothers most people.

Gutek

i honestly believe that gta iv deserves to sell 10million+, if only to compete with call of duty 4.
gta iv is probably the best game i've played in 20 years of videogaming and may only be challenged by deus ex.

Gutek

I don't know why most of you guys hate GTA4. GTA:SA was i no way better. Yes, it had more mini games, but nowadays there is something which is called Wii and DS that completely covers your addiction to mini games...

GTA4 is fun, bc it features an unconventional anti-hero in an absurd city full of sick people. The driving is the best in the GTA series. In-car view works perfect for me. It feels so natural to watch left and right before driving into another street. Drive-by shooting and so on works great. The missions are mostly fun and hit always the nice spot between too easy/short and too hard/long. I could go on ages about how great helis are and how fun it is to run amok. I like the conversations and the random chatter while driving. There is so much details to discover.
The only thing i really hate is that when i'm playing online and i host a game, everyone complains that i turned off auto aim for everyone.

And i think here is the real problem: Most people play this game (singleplayer) with auto aim. So when people play a (hardcore gamer) game where 50% of the fun comes from the gun fights, and they play it with auto aim, they ruin it by them self...

Superuser

I actually enjoyed this game but.. I guess everyone followed some guy who looked back on it and suddenly hated it.

Don't follow the sheep use your own opinions.

I thought the campaign was amazing and showed off game mechanics I didn't even think were possible in the game. Really fun.

I wish there was a (yes im going into a horrible game now) Kane and Lynch style bank robbery mission. Where the players on your team can betray each other, like for example whilst your driving away the partner can just punch the driver in the face and take control of the wheel.

That would be completely awesome and actually make the multiplayer somewhat interesting.

The thing that broke it for me was having to go back to single player all the time.

flukielukie

@Gutek:
I know many people who have played GTA4, and most (nearly all) have played it with auto aim, bc they "can't handle the cross hair", while they always have 20 (kills) to 5 (deaths) in COD4... I would say, they just haven't tried to play it the "good" way ;)

And yes, GTA shifted from pure nonsense (Dildos, etc... which i think was funny, too) to a more "intellectual" humor, which is a bit more mature, but that fits pretty good to the background of Nico, who was a soldier in the balkan war. GTA 4 is also great, bc of how it presents you the story out of the eyes of an immigrant, which was told about the land of honey and milk, while he discovers step by step how rotten Liberty City and USA are for real (in the game). BTW the "History of Liberty City" in TV is fuckin' hilarious :)

@PerswAsian:
"You shouldn't have to cripple a core game element to find fun in a game."

Do i get you right? You tell me auto aim is a core element? I always see auto aim as kind of a dumbed down experience for dummies (casual gamers). OK, if you ment it this way, did you never shoot manually in a GTA game? I now understand that people don't like GTA4, bc of the lack of mini games and childish humor... That makes me sad :(

Superuser

Once Saint's Row 2 hits, I'll probably never touch this game again.

KaneRobot

Looks like Hideo "Disappointed" Kojima now has a competitor in the Game Perfectionist Awards.

Frank

How do they not meet sales expectations? They have the best marketing available.

Kids and overly protective parents are running around screaming "HE DOESN'T EAT HIS VEGETABLES BECAUSE OF THIS GAME!"

And that's unfortunately how mild it gets. I'm sure this game still gets media coverage in some areas.

Shocky-

What, they expected to sell more? Do they even know how many PS3s and Xbox 360s there are?

San Andreas sold 17.33 million copies to an audience of 120 million PS2 owners. So about 15% of all PS2 owners bought it.

There are roughly 36 million PS3 and 360s, so roghly 24% of all PS3 and 360 owners bought it.

Seriously, what were they expecting?

L_K_M

DLC will sell more copies of the game. but Rockstar is slackin

DoomLight

I would like to see a break down of the 8.5M sales because It did not stay on top in the NPD's for very long and I know it did well in the UK but the install base for both the 360 and PS3 in the UK is a lot lower than in the USA.

sargemat

I wanted more fucked-up cheats.
I finished it a while ago and usually
keep playing, but the cheats were gimped.
I'm waiting for the PC vresion to get to
fly planes into the skyscrapers.

Sullyville

I picked up a copy in September. So +1 this month. Great game so far, I'm really enjoying it. First GTA title I've ever purchased. Makes it all new to me.

r0Be

What did they expect when projected sales were "Everybdoy on the planet" ?

TRT-X

Time to bundle up a new Special Edition.

NeoStarr

If Take 2 inflated sales expectations beyond realism, then they deserve to be bought out, so they could fire the execs responsible. So many people's lives get ruined by inflated sales expectations. I'm sick of hearing about it, I'm sick of dealing with it in my own life, just sick. "Mad as hell," one might say.

BtownDesignGuy

This isn't too hard to figure out, the remaining "market" for this game is primarily parents of older teens who will buy the game for their 16+ (hopefully) kid closer to Xmas. In years past when the economy was a little better some of these people might have gone ahead and bought the game in the early fall period and stashed it for later gifting or something similar, but right now most people are struggling to put gas in their cars. If they aren't really enthusiast gamers themselves GTA4 is the last thing on their minds.

So yeah, look for a nice little spike in both Marketing and sales for GTA in mid November, thats when they'll sell another million or 2, and then the game will taper off sales wise for real.

DaiMacculate

If it complicates the EA takeover, good. EA can keep their hands off of Midnight Club...

twinturbo2

Sales did dwindle a bit too fast there. I mean 46th is a drastic drop. Still, the game has sold tons of copies. It's not impossible to think, most of the next gen owners who wanted the game already owns it and thus the drop off. It's not like it sank because of low scores or anything.

Anyway, the game will continue to make tons of money and as always they'll release some sort of Special Edition, or group it together with old versions for a GTA boxset.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@BelmontHeir: what was different about this game then from the other gta game??

newave

DLC is a waste for this game. What Take two needs to do is release a PS2 version of the game. A lot of the masses are still stuck on PS2, because they can't afford PS3. The PS2 market, can still be strong for Take Two.

Thomaticus

considering that San Andreas sold twice as much and GTA4 most likely had more than twice the budget it's not really surprising that they're dissapointed. things like this makes one wonder how long game budget's will continue to increase. When the big titles barely are profitable themself where will the money for original titles come from? If sony and microsoft continue to battle over the most advanced hardware in the next generation it will probably not be possible to make a game for less than 20 million dollars without becoming the laughing stock of the internet. I was hoping that the Wii would change things a bit but even though it's outselling everything else most developers seem too ignore it.

beril

@radar2670: Added nothing? Ingrate.

Sunjammer

On further consideration; IV is a very narrative driven game and much less anarchic and sandbox. I think you must basically WANT to call up Roman and take him drinking because you WANT to hear him rant about his life or boast how fantastic he is. You must want to deal with these characters.

One of my favorite touches is that in almost every mission where you carry passengers the chatter between Nico and the other folks have a couple of variations. Sometimes failing a mission and replaying it will give you a new perspective.

Sunjammer

@jove: AGREE

madpowerbomber

Sales have probably dropped off due to the word getting out that GTA4 is boring. It's like having a big sandbox but with no toys to use in it. Not much fun.

They took out so much when compaired to previous GTA's and added nothing. The game is just blah. This game was a major disappointment for me as well as others I know.

If you want an Idea of what I think GTA4 should have been, check any of the videos for Saint's Row 2 on XBL.

radar2670

Hm. I like Nico Bellic. He's a sympathetic asshole, something Rockstar are really good at writing. By contrast, i absolutely could not get into SA, because your guy was written as this pseudo-sympathetic dude who nonetheless would kill people to get his hands on some rap lyrics.

I think GTA4 is the best GTA since Vice City, which is the pinnacle of the "cartoony" GTA style. IV took it into black gangster comedy territory and blended that with some really resonant themes of immigration and getting trapped in vicious circles. I think Rockstar did a spectacular job.

Liberty city is a god damn achievement. Just ridiculously detailed and well thought out. If you think the wide open emptiness of SA was better you're, uh, doing it wrong.

What i don't really understand is how 2K thought a 60 dollar game on a much smaller install base was going to outperform its predecessor, which was cheaper and had a ginormous install base waiting for it that were already huge fans.

Reality check. There are probably still more people with PS2s than any curren generation console. I still haven't picked up a PS3 (there's nothing on it i want to play), and for the most part i play XBLA games on my 360. The Wii, like me, waits patiently for more first party titles.

The market is too fragmented now to expect the same kind of bonanza whenever you release a triple A title. Those days are bygones.

Sunjammer

WHAT?! Since when is 10 million "sluggish"!? God lord, the percentage of console owners they sold it to was HIGHER than San Andreas!

excel_excel

@Fryfat2: Very few people are interested in the Wii because it has such a huge library of shit games.

Well done Nintendo.

bertfallen

@beril:

Wow, your comment is just so clueless to me.

How can you compare the lifetime sales of San Andreas to that of GTA 4? One has been out for four YEARS, the other for less than 5 MONTHS. You don't see a disparity there? Seriously...

Oh and let's not forget the install base for each console. GTA: San Andreas sold 20 million on the PS2 and original Xbox (plus PC). That's an install base of well over 100 million, and there's only 20 million copies sold of San Andreas out that. How many do you expect to be sold on an install base of roughly 36 million? Think about it....

If you think GTA 4 was "barely profitable" then you seriously need to do some research.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@excaliburps: I'm guessing that their overall goal was to match or beat GTA:SA's sales of 20 million. So far, they're just over a third of the way to their goal.

In regards to all of the complaints about the game that I've been reading here go, I wholeheartedly disagree. I immensely enjoyed the game. There was a depth to it that I didn't see in any of the other GTA games. I actually cared about Niko (regardless of a lot of the hypocrisy that the sandbox mechanics of the game lent to the overarching storyline) throughout the game and had a sense of empathy to his situation. The characters were far more fleshed out than in the past games in the series. I was impressed by both of the endings, but far more moved by one of them. The dialogue between Packie and Niko was extremely well written and sounded very natural. Also, if the player hung out with Playboy's old friend from jail, he had some very serious dialogue on the way to hang out (bowling/ show/ bar/ strip club)that went places I didn't expect video game dialogue to go. Overall, I was impressed by the game, and found the multiplayer aspect weak in comparison, especially considering all of the high-pitched, whiny, prepube racism/bigotry that came pouring through Xbox Live while trying to play.

masterdingo

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Good point. Hopefully they have the sense to make a second-wave marketing push for the game over the holidays, maybe teaming up with some console manufacturers for some bundles. MS, Sony, get on it!

@Sunjammer: Totally agreed.

@masterdingo: More good points. I was surprised to see how much the game had grown up. Those seemingly filler bits of dialogue actually went a long way for me.

It might seem a bit odd, but that low-key filler dialogue was one of the things that really got me into the mood for Gears of War as well. Little things like the guys reminiscing over old sporting events, teasing each other, and the subtlety (that's right) of Marcus's efforts to keep the group in line really surprised me. The interpersonal dynamics of Gears and GTA IV have quite a bit of depth to them if you are willing to pay attention instead of writing the characters off as one-dimensional just because they star in action games.

Toasticus

@LittleBigPlaneteer:

To further reiterate my point. As it stands, roughly 1 out of every 4 PS3 and 360 owner already owns GTA 4, and it's only been out for less than 5 months. If that's not an imprssive stat,I don't know what is.

Consider that sales will increase again around the holidays, and PC sales aren't even factored in like they are with the numbers for San Andreas. This game will easily surpass San Andreas sales.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@bertfallen: "Very few people are interested in the Wii because it has such a huge library of shit games.

Well done Nintendo. "

Are you an idiot?

excel_excel

The HD GENERATION is riding on this game. IF it's not selling, it means the market still isn't there.

VakeroRokero

I think Rockstar put too much into the strength of the brand. GTA4 feels too much like the rest of the games, so except for the story, I'm basically playing tthe iteration of GTA3 again.

smartboydan hates college

^^ Yes, he's an idiot. Check some sales charts bertfallen.

Fryfat2

The budget for the game, if I remember correctly, was somewhere around 100 million. They very easily made back their money, and then some, on this sucker. I don't know the exact numbers as far as how the $60 for each copy gets split up in the pie, but even if they only got $20 back for each copy sold they would have broken 100 million by a lot.

Poojipoo

i'm not surprised. after about a week and a half with the game, the cold reality started to set it that this game was kind of crappy. all the funny little quirks started to become glaring issues within the game and it wasn't long before i realized i had been fooled into believing the hype :(

i can't remember the last time it happened to me, but i swear to God: i'm never buying another shitty GTA game.

laser beams

That's because it's not as fun as the other GTA games!!!

smokeybones

@bertfallen:

Actually, a real gamer should be interested in a wii at least for first party games. I don't have one, but it does interest me more then a ps3 in terms of gaming.

GodKiller0

Well, they didn't sell the PC version yet, I plan to buy it...I didn't even want to try console versions yet. Once you try on pc, there's no going back to those half baked console versions. No more need for auto aim! Mods! Trainers! No-cd! lol

You guys have great arguments on how they complain for nothing, they should stfu and be happy

GodKiller0

@laser beams: glaring issues? on a perfect 10 game? you mean it was all hyped to get big scores?

VakeroRokero

@bertfallen wrote: "Very few people are interested in the Wii"

Hahahaha. Well played, sir. Well played.

@VakeroRokero: Let's be honest, GTAIV was a great game, perhaps one of the best games of this generation, but it did have "glaring issues." The host of perfect 10s was quite possibly more due to hype than due to the perfection of the game itself.

L_K_M

@VakeroRokero: yeah, i think the game has glaring issues.
1.)crummy camera (both in-car and on-foot), 2.)no check-points within missions (you're better off killing yourself instead of gettng arrested- unless you want to lose all your cool weapons), 3.)unintelligent world design: maybe i just had bad luck, but i started a lot of missions that went into the night, and the lighting [or lack-thereof] would make it impossible to see where i was going- such as running around the roof of the nightclub trying to kill some guy when you couldn't see where the railings and staircases were because the streetlights don't illuminate the area properly, or the mission in which you get in a shoot-out in what appears to be a burned out, derelict apartment building in order to steal a case and get away from police in hot pursuit. this happened to me A LOT. adjusting the color and brightness on my LCD didn't help much, either. eventually i found a code to adjust the time of day and i would just never play when it was night in the game. by this point i was too frustrated by these major letdowns and many other small ones to continue caring about the game. i only played it for multiplayer, but it didn't take long for the rest of my friends to get sick of this game, as well. i haven't touched the game in over 3 months, now and i just traded it in last weekend.
so, yeah- i found several "glaring issues" in a "perfect 10 game". reviews are subjective and i knew that all those 10's were over-hyped before i even got the game, but i just wanted so badly for this game to be great.

laser beams

How much did GTA4 cost to make? There were like over 9000 people in 20 studios who worked on this for years. Probably, they NEED 10 million sales, to make it profitable.

lumpi

It'll be better when it's out on PC.

Everyone surestimate the 360 appeal for older gamers all the time.

I blame EA.

Arthois

@masterdingo: As some other commenters have said, it's been only out for less than 7 months I think. The PC has yet to see it's version released. But are they going to reach that goal? I'm not really sure...

To be honest, I've played the PS1 and PS2 GTA's but it hasn't pulled me in like most of the people playing. It's not that it's a faulty game or whatnot. That's just my own gaming preference speaking. I do think that out of all the GTA's I've played that this (GTA IV) looks to be the most "developed" one.

I will give it another go someday though when the releases are few and far between.

@Toasticus: Yeah Sony and MS really needs to get a bundle done for this coming holidays. I'm sure it would increase the sales even a bit.

You know what? The thing you said about GoW's characters being one-dimensional and stuff, how can they not be? I don't mean this in a bad way but the fact that they're gruffy,muscle-bound men who tot guns and dish out one-liners are the sort of thing that makes this game what it is. I mean would anyone be interested if Marcus Fenix talked about the trajectory of the bullets he fired and their effects on Burmak skin? Or some other technical mumbo-jumbo? I doubt it. That's why I really don't get it when people hate "stereotypical" characters who, stereotypical as they may be, works.

@L_K_M: Yeah the hype certainly upped the ante. GTA did do some pretty impressive technical things. Was it perfect? Not by a long shot but most of the gaming media thought that what it did was relevant enough to score it a "10".

excaliburps

Boo fucking hoo.

NintendoFanBoy64

I very much enjoyed GTAIV but the removal of many of the side jobs (and their attendant rewards) was a mistake. On the plus side, it was by far the most "alive" city they (or anyone else) has done, but it is getting to the point that the level they achieved is expected.

Back when GTAIII came out it was new to have a totally wide-open city with all the pedestrians and open-ended play. But subsequent games in the series, as well as things like Mercenaries, Saint's Row, Crackdown, Scarface, Godfather, et al. made that kinda ho-hum, even when it is done to the incredible quality that IV delivered.

I want a truly alive city. I want to be able to follow a citizen around, and see where they live, where they work, their family. And kill them. Well, maybe not *always*. And when they are gone, they aren't replaced.

Saint's Row 2, while impressive with some of their bullet point features, is too hyper for me. I like GTAIV's realism, if they'd just put back in the mini-games (oh, and open up the missions more like Mercs 2). AND ADD CHECKPOINTS IN MISSIONS. =)

Oh, well, I guess there'll always be Hinterland for that jones, but Hinterland's 20 people is a little small compared to Liberty City.

BigWeather

@excaliburps: Jocks aren't the only potential area for one-dimensional characters. Nerds, gangsters, villains who had bad childhoods -- there are plenty of opportunities for a character not to rise above the limitations of its base stereotype. And it is just as possible for a character to rise above the base of being a linebacker badass as it is for a character to rise above the base of being a gangster thug. Unless for some reason you think it's impossible for ripped dudes who dish one-liners to ever have anything significant going on inside their heads, in which case you might want to reconsider who should be evaluated for one-dimensionality. :P

With the character of Marcus Fenix, the subtleties of his character are there, but if you write him off as a stereotype and nothing more you'll never pick up on them. By paying attention to minor cues like the tone of a reply, a choice of wording, you can infer quite a bit about what's going through his head. During the course of the game I gathered that he's become disillusioned with the idea of military glory because of a past incident where his morality conflicted with his orders (thus landing him in prison), but he retains a hard-nosed sense of determination that indicates a desire for revenge that never quite comes to the surface. If he were a one-dimensional character, he would have said at one point during the game "I'm out for revenge!" or "That's for my father!" or some other stupid crap like that. But instead, they leave it as a hint, anger bubbling beneath the surface. Sure, he gets caught up in the heat of battle and starts dishing one-liners like "Now I'm pissed!", but since the battlefield is a place of adrenaline rather than profundity I think that's more than allowable.

Toasticus

I bought this game used. I must be part of the problem.

reximusmaximus

I bought GTA IV: Special Edition for $50!

at my local Best Buy yesterday!!

I thought it was a great deal (safe box, art book, CD, duffle bag

whoo!

Ice-9

Some people are never really see the brighter picture.I heard that it will eventually top San Andreas and sell around 23 million copies.Plus holidays are around the corner,I don't know how many more will spring up cash to buy it.

Sugreev2001

The game is not fun. I literally played it like 6 times for a total of 10 hours and that was it for me. I would rather play GTA San Andreas. The controls are horrible, the only thing better in GTA IV from the previous ones are the graphics.

whimsicle1

The thing is, GTA4 is the perfect example of a game you sell once and then sell to someone else second hand. I wouldn't be surprised if up to 50% of GTA4 copies were sold again privately.

pangiz