Why are people saying pirates are to blame for the complaints? Pirates don't deal with the DRM as it's been removed in their copies! The complaints are obviously from non-pirates. Like me. I bought it, and I added my negative review to the Amazon page due to it blocking me with Securom error 5016 (that's the "I hate programmers" error that occurs if you've used filemon at least once since last reboot - filemon's a /very/ popular tool for debugging btw). That's just BS - why should I get punished for having paid for the game?

Games with Securom deserve the 1 star rating.

Kral2

Let's move this to another medium...

What if a record company decided that you could only play their CDs in 5 CD Players, and somehow integrated that rule into each CD they produced? (impossible, i know, but play along)

You say "what do I care? I only have 2 CD players anyway." ... but then a few months later, you get the latest greatest CD player, and then you want to play the CD in someone else's CD player so they can listen to it. Then, a year or 2 down the road, you get ANOTHER CD player and want to listen to it, now realizing that you can't listen to it on any other CD players without buying it again.

I reload Windows quite often, and build new PCs somewhat often as well. I've installed the same LEGIT programs and games a dozen times over the life of the product (depending on what it is). So Spore wouldn't work for me.

For example: Starcraft...
I bought it back in the late 90's. I've since installed it about 20 times on about 6 different PCs. At that rate, Spore wouldn't last me 2 years.

Nside

it took me a second to get the reference for the pic.
lol. very cute ;)

laser beams

@BallPtPenTheif: Did you completely ignore Agnates's post? He explained how the consumers is getting punished: DRM restricts the number of times you can install software on a computer.

YHWHMystic

Gamers whine and complain. News at eleven.

SLoth_112

I thought Spore was gonna be awesome. but NO.... oh well.

Dogswithguns

@Nirolak: Just the fact that Spore was on torrent sites before it was even released demonstrates that the DRM is a total waste of time.

Brine

@Nirolak: Exactly, DRM is hurting the paying consumers -- it's not stopping piracy at all! In fact, it only encourages it...

YHWHMystic

I still don't understand how the consumer is "getting punished".

BallPtPenTheif

@InsidiousTuna: Even so, you can't stop people from complaining -- it's a protected constitutional right. If a criminal broke into your home and stole all the furniture, appliances and electronics inside, wouldn't you be pissed? Piracy is wrong, regardless of any reasons for doing it.

YHWHMystic

@Boozerz:
"This thing is getting more attention online than the election.

Funny."

...NOT funny, actually.

cmcginn

@InsidiousTuna: DRM would only make sense to me if it actually had any effect on stopping piracy.

I just checked and got 464 results for Spore on a torrent site, so obviously this isn't working and is only pissing off the customers that buy the product legitimately.

If DRM actually did something, I'd totally understand it, but since it doesn't, it seems like it's just there to pretend like they're doing something about piracy for investors.

Nirolak

@Ra is on Seinfeld: You haven't actually "bought" anything if it comes with DRM. Especially this kind of DRM.

badasscat

@InsidiousTuna: Except for the part that it doesn't work?

I think alot of people miss the point. It DOESN'T stop the hackers/piraters. The only ones who suffer the effects of SecuRom are the people who buy it legit and have to install SecuRom on their computer. SecuRom can stop basic functions of your computer from working. Then, you can't get rid of it, even if you install it.

Based on the description of how it works, it easily falls under the category of a virus.

SeraphX2

@L_K_M: "At press time, it appears that the vast majority of reviews had already returned" ^^

kw4k

I don't think ppl should be bitching at EA. They should bitch at all the cheap azz moe foes that pirate the games and do nothing but make the devs and publishers shy away from making pc games.

Razorwing

I think the reviews are already back, aren't they? I see them.

L_K_M

@Krooeenya: Tom Sawyer scene = whitewashing a fence. Amazon situation = whitewashing reviews.

Franklin Comes Alive!

@Ra is on Seinfeld: So not caring about something makes it ok to delete the opinions of people who do care? I do hope you never run for president or anything...

Agnates

@YHWHMystic: I don't think all this whining about DRM on games makes sense. People steal shit, especially computer games and music. This process makes sense to me.

InsidiousTuna

Now we wait for another 2000 reviews to pop up.

Ryumeka

@pasquinelli: I meant targeting specific games... although I do recall the big issues with the Mass Effect game.

Still.. I am so tired of reading "draconian DRM" in every other post.

goddessakasha

@goddessakasha: i think this is their attempt at reaching the masses since this is expected to reach the more casual market. not to say the other titles you've listed are not great, but this game will most likely target a wider demographic

kw4k

They also come with nice basic instructions most of the time.

Agnates

@verrius: Yeah like there's anyone who doesn't know of gamecopyworld or other such websites. Casual pirates aren't retarded you know, they can download and copy paste a file or two.

Agnates

@BallPtPenTheif: The game not functioning properly for everyone (obviously that's a given to PC games but DRM adds to that factor by a margin). Having limited installs or activations. Having to manually contact the publisher to resolve problems with the activations. Wondering if you'll be able to play your legally owned game 5 years down the line. Of course you could use cracks, but then if you're going doing something illegal. If you have no problem with being illegal, then you can just pirate it of course. But people who pay for their games would rather have the full support of the publisher, not be treated like criminals or have to feel like one for using an illegal crack, when the people who have no moral issues with legality enjoy a smoother experience throughout without any hassle. These are just examples, we really shouldn't begin another one of those discussions, I was just baffled if you really were that clueless in regards to the issues restrictive DRM like SecuRom can cause.

Agnates

@Krooeenya:
whitewashing is my guess.

mcscan

I agree with Amazon on this one. I dont care about DRM one way or the another. It could be in every game i buy, i still wouldn't care.

Ra is on Seinfeld

@MehGinla: If Spore spent 2 years out of the 8 years putting in a legit multiplayer component; it would not get pirated. I know they went through all the hoopla of creationism, 3rd party consultants, scientific articles to make a legit all-inclusive growth of life. Except it is too damn subtle for an average Joe to even fucking care. Did you honestly remember all the cell stage anemones that you remember in the space age?.

I tried to remember the other life forms that made it through one stage, and it is not apparent enough in the following evolving stage. It all looks like random Spore creation.

I don't see Blizzard ever complaining about pirates or putting in dickwad security measures. Pirates buy blizzard products knowing that 90% of the people won't even bother with the single player.

PsycheE

I don't understand how people can willingly and knowingly defend this kind of draconian DRM.

There is a difference between advocating a lack of intrusive and restrictive DRM and saying piracy is good.

If you can't see that, you need to grow the hell up.

GrandfatherParadox

@goddessakasha: i've been hearing complaints about securom for a while now.

pasquinelli

@InsidiousTuna: Could you at least elaborate on why you think it's not a big deal?

YHWHMystic

@mistersneak: Ugh...this dishonest argument that "only paying customers are affected by DRM" is really getting tired. Honestly. The purpose of DRM, in general, is to put the cost of casual piracy higher than most people are willing to bear.

So, yes, the die-hard, "I'll never pay for a video game ever cause I hate people" people will still be able to play the game free...but not without consequences. Cracked games often only are cracked far enough to allow people to start up the game; look at Titan Quest, where crackers only got it to start up, leaving in some "quit the game if this is not a legit install" stuff in the game. There's also the everpresent risk of getting a trojan.

What DRM does generally discourage is a more casual case of say, a person buying a copy and then "lending" it to house 3 or 4 housemates simultaneously.

verrius

I don't get the Tom Sawyer reference in the picture.

Krooeenya

mistersneak wrote:
"It's funny how hardcore they are about keeping SecuROM around, even though the game was CRACKED and TORRENTED --BEFORE-- the game's release! HA!

It's painfully obvious that ONLY PAYING CUSTOMERS suffer from DRM."

^^^ this

So it's not like people can't get their hands on the pirated copy. Why punish those who pay?

I think the solution is this; I'll download the DRM-free torrent, then send EA a check for $40... That will keep me from being a thief, and then it will also keep EA from punishing me for buying the Legit copy. Win/Win, though it seems like a lot of trouble to go through.

Nah, I think I'll just skip the game altogether.

Nside

@goddessakasha: They whined about those, perhaps not to that extent, but the publisher was forced to constant tweaks of the Bioshock DRM prior to release, and even afterwards, thanks to complaints like that. Mass Effect was also attacked. Spore being a much more mass market game obviously gets more complaints.

Agnates

@fuzzbuzz:

How so? What's the punishment?

BallPtPenTheif

@InsidiousTuna: Yep, good on Amazon that all reviews are returned and the genuine customer feedback remains.

Agnates

I don't remember so many people whining about this when.. oh, let's see....

Bioshock, Hellgate, Neverwinter Nights 2, C&C3, Tomb Raider Anniversary, Overlord, Stalker, or countless other games also had SecuROM.

I can't believe how many people will jump on a bandwagon thinking they are making some kind of a difference by whining on Amazon.com reviews.

goddessakasha

This thing is getting more attention online than the election.

Funny.

Boozerz

<3 pirates. You make it suck for the rest of us.

MehGinla

They're big silly-billies.

PatMan33

@bangbangblah: Thing is...Ninjabread Man has 1 and 1/2 stars!!

excel_excel

Waaaaaaaaaaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaah DRM waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Grow up. Please. Not a big deal. Good on Amazon, I say.

InsidiousTuna

THEY ARE STIFLING FREEDOM OF SPEECH! WE SHOULD ALL BOYCOTT AMAZON AND SPORE AND WRITE OUR CONGRESSMAN AND MARCH AND CAPITAL HILL!

And...we should...write an angry letter..and take Will Wright off our Myspace friends list and..

huff...puff....

I'm gonna go lie down...what's on tv?

Mister_Jack

I'm not a fan of the SecuROM, but I can see why Amazon did this. It was pretty frustrating / misleading how all of the customers were automatically giving it one star purely because of that issue. That one issue shouldn't put it with the likes of Ninjabread Man!

bangbangblah

I wish I'd known about this SecuROM before I'd bought it, seems you get punished for actually buying things these days.

fuzzbuzz

Those darn glitches. Always popping up in the most convenient of places.

Omnimon

It's a trick! Amazon is going to Rickroll us.

goat999

GIVE ME YOUR RAGE!!! RRAAAGEEEE FOR SPORE!!!

excel_excel

Looks like they're all back at the time of posting. It's rather breathtaking to see over 2,000 one star reviews on an Amazon product.

We are gamers, hear us roar.

antialias02

why so much hate to spore?

HELLSRIDER

It's funny how hardcore they are about keeping SecuROM around, even though the game was CRACKED and TORRENTED --BEFORE-- the game's release! HA!

It's painfully obvious that ONLY PAYING CUSTOMERS suffer from DRM. STOP DOING IT.

mistersneak

I won't buy it tell they remove the DRM. It is either that or pirate it and I'm not willing to do that yet.

Emperor_Guam

@BallPtPenTheif:

It's simple:

1. you are able to install game only 3 times - BUT if you change component of your PC (e.g. video card), you would lost one installation. When you are done with the limit, you can use your disc as cup pad or just throw out the window. in fact you are renting game, not buying it.

2. you are able to install your game only on ONE computer. Convenient especially if you would like install it on e.g. notebook and home pc.

3. SecuROM invades your system - it can block antivirus/antymalware programs (because they would try neutralize SR). SR will block your second CD/DVD drive (because you are pirate for sure). SR will block disc burning applications & virtual drives (because you're pirate for sure).

4. SecuROM use net connection to steal your personal data: configuration of your PC, list of programs etc. It's a crime.

5. When you uninstall Spore, you still have SR on your disc and system. Magic? No, it's a malware. It's working all the time for his creator.

SecuROM is used not to prevent piracy: it's used for fight with second hand market. Here you are:
[www.gamesindustry.biz]

Vojtas

@shimage: it is a very difficult problem.

pasquinelli

@pasquinelli: "DRM is needed, because it's so easy for one person to illegally make a game available to everyone with a bittorrent client."
---------------
I would argue that the ease with which an individual can share hacked copies of a game is precisely why DRM is futile.

shimage

"Oh! Wait a minute... what were we thinking?! We actually want to SELL this thing! Remove all the negative reviews, and the first one of you to mouth the word 'ethics' gets to spend the day cleaning his desk and take a permanent vacation! GO GO GO!"

fuchikoma

What if I buy it, but play the pirate version?

KeeganTheBrain

@Turambar: well, i did say securom was ill conceived. i, for one, think the only manageable approach is a physical marker on the top of the disk that can be read and verified. unfortunately that would require additional hardware. maybe in the next major storage format.

pasquinelli

To Punish EA:

1- don't buy Spore
2- Don't play Spore.

If you pirate it, you just add to EA's rationalization for DRM. If you completely ignore the product they might get the message.

kingmanic

@pasquinelli: That is a rather moot point given the speed at which Spore was made available on BT.

Turambar

False alarm, people!
It's back to one pathetic star out of five.

CosmicElement

@BallPtPenTheif: Surely the fact that the game becomes unplayable after all the activations are used up, ie. reinstalls due to computers dying/ pc upgrades. Or am I wrong here? Isn't that what SecuROM does?

fuzzbuzz

fvk it, im gonna buy the game and toss it in a drawer somewhere in my room and never open it. then im gonna illegaly download the game from demoniod or piratebay, some place where if its a virus people will scream "VIRUS!!!!! DONT DOWNLOAD" and install the DRM free version on my computer.

so in the end EA gets their monies and i gets my game i can install on the PC i reinstall XP on every week.
win win!

segamanxero

You could always download the cracked version and buy a legitimate key.

Benzak

@Boozerz: On video game sites, yes...

Roflcopter_Down: Wants you to follow HIM!

@Kral2: i will be so pedantic. DRM is needed, because it's so easy for one person to illegally make a game available to everyone with a bittorrent client. it shouldn't be cast in such a bad light because of one ill conceived implementation.

pasquinelli

The most casual gamer I know is the one that is most open to pirating. It's like she can't bear to pay money for anything except rims on her car. Whatever. All the gamers I know actually pay for stuff. So the argument that it's primarily technologically facile people that pirate, in my admittedly limited experience, does not stand.

One of my coworkers recently bought Spore. Unfortunately, he moved recently, and has no internet at the moment. He said that the manual describes a game that sounds quite fun, but, unfortunately, he can't install it.

This is what I would call a nuisance, and it's only a nuisance to law-abiding citizens. It's like those stupid FBI warnings on CDs and movies: the only people that see that shit are people that have already paid for the content. Is their goal to nag people into stealing stuff to get around this bullshit?

shimage

@Agnates:

I haven't bought a hard copy of a PC game in like 5 years. So, yeah, I am a bit out of the loop when it comes to this stuff.

BallPtPenTheif

If EA is smart, they will go with Bioshock's case and just remove it from Mass Effect and Spore. It is not helping them at all. And people who would've normally bought the game, will now pirate so they can get a drm-free spore copy. PLUS it got cracked and torrented 4 days before it was even released.

I think by adding DRM, they decrease sales in the long run anyway. Stupid move.

Solid_hedgehog

@YHWHMystic:

Yes, I willfully ignored a post (sarcasm)...

....

You need to calm down.

And it's 3 installs and then you have to call EA customer support to install it again. Yes, that's a pain in the ass but let's not get hystrionic and call it "punishment".

BallPtPenTheif

@pasquinelli: I meant SecuROM, of course. (Next time I won't reply so hastily.)

YHWHMystic

@Nside: People still buy CD's?

Basically, if anyone read a Software License before the great SecuROM scandal, they'd realize they've never ever in fact "owned" a piece of software. They simply paid for a license to use that software.

I've also never understood why people have a habit of wiping Windows from their hard drives so often. Do you honestly accumulate that much memory resident programs that the only way to get your PC back to factory fresh is by completely nuking the OS every few months??

goddessakasha

Why are people saying pirates are to blame for the complaints? Pirates don't deal with the DRM as it's been removed in their copies

They are the cause of the problem and the reason DRM was created. Oh and thanks to the dude that explained some the issues with DRMS.

Razorwing

@pasquinelli: Don't be so pedantic - in this case, the DRM is being used to restrict the number of times you can install the software. We know what he meant.

Kral2

@YHWHMystic: DRM doesn't restrict the number of times you can install software on a computer. DRM (digital rights management) is a generic term.

pasquinelli

@InsidiousTuna: i dont get it...people put up warnings so consumers dont get boned on a faulty product with shitty DRM. Amazon (temporarily) took this down, people took it as censoring and thereby misleading consumers.
how is that good on them?

TheIrishNinja

@belo:

nah just joking. Totally to stop pirates!

Vecha

@eggnog007: It's called a whitewash.

AokiShinya

They KNOW they can't stop pirates, but they sure as hell can squeeze a little more out of the revenue stream from law-abiding people. I didn't buy BioShock, and I'm not buying Spore. I am not going to encourage these people.

rationalvoid

@Vecha: lol seriously?

belo

I don't think this should be news if it was fixed already lol.

mfwahwah

This actually makes me WANT to pirate the game, whereas before I wouldn't have even considered it.
I am not going to pay a company $50 to rent a game. Hell, I have issues paying the $8 rental fee at Blockbuster....
I went through all this SecuROM nonsense with Bioshock, and I'm not in a hurry to do it all again.

Erode

Haha, how dare consumers inhibit the right of a corporation to make money by posting bad reviews and statements toward a product!

Good on, Amazon and EA! We can't let people have the upper hand on corporations these day, can we?

quadmonkey

Securom is what has stopped me from buying several new PC games.

What's wrong with a simple online CD key check and a Disc in Drive check? :(

Dave Silva

They didn't install securom for pirates.

They installed it so that once you used the 3 install...you'd buy another copy.

It's that simple people.

Vecha

Lets look at it this way. Your average person probably reformats they're pc every now and then. You can do this a max amount of 5 times before Spore is unplayable. PC gamers are often building new PC's in order to play the latest games. Throw that in as well with the reformatting your OS and in a couple of years, you'll have a dead copy of Spore.

Now take into consideration an old game as an example, if you will. Starcraft is 10 years old. Over the years, i've personally changed PC roughly 3 times, reformatted my OS dozens of times. If Starcraft contained the same DRM as Spore, i'd never be able to play the game again without having to buy a new copy of the game multiple times. With Spores DRM, EA are literally saying. "Look, you can play the game now but in 3 years or so, if you still want to play, buy a new copy".

I'm personally not going to support Spore but a lot of people will either because they don't understand how the DRM works, or don't care. In the end i only hope EA will actually care what their customers think, because its us that buy the game legally that are getting screwed. Not the pirates.

Walker

@pasquinelli: DRM is not the solution to that problem. It never will be. Encryption theory 101.

@goddessakasha: Just because an EULA says something doesn't make it legal. I've seen numerous EULAs over the years with clauses that would be thrown out of court (and have been on occasion).

MattB

Site glitch.....riiiiiiiiiight. This types of responses wont happen if you don't treat your customer like criminal. Most laws and restrictive behavior never hurt the criminal, they hurt person who follows the rule. You make guns harder to get, the criminal still gets them illegally and you make it harder for the lawful citizen to defend them selves. Same thing here, you put a type of DRM on something, the pirate still gets an illegal copy and its now more of a hassle for the paying consumer to use it. Completely missed the target.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

@eggnog007:

Seriously? You don't understand how Tom Sawyer fits into the story?

Really? Have you never read the story? Do you know what "white washing" is?

LaserJudas

@Benzak: @segamanxero: @KeeganTheBrain: Then you're still adding to the statistics of piracy however. And are likely still illegal in various ways.

Agnates

?

care to explain the relation between Tom Sawyer and the news?

eggnog007

People are quick to blame pirates for EA's decision to use SecuROM, but I think if you analyze the situation a little closer and consider their possible motivations, you come to a slightly different conclusion.

The conclusion that I came to is that EA is trying to normalize non-transferable licensing of games to increase lifetime sales.
Search your feelings; you know it to be true.

VishusBurn

I purchased the galactic edition, then downloaded and installed the bittorrent version. I don't need to worry about burning my installs that way.

subject117

Whitewashing, Doh!

I'm officialy stoopid.

Krooeenya

@Koldenblue: No no. Don't blame pirates for DRM. Don't blame GameStop for DRM. Blame EA for Spore's DRM. I don't like buying things used from GameStop, but I will hand off games to whomever I damn well please when I'm done with them. Any company that wants to get in the way of that doesn't need my money. I'm sure they'll still be profitable, but I won't have any of it.

shimage

@Xagest:

Pirates don't "get" liberties, they pillage them!

So far digital purchases haven't yielded any problems for me and I find it convenient to have a virtual storage site off my hard drive for all my purchased content.

BallPtPenTheif

I hate how pirates get more liberties than legitimate consumers.

It's the same with music. If you buy music online, chances are it is DRM'd. This means you can't move it off your harddrive (if you have to reformat, just hope your service lets you redownload, or you might have to buy it again). You'll be lucky if you can transfer it to your non-IPOD music player with no additional fee. Hell, if you want to use it as a ring tone, you better hope your phone doesn't force you to re-buy it in their proprietary ring-tone format.

Or you can pirate the song and be able to do anything with your song without any red tape.

Xagest

Over 2000 1 star reviews. It looks to be fixed^^.

equalsign

Would someone please explain what the problem with SecuROM is? Why are people mad about it?

Xemnas

The DRM doesn't stop piracy at all. It's just as easy to pirate Spore as it is to pirate any other PC game. What it does stop is the used game market. People can't go out and buy used copies of Spore due to the limited installs. Therefore EA makes more money because people have to buy new copies from them.

So if anything, I'd blame companies that sell used games like Gamestop, not the pirates, for the DRM. The pirates just seem like more of a scapegoat in this case.

Koldenblue

The DRM was engineered by Sony? Damn..... I really wanted Spore, but not willing to risk another root kit fiasco.

robinandtami

Waiting for Spore SP2.

bird1988

@y2julio:

Actually they only deleted the reviews that slammed Cooper that had nothing to do with her book, Amazon accepts criticism directly related the product, not what someone said.

Thunder-1

@PsycheE: "I don't see Blizzard ever complaining about pirates or putting in dickwad security measures"

Ever hear of Warden?

sqlrob

@shimage: You're right, I do blame EA, not Gamestop. But I think the reasoning behind the DRM has to do more with the used game market rather than piracy. The DRM stops used game sales, not piracy.

Koldenblue

Amazon DOES delete reviews. They deleted all the "reviews" that people left on Cooper Lawrence's book on Amazon that were flaming here regarding Mass Effect, even the clean ones and only left the positive ones.

y2julio

Seeing how these things usually turn out when it comes to Amazon, this just gives bad press, and thus there will be a STORM of bad reviews for Spore now, me thinks.

Quilt

@MattB: On the same topic. How often does Windows fail so gracefully to even give you the opportunity to uninstall before reformat? I think the people saying that Suckurom is good haven't had their computers crash because of it... and have certainly never tried to remove SecuRootkit. It hides itself from windows so it cannot be deleted. Hey... sounds like a virus, right?

RStormgull

@Xemnas: There are a number of issues with SecuROM, but the version used on Spore only allows three "activations". Installing the game uses an activation each time. Changing hardware such as your video card can count as an activation. Uninstalling the game does not return activations so if you remove it and then re-install it two years from now you'll need to use another activation. Any additional activations are granted at EA's discretion, and given reports from earlier similar DRM systems it seems they'll be reluctant to do so.

MattB

@excel_excel: Laugh with me Wright, LAUGH!!!

Hunter217

Waiting for new version, the badly needed aquatic stage, and way more gameplay for each stage

bird1988

@bangbangblah:

Actually, yeah it should. The only way intrusive and ineffective DRM can be stopped is by making it unprofitable.

arstal

@sqlrob: I wouldn't call warden a dickwad security measure. I definitely wouldn't say it interferes with normal use like SecuROM does.

Aex

@MattB:

Thanks for telling me! I really appreciate it. Man, that is stupid. So, if I'm going to get a new graphics card, I might as well wait for this game. I now know that I hate SecuROM. The pirates won't have any problems, though.

Xemnas

Oh WOW! LOOK, MORE CORPORATE SCUMBAGS COLLUDING TOGETHER. Make no mistake here, that was clearly intentional, you'd have to be a fucking retard to think differently. Amazon NEVER told people about the restrictive DRM in the product they were selling. Spore, when you buy it, is a RENTAL. You do not own the game with limited installs, period. Make sure future purchasers know this.

The outlandish thing is, the asshole pirates already cracked it and removed the DRM scheme BEFORE the game launched! If this doesn't prove to the empty suits that Securom doesn't work, I don't know what does....

dozerking

Funny how often avalanches of negative reviews routinely seem to go missing due to "glitches" on that site.

Miss-Anthropy

@RStormgull: I work for a small branch of a large software development company and when I'm not coding I double as the hardware/sysadmin guy. While I can get Windows back on it's feet after most problems there are still times where it's simply unrecoverable as you say. Hard drive failures are a good example and these unfortunately they're fairly common.

MattB

Not sure if someone's said this already, because I definitely am not going to read through all the comments...

But all the reviews are back up. All 2000+ of them.

tzaketh

@goddessakasha: maybe thats because barring bioshock, nobody gave a shit about those titles and played them on consoles (barring neverwinter nights 2)

@verrius: you only get trojans if you pirate the game on fucking limewire and completely forget to you know, run scans on shit you download.

@Xemnas: you need the internet to install.. okay who gives a shit about that everyone has the internet. But you're limited to installing the software 3 times, so what happens if you have a desktop, and 2 laptops. Or a few desktops in your home? You're fucked. Or as EA would like to say "buy more of our $50 products"

@Koldenblue: Agreed. Thats where SecuRom came from. Sony did the patent with the eventual intent of having next-gen PS games ONLY run on the system they are FIRST inserted in. Saying GOODBYE! to used video games, because once you play it you'd have to sell the console WITH the game. Take that GameStop.

johnwonderbread

I still don't understand what the big deal is. I have Spore, I play it, I like it. This isn't getting in my way.

NeonLight

"venting how underwhelming the game felt after years of hype"

When are people going to learn that falling for hype is their own fault, not the makers of the game? Besides, the coverage for Spore has pretty much said exactly what you do in the game, so people really don't have an excuse to blame them when they don't like it.

justhesh

Amazon reviews are for the package/item presented. In many cases this is the content of the game itself (which many of the Spore reviews I read explicitly stating that the game itself was good) in this case they were marking it down for the DRM. The DRM comes with the game, not as an option but as a necessity. Sure some people are just bandwagoning and just shouting to shout, but many people have a fundamental beef with the SecureRom system.

Hell I just got a new computer and bought Bioshock on Steam to try it out. I have yet to actually install the game because I found out it had SecureRom and don't want /anything/ backdoor installing onto my computer... Hmm, kind of a grey area, but I wonder about the legality of pirating something you actually own, since that version is DRM free. The company would probably shout that it's breaking the EULA or altering the presented product..

Parsifal

And to clarify my point (just had an eye exam and my eyeballs are numb...feels funky). The product package on sale can be seen to be: 1 game (Spore): Includes - 1 DVD-Rom game - 1 Instruction Manual - Bad case of digital herpes (SecureRom).

For the people marking it down to one star, that involuntary option is bad enough to mark down the whole package. According to the rules, they are well within their right to single out a feature/function and complain about it. As long as they don't start commenting on other reviews ("Guy X is stupid! This Rox!"), getting "inappropriate" or posting/linking to outside content they are fine to say whatever they want about the item.

Parsifal

Amazon pulls stuff like this all the time.

SolidEyeSystem

@bangbangblah:

The misleading part is having only 3 activations for a game you purchased and having no mention of it on the box or on Amazon's web page where it is purchased. They were just trying to inform the less up to date customers.

okkervil

@NeonLight: It's more that it hasn't yet got in your way. Maybe you'll be lucky and it never will.

Equally though you may one day install Spore on a new computer only to find you have no activations left. You may find the DRM starts causing issues with your optical drive (as other DRM systems have done in the past). There may be a security hole in the SecuROM driver which allows hackers to take over your machine (Hasn't happened yet, but it's surprisingly possible).

You may find the risk is acceptable and that's fine, but to others it is a big deal. To each their own really.

MattB

@johnwonderbread:

SecureROM and StarForce are easily trojans

Any Windows computer I have will *NEVER* be on the internet, so activating via internet is not a possibility for me.

sqlrob

The reviews are still there..

[www.amazon.com]

theEnemy

And EA still doesnt get it

Altima NEO

Xennas: Quick answer is, SecuROM changes certain things in your system registry, and isn't always effective even when you do everything right. Furthermore, it's presence is rather difficult to remove. For a longer answer, do a google search.
I don't like SecuROM and haven't bought software that has it. However, Amazon reviews are supposed to be reviews, not a private blog to rail against the gaming industry. If you were to mention the DRM in the context of a discussion about the whole game that's different. But going on about DRM without talking about the game is absurd. It'd be like writing a CD review, railing against the record industry without mentioning the music on the CD. Or a DVD review that fails to mention the movie in its tirade against the MPAA. There's a place to do these things, and Amazon is not it. Posting reviews on Amazon is not a right. It's their forum, they make the rules. They're pretty good about having multiple perspectives. I've said enough.

AllegraStreit

you know what i like? i like how in itunes, you get to authorize computers for drm protected music. sure, i hate drm, but at least apple gives you the choice of what computers to play it on. and you can even decide to remove all authorization to make sure that old computer you sold your cuz won't play all that boyzIImen you would rather keep to yourself.

subterfunk

@AllegraStreit: Actually, it's rather fitting on a game review, because, you know, it's obviously important for some people, even you don't buy a game that has it, so these reviews do a good job of informing potential buyers this particular game has that software and this particular game may cause all such issues and this particular game doesn't have to have such software because other games don't and he can buy those instead, where a publisher doesn't risk your PC's well being by putting such software inside it.

Agnates

@sqlrob: So Securom was an anti-hacking program(because warden sure as hell isn't DRM)? That's news to me(and everybody in the world, except you)!

mizeriq

Buy Spore...

If DRM stops you download the crack, not the full game.

Problem solved.

DRM is here to stay thanks to people downloading games. And If you download games because they have DRM in some lame protest, you are just going to make the problem worse.

Infamous.mpgEU

@mizeriq:

Anticopying is DRM, not all DRM is anticopying.

So with Warden do you still have the RIGHT to run anything you want on your DIGITAL computer?

sqlrob

@Infamous.mpgEU: It's not my responsibility to clean up the mess EA made. I'm not going to buy Spore, only to have it essentially crash my system (like Bioshock did) and say "Well, EA knows best, I'll just work around it"
For $50, I expect to OWN and be able to PLAY that game without it eating my computer from the inside out.

Erode

@subterfunk: i hate that system because i think its a deauthorize all every 6 months, but I have 5 computers, can go through more than 5 computers in 6 months, and I reinstall OSs which means reinstalling itunes making me authorizing the same computer more than once if I forget to deauthorize. Meaning, most computers I use can't even play my iTunes music.

Shockadin

Of all the millions of products, it just happens to be Spore?

Shockadin

i was looking forward to spore, but meh.... i'll find better games.

andrewmedina

Looks like Mr. Wright has a little corporate ace up his sleeve.

Benjo

@equalsign: It's fixed for me too.

thecrimsonalchemist2

@verrius:

"look at Titan Quest, where crackers only got it to start up, leaving in some "quit the game if this is not a legit install" stuff in the game. There's also the everpresent risk of getting a trojan."

Er yeah, did you buy Titan Quest? The problems affected legitmate customers too. In fact the developers admitted that most of the problems after release were caused by the fact that they couldn't tell whether they were coming from pirated versions or legitimate versions and thus made it much more difficult to fix.
The game is still buggy even after a patch and Immortal Throne didn't make the situation any better.

Duoae

There's no way I'm buying this until this security thing is removed.

blueshoals

So the game was on the internets beore the game was released effectively rendering the DRM thingy worthless. Why not just remove it and subside the doubts of customers holding off because of the security thing?

Messypandas

Amazon is full of BS. EA is now actively removing and banning people from their forums and the Spore forums for complaining about the DRM.

The DRM is just one issue on a list of things that went really wrong with this game.

BigDragon

Amazon can do what it wants with it's own site.

Why the big fuss?

NintendoFanBoy64

@goddessakasha: "I've also never understood why people have a habit of wiping Windows from their hard drives so often."

I don't reload it, I revert back to a minimalist disk Image I have on a network drive. It takes me 7 minutes, to get back to a nice clean defragmented version of windows and a few basic programs. the whole process takes about 20 to 30 minutes because I then update windows and re-save the image back to the Network drive. Sometimes, If there's a program I found that I use quite often since the last back-up, I'll install that before making an image.

Why do I do it? Well, #1, it's faster and more reliable than a virus scan. #2, it's faster than going through the list of programs and uninstalling anything I thought I'd use all the time, but only ended up using once or twice. It's easier than installing a program to hunt down registry errors and incorrect file paths. ...etc...

Now, I don't expect everyone to do things the way I do, but then I get the benefit of trying out programs without worry that they'll screw up my system. I also don't have game files for games I haven't played in 3 years on my HDD either.

Is that enough reason? You may not agree, but it's how I do things, and works quite nicely.

Nside

@pasquinelli: Then smarten up. It's not actually DOING anything, it's only hurting the paying customers.
DRM never HAS and likely never WILL stop pirates. Limiting someone's legit purchase to 3 installs and then making it useless is just ridiculous.

Superlocke

@kingmanic:

But its so fun....

I just share the copy with my friend. He installed it on his laptop(because its not like spore takes much to run) and i get away with a Spore clean pc!

Sorshha

I will never buy anything with a DRM that mucks with my OS.

Especially not after the history they have with audio CDs and DRM shenanigans.

They're scum.

dcartist

And whats with the every 10 day activation?? so if your internet is gone for more then 10 days, you CANT play your legal bought game...

worst copy protection in history

I mean hell, even with Steam, after the first on-line authentication, you can put Steam in offline mode and play it without the 'net forever.

Pacha

*****

Ice-9

this utter bullshit obviously. i won't be shopping at amazon anymore. this is inexcusable. A customer should be treated more fairly than this.

Xtreme_Hindu_Cow

What happened is pretty obvious, one employee decided to delete it all and the higherups found out about it and decided they didn't want to allow it.

It's disturbing that there does not seem to be any alerts to others when things are deleted, there seems to be nothing stopping someone getting a job at Amazon (not exactly hard, it's hardly high-brow work) and silently removing bad reviews on certain publishers, editing, etc - if it was not done on such a large scale, no one would've ever noticed how biased Amazon were.

deathkittin