Enjoy your spray of notes ;)

osteofight

the question is, how long will it take them to figure it out? also, thanks to frets on fire, a good number of songs have been created anyway, so chances are someone has already charted it for you and all youll have to do is copy note for note. unless its some song from another country, then probably not

bigman88zz

A Team theme is out the window ?

Raikkenon

oh thats kinda shitty, i dont want to sit there for 5 days making a sweet child o mine cover , i want someone else to do it for me.

Raikkenon

@trelantana: Hopefully they do implement it similarly to where you are going with this. If not, it might be something for Activision or Harmonix to look into for future iterations.

The one drawback could be if people don't do a good job labeling the specific rip the song came from (e.g. a greatest hits remastered version w/ a 2 second lead in versus the original w/ no lead in.) if not it could lead to alot of irritating trial and error.

Greenman

i thought this was already well known....hell i thought i read it on kotaku a few weeks back >.>;;;;

either way it makes sense for activision. you avoid A) music companies getting pissy, B) really bad representations of songs (and along with the good versions unfortunately :/) and C) they can make it as DLC later.

I think activision has looked at how the rock band business model works with DLC and said "hey we could use more money" lol i'm betting we'll be seeing a lot more out of them this time around.

demonknightinuyasha

Lets hope they enforce this with all the effort youtube puts into it.

penty85

So they had an advantage.. and threw it out the window.

lapiz

i'll just do them myself, stop being lazy people

MortonCabarizzaaay

Yeah this puts the weak in weaksauce. How are they really going to police every fan-made track though? I can't imagine Activision having entire crews monitoring all this content that might be copyright infringing. I have a feeling the same guys who show up to arrest you for making a copy of your parents old CD's will be the ones "looking-out" for this. :P

Kuro

...What if you upload the chart without the song with the intention of the downloader splicing their mp3 into the chart?

It could work with the 360 when you consider that the only songs you can get on the HDD are ones that you rip from a CD.

trelantana

Well this feature has just became even more useless. I never seen the point of this feature as it defeats the purpose of the original concept of the game. You play game like this and Rock Band to pretend you're in a band playing some amazing songs. I thought a lot of people would use this to make game theme tunes but after this that won't happen now. If people want to make music I can't the problem of picking up a proper instrument and doing it themselves, even a replica stratocaster which is much cheaper would do the job. Nothing wrong with a little time and effort, just giving my two cents.

KaRmAChAnG

Well I guess I won't be buying this game. I mean, the track listing is the worst in music game history and it's saving grace was a feature that they're now saying will be useless.

Terminus

And here's the reason why I knew this feature would be a waste of time. There's a few public domain classical songs that could be fun, but pretty much everything in the Rock genre is still under copyright (copyright expires 70 years after the author's death, or if considered to have the recording company as the author, 95 years after publication.) So, thanks to U.S. copyright law, your cool music creation and sharing system is pretty much useless.

Edgehopper

Isn't it an unwritten truth that the whole appeal of this mode so that people CAN re-create their favorite songs that Activision can not/will not support? This kind of puts on a damper on the whole thing. I mean, it's awesome to be able to make your own songs and be creative, but I want to download a note perfect version of Misirlou for example!

Y2Jason

@Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.: Yeah, Guitar Hero III is definitely way behind Rock Band on the DLC.

gomerkyle9

I thought it would count as a Cover version because you're certainly not ripping the actual song file into the game. Especially without the vocals.

Oh well, just another reason why this feature is half useless. Would still rather them just promise to pump out songs as fast as Harmonix are.

(I say half because theres still going to be a bunch of people, hopefully, that make some truly impressive and fun songs through this.)

Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.

Well, if they can't share it via download they will most likely put it on YouTube(or any other on-line vid site) anyway. Either way, it's just a matter of time for they find a way to share that kind stuff. One way or the other.

Maxemillian

There's got to be a way around this... I mean, I have steered away from Guitar Hero games because the music seems to be too American cock-rock based, rather than actually containing decent, unpretentious music... but the music creator, and the fact that I might be able to actually find some decent songs, was tempting me. If the songs out there are all vocal-less random creations, and not proper covers.... hmmm. I will think again.

Ungruntled

i'm not interested in this game at all, and i think the song editor is going to be a trainwreck, but thank you for the melvins reference.

salmonax

Someone will make a website, or include in a website the exact setup for songs. Simple.

Problem fixed, people can just go there, look at what to do for a specific song...and they're golden.

Having said that, I don't have the money or the time for this game :(.

Shandy706

The good news is barring some bad wording it sounds like Activision will let you upload tracks to the servers and then they will check them after the fact. They also didn't mention anything about punishment for users who upload copyrighted material. If this is how they plan on dealing with this copyright business it just means you have to go through with the tedium of re-uploading the songs over and over...it would be a hassle, but it would still work.

Greenman

Can't you just add a note to make it "different", like Vanilla Ice did? I mean, come on, this is Guitar Hero we're talking about; extra notes are par for the course.

Kyattsuai

well, the songs themselves can be downed from net, there's alot of midis out there anw. So the only problem would be the actual gamekeys and there will be lots of tabs for these on net. Of course this won't work with xbox, but then again, how many are going to get inferior version in the end?

Yas

Yeah, this on top of the 3 minute limit has officially removed any interest I had in this mode.

the_loxster

Not sure how they think they are going to enforce this...

KaneRobot

I don't have any doubts that this utility could be use to create some good music, even at the 3 minute/1200 note limit.

There will be a very small fraction of users who could pull off something very decent and upload to GH tunes.

Too bad no one will care.

Hugoku

Heres me wanting to play some Sonic Adventure music.

God damn you Activision...

King of Fun UK

whoa activision is making a real dumb idea

didn't they said that the point of letting u be able to make songs is 1.make your own songs,2.put the songs u made with either band,and 3. re-create ur favorite songs.

Later on there gonna say that Metallica and The Beatles games wont be able to play with the GH:WT drums and vocals

This is dumb,if Activison is reading these hole comments or in there forums,PLEASE LET US MAKE OUR FAVORITE SONGS LEGAL!!

SinStryker

@Terminus: Thought that, taht comment migth be a bit harsh, so checked out the tracklist....damn thats is piss poor, was gonna pick up just the game (got my rock band instruments) but damn prob wont bother with that poor showing

SSJ4_Macd

twinkle, twinkle little star: HERE I COME!

Deenight

Hey, maybe instead people will use the mode for what it was actually intended for - unleashing creativity and composing your own original pieces. What a subversive idea!

maltesefalcon42

Put mic up to speaker as you play one of your favorite songs on it
Download notechart
???
PROFIT

That1GuyNess

The song creator is an awesome feature, there are alot of great indie rock that will hopefully be created for this.

BassForever

Is that art from the loading screen? Because it's awesome.

urutapu

i was hoping it wouldnt be like that, but this also cleared up confusion i had. I didnt know if the music creator was for just writing note charts to some mp3 you uploaded, or it was actually creating original music note by note. Apparently, based on this you can do both, but exisiting music wont be able to be shared which sucks BIG TIME.

now im definately going with rock band 2.

the_grimace

@Ungruntled:

There's a reason that Harmonix didn't include a song creator in Rock Band 2. They wanted to do it properly. They took a single look at GH:WT's bull-shit music creation program and saw all these problems a mile away. Between that and the questionable durability of the cymbals on their drum set, I can't think of one favorable argument to buying GH:WT over RB2.

Chadthecavalier

wait, you guys thought that you would seriously be able to get recreate licensed music to upload and share? Must suck to be forced to be creative instead of giving activision enough legal hassles to tell you all to go to hell then remove all the recreations anyway

CaptBlues

I really don't see what people are complaining about. Given the number of people who have plugged songs into Frets on Fire and the ilk I'm sure there will be plenty available for download. Just because some big band didn't make it doesn't mean it can't be fun to play. Hell, half the well known band songs in GH and RB aren't fun to play.

It's still (possibly) free DLC with unlimited potential. Why bitch about it?

Saxboy

@islandknight: 3 minutes and 1200 notes.

But if you run the math, that's a constant stream of 6 notes per second through the whole song.

I don't think you'll have a problem.

TRT-X

@Kyattsuai: Well, Vanilla Ice settled out of court to avoid being sued for it, too... not a great example...

dae_giovanni

@NeoAkira: While I don't doubt my ability to fumble my way through the music creator...I do doubt my ability to compose quality music. Or fun charts for that matter.

As far as exporting the song from HDD. Are we 100% sure that each song will be an individual save locally? Or will it be something like a "Created Music" save file where it's all housed.

Because I'm sure Acitivision knows people will try what you're suggesting, and will come up with something to prevent it.

The best way would be to group everything into one Music Maker save. That way you can upload your save file to some site, but then to download it people would have to overwrite their own contents.

TRT-X

can't they just make the song and put the gamesave on a website? port it to your system via usb? idk.and someone up there said 3 mins time limit? that sucks if thats true.

islandknight

@TRT-X:

Actually here's what will happen.

People will create the songs, then export them from their HDD or internal memory into their PC and upload them onto the internet.

Then people will just download these songs and load it onto the game. And now we have our own song sharing system.

Besides, the fact that you won't be able to download ALL the songs other people put up makes the feature no longer a huge selling point for you? Have some creativity.

NeoAkira

@Gantz: Your Trusted Friend in Science.: I say half because theres still going to be a bunch of people, hopefully, that make some truly impressive and fun songs through this.

While I hope you're right. I have a feeling that a LOT of charts are going to come from the Scorehero crowd and be nothing but walls of Skittles. The song will sound terrible, but you'll be able to get a MAX SCOAR!

That or people will just draw penises with the notes...

TRT-X

Here's what's going to happen:

1) People will make copyrighted songs. Then will videotape or somehow record the process so you can recreate it locally.

2) Songs that sound "close" to licensed tracks will be removed just as quickly as those that ARE licensed tracks.

Whatever the case, this'll pretty much render the feature useless. As I may be able to make music that sounds "passable". But it'll end up either being a boring chart or a sucky song on a more global scale.

This feature is no longer a huge selling point.

TRT-X

I can't seriously be the only one who saw this coming. People have been sued for using specific instrument tracks from a section of music. Covers are covers because they have variations scattered throughout the music that makes it distinct enough to avoid litigation. Of course they're not going to open themselves to litigation by distributing a song you made to match a licensed song. Sorry people, I said it once and here it is again: MANAGE YOUR OWN EXPECTATIONS AND YOU WONT BE SO DISAPPOINTED.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@Gantz

These would be considered cover versions of songs. Problem is, licensing fees would need to be collected for you to distribute the cover version digitally.

Cover bands can get away with anything because there is no problem with performing a cover song live. The recording and sharing gets...complicated. Both by the DMCA and copyright law hacking of the past decade.

I suspect the choice Activision has is to allow cover songs, OR be able to get licenses to the original versions on the disc.

moofrank

@CaptBlues, Saxboy: Wow, decent, useful, nonranting posts! Thanks, folks.

People have such a hardon for RockBand, despite its totally broken difficulty, empty note charts, and the fact that half the songs people seem to consider 'good' are completely boring, simplistic, and hardly worth playing more than once or twice. Maybe I'm just lame; I thought GH3's songlist was really good, with adequate difficulty to match.

I'm a fan of both games, and since the (fake) instruments are system-compatible now, I'll just buy both. I'm looking forward to seeing what the GHWT creator will allow, as well as what my own creativity will provide.

dae_giovanni

Interestingly, they don't point out whether they'll even wait to see if it was put up by, say, the actual legal copyright owners.

What this suggests to me is that what they want to avoid is ambiguity when they walk out and flat-out claim they own the IP rights to anything created on the service.

Indie bands, read fine print twice and have a lawyer read it once before you use this to put your own songs up. Seriously.

PositivelyGreg

I don't see how sharing data on when to strike a chord in a certain song infringes on anyone's copyright? Do songbook publishers (books used for learning to play guitar) have to pay copyright fees?

little computer freund

well that sucks. not buying it then.

cyr3n

This raises the question of who actually owns the copyright to uploaded original songs. I'd bet that somewhere in the fine print you are granting Activision ownership or at least exclusive rights to any uploaded original material.

mray

@dae_giovanni:

Yeah I was a fan of most of GH3s songlist, really I just wanted them to pick a better Tenacious D song :(

I certainly dont see the reason for having a cry about GH4 not letting people to get or make free cover versions of songs that activision haven't released. It's not like RB2 is doing it so it still stands as a plus for anyone that wants to have a shot at creating something of their own. I'd rather get both, but being in aus we haven't gotten any plastic drumkits yet so its GH3 for me.
Not being able to get free stuff isn't a reason to turn from one game to the other specially when it offers even less new stuff, if you like the genre and can at least get one set of instruments there's no reason to have to praise one and slag the other one off if they both give you the same thing

CaptBlues

Why GHWT song maker mode sucks:
1) as described in teh article any track uploaded that even resembles a copywrited song is pulled from teh service.
2) any track you make and upload is then considered the property of activision so if you ever want to acrtually record those tracks you make in real life tough their the property fo activision.
3)there's a 3 minute time limit to all songs.
4) there's a limit to how many notes you can have in any one section of a song(the limit is smaller than the limit on 5 possible notes at any time.
5) teh reliance on un changeable midi banks means most songs will sound very similar if not in structure then in tone.

logicalnoise

This is why the music creator aspect never appealed to me. I don't have the time or patience to sit there and work out midi samples into various key changes and then chart the song. Then to do this for not just one instrument but for three instruments? And make it sound good and fun to play?

I imagine that others feel the same. Sure you may get a few really good original tunes. Some obscure recreated video game music may squeak by the vetting process. But these gems may very well be few and far between. And if you have some friends over and given the choice of playing user created songs or the songs already in game, the in game songs are going to win almost every time.

I hope I am wrong in my cynicism because the tool does have mass appeal potential.

dyl604

It can't be counted as a cover, becuase you still need to pay royalties.

Now the game is absolutely irrelevant now. Just a copy of Rock Band.

But if you still want to make your favorite songs... people might post the way to do it on gamefaqs...

NuclearSun

Why can't an interviewer ask the two most important questions I have about this game:

1. Can songs be shared directly between friends?
2. How does the MIDI importing work on the PS3 version of the game?

Poisonous Taoist

I thought the reason they cut out vocals from being about to be implemented was because of the copyright issues, and that anything else could probably constitute as fair use (see "mash-ups" and "NES synthesizer covers"). I'm no lawyer, but I do wish developers would be honest with themselves before they take to the stage to talk to us.

But yup, Rock Band 2 even with it's slight improvements over the original looks to take on this season with no sweat, too.

Phydeaux

@cyr3n:
Agreed. That's just pointless.

Dexyn

On the PS3, can't you upload entire songs from your PC? Therefore, won't this trading then take place out in the open internet (rather than Activision's servers)?

topaz420

What if someone makes a video showing everything he made to create the song and uploads it to youtube?

HELLSRIDER

Keep on rockin' in a free world

theblob

I understand its not really a good idea to share the actual songs but why cant the music 'hit' information be separate so I take my CD pop it in the drive the game rips a copy for me to play and overlays the downloaded note score. You have sharing that way but Activision is safe from be responsible for sharing copyright material.

Konchu

@MortonCabarizzaaay:

I dont think its so much as being "lazy" as being upset.

gaming has quickly become a community oriented entertainment network, on the mirco and macro scale. Rock Band and World tour let you play with 3 of your friends in the same room, as well as ranking you world wide against everyone who plays the game.

While making your own songs would be fun (baring how non-user-friendly and stupidly confusing the editor will be) Its loads more fun to play and explore what others have created, be it songs, art, maps, models, mods, etc... activition effectively saying "hell no, 75% of all songs you would ever want to create cant be shared online. thank you!"

I say 75%, because i cant imagine many people have the ear or skill to create truely interesting music that the public would like to download and play. most songs we would want to play are things we know and like. IE: songs by actual famous artists.

and even if you make all the songs you'd ever want to play, they don't have vocals and you cant share them with anyone! That's what i would want to do! Adding to the community- unhindered- would be fun!!!

Albi4ever

@HELLSRIDER: Then go ahead and plug every last tedious note into the program, one at a time, painstakingly recreating 3 minutes off your favorite song. Because that sounds like fun!

guitarzan2k5

Kinda figured this was given.. It has to start somewhere though and this is a pretty big feature the next Rock Band & Guitar Hero games will build upon.

PlasmaMachine

@TRT-X:

OH! Penis songs!!!

I cant wait! you win with that comment. :)

Albi4ever

Now I REALLY wish I had a ps3. Sure you can't download songs through GHWT's service, but the midi importing will still work perfectly fine to create and import note perfect versions of other songs.

Sir_Crocidile

It wasn't realistic to think people were going to be able to share all kinds of copyrighted material online with no $$$ going to the artists (or Activision). You'll notice that Activision allowed months and months to go by without making an official statement about it. It will probably affect their sales, so they remained vague until they finally had to fess up.

b.bear

Damn.

This means I'll have to learn Purple Rain and Bat out of Hell myself.

Damndamn.

Dear Prince and Meatloaf,

Aww, go on. *nudge*

Hugs

CrabBotherer

Crab_Botherer

I wonder if you'll be able to transfer songs from one console to a PC to another console via USB drive or something like that.

Roto13

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): Nah. Actually, covers are covers because royalties are paid to the original artist. You don't actually need to get permission from the original artists, as long as you pay the proper royalties. It has nothing to do with making it sound different, as there have been many covers that sound almost exactly the same as the originals. As long as you pay the royalties, you can cover the song, whether nearly note for note or a speedmetal version of Who Let The Dogs Out?

NinjaMarion

@trelantana: Someone certainly feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the song creator will work even close to that way. I'm pretty sure it's more you choosing the notes and sounds to make up the song, rather than you uploading a sound file and creating a chart to go with it.

NinjaMarion

@logicalnoise:

Why this argument fails:
1) "So if you want that NOTE-PERFECT cover of Honey Bucket, you're going to have to roll your sleeves up and do it yourself."

2) Have you seen how music is made with the music creator? Real band? Yeah I just don't see it happening.

3) It will be extended for people who make good songs

4) Yeah, this is lame

5) There is no reliance on unchangable midi banks. You can change notes/key as much as you want. including sharps and flats. This isn't a problem.

I honestly see no reason people just don't make versions of songs in a different key and have the downloadees change it around when they get it.

Magicjarvis

This seems like it would be easily circumvented, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Magicjarvis

A sad, but a reasonable statement.

This kind of news opens up a whole second market, doesn't it? The information will be shared regardless; they can't stop the internets!

boopadoo

Well we can always wait to see how this pans out and if it stays in the next version of Guitar Here, otherwise known as Guitar Hero V Universal Tour. Well, then we have a winner.

FrizzleFried

Wait, what if an indie artist uploads his/her/their track on there? Will it get taken down because it's copyrighted?

Aresef

Taking down shares of licensed songs isn't going to prevent much.
People will just create online tutorials that can be easily followed to get the songs into the game.

It will take a tiny bit more effort, but this move by Activision certainly won't stop people from making and sharing their favorite songs.

phor11

Ya know, this does suck, but it only makes sense. The easiest way I can think of to bypass it is to create your copyrighted song, then name it something totally unrelated. Obviously people wouldn't know what it was in searches and such, but the song would likely get rated high and the copyright crackdown team would take much longer to figure out if it is in fact copyrighted, as they would have to know the song simply by the sound, not the name. Well, we can only hope...

icegoat

The only things that people could hope for are features like being able to transfer the saved note chart music files and transfer them via portable storage thingies. Either that, or allow direct sending of files between individual users.
Not that there'd be no content otherwise, but there'd just be a whole lot of crap on there to sift through.

Hmmm... I wonder if you were to make your own cover of a song, record it, and use that online. I know friends who have recorded some some great stylish covers of songs, so to be able to play/send their versions of some songs would be cool.

Blah8

this is a really lame idea to save two bucks a song. you all seem to forget the 3 minute rule. if it was boston you'd only get the foreplay.

AlphaUltima

Is this supposed to be a surprise to anyone? Activision would get there asses sued off if they did anything else.

giroml

-1 sale.

XbhaskarX

I imagine sites will pop up with collections of instructions on creating perfect renditions of songs. Could be useful or not, depending on how much people will care/how many people will want to do it/how hard it will be.

Askiba

I don't care. I'm still putting in every I Hate You When You're Pregnant song, and sharing them, and I dare them to take them down. Phillip Brent Buckman himself owes me an Internet favor - I have that printed out and _framed_ - and I will call him down from the panty-wearing homo-core punk rap heavens to fist Actiblizzass if they cockblock it.

WilletteEchidna

Does this mean no Megaman 2 Wily's Castle remix?

Yomanman

Not surprising as copyright is cited as the reason why they don't allow lyrics to be implemented into created songs.

While sort of a bummer, it's normal to see a company want to rake in the $$$ while protecting themselves from anything that'll take it away.

I wonder if videogame covers will be "attacked" in the same way. I'd really enjoy being able to play game music covers but I guess the fact that these games are cross-platform make game songs hard as there's not too many that are cross-platform that are well liked. Still, wouldn't it be awesome if you could rock out to the Mario or Zelda theme, on your 360/PS3? =P

Liraco

What if you own the copyright to the material and want to make a guitar hero version of your songs for distrobution...

Wonder what they'd do then?

DarKKendO

Shows what you know, there's a limit of 1200 notes and 3 minutes in GH : WT.

BertBabanya

Um, so what is the point of the song creator then??

I know that I would LOVE to play Stone Roses - Begging You made by someone, so would spend time looking for it.

But why would I want to scan through thousands of user content in the hope I would like a song?

Seems like Activision have just killed the only positive this game has over Rockband2 for me.

(apart from the fact Rockband2's not even being launched in Australia... *sigh*)

FunkyJ

@trelantana: NinjaMarion is right, I'm pretty sure the creator does not work at all like trelantana's post suggests. You can't "only upload the chart without the song", because the chart is all there is.

nworobes

@Chadthecavalier: I see you don't have a Wii only, friend.

dslsd64