I am a stock holder in Activision so this does actually in a small way affect me.

They need to knock that shit off.

The first thing that they should do IS advise him to retain legal council.

Then they should go over how they want to punish him. He *IS* a software pirate by doing all of this above the board they punish pirates and negate the PR hit that the RIAA got.

They are going the for the worst of both worlds if they go after people RIAA style. Even people who agree with the RIAA on piracy hate them for their legal practices. Activision can not waste gamer good will. It would only take one major let down title to destroy their brand if the good will is gone.

This is a really bad idea.

Techguy1138

Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine. He's obviously gotten a lot more than he bargained for and it's his own stupid fault.

e-friend

It's cheaper to steal it at the store which is really sad.

Fabrice

@KaneRobot: The criminal, though, isn't saying what the crime was. Nor the punishment. Just that he, the criminal, feels the punishment doesn't fit his crime. Excuse me if I notice he isn't an impartial party in this and decide not to trust his judgment on what is a just way to deal with his crime.

BStu

OMG! That picture is so cute!

goddessakasha

@Krooeenya:

You do know that bit-torrent is provably the *least* anonymous way to obtain anything over the internet, right? Because of the way the swarm communicates, any and every client is giving a laundry list of identifying information to EVERY peer in the swarm - even after a torrent has been downloaded.

As to your main "argument", that's equally short-sighted. Piracy may have lowered prices of music for the consumer, but the "music industry" isn't going to collapse (even if some major distributors do). PC Gaming on the other hand most certainly doesn't have the same depth to survive since, in the most case, the developers are also the distributors (or distributor funding is the sole financing source for developers... same thing).

So yes, I guess you could argue piracy could accrue some short term gains for consumers if the pirates worked together and closely monitored the break-even point of developers to ensure they don't drive prices down to the point that developers collectively abandon the market entirely for more secure platforms... and I'm sure from your eloquence that's something you're right on top of.

thebigsmoke

Ultimately this case is far bigger then some person wanting to play an Activision game and downloading it. If you read the actual article the guy refuses to admit to exactly what he did and i know if i was getting sued for 100,000 and all i did was download a single copy of call of duty i'd sure as hell tell people instead of beating around the bush and just saying there was wrong doings.

He says the fine wasn't even $100,000 but was still substantial (which substantial could be 100 bucs to a cheap ass pirate). But yet he doesn't provide information on what he values the damages he caused vs how much he makes to even back up the claim they based it on his income.

Ultimately i think Activision found a person who was a lead seeder, or provider online of their title(s) and sued him. Sure they strong armed him but they didn't lie. if he got a lawyer it would cost him more. Activision was in the right to sue him and would ultimately win a court battle making him pay their legal fees, the fine, and his lawyer fees instead of just a steep fine.

I got fined 450 bucs for going 5 mph around a corner on a red light instead of coming to a complete stop first. Fees are ridiculous in order to get you to stop doing them, it's not based on reasonable numbers.

Spoony

@What The Geek: That's not entirely true, though. Games, as a luxury item, have HIGHLY elastic demand. Thus, as the price gets closer and closer to "free", you'll get a lot more people who are interested.

When something is perceived as "free", you're going to get a -ton- of people who take it, because (putting aside things like ethics and legality) why not?

That's where the "potential sale" thing falls short. It assumes that someone who is willing to get something for free is ALSO willing to pay $60 for it if that free version is unavailable, and that's simply not true.

EmpressInYellow

@ninja_warrior:

The link, although disemvoweled, still works. Hey comment overlords, you should disemvowel the links too!

Franklin Comes Alive!

The whiny pirate offers no actual evidence that he was railroaded. Just his perception that he was. He broke the law and is upset at having to take responsibility for that. He won't even acknowledge what he did wrong beyond acknowledging that "there was some wrong doing". I'm sure he's very angry he got caught, but nothing in his complaint suggests that Activision is acting in an inappropriate manner.

BStu

@dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased:

I for one don't plan on buying any of those games, mostly because i'm not a blizzardphile like most and I'm not really into them, but this just seals the deal, honestly. Piracy can be dealt with, but heavy handed legal tactics are not a good way of doing it.

sluissa

I'd support harsh, harsh legal action and such against pirates in place of DRM and other copy-protection foolishness. Instead of spending millions, if not billions of dollars on copy protection, why not just funnel it towards making pirates pay and pay big? If your going to spend the next 20 years paying back Activison or whoever because you made a few K off of selling their stolen IP, you might be a lot less likely to do it. Jail time is a joke for these guys, they go to a cushy jail and get to live off of the taxpayer dole.

Thieves need to be punished. Put their pasty-asses on chain gangs with the drug dealers and armed robbers. Make them spend the next 1-20 years writing checks back to the developer they stole from. But this silly slap on the wrist crap needs to stop.

Foxstar Sixtail

@Lazlo:

No kidding, what is the reason for the disemvoweling on this post?

Franklin Comes Alive!

Pirate a CD/DVD/VG: up to $250,000 fines and/or 5 years in prison.

Kill/injure a construction worker in a construction zone: up to $7500 and 5 years in prison.

1 pirated media > 33 human lives

wat?

(I know it say 'up to'; principal, people, princpial)

Zegridathes

@ninja_warrior:
Acting like all "theft" is equal is not only ridiculous, it's legally incorrect.

(I put "theft" in quotes because, again, that's not what copyright violation -actually- is.)

There is, for instance, a distinction between misdemeanor theft and felony theft.

EmpressInYellow

HE'S NOT A FILE SHARER. People seem to keep forgetting that, and news site passing on the story are doing us all a disservice in not repeating it. While specific data isn't available, the most likely scenario is that these defendants were selling bootleg copies to make money (the idea Gamecyte puts forth that they're being sued for making backup copies for personal use is inane). They knew exactly what they were doing, and that it was both morally and legally wrong. Now they got caught, and boo fucking hoo, they're gonna pay the price.

In that light, these arguments about how they should pay only the retail price on the copies they traded are absurd. There's no concrete way to tell how many were sold, and if you charge the cost of a game for each copy you can specifically track down, these assholes just shrug and go own with profitable little shenanigans, being more careful not to get caught. The only logical, reliable way to stop bootlegging is to look at their income and levy a penalty painful enough to negate any profit the illicit business might have produced; the point isn't so much to reimburse the rightful owners as it is to strongly discourage anyone else from engaging in selfsame practices.

mwoody

@malificusx: If we are going to play a game of "what is serious what isnt" then how about this. A large proportion of murders are committed in revenge by a spouse or partner who has been subjected to abuse on a long-term basis. These are sentenced to life or whatever. Should they? Is murdering a complete arsehole worse than pirating software which in many case's may be helping to pay for drug or people trafficing?

teeps1981

@Balthasar: After thinking about it, he has a point. Where does the supposition of hypothetical sales stop?
The only thing that you can do to the guy is put him in jail and fine him for a set amount. You can't say: He owes us so much in damages, because those damages are incalculable. You'd have to charge him for a potential price * 6 billion though most likely not going to happen, but it's the only way you could extrapolate without going into infinity and actually having a limit

SeraphX2

@Balance_In_Life: I'm not saying they shouldn't go after pirates, but that if they're excessive about it, they might be just causing MORE people to go out and pirate. It didn't work for the RIAA, if you recall.

@ninja_warrior: If you made a small mistake one day and got caught, do you feel like your entire financial future should be ruined because of it? And let's be serious here. This kind of piracy really can't be compared to major crimes where people know they're throwing away their lives as soon as they commit it.

@Spoony Bard: Well yeah, I know that, but it never works. You might stop that one guy, but that's it. You'll either get pirates going on just like before or you will have pissed off people deciding to pirate it out of spite.

Mister_Jack

Funny how that when your product breaks they have you over a barrel and legal action would be redundant, but when you steal from them you are a lost cause(i am not justifying illegal downloading, but making a contrast). Big companies always win.

Strong Arm

@EvilFiek: You have got to be kidding me. Let's see what good ol' Webster has to say about this.

"stealing: to take the property of another wrongfully"

So someone obtains a video game. Something that didn't belong to them. And didn't pay for it. It doesn't matter if he took a retail box or downloaded a torrent.

So how is that not stealing again?

eclipsegryph

@Coxswain: yeah, while their motives might not necessarily be in the right place, i do at least see this a much better solution than, say, what EA is doing, with the whole add DRM then threaten to stop making PC games bit lol. but this is true, i do admit.

uppitycracker

@Krooeenya: Lower prices?

Think youll find it has done no such thing. £15 quid for an album is extortionate. The reason you can buy albums at £10 is bacuase of the retailers taking less profit not the copanies taking less.

Piracy is a crime. For all anyone here knows this guy could have been selling games on the car boot for years and reaping in a fortune without paying taxes. THIS is why Activision have made their claim so high.

teeps1981

@A Pimp Named DaveR:
I'm not sure why your comment got disemvoweled, but I agree with you.

People, pirating is illegal. You can't justify it by saying "But their DRM makes us!!" No it doesn't! You can choose not to buy their game and support the DRM if you don't like it. Two wrongs still don't make a right, and in the long run the pirate is the only one who gets punished for the wrongs. Technically the developers, however stupid it may be, are still obeying the law.

Lazlo

maybe cut off his input devices.

Coxswain

@malificusx:

If you don't see software piracy (or, in other words, software theft) as a "real" crime, then you really can't see other kinds of theft as "real" crimes either!
And, following your line of thought, if I or any other person were to enter your home and strip you of your valuables you would be ok with it... That's what you're saying, right?

henri1kk

@Dragonzigg:

Activision is within their rights. The person downloading illegally is not. Clear cut.

JackB99

@EvilFiek: See, the way publishers look at is this: Every pirated copy is equal to what they refer to as a "potential sale". Let me use the same metaphor I always use when this comes up.

Let's say you're walking by a bakery and you see a pie sitting in front of the bakery. No one else is around, and there's a sign over the pie that says "free pie - take it". Do you take the pie, or go into the bakery and buy a pie? Of course you take the free pie (unless you have some sort of learning disability) and go about your day enjoying your free pie. If you were walking by the bakery and there wasn't a free pie available to you, and you really wanted a pie, there's a fair chance you would have gone in and bought a damned pie. As long as piracy is there, people who might have opted to buy the game otherwise will take the "free pie" instead.

What The Geek

@Mister_Jack: whoa! A disemvowelment...

ninja_warrior

@uppitycracker: point conceded, though I don't exactly see Activision standing up for consumer rights, so I'm not sure why they don't deserve to stand with the rest of the big boys.

Coxswain

@solosith:
Nobody can say that he cost them ANYTHING.
In these cases, some people don't seem to realise that each pirated copy of the game was only a potential sale.
The people who received these pirate copies, in most cases, would probably not have bought the game otherwise.
Why should he have to pay for the sales Activision did not make?

Balthasar

@malificusx:

Poor use of terms. Pirating is a real crime.

JackB99

We should cut off his hands!

(think Aladdin)

Actually, I guess we should cut off his 'net access?

vid3oman64

I'm tempted to buy more Activision products.

JackB99

While it may seem insane to some to pay $60 for a game while you can get it for free, Activision, its staff, and its shareholders are entitled to a profit. Simply put, pirates subtract from profits. It's only natural for Activision to want blood, no matter how "strong-armed" they come across as. Besides, the only other way to combat this is DRM, and we all know how THAT turned out with EA.

It may seem wrong to sue this guy overzealously, but I can see how they would want to monetarily ruin him. Fine him $100,000 and make an example of him because it's hard to go after ALL pirates. It's the same principal as public execution in the old days; show the people what will happen if they break the law, and hopefully they back off.

However, is it fair to that guy? No. He simply just drew the short straw.

FoxyGaz

@KaneRobot: I don't think anyone disagrees the punishment should fit the crime; I totally agree with that.

However; the punishment isn't what this guy is talking about. He hasn't been punished yet. The legal system will decide the fair punishment. What the pirate is complaining about is the extent of what the lawyers think is fair punishment; which doesn't mean shit in court. The judge will decide what is actually punishable.

For example, if you stole from me. I'd demand you be hanged. That's not going to happen of course, but it doesn't mean I can't request the death penalty even if I know it will get lowered to a simple wrist slap.

fourzerotwo

@KaneRobot: Gee, care to clue us in then?

The Wreckard

@fourzerotwo: Piracy is wrong, but heavy-handed tactics like this is more likely than not to turn into a PR quagmire. There are better ways to deal with it than legal threats.

Altersparck

@Mister_Jack: See here is the problem. How many copies of his pirated game fell into the hands of others? What Activision is trying to stop here is the cracking of the game and distribution of the crack afterwards. Everyone who downloads a crack game should understand what they are doing and the consequences if they get caught. I won't defend Activision but they are in their legal rights to go after these pirates.

Balance_In_Life

@Mister_Jack:

And this my friends, is why we're at the place we are now.

THEN DON'T STEAL THE DAMN GAME IF YOU DON'T WANT YOUR LIFE RUINED.

Jesus Christ.

mva5580

These crack legal teams should spend more time putting murders and child molesters behind bars, people who commit real crimes.

malificusx

Won't happen. Never gonna happen. Everyone get off your high horse. When Lich King comes out, you'll still buy it. When Diablo 3 comes out, you'll still buy it. When Starcraft 2 comes out, you'll still buy it. Or, on the other hand, you'll still pirate it. Why waste your breath?

"Ooh, Activision so evil! E-e-e-e-evillll! I'm never going to... oh, hey, new WoW expansion!"

Everyone knows piracy is a crime. No matter how ridiculous it might be, it's still something you can be tried and convicted of. If you so decide to ignore this statement, you get whatever's coming to you. :D

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

I feel software companies should be more like Activision!
They should make an effort to track down serious pirates and punish them in order to set an example for the rest of the guys that illegally download software!
The guy stole software that took a lot of time and money to create and he should be punished for it! What about if they went all-out on this guy and they can probably ruin his financial life?
I say "show 'em how it is"!

henri1kk

I can see them treating someone liek this that hacked a game and supplied it to thousands of people. But a lonely pirate sitting home pirating one game , this seems abit to much, I suspect they are trying to use him as an example.

I don't pirate games, never have, I am just really picky on what I buy and play.

Omniel

@fourzerotwo: I love it when they catch the guy in the act and he's all "Nah, that wasn't me." and the cop says "So there was another four foot ten inch hispanic guy in a black shirt ripped jeans and white sneakers in this alley that we missed?" and the criminal always answers "yes."

I definitely agree - if you do the crime, take it like a man and do the time - don't cry me a river 'cause you got caught. On the other hand, it's a little messed up that a legal system set up to favor the wealthy will decide what sort of "time" this guy does. In that respect, I feel for him. In every other respect, yay - the pirate got caught.

What The Geek

@Mister_Jack:
"No need to get greedy. You're Activision"

Of course they do, They're Activision.

heretrix

Maybe someone should discuss the legal ramifications of copyright with Activision. Surely they can afford to pay Harmonix a fair amount, considering their substantial (unwarranted) income!

Hendrixx

@Coxswain: you did kinda lump activision in with the rest of the offenders, though. i dont keep up on all activision games, but when was the last time a COD game had DRM in it? They seem to have the most effective methods, and going after the actual PIRATES is a hell of a lot more effective and morally justified than punishing the actual consumer.

I personally think that this is a step in the right direction. Of course, the lawyers approach may not have been the most honorable, but then again thats the fault of the lawyer.

uppitycracker

@Krooeenya: Ha! Oh yeah, that's real brilliant. Cover your tracks by expliciting talking about what you do...

ninja_warrior

@Mister_Jack: Obviously, they are trying to set an example.

Spoony Bard

The guy has no right to complain, he got caught red-handed and now has to pay the price.

exkon

@fourzerotwo: (cue foreign guy who just gets sarcasm from Family Guy) Ooohh hoho!

vid3oman64

@Mister_Jack: Piracy is wrong, sure, but it seems pretty stupid to potentially ruin your own life over a 60 dollar game."

Fixed

MartinX

Yh, lt's ll bnd vr nd tk r pnshmnt bcs w'r ll gd lttl cnsmrs. Fck tht, Prcy s gd, prcy s hlthy fr th cnsmr.
Lk t th rcrd ndstry, prcy hs frcd thm t lwr prcs.
ll ths ds s mk sr tk mr ffrt n cvrng my trcks whn dwnld.

[thprtby.rg]

G n, y knw y wnt t.

;-)

Krooeenya

@Rebochan: I think it's fairly safe to assume that Activision's legal team is larger than that of the accused pirate. As such, they'll get the verdict they want, and if they want this kid to get railroaded to make an example of him, it'll happen. The shopkeeper beats the kid to make an example for all to see. It's the same BS the RIAA has been pulling for years. They even tried to sue a networked printer for downloading music. You heard me, a printer.

What The Geek

It does depend on the level of piracy. The pirate should atleast pay up what he owes. Activision's strong arming really annoys me. I agree with level-headed punitive measures but not how the company is approaching this. Anyone who thinks such behaviour is warranted really deserves to be on the receiving end, come back whining and then get rebuffed when it comes to asking for sympathy.

Chupakun

@Rebochan: I didn't say it was okay. Way to put words in my mouth.

Coxswain

Is it legal to tell someone that if they hire a lawyer, they will be fined *more*? Don't all people have right to counsel? And how do they have the right to fine this guy based on his income? (I thought only colleges/financial aid lenders, oould do that...)

But yeah, hearing how this guy's getting reamed doesn't really change my perspective on the issue. I pay cold hard cash for my games, as it is (buying used screws developers enough as it is).

Keep it clean, dude, and you'll run into none of these problems...

dae_giovanni

@What The Geek:

I agree with you that the punishment should always fit the crime. However, it just find it funny when criminals complain of being treated harshly.

Have you ever seen an episode of COPS? In 21 years of it being on the air, I don't think I've ever seen a criminal NOT claim they're being treated unjustly. My favorite thing about watching criminals get busted or any person caught doing wrong get caught is they always scream foul play.

fourzerotwo

@Mister_Jack: I don't agree at all. He BROKE THE LAW. Whether what the person stole was a $.05 product or a $5,000 product, he BROKE THE LAW, there is a reason why we have laws.

No excuses, he deserves what is coming to him.

ninja_warrior

In Finland they give out speeding fines based on the income of the person (kinda makes sense, like a millionaire wouldn't care about a $50 fine while a single income family might)

I'm glad that pirates are being owned.

nornicle

Going after pirates? Fine.

Browbeating them with legal strong-arm tactics outside of the courtroom? Low, low behaviour.

litrock

@TheGuilty1: No, the fines go that high because only charging him for the cost of the games is a slap on the wrist and not worth the time to even prosecute. It's called a "punishment" for a reason.

Rebochan

@fourzerotwo: I think this comparison is lacking. When you are stealing from a shop, you are stealing "real" goods and the shop owner has a real loss because of that.

On the other hand, if you pirate a game, you aren't really making the company lose money because, just because you downloaded a game, it doesnt mean you would've bought it. So the 60$ aren't real damage, but more like "virtual", "possible" damage.

EvilFiek

@Rebochan: ....tee hee. +15 nerd points @ Rebochan. :P

vid3oman64

You guys saying "boo hoo, he gets what he deserves" have zero concept of the legal process. Get a clue.

As someone above said, the punishment should fit the crime.

KaneRobot

ha ha what comes around goes around.

sargemat

@Coxswain: I like how just lumped Activision in with the faceless corporate machine to try to make your point stronger. "It's okay if they break the law, those evil money-makers deserve it!"

Rebochan

@solosith: You charge him for whatever he pirated and maybe a REASONABLE amount of punitive damages. No need to get greedy. You're Activision. You don't need to be excessive.

Mister_Jack

@vid3oman64: Poogle. It's a Poogle.

...I think I may cry.

Rebochan

@What The Geek: The "punishment" is not Activision's to mete out in the first place. They can threaten him with anything they want, but there is this little thing called "the legal system" that actually handles it.

This is more like a shop owner telling the guy he'll beat him to a bloody pulp, but not actually following through. You can't have more sympathy for the criminal because they wouldn't have been the brunt of the threat in the first place if they hadn't decided to commit the original crime.

Rebochan

@What The Geek:

Not even that. This seems the equivalent of shoplifting and getting a $100,000 fine for it, after having security beat him up.

Unknown-User

I'd be more inclined for feel unsympathetic for the pirate if large corporations such as Activision didn't operate on the assumption that we're all criminals at heart to begin with.

Still, you reap what you sow.

Coxswain

@fourzerotwo: :D You're right of course though.

Dragonzigg

I can't fault Activision. Sorry, but this is the kind of things that needs to happen to reduce piracy. DRM is not a piracy consequence. Facing the legal consequence is. I have no sympathy for someone that pirates software and gets caught and hung for it.

It sounds really harsh, but the courts will decide if they can even charge him for that much.

Rebochan

@Dragonzigg: I agree. The punishment should fit the crime. The fines that sometimes reach over $100,000 are just insane. Then again, it goes to show you the the courts and government are in place for the rich and powerful.

TheGuilty1

@fourzerotwo: There's a big difference between taking justifiable legal action, and attacking someone. Yea, the guy's a criminal and should be treated as such. No, they shouldn't be threatening him and attempting to sue for all he's worth just because they can - let the punishment fit the crime.

To use your shoplifting example, this is the equivalent of a shoplifter getting beaten up by store security instead of just detaining him until the cops arrive.

What The Geek

@Mister_Jack: Harsh but needed, imho

Dynosaulo

"he even muses on how people who hear of such harsh treatment might not buy Activision products anymore.
Of course, this is a man who opted not to buy them in the first place."

Oh man that is hilarious.
As someone who actually pays money for games, I really don't care how badly pirates are treated.

XbhaskarX

I don't think anyone would try to defend his actions as a pirate, however, let the punishment fit the crime - don't go after people based on their income, go after them for what they did wrong. Strong arm tactics like these give companies a bad reputation. I'm not a pirate, and I enjoy activision products - the fact that they're bullying someone who did them wrong makes me think less of them as a whole. Sure, prosecute the guy - don't railroad him.

What The Geek

I was shop lifting from this store the other day, and the manager was extremely rude to me when he demanded I not steal from them. I was quite offended and don't believe I'll be shopping there again. He even threatened to call the police! Can you believe that. What is this world coming to when a man can't steal in peace from his local shopping establishment of choice.

fourzerotwo

@Mister_Jack:

what if he has been pirating a lot of games costing activision hundreds, possible thousands of dollarrs?

solosith

This is a double edged sword here, neither party is right. Activision shouldn't use their size and money to bully people, and the guy involved shouldn't be stealing. Ultimately he takes responsibility for whatever comes down on him.

Dragonzigg

Man, I am really glad that I don't remember which Neopet that is. -10 Nerd Points for me.

... still at about 50 bajillion for knowing what Neopets is. D:

Anyway, on topic.... yeah, lawyers suck. o.O

vid3oman64

B h h. Shld'v thght bt tht bfr prtng, jckss.

A Pimp Named DaveR

Its a revolution!. It may seem a bit harsh, but so is the giant sticker that clearly displays "Federal Protection".

PsycheE

Piracy is wrong, sure, but it seems pretty harsh to potentially ruin someone's life over a 60 dollar game.

Mister_Jack

@nornicle:
So if I pirate a game but can't even afford a computer or internet connection (lets say I downloaded it on a public PC on a public internet connection), what should I be charged with? The cost of the game/derivative of it, or a couple cents since I am so dirt poor?

Kicken

Overall I'm against piracy. In this particular case the subject is one of those none too uncommon hypocrits who whine and cry at the first sign of trouble. Generally they're the type of person who only buy something only AFTER they could not crack it.
An argument or two could be said that piracy helps sales and after you try it you buy it. Bullshit. That's what a demo is for. Suck it up like the rest of us and if it's something you're into buy it. Just like music in my book.
And with that said I too have had pirated software but generally I get rid of it mostly because it's not right. I play an hour or so,see how it sets up, and then I would end up selling it to other people (the retail copies, not the pirated one.)
The only thing I've got personally is emulated MAME console (10 plus years.) Every "pirate" has their reasoning, and mine in this particular case is I own most of those titles and I'm tired of paying for the title each time they make a NEW console version of the same thing (literally a copy paste of the item.) In this case I am a believer in letting older games be open source. If anything it's to allow for other generations to see the evolution of gameplay and to really enjoy some classic titles that you otherwise wouldn't normally enjoy. Let's be honest however, the rereleases are generally going to those who have ALREADY played the title.
It's like rereleasing a CD, only you cannot play your CD anymore cause it only works in SPECIAL CD players.
But that is my personal crux, I'd like to see what others think of that logic. (Also, it's awesome to know things like PSP are strong enough to play games on other systems from your youth.)
-Adam

ApocalypseVII

@lucasreis: how much are games in The Land of Pirates and Jungle, anyways?

Coxswain

@vid3oman64: Yeah I also knew it was a Poogle but the real point here is: Neopets is SUPER protective of their intellectual property. I wouldn't be surprised of Kotaku gets a letter from them demanding they take down their picture. Which is ironic considering it's an article condemning copyright infringement. And it is infringing copyright.

tollwaytroll

Manufacturing costs:

$0.20 = DVD9 (not sure for Blu-Ray)
$0.15 = DVD Case
$0.10 = Insert
$0.40 = Manual
-----
$0.85

Licensing fees and development cost round
out to an average of $10-15 per unit.

Fuck the advertising and PR costs, wasted money in many cases as word of mouth and in store recommendations influence purchases by a factor of 10 to 1.

Games are $50-60 why?

The average total markup on a consumer product is 16%.

Games are marked up 300 - 400%.

"so suck it up nancy and bend over"

nastygamer

@Coxswain: aaaand this commenteed to the wrong thread. neat.

Coxswain

I don´t support piracy.

But then again, I live in pirateland (Brazil zil zil) and people here practically have no other choice if they aren´t rich. However, a 100% of my gamer friends want to have original products but can´t. It sux really.

I would love to have a 60 dollar price for new games, like in 1st world countries, and yet people complain about it.

lucasreis

@EmpressInYellow:
You aren't possibly suggesting that this isn't a black and white issue? :O

I believe Activision would disagree.

Kicken

@fourzerotwo:

LOL!

Godz_Mercenary

@fourzerotwo: hey, I do my homework - like I said, I never saw anything I thought was CONCRETE - that doesn't mean I haven't looked at any stats on the topic I can find. I'd imagine you've got access to numbers that would make the statistics nerd in me drool.

What The Geek

@Lessthan_tom: BREAKING NEWS: Kotaku supports piracy!

Still, this is pretty harsh -- if I were Activision I'd seek $60 + IP logs of more people to get more $60 license costs from...

redgopher

@nastygamer:

I see your point nasty gamer, while a crime committed physically has less fines and punishment, in theory it's a lot risker for an individual to commit. Not everyone has the balls to steal a physical copy from a store.

With online piracy, it so much easier that anyone can really do it. What do you do? Download a program, click a link, and you're done.

Since it's easy to pirate game, I think the MPA/RIAA are just imposing this harsh fines and penalties to set an example.

exkon

@Zegridathes: principle*

BaseVilliN

@What The Geek: haha. You are more, surprisingly, close on your guesstimations than you know.

fourzerotwo

"Mr. Pirate", you are the one ripping me off, not EA: so fuck you, have fun in court. The idiots who say "piracy make companies lower their prices" are completely full of shit: the legitimate consumer pays both in terms of higher cost of including DRM as well as in the hassle of having to deal with the crappy DRM implementations.
Software Thieves are to blame for DRM, not the companies trying to protect their property. And I say software thieves because stealing is theft, and calling it piracy just makes it somehow sound cool and funny which it is not. Yeah, it's too bad that EA and others resort to badware like SecuROM. It's too bad that they have to resort to gestapo legal tactics. If theft wasn't a problem they wouldn't do it - and they are passing their costs on to me, the legitimate consumer, so I'M the one paying for it.

psychicfriend

@nastygamer: Brainwashed? He sold bootleg copies, and they're trying to make sure the penalty is enough that he doesn't end up having made a profit at the end. He's profiting directly from the work of others and is now paying the price; our glee isn't hypocritical in the least.

The real culprit here, I'm sorry to say, is Kotaku. They're reporting on a story based on a story based on a story, and apparently didn't read far enough back to pick up on the most important part. What we have here is a game of blogger's telephone, and Activision - as much as I hate to defend a corporation - is being unfairly impugned as a result.

mwoody

OMG...bravo for the comparison and boo to all the replies backing up the pirate trying to make their own stupid metaphor. I'd like all of you nubz to test this theory out and 9/10 times...its exactly the same turn out. Otherwise, own a store, sell goods and let me come in to your store to 'download' the game. Then let me go in peace because I only downloaded. Threaten me and I'll kill you all!

leige01

I guess that's what he gets for pirating (aka stealing).

Or hiring a moron lawyer.
Assuming the fool hired a lawyer.

cametall

@EmpressInYellow: Not everyone who would pirate a game would buy one, but the fact is, some of them would. Let's use an imaginary number here - let's say 20% of all the people who pirated, let's say, CoD4 would have bought a copy if the freebie had not been available to them. Now let's say 100,000 people pirated the game. So, in a no piracy scenario, 20,000 of them would have spent the $60, equaling out to $1,200,000. That's nothing to sneeze at. Granted, these are made up estimates - in fact, I don't know of any CONCRETE statistics on this topic, but my point remains valid - piracy hurts the industry.

What The Geek

@TheGuilty1: yes thank you, a 60 dollars fine for the game would of sufficed, not 1/10th of the development cost.

MINIBOSS

Well I am fully against pirating, so suck it up nancy and bend over.

And get a lawyer.

Bananabox-Ninja

@Franklin Comes Alive!: Yeah what's the dealio?

Lessthan_tom

@ninja_warrior: Thanks for filling me in? o_o

Mister_Jack

@EmpressInYellow: Which is why it's considered a "potential" sale, not a "lost" sale.

fourzerotwo

@sluissa:

ignore my previous comment. If this guy was an actual bootlegger selling illegal copies, then yeah, this might have been an appropriate punishment.

sluissa

I said this before elsewhere...

"Steal a physical game at a brick and mortar and you get a slap on the hand (misdemeanor, not felony), a small fine $200-$300 plus restitution to the store $60, and maybe some community service if the judge is in a bad mood. This is stupid, excessive and abusive"

There are people here cheering Activision on for this blatant abuse of power. The majority here are "I BUY MY GAMES, pirates are evil"

Seriously, as I read these posts, the only thing I can say is "Hypocrisy much?"

Did you cheer Metallica for suing their Napster fans?

Do you have MP3 or WMA you did not rip yourself or buy online?

Do you have divx/xvid movies you did not rip or buy online?

If you have even one file of other types of entertainment you are a criminal too.

I'm sure ALL of the software on
your PC is 100% authentic too.

Lawmakers (Biden) and corporations (RIAA & MPA) want to make it a Felony to download one song or movie even if it is your first offense.

There are now harsher laws in place for copyright violation than for rape or manslaughter or real theft and you are OK with this? Wake the fuck up already!

Sorry but you're sounding like you've been brainwashed by the little PSA at the beginning of your DVDs.

nastygamer

@mwoody:

thanks for clarifying that...

Filesharers are one thing, but people who try to make a profit off of others property, that's quite another. In this case, I guess they probably did the right thing, if what you're saying is the truth.

sluissa

@fourzerotwo: I both agree and disagree. Activision's legal team is significantly more well equipped than the pirate's legal team - and by that I most likely mean a court appointed lawyer. As such, they'll most likely come closer to reaching their lofty goals than not. It's become very apparent over the past few years that the average juror or judge knows very little about technology, piracy, or copyright laws - it's become exceedingly easy for a good lawyer to get an extreme sentence passed. Now, we won't really know what that sentence is for some time (if it is ever even made public), but I'd be willing to bet he gets a harsher sentence than what's deserved. That's not really a dig at Activision so much as a dig at the legal system.

What The Geek

@Absent Blue: They'll fuck you, if you're stupid enough to sell copies their crappy games for the 360 in public.

If there is a more obvious way to provoke metaphorical sexual intercourse with a major games corporation... please don't tell me.

lumpi

@nastygamer: Prices of consumer products are generally set by economists / operations researchers to maximize total profits. These specialists are well aware of price elasticity, and if their pricing models showed that more total profit would result from a price of $70-$80 or $30-$40, they would charge prices in those ranges instead. The total markup of the product in comparison to an average total markup across some general sample of products does not enter this equation and should not because it is statistically irrelevant.
So, companies are in business to maximize profits for their shareholders regardless of the industry they operate in, and set their prices accordingly. If you don't like the prices for these games, you are free to substitute them with cheaper games or alternate hobbies that maximize your utility.

psychicfriend

Wow, I didn't know there was a site on the internet where you can privately download stuff from others for free!!!1

lumpi

Sucks for him, but Activision is making a prime example out of him. Not only will they sue you, but they intend to do it in such a manner that is relative to each person. They calculate your terms of living and financially neuter you accordingly, which is somehow more threatening than being sued for $300,000 because all of a sudden the charges feel realistic.

Moral of the story? Don't fuck with Activision, they'll fuck you right back.

Absent Blue

The only shocking part of this story is fact that this pirate actually had settlement talks and entered into an agreement without legal counsel.

The monetary "punishment" for copyright infringement is set forth by law. Punitive damages may also be assessed depending on the circumstances, and those always take the guilty party's finances into account. Activision might be a bunch of jerks, but it doesn't appear that their legal team did anything unfair or out of the ordinary. The only "scare tactic" utilized by this group was the threat to increase damages if the pirate contacted a lawyer. It was a bluff and, frankly, it worked.

b.bear

This is what I was talking about the other day when I said I didn't think anybody could piss off people more than EA did with their DRM. (I knew this sort of thing was coming)

Punishments that appear very heavy handed vs the crime, and RIAA tactics are a sure-fire way to upset people.

I honestly don't have trouble with people being fined for 100 or 200 bucks or whatever the value of the software they pirated is.

I DO have trouble if they go after people for thousands of dollars who were not part of an actual piracy ring.

and if that keeps up I"ll have trouble with them fining people for circumventing the DRM (as I believe that has become illegal in some places)

juc

@Krondonian: You picked one of the most expensive and least successful game in existence.

I still agree that the amounts of money claimed are obscene. They want to make an example. An example for douchebaggery, that will be ignored by pirates nevertheless.

lumpi

@nastygamer: I don't disagree re: used games, but that doesn't really have anything to do with this case. "Lots of people are doing it" isn't an argument for letting it continue unabated. The solution is to do exactly what they're doing: grab the stupider, less savvy criminals and punish them so hard that the others decide the risk outweighs the profit.

mwoody

pirate all you want!!
just don't get caught..

xtraman

@Lazlo:

I would imagine the disemvoweling was a result of gratuitous personal insult at the end of the comment.

doubtful

@Rebochan: "The Legal System" you're referring to applies in criminal trials, not civil suits. Activision can claim whatever damages they want in civil suits (no matter how reasonable or unreasonable).

TheMoof

@henri1kk:

"Consider yourself lucky!"

Yeah, but your beer is better and your women are sexier and your economy isn't crumbling.

I buy the games that deserve buying, too.

My point is games could be a lot cheaper and still make a profit. This industry experienced 56% growth last year with record profits all around to the companies that earned it.

Discs were supposed to reduce the cost to the gamer over carts, and the pubs have never made good on that promise.

nastygamer

pirate stuff all you want!!
just don't get caught..

xtraman

So the guy pirates multiple games, then cries about it when he actually gets in trouble? What a moron.

Just like how big businesses want privatization when they're making money and socialization when they're going bankrupt. Nobody wants to be held responsible for their actions anymore.

Daiden

Well it's a bit obvious that if he hired a lawyer that he would have to pay them more. They would have to work more and if it went to trial they would be using more than just one lawyer. Legal fees and trial fees added to what they already told him, I'd say that it's not strong-arming, just letting him know the ramifications of what would actually happen.

Reavyn29

He SOLD those copies. SOLD them. He's not some harmless kid who downloaded a game he didn't like anyway over the internets.

He tried to build a business on top of it.

You cannot compare the two, although Activision would like you to do so. Don't fall for it.

lumpi

@nastygamer: Shenmue. Cost $70 million. Sold 1.2 million. That's $58.33 per copy.

Find me a verifiable source for your $10-15 claim, and I'll eat my words. But I call that bullshit.

Krondonian

@mwoody:

I get he was selling, and he was extremely stupid for doing so. He probably was using eBay or Craigslist to move product, otherwise he would not have been caught.

Have you been to a large metropolitan city?

Flea Markets and Vendor-Malls (a mall made of mom-and-pop businesses) are loaded with bootleg movies, music and games in every language and never get messed with like this.

The scary part is the laws are rapidly changing to punish those of us who just download too.

"profiting directly from the work of others"

As far as this goes, GameStop is worst offender here.
They move so much more used product at a higher profit and the devs/pubs never see a penny.

If you mostly buy used games, you are hurting the industry WORSE than a pirate.

nastygamer

@nastygamer:

Consider yourself lucky! In Europe we pay 70€ ($100) per game!

But I still don't pirate stuff!
If I don't have enough money to buy something, I save up until I do and then I buy it!
As I've said before, software piracy is theft! Downloading a game is the same f*cking thing as going to your local store and stealing it!

henri1kk

@ninja_warrior: So by your logic, we should execute everyone caught shoplifting, speeding, and jaywalking then, same as the serial rapist. They all broke the law, and there is a reason why we have laws. No excuses, they get what's coming to them.

Chilling, isn't it?

You folks do remember the RIAA lawsuits where they would send scary men in suits to filesharing users' doors saying "pay us now or we'll actually sue for real"? And you do remember the RIAA themselves were taken to court for doing that?

I have no sympathy for this pirate being prosecuted, but there *is* a point where it goes too far.

(Though, to be fair, for all we know the reason the lawyers were taking his personal income into account was because the real case value was much higher than he could ever pay, so they were authorized to establish an amount based on the accused's net worth. The way it's worded makes this ambiguous.)

Norellicus

@psychicfriend: I have to agree with you. I also love how suddenly pirates become economists when they justify their reasoning.
Somehow they almost always throw aside the DEVELOPMENT cost for a title. Odd right?
-Adam

ApocalypseVII

@ninja_warrior: I illegally download movies, music and even some games. I'd go tell a record executive this to his face. I do however go purchase the ones that are good. There is so much shit out there and I don't have the money to go waste it all on trash. If I couldn't download this stuff off the internet, I wouldn't know about even half of my favorite games and movies and lets not even get started with music. I mean yeah, the guy might have bought CoD3, but without trying it first he would have been giving Activision money for a terrible game. If you want my money, you'd better step your game up because I'm not buying most of the trash that's released.

Terminus

@Krondonian:

Sega: idiots who don't know how to make a profit.

arstal

@sluissa: @sluissa:

I got the impression that it was more serious then a simple downloader.

arstal

@Rebochan: As has been stated before, this is far more than the fine for conventional theft. There's been far smaller fines for MURDER.

This is a corporation milking the legal system for more money, Because They Can. I doubt they even CARE about this despite the money. I can't believe how absolutely BLIND a lot of you are, thinking this is remotely a good thing.

HikariOblivion

@ninja_warrior:

So you should lose your house for getting a speeding ticket?

Same principle.

arstal

Cry me a river. He stole. He got caught. Now's he's upset because the people he stole from didn't treat him nicely?

robinandtami

@Balthasar: If they want to play the game, they have to buy it. This whole argument of "I don't want to buy it, but I want to play it" is exactly stealing isn't it?

MehGinla

@HikariOblivion: Yes, how dare the corporations take advantage of the legal system by using it to prosecute crimes committed against them. Using the legal system for its intended purpose is a crime against humanity!

Rebochan

@onepoker:
You're advocating ending a human being's life for violating a corporation's IP rights? And you justify this how?

I guarantee that everyone who complains about software pirates on here freely downloads (or has downloaded) music. This is exactly the same thing and you are not innocent either. And then you mention that you pirated software after (downloading abandonware, even if you're previously paid, is still piracy).

StartingAces

@malificusx: I love how this argument always crops up. A "real crime" is of course not the crime the person is being convicted of.

Rebochan

@What The Geek: Pies?
I copied and pasted your comment onto a wordpad document and it`s now mine to do with whatever i want.Are you missing it or is anyone else not able to read it now? Would i have payed for that comment if i didn`t have it?
Go on, take a wild guess!

UFO

@nastygamer: You know, I love how people completely removed from the game development process are suddenly experts in costs and profit and how much profit other people deserve to make based on the already imaginary numbers getting plucked out of thin air.

Rebochan

@Trygle12: Sort of my point, yeah. Still, they gotta do what they gotta do, but they had best remember that it's a futile exercise to try to "make an example" out of a pirate. It will never work. Never ever ever ever ever ever. They should focus more on just recovering whatever the pirated discs were worth, because the last thing they want is to make their consumers feel like Activision is just sitting and waiting for them to screw up so they can take them for all they're worth.

Mister_Jack

@HikariOblivion: BWAHAHAHA!

I'm sorry, I'm just enjoying your logic of comparing a slew of legal activities that do cost the industry money in other ways, and making piracy, a crime, out to be some mere inconvenience in the same ballpark.

Rebochan

The first thing I thought to myself when looking at this was, "Oh, a Pirate Poogle".

And then I was ashsamed.

SKS2K7

@Coxswain: 120 dollars average (250 reais in our currency) and the average wage here is 250 dollars. Some friends of mine earn something like 350 dollars for a living. Fortunately I have a better position and I don´t have this kind of sallary but the majority of people don´t earn enough to live well, let alone to play games. It´s sad...

lucasreis

@psychicfriend: woah woah woah woah woah. gestapo tactics? Don't get me wrong, I think that they're harsh, but i don't think anyone's been "dissappeared" yet.

Coxswain

@leige01: As mentioned earlier, this is a far harsher punishment than the legal system would assign for theft.

HikariOblivion

@mwoody:

I have to disagree.

The corps will only use this as the gateway to fucking with the little guy and downloading a file should never carry with it a harsher consequence than rape, drug dealing or killing someone while drunk driving just because some scum-sucking lobbyist padded some pockets. (Biden)

It's not even close.

Are all your MP3s/Movies/Apps legit? Probably not.

Do you think you should spend 1+ years in prison at the tax payers expense over it?

nastygamer

@Mister_Jack:
Pirates will always exist. Do what you want, but they will always be there.

To Activision: Congratulations on catching one! Now just make sure you treat them fairly, or else you will get a big dose of media backlash like the RIAA did. Just remember that you won't really be doing much here... or ever. Unless you think up of a means to sue more than 5 or so people at once. Even then, pirates will still exist.

All will be for naught.

Trygle12

Geeze, Activision is acting like he 'stole' something. At least they could stand to Ye olde Pirate's Code of Honour

Wulfenlord

By the way I have downloaded abandon ware myself. I downloaded star command the other day a great throw back game. by the way I paid for a copy 16 or so years ago so I don't feel to bad.

onepoker

@psychicfriend: You know what? If not for piracy they'd have another excuse. Rentals, used games, borrowing. Anything else that could constitute a lost sale. Piracy is just a convenient illegal practice they can blame instead.

HikariOblivion

@Spoony Bard: Silly reason to disemvowel someone. They're worthless pirates, why should they get any respect? e_e

Kia

I say take him out in the street and cut his head off then distribute the video for free on the internet.
Ok maybe that is a bit harsh. But come on guys this guy didn't steal one game he posted it on the internet and stole copies for thousands of people. He should be punished severely. These guys steal from everyone who makes a living in the business.

By the way I am not a software company rep.

onepoker

Those who support Activision in this, remember that these are the signs of the legal system becoming owned by corporations. It starts with pirates, but it WILL NOT end with pirates. If you can't rent games in the future because it becomes illegal, you can look at this as the reason why.

HikariOblivion

@leige01:
If you can come into my store and 'download' a DVD without tampering with the original product, be my guest. :)

Kicken

As someone who actually buys games, I can safely say that the above posters are elitist pricks.

Icharius

@psychicfriend:

I don't like the prices.

I think you are using lofty words to justify the greed and imbalance on the part of the publishers though.

Which is why I don't buy anything on launch day.

If a game is worth playing, it will sell well to the impatient masses and then make the greatest hits roster.
Once the price is half or more new $30-40, I buy the used copy for half of that $15-$20.

My penny never gets into the pocket of the dev though.
Only downside.

nastygamer

that header pic is hilarious Fahey.

Cell9song

@nastygamer:

"Yeah, but your beer is better and your women are sexier and your economy isn't crumbling."

I agree with that statement! ;)

But seriously, I also think that games are overpriced and that we should be seeing lower prices (especially on DVD9 games)! But that's not an excuse to say "Well, they're overpriced so I'm not gonna pay at all!"...

I just don't agree with piracy because I consider it theft!
I pick my games very carefully and if there's a game I want but can't afford to buy new, I either buy it used or wait until I have the money for it!

I can't agree with people that think "I don't have enough money for it, so I'll just fire up ma torrentzz..."!

henri1kk

@doubtful: That is correct.

Spoony Bard

I'm surprised that Activision itself is doing the suing, unlike the record companies behind the RIAA. People can hate the RIAA and still buy Britney's album without feeling like a hypocrite, but Activision is courting some nerd rage by being the face behind the lawyer.

SeedyXX

@Krondonian:

Simple math dude.

Average A or B grade game budget is now set at $10,000,000. (Some titles are more, some less.)

We'll say the business plan anticipates 1,000,000 distributed to retail in a 12-24 month period.
They get paid whether the game leave the shelf or not.

That's $10 a pop.

See it's easy.

Shenmue was a bad example, not quite the Waterworld of the video game business, but close.

The bullshit is the marketing budgets bigger than the dev budgets. You want to find the bloat and waste in game industry. There it is.

nastygamer

Activision would never waste time nor resource on a small fish downloading a few torrents here or there.

(I'm looking at a few of you.)

rainofwalrus

I feel no sympathy for him whatsoever. Good riddance.

Oh, and for the chumps bemoaning how this MIGHT negatively affect gamer goodwill: Fucking ridiculous, your reasoning.

Jest

@Rebochan:

You don't know squat.
I've been in the business since 1989.

I have worked on dev teams.

I have worked on the marketing and advertising side.

I have worked in the journalism side and seen the ugly waste of PR and ad dollars.

I've seen the devs (producers, animators, programmers, the real heroes of the industry) fucked out of royalties and "let go" once the project is over or didn't meet unrealistic business plan expectations.

I have no love for the publishers and their little machine.

Bottomline is a copyright infringement should never carry a punishment more severe than rape, manslaughter, physical theft.

nastygamer

@ninja_warrior: Let the punishment fit the crime, friend. He did break the law, but something tells me he is being treated more harshly than he should.

ZeroBlade

Man, you guys are cold.

What if it was someone you knew, someone you were close to? Would you still feel the same way?

Altima NEO