Fun Fact: That's what is known as a "Hitler's Tash" master in the industry.

If anyone asks for one, chuck them out your studio.

Houseofcuss

@Samicham85:

Yeah, did you not read the last line in the article?

"and remember, we're talking about sound quality here folks, not whether or not you actually like Metallica."

I don't see any sort of negativity directed towards Metallica's latest album.

landonkun

@KSPRAYDAD: pwnin noobs

gekko3558

Damn thats really noticeable.

Anaralia

@Samicham85:

I don't necessarily think they're trying to bring the band's work down, but moreso how the CD was mixed and brought to their fans. As you can see the songs DO exist in a must cleaner and better state in the GH tracks.

JocktheMotie

@Clarke: Haha I agree with that haha. I don't care how much Kotaku wants to bring down Metallica's latest Album, I love it, and I listen to it a lot. I also like the GH tracks, it's fun to play the songs.

Samicham85

Wow big difference. And I actually liked that song they were playing. I'm typically a Melodic-Death Metal/Power Metal fan, but that wasn't half bad.

Seems like the CD version lacks any real "depth" to the sound. You can tell some subtleties were mixed out of the CD version. And this is just the youtube comparison. Imagine if you have a good sound setup? Will sound terrible.

JocktheMotie

@SS Ymer: Do you have the CD? The day I picked this up I thought every speaker and headphone in my house had somehow blown at the same time. It sounds awful.

dowingba

It's not fair to judge any sound quality when youtube isn't even CD quality.

Clarke

This video doesn't really provide a good example. Literally 5 seconds after the last bit they compare would have been a better sample. The fast snare hits are just a total mess on the CD version.

It's really unfortunate because I think this album is an absolute masterpiece aside from the laughably bad sound quality.

dowingba

Guitar hero version > CD version.

Any way I can get the MP3s for the GH version instead?

Batteries-Included

Yeah big difference from dynamic to wall. I've been EQ'ing music for years now and learned my lesson long ago. You do not want a wall of sound. It will sound like crap in stereo systems and have a noticeable "grainy" distorted effect.

RYAMATSU

Does it strike anyone else how backwards it is to compare sound quality in a youtube video? Wasn't it only recently that they allowed stereo sound?

Fangeh

There is a bit of difference in the quality. I've heard that the trend for CDs is that there is a reduction on dynamic range of the music that is being put out. I don't think I'm using the right word, but a reduction in the difference between the highs and lows. Seems like it rears its ugly head in this album.

sleepfortheweak

The CD sounds really. Im not sure how to say it. Flat?

DarkHavoc99

Compared like this I can hear quite a difference but I probably never would have figured anything was wrong had I only heard the CD-version.

SS Ymer

The Day That Never Comes is probably the worst clipping out of the bunch :\

That being said, it's still an amazing record.

LULCATS

Hey Metallica...I just used FLV.TO to rip the music from that video to mp3.

KSPRAYDAD

Wow, you can really tell. The GH version definitely has a thickness to it. Shame Metallica, shaaaaaame.

D_DubDSU

you can even spot the difference visually lol...

islandknight

It's not something I would have noticed if it wasn't presented side by side like this, but the Guitar Hero version definitely sounds a little better.

DanielC

I'm listening through speakers at work (Which I admit isn't ideal)..but the only thing I really noticed was the cymbals in the GH version seem a bit more pronounced.

Spandy

Woah.. there really is a big difference in the sound..

CockroachMan

Woah. Now that's some serious difference. I wonder if the guys in the booth didn't get the GH and CD versions swapped or something, because that's crazy that they'd release a CD like that with the quality being... meh.

As for the band, they should have stopped back at S&M, when they could have gone out on a high note. That was a good album.

Salen

That is actually a significant difference. The most glaringly obvious is the end (20 seconds in) where the cymbal crashes are mixed out completely. The GH version actually looks (and sounds, based on YouTube) like a more musically complete version, but that also depends on Metallica's intent with the mixing.

Yes, I am an audio geek, and yes, you really can tell the difference between a 128 and a 192 MP3 file.

cendojr

@Bedlam: Thx, I was just being a n00b =D I just saw a video about the "Loudness Wars" that explained what's lost. It's a little boneheaded to want to make every element of sound loud, but I can see the logic behind it too... everyone on the band wants to stand out equally, so everyone winds up getting muddled! Rock star egos FTW.

greyhoundbus

@ShaggyB: i would've thought that studio produced cds would be meant to be cleaner/crisp and that other versions (live, etc.) are meant to sound grittier. though gh is a simulation of playing it live, i do agree it should sound clean so it feels more like you're playing it.

phrequency

I downloaded the album via torrents before the release and it actually sounded better then the cd release. hopefully they fix this somehow or everyone is just gonna download and there just gonna be in the same boat they were a few years ago. please dont send the metallica police after me

evetssteve

Wow. That's awful. And sad to say, I own the vinyl version and it's not much better than the CD. I thought about EQing it a little in Audacity before putting on my iPod to see if that would help, but I'm worried I'd put all that effort in for little or no results for the better...

@JocktheMotie: @landonkun: The last line in the article ("and remember, we're talking about sound quality here folks, not whether or not you actually like Metallica.") was referring to the previous article about the sound quality of this album, where almost everyone that posted was too busy trolling about how Metallica had sold out instead of discussing the sound quality like they were supposed to be.
On that note, Brian, can we please swing the banhammer at these idiots a little more? I'm tired of every time the subject of Metallica pops up the entire thread becomes a clusterfuck of oldschool metalheads BAWING about how Metallica's last good album was And Justice for All...

@greyhoundbus: It doesn't help, dude. Trust me. It just makes the clipping more pronounced.

MakoAoyama

interesting... there seems to be a difference. at the very least, the cymbals are more prominent in the gh version. the cd version sounds kinda mushed up for a lack of a better term.

it's like they totally just created the master tracks via gh, and just did a save as (with compression) to cd...

phrequency

GH sounds cleaner. Though Metallica seems to have wanted the cd to sound dirtier.... more gritty. Truthfully ive noticed that some songs on GH 3 sounded cleaner than the cd versions i had in my rack o cd's....

Im not sure i follow why people care soo much. The cd is the way the band wanted the music to come across to the listener. Same as the version in GH3 in that Guitar hero wanted a cleaner you feel like you are playing it version.

ShaggyB

wow. as an audiophile myself, the difference is crystal clear.

i dl the album early on torrent, and immediately said, "damn this album kicks ass" so i said fuck it, i will wait for retail cd to get better audio bitrate. i even went as far as encoding it at 256 kbps which i rarely do for an cd. the rest is history.

this should be a cautionary tale to all sound engineers working on ANY album. mastering means keep levels LEVELED! if i know its a fucking Metallica album. obviously im gonna crank the shit outta my speakers...... don't take the fun away from me doing that, and fuck up a great album in the process.

zanzibarlegend

You know what's funny? The most over-compressed, squashed, zero-dynamic-range album I've heard in recent times that actually made me say "what the HELL were they thinking?!"... Paul McCartney, Memory Almost Full. It's a lot more jarring with something like that than with Metallica, where everything is already loud and distorted right from the source.

Bogart Shwadchuck

They aren´t trying to bring the band or the cd down.

This is a common discussion on every music forum that I participate, for example, especially sevenstring.org, this subject has more than 14 forum pages of discussion because the quality of the album is ridiculous. Being a guitarrist for 17 years (and a gamer for roughly the same time, or a little more) I feel bad for Metallica for not taking care of this issue. They should just give away new cds to everyone who bought them with a new master, or, give a free GHIII download to them! hehehe

lucasreis

@Mycool: GH3 Rips are already everywhere on the internet.... just google for it! But still buy the CD or the GH-Version just to be on the right side .. moral-wise

Bedlam

@Clarke: I agree about youtube being a really fair comparison tool, and I would like to know just how audio was captured and compressed with both cd and GH versions. On the other hand this is a problem in the music industry as a whole, especially with the metal genre. I think its interesting that Jon Schaffer talks about this exact problem and trying to avoid it in the newest iced earth album "The Crucible of Man: Something Wicked Part 2". An album that was also release earlier this month. However I think that Metallica have released a descent sounding album this time around, and its a good thing that fans are calling attention to sub par production quality. After all St. anger sounded like it was mixed in their basement but nobody cared because the album sucked.

TorchedIce

Even with all the compression YouTube puts through the audio, a blind test (minimized browser) definitely shows that the CD version is squashed compared to the Guitar Hero tracks.

It would be great if there was a way to get a lossless version of the GHIII masters, but since the DLC is also already compressed...

gotroot801

I'm reminded a bit of Spore. I'm planning on dropping coin on the album... AND I'm considering going to a shady website to get the higher quality, superior product illegal version so I can listen to that instead. Smooth move, guys.

The difference is pretty obvious. I had the same problem when I bought RHCP's Californication awhile back. I LOVED the bass in Parallel Universe... and on the album, it's just gone, and in its place is a painful to listen to, scratchy and loud treble. Thanks a bundle, record industry jackholes!

Twoflower

@greyhoundbus: haha, you said it yourself .... the expert-thing

This is a real issue. You can't bring the dynamics back by fiddling with the equalizer or volume. It's lost sound information on the CD.

Bedlam

@landonkun: I thiiink what they meant to say was kotaku as in the readers/commenters, just cause alot of people have been negative towards Metallica and/or their latest album, people are just born haters i guess lol

DarthMetalHope

Man this is depressing, I love this album, but I noticed the problem the first time I listened to the CD in my car on my way home from buying it. I kept trying to adjust the bass on my car stereo because it didn't sound right (other CD's sound fine so it's not the stereo system). And then after ripping it to my Zune (@ 256 kbps)it sounds even worse. As someone asked earlier, is there any way to rip the GH versions to mp3?

Mycool

Damn, if it sounds that different in a heavily compressed Flash movie (a la YouTube) then imagine how much more noticeable it must be heard from the direct sources.

endekks

wow im surprised that i can actually hear the difference. Oh well, i'm still enjoying my CD AND the GH DLC version...I really dont care if they sound a tiny bit different.

And thank you Brian for that last sentence, since the last article on this problem turned into nothing but Metallica bashing, which annoyed me.

DarthMetalHope

yup, GH is defo higher quality, what a shame...

FenderMaster

I'm no audio expert, but it doesn't seem like a problem that turning up the treble on the CD wouldn't solve!

Haha... ok nvm.

greyhoundbus

Wow... for noticing the difference through a youtube video, the CD version must be really crappy.

Makoto

The fact that you can tell the difference on a youtube video speaks volumes, imagine comparing on a decent sound system where you can pick up all the detail.

Vilrak

With the better recordings being those ripped from Guitar Hero, you have to think that Metallica must be pretty pissed with all these people preferring what are essentially pirated rips of their CD.

It might sell more on Guitar Hero, but after Metallica's big Napster hissy-fit I can't see them being too pleased with this predicament.

Hendrixx

@chenry: LOL.

That is all.

greyhoundbus

Yes, the GH version sounds better to me. But the CD version isn't riddled with the plinks, plunks, and general sounds of me sucking ass at GH.

chenry

I'll say that while GH is obviously better, its still just a polished turd. Honestly, it is great that you can tell a solid thump from the kick drum, or that the cymbals aren't just static background noise, but it is still sub par at best either way. I empathize with GH for having to scrub their hardest to make it salvageable. It's great that bands don't want to sound "over produced" (which is like saying you want to sound bad because you're like, you know, deep, and raw, and stuff), but if anyone needs to be better produced, it is metal bands. When you're playing so fast (and this isn't even half the speed of some bands), how can your efforts be fully appreciated if you can't even distinguish the sounds you were making? So please, Metallica, no excuses. Oh, and kudos to whoever edited this image to include lyrics.
[4.bp.blogspot.com]

TheRunningboard7

@Eumenides: What does the end of this article say?

"and remember, we're talking about sound quality here folks, not whether or not you actually like Metallica."

That's what I thought. Stay on topic, your opinion of the band isn't needed here. Only what you think of the sound quality.
Learn2Kotaku

MakoAoyama

@MakoAoyama: Oh ok. Guess I may have been too quick to assign blame.

Actually... I was just saying what *I* would be thinking if I was a rock star. "Make me LOUDER man!!!"

greyhoundbus

Also why is the GH version better than the CD version??

Who bothers to do the same job twice?

Also why didn't the sound engineer turn to metallica and say, "this is sh!t, make it better or you'll have garbage sound quality"

Eumenides

ahahahahaha, as a musician myself, I can tell you this:

"sound quality" + "heavy metal" is an oxymoron; metal may rock, but it is completely overdriven, lacks tonal qualities and dynamics. Just turn it up to 11 and listen until your ears start bleeding...

Anyway, doesn't GH use the masters? Albums, especially digital releases, are compressed. You can clearly see the compression at work during the "CD" section of the youtube vid. And yes, that DOES MEAN the sound quality has been affected. Of course, unless you are running very high-end audio equipment and actually know what the hell you should be listening for, you won't notice. So, who really gives a damn?

ninja_warrior

@RYAMATSU: Unless you are phil spector.....

Yes there is a difference, but i don't listen to metallica. So I don't really care that their CD has shitty mastering compared to GH. It just shows the lack of care or respect to their fans. But then again this band who said all their fans are thieves. Par for the course or breaking new ground, you decided.

Also all the songs are too long! Some interesting guitar work and stuff but i get bored listening to it. It sounds like they tried to make it epic by making it long. I just hope this record doesn't get radio play. I'd rather listen to 5 mins of boring pop than then 8 mins of boring metal. A total saving of 3 mins of my life.

Eumenides

@greyhoundbus: You have to consider that it might not even be Metallica that did it, though. It could be the record company's doing more than anything.

Take Rush's Vapor Trails album from 2002, for example. It was clipped all to hell and back, too. If you know anything about Rush as a band, they aren't a loud band by nature. They're freakin' progressive rock. The clipping on that album ruined it for a lot of people, even though it was a great album.

MakoAoyama

Put it this way: if you can hear the difference on youtube, then the CD must be utter shit. Not like youtube is known for its excellent sound quality.

Jamez

@MakoAoyama: Oh, totally. In the end though, it was still dynamic range anorexia. Just sounds like somebody let their 3 year old twiddle the compressor/eq knobs, and dumped it straight to master.

avconsumer2

@Samicham85: Now, now everyone, they were just trying to return to the formula that worked well for them in the 80s, like the poor production values that went into the excellent songs on ...And Justice For All

I love this album (and would love it more if Unforgiven III didn't exist) but I can only turn it up so loud on my mp3 player before my ears cry about the quality. It hasn't stopped me from listening to Justice over and over in the past though, so it won't stop me this time either.

mjn328

@The_Atomic_Pod: Didn't you read the last sentence! Oh sorry, you can't read!

neoraul20

I don't have much of an ear, but yeah, I can hear that. GH version wins.

As for the music, it wasn't until the end of the clip that I realized that the switch from GH to CD was actually double playing the sequences in question. I think I'm so used to Metallica's clumsily repetitive hooks of late (see St. Anger) that I figured it to be the content of an actual guitar solo!

Yeah, like I said. Not much of an ear. :)

gamegrump

The difference is huge visually. Just look at the dips and peaks in the audio for Guitar Hero versus those for the CD.

DugDawg

@The_Atomic_Pod: I guess there had to be at least one douchebag...did you not see the last line in the post?

Gray665

@avconsumer2:...And Justice for all had some muddying of the bass, almost a clashing drone sound on some songs, St. Anger felt like the treble was too high and the bass buried. Both, mixing problems (though I think Justice suffers from a tuning problem somewhere).

Is this what happens when Metallica gets a new bassist? Every one of these albums had a new bassist (Newstead, Rock and Truillo), maybe the veteren guys are still playing the old garage band game of volume wars though the mixing process?

Lizard_King

once again,

a metallica thread in which the majority can't even stay on topic, even with Brian's request.

@MakoAoyama: have to agree with you, to be honest.

@Eumenides: if you would rather listen to 5 minutes of pop, than 8 minutes of metal, perhaps you should voice you thoughts on a pop thread. just a thought.

zanzibarlegend

@avconsumer2: Yes, but the problem with AJFA was more a lack of a bottom end than it was anything else. Hetfield recorded all the bass parts himself, and from what I've gathered he wasn't to comfortable doing that in Cliff's absence. Which is understandable, really.
The guitars could have been mixed a little more pronouced, I guess. But there was no real clipping that I can remember(maybe the drums a little).

MakoAoyama

@The_Atomic_Pod: I'd say it has more to do with the fact that it's being hosted and played on YouTube. YouTube itself compresses sound to hell and back. This is about the worst place you could post a sound quality comparison to.

HOWEVER. Look at the waveforms. They're a lot more telling. The CD waveform is maxed out almost the entire time. The GH waveform has a lot more headroom and is a lot more dynamic. The GH recording is clearly a better mixdown even without having to listen to a decent sample.

badasscat

if you dont really hear a difference try some decent headphones. It becomes glaringly obvious then.

kwant

It's not impossible for metal to be well-produced, it's just the exception to the rule. Recent Opeth stuff if very clean and dynamic, even at its heaviest. The key is a good producer, a good engineer, and a band that's not screaming "turn EVERYTHING UP!".

Bogart Shwadchuck

@TorchedIce: Ah! Well there's your sign. ;)

avconsumer2

@Eumenides: Because the engineers job, professionally, is to cater to whatever the producer/band wants. I'm sure he expressed some interesting opinions, that obviously, unfortunately, fell on deaf ears. (I made a funny!) :)

avconsumer2

@avconsumer2: Its true about "And justice for all" but keep in mind that James and Lars produced that album.

TorchedIce

I could actually notice the CD version not sounding at full studio quality.

Which is saying something when its a Heavy Metal band... metallica in particular...

SaanZ

Hopefully this will put an end to the very silly Loudness War.

Sundermania

It doesn't sound any different to me

ps3rulz

@TorchedIce: As posted above, sound quality control + heavy metal = paramount: absolutely necessary. St. Anger vs. say Between the Buried and Me's Colors. Perfect example, even with quality of songwriting excluded from the equation.

TheRunningboard7

They both sound like shit, but that might have something to do with the fact that it's Metallica.

The_Atomic_Pod

What's REALLY crazy is that the difference is bluntly obvious on a youtube video, coming through my ancient polk audio 3.55mm speakers. Terrible.

Technically, this would be the producers fault. (who may have had directions from the record company/band)

Though, if you've ever heard the "And Justice for All" album, it suffers from the same... dynamic range ailment.

avconsumer2

@ninja_warrior: Guitar Hero, Rock Band etc all have multitrack audio. That's how the guitar drops out if you screw up, etc. That means that the final audio you hear with all tracks playing can't be processed the same way that a final stereo master of an album would be, and that's why there's more dynamic range in the Guitar Hero version of the Metallica songs. Each individual track might be compressed a little (or a lot, or not at all), but unless the console was performing dynamic compression/limiting on the final output (not sure about this, but I assume not), then that's the explanation for the better quality. It's lacking the final "squash the whole thing to hell" pass of the stereo master.

Bogart Shwadchuck

@ninja_warrior: "sound quality" + "heavy metal" is an oxymoron = false!

TorchedIce

The album is fantastic, to begin with.
I never thought anything was wrong with the CD-version until I saw this, but I admit that GH-ver sounds much "deeper".

Ponyo - trying reel hard to not be a troll

The album is amazing, all though the GH is noticably better i guess, just another example of the loudness war, which is so pathetic, why ruin the quality of the cd just to compete? And i dont just mean Death Magnetic, but as a whole....so much fail.

Gillian Seed

oh wow...yea like everyone else said, thats from a YOUTUBE video where the quality is already screwed up, that must be MISERABLE CD quality then.

Ashura

@MakoAoyama: Hey i stayed pretty civil about the topic. I felt that metallica's lack of care in something like sound quality is a reflection of their lack of respect for the fans. That is pretty on topic. And I also noted that this wasn't the first case.

I talked about their album not the band. I didn't mention anything about me liking or disliking metallica.

You may interpret the last line as only discuss sound quality. I see it as sound quality is the min requirement for entry.

I don't see how I've done anything wrong. I'm negative the sound quality and negative about the album. That's my opinion and your going to have to live with it.

On the other hand, your calls for the banhammer are unnecessary. This discussion is pretty orderly considering the topic is music. Technically by your arguments you should be up for the banhammer as well. You are complaining about the lack of moderation on Kotaku when we should comment "Only what you think of the sound quality". Loosen up and enjoy your time on the boards. The banhammer comes when it wants to come.

Eumenides

This Rolling Stone article is a great summarization of the overall problem. Not every artist is affected, but nonetheless it's certainly endemic in the industry. Based on some of the comments above, it would seem many of you might find this worth reading.

Tito Bellic

I listened to the entire thing today during work... It sounded fine. That is, unless I'm lacking some sort of uber-audiophile super hearing.

In that comparison video, I can tell the difference, but, honestly, it's pretty negligible.

mphz

Are we comparing sound quality based on a Youtube clip? nice...

LesPaulJr

Our programming crew would cry big tears if they were presented with range like that. God bless the music industry.

Capt_Billy

@zomgYGGR: Didn't say otherwise. Death Magnetic is one of my favourite albums ever. I listened to it at least 4-5 times on release day. I also bought the GH version and love it. On my way to the store to buy RB2 yesterday I listened to it twice (it was a long walk...) I just used the RB2 drum freestyle mode to play along with the entire album (using the dashboard custom soundtrack thing on the 360). Seriously, this album is a stroke of pure genius, this coming from a life-long fan of trash metal and a die hard Metallica fan in everything except for St. Anger (and even St. Anger if I'm in the right mood, ie: angry.)

But it sounds like shit. Which is what I was talking about.

dowingba

@avconsumer2: Newstead-Less Metallica is somethign that threw me for a doozy when he left... i hated the band for so long because of his departure, but life goes on.... could Trujillo be the problem? i dunno, how would things be if Cliff were still alive?

its a lot of "what ifs"

zanzibarlegend

@dowingba: st anger sucked because the songs sucked. death metallic is awesome because the songs are awesome. production values are secondary to those simple facts.

zomgYGGR

So how long before FLAC versions of the Guitar Hero version are available for download? As much as I'd like to buy a Metalica CD, Lars is intent on war with his fans.

Akin

@dowingba: Well, that's a helluva lot more intelligent than, "both versions blow because Metallica sucks". I'm so tired of some of the people on Kotaku.

Sakilla

There is an even bigger difference if you listen to this video in the high quality setting

+ Watch video

stupid youtube audio compressing

rinerdar

My personal theory behind St. Anger's crap sound was that Bob Rock was to blame. See, he's famous for way over-producing albums (see: the black album!) but I'm guessing the band this time around wanted it to sound under-produced and raw. Bob Rock doesn't know how to do this so he tried way too hard. Ironically, St. Anger is probably Metallica's most over-produced album since the songs were basically just pieced together on a computer. Notice the lack of drum fills on the album? It's like a robot was playing the songs.

My personal theory behind Death Magnetic? Metallica looked at one of Rubin's previous works: Reign in Blood; and they said "we want to sound like that!" And so they did.

dowingba

@EvilAng3la: Engineers are likely not to blame (as stated in the article if you'll read). Take your lynch mob to the producer please.

avconsumer2

Guys, watch this video to understand what is happening to the Death Magnetic CD, its very clear in explaining: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

LetaIshan

There's no texture to the CD version at all. I think maybe SOME of that can be credited to when the final mix is put together, but not like that. The GH version has layers...you can pick up the bass and guitar and drum parts pretty easily. The CD is just...noise, and contrary to some people's opinions, that isn't what all metal bands are trying to do.

Jesus...if Lars and Co are the ones who did that, I have to ask why the hell are they even playing anymore? Who would want to make a CD, then go back and listen to it and hear their work just smooshed into a giant wall of indistinguishable sonic irritation?

Mal-Content

maybe i am deaf, but while i could see a difference in the equalizers on the video, i couldnt hear much of a difference and if i hadnt read all this hoopla about the cd sound quality, i never would have thought anything was wrong. the cd sounds fine to me(and the album itself is amazing). thanks to the internet, people always have something to whine about. if this cd had been released 15 years ago with the same sound quality, no one would be saying anything about distortion and clipping.

zomgYGGR

Sadly i can't listen to my CD version. Now the french leak i have sounds excellent. That's the one on my iPod.

NuclearSun

For those of you wondering WHY the CD is that bad... It's what's known as the "Loudness War". [www.turnmeup.org]

The only way to stop it is to stop buying CDs that are mastered that badly. It's not like someone suggested, that they screwed up the CD mix, or got the GH and CD mixes backwards. This was 100% intentional on the CD. Fortunately, the GH sound engineers knew better.

One can only hope this is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

EvilAng3la

I love how when the CD is playing, the equalizer looks like a thick, straight line. The bass was THUMPING out of my speakers when the GH version was playing.

TheMurderer

First off, can people quit declaring that Metallica should stop making albums?
A. Who the fuck are you? Oh, no one, got it!
B. They gave us some great tunes, can we please let them write whatever songs they want.
C. Don't tell an artist to stop making art.

Second, Metallica's latest album is pretty damn decent, especially for guys in their 40's who've laid off the booze. Shit, stop fucking complaining.

Three, stop hating Metallica because it's cool. It's like the "Halo hating" thing. What are you, 12?

*This is directed at every self-righteous and pompous music listening loser who thinks his band or game console is his team, and therefore he must condemn everything else out there.

Sakilla

@TheRunningboard7: Agreed. A lot of modern metal needs good production and mixing to succeed- bands like Cult of Luna, Isis, Deftones etc. depend on dynamics and layers of instrumentation, and while a "wall of sound" approach is fine for grindcore, stoner and drone, it doesn't do anything to improve any other peice of music.
Probably the biggest problem with this compression is the loss of the dyanmic range on the drums (cymbals mostly). They just seem to stop, instead of ringing, and sound far too dull and flat. It's a shame, as the drumming on DM is otherwise solid. It's a step up from drumming on pots and pans (example: Ulrich's snare in St Anger!).

stoneagedan

@Lizard_King: Good point. New bassist = crap sounding album. Yeah.. and didn't know this latest was produced by Rick Rubin (7 grammy's and quite the track record). Though he is noted for his "clean" sound preference. Probably his fault (and his opinion).

avconsumer2

@KSPRAYDAD:

Oh no you didn't!

R8DERHED5150

@Eumenides: Oh, it comes.

Brian has asked specifically for people to stay on topic.

End of story.

And I can easily tell the difference between both recordings. It's heartbreaking to think a band like Metallica could get such shitty mastering in this day and age.

Spoony Bard

@EvilAng3la:

Please.
It's not the mixing and mastering engineers faults.
Producer's came to the conclusion a while ago that the louder the overall mix of a song, the better it will attract the attention of the listener.
As a result, engineers started to get pushed by the record labels to mix louder, louder, louder, and push the dynamic range of the music down so listener's weren't having to adjust the volume of their radio's all the time (which in reality is an almost better idea).

As a result we get music that is loud, but with element's that don't pop. Drums get washed out, things sound flat.

It trickles down as well, because musician's in smaller labels (or with no labels at all) hear this music being played on MTV and on the radio and they want their music to sound like that, because they think it's how its supposed to sound. It's not.
So it becomes an endless loop.

And don't tell me that it's the engineer's fault, that he doesn't have to do it if he doesn't want to.
If he wants to get paid, he's going to do it. And trust me when I say they really really really don't want to do it.
I should know, it's my profession.

The Metallica cd sounds better in the GH version.
But it still acoustically sounds a little flat.

dantemustdie

Not that it will make any difference on the crappy iphone headphones, but with my nice circumaural headphones there's a BIGG depth difference there. And you can just see by the waveform that the CD is fucked.

Oranges w/ Cheese

Well, I suppose they're getting closer to their predicted release ... [www.bbspot.com]

djack

meh.... it sounds like garbage... but metallica sucks anyways (opinion people, don't freak out), so life goes on.

Superlocke

And I'm really not altogether sure why my opinion on the sound quality of Death Magnetic -- that it sounds like Reign in Blood, which was also produced by Rubin -- would be considered off-topic. But maybe it was misinterpreted..?

dowingba

Wow. I went to school studying audio engineering and my first thought was "I doubt you could hear the difference over youtube.", but man. I was wrong. BIG Difference.

GoKeithGo

St. Anger was a mess for a number of reasons. Jason Newsted had left the band, Hetfield had to enter rehab towards the end of production, and good ole Lars was, supposedly, 'bored with guitar solos'. It was called 'St. Anger' because they were -all- pissed off, and everything about the album seemed to typify that - from the songwriting to the sound quality to the snare of doom.

So let us agree to disagree. Does Death Magnetic suffer from some sound quality problems? It would be hard to deny with the above video evidence, but after the audio-abortion that was St. Anger, can't we agree that this was still a massive step forward for the band (or perhaps a step back into the usual)?

Lerdio

I didn't expect the difference to be that noticeable... I can't wait to get this album regardless. Rock on.

Ruiner13

there is a difference. but knowing they did it on purpose it makes sense. i actually like the way the CD sounds opposed to the GH version. people a whining too much about the CD.

akiranimus

It might be youtube, laptop speakers, or just me, but I don't hear much of a difference.

Talleh

I don't understand all the crying about the CD version. Did anyone of you listen to St. Anger? the sound quality is SO MUCH better on Death Magnetic that I thought it was so good. Metallica has always gotten us used to their crappy mixes (see all their 80s releases), that their latest album ends up sounding pretty good in comparison.

SicariusIV

@Lerdio: actually it's a new low for Metallica, a band famous for being loud in the 90's.

It's seems they have their machines equalized for hip hop to get good bass on speakers, but rock isn't about riding you cadi on your 22" while sipping some gin n juice... this is Metallica for Pimps.

It's about burning out your speakers.

VakeroRokero

@dantemustdie:

I see your point about wanting to get paid and being forced, as an engineer, to do things you don't want to do sometimes, but that wave form is terrible.

I don't think this has to do with volume. If you're under 0dB, that's it. You can properly produce/engineer/master an entire album without having to crush the waveform to like that. People have been doing it for years.

I don't know what the story behind the Metallica album is, but I definitely don't think it has to do with keeping the same level throughout the entire album, because that is pretty much a non issue these days.

nikoss

Muddy! Like a big ol' pile of dirt that got wet! With water or something!

serotoninzero

For all the people that can't hear a difference due to cheap speakers, the difference is noticeable, it sounds like of like when you press mute on a car stereo, the music still plays but most high sounds like bass and cymbals and high notes on guitar are almost gone.

VakeroRokero

Even on a low quality YouTube video the difference is night and day. As a producer/engineer, I must say that is pretty shameful for Metalleca and their engineer. Can you say BRICK WALL limiter?

nikoss

The GH version sounds much cleaner.

Gouki4u

Can we have a separate post where we discuss whether or not we like Metallica? Because I don't, and I need to waste time explaining why I don't. If I can hurl insults at anonymous people on the internet that would make me feel superior.

msondo

You don't need to even listen to this clip to tell there is a difference. All the comments about "Youtube isn't good quality to listen for differences" or "Just turn up the treble and it's solved" are missing the point here.

Look at the wave between the CD version and the GH version. The GH version has all sorts of peaks and valleys, where the CD version is completely maxed at the edge the whole way across.

MaxSteele

There's obviously a huge difference in quality, in my opinion. Most notably heard in the drums. The overall sound of the CD version sounds wayyy compressed, and in turn much less dynamic.

ThisCharmingMan

It's a strange day when the audio quality from a video game exceeds the audio quality from a purchased CD

Shin-san

Wow. The CD really does sound terrible. When this story first broke I thought it was just bitching from pure audio nerds; but there seriously is a quality issue here.

GrapenutsRobot

Wow... you can /see/ the difference in the video alone. As far as the sound goes, the GH version is superior, but I suppose the CD version would suffice, since that's all that's readily available to the majority of the public.

Ravenhood

The GH version sounded... richer?

Altima NEO

As a true Metallica fanboy, I can proudly say that I don't give a shit. People need to stop whining.

Zinc666

>>>Did anyone of you listen to St. Anger? the sound quality is SO MUCH better on Death Magnetic that I thought it was so good.

I'm pretty positive that Metallica released St. Anger just to make all of their future releases sound good by comparison.

twobeef

@EvilAng3la: This bad releases are so people wil buy a second "remastered special edition" later. Kind of like buying a barebones dvd vs a criterion release.

VakeroRokero

Guitar hero's quality is obviously better. The CD sounds crazy muffled. Galneryus' new album "Reincarnation" sounds like that in some areas, I hate that it got mastered like that, the music is so good but in some parts just sounds like a mush of noise.

Versailles

Wow. The Guitar Hero version sounds much, MUCH better.

Dalren

Metallica should sue Guitar Hero for making them look bad by making them sound good.

Crowbot

You can see how much clipping they have from the waveform. The GH version has a much higher dynamic range.

MonkeyBiz

@Eumenides: You know, it's funny because I was going to pick your original post apart piece by piece, but by the time I got home from work that particlular post had been disemvoweled! Now I can't even read it.

In the mean time, you may have been civil about it to begin with but that isn't the point. Metallica doesn't do the mixing. Other sound engineers deal with that. The band might not have even known about the quality of the mix until fans started saying something. Your opinion on how much respect you THINK Metallica gives it's fans isn't part of this thread.
Whether you like the album or not is irrelevant. We're talking about sound quality here(like the clipping, duh) for CD vs. Guitar Hero, not whether or not you hate that this album doesn't sound like Master of Puppets.
And regardless of how you interpret this line:

"and remember, we're talking about sound quality here folks, not whether or not you actually like Metallica."

It still means we're just discussing SOUND QUALITY, and nothing else. Get over it.

Now then! Back on topic...
Does anyone know if Metallica themselves have responded to the quality issues yet? I would be interested i knowing if they were going to offer the higher quality version for download or something in the future.

MakoAoyama

That difference is pretty incredible. Im glad now i didnt waste my cash on the album.

VinLieger

I wonder if they just sent in 128kbps mp3's to the CD printers? terrible.

Maikeru2008

Urk. Dynamic Range, what have they done to you?

Ohverture

HA, that explains it. I have optical out going to an old Denon receiver and when the new Metallica tracks popped up in my playlists I wad to turn the output levels down about half way, the clipping/distortion was terrible, which made the next non-Metallica track way too soft.

silentbob343

lol holy crap, I thought it was just me! When the first single was released I listened to it on my laptop and it sounded fine, but once I put some headphones on and checked it out I knew something wasn't right.. it just sounds like it's too distorted and loud. I told my wife that to and she thought I was crazy! pretty good album overall though.

PlasmaMachine

@cendojr: I actually couldn't pick out much difference until I read your comment and listened again. I could see a difference in the wave pattern though and the fact that I know something is missing from the sound wave is enough to tell me the mastering process was horribly botched.
YouTube probably not the best choice for making sound comparisons though, since it does it's own tampering...

PokeParadox

And I thought the clipping was bad on Rush's Vapor Trails. This takes the piss.

nimagraven

@The_Atomic_Pod:

You read like shit. Go back to elementary comprehension you fool.

Anyhow, I do notice a difference ... and from now on will boycott CD based music entirely, until the music industry pulls their collective heads out their pathetic assholes.

I will just pay for them digitally, and then convert to CD audio and burn my own. So sad indeed.

EnigmaNemesis