@WDYC:
I believe that in Japan, they would not be affected. But if this thing were to go through, then the infringing technology would not be allowed to be sold in the USA. Europe and the rest of the world would be fine. I think Canadadians like myself would lose though as if USA lost Wii rights, why would anyone care about us?

iiqulo

@popadophalis:
Still not the most successful console ever.

DustySword

I want nothing more than to have sony given a better chance out there this generation. I feel that the Wii is like the old Atari 2600, full of crap with a few great titles(remember with no 3rd party liscensing rules on the 2600 there were gazillions of games-that is why if even half of a percent of them were good, we would still find tons of great games) Unfortunaltey I find the amount of great games on the Wii staggeringly small. I would wish it a death as it deserves it more than the dreamcast. BUT I don't like losing my Marios and Zeldas and Metroids and whatnot-SO I wish the Wii the best of luck.

iiqulo

@AokiShinya: Yes, snigger. Seems you Americans say "snicker" instead.

[en.wiktionary.org]

Luke Plunkett

Whoops.

AokiShinya

Snigger?

AokiShinya

@DoomDoomDoom: Thats a real word.It mans awkward or broken laugh.

NoBullet

@MyLittlePwny: Theoretically then, Homedics should be able to sue Nintendo too! :)

@SsLordMagus: ...continue to feel the wrath of their own short comings? Or officially announce this console generation with a "win" for them? >_<

But in all seriousness, how can these lawsuits really be given much merit these days?

XRFlip05

although i would not want this to actually work, i would love to see the gigantic rifts it causes the video game industry as much as they would suck for gamers.

soccerdrew17

Too bad this is going to take forever to go through the court system and by the time they finally figure out what the hell to do with the Wiimote, if Nintendo is found guilty, then Nintendo will have already used their Gajillion moneys to put a new Wiimote on the shelves that doesnt infringe.

Doubt we will be seeing all Wiimotes removed like that, but its amusing to think about. It would be even funnier if it happened.

Neer'mo

What?! How the hell this happen?! Isn't the Wii developed in Japan where else that a lot of Japanese done the developing in their own idea by scratch, do not pay attention to outsiders trying to copying these barely existent company like this Hillcrest?? Plus, a lot cannot read fluently in English. =/

Shachihoko

I say the patent means nothing, and Nintendo will go home none the lesser from this lawsuit.

Strong Arm

What I don't fully understand is why the lawsuits, seriously why? For Nintendo and Sony at least and as far as I'm informed the hardware comes from Japan, you can't infringe on a patent while in another country can you? The US has no hold on that kind of things outside it.

I don't know because I'm not from the US but I can't fathom why something clearly thought outside the country can be infringing a patent from another country unless there is a international patent system I'm not aware of that the US controls.

WDYC

@Duoae: They still have a product in the marketplace that could have similar technology. This doesn't seem like a patent trolling case, unlike that controller guy.

KingBroly

ahhh run from your lives.

zkotaku

Kind of tired of these vague or very broad and general descriptions in patents. Makes you wonder how any of them go through the process of being approved. And it's sad how many 'companies' are coming out this gen to sue either Sony or Nintendo. Funny thing is, all these so called 'infringements' are based on very vague or very broad and general patents...go figure.

SlashZaku

that would be a serious blow for nintendo and microsoft would...

SsLordMagus

But Hillcrest aren't even in the console market. Nintendo aren't stealing any of their revenue. I think that patents should be made to be very specific in their application. As they stand they're just too vague and if the company doesn't get into the/a particular market segment within, say, 5 years of filing the patent then that part gets revoked.

Duoae

"Snigger"? Cutting it kinda close there, huh Luke?

Still think that companies are just trying to cash in on Nintendo's success.

DoomDoomDoom

My inner Nintendo hater would love to see the Wii get slashed and burned by a patent. This would make for an interesting case study in international patent law if indeed a trial were to proceed.

Altersparck

Sony should sue them for using "HōME"

:)

MyLittlePwny

This has just gone from "money chasing screwheads" to "serious legal action". N will probably just pay a hefty settlement and be done, but what if they are ordered to stop selling the things in the US?

The ebay traffic would become astounding!

crashlanding

Imagine that. The most successful console ever being cut off at the knees by a patent...

popadophalis

@Luke Plunkett: Lol. I've used snigger now and then. I know it just means to chuckle or grin. I'm american and I think snicker just sounds like the candy bar.

Netnavi

@WDYC: @Shachihoko:
Actually yes, if a company wishes to market a product in the US (and especially in the case of companies that register a legal corporate division in the US) they must abide by US patent law.

A company that has researched a technology or invention and been awarded a US patent for it has rights to defend their IP against foreign companies that attempt to market an infringing product in the US.

If this protection did not exist, then a company (US or otherwise) that had invested the resources needed to develop the patented idea/invention could have their work taken and produced by competitors from other countries and marketed in the US. This would greatly inhibit the development of new technology, since the potentially huge cost of R&D could no longer be recovered due to competitors that did not spend such money and are thus capable of undercutting on price.

It happens to be rather irrelevant if the technology was developed independently by the other company - there are plenty of cases where things have been invented twice or more, and the initial patent has still applied. Whoever gets there first wins, essentially.

And this is certainly not unique to the US; Europe, Japan, and most other modern nations have similar legal systems to protect novel technological development. Otherwise their industries would also suffer.

The question now is whether these patents are valid, applicable, and what manner of enforcement is called for in the case that they are. It could be that the patents are invalid for various reasons including prior art, or are inapplicable due to lack of compelling evidence of infringement or other reasons.

I will say that even if the patents are upheld, then most likely nintendo will make an agreement with hillcrest for licensing the technology and paying back fees for already sold devices. This agreement will effectively end the issue, and no block of import would be issued.

I really cannot imagine nintendo would be so stubborn as to allow the licensing issue to keep them from maintaining a presence in the US market.

The_Inquisitor

@iiqulo: You're right, Sony's only chance is if Wii suddenly becomes illega.

Fryfat2

Key language: unless disapproved for policy reasons by the U.S. Trade Representative within that 60-day period.

Given the size and prominence of the market for the Wii, I tend to see this in its future, assuming this case has legs, which it's impossible to tell from the above. This is interesting, academically, but not much more than that.

auronrenouille

I don't understand why the patent office isn't to blame. It's like Nintendo knowingly "copied" all these companies. If you try and patent your own Wii will they just let you, knowing that Nintendo will end up suing you too? Why even have patents then?

idrawrobots

@Luke Plunkett: Thanks. I'll play it safe and keep saying snickers for now.

AokiShinya

@Luke Plunkett:
:O

DustySword

@KingBroly:

Oh ok that makes sense. Nice call KingBroly.

bird1988

@bird1988: An investigation is just as good as an indictment, which is nothing. But this case does have merit.

KingBroly

@bird1988:

ah sorry i meant "sad" day.

bird1988

I think hillcrest will win this case, if the ITC is giving this a full investigation. It would be a good day for Nintendo if they found out they used patented technologies.

bird1988

@Netnavi: I'm with you. I've lived practically my entire life in the US(western states), and I may use, or hear used the word "snigger" on occasion - usually to denote a quiet laugh of sarcasm or derision - I can't think of a time I've used the word "snicker" for such a purpose.

While I am obliquely aware of that meaning of "snicker" I would be inclined to relate it to delicious smoked peanuts, caramel and nougat covered in chocolate...

The_Inquisitor

@popadophalis: WHAT?

Wii Units shipped:

Worldwide: 30 million

PS2 Units shipped:

Worldwide: 140 million

And I'm pretty sure even the PS2 is the most successful console ever.

I can't see this case being successful, at worst Nintendo will just settle out-of court or something.

MikoKeZ

And this is why the only upgrade gamers ever get is a graphical upgrade.

LuppyLuptonium

@Luke Plunkett:

I think it should be "Marathon" from now on, so as not to confuse the "new speak" world.

rickster999

Wow, I can see this being a real problem from Nintendo, being as cash-starved as they are. It's not like they'll be able to simply throw huge quantities of money at the problem and have it go away.

Ah. Apparently, it's very much like that.

BritBloke916

Before jumping to Nintendo's defense because it is "made in Japan", check out japanese patent law where it concerns foreign companies. They are brutal and are designed to allow japanese companies every advantage over foreign ones.

Voodoo77

@Voodoo77: Good point, Mclovin'

cio

Unless they're required to forfeit all profits earned with the violating technology.

Then they won't have any money.

Caowyth

I didn't realize motion sensing technology was anything new, still, I'd love to see some of those nintendo profits spread around.

outofreach

No biggie, the change under Iwata's car seat should be enough to pay whatever fine Nintendo may have to pay.

Antiterra

plot by microsoft? maybe.. i dont trust them at all ..but this doesnt affect canada's wiis and the fanboys down south are pretty harsh on the wii so i dont give a damn...

Kuririn

Old news. In any case, shouldn't these companies sue each other first, how many try to claim a piece of the Nintendo pie so far? But they all go for the bigger fish first ;)

Agnates

Speaking of which, whatever happened with that lawsuit that tried to have the controllers banned due to the analog sticks?

Vyse24

Fuck you Hillcrest... that's all I can say >:(

apu95

Hrm, if they had a real complaint, they should have brought it up earlier in the system's lifetime. They are looking for maximum profit here.

That said, I'm not sure if Nintendo is a "fighter". They might settle, perhaps for an amount more than the patent is really worth.

@Luke Plunkett:
Now click on the part that says "sounds like" and look at that list. There's your reason why nobody here would say that. It's too easy to mishear.

Akin

....erm...... they're not asking for money outright.

All Hillcrest wants is a cease and desist order. Nintendo doesn't get to sell the Wii here anymore if they lose.

sunshine06

I haven't had a chance to see the patent in question to look at what's being claimed and what's "infringing," but more times than not, it's just a case of the language being VERY broadly interpretted against whatever it is in question to see if it'll remotely read on the claim language.

I'll have to say it's hard for an examiner sometimes, cause you only have so much time to get these things looked at and worked on, and if it's not out there already in any form during the filing time, it'll get approved.

It's not like every app is getting approved, there are over 7 million patents approved total out of the billions received.

Ryguy226

@WDYC: thats the thing. They aren't infringing on an international patent, the patent was held in the US. The US to protect ITS entrepreneurs (in the same way tariffs, etc, function) have a law established that if a foreign product infringes on a US patent that there must either be a settlement between the two parties or the item will not be allowed for import. This, ideally, protects the US entrepreneur from losing money to a foreign "duplicate" product. However, as most have said the problem is the patents are so very vague that you run into case situations like these where the two companies aren't even in the same related field.

johnwonderbread

Patent reform is an issue that needs more attention than it currently receives. Not just because of this, but because of things like patenting page up/down.

StupidDufus

@sunshine06: Also, keep in mind that Hillcrest's product and Nintendo's product fill two different roles, and Hillcrest themselves stated at a convention demonstration booth that they weren't concerned about the Wii.

Tiber

@sunshine06: A cease and desist order is a common tactic for patent trolls (I'm not calling Hillcrest trolls though, since they actually put developed a product). If the defendant can't sell the product, the trolls have more leverage, since the only way the defendant can even sell the product is with the troll's approval. So a C&D is actually used to get more money.

@Ryguy226: I'll link to my comment on the previous chapter, which has more information, and a link to the patents.

Tiber

Funny thing is I actually interviewed with those assclowns a while back. They're the types of guys that give tests on polymorphism, design patterns, prototyping, etc OVER THE FUCKING PHONE. I kept thinking 'don't you guys just make some set-top box software or some shit'? Glad I didn't follow up.

ifrit

main problem with the us patent system is you can patent vague ideas of future possible products and when someone else actually produces a similar product, you go after them. there are companies that exist to just patent ideas and collect money when others (usually unknowingly) use those ideas. that's what all those bullshit 'patent your inventions' infomercials are about. the entire system is a mess and should be restructured from the ground up.

moominsean

@iiqulo: Wow, digging at the Wii *and* the 2600. One troll for the modern gamers, and one troll for the retro gamers!

Rebochan

@popadophalis: That would be funny :D

Chopper_Mike

Well since I bought the last game for my Wii that I will probably ever buy (Smash Bros.). I really don't care what happens to the Wii now. Nintendo took my heart and stomped on it. It's Gamecube all over again.

TwilightKing

@KingBroly:
They still have a product in the marketplace that could have similar technology. This doesn't seem like a patent trolling case, unlike that controller guy.

Yeah, they have a product in the overall marketplace but not the console space. I'm not saying this company is a patent troll but in reality your patent should only cover a specific configuration or implementation but many are written in such a way that they're overly vague.

Imagine if i held the patent to being able to push a pen tip down and hold it there by using a spring mechanism. There are plenty of non-pen applications of this that could be considered to be held under the patent if it's vague enough.

The thing that gets me is that one reason why the patent system doesn't work is that there is no easy way of searching for an appropriate patent - and don't point me to the USPTO or similar offerings, i've had to do searches for a patent that my boss was writing. They should get google or another big search company onto the case (in an official capacity) to enable ease of searching and if a new patent is filed that has similar terminology or covers a similar field/application then it would be quickly flagged up and checked with the previous ones. There should also be an implementation period were if nothing is produced from the tech that the patent should become public property - i.e. everyone can use it.
I bet that'd never happen though since they like the income of having to pay continuously for a patent.

Duoae

@Tiber:

Thanks, as a patent examiner I'd like to see the claims in question and see, from a stand point of another exminer in that field, whether these claims have merit and would be broadly read on it. This was probably in another art unit other than the one I work in, so we'll see how far I can intepret it.

@moominsean:

It's unfortunate, but that's how it seems to work most of the time. But it also has to fall within enablement, they can't just try to go after an idea broadly enough, they have to prove somehow what they have actually would work if there is an issue within the spec.

Ryguy226

Patent law is now proving to do the exact opposite of what it was made to do... to encourage the evolution of technology by insuring that it is profitable to make new technology.

Its a shitty day when something in the mass market is cut down by patent trolling. And some concepts really don't deserve patents.

DimensionWarped

I'm extending my own three-dimensional pointer device to Hillcrest.

Zero_Beat

M yquuestion is how can nintendo infringe on a patent when the wii mote was already granted its own patent in the us for it?

majortom1029

@Altersparck:Of course it would. That also means any points you present are rolled in bias and should be ignored.

Foxstar Sixtail

Did Nintendo just not check to see if anything in their console was patented before they released it? Because they can't ALL be scams. Sure there are some, like the guy who made a few after the Wii's release about motion control.

Why is motion control such a big deal? Is there a patent on buttons and wiring and electricity now? There should be some things that just is free domain.

Talleh

@Foxstar Sixtail:

As opposed to all your pro-Nintendo bias 99% of the time?

Pot meet kettle ... nice coat of black there, it says!

EnigmaNemesis

@EnigmaNemesis:I debate. I don't live with tunnel vision or blinders on. If you can call that bias, then I can call your pro-Sony "Can do no wrong, ever" stance bias too, EN.

Foxstar Sixtail

@EnigmaNemesis:And your one to talk about pot meets kettle, your bias is also clear as your rhetoric has been.

Foxstar Sixtail

@Foxstar Sixtail:

Clearly you missed the point, and that point was, the fact you say his bias should be ignored, when you have much of your own.

I am not calling anyone to ignore anything as you did, but to say a person's comments should be ignored due to bias, one should take a more careful effort in how they present themselves as well.

I never once told anyone they should be ignored to bias. Regardless of how you think I feel towards a company. Which is funny considering I think the big three are all hypocritical pussies.

EnigmaNemesis

@EnigmaNemesis:I guess I did, but when you state right off the bat. "I hate Nintendo thus anything I say about them should be taken with grain of salt." what else is there? I don't hate Microsoft or Sony, hell I own everything current.

Bias taints everything. And it's childish to say. "I've love to see Nintendo die over it." This isn't GameFAQ's.

Foxstar Sixtail

@Foxstar Sixtail:

I agree there ... I would NOT want Nintendo to die over this.

It would be maddening to the game industry ... while I don't 100% agree with the direction they choose, from a gamers perspective (I clearly get it for a financial perspective) ... I don't want to see something I grew up with destroyed, when they are a key portion of the industry.

EnigmaNemesis

@EnigmaNemesis:Aye. Sorry for the early snap at you. Rough day and these topics always make me wish Brian would switch on the invite only switch. I remember back when it was, watching your debates as a lurker was good stuff.

Foxstar Sixtail

if i was hillcrest i wouldn't stop the importation of wii's, i would just take heavy royalties from each wii sold and let them keep selling and just kinda be like a silent partner. but i'm not sure if they can do that in this case. but i would try.

INDIGOVENOM

@johnlucas:While I don't always agree with EN and have gotten into some harsh pissfights in the past, he always states a point, it just takes a little time and some calm civil discussion to see it.

Foxstar Sixtail

@Foxstar Sixtail: Who bothers talking with EnigmaNemesis? He just likes to hear himself argue for argument's sake.

This will fail and Hillcrest Labs will be sorry they ever brought this patent against Nintendo. Something tells me it will come down to date of patents. I hope that patent law is reexamined and overhauled as the result of all of these suspect claims.

By the way, everyone's biased. No human being can escape it. The question is how much can we control it to be able to see another side of the story? The only thing I can see about Hillcrest is that unlike that farce Anascape at least Hillcrest has made something.
John Lucas

johnlucas

@Foxstar Sixtail: Your opinion is pretty binary, Fox. You mean I can't despise how Nintendo's abandoned its loyal customers but still be able to appreciate how they've managed to create a market all their own?

From the business end of it, what Nintendo's done is brilliant. They didn't so much upend the arms race Sony and Microsoft have been fighting, but instead left it and created a new market in which they have sole proprietorship. Pretty amazing, right?

Unfortunately, to woo that new market meant shedding their baggage, which in this case meant current and former Nintendo loyalists. (I'm assuming you're of the "current" variety, given your rabid defense of the Wii. I'm a former loyalist myself, having since left that camp when the N64 launched.)

As for the case study, that will be made in the real world, where opinions are allowed to range between pro and con, unlike here on the Internet where the slightest deviance from one opinion or another results in infantile, slavish fanboys screaming from the rafters.

Altersparck

@Altersparck:Nope, I've been playing on Nintendo systems from the launch of the NES on. And again, Nintendo hasn't shed anyone, they are doing the same exact thing that they were doing in 1985, people just think otherwise.

Foxstar Sixtail

@Altersparck: I disagree. I've been playing Nintendo games since the NES days and I don't feel the least bit abandoned by the Wii. This is because Nintendo has already put out the games I expect from them. I also enjoyed my N64 and GC for the same reasons.

So please, remember that you point of view is not absolute. You are what is called the bitter "core," you abandoned Nintendo generations ago but expect them to continue to cater to your wishes even as you cone tinue to not buy their products.

EmeraldDragon

Forgive the double post, but I do praise Nintendo's business model, however. They know where the money and consumers are. "Core" gamers are no longer there and they've moved on. For realizing this, Nintendo deserves whatever praise they get.

Doesn't stop me from feeling sorry for Nintendo fanboys who haven't realized this, though.

Altersparck

@EmeraldDragon: I've long since given up on Nintendo making any games that I want. Nowadays, I merely lament how those "core" gamers who have stuck around are getting the shaft. They wait months and months for a gamer "for them" and instead get Wii Music. It's pretty shit way to treat your long-timers.

Altersparck

@Altersparck: Why is it so easy to forget that Nintendo put out their core games and in record time?

EmeraldDragon