Early talk of a new console? Isn't that what scared 3rd parties away from the Saturn?

And it being just an upgraded PS3 makes it sound like the next Wii to me. Which was just an upgraded Gamecube. Do any of us really want that?

Antic791

@Mit: Seriously. With the amount consles are starting to cost, they need to make these things lest a bit so we get mileage out of out dollar. Plus you still have people finally starting to get into the ps3 and 360.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

@Mit: Too early? While I'm not one of them, there are plenty of people who think that 5-6 years is sufficient time between console.

XRFlip05

My PS3 hardly gets any use, for a variety of reasons, and it feels to me like the console hasn't been out for very long. I'm still waiting for all the awesome games 'just around the corner'.

I have trouble seeing how a PS4 would work as anything other than an upgrade or improvement to the current PS3, if they're talking about releasing the console 'soon'. But no harm in talking about the PS4 now, I guess... I just hope Sony have learned something from some of their mistakes this time around, and that their investment in the Cell pays off for not just them, but us as gamers.

Thorn

@Moar_pr0nz: Not Neccesarily if they use the cell again, you'll have developers who are experienced and thus will be able to use it well from the get go.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

@MrMister:
I love how the PS9 is essentially an empty snow globe.

Did I just make some kind of metaphor there!?

FireflyPunk

@XeroKool: Also I would imagine the SDK will be far more mature by then, and still be applicable. Transparency of cross platform development tools perhaps even, I heard they had some thing like this already, where you can do 'insta porting', sounded far too good to be true, but leveraged as an incentive to start development on PS3.
This would be less of a leap from ps2 architecture (strangeness) to cell (even stranger strangeness)...

Ehardergardens

I think 2011 is pretty damn early. But i think sony using an enhanced cell alongside a better gpu is a fairly viable and cheap option for the next generation of consoles... Or maybe 3 cells and 2 gpus.... and a holodeck....

snakepliskin

@Ken: Ha, awesome.

milkmonkey

@Ouren:
there's a joke in here somewhere, but my genius does not lie in that direction

ZinkO: preferred the old theme AND comment system

You wait till PS9 does come out, it will deliever everything the commerical promised. But unfortunaly Nintendo will come out with new the Wii "Ball in a cup" technology that allows players to interact with inserting a sphere in a mushroom shaped cup. Nintendo will have finally have beaten Playstation like it had Xbox 4 and Dreamcast 2.

cap-n-crunch

@flclkris: Heartily agree.

milkmonkey

Seems too early..there's barely any games too.
The picture looks like the psp logo with the last P backwards.

Expresso

Consoles: Coming too soon, too fast.

Ouren

@JGab:

You forgot steps 7 and 8:
Step 7: ????
Step 8: Profit!!!

Oh and by the time they get to PS9 it will be size and price of a house (it the pattern is to be continued) and come with mind reading abilities, not to mention being able to do 3 Bajillion Calculations per second.

AUAnonymous

It is WAY too early to be talking about PS4. If anything, Sony should want to bide its time with PS3 for as long as possible. The only possible reasons that would warrant the release of PS4 would if it would cost significantly less to manufacture than the PS3's initial cost and is significantly easier to develop for. Regardless, Sony should wait a while and keep improving the PS3. They need time to learn from their mistakes.

Ryodestined

Ps4? already? I'm still waiting for a few more good games to get one!

VakeroRokero

I think it needs more cells, but that can be just me?

kidgold

Wasn't cell supposed to be a new processor platform? It makes sense that they want to keep developing their new chip that they spent so much money on.

Aside from that though it's ridiculous to think Sony would come out with PS4 so soon. With the way the economy is going and how few people have bought into this generation yet talking about the next generation already is just...

Look I got a Wii when it came out and I'm still trying to save up for the PS3 to buy maybe next year. A young kid in college, always loved videogames. I mean for fricken god's sake Gran Turismo isn't even out yet. I don't know how good of an example I am but this gamer couldn't give a flying **** about PS4 or any other game system for at least another 4 or 5 years.

flclkris

Ah yes...it starts again...

Step 1: Release console
Step 2: Become successful or fail
Step 3: Wait a year for innovations to be argued
Step 4: Speculate on what the next generation starting in three years will be like.
Step 5: Release new console that was against most speculation.
Step 6: Repeat.

JGab

2011 even is too early for a new console generation I think. There will be plenty of life and potential left in the PS3 and 360 by then. Think we should actually wait until we're a bit closer to the end of these consoles "10 year lifespans" to release new hardware, especially with how powerful it is already.

The Wii however, definitely isn't going to last that long.

Mit

@tralfaz23: We don't talk about the PS7. Let's just say "red ring of death" has a literal translation with that system.

Ken

32 cores would be a pain for multiprogramming.

Shin-san

@Noks415: Wow, someone with an actual logical response. Kudos to you good sir.

XeroKool

@dowingba: it probably means PS3 games will work just fine. The real problem will be which graphics card they choose to be used in the PS4, that can really mess up compatibility.

Noks415

but what about the PS console that hooks up to my brain? i want that one

tralfaz23

First make the PS9 a possibility, then let's talk PS4. Wait, that doesn't make any sense.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

I see this more as being an updated version of the PS3...a PS3 Lite, if you will. Haha, maybe even with an Apple White paintjob to complete the reference.

GhostWhoWalks

@MrMister: It's either that or cocaine... considering how much the PS9 will cost, I'll go for the cocaine.

PatMan33

@Faradin: Its the PS9 from a commercial they ran a couple of years back. It was basically speculating about the future of gaming consoles. If I remember correctly the "game" was like an ethereal matrix.

Griffen

@Faradin: Ashcraft just used an old pic that doesn't make any sense.

theEnemy

Don't see it happening so soon.. but making the PS4 a more powerful PS3 seems like a good idea to me. Would make things easier to developers who would have some good experience with the PS3 and would also make backward compatibility instantaneous, like the Wii/GC.

CockroachMan

@Moar_pr0nz: Uh.. the Cell isn't convoluted. It's just the PS3 infrastructure isn't as easy as the 360's, cause everything there is based on DirectX and easy for PC developers to port

HikariOblivion

Ah, the good ole PS9. Looking forward to that one myself.

smartboydan hates college

I wonder what this means for backwards compatibility. If they use the same processor for the PS4 except slightly updated.

dowingba

@Moar_pr0nz: It's always good to explore an alternative. Perhaps Sony might be on to something greater, you never know unless you chase it.

scotty

@subterfunk: It uses the Cell architecture, just with more cores, so theoretically PS3 games should be playable on a PS4 with very little effort vs what we are currently seeing with PS2 games on the newer PS3

djricekcn

@Faradin:

Nah, thats a 9. Its from the "PS9" commercials they had right before the launch of the PS3, or was it the PS2?

Greenman

More cores they don't really need. Simply add the ERAM (embedded RAM) to the processors like IBM is doing already in some applications and up the processors speeds and the PS4 should be done. Takes care of a couple complaints at least of the PS3, those being the lack of physical memory like a normal PC and with the same architecture there wouldn't be as large a learning curve as there is with the PS3. As anyone with prior PS3 development would already be well versed in the architecture. And hey, more RAM so you don't have to think as much about how to use all of that power. Yay.

DrunkRaba

PS9 confirmed!

MrMister

@Faradin: looks like a 9 to me.

ZinkO: preferred the old theme AND comment system

@theEnemy: Really, PS2 is still great, even now.

HikariOblivion

@Faradin: Nope, it's a 9. It's from a Playstation TV advert years back.

Morpork

@Faradin: It's a 9, it's from an old PS2 commercial

HikariOblivion

@Moar_pr0nz: one bright sid eis that if they star tthis early they can get rid of bugs and all that stuff by the time the PS3 gets near the end.

solosith

Is... is that supposed to be a four?

Faradin

I really hope no one sees this in a negative light. The reason Sony and Toshiba invested so much money into the development of the cell was because they wanted a processor that was easily scalable.

The cell is meant to be used in devices ranging from cellular phones to HD TVs and super computers(Roadrunner), and has been implemented into such devices.

What I'm trying to say, is that the cell is very versatile
and I doubt the exact same PS3 cell processor is going to be used in the PS4, it's gonna be a more powerful and advanced version. Which is a good thing because developers will have already familiarized themselves with the cell architecture and will have an easier time developing for any cell based console.

Noks415

but will it have ps2 backwards compatibility?

or perhaps give the ps3 forwards compatibility?

subterfunk

This can really be looked at in one of two ways. Either keeping the cells could lead to continued developer hatred without any major processing gains, or the cell starts showing there is more to it than has been currently seen and the fact that developers have already had 1 generation to work with it could make it a far more viable platform. I think the next couple years really could be make or break for the cell.

Greenman

Using the Cell once again would be just be Sony shooting itself in the foot. I should think they might've learned there lesson about using convuluted architectures. And a ps4 anytime soon seems highly unlikely and almost foolish considering Sony lost so much with this generation.

Moar_pr0nz

PS4 on 2011..

hmmn...

Let's think about that in 2011.

My PS3 is still great.

theEnemy

So what you're saying is that my collection of PS3 games will maybe be up to 3 or 4 games prior to PS4's release?

Hooray.

Oceaniax

how much is this ps4 gonna cost the ps3 is already expensive as it is whos gonna buy this? its gonna be like $1000 hahahahahahahha

dboy93

Actually, it probably needs more RAM. I mean, I'm no Sony fanboy... in fact, I'm going to go ahead and say Sony was legally retarded about what I'm about to say:

Why put an expensive CPU into a console that can chew up so much data, and then "cut costs" by giving it only 256 mb RAM? I mean... if you're only putting in 256 mb RAM... might as well also "cut costs" by putting in... I don't know... a cheaper CPU?

BtownDesignGuy

I bet they put more RAM into this one. As long as it is BC I don't mind, I would like to see some other features as well. Like DVI out for a second monitor, Faster WiFi, an actual operating system that has more than a browser maybe. Sounds like a computer I know, but as long as it is cheap and has another line up of wonderful exclusives from talented studios I will wait in line once again.

Patient

32 cores huh? Well, good luck with that.

nickymouse

Dont have any authority to write this off as nonsense or not. Im not on Sony's Board of Directors and I have no idea what they plan on doing next. Same way I had no idea Nintendo was going to go the Wii direction instead of following the advanced console path Microsoft and Sony followed.

I will say this though - Yes it is possible for the PS4 to release in 2011. It is possible for the PS4 to release in 2010! Contrary to what people want to believe, Sony is not going to support the PS3 for 10 years running if they are unable to do so, and as Microsoft has shown us in the last generation or so with the xbox, a console's lifespan is directly related to its market success. If no one is buying your console and you're taking a loss with every unit sold, you will be forced to CLOSE SHOP whether you want to or not. Sony is no exception here, and I know some of you want to be gullible and buy into Ken Kutaragi's starry-eyed propaganda of big brother PS3 following in the footsteps of little brother PS2, but the analysis is not that simple, it never was. Put on your thinking caps for a second here and stop being sheep if you dare.

That is all

Logic1

@ZinkO: preferred the old theme AND comment system: Hmmm... how about this, That's what she said.

JohnnyHash

This reminds me of the article the Onion once published that said, "Ghost of Christmas future taunts children with visions of the ps5."

squidboy007

@FireflyPunk:
Rosebud.

WackyComputer

@DrunkRaba: Actually they could do with having more PPU's and more SPU's, it'll take care of two things straight away, one is the need to have more horsepower for branch heavy code and the other is to have more raw power for DSP tasks... if they do so (And look, Intel is saying Sony/IBM/Toshiba were right, just look at Larrabee) and they spend some time working on the dev chain (Seriously, call Metrowerks, no one knows PPC ISA development like they do) they could have a hit processor in their hands.

More RAM too... but I hope that whatever they decide to use as a GPU better have some beefy framebuffer memory.

zoesch

i think that for these companies to stay alive as soon as their new console gets released, they should be planning out the one after that...

as far as i'm concerned, if you put out a console too early (which both MS and Sony should be kicked in the virtual nuts for) then the best they can do is tackle production problems and the like AFTER a launch....now the PS3 launch seems to have gone much better than the deathstar...*cough* sorry, 360.....but doesn't mean a little more time on the drawing board should be skipped because they "won" the broken race....

any company that takes on the design of their next system this early into their current generation system should be applauded...it shows that (at least at first blush anyways) they are trying to make the next one better....not just in specs either

if MS isn't already planning a xbox 1080 (or it would be called) then shame on them, because when the 360 becomes long in the tooth, they will be doomed to the same aweful launch they just got done paying out the ass for

drlard

are they fucking kidding lol. this is just rediculous. that's why i will stick with xbox 360 for a very long time. longer than any other console i have ever had.

dipsetboy17

No, it's absolutely nowhere near the time where we should talk about ps4

sc00t420

@Shin-san: Hopefully not by then. A lot of really smart people are working on ways to have processing threads gang-bang instruction. I think with more a efficient memory architecture and inter-process communication, we can make the most of threading. The key here is that manufactures seem to be adding to rather then ripping out the guts and starting over. This should be interesting. I'm still skeptical about how they plan to achieve twice the performance with just a bit over 150% increase the hardware... my guess is they'll probably increase the clock for each SPE and ad another controller processor.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@Expresso: That's the logo from an ad for the PS9... it was really an ad for the PS2. But yeah, I have 43 PS3 games so you can stop with the no games line any time you feel like it.

Terminus

@Ghostm:

Do you not realize it takes years of planning to make a console? You think they should just wait till last minute and slap some stuff together? That's not how it works. Every single company right now is making their plans for a next gen console. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony.

LittleBigPlaneteer

The power of the orb.... careful, cause it'll melt your face off

On a serious note, if/when it becomes a reality, I hope that it will be fully compatible with all PS games

Japan_Time

@BtownDesignGuy: Yeah, damn that 700 dollar machine with no games and only 256 megs of ram that uses up more power than any appliance in your house and causes global warming.

bobtheduck

This isn't coming out for a while. I think 2011 may be the first concrete things we hear about it, and 2012 we will see the PS4 released. That's roughly the same amount of time from the PS2 to the PS3.

Also I hope no one is surprised that they're using the cell still. They've invested a whole lot in that. It's like being surprised that it'll be a Blu-ray drive.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@cap-n-crunch:

Wii Ball in a Cup, Ball in a cup, It's a ball in a cup! BALL IN A CUP!

Glaiel-Gamer

Here it goes again... The PS3 is fairly new. Why on earth would Sony be thinking about a new console. Starting over again would totally screw Sony royally. To my understanding, Sony is going to stick to the PS3 hardware for as long as they can in this lifetime. Specially after all the money they are putting out and haven't recouped. God forbid this rumor is not a joke. If this does happen, then Sony will go under for sure. I for one would no longer support their products.

Ghostm

@SansSanity: I play my PS2 games on my 60 gig US PS3. HA... haha... ha... haha... backwards compatible.

Seriously, though, they already started hiring people to work on BC for PS4, as they were just eliminating all BC capable PS3s... I'm gonna make sure to get one at launch, because it's supposed to play games from all 3 previous systems if the "help wanted" kind of messages were correct... I wanna get it before PS3 games are no longer supported and it's just PS2 and PS1 and PSP...

If the PS3 comes out in 2011, that's still better than the xbox--->360 span... But not good by any means.

bobtheduck

I was still saying this about the PS2 a year ago...but is there really any reason why we would *need* a PS4 so soon? Maybe I just have low standards, but I don't really look at current gen games and think about how they're falling short of where they should be. I do however think that we could use some more games...preferably JRPGs...you writing this down, Sony?

ProdigalMoon

This was on Gizmodo a few days ago.

IMO, they should let the platform mature before moving onto something new, but that's only good for the gamers and who cares about those guys?

AlbenoEpiX

I don't know-- for Sony to have sold off the remaining interest in the Cell venture to Toshiba, and then to suddenly decide the future of the PlayStation remains with the tech they sold their entire stake in? Sounds implausible. Not impossible, but unlikely. Unless we begin to see the industry really, really embrace the unique challenges of the Cell as an architecture, I just don't see Sony hitching their future to a (relatively) unloved third-party technology.

wild homes loves you but chooses darkness!

@cap-n-crunch: I feel that's the only thing really missing from my games.

Polite Society

Hmm perhaps they're trying to pull what Microsoft did with the 360 by getting a jump on the competition? I'm just throwing this out there since all the talk is about tech specs.

Ineffable

So the PS4 could actually be a firmware update that unlocks the processor speeds to overclock like crazy?? Sounds simple. lol..(THAT would be the affordable way of doing it :p )

Grandreaper999

a bit early for ps4 talk, sony should be to hard at work on Wild arms, ico, slycooper, arc the lad etc to be messing around with a new system

scdnyc

@HikariOblivion: Agreed. I still play the PS2 way more than my Xbox 360

SansSanity

@Oceaniax:

We may only have one year to play. Doesn't the Aztec calender end in 2012?

People are constantly telling me the world will end D:

CreativeCat89

I'm not buying a new home console until 2015. Screw thinking about the PS4. The PS3 better be solid strong until then.

Zuiyo

@Noks415:
that's exactly the right direction sony should go. the current PS3 cell is a single "main" core and 7 SPUs, the PS4 cell can easily be adjusted to something like 2 "main" cores with 20 SPUs or something. hell, they could even keep this technology and scale it for the PS5.

if they play this right, they may easily win back developers over the next generation or two of consoles (without resorting to bribes, i.e. exclusives).

willyolio

For the record, there was early talk of the PS3 in around 2002, so this isn't that unexepected.

HikariOblivion

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Don't forget ROID2!. That's the one i'll buy!

Dynosaulo

@Moar_pr0nz: The only reason the cell was difficult before was because devs just werent used to having processors during certain tasks.

Now that developers are getting used to the cell, I'm sure they would say the cell is how it should have been done from the beginning since its way more efficient for games

Sousanator

Hmm ps4 already? since they talkin bout it and whatnot... isn't there a way for them to make a mock up model with everything needed... and when the time comes they be producin 65mn chips... b4 its even release? or mayb its not possible *shrugs*

SuMtOnE

@Moar_pr0nz:
somebody doesn't understand anything about development.

sony would be shooting itself in the foot if they used anything OTHER than the cell.

developers will have had maybe 5 years of experience with the cell by the time the PS4 comes out. by then most of them would have figured it out. and you're telling them that they should just drop everything they've learned in the last 5 years and learn another new architecture, or just give them a new, faster version of what they've been working with all this time?

willyolio

Given the increased costs of development, hardware and the games themselves this generation, I can't see how anybody could be legitly focused on the next generation. It just seems too soon and none of the consoles have yet to show their age (except the Wii, but that's another story). I could understand with the PS2 because that was starting to look old a couple years in, but PS3 has too much untapped potential and nowhere near enough a user base to even begin considering a PS4.

Five to six years just doesn't seem like a long enough lifespan for a generation as powerful (and as pricey) as this one.

reximusmaximus

Now the question is what will we see first, Final Fantasy 13 or the PS4?

T-Mac

Why the hell is every saying this is coming soon? Is there a release date? Are most of you so clueless that you think these things aren't planned years in advance? It takes YEARS to plan and design a console. If they want some to be ready by 2013 they have to start laying the groundwork for that NOW. It's not like they're saying the PS4 is coming in 2009 or even 2010, so why say this is so soon?

I pretty much can guarantee this won't be seen until 2011 the earliest and that's a solid 5 years since the PS3 was released. My real guess is 2012 though.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Because everyone's eager to accuse Sony of what Microsoft was guilty of last gen and Sony fans railed on them for... People are eager to find contradiction and hypocricy. If the other side are hypocrites, they sleep better at night. The same goes for all fandoms.

bobtheduck

@AlbenoEpiX: Considering this isn't Sony talking, maybe it's someone else who knows this kind of talk can damage a console maker?

Guess it's about even, now, since Sony fans (like me) have been saying teh same thing about the next Xbox... Except there's actually precedence for the box having a short lifetime... It's coming close to passing the lifespan of its previous incarnation already!

bobtheduck

@reximusmaximus: Yeah, I have to agree. We're in the equivelant of.. 2002, per last gen, and it feels more like we're still getting started. (Last gen started in 1999 with the Dreamcast, this one starting 2005 with the 360)

Last gen hit it's stride in 2004, so the equivelant to that is 2010.

HikariOblivion

With all this next next generation crap, I think I'm gonna skip this generation and continue playing my PS2 and PSP ( I also have a Wii but I'm ashamed to admit it atm) and wait for a PS4/WiiII or Xbox720.

Meeeh

@Frank:

No it wouldn't. That's like saying the planning of a PS3 in 2003-2004 is acknowledging defeat for the PS2. It takes years to plan these things you know. Why you people can't grasp this bit of common sense is beyond me.

LittleBigPlaneteer

PS4 or Slim PS3?

Concrete plans for the 4 would be acknowledging defeat in the console war.

Frank

Well by 2011, blu-ray drives will be significantly cheaper and with the Cell already developed, it should also be cheaper as well. I highly doubt the PS4 will cost 500-600 on launch day.

LeLoi

The PS3 better have a 10 year life span. I spent $400 on this beast and still haven't played any killer apps. LBP will change this I hope.

omfg_its_dally

i haven't even settled comfortably into the current gen yet.

how much moar graphix do we need?!!

;p

bialia

@willyolio: So basically, PS3 is a $600 training wheel for developers. That's comforting to know.

Lordstrom

if the ps4 wont be better than the ps3 then why even make it??? ps3 has 65nm cell and this so call ps4 will have 35nm to make it cheaper. all I can say is SONY!!!!! learn from your crappy mistake high price ps3 and allow ps4 start at 350.00 Im sure the 720 xbox will start at 350.00

hotmeat

@LittleBigPlaneteer: In 2003, the PS2 was already "the stuff", so planning for the PS3 then would already be "building on that success."

Today, however, the situation's completely different. All it takes is one announcement of a big name title from a competitor to draw peoples' attention away from any Sony games (regardless of the "no games" theory's validity).

Given the clearly disappointing sales of the PS3 at this point - even the PS2 was already a hot seller at this point in its cycle, planning for the PS4 as compared to a "Slim" PS3 is clearly "repairing the mistake" rather than "building on the success."

Frank

@Lordstrom:

Nope, if they were thinking in a console like a training wheel for developers they would made a console easy to port PC games without the problem of using a revolutionary processor even if that means they could loss a tech advantage over other consoles just for laziness

eggnog007

@Patient: Well, I imagine at this point, a PS4 could probably do pure software emulation, the way the 40GB PS3 handles PS1.

RawSteelUT

@Shiroi Kaze:

Unless you missed it, the PS2 is still going strong and is very much alive despite the PS3 being out for nearly 3 years. Just because they stated a 10 year plan in no way means a new console wouldn't be released before 2016. It just means they will be supporting it till then, just like they've been doing with the PS2 now and will continue to do so till 2011 or so (the PS2's ten year mark).

LittleBigPlaneteer

im all for ps4... i was a proud sony hater in the first 2 gens of playstation... now im all above that.. and actually really like the ps3.. quite a bit.

theres only one thing i wish for the next playstation..

a name change... please no ps4. sure.. use the playstation moniker. but then a different name.. like the playstation eclipse.. or whatever... you get the idea. like playstation is the obvious part.. but please.. 3 is enough... no more numerical sequels!

shouryuuken

Well, Sony has said that they aim to challenge x86/64 platform with Cell, create another standard computing platform. Abandoning the architecture so soon would be wasted effort. They should have enough time to put together decent development tools now that they have real life experience with Cell, or at least one could hope so as that's been the weakest link with PS3.

ara

C'mon, Ace Combat Zero HD Remix.

interim

In asian cultures, the number 4 means "death", but I guess that doesn't really stop companies now does it?

Also, what happened to their 10-year goal?

Shiroi Kaze

Didn't Ken Kutaragi say this was going to be the case? He said there would be "upgraded" versions of the PS3 with different features and hardware configs. At launch.

GOLD5

@bobtheduck: You guys are forgetting something... NES IS still great! And i really mean it.
Also, ive been lately replaying my old Mega Man X and Sonic games so kudos for SNES and Mega Drive too.

Marduk

they should just make the ps3 smaller with a bigger hard drive and ps2 back comp and relaunch it.

TT

Well by 2011, blu-ray drives will be significantly cheaper and with the Cell already developed, it should also be cheaper as well. I highly doubt the PS4 will cost 500-600 on launch day.

YEAH, THATS WHY PS3 IS NOT SELLING SO WELL NOW HIGH A$$ PRICE I BET PS4 WILL BE 350-400.00

hotmeat

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Sorry, wasn't thinking it all the way through when I typed that up, it just seemed so long already. But yeah, you are right.

Shiroi Kaze

Just don't cut corners on the RAM memory like they did with the PS3. Learn from your mistakes...

pupaboy3

@Noks415:

true.

and if the ps4 did indeed have 32 cell processors, as they estimated in the article above, it seems that they should be able to play 4 ps3 games on the console simultaneously! aha! well, i guess unless other aspects of the console would constrict that.

joeloliol

@LittleBigPlaneteer: 2010. PS2 came out in Fall 2000. I remember it well. :)

Sigh, such innocent times. I wish for them back :(

HikariOblivion

The PS4?! Is Sony trying to follow in the foot steps of Sega's classic burn out (and Atari's)? Because, they sure are on the same damn road.

1.) Bring out a expensive console
2.) Removing backwards compatibility
3.) Changing SKU modes
4.) Pissing off 3 party developers
5.) Pissing of customers
6.) Making a NEW console, to fix the problems with the old one.

History repeats itself again... and again... and

jamBot

Im still playing PS2 games.

Dogswithguns

@cap-n-crunch: lol fantastic you're my new favorite person :)

ButterToast

One year to play my PS4 as well? Damn.

shrek187

Actually continuing to utilize the Cell Processor would be a pretty good move. It's a fairly scalable and since the architecture would essentially remain unchanged any programs designed to run on the PS3 Cell should easily run on a much more powerful PS4 Cell.

Besides that, realistically developers shouldn't need a CPU that's ten or twenty times as powerful as the current Cell Processor. We frequently don't even fully utilize what we have right now and the advent of GPGPU's in consoles should slightly de-emphasize the need for ultra beefy CPU's.

So in short, this would be cheaper than using an entirely new CPU, could easily be four to five times more powerful, and many developers will know how to program for it on day one.

Call me crazy, but that sounds like a winning formula right there.

WolvenOne

@zoesch: Agreed. Processor and software R&D is in the direction of parallelism, rather than MHz.

Scipher

@eggnog007: We should try to avoid speaking in terms of developer laziness. The decision on whether to develop for the PS3 is driven by cost and return. We can't ignore that there's a significant outlay in budget on training and technical discovery when building a PS3 game for the first time when the developer's background is general purpose CPU threading ala PC.

Scipher

@jamBot:

Sorry this is exactly what Nintendo has done last two generations and look where they are now.

Garo

"It's Time To Talk PS4" No, it isn't. The hardware in PCs themselves has really hit into some vertical walls, and until some of these are overcome in an efficient manner, any successive console you make will not be much more powerful than the previous one. Furthermore, people won't be ready for the new console yet (financially), and will have less reason to justify a purchase.

about using the cell again: The only reason why they would want to stick with the cell is that it would be nearly impossible to emulate in any useful manner. I still contend that the cell sucks for general processing, like the kind used in games.

Akin

what will be called ps4 next of next gen ?

EvilHunter

it sucks that have so many people to tell us the same thing.

alby13

Makes sense to me. Now, that the middleware's out for the PS3, adapting it to more cores wouldn't be all that difficult, I imagine. So while the architecture is convoluted, most developers have solved the important problems. Backwards compatibility with the PS3 would also be pretty trivial. The costs would be lower than designing a new chip from scratch. The PPE in the Cell will have to be significantly upgraded though.

MadMinstrel

If the economy is still in the tank in 2011 (quite possible) then releasing the console during a recession is suicide. Especially since the price points jumped up so dramatically between generations.

arstal

Ah, in the fairytale land of Lordstrom the PS3 devkit is only $600! All PS3 developers relocating shortly.

MatthewMajuju

@Sousanator: "...I'm sure they would say the cell is how it should have been done from the beginning since its way more efficient for games"

Funny that - everywhere I look devs are saying that the cell is more efficient for processor intensive calculations, whereas the 360 chip is better for games and getting the geometry out there.

On a side note, isnt the cell supposed to scale well? By that I mean if you double the amount of cells you get double the power? (or there abouts)

Shod

@joeloliol: You can have the fastest processor in the world, but in the end it means squat if the information is bottle necked and low amount of ram.

I seriously hope the next gen have at least 512MB of VRAM (16MB VRAM buffer like the XB360 has) and 512MB-768MB of system RAM that way we don't end up having upscaled images.

Of course since the Cell is fast at processing so they probably need a dedicated ram to buffer the information.

Still I don't see the general CPU core dying out anytime soon considering most of us are still using 32-bit coded O/S even though most of us have 64bit processors.

Neko_Tech

@Garo: Pretty Much.

휘성

Don't really care. It will come out when it will come out. In the mean time I shall play my games and enjoyt them on the current consoles.

휘성

I think I'll just skip buying the PS3 and go buy the PS4 when it comes out.

backwards compatability afterall.

chaos_isnt_here

@Noks415: The GPU will definitely be from nVidia. nVidia's gpus have internal, hardware backwards-compatibility support. And always provide great recompilers and HALs.

somarix

regardless of when the next sony system will come and if will have 600 cell cores glued together or not, sony clearly needs to address how easy their platform is to code for, and pump as much money as possible into that principle. in terms of games the psx and ps2 got off to such better starts than the ps3 its really not funny...

autolux

They simply confirm/support what I've predicted. The Cell just needs more cores (at least 1 PPU and double the SPUs) to be the next console's cpu. More XDR ram, a good nVidia card of DX11 generation - and that's it. Plus maybe a GB or two of cheap DDR2.
It all comes from the GHz limitation, and the fact that the PS3 hardware (like wifi, sndcard, etc) is already making the hardware complete.

Btw, don't lie to yourself that the PS4 will come in the next 7 years :). This is just the development, that any company starts to make after releases a piece of hardware.

somarix

8 cell to 32? PS4 is going to be 4 times faster, 4 times more expensive and 4 times the size! Professor Frink's dreams are becoming a reality!

Kriskof

What's in a name as long as the graphics and processing grow similar to previous consoles from one generation to the next. But I for one won't be buying a console every 2 or 3 years. For me it's going to be 5 or more, preferably 8 years. I mean I didn't buy a ps1 until 2 or 3 years after release and same for the ps2. The only one I got on release day is the ps3. Never own an xbox or 360. So if the ps4 comes out, you can bet I can hold it off. I won't be buying if I don't think it has grown leaps and bounds.

pikpikjuice

@kidgold: I agree but the real problem will be the nividia graphic chip. Backwards compatibality will be important for sony to pull off.

lostinseganet

@Mit: Man forget that. Gamers need progress. Gamers nedd power! Bring on the upgrades

lostinseganet

First off, I remember that picture from back in the day when the PS2 just launched and they had that massively futuristic commercial for no apparent reason pushing the "PS9". Now they're starting to spread insane rumors of the PS4? Come on, people. First get a console to hold it's own and stand on it's own 2 feet before shitting out another console. Sony has to learn in this new generation they must crawl before they can walk, or in this case let alone run to the finish.

acez2087

@bialia: About 10 terraflops? Ithink that will satisfy the gamers hunger for power.

lostinseganet

@SuMtOnE: 45nm-22nm would be the name of the game by then.

lostinseganet

@ProdigalMoon: Final fantasy 7 for PS4! That milkshake will bring the boys to the mall.

lostinseganet

@Patient: I fell that Backward compatitility is critical. It will quite many on the fence thinking that this is happening too soon. I totally agree with you on the RAM large and fast is what they need.

lostinseganet

@Kriskof: Never heard of that person...who?

lostinseganet

@Noks415: Technically, all they would need to do is scale the chip down to 32nm node, up the clock to 4GHz (original target), double the spe's, double the ppe, double the memory, upgrade to a faster gpu, and increase the bandwidth of the gpu-cpu interconnect. That's all.

torched

@lostinseganet: gamers need money!

shade-black

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I agree. 2011 sounds so close, when in technological reality, I guess it is a pretty long life span for a console.

avconsumer2

The sooner the better.

kryo

y do they have to release ps4 so soon i don want to have to buy another console in 2011

onionhead_o

@CreativeCat89: Mayan.

They were pretty good at the whole astronomy thing, so you never know.

DUN DUN DUN!

Seriously though, it's a misinterpretation. The mayan calendar was around 5125 years long, and it ends on 2012. However, they did understand the concept of time linearity, and their calendar was basically cyclical.

Grive

@Grive: Erm, to explain better.

Their calendar used five different orders of magnitude, and they only used five on their calendars, and because of their design, after the last year, you'd end up with the first one next.

They did use higher orders of magnitude in writing, but frankly, who needs a rock calendar with more than 5125 years on it?

Imagine having a rolodex-type of modern calendar, which documents from year zero to the year 9999. An alien civilization conquers us and kills us all, and they manage to understand that this rolodex is a calendar. They might end up thinking that we believe the world will end in december 31, 9999, and the world will reset to the year zero.

Or, they might decide that we simply couldn't be arsed to make it all the way to infinity.

Grive

What about calling it something other than friggin PS4?

What's this weird trend?

Master System -> Genesis -> Saturn -> Dreamcast

NES -> SNES -> N64 -> Gamecube -> Wii

Now it's all:

Playstation -> Playtation 2 -> Playstation 3 (w00t for originality)

Xbox -> Xbox 360

Axass

@shade-black:

Hear hear!

Squirrelbot3000

@theEnemy:

Word. I'm two years late to the party (just getting my MGS4 bundle-- the good one, not the overpriced one) and now some yahoo has to go and start PS4 rumors? With the price of games high as they are, I generally have to buy used.

And at the rate they're treating PS2 backwards compatability, I'm going on record right now and saying that PS4 will still only play PS1 games, ignoring the past two generations.

Squirrelbot3000

Why waste time with a 32 core processor when programmers are avoiding the PS3 because 4 cores is a pain?

I think Console companies need to develope more powerful graphics and physics processors for the next generation games which in my opinion will be core to next gen games. Expecially when more and more games are using more advanced physics and consumers require HD content galor.

Raptr569

@Logic1: The problem here is that the ball is no longer in Sony's court. Yes, they can start out this generation first, but now they will be in the perpetual shadow of Microsoft and Nintendo, as long as neither MS or Nintendo screw up like Sony did last time. Sony NEEDS to make sure the PS4 launches at $300 AND that they make money off it, or they WILL go the way of Sega.

samaine

@TheFamous1: 360 has a lot of good games and all, but come on. It's the PS2: there are hundreds of cheap, fantastic games out there to play. I still have a backlog of PS2 games to beat :/

mfwahwah

@Oceaniax: Look everybody! Oceaniax is stuck in 2007!

mfwahwah

Still really far away....But it will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine.

boots555

@SansSanity: You play your PS2 way more than your Xbox 360? Something is wrong with you son!

TheFamous1

@Moar_pr0nz: Dude, like so many other people, blogs etc. you are so wrong.

The ONLY reason the cell processor is more difficult to code for than any other processor is the fact that that you HAVE to write parallel code to get the best out of it. With the Xbox triple core, you have three good cores so you can get away with just using one and still have a codebase similar to what might be on a PC.

All chips and code are going parallel, multi core whatever. It's the future.

If MS want to improve their games they are going to have to optimize more towards running on many-core chips.

Sony have already made this transistion, they have a head start. Once a developer knows what they are doing there is little difference between coding for 5 cores or a hundred cores other than the amount of jobs you can run.

Many Core is the only way forward, chips are not going to keep getting much faster.

Sony would be muppets to drop Cell, they have already paid for it and lots of people now know how to use it. If developers don't learn to program on these many core chips they are out of business in the long run.

Also, I read somewhere of an IBM demonstration of a 65nm dual PPE and 32 SPE chip running at 6Ghz about a year ago, so I expect whatever goes in the PS4 will something like that only on 32nm or something. MS will probably go for larrabee.

32 SPE will probably be enough for ray tracing.

bandstand124

there's been alot of talk about next gen consoles lately. first wii hd and now ps4. Imo it seems too soon for us to be buzzing already. and i spent $400 on a ps3 because i dont have the money to upgrade a pc, and i expect game consoles to last at least 7 years before they become obsolete. 2011 will make 5 yrs for the ps3 and i got mine earlier this year. id be really annoyed if i had to buy something new after only 3 yrs of enjoyment. plus, we havent done nearly as much as we can with the ps3 yet and i dont think we will have by 2011 either.
the wii on the other hand could use a boost. so far i havent heard any upgrades, but only features that the wii should have had in the first place. the same goes for the new ds and psp.

Kartune

i only own one ps3 game. im starting to feel REALLY ripped off....

KingKevin

Of course they are talking about the PS4. The development cycle for a next-gen game console may be five years. Production and wide-spread availability might not be until 2013. Developer's kits, middle-ware, etc. take a long time to get on the market; without them a new console would be practically useless.

bornonce

@Moar_pr0nz: I have to agree with some of the commenters here, using CELL would be a good move on Sony's part. Parallel processing is the future, developers have learned the architecture, CELL has some more headroom, it makes the transition cheaper for both Sony and developers, the OS won't really need an entire re-code, etc etc.

Sony, go CELL!

hezz05

Also that logo needs some work.

anabbeynormality

If they want to beat the next release of the Xbox, then they need to shut up about it. Obviously Microsoft's strategy of releasing a poor quality system ahead of the competition has been one that works for them, and I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to rush out a system in a year's time if they know that Sony's aiming to get the edge.

I think a PS4 release could also be just more annoying to consumers then anything. the full potential of the PS3 has barely been tapped. Getting to the level of graphics that the PS3 can pull off already requires staggering production costs. It doesn't feel like the hardware is the limiting factor to graphics at this point.

anabbeynormality

@MrMister: I so knew I wasn't the only person on earth who rememebered that commercial. When I saw it, I shooped bricks!

Elmo

@autolux: Oh, you mean the introduction of 3D to 2D gamedevs faced in PSX (I've read the tech papers Sony had been giving them...), or the elusive stream-or-die architecture of PS2, that has so many different asymmetric cores that it's not even funny?

somarix

@Moar_pr0nz:

Well so far in this consol generation the ONLY company to get it in the green has been Nintendo.

But I guess it kinda makes sence. The PS2 was far ahead of the Xbox so they scrapped it and got the "new thing" out before Sony.

Though the difference in lead the Xbox 360 got to the PS3 is a whole lot smaller, than the one PS2 had on the Xbox.

Guess we just have to wait and see.

Cragen

Yes.

XdragonSB