@Lixie:

And that's why games will never be seen as anything more then just a kid's toy, because people don't want to see them mature and actually hold some meaningful content. Learning, thinking AND having fun?! GASP! You know they can have both kinds of games right? It's okay for some to be easy kill fests and others to have thoughtful content.

wageofsins

@Alex_Mexico: Are you really taking my "million" complaint seriously? It's a figure of speech. Is this is a joke?

SHOULD I LAUGH? HA? HEE? HOO!?

Ping5000

in my opinion i'd like
for a long story. Even
better is for Kojima to tell
me a nice Metal Gear story
before going to bed. go ahead
call me crazy.

Firesoul1

I have to agree with Judd on BioShock being easy as hell. I died only twice during the whole game, and beat it rather quickly. I had a blast with it, and thought it was a great game and all ... but seriously, it was easy. And I also agree on the MGS4 tip. Kojima tells one hell of a great story ... but I'll be damned if it doesn't feel like 15 minutes of gameplay, then half an hour of movie, rinse/repeat.

dead_red_eyes

@etchasketchist: "This is not trash talk. This is video game talk. It's what gamers do. Mommy and daddy are having a discussion. Go back to bed."

I'm going to give you a C+ for the use of conflicting analogies and lack of original troll bait material. Edit and resubmit for additional credit.

PhilipWPerna

Let's see Bionic Commando, Bioshock, or Metal Gear 4!?!! Which one do I think is a mindless piece of arcade crap and the other two rich narratives with substance and story?

Hmmmm, such a hard question!

Marculo

Game stories are awful. I know some people like game stories, some people think games are art, but I don't think those people read.

Fryfat2

@Avrum:
Great quote!

aevanko

movies too long, game too short

B-Kenntnis

@ryivanV2: I'm sorry, maybe I didn't mention he was a money-driven gun launderer that worked for the patriots hard enough to you. I could try it again, but you seem to think that you need to be told it over a ten minute period, and though I'd like to THINK so, I don't have that kind of time.

I got who he was right away. Call me crazy, english student, but there's more than just dialog that lets you know who a character is. There are students of story who hold fast to the notion that they should know what size hat a man wears from what he says and the way he says it, but I'm not among them. I got who he was from his tone and from his job, and who he was as a CHARACTER was fleshed out - not in that first scene that went on forever, but in his involvement in the story from that point forward.

Maldron

I play games to PLAY the game. Ken Levine said it best, "Nobody cares about your stupid story." I buy games for the gameplay, not the story. I don't care how much effort the writer put into the video game's story. Books will always have better writing, and movies will always have better acting. Just get me to gameplay ASAP!

I also don't like the idea of game designers who want to espouse their views about war and morality through preachy monologues. I don't look to game directors as a source of moral clarity. I look to game directors solely for gameplay. So spare me the "message" of your games.

Lixie

Totally agree on the MGS4 angle. It's still a great game, with an awesome story, but to quote a user review from another site "best game I ever watched."

Avrum

@SynKade:
*doesn't afraid of anything

But memes aside, Bioshock had a few hard bits especially towards the end... Which I think is the point. I don't remember it being too easy.

elevenoverzero

@RTW: I don't think the game Bionic Commando is about the story.... I don't really know, I only played the Demo but from what I heard alot from people it the game plays that counts which is quite fun.

Ryosukekun

"that's what people want?"

I personally wanted the murderous difficulty of system shock 2 out of bioshock, but eh

Tenrow

@Alex_Mexico: Yeah. Took me the same length the first time I went through it myself, due to fuck ups and continues and not knowing the boss fights. Hell, I spent twenty minutes alone trying to take Psycho Mantis out with the blue doll. Not permitted.

Every subsequent playthrough was under five hours total logged time, and that's with the unskippable thirty minutes at the end. The amount of gameplay was short. Just because it compares nicely to other short games doesn't mean it isn't also short.

Maldron

He might not be the most articulate, but I do essentially agree with his points.
Presuming that Judd is talking about thirty minutes at a time, rather than overall, I'd also agree with that part. The MGS4 ending was a pisstake, lengthwise.

The difficulty thing really depends on the game, but I agree that you don't want to die more than twice or so when you go through a game.

-Vagrant-

Mr. Judd discounts the masochistic nature of the average MGS fan (myself included), in that they want long-ass cut scenes (myself included). I don't think gamers want easy games though. Maybe easy shooters, but most of the popular games out there are based heavily on death or failure: multiplayer shooters, rhythm games, sports games (for every team that wins...) and MMOs come to mind.

[ZTF]

@Maldron: Some one is NOT there profession. Perhaps its because i studied english for so long and i can appreciate the detail in building depth in a character, but a his job was what he did, not who he was, for the most part.

ryivanV2

So Mr. Judd is basically saying that Bionic Commando won't have a story. Well, that's another one off the list.

RTW

@Maldron: see my last post.

Alex_Mexico

@ryivanV2: The patriot system? You mean that thing that was explained at the start of the game, with DREBIN, with the Rat Pack, and who knows how many OTHER times? His place in it? Goes back to the fact he's a bloody Gun Launderer.

Who he was: Gun Launderer.
How he did it: Hacked the systems to work with hacked nanomachines.
What he was about: Money.

There. It took me thirty seconds to type that, and it took the game ten minutes to drown me in exposition. I enjoyed the game, I get that you enjoyed it too, but I'm not going to overlook the unnecessary exposition that plagued it.

Maldron

One thing's for certain... Bionic Commando being frustrating as hell - CONFIRMED -

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@PhilipWPerna: "spouting his opinion in a negative and unconstructive way."

I don't know man, that's kind of what constructive criticism looks like.

This is not trash talk. This is video game talk. It's what gamers do. Mommy and daddy are having a discussion. Go back to bed.

etchasketchist

@icegoat: Oh god I love the HALO jump in the third, it was to Epic of a scene. I kept replaying it just so I can keep watching that one moment.

Ryosukekun

@Ping5000: a million times? no sir you're wrong. Its a fact that cuscenes constitute a total of 8 hours out of the entire game. In my first playthrough it took me (give or take 30min) 25hours (average 1st times are 20hrs). So the game would indeed have been shorter but not even by half. and EVEN without a single CS it IS still a larger single player campaign than nearly every shooter out there (Gears was 6 hours, Halo was 8, Uncharted was 10, etc).
stop complaining...

Alex_Mexico

@Maldron: Lol if you rush in for the Boss Medal.... But hey no problem in that right I mean look at gears of war, what it take like 4 hours to beat?

Ryosukekun

@Maldron: Yes, but the dialogue didn't JUST explain the intricacies of his job, it went in to explain the patriot system, his place in it and most importantly, it was the introduction to the character of Drebin himself. Who he was, how he did things and what he was about. It made you care about him and think of his little set up every time you heard the stupid Monkey sound when you hit the Drebin Shop.

ryivanV2

"they want to die once or twice"

heck, i don't want to die at all!

cyhborg

This is the 3rd article today that I have read saying new games are made easier

Sousanator

@Ryosukekun: I'll second that! Uhh... third. Anyway, cant get enough metal gear.

icegoat

@SynKade: Speaks the truth? He's just spouting his opinion in a negative and unconstructive way.

What is with developers, directors, producers, and PR representatives of games and game studios getting into this trend of trash talking one another? And was is with gamers nowadays encouraging this behavior?

It seems so petty and, well, childishly bureaucratic.

PhilipWPerna

@Ryosukekun: Of course it wasn't long enough, it was 3-5 hours without the cutscenes.

Maldron

Well, he has a point.

About both games.

Doesn't make them bad games, as he said. But those are completely valid points: it all comes down to how much those two elements bother you. Some people ENJOY overly complex retcon-trash (people watch daytime Soaps, don't they?) and not everyone feels like losing an hour of progress every time they get unlucky enough to die.

tzaketh

Bioshock easy, yes.

MGS With only 30 minutes of story telling. No. You can't deliver intimate dialogue while playing the game. It just doesn't work, hasn't in ANY game made so far.

ryivanV2

@AssassinTRIP: Cutscenes, yes. The number and duration? Not necessary. I don't need a ten minute explanation of what the fuck Drebin meant when he called himself a Gun Launderer. I got the concept RIGHT quick.

Whole game was full of that talk-too-much.

Maldron

I agree...too much talky. I bought a game, not a movie. It's an epic story, sure, but I also think Judd Apatow is funny AND needs an editor just as much. Just because you have talent doesn't mean you can't be guilty of long-windedness.

Mal-Content

@AssassinTRIP: I agree I like all of MGS4 it was the greatest of them all I say it wasn't long enough!!!!

Ryosukekun

MGS4 would've been a million times shorter, succinct and compelling if the writing didn't get hampered in redundancy.

Ping5000

He says people want "easy as hell" games... so Bionic Commando is going to be significantly easier than Bionic Commando: Rearmed, I take it?

Thorn

I likes his style!!!

Japan_Time

I agree on the Bioshock part.

As for the MGS4, it was the end of an epic saga. They had to tie up all loose ends. I don't see that being done any other way than cutscenes.

AssassinTRIP

I died alot in Bioshock mostly because I went head on with a wrench against a big Daddy. ................I was trying to be it's buddy. :O

Ryosukekun

@SynKade: Oh he's scared shitless of Mr. Inafune... or as he likes to refer to him: Kame-sama :|

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

Thank you for fixing it. -_- My cousin walked by and asked my why Kojima had the clap.

Ben Judd speaks his mind and keeps it real... Kojima's stories are getting longer and more interwoven in weirdness. I never thought of BioShock in that light. Now that I think of it...

Rika Aiuchi is SeXXXy

So, games are more fun without tons & tons of FMV. Wow.

Antic791

Meh, if HIS GAME can tell a good story in 30 minutes, then we'll see. I'm still not sold on whether Bionic Commando will be a gripping piece of entertainment.

jackydoe

@collusioned: think its supposed to be clamps, but hey, i might be wrong

meltyman

Claps

itsgreylolol

Different strokes for different folks.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

Mr. Ashcraft... why for you want to give Mr. Kojima an STD?

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

I think Ben Judd is a pretty cool guy, eh speaks the truth and isn't afraid of anything.

SynKade

Errr... Claps?

collusioned

Pssh, dude will never amount to the level of Kojima. MGS has progressively gotten better and better every installation. It's the story that pulls people in...it's one thing if you hate sitting through a long cutscene, but that is what makes the game. It's like playing a f*cking movie. You get to a certain point and you sit back and what shit unfold. It's what makes it so beautiful. Dude will never engage himself in a project of such a scale and magnitude as the MG series. Kojima is a god in the Video Game world, he basically single handedly created the stealth action sh*t.

Hutchinson

Bioshock was easy, yeah, but he's got a point as well: Bioshock had a story to tell, which was what the game seemed to be about. Insane difficulty might have just gotten in the way.

Bauske

@Firesoul1: ....I don't think I can applaud thee anymore... D:

Turambar

@theEnemy: I mean lots of things. But yeah, I meant that. ((Though technically wrong, I'm also technically right. Plot twists be crazy, yo. :p))

And yeah... Big Boss was frustrating as all hell. I didn't have the solar gun or any emotive ammo, nor the one-handed shotgun, so that bike scene was... tooooortuuuuure.

Heh. Regardless. Grats on the BBE, man.

Maldron

@Firesoul1: I just vomited a little in my mouth :( Make sure Kojima drinks lots of pineapple juice before you get your story told ^_^;

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

Eh. I'd rather play ten hours of Bioshock than ten hours of something like Contra.

Lightman

@Maldron: You mean Screaming Mantis ? :)

And I've read some people took an hour or two figuring out how to kill Vamp :)

oh well, MGS4 is perfect for me.

The cutscenes are there for many reasons.

After the first playthrough, you don't need to re-watch them. It will remain on your hearts :D.

I finished the game @ 3hours:47mins on my Big Boss emblem run. But it took me days figuring out HOW to do that.

theEnemy

@Fryfat2:

Movie stories are awful. I know some people like movie stories, some people think movies are art, but I don't think those people read.

News flash: games aren't books. And since when did "story" become the primary criteria of art?

concrete_d

@dead_red_eyes: There you go again red... conforming to everything... always conforming... you've changed man >:( You used to stand for something. I looked up to you because you didn't bend to anything. Now just look at you... bloated by that rich Capcom money pipe. It seems integrity has died and it was killed by dead_red_eyes. I can't even look at you anymore... to think I used to fap-off to your comments... now you're just a Ben Judd sympathizer. I CALL YOU OUT AND QUESTION YOUR CHARACTER!! IN PUBLIC TOO! YOU KILLER OF DREAMS! DECEIVER OF BILLIONS! HARLOT! CRIMINAL! MURDERER! BABY EATER! DOG RAPER! REPUBLICAN!!! I honestly forgot what I was trying to get at.. oh yeah?

Did you beat it on hard (Bioshock)? I always start games on hard usually. It felt satisfying to me that way.

I do admit that games today are no where as hard as they used to be but at the same time... beating Bioshock in 12 hours (4 sittings) versus beating System Shock in 4 weeks are two completely different things to me.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

Are really going to talk about another one of these guys? Really? REALLY?

You Are My Friend!

Agree on both points but those games are still great.

canchegundam

@Turambar:
thank you, thank you, your so kind.

Firesoul1

@everybest: sorry, forgot to add this bit to the end of that quote

which is not the right way to do it,

everybest

thing is, if it happens i'll
say "put on blind fold first!"
then i do the old switcharoo
and place a Raiden blow-up doll.
finally, i will covertly hide
under a box that says "do not disturb".
does that sound good? and why would i
need toilet paper?

Firesoul1

To each their own but until Bionic Commando hits Bioshock or MGS4 numbers he should be very quiet. I imagine the game will have high numbers sales wise but I can't have a game with no story. Games are getting too expensive to only get "30 minutes" worth of story. And with some devs not putting their full heart into games a story may be their only saving grace.

TheNexusRebound

if you make it so that if you die you can restart and retry without having to go back for an hour

I completely disagree. Sure, give us a death penalty, but don't waste an hour of my time every time I die replaying shit I've mostly beat.

everybest

@ aevanko

Heh, like I said, I picked it up from some user review. :P I love the MGS series and as great a game as MGS4 is, it does have its faults. Aside from the lengthy story exposition (which has been discussed to no end since release) I've always had a problem with the introduction or general overview of the B&B Corps. versus previous "groups" in the series. It's hard to appreciate those moments in the game when they're presented as nothing more than Boss Fight [enter number here] and then you get some backstory from Drebin about how how their innocence was stolen from them or something.

The Foxhound unit, Dead Cell and Cobra Unit (for example) all were prepared pretty nicely and their parts in the overall games' story (let alone the series for some characters) stuck with me throughout. Yeah, there were a couple here and there that didn't seem to amount to much (Decoy Octopus - for obvious reasons, Fatman and The Fury) but otherwise it felt like they played more of a critical role in their respective games where the B&B Corps. came off more as gatemasters guarding the way to the next area.

Kojima is a great designer and storyteller but MGS4 skewed way too much to one side that I truly hold to heart the idea that it was indeed the best game I ever watched.

Avrum

Call me crazy, but I like a lot of story in some games *e gasp!* more games today are going to have a story in it, that's just the way it is.

Hearts_Are_1

Kojima isn't going to change his unique directoral approach just because some people have less patience than children.

YHWHMystic

I can see why this man got a great job at Capcom. And suddenly I am crazy excited about Bionic Commando. Deep breaths...

Xiedo

I'm inclined to agree with Judd about MGS4. I feel it's the best movie I ever got to play some game in the middle of.

I ended up skipping a LOT of cutscenes just to get back to the meat only to find more of them getting in the way.

MGS4: Tactical. Exposition. Action. More Exposition.

DONAR

I guess he doesn't know that the Japanese love their stories twisted and convoluted.

Veridis_Quo

@Firesoul1: Sir, I applaud thee.

Turambar

Hmmmm. I'm gonna pass on this dude. Even if he is right on both accounts, but there's being honest and there's being a dick.

until.december

@Firesoul1: What if he goes to bed with you and tells you an nice story under the blanket and then asks you to call him daddy while he shows you the true origins of solid snake?

Sounds good? Want a roll of toilet paper?

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@okenny :): They're not kidding Okenny, there are seriously nine total hours of cutscene in the game, people have bothered to count it out. It's had a bad rap to be sure, I enjoyed the game in spite of it, but it's a bad game to be playing with a "one more fight before bed" mentality.

Maldron

I love the overly-bloated, convoluted and just plain stupid plot of the MGS games. It's what I've fallen in love with. However, it's not a trend I'd like to see in other games. In fact, I generally can't stand games that don't know when to shut up.

futurebiblehero

Clearly this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. There isn't anything about MGS4 or Bioshock that needs changing. If Bionic Commando doesn't sell anything near MGS4 sales, then the only thing he should be criticizing is his own game and why it didn't have appeal to sell. This guy is no where near the status of Kojima to be judging one of the gaming gods.

mikeymui

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): I'm...not quite sure how to respond to that...

Turambar

@smuai: This isn't my opinion as I haven't played MGS4 (waiting for the 360 version) but some people are of the mind that it's a story with some game sprinkled on. They say it isn't that they don't like MGS4, it's just that they weren't aware they were buying a movie. I personally find their argument absurd. I mean sure I haven't played it but I find it hard to believe that any game can have multiple cutscenes longer then 40 minutes each. I think MGS4 just got a bad wrap. Mr. Judd here is suggesting that Kojima cut down the total amount of seen to about 30 minutes... clearly Kojima probably went over this cap by a few minutes. If MGS4 actually had over 5 hours of cutscenes like some liars on the internet suggest then Ben would be foolish to ask for such an extreme compression of story. I'm with you, I like story.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@smuai: No no, my dear boy, you have me all wrong. Story is wonderful, and I would even suggest necessary, but all writers need to see the value in self-editing.

Maldron

Marlow thinks Kojima needs Rivets.... and so does Joseph Conrad.

outofreach

whoa whoa, i must have been out of the gaming world too long - nobody likes video games with a story/plot? :'(

smuai

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under):
! *alert mode, you have been found!*
*scurries away under the box*

Firesoul1

@Firesoul1: @Turambar:

I'm going to stalk you two now <3

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under):
oh! i get it now! so what my girlfriend
was telling me is the truth. and im
sorry if you have to brush your teeth
for a second ( or third ) time tonight.
i was only trying to be funny.

Firesoul1

@Turambar:
well there goes my 5 mins of fame lol.
thanks anyway.

Firesoul1

I like what he has to say and I love that he shoots from the waist, but honestly I see room for multiple kinds of games out there.

There are games with story, some of which branch (KOTOR, Fable) some of which do not (MGS series, Final Fantasy).

There are games without story (or minimal story) that are linear (Bionic Commando, racing titles) and those that are not (Saints Row, Mercs).

There are games you want to experience for 20+ hours like a movie, and those you want to jump into and jump out of quickly.

There is even room for Spongebob to coexist with Ninja Gaiden on Path of the Master Ninja in terms of difficulty.

Kojima created a masterpiece in MGS4. I've never felt so driven by a story in an "action" game. I wish there was more stealth gameplay, but I wouldn't want them to cut any cutscenes to accomplish that.

raviadso

@Hutchinson: I agree, it's like playing a movie. Unfortunately, I like playing video games.

Lightman

Agreed, Hideo Kojima needs an editor. I love his games, but I'll be damned if the narrative isn't kooky.

I disagree about Ben Judd's take on games, though. Sometimes, a relatively easy, few-deaths-as-possible game is better, especially for those of us who can't afford to spend that much time in front of a game mastering it. Nothing personal, but the steep difficulty is what kept me from buying BC:R. I enjoyed the demo, but I could tell that the difficulty would only serve to aggravate me.

Altersparck

It's Ben fuckin' Judd....he can say what the fuck he wants!

Knoxximus (360/PSN)

please burn my eyes out.

Momentarylogic

Oh, and he's all about difficulty... Sorry, but for me, throwing my controller against the wall because I got cheap shoted AGAIN or because of silly platforming elements that come down to bad controls is NOT my idea of fun... I ditched NGS, and I really wanted to like it, but I'd had enough... I don't play games to drive me to an early grave, I play them for fun. If a game has PROPER difficulty modes to please everyone more the better. I'm guessing the new BC won't have those, based on what he said. I mean, even rearmed was about 10x harder than the original.

bobtheduck

Devs shouldn't take craps on other devs... Seriously. Especially a dev with no history taking a crap on a legend. Even IF some legends are meant to die.

bobtheduck

He's right on about Kojima. He does need an editor for sure or at least someone to say hey this part of the story...this part here...this is fucking stupid. For each of the bosses to have such exaggerated quirks has annoyed me for the entire series. Why can't they all be like Ocelot?

Halosucks3

MGS4 was a wrap up, I bet if there wasn't all that explaining done... then everyone would be left with big question and exclamation marks over their heads just like what the PMC guards get when they spot you.

Not to mention the hordes of people complaining about how the story wasn't wrapped up correctly. You can't please everyone.

It's been awhile since I last played the game but from what I remember you can skip the goddamn cut scenes if you want to.

To whomever complains about the pointless things Drebin says during the cut scenes, if you don't need him to explain everything THEN SKIP IT. Hit the darn button.

People complain about the silliest things, it's like getting punched and you're just sitting there taking it the face. But while you're getting hit in the face you're saying "ouch why are you doing this?".

Honestly now, let's see how well he can tell Bionic Commando's story. Or if the story is anything interesting at all.

RyuriTatsujin

Chuck Norris needs to roundhouse that beer and smirk on his face

bobcaticus

Ben Judd needs a new rugby shirt, he's always wearing that one!

Slyght

Eh, the Metal Gear Solid series is a rare cinematic experience it's unlikely we'll suffer through every game being half gameplay half cutscenes anyway. It's rare treat for me anyway, nothing I'd expect few, let alone everyone, would follow with games containing several minutes or hours of cutscenes in between gameplay.

And incidentally, I tend to enjoy games like Bioshock or Crysis more because of the way their save systems were approached. There are still challenges, I still die often, but the repetition of dying in the same vein as a game of Contra, Viewtiful Joe, or Megaman in a modern game design setting that takes several minutes to accomplish would be too much of a chore to keep repeating. Add to that many games today are more "cinematically" approached, you kinda lose some of the experience and impact by repeating the same sequence all too often. I mean why do you think people complain about non-shippable cutscenes and the like?

questworld

30 minutes? How about 2 hours? No one has ever told a good story in 30 minutes. Except for Seinfeld. The Soup Nazi episode was gripping.

dowingba

If he felt BioShock was too easy, why didn't he turn off the respawning? The key is to make the game accessible to both people who want to experience the story and people who want a challenge, not to make the game hugely inaccessible just because you're a macho retro gamer who grew up playing games that were designed to steal all your money quarter by quarter.

markusdragon

@cyhborg:

Me neither. i am sorry but I dont have all the free time in the world to play a game over and over to get pass some lame ass part. I want to get through it. So minimum dying please and include fun in it.

shadow763

Come on - he's giving his opinion. Nothing wrong with that. Even I can have an opinion about Kojima's games.

Zuiyo

A lot of gamers are getting older, there were days that I didn't mind sitting in an arcade drilling new KOF combos into my repertoire for hours, or playing an frustrating part of a platformer til I had it right. Today, the luxury of time isn't on my side. Bioshock? That's what the difficulty setting is for, if you feel like dragging it on for months.

My friends on the other hand, don't even have the resilience to play Rock Band on hard, so I don't really see a need to target the hardcore aspect of the gaming demographically as zealously as Judd would like.

TrickyNishidake

If MGS4 was shorter, it would make no sense. It's hard enough to understand as it is. The massive, epic story is what fans of MGS love. Judd just sounds like an old man, stuck in the past when games had simple crappy stories, and you die like crazy. Like the original Bionic Commando.

kadaj24

"He needs to put the clamps on himself and only give himself 30 minutes."

This reminds me of something a scriptwriter friend of mine used to say, that every film should able to be explained in 5 minutes for a pitch. Sure you were going to blow it out into 2 hours or so later, but if you couldn't get the bones out in 5 minutes, then it was just going to go bloaty bloaty bloat when you tried to write it up proper like.

I'd interpret his remark in that light. Not so literally "just 30 minutes" of story per game, more like "stay on the point and tighten up your story". If there's one thing games could learn from hollywood...

CurlyJim

OMGZ!! I'm able to see comments again! *dances*

Polite Society

"If you make enough restart points; if you make it so that if you die you can restart and retry without having to go back for an hour, which is not the right way to do it"

Hell yes.

Can't you imagine how much more awesome Portal would've been if, every time you died, you went back 4 floors? That would've made the game FAR more satisfying. And longer, too! It could have been a 10-15 hour game instead of just a 4-6 hour game, without any additional content required.

Can I stop now? My sarcasm gland is starting to ache...

V1L3

Yeah, he's 100% correct on both counts. If Kojima knew how to control himself and avoided going on tedious flights of self-indulgence MGS4 would have been legendary. But I guess, that's what happens when you have no one to tell you you've gone astray. He's like Britney Spears (pre-"comeback", obviously), merrily carrying on in his own little world, deaf to the pleas of those around him, immune to their consultations (if you will).

Personally though, I enjoyed everything about MGS4's story but the last half hour [SPOILER:ON] with the Mount Rushmore ship and Big Boss carting an invalid around a graveyard and Raiden's arm transplant and Meryl's landing strip wedding to one of the extras [SPOILER:OFF] left somewhat of a foul taste in my craw.

Oh and Bioshock. I didn't even know what those vita-chambers were, I assumed they were nothing more than set decoration. I didn't die once during my first play through and on my second go when I got to Frank Fontaine, a friend who was watching me play, pointed out that, luckily, there was a vita-chamber nearby. I went "huh" and he explained their function and a jolly laugh was had by all. :|

*Sigh* Why couldn't Naomi Hunter have been as pleasant as Dr.Tenenbaum?

Ira Lazerburg

I haven't played MGS4, but have played MGS3 (and most of the first two MGS games). I think that the games had "interesting" stories, which were a step above most games in terms of narrative, but I can't say that the stories were all that enjoyable in and of themselves. In fact, I've never seen a videogame with a story that I would enjoy watching outside the context of a game.

Narrative storytelling is something that just hasn't been done all that well in games. The best games for me are those that let the player's actions in the game drive the plot, while focus on characterisation via short storytelling interludes. Baldur's Gate 2 did this especially well.

Marlor

[oops posted too early]
...snd remember a thing or 2 for next time I go through the previous stage, building up expereince until you finish it.

That's my kinda cake. Run'n Guns, Platformers like Ninja Gaiden & The Super Shinobi, Beat'em Ups, Lightgun Shooters etc. (I also have some competative urge for Fighters and some Racers).

loempiavreter

Wow, that was longer than I expected. TL;DR - my perspective on "easy" vs. "difficult" games. Neither party favored.

jmaster14656

I think he's spot on about the difficulty.

I don't have time to play 40 hour RPG, adventures etc I want my 2 hour hard as nails experience. So that I can blow of some steam in 30 minutes and maybe finally get through to the next stage.

loempiavreter

@Maldron:
"Who [Drebin] was: Gun Launderer.
How he did it: Hacked the systems to work with hacked nanomachines.
What he was about: Money."

I'm with you. Remember back in the '90s when, JRPG's aside, the most you ever needed to know about a supporting character was written in an instruction booklet? Story may have evolved, but in bite-size segments, and just enough to get you to love your friends and hate your enemies more.

Judd's take on games, I think, is spot-on, but only for half of the gaming audience. I've started thinking of video games in two categories lately - "game worlds" and "games." A "game" is a more competitive type of video game, in which player(s) compete according to a set of rules, either with each other or the computer-controlled characters and environment. Think Mario, Halo, Mega Man, or Starcraft. Every player has a specific goal they are meant to fulfill, and that goal is achieving victory over their opponent or the game's levels. Progress is usually tied directly to skill, and the player learns the best strategies through losing many times first. A "game"'s primary attractions are mechanics, competition, strategy, and a sense of accomplishment. These are, I think, the kinds of game Judd likes.

"Game worlds," however, are far less competitive in nature. Their main draw is atmosphere or immersion, either telling a story or immersing the player in an alternate universe. In this way, the "game world" is less like a framework for competition and more of a heavily altered model of reality. The player is given a vast amount of choice as to how to interact in a "game world," and because the emphasis is less on competition and more on immersion, progress can often be achieved through many different (sometimes vastly so) means. Think Grand Theft Auto, Final Fantasy XII, Bioshock, The Sims, etc. "Game worlds" still present challenges, and may still have complex mechanics involved (FF magic systems arrgh), but "Game worlds" aren't designed to defeat the player, but rather to be defeated in order that the player's game flow or the story's exposition doesn't end too early and too frequently.

"Game worlds" and "games" are equally fun, depending on what you're looking for. Any of my friends will tell you how much I like Ninja Gaiden, Guilty Gear, and IWTBTG. As a means of interactive storytelling, though, I feel "game worlds" can convey things that traditional media simply can't (Bioshock and Half Life 2 stand out as personal favorites). Also, a good sandbox game, like Spore, makes for a fun escape when I'm feeling creative.

What's fun is just a matter of taste, but I will agree with Judd in one respect - the number of "game"s available is too few for my personal tastes. Bring on the Learn by Death! I'm not afraid! But I'm also glad that the Bioshocks and Morrowinds of the world exist. Video games are a versatile media, and I hope things stay that way in the future.

jmaster14656

"Gamers have lost their will to continually drill down on something."

So the sleepless nights I spent playing COD4 on veteran until I cleared every single mission was "losing my will"?

GTFO Judd, speak for gamers the world over when you've earned that right.

Ghetto-Cornetto

Seeing how the first big daddy was the only somewhat challenge of the game being you had a wrench, ya game was easy as hell

Sorablade

I agree that Kojima's tales have gotten way long in the tooth, but that's kind of the attraction, isn't it? In an industry where you're lucky to get more than an hour of exposition for a 12 hour title, Kojima's games are jampacked with storytelling.

So, if by 'give himself 30 minutes', he's talking about clipping the total length of the story, then NO. DISAGREE. If he's saying that a 90 minute cutscene shouldn't happen, I'd tend to agree.

And yeah, Bioshock was easy. But you'll notice he DOESN'T say Bioshock wasn't fun. Just that it was easy. And it was. I died plenty, but never in such a way that hindered my progress in the game. I think there's risk involved there... it's kind of like rewarding the player for just showing up, if you take it to extremes. But at the very least, one way or another Bioshock kept me plugging away at the game until it was done.

Insomnia Bob

@Lightman:

Who cares what you like lol.

The fact is when you pick up a FF or a mgs game it is also like your reading a manga and that's why it sells so damn well. There is a reason before mgs4 was release there was so many conspiracy threads on game sites. All kojima did was answer 20 years worth of questions. The MGS series is the only game series that story stretch for over 20 years and you grow connected with the characters and you watch them grow and mature. Like when snake first appeared in metal gear on the nes, he was just a young coldblooded killer with no real friends . Fast forward to mgs4 he became a old killer but gained a heart and began caring for others. And any game with a online mode can't be called a short game.

mace89

I like games that have story but don't force it on you. i.e. Metroid Prime

kojirodensetsu

Bioshock is pretty tough on hard with no vita chambers. I feel like thats the way it was meant to be played

FreakyFavabean

I felt Metal Gear 4 DID lack self restraint and an editor going over the script. Hid older games, before he was giga-famous, probably had people going over his stuff to approve them before giving him the GO signal. Otherwise he makes interesting stories.

Padder

What's this guys gamertag? I want to see if he has the Brass Balls achievement (Complete the game on Hard difficulty without using a Vita-Chamber) from BioShock. I will admit that I have played harder games but I wouldn't say that this was that easy of an achievement to get and BioShock is still one of the best games so far this generation.

RykinPoe

@FreakyFavabean: This is what I don't get.

It's not like there aren't harder difficulties to choose from. And aside from that, what about achievements?

Tell you what, Judd. When Bioshock comes out on PS3, send us a screenshot of your Platinum trophy. THEN you'll be qualified to tell us the game is too easy.

V1L3

There's a fine line between a challenging game and a game that isn't fun. I thought Bioshock was challenging at points, but once you upgrade enough and get enough ammo, the game gets significantly easier (especially with the respawn chambers).

But I really don't have any interest in playing Battletoads incarnate, either.

Strangelove

I agree with this guy 100%! Kojima needs a muzzle!

magictroll

It seems this is more of an issue of eastern vs western design and ideas. A commenter posted that MGS4 sold well b/c it is like a manga. Perhaps cultural differences allow for more story or less depending on where one is from. I for one am in the middle. I liked staring at the cut scenes, but at points I was looking at my watch like "your fucking kidding me. I want to play this game now please."

As far as difficulty, I don't think anything is gained when you have to restart a game and re-play things you have already done. This just makes me not want to play the game anymore. Old NES games used to be like this, but things have evolved since then. No need in going back. Now, we have difficulty selection on the first screen or so. Problem solved, no need to bitch about difficulty. I remember playing GOW II on the hardest difficulty and it took me weeks. The challenges are there if you look for them.

And bioshock was easy? As other posters mentioned, just turn off vita chambers and ramp up the difficulty. The first time I played it (on normal I think) the first boss, that dr, killed me a couple times. In my defense I had not played on XBOX before (I have a ps3) so I think I was getting used to the controls. Yeah, that must have been it.

sex-target

here is the right way to do it --

Give the gamer the choice of restarting from the beginning of the level or whatever to retry (include a benefit with it) or allow the gamer to continue from where or near where they died.

Gee. Choice in a game ... go figure.

Games aren't about being frustrating, they're about being fun -- some games that you have to keep restarting are fun, but in general, they're just stupid. It's a holdover from the arcades where they wanted you to restart so you would put more quarters in the game or get off of it. It's a limitation that we've passed.

Bioshock was as easy or as hard as you wanted, depending on how you decided to play. That's the sign of a good game.

jayntampa

Much love for da BioShock. Much love.

Kojima, mon, you got to wear da rubba.

Anarchist_Gamer

@SynKade:
Ugh.

YouArnottTheFather

That's actually a really good way to put it. Although Kojima did paint himself into a runt by leaving so many unanswered questions in previous games, where he expected those games to be the last in the series (starting at Sons of Liberty). Not exactly responsible long term directing (to a degree).

AntiZERØ

I think he meant chaps... like those gay people use with no pants... or underwear for that matter...

Señor Cagon

I always find it funny to see lesser devs trying to speak down to giants.

Rinaldus

He's totally right. Kojima needs an editor with FISTS OF DIAMOND AND GOLD. Bioshock WAS easy.

Sunjammer

I like this Ben Judd fellow.

Gray665

When you pick up the game, how long do you have to wait (through an install, through the opening bullshit) before you can actually move snake?

If the cut scenes were not terribly acted, then there might be a reason to suffer through, but that game was insufferable. Yes there were many loose ends to tie, but that's because the same irresponsible storytelling was present throughout the entire series.

Image for just a moment, that the bosses you faced had not been magical creatures, or dudes who have extra special bee communicating power, or vampires, or INVISIBLE PEOPLE, but badass dudes with different tactical strategies and weapons, like The End. The whole thing would have had more integrity and been a true masterpiece rather than this convoluted mix of realistic stealth gameplay, fantasy battles and dreadful, pointless convoluted cut scenes.

sigh... They lost me during the third one. Dont get me wrong, the games are amazing, but they could have been so much more if they didnt all take silly plot twists. the S3 plan? Really? So thats why you just repeated all the scenes from the previous game? Thanks alot assholes.

ALT

Even though MGS4 is still the best game I've played in probably a decade, I have to agree that Kojima's story was wild and it could have been cut down a bit.

YotaruVegeta

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under):

Oh, and the republican jab ..... you dirty bastard!

;)

dead_red_eyes

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under):

Bwahahaha!

Yeah, I always start games on hard too. It's the way to roll my man! I do agree with you, that games these days don't seem to be as hard as they used to be. Maybe it's because a lot of developers have dumbed it down to be more accessible/fun?

dead_red_eyes

kojima should put clamps on himself? like...um..nipple clamps? *shudder*

asTer0id

I agree... Kojima does need an editor. I LOVE the Metal Gear story line, for the most part. But there are indeed way too many tangents that make it horribly over-complicated. There is a lot of cheesiness and random coincidences, etc... that take away from the core story which is pretty darn good.

Gervy

So wait... did Judd turn up the difficulty and turn Vita-Chambers off?

Xiatter

yeah Kojima you need to start making the games everybody makes... :P
Me Im glad he does what he does (MGS wouldn't be the same)...

AnhoGrande

@bobcaticus: done

ChuckNorrisKommando

He thinks replaying a level for two hours after failing is fun?

Guess I won't bother buying his next game.

goddessakasha

I agree but I would also like to say that they make little to no sense as well.

BONERJAM

WTF? So a game is considered "easy", just because you're NOT forced to replay an hour of game play after you die? What kind of backward logic is that? So does that mean "Braid" and "Prince of Persia" suck too because you don't "Replay them for an hour", or does that NOT count, because you only role back time?

Seriously Ben Judd. Your mom should have told you this when you were a kid, so I'll tell you now;

1.) DON'T say stupid shit that just flashes in you mind at the time, actually think about it first -- this keeps you from looking like a fool (too late).

2.) Don't drink when you are being interviewed, because you'll look like a fool (again, too late)

jamBot

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): I'll let you try this one on for size and see if I can get any fappage going.

I think Judd's a moron and doesn't deserve to work in the industry. As a matter of fact, because he says stupid shit like this, I'm not going to REARM my Bionic Commando. He will stay dead, locked in the closet of memories, sitting next to GI Joe and My Little Pony (shhh... don't tell).

Here's why.

You know all of the tardos that run around to every review thread on Kotaku and have to 'rate' a game 'X/10'? These are people that don't understand the complexity of games and the complexity of the gamers that are playing them. As a member of a gaming community, that's bad enough, but for a game producer to generalize like that is inexcusable and alienating to potential customers. You can no longer generalize games or gamers. Just because you're working on late 80s IP doesn't mean that the state of gaming has gone back 20 years.

So grow the fuck up, understand your industry, and understand the people you're now selling (or not) your game too. By the way, for my taste, I somewhat agree with Mr. Judd's comments. To position them as generalizations make him worthless to this industry.

Omnimon

I think it's partially the fault of developers, and partially the people playing, that makes games easier. Game devs and companies want to reach more and more people, and to get a broader audience.

The average person isn't used to doing something maybe 2-3 times to get it right, the get VERY easily frustrated, and quit. So they make the game so easy, the few people who do want a challenge, however slight, are disappointed. I got a friend of mine who hasn't played many games before, and they weren't able to finish Braid, or Portal. Well, those two are puzzle games and pretty trial and error, and both aren't very mainstream oriented. But you put someone in front of the newest Metroid or Zelda, both which are said to be easier then the previous installments, to appeal to a broader audience.

Talleh

Disagree on MGS4. I like'em long!

Agree on Bioshock. It was too easy when I realized Vita Chambers have no real penalties for dying.

neo177117

Here are your clamps!

[img.photobucket.com]

AsWater

@Maldron: There are, undoubtedly, many more than 9 hours of cut scene/controlled/scripted character action.

Omnimon

Agree'd that MGS4 cutscene fest was re-f'ing-diculous.

Good game

FunKrusher

Played through the entire MGS series just so I could fully enjoy MGS4,,and I have to agree with him. Even after playing all of the games, reading all of the "story guides" and the MGS databank, I'm still confused as hell on what exactly happened throughout those games. However, I do appreciate that Kojima know's how to come up with a good story, he needs to work on his presentation and the general "understandability" of it for veiwers/players.

PureEgo03

@Lightman: Sure, I love playing Video Games too, and that includes the MGS games. Hell, they're one of the more popular series for a reason.

Hutchinson

He's right on that last part. Gaming has been dumbed down across the board from the early days of 3 lives, death = start at beginning of level, and limited/no saving capabilities.

Definitely required more skill.

Cocytus

I agree.

And by "I agree" I mean I do not agree with a single word you say Ben.

Stick to making fun ports of NES titles with silly laughable stories.

You're not in the big leagues yet my friend. Only Levine and Kojima can pretend they know what they're talking about ;)

sascha23

@Ping5000: Seriously. I actually came to hate the phrase "In other words ... "

If it can be said in a more simple manner why not just say it in that way? No one talks in such psychobabble!

I blame the Matrix Reloaded.

emorottie

@mace89: I'm sorry, could you be more generic?

@Hutchinson: Popularity? I guess The Sims: IKEA or whatever the hell its called is a great game by your standards too.

Lightman

it would be easy to dismiss this guy as a blowhard if Bionic Commando: Rearmed wasn't so damned AWESOME- i guess the real evidence will show up when the new Bionic Commando finally ships (the game definitely has my attention, i will admit).

not very tactful, though :(

laser beams

His wrods are wise :)
I'll try a boss fight 100 times if I can restart immediately, but I'll give up after five of six tries if I have to redo a long level

Metal_Slug_Solid

Or maybe it is the right way to do it, cause as gamers get older and have shit like, say, jobs and families and social lives, they don't want to have to go back and drill at something for an hour over and over and over again.

MPSai

dear ben whatever:

fuck off ;)

but really, kojima has his own vision, let him achieve it.

pandafresh

@laser beams: Too many people equate "tact" with "sugar-coating". I like this guy's particular wording and he speaks the truth. I love the story too but the best stories don't needlessly reiterate every point it makes twice-over.

I'm certain if the characters spoke more realistically and only said what they had to say once that the cutscenes may have been cut by a good 1/3. ;)

So in other words ... the story is top-notch, but the execution is flawed. ;)

______

And indeed Bioshock is just too easy. Becoming God within the first few hours is a given if you're like me and search every nook and cranny. It's only hard if you rush through the game. :P

emorottie

BioShock was easy as Hell, I don't care what anybody says. That's what people want. They want to play through it. They want to die once or twice.

Exactly. Gears of War? Great game. Lots of fun. Enjoyed it a lot. Incredibly easy. Halo? Same thing. Assassin's Creed? Yawn... Rainbow 6: Vegas? Was crippled by the "hide and heal" mechanic. I miss the highly tactical Rogue Spear. I don't mind a bit of Arcade-style action, I love my Quake series! But why has the super-tactical completely disappeared? I blew through Quake 4 within 2 days. 2 days! RtCW 2 days on medium, 5 on hard. Gears of War on Insane in 3 days. 3 days on the hardest difficulty!

I'm sorry, but the vast majority of today's games are way too easy. Go play some of the harder NES games, like Alpha Mission and then play some of the modern games. The original Prince of Persia? That game was hella hard! Nowadays, it's like watching a movie. Sink 8 hours into a game, and you beat it easy as pie. That's lame and treats games as some kind of repetitive, disposable entertainment experience rather than a form of entertainment that provides challenges and skill progression from the participant.

stupid_mcgee

@stupid_mcgee: - "Gears of War? Great game. Lots of fun. Enjoyed it a lot. Incredibly easy."

My thoughts exactly. When I played it on Insane the first time, I thought to myself ... "you've got to be kidding me, this is supposed to be insane, it's the same as the normal mode!" Fun game tho!

@stupid_mcgee: - "Rainbow 6: Vegas? Was crippled by the "hide and heal" mechanic. I miss the highly tactical Rogue Spear. I don't mind a bit of Arcade-style action, I love my Quake series! But why has the super-tactical completely disappeared?"

It's sad that the super-tactical games have all but disappeared. To me, Rainbow Six: Ravenshield was the the last great tactical game. When Ubisoft released Rainbow Six: Lockdown ... I nearly had a fucking heart attack. They threw everything that was good about the series, out the window, and then shot it to death, then burned the remnants to ashes.

dead_red_eyes

And we are supposed to take the words of a drunkard as truth?

I am just ashamed that he does not have two pitchers in his hand. He only has one!

Bad American, bad!

NintendoFanBoy64

....oh and while I'm venting..Hideo? Tear ducts are on the inside of the eye, near the nose. Every last crying cutscene (..and there were a lot of them) had tears defying gravity and heading straight for the cheeks.

No complaints on the bra-less future though. That's all good.

DONAR

And yeah, Hideo Kojima needs to shorten things. Every time I play a metal gear game I get to a point where I want to save, and then a 20-30 minute cutscene starts up right then and I have to wait before I can save, or skip it and miss story or, exit without saving and have to do it all over again. people have lives. they have other things they need to do, they don't always have time to sit through cutscenes. You should have a "View last cutscene" button in the menu or something.

mordennight

So not true. I think checkpoints and the like are what make a lot of difficult games playable. There's nothing people hate more than investing hours of their life into something only to have to do it all over again several more times. Most people would quit if they played for two hours, died, and ten had to start an hour and a half back. People will get bored quickly of doing the same thing over and over again. Now if there were several different ways to play through that hour and a half, that'd be different, but there's generally not in games, they're largely still a very linear entertainment medium.

mordennight

strongly disagree. metal gear solid 4 was excellent, it was fun, and the cutscenes only increased the fun and greatness of the game. also, bioshock was easy, but very annoying because it was really easy to get lost. good game though.

thedarkmarc