xbox has won the wanna be hardcore gamers who think halo3 is the best shooter ever made. yes i met some kid who says that but hasnt played ANY other shooter yet he has no problem claiming halo3 is the best shooter ever made. people like that piss me off.

not saying that xbox isnt good, xbox has plenty of good games, but I think it has more people who THINK they are hardcore gamers but thats because MS did a better marketing job to get all the people to 360.

when i said people who THINK they are hardcore, i mean the people who only have halo3, madden 07, 08, 09, and talk shit to people on live.

sirpilf

@MrsXBob: So the next generation starts when Microsoft Says so, huh?

I loove how Microsoft will ship out their next console out with lots of problems just so they can get a "head start" on the competition.

Don't you see that's what they did with the Xbox 360? And how far in sales did that "headstart" give them? Only about 2million+ it's actually not alot considering they had a full year ahead of the competition.

And your very ignorant, as you don't realize that the PS3's architecture is much different than a tradition PC so developers need to utilize the Cell, and face the facts, the PS3 is more powerful than the Xbox 360.

And have you seen KillZone 2? It looks amazing, and guess how much power it used of the PS3?

4 out of 6 SPE's. Yeah, and Uncharted used 30% approximately of the PS3's power and Uncharted looks much better than that crappy game called Gears of War 2.

The PS3 will win with the help of a more graphical superior hardware and Blu-Ray on it's side. S

I expect you to say "It's soo exspnesivveee!!!111 lol u fail" It's exspensive for a reason, it has built in Wi-Fi a Blu-Ray, the Cell, it has so much value much more than your hard-drive less, Wi-Fi less Xbox 360.

$200? Who cares, it's a stripped Xbox 360 and have fun trying to download demos,themes, arcade games... oh wait... you don't have much hard-drive room.

Oh wait a second! A 120GB hard drive for $150! OMG!

Too bad it's their first party shit that is overpriced like a motherfucker. You can get 320GB for about $150 on the PS3.

Wizxon

The 360 had an unassailable lead over the PS3, which has been only exaccerbated by the fact that the key games on the latter console (MGS4, GT5, WipeOut HD) have been so lon in coming (or haven't appeared even now). The PS3 SHOULD be bigger than the 360, but the MS machince has too big a head start and Son haven't enough Unique Selling Points to make uo ground, that's the long and short of it.

Alphavillain

@jimmyNewtron: If anything else, your good for a laugh.

dreadnought666

"But if it came to 360 versus Wii in a battle for the mass market, Microsoft should save their warchest and call it quits"

They can't. It would be a bigger hit to them in the future. The name of the game is to take all that you can. It is to dangerous to allow Nintendo to have their fan base unopposed 100% in a market, because it would mean a guaranteed future. Microsoft is facing them on that front. Sony is facing Nintendo on first party development.

I do think all three companies have lost a bit of sight though. Sony is trying to disregard Nintendo fully, but thats crazy. Microsoft is trying to copy Nintendo fully, but that ludicrous. Nintendo seems to be focusing on a market that I personally think will not generate as much money over the lives of console generations. I say this not because Ninty have new people to cater too, I say it because they are the only people they're catering too, I would work on both the core and new casual market.

R3load

@jimmyNewtron: I didnt know games baught a system, I always thought that was gamers... Plus the 360 ship is about to sail, unless this Halo 3 revival thing, or Halo [if it's gonna be on 360, i honestly think MS is gonna save it for the next Xbox]. Other than that, it's about the right time for an Xbox1 repeat.

DontCrossMyanimals

@Naaloq: >> lost track of the thread there. I think either way, the 'hardcore' battle is 360's because of the onslaught of fps and rts games on it. sony has always been more experimental about their releases, usually not focusing on multiplayer vs gameplay, whereas the 360 is more focused on promising sales, thus never really having anything thats much different from the last big title.

Naaloq

Let me ask you this. Is winning the battle for the hardcore that great of a prize? For MS, they've got their work cut out trying to re-image the 360 as a family friendly media center. A console business cannot survive relying on the hardcore alone.

gojirah

@Diesel_Power: I don't even game on my PC but
this
is
truth.

Refused

xbox@MrADro: /signed

FryDay

@cakeman19: those games are core games that you mentioned but haveing 3-6 core games a year is not considered hardcore it considered having a core game once and a while to be able to say things like you just stated. Those games took me no more and a week or two to beat. Or in the reference to Brawl, Heros or metroid on 2 - 3 days and they got beat. So Yes the Wii might have a hand full of core (not hardcore) games, the Wii is more of a GameCube 1.5 than anything else.

JorgieX

@tzaketh:

No. Because:

1) The PS3 outsold the 360 last year. But according to him "there's no way today that a game console will sell well at launch at $500-$600.

2) Developers are really throwing themselves behind the 360? Really? Which ones? As far as I can see, developers are warming up to the PS3 more and more. Which dev is now saying "yea...we're throwing our all into the 360 with this game!" Maybe Cliffy B said it. Link me to more.

3) Sony shot themselves in the foot because HE won't buy a PS3....? When last time I checked... what was it...15 million already have one? And it's been out for just under 2 years?

So yea...post made no sense.

____

@Pizookie: PC gaming has been dead for years, it's not coming back. Just because you see one or two awesome tech-demo-games every year doesnt make it worth it. Not in the slightest.

MMOs have hit their peak - publishers are simply going to be clambering for the next WoW and it just wont come, because pretty much every 'die-hard' mmo fan is now suckered into only wanting that game and its many many expansions/sequels to come.

The PC has never had and will never have the variety of entertainment available to a console owner - even moreso to multi-console owners. It'll always have its niche with the 'my cpu is better than yours' crowd, but it can never go past that.

MrsXBob

@d0rkus: I'm with you. It's a good time to own all three. :D

skullpanda

Personally, I like my PS3 the most.

Rinaldus

PLAYSTATION 3 IS THE BEST !!!!!!

THE BEST
THE BEST
THE BEST

Phil_Belmont

@grahamwest:

How is the background downloading and installing a joke? Works fine for me...

ammar91994

No overly large market share for any one of them is what it should be. It keeps the competition and quality up whilst keeping the prices down.

People who think it would all be better if there was just one console to buy (yes that also includes the people who want every game to be multiplatform) are, for the lack of a better term, morons.

Hassun

Really? It is the PC. In terms of consoles, the 360 has most of the market now, but I think with a new casual push they are exhibiting, the PS3 could be the hardcore console of choice. 2009 should be very interesting.

The Magnificen7

@ammar91994: ...Valkyria Chronicles, White Knight Story, Final Fantasy Versus, Disgaea 3...

Đipic

@Actaeus:

Most developers are "throwing themselves" behind both consoles...

ammar91994

I prefer sony, simply because of the longevity the ps2 had, which the ps3 will more than likely have a similar longevity. Ive never bought either xbox systems, not because of the games (i really wish games like Dead Rising would come to the ps3) or the system (other than not having blu-ray, its fairly equal in potential power right now, but losing its ground as developers learn more about the ps3), i just dont like the community. Last year was 360s year. This year has been getting more even, but after LBP and Resistance 2 within a month or so of each other, and home hopefully launching before the end of the year, i think next year will be a ps3 year.

Naaloq

As for the battle for hardcore supremacy it's still PC. Xbox may have something going by sponsoring several gamer tournaments and excluding PS3 gamers from joining, but that's still a relatively small market. The author brushes PS3 exclusives as though they were nothing, but I feel PS3 has the better lineup of exclusives coming up and possibly in the far future, since MS is disbanding its 1st/2nd party studios in favor of 3rd party licensing. I believe most 3rd party titles will be multi-platform anyways leaving the advantage to PS3 with its several in-house game studios and 2nd party relationships. Exclusives will eventually be the defining factor for hardcore gamers, since multi-platform games for the most part look and play the same on either console.

I think another deciding factor is which console gets off the ground running with MMOs. Both consoles seem to have started slow in developing these kinds of games which still rules the PC world. Games like MAG, DC Universe Online, Huxley, etc. need to show up on consoles soon. They could easily sway advantage to one of the consoles.

Pizookie

What's up with the one word or sentence answers people?

"Xbox for sure"

"Definitely PS3"

Let's hear some valid arguments rather than choosing the side you bought into.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Tetelestia:

Oh, how right you are.

____

@SeedyXX: Amen.

Đipic

@____:

Oh, and worth noting. My post is purely created to seem as 'blind' as the majority of you here.

So fire away.

____

@Xuchilbara: "Just wait to see what game designers can do with it when they actually learn to use it."

I love that. Absolutely love it! The fact that so many mindless fanboys can hang onto their beloved PS3 because of this is hilarious. Have fun 'waiting for developers to learn how to use it' while everyone else has moved onto the next generation. But of course then Sony will still be clinging onto you by saying the next generation doesnt start until they say so.

It's really pathetic.

MrsXBob

Oh, and my answer:

PS3, absolutely no contest.

____

@____:

Because he isn't a PS3 fanboy?

tzaketh

15 pages.

Tetelestia

@ZeeBeeEss:

... Infamous, Heavy Rain, Killzone 2, Motorstorm 2, Resistance 2...

ammar91994

@JuanMontoya:

"far too complicated" for whom, exactly?

____

@Diesel_Power:
This.

Rohit_N

@Diesel_Power:

Good Answer.

tzaketh

@cakeman19:

Lack of games?

Wii...hardcore?!

HAHAHAAA.

____

360, no question at all.

CanaryWundaboy

@Candlejack:

The Wii is casual, but saying that it doesn't cater to the hardcore is silly.

Madworld. The Conduit. Redsteel 2*. Deadly Creatures. Deadrising Wii. Rockband/GH. Web of Shadows*. Force Unleashed.

Then theres the lot of Resident Evil Remakes that will make "hardcore players" buy them for the Wii, cause they're such huge fanboys.

I think Nintendo just needs to make Timecrisis for the Wii, packaged with an excellent light gun that makes your Wiimote more accurate like the motion plus coming out.

Hardcore Nintendo Solved.

mergedwarrior

@outofreach: Seriously, can we make EVERY day BanHammer Monday? Please?

Larry Horse

@Candlejack:

No you got the 360 wrong. The Wii is too far to the casual to cater to the hardcore, like you said. The PS3 is far too complicated and the farthest from catering to the casual.

This Christmas Microsoft is obviously changing it's focus to the casual(Even though they have a little piece of the pie already thanks to music games) with the new dashboard and casual games like Banjo, Viva Pinata, and Lips.

JuanMontoya

@grahamwest:

1) Your post is misguided.

2) EVERY single PS3 manufactured to date plays PSone games.

____

PS3, hardcore.... There is not one doubt about it.... Not to mention it kinda feels like MS just quit trying lately, the PS3 will definitely outlive the 360 IMO.

Just wait to see what game designers can do with it when they actually learn to use it.

Xuchilbara

@jimmyNewtron: hardware? really? =P

s0ulzx

@TheBassKicks: It's truly sad how much some console owners care about this shit. 360 owners, in particular, seem to base their self-worth on loudly and profanely they can exclaim that Sony sucks.

Larry Horse

@convercide: i agree with you 100%. I own a 360, PS3 and Gaming Rig..I used to own a Wii but got rid of it and I never looked back nor miss it at all. So most hardcore gamers already own multi-systems.

JorgieX

I'm actually having a more "Hardcore" time on my Wii than my PS3 (But that's mainly due to lack of games). Everyone thinks the Wii has no core games, but it definitly does. No More Heroes, Super Paper Mario, Zelda, Galaxy, Brawl, Metroid. People are just paying attention to the massive amounts of crap shovelware devs come out with every day.

cakeman19

@Actaeus:

Your post makes no sense.

____

@Ansem:

Was that a joke?

The only thing I'd agree totally agree with is "better online network"... possibly "better software too".

But viva la PC.

mergedwarrior

@jimmyNewtron:

Don't worry Ansem....it HAD to be.

____

Blu-Ray has really been the deciding factor in picking a PS3 over a 360 for many of my friends, including myself, but I got both. If you don't care about Blu-Ray, there really isn't all that much left to decide for when it comes down to the two. Xbox 360 has it matched almost everywhere at a cheaper price; almost no contest.

Wii I think is in a battle with the PS2. Sounds wierd, but the market the Wii is going after is the same market that the PS2 has now, very casual, cheap gamers. PS2 holds the advantage of also having many hardcore titles of the past, but not much in the last year or so. This persists with the constant porting of Wii and PSP games to the system, and vise versa.

DS has lost a big chunk of its appeal to the hardcore, as we are being greeted to crossword puzzles and dozens of titles that replace "s"s with "z"s. Nintendo has left it to third party as they all but abandon it with anything awesome. More Pokemon games and Kirby remakes are all the system sees from the Big N lately.

PSP is in the greatest of shambles at the moment, with the highest chance for a second coming at the same time. Third party devs are bringing practically nil original content to the device, leaving it behind with its UMD drive in the dust as emulation suffocates it. However, the advent of the PSN's PSP downloads could breath life into the system, as they tend to be all the rage on the console lately. A price drop to an even $150 and a bundled game could make a it a substantial competitor to the DS, but the way the majority of gaming community and therefore the developers see it, things are not pretty.

ViewtifulJason

The one with Xbox Live?

lol.... durrrrrrrrrrr.

outofreach

@TheBassKicks: Here here! I concur with said poster!

emericanized

@ZeeBeeEss: The your beyond blind and no one can argue with you because your to ignorant of the situation to even be part of the discussion.

xIvSlowDeath420

I'm very happy with what I took home, so I'll declare *myself* the winner and let the rest keep fighting.

SeedyXX

commonnn promising future... PS3 later on mabey... 360 now... sigh

Ijkabob

@jimmyNewtron:
I seriously hope that was a joke.

Ansem

PS3 is DEFINITELY the hardcore console. The Wii is casual. The 360 used to be hardcore, but it is giving up on the hardcore and going casual. PS3 is the console for true hardcore gamers.

Ansem

Xbox has it this generation, no doubt. But neither them or Sony is gonna end up like Nintendo anyway. Frankly, IMO the PS3 may be a financial disaster, but by the end of it's life it will stand well on it's own as a cultural icon.

CitizenInsane27

The only reason I own a PS3 is because if I hadn't bought one a couple of months ago I would've lost the ability to have it play PS2/PSone games (I have close to 200 between the 2 systems). Games that are on 360 and PS3 I buy on 360 because their system software is so much better. The "background" download and installation procedure for demos etc is just a joke on PS3. SCEI need to fire all their system programmers and let SCEE (preferably - they always had the best dev support personnel during my PS2 days) or SCEA rewrite it all. I wish the 360 had a bigger hard drive and that Microsoft weren't gouging on prices for peripherals, but from a user experience it's just so much better.

grahamwest

Sony will be right behind or surpass 360, next fiscal year, average sales of the ps3 over the 360 is fairly large, and it wont stop because of the SONY fan base everywhere outside of North America.

Yeahh, lets go WiiPS360 owners!
and yes, i prefer sony

LastAncient

@d0rkus: How About PSWii60 owners

caleb154

Give me a break...the Wii shouldnt even be mentioned here because it is going for a different audience...the vast majority of those people nintendo is aiming for with a wii dont play anything but wii sports anyway...I doubt many old timers or 25-45 yr old women are dying to play Resident evil or even care about anything other than Wii bowling....My wife is a prime example...I bought her a Wii this past Christmas and the machine has sat there untouched since January.

gaiking

@Diesel_Power:

This.

DoomDoomDoom

The Wii is so far to the casual side, that it doesn't cater to the hardcore anymore. The 360 is so far to the hardcore side, that it could never cater to the casual to begin with.

Now here's Sony, trying their hardest to capture both casual and hardcore audiences, and have yet to succeed on either. If the PS3 takes off like the Wii or better, at a lower price point - with or without the help of Blu-Ray - it's going to pass everyone, because Sony won't let it die just like they are still making and selling PS2s, unlike MS and Nintendo.

Candlejack

@d0rkus:
how about we call it

PSWII60 ?

cos that kind of sums them all up and you can pronounce each console in that word.

jimmyNewtron

I think we'll ultimately end up seeing microsoft prematurely push the "next gen" forward again too quickly and come out with a product that hardware wise is subpar at best (as in Quality control not the actual power of it or anything like that), but people will need their halo 6 and 19 halo spinoffs so it'll still sell like hookers on a friday. incidentally they should see a doctor about all that prematureness, there's ways to treat it now.

im also hoping by the time the "next gen" hits there will be a ps3 sku that does include a panini press or george foreman grill >.>

demonknightinuyasha

Screw your battles, I have room for both.

Wolfers

I think the "core" gamer most people visualize is probably playing the 360. Sony shot themselves in the foot. I was on board the PS3 train right up until the price was announced. Regardless of new, expensive technology, there's no way today that a game console will sell well at launch at $500-600. And now that developers are really throwing themselves behind the 360, it'll be a long time before my eventual PS3 purchase.

Actaeus

I would definitely have to say Xbox is pretty much ahead, even PS3 owners have to admit the majority of people around them own a Xbox 360.

The battle I doubt will depend on blu-ray, it's the cheapest now but everyone still watchs normal dvds by the time it becomes popular will there be a cheaper alternative blu ray player?

Am I a slight fanboy? maybe.

Ravel

core games will buy xbox. only extreme Sony fanboys or anti MS types will refrain from acknowledging that xbox has the better software, better online network and better hardware for playing games.

jimmyNewtron

My personal opinion is that if you're a 'hardcore' gamer you own more than one console/PC anyway as it's the game you're playing that matters, not the thing you're playing it on.

convercide

I would like to think that the PS3 will be the eventual winner, but I think it has a long way to go. Of course, if the 360's didn't red ring as much as they supposedly do I would imagine they would win hands down.

trunks651

It is incredibly difficult to imagine what kind of person would give a shit, outside of those employed by these respective companies.

TheBassKicks

"Sony has more up their sleeve..."

Little Big Planet, Home, and God of War 3?

I don't see much passed that, and two of them I would consider "casual" experiences.

ZeeBeeEss

I have a Little Big Preminition the ps3 install rate will jump this fall with casual gamers.

Punkateer

Xbox will surely win this comment section.

____

PC.

Diesel_Power

I don't care because we as gamers win out in the end with both companies trying to top the other. I have all three consoles and I play both equally depending on my mood. Plus I needed a Blu-ray player. The one console I don't play is the Wii anymore because I can't find Wii Fit.

Long live WiiPS360 owners!

d0rkus

Xbox all the way baby!!!

MrADro

XBOX has it, no contest.

Benjo

@dreadnought666:
I didn't say quality of hardware I said hardware for playing games, reading of a slow ass blu ray drive, so slow that it has to install half the game on your harddrive is not good games hardware.

neither is the ancient controller they give you.

Why do multiplatform games look better on the 360 than PS3? because the 360 was developed for software writers in mind.

the PC kicks both their arse, but unless you pirate games, buying PC filled with DRM games is stupid these days.

jimmyNewtron

Microsoft lost me with the 360, And I play games pretty heavily. If they pull off the relaunch, the new interface, and a good hardware refresh (Not like these pathetic current ones, a hardware refresh that would fully redesign the damn thing), and have a better Silver service, I WILL buy another one.

As it stands, it doesn't have much that interests me. most of it's exclusives go right over my head, and really, I'd rather have an original Xbox than a 360. More games I like on that than the 360.

HikariOblivion

Xbox 360 :

Halo
Gears of War
FF13
METAL GEAR SOLID 4 in 2009

PS3 :

MGS4

*~*

Gigaheart

@Danilov.-: I think you're kind of missing the point. He's talking about how it doesn't even matter, and then you blow your fanboy snot all over the conversation.

You think you made the best decision by only buying one machine? I'm sorry for you. And by the way, I'm a PS3 owner and I'm pretty sure it's NOT the best machine.

Revenge_of_Nekojin

@Punkateer:

casual AND hardcore, perhaps.

joeloliol

This article is spot on. I also think the 360 will top out at 40-50 million units in the end. As for the Wii, I think it will top out at 50 million once people realize that the library of titles is lackluster and the lack of hardcore games. The PS3 has a good chance of selling 100 million units or more but that's only after the price point reaches below $200; that would be the ''sweet spot'' in terms of pricing. History has shown that the PS1/2 won because it had a nice balanced mixture of games. If Sony can put secure more exclusives and get enough casual games, then they might just survive this generation.

LeLoi

@gojirah: yeah i can agree with that

Nine_breaker

I don't even care who's gonna win. As long as I have my ps3, then im happy. :)

itchy18

@Wolfers: Agreed.

bakagaijin

Xbox of course.

Evinco

I'm currently in love with my PS3 and am awaiting all the amazing games coming to it in the next year or so. But, I'm a full time university student and I'm also working part time so I'm not like the average gamer who has the time to complain about only getting one or two amazing games every couple months. I really am rooting for Sony (not a huge Microsoft fan) and I hope they can pull this off. They have the hardware all ready to go and with the lineup of games they have coming out, that's not a problem either. Either way, I know I certainly haven't lost at all this generation.

Tiger-Fever

@Wizxon: Why bother reasoning with someone who has a username "MrsXBob"?

badmoogle

@ZeeBeeEss: "Sony has much more up their sleeve.."

Do you understand the meaning of that statement? Apparently not.

They only thing I would attempt to "see past" is your own ignorance.

And yes, fanboys of ALL kinds: The answer to the question "Who will come out on top?" is: Who the fuck cares.

Go play a video game or something...

bakagaijin

...PS3 games only? Really?

OrfeoCachai

@demonknightinuyasha:
Agreed, in all aspects.

Strife56

@Actaeus:

Hah, here in denmark it launched for almost 900$.

<_<

vhn

I say PS3 becuase it dosent have Halo 3 the most mainstream casual game out there.

ngin.small

@____: No, he rationalized his position quite well. I know I was totally behind the PS3 and kept making jokes about M$ and fire, but then I actually played on both and that price point. Sony's has lost quite a lot of my friends business who were all about Sony and the Playstation.

hitokirimaru

@Punkateer: Disagree. Casual gaers are also after a casual price. 360 for the casual win this xmas

teeps1981

@____:
Heh, I like what you did there ;)

Strife56

@MrsXBob: MMORPGs has its reigning king with WoW, but what about MMOFPS? There's still a lot of room to grow in this sub-genre, which is why I mentioned games like Huxley and MAG in my argument. I was once a WoW player, and I grew tired of it wanting to experience something different...MMOFPS games offer that change of pace/variety, at least for me.

Pizookie

@JuanMontoya: lol, I think you're a bit confused as to just what a "casual" game is if you think Banjo is one.

RealmRPGer

@Wizxon: well have fun playing killzone 2, i actually like to talk to my opponents...

Nine_breaker

I'm going to exclude the Wii for right now because personally I don't see them in direct competition with anybody at the moment since they have their own userbase they sell too.

As for the PS3 and 360 its going to be very close. The year headstart the 360 had helps a lot but I don' think their new casual push is what they need.

The PS3 has always tried to cater to both and once RPG's finally hit the console I think sales in Japan will rise as will the rest of the world, thats the factor they are missing right now.

I see Sony having a better line-up going into next year and as for the holiday PS3/360 are close but I will give the edge to the PS3 for exclusives like Naruto( I know the 360 has one too but I personally think the PS3 will be better) and Valkryia Chronicles, and Motorstorm although games like Fable 2 and definitely Gears 2 will sale.

I favor the PS3 but in the end its going to be close and I think the PS3 may have a slight lead in the end once your figure worldwide sales and that their first and second party studios are deliver more exclusives titles and that from now own 3rd party games play exactly the same.

Sorry for the long post :)

WolfGod

@sirpilf:

ahaha, this is pretty close to my impression of the majority of 360 owners.

yes, there are some real hardcore.. hell, who do you think bought braid. and N+... on xbla.

...in any case, its not really about who is a hardcore gamer or not..

its really about... who is a gamer. who loves games.

...and when it comes to stylistic, new, evolved gameplay... i think both the 360 and the ps3 are about tied... despite the 360s year lead. i think the wii has more publicized, advertised differences.. hell, you move the controller around, thats the whole wii experience. ..but i think with PSN releasing quite a few very, very unique games.. and with really different games like (and i hate to bring this game up again) LBP coming out... the ps3 is actually pushing towards having the most evolved games this generation.

and as a games lover... i think the ps3 has the most potential. and i honestly do believe that potential will start becoming more obvious in the next 2 years.

joeloliol

"The Wii might not have the legs to beat Sony's 140 million PS2's"

I'm so going here....it's hard to sell that many units when your console doesn't suffer from DRE left and right.

SAKY

XBOX 360 wins, there is no contest. The Wii may win in numbers but it's targeting primarily kids, meat-heads and simpletons. There is tons of shovelware.
This is the thanks for the fans that helped them through the dark ages as in to abandon us! Cheers for you crap games and quality control Nintendo!!
Nintendo the biggest whore of them all.

FillionSmythe

EX-BAWKZ is winning put that in your pipe and smoke it.

but any way back to reality do i honestly care? no not really. (yus i do has zee EX-BAWKZ...2 infact..because of RROD:()

tyddraig

@Larry Horse: Yeah really, because it seems like since someone hacked my last account and deleted me. That there has been an influx of fanboys 12 to 15 yo in Kotaku. Look kids, dont try too ruin Kotaku it's the best blog ever! Go bake to Myspace groups kid, we dont need the fanboyism.

DontCrossMyanimals

Personal Computer.

Refused

@TheBassKicks: you are a wise man sir!

I say let the micro-fans get their kick, in the end we, the ps3 owners KNOWS that we have chosen the best machine.

Danilov.-

@gaiking: How about I put some... ellipses here...

Or you could read the article. It's not saying anything about it going for the hardcore audience. Just the opposite. =/

Reilaos~

@gojirah:

Exactly. Winning the casual market appears to be more important in the industry. Nintendo clearly has the lead there, but Microsoft sees the potential there and will be increasing their casual presence.

Sony sees the importance of the casual market too, but I still feel like they're on the outskirts of it. They have established franchises like Singstar, and LittleBigPlanet is somewhat casual, yet somewhat hardcore (best of both worlds if you will. But I still feel they have so much potential that hasn't been tapped. Look at the Playstation Eye. If Sony really cared about the casual market they would have been churning out applications/games for that from the start. EyePets could be HUGE....if marketed correctly.

As for hardcore, I do feel the 360 has the advantage in terms of games released and the market itself due to Xbox Live. As for upcoming games, I feel the PS3 has the better line-up, and will gain ground once the install base expands.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Alphavillain:

iyo.

____

@MrsXBob: I disagree. PC Gaming is still alive and going strong. There was a recent Kotaku article about PC gaming sales and they were astonishing numbers. Maybe I can find the article for you, but I constantly hear the "PC gaming is dead" rallying cry without people showing proof that it is actually the case. It's more like wishful thinking it seems. If one person says it, then must be true kind of thing.

Pizookie

@Benjo: You seem to be confused as to what the words "no contest" means.

Reilaos~

I think it's hard to say that Microsoft has this gen won especially since the PS3 has outsold it in every market on the planet in 2008. I have all three consoles, and most of my time is spent on the PS3 by far, which isn't to say the 360 is not a great console. I just prefer the dualshock ten fold.

dreadnought666

@MrsXBob:

How is it pathetic?

You're acting as though when people say "wait until ___" comes out, that they're in fact having NOTHING to play currently. Last I checked, WHILE I wait for "God of War 3, inFamous, Killzone 2 etc. or whatever devs are coming up with for the PS3 once they "learn" the architecture....I would have already owned "list warz11!!1" games from 2008 from the PS3...and would have been completely satisfied.

If you're one of those "PS3 has no games" type fanpersons, then I'd like for you not even to respond.

____

I think the 360, especially in 2007, had Hardcore's flocking to it. But this year, it seems far more casual's are taking it up. The PS3, however, has had a steady flow of Hardcore's. The higher price point helps ward off casuals. realisticlly, there is no way to call this gen till its over. But two things are certain: 1. The Wii will win by a Landslide, Nintendo has casual's wrapped around their finger. 2. The real battle is be for second place. The 360 has a very strong (and early) start, but sony has been building momentum were as M$ has leveled out somewhat as of late.

UmayHelle

irritaed with Sony? Im irritated with Microsoft.

Scott3D

@jimmyNewtron: Biased much?

휘성

@MeanBob866: Yeah, I was playing my nonexistant copy of Folklore the other day, then played that nonexistant downloadable game PAIN to unwind. I finished my session by playing The Last Guy, which doesn't exist.

HikariOblivion

@Mr.SithNinja: Thankyou , finally a valid point in this entire section.

I just got done playing some castle crashers. I'm either going to play some MGO or some Patapon later.

Only owning one , and bitching about the other only makes people biased , not causual or remotely hardcore.

휘성

@jimmyNewtron: I don't agree that installing a game is a hinderance or else MS wouldn't be applying it to the NXE. Sure it's annoying but you pretty much only do it once and then reap the benefits from that point on.

Nassin

@Revenge_of_Nekojin: Oh man, I never owned a Jaguar! I'm just a fanboy poseur!

Seriously though, I agree that fanboy battles are futile and stupid, but there's no need for a silly superiority complex either.

Wolfers

@LittleBigPlaneteer:

Oh and whatever Team ICO is working on for the PS3!

LittleBigPlaneteer

I already own the three, but by far i think that the one with most "future appeal" is the ps3, since it´s stronger in terms of first party titles and is good on third party, also BluRay (which is the best HD option despite HD downloads) has a lot of future and the media playback is really good. The 360 is excellent and the new xbox experience should making it better, but i think is lacking some components that could´ve given it a broader future appeal...

Daisuash

Considering that you can't be considered a "hardcore gamer" unless you own BOTH systems, the entire debate is moot.

Mr.SithNinja

we gamers are the winners...not them...

rbee90

I'm going to list some of the more notable (hardcore) exclusives for each console, both released and upcoming. Forgive me if I miss any, or if some aren't deemed hardcore by you. Also note, games that are also on the PC are not included, nor have I included a comprehensive list of XBL or PSN titles:

360:

Ace Combat 6
Banjo and Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts
Braid (XBLA)
Blue Dragon
Castle Crashers (XBLA)
Crackdown
Dead or Alive series
Dead Rising (coming to Wii)
Fable II
Forza series
Gears of War series
Halo series
Infinite Undiscovery
Lost Odyssey
Ninja Gaiden II
Project Gotham series
Star Ocean 4
Tales of Vesperia
Too Human

PS3:

Disgaea 3: Absence of Justice
Final Fantasy Versus XIII
Folklore
God of War III
Gran Turismo series
Haze
Heavenly Sword
Heavy Rain
Killzone 2
Lair
LittleBigPlanet
MAG
Metal Gear Sold 4
Motorstorm Series
PixlJunk games (PSN)
Ratchet and Clank series
Resistance Series
Siren: Blood curse
SOCOM series
Tekken series
Twisted Metal
Valkyria Chronicles
Warhawk
White Knight Story
Wipeout HD
Yakuza 3
Rumored exclusives: Dark Cloud 3, Read Dead Revolver 2, Way of the Samurai, Kingdom Hearts 3

So with that list who is winnning? Can just the games be a deciding factor? I don't think so. I personally (keyword) like the PS3 lineup more, but that's subjective. I think the 360 has the hardcore advantage because of the Live ecosystem.

Feel free to add games I've missed! I just know there's a few titles I may have missed. I was basing this on Wikipedia's list btw.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Gigaheart: You need to play more games methinks.

휘성

@Revenge_of_Nekojin: your the only one here thats made any sense

Nine_breaker

How can the PS3 be in contention as it has NO GAEMZ LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOL

MeanBob866

Lol. Anyways.

휘성

In the end, I don't really care how many units either console sells (lets leave that to the fanboys). All that really matters is the games. I am looking forward to God of War 3 and FF13 Versus. For 360, I am looking forward to the next installment of Too Human which I pray to god makes up for the shoddy first one......

LeLoi

It doesn't matter. If you look back not even a couple of years you can see how things can change, how the top dog can break, how the company with less than impressive console offerings can turn around and fill damn near every home with their system, or how the new-comer last generation can lead the pack and do very well for themselves.

The PlayStation 2 "won" last generation. Does it matter? Look where Sony is now, back at the drawing board working to reclaim old and new customers alike. It'll matter even less in a few more years, just like this generation will down the road.

Buy the system that has the games/features you want, enjoy it. End of pseudo-inspirational speech.

Hey_guy

@Punkateer: There are a couple things wrong with that statement IMHO. First and foremost, if it were possible to just buy the game and screw the PS3, you would be 100% correct. However, that is not the case and most people do not want to purchase a $460 game (Sony, where's the bundle?). Second, the creation system of LBP seems to me that it would attract more "hardcore" users than casual (I know it has for me, but PS3 library still seems a little too weak). Third, I have a sad feeling that LBP will go down as a very under-appreciated game and will basically be the story of the Dreamcast in one delightful little package.

Chirish

@Gigaheart: Almost got me, but that would make more sense if you switched PS3 and Xbox..and that does not make sense either.

kakihara

@____:
1) The PS3 outsold the 360 last year. But according to him "there's no way today that a game console will sell well at launch at $500-$600.

It did not sell well at $600. That is why the price dropped extensively soon for the successor of the PS2. The price tag was the problem. It was too my reason for picking up a 360 after finding out the initial retail for what I considered the the only real system anyone could own.

2) Developers are really throwing themselves behind the 360? Really? Which ones? As far as I can see, developers are warming up to the PS3 more and more. Which dev is now saying "yea...we're throwing our all into the 360 with this game!" Maybe Cliffy B said it. Link me to more.

I don't remember him saying Sony was not gaining support. Hell, I had never known they really lost it from the PS2 era. Too much has M$ gained this generation, we all know it, you know it.

3) Sony shot themselves in the foot because HE won't buy a PS3....? When last time I checked... what was it...15 million already have one? And it's been out for just under 2 years?

I dont think they shot themselves in the foot, but they surely mis-stepped big time. Sony should be to gaming right now what Apple is to portable media players.

R3load

PS3 ftw. No contest

Twilight_Heaven

@convercide: Exactly.

However, I'd expect that the PS3 will probably sell more in its lifetime than the 360, greatly helped by the bad press that console has with the hardcore crowd for its reliability issues.

Of course, I doubt the console lifespans will run anywhere near as concurrently as they have in the past, so the PS3 will no doubt be up against the neXtBOX in a couple of years or so. In the end, it might be very hard to tell which console is "winning" as one may end up being noticeably far ahead in terms of power, switching around as each manufacturer releases its newest hardware.

Kazzahdrane

While I agree that this is the Xbox generation the ps3 has enough power to continue well into Microsoft's next console. You have seen it with every sony machine, they make a product that lasts

bdwho

@FillionSmythe: QQ more, the Wii is getting Monster Hunter. I don't know about MH3, but the other games were about as hardcore a game gets.

Revenge_of_Nekojin

@Gigaheart: Looks like they're tied at one exclusive each. Silly troll.

Wolfers

@LeLoi: You talk about having a 'nice balanced mixture of games' but totally ignore the fact that the 360 has that now, not the PS3. Also, you're insane if you think the PS3 has that kind of selling power in the future. Also, have you been in a store lately? The Wii is still impossible to find.

Revenge_of_Nekojin

@Gigaheart: 360 is not getting MGS4, and you didn't list FF13 under PS3, or Resistance, or LBP. I love my 360, but if you're going to make an argument, at least present it in an intelligent manner that doesn't make you look like an ignorant fanboy.

Revenge_of_Nekojin

@Gigaheart: FF13 on PS3 too, you mean? XD

HikariOblivion

I hate these stories, all the fanboys come crawling out of the woodwork to badmouth the other machine and doomcry.

If you're a real gamer, you own all the systems. If you don't, you're just a fanboy poseur who needs to justify their one expensive purchase.

Revenge_of_Nekojin

@HikariOblivion: Im no expert, but i believe the 360 has had its hardware revised several times now. I can think of 3 off the top of my head. Sure the case is the same, but the guts are different, and dare i say, better?

Sweetsauce

@Diesel_Power: This.
Crap, more people said "This" than I expected... Erm...
Yes.

Eranmane

@Ravel: I don't know anyone who has an Xbox 360. So there, anecdotal evidence FTW.

Narishma

@ammar91994:

Because it stops downloading if you use the console for anything useful, like playing a game (whether emulated or not) or watching a movie or basically not leaving it at the XMB. Also if you queue multiple things up to download none of them come available until they've ALL downloaded. For example I grabbed the Force Unleashed and The Last Guy demos at the same time and the Force Unleashed demo stopped at 99% complete so I couldn't install it until it had downloaded all of The Last Guy demo. Having to install things after downloading is dumb too. They should just download-in-place and be runnable.

grahamwest

@bakagaijin:
nice*

spookythemayor

Sony has a habbit of pulling out for the long run. We're seeing that the PSP is easily catching up with the DS with the sheer amount of games it has now, add on its built in ability to play movies, music, and surf the web, well, like I said, sony plans for the long run.

Same goes for the PS3. They gave the PS3 next-next-gen technology and a high price tag knowing they wouldn't be the first to burst the market. So they gave it enough firepower to outlast the Wii and 360.

Think of the three consoles as mario kart racers on a long straight track:

The Wii has fast acceleration and pulls ahead of the other two quickly. It doesn't have alot of power however to maintain that lead.

The PS3 has slow acceleration but a high top speed. At first during the console race it is lagging behind, but slowly and surely it is catching up, once ahead, it may be unstoppable.

The Xbox360 is half and half. It has a balance of speed and acceleration. It pulls out ahead of the PS3 but can't quite pass the Wii. It will, however, maintain a healthy medium between the other two consoles.

Keep in mind, the Xbox got a 1 year headstart.

eyeshield

@skullpanda:
yea, im not down for that sorry.... Wii60 all the way! tho the wii has been dissapointing me lately... alot... i hate you nintendo...

spookythemayor

This post wreaks of troll bait. And the comments prove that 100% To everyone: Play your console of choice. That is all.

WilburHorse

@MrADro: agreed

spookythemayor

@Ansem: did sony tell you that?

MysteriousStranger

@Reilaos~:
you just seem to be confused...

spookythemayor

Who is winning? Xbox has a lead on console sales and software sales, even more so in the USA. The war is not over. And after things such as online play, controller, and hardware features and integrity it all boils down to what games you need the console for. Though Microsoft has done it's best to grab PS3 exclusives and combine it with a collection of games on PC, it fails to establish games for the xbox. You cannot beat an opponent by hitting them blow for blow with they have moves you can't copy. Though a low price point helps.

From the article:

"I appreciate that the marginally improved graphics on the power consoles practically requires HD to make it look any better"
Ummm, it is a DRAMATIC difference in graphics compared to anything but the best cut scenes on the PS2.

"but they haven't to my knowledge fixed the fault which causes this fatal crash."
They implemented the 65nm falcon chips to help it.

"Next to the 360's OS, the PS3 seems positively inadequate" I think it's much more elegant than the xbox blades. I do wish you could copy photos a bit better, and the real issue is full in game xmb features.

"there's still a lack of breadth to the PS3 exclusives." It's only been around for 2 years. Compare it's exclusives to consoles this gen and last gen after 2 years. Then consider how 3rd party exclusives are falling by the wayside. They are doing pretty damn good.

"In a few years time, the PS3 could be outperforming the Xbox 360 in technical terms." More like for a few months it's been warming up.

"Sony have more up their sleeve right now than Microsoft appear to be able to muster" Microsoft will just try to reach into sony's pocket if they can. Once they've taken every 3rd party exclusive they could they will sit back and scratch their head as to why Sony has more exclusives still.

That guy is pretty funny, good find!

kakihara

@____: o wow, do you ever stop? every post that you don't agree with somehow doesn't make logical sense, when it does.

MysteriousStranger

Guess what everybody I have everything but a DS! Woohoo! That will probably change by the end of the year. AND I paid for it all myself! Woohooo! nobody cares what consoles you have or which one is really better. BUT, people who say it doesn't matter are ignorant fools. The console which sells the best is likely to get more games more games means well more things to play, not hard to figure out.

So, is it really stupid for someone to care whether or not the PS3 is outselling the 360 or the Wii or the Bible? No! It's not stupid at all! To ignorantly proclaim that one things is better than the other and that everything sucks that's not on your console of choice is very stupid though. Yeah I have almost everything and I still prefer the PS3 a lot more. I like the controller better, I like the XMB interface better. Does that mean it's better than the 360? Not necessarily. I'm not going to drum up all of the reasons why or why not but the point is people, the only thing that really sucks right now is Nintendo's lineup of hardcore games. So get along and go play something!

lightweaponx

@Revenge_of_Nekojin:

Another Probem with this useless end seemingly endless discussion is that there are TOTALY different definitions about the term BEST when it comes to the consoles.

Everybody has an other one.

fELIXADER

@loserguy: You are my hero. Thank you.

휘성

@Mr.SithNinja:

Very very true. You can't say that chicken is better than steak until you've tried both of them.

Indypunk

they all win! I play all 3! Though really i guess i would prefer the 360 and ps3 to be 1 system....

Ahmunnaeetchoo

@Diesel_Power: for answer

MysteriousStranger

@____: Then was Jack Trenton just playing a huge practical joke on everybody back at E3?

Nassin

Oh dear. Lots of ignorance splattered over this post, but I guess that's what happens with these kind of subjects.

I only own a PS3 and Wii, and both a DS and PSP. I'm looking forward to getting a 360 in the future, but I just can't really afford another platform at the moment. Hell, I'm still behind with the ones I have in terms of game releases!

So, to answer the question of who's winning the hardcore...I have no idea. I don't even think this question should be asked yet, to be honest. If you ask me, they're all failing a little bit in the hardcore regard...for their own reasons.

Saint Anima

@Wolfers: I agree. Having both is so much better.

RvolutionPeace

@Scott3D: Yeah, same. Though, it's last gen I was irritated with Sony and went with Microsoft.

Ironic, heh.

HikariOblivion

Yet another useless post on Kotaku about the asinine, market-breaking world of casual vs. the hardcore. I agree completely with the chap who mentioned that the true 'hardcore' gamer most likely has multiple consoles, and given the similarities between the Xbox 360 and PS3 line-ups (not to mention the rabid NPD reports) that's probably a Xbox/Wii or PS3/Wii combination in the home market.

I also find it strange that this argument is forced upon the gaming industry as it is. My question is: why? On a gaming blog such as Kotaku, shouldn't there be an emphasis on fostering a celebration of all things in gaming, rather than this childish cleaving of fans into non-functioning zealots?

I won't mince words and tell you that Maggie is the best Kotaku editor here, but its pretty exhausting to keep hearing these non-academic arguments being heaped upon as as though they're anything other than what they are: pedantic, non-intellectual riling. Probably a foreign concept here to the untrained sycophant, but there was ZERO point for this 'article' to have been posted. It contains absolutely no relevant information, other than conjecture, that moves any intellectual discussion within the gaming industry forward or offers anything of use. Its pure speculation.

You want this industry to 'move forward'? You want gaming to be treated with more respect in the mainstream? Then hold your noses and start realizing that it's time to drop this childish, high-school clique-behavior and just enjoy what you've got. While the Xbox/PS3 have been servicing (and I mean that in the lewdest possible sense) the so-called 'core gamer', Nintendo's been on the run helping entirely new markets accept gaming as a tool for progress and therapy. Both deserve credit, rather than scorn, and to suggest otherwise is absolute and fanboy-dripping hypocrisy.

And to Maggie - stop these pedantic posts. You're in college - we GET IT. Congratulations and best luck with the degree, but please don't subject us to these pointless, non-relevant pseudo-intellectual blips. If the story counts are to be believed, many of your posts are among the lowest-read articles here. Sourcing piles of imitative-intelligentsia does not an intelligent argument make.

How's about crafting a completely original, thoughtful thesis on the true difference between hardcore and casual instead...something more academic than just fanboy baiting? Hell, I'd love to see that! Not trying to be rude, but someone had to say it.

loserguy

@Revenge_of_Nekojin: @TheBassKicks: You both win. Fanboyism has crawled out of their parent's dirty basements and into the glare of the internet, far more so then I remember being the case last gen.

I've owned all three at one point or another, they all have their ups and downs, and I'm glad all three exist for my enjoyment.

@Danilov.-: You're an idiot. Not for liking the PS3, but for being illiterate.

Jayl3w

@Larry Horse: I'd say on Kotaku it definitely leans towards the 360, but go on other sites and the ps3 fanboys are just as obnoxious. There will always be extremes on both sides, you can't just call out one side. Its always better to chill in the middle anyways, harder for the fanboy bullshit to reach you there.

Sweetsauce

@Indypunk:

And yes, I know that my icon is PS3 related. But I just like the game, regardless of the system. And like I said, I wasn't trying to support one system or the other.

Indypunk

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Gods. Can't wait for Yakuza 3. I have to say though, your list is a bit unbalanced. You listed past present and future exclusives on PS3, but only present and future on 360.

Not that I can blame you: The 360 list is long and cluttered with crap, but.. y'know.

HikariOblivion

Xbox is definitely in the lead but this generation, for once I have to say this is despite the machines themselves. The 360 is actually the worst thing to happen to the industry. It basically forced the "next-gen" to start before it was viable as a market. This is evident in that the leaders (Wii, PS2, DS) are still using last gen technology and the fact that the PS3 is way before it's time (as seen in price point) and the piece o' crap box that is the 360 with it's high failure rate and obviously flawed design (from an engineering point of view).

If gaming were to die within the next generation (the platforms after the 360 and PS3) history would point out it was Microsofts fault for killing the Xbox, GC, PS2 generation about 2 years earlier than it could have lasted.

angry_gamer

idk what YOU guys are talking about, but it seems to me that the 360 is way more casual than the PS3. The PS3 is the big mega system that you pay a lot for if you want that high quality, yet expensive experience. And from what I have seen over the years, the 360 gets the majority of it's sales from the semi-casual guys that just want to play Madden or CoD with their friends.
For example, whenever I hear that someone wants to buy a system for some serious, hard core gaming, they buy a PS3. Whenever I hear that someone is buying a system so they can play online with their friends, they buy a 360 because it's a bit cheaper.

I'm not saying that one system is better than the other, I'm just saying that I see the 360 as being for the more casual gamers, not so much for the hard core guys.

Indypunk

You know, I could come up with a huge magical post that could ring like golden clock tower bells in your ears and excrete beautiful rainbow coloured Unicorns...

But it's not worth my effort as 60% of the people commenting here are down right ignorant in their judgment.

Strife56