I believe this is what industry veterans refer to as "a bad decision."

Does Not Equal (ダズノット)

Okay, serious question. I have a Wii and a PS3, but obviously, most of my RPG gaming is done on my DS or playing a console from the previous generation.

I have zero interest in Blue Dragon or Lost Odyssey, but outside of that, is it worth picking up a 360 Arcade so I can play RPGs, or should I just let things filter through the multi-platform wire while keeping myself busy on a handheld?

Note: I have Gamefly, so this will be a $200 purchase with almost no games paid for, except for maybe Tales of Vesperia :-) Are there other costs I need to worry about if I get one? (I won't play online, most likely; I don't play online often enough to merit the cost)

mjn328

"RPG's are the only games that sell on the 360 in Japan, let's not release the biggest RPG of them all here, no let's not do that".

Shane86

@Spartan1308™: Why try to sell something that won't sell enough to cover the cost of Multi-disc. It coming to PS3 the Japanese will most likely buy it for ps3. Multiplat games sell much better on PS3 in JApan than on xbox.

Ryosukekun

I'm pretty sure Sony may have some deal with Square Enix to have either full or timed exclusivity for Final Fantasy XIII.

Either that, or does Square Enix think that the PS3 sales in Japan will be enough? Meh. I just want to play the damn game already. Enough with this kooky platform mumbo jumbo I say!

Saint Anima

Fable 2 is not very popular in Japan. I think the sweet spot for Japan is JRPG no american RPGs.

Ryosukekun

Of course don't need to release because they are going to want to use 1 bluray disc for PlayStation 3 FFXIII. Japan consumers want to use the best electronics.

zkotaku

@Spartan1308™: However those costs would be extremely minor as SE will already have Japanese voice and text for the game from the PS3 version and will have the game full ported to the 360. SE would only need to apply the Japanese voice and text to the 360 version and they would have more sales. It seems unlikely that SE won't do this. They probably just wouldn't announce it until after the PS3 version is launched.

Spartan1308™

Maybe he means they have no plans to "help cover dev costs and marketing" to have it released in Japan.

Spartan1308™

That list of RPGs made me feel a bit content with my 360 purchase.

PS: I don't own a ps3.

spectralpulse

I like how they make it sound like they can do it, but are simply choosing not to.

"We've also decided that Little Big Planet doesn't really meet our standards, so we'll let Sony have that one."

Moonshadow101

We meaning Square Enix in cooperation with Xbox Japan?

Jack Tretton said it, and if I remember correctly, it was also backed up by a press conference with S-E.

DolemiteToTheMax

They plan on Fable II stirring the Japanese croud? I wonder what will happen with that.

[ZTF]

@You Are My Friend!: By the time the 360 port is done, everyone who wanted to play the game in Japan will be done with it and wont care for the 360 version.

Deus_EpS

Is this a surprise to anyone, really? Sony and Square have repeatedly stated the game's going to be PS3 exclusive in Japan. If anything, Sony probably snapped up those rights immediately with a huge check the second Yoichi Wada stepped on stage at E3 as a defensive measure.

Archaotic

I still think MS will fund it just to piss Sony off.
No plans now, but they still have plenty of time to change their minds.

Tyrannical

I not entirely sure what's the point of this. To my understanding, Square wanted more of a presence in the US (and EU) market, so they decided to make a port of FFXIII for the 360, what I don't understand is, if you're already spent on making the port why not just release it in Japan as well? You've already done the job.. Do you not want more money?

You Are My Friend!

I think they really dont give a damn about FFXIII in Japan for the 360. I think they know that on home turf, the Japanese will opt for the PS3 version of the game outright, making Microsoft's investment a complete waste of their time and money, and Squeenix's time and resources and money too. That, and i dont think they want Sony fanboys killing themselves over this.

In all honesty, i dont put it past Microsoft to grab this for Japan if they cared. Look it all the rest of the previously Sony exclusives...

Deus_EpS

@[ZTF]: Good idea. I wasn't planning on picking it up right away--I have so much to play just for Wii, DS and PS3 this fall/winter that I wouldn't have time to even use it much--but by the time I can I'll have a better idea of the 2009 lineups for both consoles.

mjn328

Not really a surprise, if you ask me

Ahsayuni

@Spartan1308™: I wish it had a USB charge, but so it goes. I already bought one for my Wiimotes, so I'm not averse to it.

If I wanted to download games from the 360 equivalent of the PSN and Wii Shop, would I need a Live account, or is that for anyone?

mjn328

@mjn328: Wait until TGS at least. See what both consoles have in store in terms of upcomming games.

[ZTF]

@mjn328: If you aren't going online, not playing BC titles and don't care about DLC/demos/video marketplace then you'll be fine w/the $200 unit. You will either need rechargeable batteries or the play and charge kit.

Spartan1308™

@mjn328: yeah i real passion about tales I love the series as well, but Star Ocean ...... uh nah star ocean 3 left a sour taste in my mouth.

blackpanther25

@blackpanther25: Tales is the killer, along with Star Ocean 4. I want to play those games pretty badly.

mjn328

@muu: MGS as a series was never OMGWTF popular in Japan so its no indication of how well FF will do there.@muu:

Deus_EpS

@You Are My Friend!: Localization of the PS3 version will not take long. IIRC, past FF games took like 6-8 months, usually being released in the summers over here where the Japanese versions got a winter release the previous year. Porting may add another 6 months to the timetable putting the North American version of this game for both platforms almost a year or more after the Japanese one. So, i expect this between Winter 2010 and Spring 2011. And yes, this is because of the porting process.

Of course im pulling the numbers for the porting outta my ass. It could be we get this game in summer to winter 2010, but thats hoping Sony pulls a fast one and money hats SE into releasing a perfectly finished PS3 version early....which is what im rooting for

Deus_EpS

@muu: unfortunately japs for some reason at into online gaming unless its a mmorpg. Cause for me i just keep playing mgo

blackpanther25

@atomicstrawberry: Well regardless of who does the publishing (and I'm sure the statement itself was carefully worded :D), do you seriously believe that MS wouldn't/hasn't bent over backwards with a vat of lube to make sure Square gets its way? What ever concessions they've made to insure that FFXIII comes to western markets would clearly be made for the Japanese market if not more.

...I mean, just look at the the concessions they made to get MGS4 on the 360 ¬_¬

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@spectralpulse: i wish it would for me too, but unfortunately half of those rpgs on the 360 are boring like blue dragon, lost Odyssey, and infinite undiscovery

blackpanther25

@mjn328: yea u may wanna wait most rpgs that are on the xbox are comin to ps3 like the last remnant and eternal sonata. Then you have white knight which looks insane, but if u wanna play tales of vesperia really bad bad then u could get da 360

blackpanther25

It's questionable how much of a dent FF13 can really make in Japan if/when it's released (MGS resulted in peaked sales for two weeks, followed by a slew of copies being sold for half price in bargain bins -- not exactly the best way to show off your supposed killer app). If the PS3 was kicking ass and chewing bubblegum, it would be a nail in the coffin for other systems, but it's quite apparent that this isn't the case. Whichever way things go it's easy flamebait, but it's not going to change the tides of everything at this point.

muu

@cakeman19: Hm, that is a bit strange, now that you mention it. S-E has been going on and on and on about how they're going to finish the PS3 version in Japan first, then worry about 360+localization. It's almost as if they really wanted to not think about the port until other the PS3 Japan release, to the point where the prod. management team isn't drawing out a timeline and the programmers are putting in whatever they can to get the PS3 one out on time, regardless of how much well it'll port to the 360.

Datheron

Even if it's published by Squenix, I believe Microsoft still produce the discs themselves, which is why 360 publishers don't like to do multi-disc releases, because MS charges them for each disc produced.

atomicstrawberry

@Deus_EpS: I guess I'm missing the link between the translation period and the porting peroid. Game>Translation>Port? They could release the 360 version in japan simultaneously if they did Game>port>translation. And even though the itself will come out later in japan, the gap will be smaller bringing it over since square was gonna wait for the 360 version to be finished anyway.

You Are My Friend!

I see them doing this for a lot of reasons. Obviously they could have a deal with Sony, but I think this has more to do with what's going on in the company.

Now this is only my opinion, but it seems like there's a bit of an internal conflict going on inside squeenix. Toriyama seems pissed that there's a 360 version at all, and Kitase doesn't seem too pleased either. Nomura's always been a Sony fanboy, so that doesn't help. Also, it seems like Wada pretty much gave the programmers the task of putting a PS3 game on the 360 out of nowhere, so they can't be too happy. Yeah, when this game is finally released, I can see a lot more people leaving Squeenix, maybe even a big guy like Kitase.

cakeman19

@mjn328: You can get XBLA games w/a Silver Account, and you can get demos a week after they are put out for Gold subscribers.

[www.xbox.com]

The issue that you'll run into with this is that you're talking about getting the 360 w/out a HDD. The biggest memory unit they offer is 512 mb and it retails for $43 right now on amazon.com. This version only comes w/the 256 mb memory unit. Some XBLA games are now already close to 200 mb from what I recall. If you plan to download more than a couple of the newer games coming out, then you may want to consider the $300 unit that comes w/60 GB HDD. You could also look to ebay for a 20 GB drive if you want to stick to basics. Those were going for around $45 last time I looked. The other major piece that you'll be missing w/the Arcade unit is the component/composite cable(this is packed in w/the Pro unit). You won't actually be able to use HD resolutions w/the composite only cable that comes packed w/the Arcade. That cable is $40 to $50. If you aren't playing online then it won't matter, but the Arcade also leaves out the headset.

Spartan1308™

@atrimus: I can guarantee that you'd be 100% correct.

until.december

i can almost guarentee that had ToV or Infinite Undiscovery been multiplatform games, the PS3 versions would've outsold the 360 version a good 20 to 1 in Japan, and we definitely wouldn't be seeing these spikes in 360 sales. with FFXIII already coming to the PS3 in Japan (way before any prospective 360 version would even hit that region) it would be a waste of Squenix and Microsoft's time and money to even bother with a Japanese version of FFXIII on the 360.

as long as the PS3 version of FFXIII compromised, then i'm all go for multiplatform release.

atrimus

@Ryosukekun: How would it not cover the cost of having multiple discs? That's a goofy argument. DVDs are cheaper than BDs anyway. I'd be interested to know how many DVDs devs can use that would equate the cost of a single BD. I would think at least 2 even considering the additional time needed for pressing. The pressing equipment and discs themselves are still both cheaper. I'd guess that 100,000 or so sales would be plenty to cover the cost of the simple conversion that would be needed and turn a profit. That's $6 million and that is a low estimate for sales of this game even on 360 in Japan.

Spartan1308™

@Deus_EpS: I can see that happening.

I'm just saying it looks like it would be worth it to release FFXIII 360 in japan, since they're already porting it. I think the 360's status compared to the PS3 is a little exaggerated.

You Are My Friend!

@muu: yeah, unlike MGS, FF always sells MORE in japan than US or EU.

Alex_Mexico

@muu: MGS has always been much better in sales in the Americas and Europe due to the nature of the game (and MGS4 more than ever since its westernized control scheme).

FFXIII i can guarantee will make a MUCH bigger dent in Japan than MGS4 ever did.

Alex_Mexico

@atrimus: So true. Which really goes to show how brilliant (or actually, really, how much resources Microsoft really has) in trying to penetrate the Japanese market. They're throwing money at the problem (by buying exclusives) and its working. We're going to see spikes in 360 sales, from now to Last Remanent to SO4. Bravo to Microsoft. They committed to a business plan, and its paying off. That's what a good company is suppose to do.

NeVeRMoRe666

@NeVeRMoRe666:
But I hope that you do understand what will happen in the future if they continue to make their business that way...
Throwing money on every problem doesn't solve it.

Garo

I'm looking forward to new games for the xbox , but they are going to have to get better ones in the future.

No doubt last rememenant looks fun , Star Ocean 4 is a Definant buy .Sadly of all the ones that are out for the 360 I was only impressed with Infinite ( and that was hard because it's not that impressive esp from Tri-Ace ) and Lost Oddyssey ( Which I expected to be good based on the team working on it no matter what system it came out on ).

I will probaly buy Tales when it hits the bargin bin because copius button mashing made it feel like a side scrolling action game more then an rpg in the battle system.

Well , I have high hopes for future rpgs of any sort for the xbox at any rate. Heres to waiting on some.

As for fable II , it better be darn good , because Peter isn't making it look/sound any better then the first one.

Disclaimer : I'm not system biased so leave console fanboy comments at the door.

Archaenon

@Garo: Err..So I guess more directly, before I'm off to bed, what I wanted to ask you is what exactly will happen in the future if they continue to make their business this way?

NeVeRMoRe666

@Garo: Well...of course not. But off the top of my head, I don't see how it wouldn't work out. Maybe I'm just a bit tired (its been a long day, my apologies), but how isn't it a good thing? These mega greedy corporations are shelling out huge dough to win our love. If both Sony and the Wii were doing the same thing and pumping more money into making more games and creating more exclusives to compete with Microsoft, its win win for us all. That is to say, its good because I have all three systems. But I can definitely see why it would be bad if you only owned one. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, its good to see a company working its ass off as oppose to others who are complacent with their market shares *cough Wii cough PS3 (well...ish LBP!)*

Actually, I don't even know what I'm saying. I'm going to bed. I just think its a good move on Microsofts part business wise.

NeVeRMoRe666

how is four titles a slew of RPGs? for that matter none of those games have gotten excellent or even very good ratings.

Xtreme_Hindu_Cow

@mjn328: Lost Oddyssey is actually worth it....that's really about it for the 360.

Tales is alright if you like button mashing in the battle system. Akin to that of Star Ocean , just with no or little control as to what they do.

Don't feel bad , I've bought a slew of 360 games , I've only managed to keep one game w/o eventally trading it in and that's lost oddyseey. I'm playing Infinite Undiscovery at the moment. I highly doubt it will ever get replayed so I'm trading it in asap.

Archaenon

@NeVeRMoRe666:

Throwing money at every problem doesn't put the company into good light. It's not working it's ass off it's the easy way that only MS is capable of. Where do you think comes all the hate against MS? It has the same origin as the hate against a spoiled rich kid that buys everything it want's, even "friends". Maybe this doesn't sound very important to you at the moment but it's bad PR and it will take its toll.

Garo

@Garo: Hey, I can totally understand where you're coming from. It could potentially bring bad PR, but at the end of the day, whether we like to admit it or not, doesn't everyone want to be that spoiled rich kids best friend?

:)

Just food for thought.

Even if Microsoft has the worse rep in the world, as long as it has enough exclusives to keep the masses happy, they have no choice but to pick up that console to play it on. Nintendo has or had a tremendous reputation, but if they're not putting out/having enough exclusive games, gamers (as we have already seen by their responses on kotaku) are going to bitch.

To be perfectly honest, I don't really believe all the bullcrap I'm spewing out. I actually tend to agree with you. No one wants to see exclusives. However, from Microsofts standpoint, this is the perfect way to penetrate the Japanese market, and its working. You use money to make money, so they say...

NeVeRMoRe666

@NeVeRMoRe666:
"doesn't everyone want to be that spoiled rich kids best friend?"

Maybe, but the moment the spoiled rich kid stumbles and falls everyone will be teabagging it. That mob mentality is very hard to control. Just take a look at Sony: the shiny winner of the last generation. Doesn't look that shiny anymore :/ and they can thank their PR department that was unable to send the right messages to the consumers or better said they have sent the wrong messages.

In my opinion MS should use its money for building up good 1st party studios and a good technical/Q&A department. Both points will increase consumer trust and install base long term.

At the moment their actions seem to have only short term benefits.
The price cut was a very good action that might put Nintendo and will put Sony under pressure.
We will see this holiday season.

Garo

@Garo: Where I think the hate against Microsoft comes from? Forcing Windows onto PC manufacturers, bundling IE with Windows, bloated operating systems, pushing it's own standards (WMA vs MP3, for example), unfair advantage when pushing their own technology (DirectX vs OpenGL), Unstable OS's, and probably, though not limited to, stepping on the internet's geek culture's toe.

Money? Nah. Apple seems to be doing very well and hasn't drawn out the same amount of hate as Microsoft (or M$ AMIRITE?).

Anyway, I digress. Unless someone here is privvy to the backroom negotiations at Namco-Bandai (oh hi, read Luke's post on Macross Frontier for PSP and also, IdolM@ster), we'll never know what deal was done.
On a 1up podcast recently they were curious about the trade-in numbers for Xbox360 in the coming weeks ("play it, finish it, trade it"). I'm curious myself.

And two words: Eternal Sonata.

Gaff

@Garo: but that has always been MS's problem. They have never really been good at 1st party development and in this age of cross platform releases they really need it. They should give themselves some credit for the sales spike but they are so far behind in japan it's laughable. They have a steep hill to climb ...like a 90 degree hill so this talk of building momentum is all well and good but let's face it. Japan has been lost to MS since 360 launched. Mario Kart on DS is still in the top 20 for crying out loud. Japan is Nintendo country...It's a rap.

@NeVeRMoRe666: the day exclusives are no longer made is the day when the industry dies. Exclusives ARE needed and Nintendo is still alive and kicking today because of their exclusives. Don't get it twisted. Wii doesn't compare to 360 and PS3 and we've heard it all before blah blah blah but look at what Nintendo has done. I mean really look at it without the fanboy googles on. Any port that's made on Wii has to be different than the other versions because of the controller. That guarantees their version will have features the others simply can't match. Unfortunately, Nintendo blew it because Wii is so underpowered that it also guarantees that their version is going to look like trash compared to the others but the tactic is sound.

Nintendo learned from the last generation that it doesn't matter if the Wii had the same power as the 360 and the ps3. A lot of people ignored the gamecube not because it was bad tech, but because Nintendo's name was on it. Wii would have suffered the same fate. It would have been dismissed by the "core" gamer and it would have been too expensive for the "casual" gamer even though it would have the same games as the other two, just like Gamecube AND it would have waggle. But make no mistake. It's always been the exclusives that saved Nintendo. I'd never want to play in an industry where there were no exclusives. What's the point of having multiple consoles if none of the games take advantage of said console's features because they're all ports?

Exclusives show console potential, ports don't. It's always been that way.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@Spartan1308™: So at that point it's worth it just to get the Pro rather than the arcade. in case I want to use it in the future. Well that means I'll be waiting even longer for it, I guess...

mjn328

@Xtreme_Hindu_Cow: Metacritic says otherwise.

belo

@blackpanther25: Hush your mouth. Lost Odyssey made my eyes tear a little. *sniff*

Tepoz

@Xtreme_Hindu_Cow:

Because no one else really HAS JRPGs on consoles besides Final Fantasy XIII.

samaine

@belo: As does Johnny Hash and I don't really dig jrpg but I love L.O.

JohnnyHash

@Spartan1308™: Yeah I was thinking the same thing. In the end SE is gonna make the most money if they have it for the 360 in Japan. Why not get it in the hand of anyone that wants it without having to buy a new system? It's not about Sony or Microsoft its about Square Enix making more money to develop more games. Shouldn't that be their goal from the start? Or is it Microsoft that doesn't want it in Japan? I'm getting confused...

Beta @ Random

no no
i think they said they don't have plan because
square wants larger money if they want it to be release in xbox
and japan is the home of sony
so it will anger more people and led to misunderstanding
typical in business

trebors

All I know is it 100% will never come to 360 in Japan. And it wouldn't help anyone if it did, by the way.

If you own a 360 in Japan as a Japanese person, you've bought the console knowing that it was never and still isn't getting FFXIII (where you live), so you won't miss out and shouldn't care.

If you own it outside of japan, good for you, you get the port like all your friends.

360 still gets lots of RPGs, so FFXIII wouldn't help it in that department.

johnnyrippa