@SirFenwick: Maybe this xbox will have 3 red lights when you power it on and 3 green lights when it isnt working..... Wait, what?

Xuchilbara

@FP_slomo788: That's not true. That's so far from the truth that I'm gonna assume you were joking.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@Milkzhakes: Many gaming journalists have played the game very recently with 8 player co-op and all of them walked impressed. I'll give you the 60 players for now but with the flawless 40-player games in RFoM I'm willing to bet that it will be amazing again. In other words, try again.

FP_slomo788

@SirFenwick: You might want to ask IGN/Gamespy a little about that "industry secret". Needless to say, PSN is in fact far less robust than LIVE but Sony is aggressive enough to work towards it not remaining like that.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

Some of the stuff in Fable II we're doing with co-op is only possible because of the way that LIVE is structured

so they cant do two player co-op on psn? even though insomniac put 8 player co-op in resistance 2

someone please explain

mal_tez92

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Well at least Cliffy was speaking as a gamer, and many gamers agree with him that the 360 controller feels better. But has Molyneux ever even tried to work on the PSN? Or any PS3 game for that matter?

FP_slomo788

Peter can't compare and contrast without making a PlayStaion 3 game now.

zkotaku

Same reason I like the 360, but the PS3 still has a lot on it on the hardware side.

nickymouse

That's about the fairest assessment I've seen from a guy who favors the 360. If only Cliffy B could sound this intelligent.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Milkzhakes: Yes cause I am sure Insomniac would risk their rep for something that they were not posotive would work properly....

Xuchilbara

@Thrazor: In what sense? I want you to convince me that it's *much* better.

FP_slomo788

@FP_slomo788: The one example I can think of off the top of my head is Rainbow six vegas 2. It's totally lag free on Live, but usually laggy on the PSN (still playable and fun, just lower quality.)

There are probably a couple other examples. But generally, the quality is equal.

squidboy007

@Mister_Jack: He's the gaming equivalent to a film writer/director. He comes up with an idea/vision and is responsible for it turning out the way he envisioned it.

Not every one simply falls into the category of programmer or artist.

Spenze

@X2X: So, the developer isn't lazy, the hardware is a problem, right?

Instead of looking at MGO (which, by the way, works like it should and is extremely fun after the annoying sign up process) why don't you look at every single other game you can play online on a ps3? It works like it should, I don't know why people bash the PSN so much.

squidboy007

@Xuchilbara: pretty sure those PS# "features" are yet to be seen in action with thousands of people playing them online. if they dont crash and burn then its superior, however if it fails and its a lag fest well then hey at least they try. right?

Milkzhakes

@sendmail: Really? On top of the Live fee?

FP_slomo788

@X2X: What about 8 player co-op or the 64 player online for Resistance 2?

Pretty sure those have yet to be done on the amazing LIVE system.

Xuchilbara

"Let's hear what fable Molyneux has to spin"

I see what you did there.

thanatos_

@squidboy007: What do you mean more stable? PSN has dedicated servers on almost every game. Also, the cheapest 360 is now $200 :p

FP_slomo788

What's with all the comparisons lately? Cliffy B, Peter Molyneux and Peter Moore. Great! Who's next inline...Are these professionals getting paid to bash other products when they are getting ready to release something? Or maybe, they are looking for attention/publicity for their new games? Makes me wonder, hmmmmmm.

Ghostm

@X2X: MGO is a pretty extreme case. Not all PS3 games are that bad online.

Mister_Jack

@Mister_Jack: Yeah, wouldn't that be the life. We can only dream......

RET_Ghost

I'm curious to know what Fable II is doing that can't be done on the PS3. Both can do anything related to online gaming/material it just depends on the developer, console spec's and what Microsoft or Sony will allow. At this point it seems the PS3 will surpass the 360 in a year or so with what can be done online. But of course by then I expect to see a new Xbox being release/shown, hopefully by 2010.

SirFenwick

@kuicksilver16: Wow, that's weird 'cause I think of him as the black Gordon Freeman. But radioactiver...

xot

"I um and ah because"

why is this so amazing

UCHU

I like this guy. I'm somewhat of a Playstation fanboy, but even I agree that LIVE is much better than the PS online.

Thrazor

@squidboy007:
A developer would have to build all the infrastructure to do on PSN that which is availible by default to the XBOX. Refer to MGO Online's sucktitude.

X2X

@RET_Ghost: Lucky bastard. I wish I had my face on kotaku so people could comment on how much of a fag I am using poorly typed English.

Mister_Jack

@dalejrfanfreak: I know, right?

squidboy007

If your buddy wants to join your game you each have to pay 800 MS points, only on live.

sendmail

@Mister_Jack: He gets his face on Kotaku? :P

RET_Ghost

This guy does know that Resistance 2 will have 8 player co-op right?

dalejrfanfreak

@RET_Ghost: Well he keeps doing it, so there must be some kind of gratification to overseeing the project.

Mister_Jack

What exactly is the ps3 missing that makes it insufficient for co-op? The only major difference I ever notice between Live and the PSN (besides pricing) is that certain games (and very few, for that matter) are more stable on Live.
I've always thought of both consoles as equal. They have minor differences, but they balance out.
That being said...I could really use a 360 for this game. I hope it comes out on PC at some point.

squidboy007

@Mister_Jack: Actually its the job that most people hate.

RET_Ghost

I like to think of him as a white Morgan Freeman. But creepier...

kuicksilver16

@SirFenwick: Lol, specially since he said "I don't get involved so much with shaders and the actual 3D design"

Xuchilbara

"I don't get involved so much with shaders and the actual 3D design"

That is where I realized... I could give a shit less what this man thinks then :)

Xuchilbara

@RET_Ghost: Shoot, I'd like that job.

Mister_Jack

To bad he has no idea on how the PS3 is structured. So yeah...

SirFenwick

Ah, Mr. Molyneux, I love that you say what's on your mind, no matter how much the corporate big-wigs wince.

armless-phelan

@Mister_Jack: I think he just oversees that overall direction of the game so that it reaches at least close to what he expected, still a pretty important job.

RET_Ghost

Underexploited?, I think that there are some companies that exploiting the hell out of DLC. If he is only talking about co-op gameplay then, yeah I agree with that.

RET_Ghost

He doesn't do programming? What DOES he do?

Mister_Jack

You mean the co-op that isn't included on the disc.

Firemane

I like Molyneus hes cool

ZetaCrossfire

@Greenman: I was just online moments ago. Maybe your area is hiccuping after the upgrade?

zPhreak

@Xuchilbara: You must have missed where MM just said they came up with the idea for Portal.

zPhreak

@Thorn: Yeah I guess my sarcasm radar failed me on this one. Somehow I found that believable, although MS would just hit a new low with me... Happy to know it's not true though.

FP_slomo788

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): No, it's like free money. The only thing that might push them is if PSN makes some major improvements and makes live look terrible. But I have the feeling if PSN gets some major improvements they will start looking for free money as well.

Greenman

@FP_slomo788: Voice across all games even outside of games. Able to take profile to multiple 360's and play all your games you've bought through XBL and also track stats across multiple consoles.

zPhreak

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): Damn, sorry to hear that... Yeah I know GameSpy hosted GTA4 for both consoles. I guess the dedicated servers is only for first-party games then. The more you know...

FP_slomo788

So... he sees the PS3 as play-doh and the 360 as legos?

I mean, the PS3 has the potential for you to do so much more but with the chance of you screwing up and ending with a big turd, while the 360 has the ensured results of legos, but at the sacrifice of physical limitations (that while you could make something of your design, the limitations can still be seen by its... uh... square...ness).

GDW1017

@FP_slomo788: *hands you a book on sarcasm*

Thorn

Just wondering... I'm not bitching about paying $4.16/mo but does anyone think MS will ever make LIVE free?

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

The thing that makes this whole situation funny to me is that at the moment Xbox Live is down and I cannot connect. I don't know if it's an across the board problem or just my area, but it really puts a damper on how great the product is when you can't even freakin connect! I say good day.

Greenman

@FP_slomo788: PSN like LIVE have match-making servers that allow players to find each other but during the game, it's peer-to-peer communication that's generally used. This is just cheaper. GameSpy does host some of these match-making servers for example but the communication during each game is usually sent between consoles.

At least this is how it was explained to me by the GameSpy people when I went for a job interview their (I failed too D: )

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@Firemane: Actually it will be available at launch, they were just covering their bases just in case.

[www.gamefocus.ca]

TheExiledLeader

By the simple fact he is saying he isn't a good company man he screams even louder "MS lines my pockets so I am going to keep making comments til people stop listening". I wonder if this guy just likes hearing his own voice?

TheNexusRebound

You know I like Peter Molyneaux but if only he would just...... Speak out, that would be great.

IndianaBones11

Will this guy ever shut the hell up? Can I just say that his games suck as well? Yeah, I said it.

skadebo

@ BASHCRAFT.....

GJ on starting a HUGE flamewar ;) lol <3 U.

Xuchilbara

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): The dedicated servers part? I'm not joking at all. Unless it's only first-party games I'm positive that's actually one of the strongest points of PSN.

@squidboy007: Well, Rainbow Six and PS3 in general... That's why I said "most." I know Bad Company can also get pretty shitty on PS3. And TF2. But in general PS3 games are smooth online.

FP_slomo788

@bigdude209: Lol, cause they dont have to bash the other system to try and get people to notice their products.

PS3 devs seem a lot more respectable IMO.

Xuchilbara

@dalejrfanfreak: ...and they all bend at the hip. Not sneezing on 8 player co-op or on 60 player multi-player but they made some serious trade-offs for that. To their credit though, most people will never notice which is excellent design.

okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under)

@bigdude209: "compared to" I mean

bigdude209

Okay, is it just me or do the guys at Media Molecule, Insomniac, and Naughty Dog more sensible in their comments compared Microsoft's devs?

bigdude209

@FP_slomo788: like i said we cant really jump to conclusions on the flawless play but like i said lets wait and see how its going to handle thousands of gamers logged in all at once. im not saying it cant be done, cause it can very well be done. in other words, lets wait and see till the game is officially out and see what its made of.

Milkzhakes

He makes a fair point, and I deffinetly respect him for speaking his mind.

It's obvious, and I think he knows it himself as well, that the PSN is Sony;'s new born child, they're just beginning to nurture it, little by little it's growing, and becoming more stable, with some really great content.

Sony should take a lot of pride in their PSN, like Microsoft should with LIVE, they're both fantastic services, and I feel that Sony have done a really great job with the PSN, especially considering the time differences, LIVE is what, 7 years old now? I'm not entirely sure, so take that with a grain of salt, compared to the PSN's 2/3 years.

Sony have had a lot of ups and downs with their online service since it's birth, but I really get the feeling they're pouring everything they have into it, to make it what they dreamed it to become, well done Sony, and well done Microsoft, both great services, and I can't wait to see them grow along side each other.

I bet you were expecting me to mention the LIVE annual fee, that doesn't bother me, I don't see why people whine about it, I mean seriously, what's £40, and for an entire year, you wouldn't even notice that out of your pocket.

Strife56

So, to sum it up

"PS3 looks hard to develop for, so I won't do it."

The End.

GrandfatherParadox

@Mister_Jack:

I think it's fairly obvious that he shills for Microsoft.

giroml

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): I don't think robust is the proper word for what you are trying to relay. Maybe you are looking for "More structured"

Aex

Crazy Eyes.

gessyca

@zPhreak: Damn, I just checked again and I still pass all tests except for Live. Ungghhhh, thanks for the update though. Anyone else in Southern CA with this problem?

Greenman

@zPhreak: Live definitely has stronger community features (for now at least), but in terms of online gaming they are pretty even I think. Each has their pros and their cons (mods aren't allowed on Live and I have yet to see extensive user-generated content like in LBP. Also, 8-player co-op in Resistance 2...). Also, you can communicate in-game now on PSN, although it's just text-chat. You can "take" your profile to any other PS3 and redownload any game you've purchased up to 5 times- except Warhawk I think. And of course, PSN is free, which to me is a plus.

FP_slomo788

@okenny :) ...building bridges (to hide under): What incentive do they have to do such. The Pc People were able to pull it off, but that was mainly because they knew online gaming was always free. Most of the console crowd probably never played pc gaming as a serious pastime and thus didn't know. And when its the price that it is most of them don't care and thus will willing pay. Thus meaning MS would be stupid not to charge them if they could get away with it.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

@GDW1017: This won't help anyone with their decisions if they were like me. Some of my Play-doh always wound up drying out or I would make something multicolored and be pissed when I couldn't get the colors back apart. Legos were awesome until you lost a piece or two and couldn't complete your freakin spaceship, or your dog would chew on pieces and they be all stupid with bitemarks and whatnot. This race is too close to call.

Greenman

@Greenman: your not unlucky..Just tried to go back on and its down now....what did you do man..lol.

Snukadaman_

Everything that XBL has done for online gaming, PSN has not only matched but exceeded in areas.

Right now, there isn't one thing XBL has over PSN for online gaming, nothing. Someone name one thing that XBL has right now that improves online gaming that PSN doesnt have?

I can name something XBL doesn't have that already makes PSN superior for online gamers, dedicated server support.

While XBL generates almost 2 million a day in just Gold subscriptions, they have failed to provide an online service on par to what PC gamers have had for over 20 years.

XBL lags with just 8 people in a game while PSN can play with up to 40 no problem.

The PS3 and PSN can do Fable2 and make it even better. Theres not much difference between a FPS and an RPG because for one, theres a server that has to host the info and thats it.

Viet0ne

@Snukadaman_: Still keep gettin the Failed Xbox Live. In addition to this when I go to xbox.com and the support page it says:

"Xbox LIVE Service Status

Status:

Users will not be able to connect or log into Xbox LIVE. We are aware of the problem and working to resolve the issue.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your patience."

I also just tried logging into the xbox webpage and I keep getting and I keep getting an XBOX.com Page not found page. Bah!

Guess I'm just unlucky.

Greenman

I think the PS3 has the potential to be better then the 360. Certain aspects of it's hardware, as Mr. M says, is superior. And some of the 360's hardware is superior to the PS3's, like the additional 128mb of ram that it has. But then the PS3 has larger storage medium, every system has a hard drive, the whole cell thing, and several integrated features that 360 needs to be purchased separately.

One thing I despise about the 360, is the add-ons. But it's also what I like most. I can buy a bottom tier 200$ arcade machine, and what if that's all I want? I don't have an internet connection, I just want local game playing, I have the option.

If I just want a PS3 that plays just games, I'm out of luck. Because I'm required to get the blu-ray player, the wireless, the gigabit ethernet, the HDMI, and the wireless controllers. All those things are great if you've got the application for them, but what if your router isn't gigabit? What if you don't have an HDTV? Or Wireless internet? I'm forced those features anyways, which seems bad, but in the long run it's nice, because all of those features are the way of the future.

But I'm pretty sure that not everybody is so gung-ho on HD, and I'm willing to bet that those same people, are the people with Wiis, and for 50$ cheaper? Why not a 360, with the option to later on, if I get an HDTV or a fancy wireless router, to upgrade and get that? But that's just my opinion of what I think that the people want. Me, I enjoy my 360 in all of it's HDMI, wireless controller goodness. It's so close to my router, I don't need the expensive wireless adapter, and don't have to worry about if its 10$ or 100$.

Sony sorta shot themselves in the foot with requiring all these fancy pants features, I mean they're nice, but they'll probably never sell it at a profit if they dropped it to even 300$, I'm not even sure if they're making a profit on them now. MS was able to sell their new format in a separate box, and because of it, the core system was cheaper to produce. If I didn't have an HDTV and didn't want to play HD-DVDs, I wasn't forced to pay for it with the system.

tl;dr version: Add-on features separate keep the 360's price down.

But, that's just my two cents.

Talleh

Still amuses me how easy it is for game developers to troll the internet gaming community.

MasterNinja

@Greenman: Way to take a decent analogy and make it... really... weird. O.o

Thorn

@FP_slomo788: Heh. They can be bad, but very thankfully they've not sunk that low. Yet. ^_^

Thorn

There's a huge difference between an FPS co-op and an Action RPG co-op.

Terance! - In Before What My Message Says

@Greenman: long beach and dl'd the rockband export...no problems.

Snukadaman_

It's clear that he's referring to the feature in Fable to where all of your friends (on your friends list) appear as orbs in your world while you play. There must be specific APIs in Live that allow this to be possible.

Any programmers here should just consider how difficult that would be to pull off. You can't just poll the server for each of your friends locations and still move the orbs in realtime. You can't use fake "parties" because each player has a different combination of friends.

And it has nothing to do with genres and everything to do with the amount (and complexity in this case) of data being transferred around in "real" time.

PreachingLlama

@Viet0ne: cross-game chat. i can chat with my friend who's doing something completely different while i'm playing. that for me is LIVE. and the new dashboard update will now include multiple people chatting at once.

that's one. a huge one.

MysteriousStranger

@mal_tez92: the players show up as orbs floating in your world and if you go up to one, you can invite them and they pop in imediately in your world if they accept.

there's no middle to this. it's straight forward. no lobbies.

dunno how this is done, but the devs did.

MysteriousStranger

@FP_slomo788: up to 5 times? o and movies will only be able to DL just once on the psn. that's a lot less than indefinate amount of dls.

and dont think the LIVE is stagnant in their development while the PSN tries to catch up. the new dashboard now allows multiple people to chat at once independent of what they're doing which is a major plus

MysteriousStranger

@SirFenwick: so i guess you do? the ps3 isn't this mystical box of technology, it's just techonology

MysteriousStranger

@Viet0ne: This is the most inaccurate thing anyone has ever written on the internet.

dowingba

@Snukadaman_: Its back its back! Maybe this problem is like an STD...im clean now though...better get that thing checked.

Greenman

@mal_tez92: I once had just a PS3, but now that I've experiences LIVE as well, there's something about it that makes online play so much smoother and enjoyable. It's integrated better, it feels like a core part of the experience, rather than PSN which still feels a tad cumbersome with some games.

Iarwain

Finally someone who isn't bullshitting.

And this is what I've been saying since before the systems were even out. Whether or not one system or the other is "better" in some specific hardware area is irrelevant. No two systems have ever been this close in horsepower and the output of the games is going to be indiscernible between them. Of course, this has already been proven by multiplatform games that look more identical than any games have ever looked on any two systems ever in the history of video games.

dowingba

@Viet0ne: o and the PSN isn't lag free btw. CoD4 is an example. They don't use the dedicated servers. so that pretty much debunked your "every psn game has dedicated servers" argument. also choose a more reasonable, rational number when you want to smear the competition for no reason other than to bolster your own.

MysteriousStranger

Fission mailed.

masterbanana

@ZetaCrossfire: 4 shaw, legend

HunterToOkie

@Viet0ne:

Id have to disagree, with just about everythign.

1.) xbl does everythign better than the PSN, most importantly it works. It allows for a very diverse collection of information to be obtained at very littel expense and it offers a standard experience across all games.

2.) dedicated server support is offered in some xbl games, additionally its not all that great on the PSN, infact if anything id say it causes more problems than it does help with them. I cant even connect to a server on the PSN with an open NAT because of their screwed up system.

3.) PC gamers dont have a superior experience, I hate navigating through mountains of servers looking for the one I like, rather, its much more convinient and simple for me to just click and go. Additionally, I hate user mods as 99% of them are useless and having to search through them is annoying.

4.) XBL may lag at times, but for me atleast it works. I have a 100MB up/down open nat connection(Im a former network engineer) and yet I lag insanely on all PSN titles, infact half the time I cant even log into the store let alone the game. Then I finally get into a game and it kills my PS3(see MGS online, which is an abomination online I might add)

Overall, Ive had nothign but bad luck with the PSN. It doesnt offer universal chat, trophys are rubbish as most games dont support them, half the time it doesnt work, and I lag out of nearly every match due to poor matchmaking. Id like to say its catching up, which it is, but until I can play even 1 stable match I just cant see any reason to like it aside from it being free.

RuneX21

@Milkzhakes: the only game ive ever experienced lag issues is UT3, everything else i've never had a problem COD4, RFoM, Warhawk, MGO, PSN titles, ect. . . they all work well.

@X2X: MGO's stupid sign in server process was the developers decision; they could have used the PSN's dedicated servers but opted to have their own. . . probably so they could charge you for those extra characters too.

ButterToast

what, pretell, can you only do on the 360 LIVE, that isn't possible on PSN? i mean, im not saying that the LIVE service isn't currently better than PSN, because clearly its got its shit worked out better, but i think in general, you can do all the same things. as a designer, i don't think live is a huge springboard for developers in a way that PSN isn't.

maybe i'm wrong, i just don't see it.

as far as... Molyneux's games becoming multi-platform, yeah, i'd like to see it. but i won't hold my breath.

joeloliol

@PreachingLlama: Exactly. This is just not possible at all on PSN currently, and thats what he's talking about. PSN has come a long way in a short ammount of time, although to be fair they have learned a lot from LIVE and didn't have to do as much innovation as Microsoft did at first. Now if only MS would allow user mods/content and give developers more control over what they publish on LIVE, and it'd be near perfect for a console service.

Araym

@RET_Ghost: I'm sure he meant gameplay-wise. Like sports games using actual real world data and bringing it into the game in real time. Stuff like that is awesome.

NoBullet

@Viet0ne: So far, Microsoft seems to have better 3rd-party support over both Sony and Nintendo for Xbox Live. I'm also starting to get surprised at how some of these Xbox Live games are looking. Also, it's easier to get into contact with Microsoft about submitting a game for their downloadable service.

Shin-san

@GDW1017: Wow, I've never seen it put that way. That's a very creative analogy.

dgonchild

@MysteriousStranger: what he said.

even as a PSfanboy you should be able to recognize that. we should go complain to Sony about this so they'll fix the problem faster, or maybe they'll fix it by the time home is released.

ButterToast

@Greenman: PSN is probably going to be supported by adds, which depending on how they do it might be fine or just annoying. my guess is though adds in home.

ButterToast

@zPhreak: link please. From what I understood they mentioned plans to work together on a portal like game, not they actually came up with the idea. I could be wrong though, just trying to verify.

ButterToast

@Xiedo: Wait... I just remembered Dude Huge and his recent blabbering.

Xiedo

@bigdude209: Who else besides Molyneux does this? It's a Molyneux thing.

Granted, Molyneux is going overboard. This must be the fourth or fifth comment since last week and as far I recall they've all been inane.

Also, granted, blog see cheap fuel for flamewar? Blog post!

Xiedo

well i agree but. The psn is free

Dorikasu

@ButterToast:
Yup, which I'd prefer to a monthly fee anyday. As long as they aren't ads advertising tuna or something.

fadecy

Yeah he loves live because his company probably gets a cut of the live fees everytime somebody plays his game online.

fadecy

@Xiedo: Lol, I was gonna bring that up, nice catch ;)

Xuchilbara

@Xuchilbara: Well, he doesn't have to, so why should he. He's the sutdio boss, he doesn't write code himself anymore. Do you think Cliffy B designs his own levels for Gears?

little_dragon

@fadecy: I for one happen to like tuna and find that remark insensitive. *slaps with glove*

Greenman

@Ghostm:

I agree. I find it highly coincidental that these MS stables are saying how the two systems are technologically equal, etc, at this exact point in time.

Caowyth

Well I don't understand what he sees as being the OVERALL weakness of PSN. I'm lead to think that he only favours a platform where he knows he can fully maximise the additional sale of DLC, and that IMO doesnt make Live any better than PSN.

Insomniac are about to do 8 Player Co-op, me thinks that at some level Molyneux envies that, most devs would, but the big Green machine would never let him express that opinion. Instead he ( and MS) continually remind us that the Xbox360 is better than the PS3 because of Live!

Hmm... think for yourself!

Dragnipur

@MysteriousStranger: Nail, meet head. The sweet thing about Live is how well the system is integrated into everything. I could be playing some Dead Rising whilst talking to a friend who's playing Gears of War, and if he invites me to his game for some co-op, I can just accept, plop in the Gears disc, wait a bit and we'll be playing together in no-time.

Tieowbeijas

@Talleh: Just one little nitpick, they have the same total amount of RAM, 512mb. :)
Difference is that on the PS3 it's split up 50/50 between graphics memory/system memory, whilst the 360 uses some unified architecture that allows dev's to use 350mb for graphics if they need, or 350 for system if that's needed.
Otherwise, I agree, the 360 has loads of expensive add-ons. Here they haven't even had a price drop on the wireless adapter, so it's still more expensive than a game. Fun thing though is that at the place I buy my games, the 360 pro is cheaper than the Wii. Not by much, but it's just so weird.

Tieowbeijas

@Mister_Jack: Your an fag.

Wish...granted!

ThursdayNext

Oh and do I have to bring out this argument again? For anyone saying "but the PSN is free!"

360 = $200
PS3 = $400

Live = $50/year
4 years of Live = $200

A 360 with 4 years of Live = $400
A PS3 = $400

And that's not including the awesome deals you can get online for the Live cards. So...

Live = $25/year
8 years of Live = $200

A 360 with 8 years of Live (you know, way longer than this generation is even going to be) = $400
A PS3 = $400

So anyway, the "PSN is free" argument doesn't hold much water.

dowingba

"the thing I love about the 360 more than anything is nothing to do with the hardware, it's all to do with LIVE. LIVE is still underexploited for a game mechanic"

This from the dude whose game still doesn't have online co-op. @___@

endekks

@dowingba: Oh please, 80% of people know that you can prove anything with statistics.

360 Without a harddrive = 200
360 120GB Harddrive = 140
1 year of LIVE = 50

which is 390 compared to 400 for PSN for one year online.

So in this model the Xbox with LIVE is only better value for the first year. After that the pendulum swings in PS3's favour. I've been kind and not included the extra $80 for a wireless adapter. Otherwise 360 would be screwed in the first year.

I also didn't bring up the fact that PSN allows downloads of full games due a lack of ludicrous size limits imposed by MS...until now.

ThursdayNext

@FP_slomo788: GameSpy only hosted the PS3 servers on GTAIV.

Also, XBL and PSN both use dedicated and P2P servers. It just depends on the game.

mind in rewind

@Dragnipur:
I don't think DLC prices are a factor.PSN would be favorable as the maker of the game he could set his price(you can do that on PSN)

I still don't see the advantage though.8 player drop in/drop out co-op is nice though.I'm guessing maybe he's talking about the effects a player can make on the world inside the co-op space,but it doesn't seem so different as what's been done before.I'm anxious to play it and see though.

enewtabie(Future LittleBigPlanet Master Creationist)

@ThursdayNext: XBL has always allowed d/l of full games, so I dont know where you pulled that amazing piece of info from (I could take a guess...).

The only limit imposed was a size limit for Arcade games, which has since been lifted twice. This has never affected any full games though.

Some people will twist anything to back up their "argument"...

Shod

@ThursdayNext:
The limit still exists at 350mb.Certain developers can get around it though.

enewtabie(Future LittleBigPlanet Master Creationist)

@Araym: There are plenty of games on the 360 that allow you to share user created content.

The only snag is that the 360 network is closed, so the content can only be created and shared between consoles. You cant produce a mod on your PC for example, and up it to your 360 to share.

So this whole "MS wont allow user created content sharing" isnt as black and white as people make it out to be.

Shod

Strange how exclusive games could only be done on that platform isn't it? Luckily,they pick the right platform or it just couldn't be done.They should go pick the Lotto numbers also.I know that Moly,Dude and even Kojima have to push their products,but the fact that a certain game could only be done on that platform just isn't realistic.

enewtabie(Future LittleBigPlanet Master Creationist)

@ThursdayNext: Ah for fuck sakes.

The PSN/XBLA size limits have nothing to do with this argument. At all.

You don't need a HDD for the 360 to play online. And even if you did, why the hell would you use the 120gb instead of the 20gb?

But whatever. Believe what you want. The PSN is as good as XBL. Except for the people who actually play games online on both consoles all agree that XBL is a whole lot better, and anyone with basic math skills realizes that the incredibly cheap price isn't a factor. In fact, you could say the "price" of XBL is a factor in the 360's favour, because if you don't want to play games online, you don't even need to pay it if you don't want, which makes the system cheaper!

And you obviously don't even have a 360 or use it online if you didn't realize that you can download games and do everything else without even paying for a Live account. The only thing that requires money is actually playing multiplayer matches against people online.

dowingba

@dalejrfanfreak: apparently not...

휘성

@endekks: But yet, it does.

mind in rewind

@Shod:
I think he means you can't download full retail games on Xbox live like PSN. (Burnout Paradise,NFL Head coach,Socom,Warhawk,etc)
You can download the original Xbox games.

enewtabie(Future LittleBigPlanet Master Creationist)

@FP_slomo788: He's speaking as a gamer who hates on everything. I could never play games with him , seems like he would turn around and hate a game the moment he lost after being all about it.

Both controllers are good , they both work. They both make the character move about the screen. I'm set.

@LittleBigPlaneteer: He would have to learn how to spell his own name first before hand.

휘성

Obviously none of you have played BF: BAD COMPANY online for the PS3. R2 and MAG ( if it gets published ) will shut this whole debate up.

휘성

I'm kinda on the fence , does anyone really care?

You like Gaming , You like Shiney Games , and you like co-op . Pay for it , enjoy it and deal with it.

When did gamers get so hung up on numbers.

If you pay for the sub and the extras to get said internet working without being wired + another controller so you are not buy yourself. That's 440.00.

Honestly .... please let the "you got my psn in my live , I see what you did there" debate rest. The price argument is old , outdated and reeks of console fanboyism.

휘성

Everytime I hear about what a console can't do. I just think to myself "Developers are getting lazy and they pretty much don't try , so they make up silly excuses to cover up what they didn't feel like doing".

휘성

I realize that in the internet world words are basically free, but maybe sometimes kotaku should actually think about not running absolutely anything that is said by anyone.

The proper headline for this article should be "Man who claims to know nothing about the technical specs of two systems comments on the technical specs of two systems"

If you're willing to run it, I could get my Uncle Jack to speak on the differences between the three latest consoles - he likes tractors!

phloog

@enewtabie(Future LittleBigPlanet Master Creationist): exactly )as I look over on the wall of my local Gamestop and see CoD4....on DS)

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

There are still a lot of developers who claim that they still have problems developing for the PS3. It's definitely not a problem for the in-house developers (they can't afford for it to be, plus they have the privelege of working on the PS3 exclusively) but it's still an issue for those who led off this generation on the 360. This is why Namco started a team that focuses specifically on PS3. As for CliffyB, he made an honest remark. He thinks the PS3 hardware is great, but he hates the controller. I share the same feelings, so I'm pretty sure Cliff Blezinski was being completely honest when he talked about this. Molyneux is right about LIVE being superior to PSN. I have a feeling that in the case of Resitance 2,Insomniac is getting special treatment to make sure it works better online. In LIVE's case, though, Microsoft tries to have the service work equally well with everyone's games. This is why Valve's stance on the matter is that PSN has bandwidth issues. Microsoft has been going out of their way to give the developers what they want, but if Sony starts doing things the same way, I don't see LIVE being a major advantage anymore. Microsoft sees this possibility too, and that's why they've secured Netflix over XBOX Live as an added bonus to choosing XBOX 360 over PS3. They will have to stay on their toes, since SONY can easily one-up them by spending just a few more resources on improving their services. Still, as for me, I'm an XBOX 360 guy just because I can't aford to buy every console yet. PS3 is definitely in my plans, though, especially for Resistance 2 and LBP.

Sylar

Live offers cross-game chat and all features of Live are standard for every game.

PSN's features are free but the aren't standard for every game as it's left to the developer to add features themselves.

Live's update offers group chat across games - PSN offered group chat since launch but it's not in-game only from the XMB.

We can go back and forth with this all day. The point is Live IS a better service than PSN. What I don't agree with is this notion that PSN is terrible. It's not. It's just not better than Live. Wii's online service is terrible. It is true though that I have yet to see any game on Live feature 40 player online battles with little to no lag. I have yet to see any XBLA game feature 32 player battles and look as good as Warhawk. I still have yet to see any XBLA game look and run as good as Wipeout HD and still offer 8 player online. You can't get Burnout Paradise as a downloadable game in XBL Marketplace or any other current gen full retail release.

Still have yet to see anyone anywhere explain what is it about Live that makes Fable II's online so that it couldn't be done on PSN/PS3. To be fair, I still have yet to see anyone explain what is it about MGS4 that makes it impossible to do on 360? I wouldn't want to play that on 360 but I'm just sayin...

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Oh Molyneux... sigh. Is it not time to leave Lionhead and start a new development studio? And make a new Syndicate dang nabbit!!!

LastNinja

@dowingba: but I think the size limitations is a good point. It determines what types of games you can and can't get on XBLA. MS still doesn't have any online only (XBLA) answer for Warhawk, Wipeout, GT5 or Socom. These are games that could be full retail releases. It's a content/quality concern. Robust gaming offered on PSN with no Live equivalent.

Sure, a gamer could buy a $199 360 but we all know that's a ripoff when it's all said and done. If someone picks up a game and decides at any point that they want to play with their friends online. They're screwed if the games has DLC that their friends have. Now they have to pony up for a harddrive. Let's be realistic, buying a 20GB HDD for a console is stupid. It's just simply not big enough. So "cha-ching" tap that wallet for $150 120GB HDD purchase. Another 50 bones for a gold account and let's hope they don't need a wireless adapter. In order to get the "standard" Live experience of other 360 users, the $199 SKU isn't a deal at all. It's a gimped console. Stripped down. Shit, Even Wii has built in Wifi.

The irony of this argument is the same way Xbox fans will scream to the highest mountain that Live is better because it's standardized these same people can't see that the PS3 and 360 hardware is a great comparison to Live and PSN. PS3 hardware features are all standard more or less(laughable considering the amount of SKUs that have been released for both...I know) But in order to get the same experience from a 360 you have to buy a number of peripherals.

At the end of the day what difference does it make? 360 fans get their FableII (and pray it doesn't suck ass like the first one) and their emo Gears of WarII and PS3 fans get their LBP and their KZ2 (and pray it doesn't blow like the first one)

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: I'm on year 3 of using a 360 with a 20gb HDD, and I have plenty of space.

And, this argument is just getting more and more stupid. The price of Xbox Live Gold has nothing to do with whether or not you can download "full games" or whatever. And what's the biggest game on the PSN anyway? I know Jade Empire is something like 6gb.

dowingba

PM makes sense

LosDaddie

Make Dungeon Keeper 3 or Black & White 3 on all platforms then. *cry*

:(

Candlejack

@dowingba: of course it has nothing to do with...it has everything to do with the cost of getting the same experience as other 360 users that bought different SKUs. jeez, come on man, get with it!

If you're 3 years into using a 20GB HDD (which is actually less than 20GBs before you even cue your first download) then you must not be downloading much. My music on my PS3 drive takes up 10GBs alone. Movies and anime are another 50 or 60GBs GBs. UTIII mods and maps take up another 6GBs by itself.

Anyways, Jade Empire is a good example but that says nothing about XBLA games in comparison to what PSN offers. JE is an exception not the rule and the point remains, there are no answers or equivalents to the PSN games I mentioned on Live. there isn't.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@Milkzhakes: so we dont know about resistance2 yet, but what abt Warhawk? thats a living breathing example of solid largescale online play right there.

asTer0id

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Mainly because of the Blu-ray. The two systems are almost identical to each other. Technology can only go so far, so how would one be steps ahead of the other?

macr0planet

@ZetaCrossfire: Me too. I'm actually starting to look forward to these articles.

SeraphX2

@axiomatic: Well and I have exactly 1 friend on Xbox Live that is not on PSN, and about 6-7 friends on PSN that aren't on Xbox Live and I mean FRIENDS that I know personally who are fortunate enough to afford these systems and games.

Does that interest anyone here? No. So, what's the point of bringing it up over and over again?

Candlejack

All you rabid fanboys aside... I play where all my friends are. Which is on XBOX LIVE.

Yeah I like my PS3 but the experience is worthless if my friends aren't there to play with.

When the PS3 catches up and my friends are all there, then you can call them equal. Until then the 360 has the PS3 by the huevos.

axiomatic

@axiomatic: My point was, pitting these consoles against eachother on such a dramatically personal basis ("where are my friends"), is hardly substantial.

Candlejack

@Candlejack: I hear ya. And that's awesome, I wish more of my friends would get a PS3 so we could play there too. Connecting with friends on the PS3 is still "clunky" compared to XBL though.

axiomatic

@TheExiledLeader: I hope you're right, because I was so incredibly pissed off when I'd heard about the patch.

Capt_Billy

@Mister_Jack:

He has the type of job most of us would want when we think about a game that we would like to make yet no programming knowhow. (I think)

Minus the fact that he has some knowhow.

But it sounds like a sweet job to me. Ive got some sweet ideas brewing (and not the ones I posted on TXB while drunk(even though they would end up being sweet, given the obvious evolution that would occur))

Hell, ide just like to throw my 2 cents at someone, with influence, that would listen.
Like, being able to sew magnetic plates inside your jacket so you can use them to attatch guns, and other weapons. Think Alone in the Dark; but much more inventive (use whatever, so long as it works. Magnetic plates are awesome, though.)

SadSadSamus

@Firemane:

If you have the internet to play it online, I see no problem.

If you don't, and it's ofline(is it?), aswell, that's a more valid point. However, that fraction will get smaller and smaller as time goes on.

SadSadSamus

@Firemane:

Owned! :) I like it!

Albi4ever

@Xuchilbara:

I think everone here feels the same about your opinion.

@little_dragon:

You know he has a big say. It has to be awesome, for Dude Huge (I love that, way better then Cliffy B).
If Dude Huge thinks it's not awesome. Dude Huge will play overlord and tell 'em to rip it.

The Dude is master and commander over that ship.
Huge is the influence of Dude Huge.

SadSadSamus

@squidboy007: I'm willing to bet that that has nothing to do with the PSN I bet its more to do with the fact that the PS3 comes with wifi and I think this notion that PSN is somehow inferior is BS and a placebo effect since alot of games on live are P2P anyway yet you still see people saying how these games play better on live because you get what you pay for, yeah right I bet they're the same people who by Gold component cables.

Cue2

@squidboy007:
You cant look at xbox w/o xbox live, and ps3 w/o PSN. Now a days its not just about the hardware anymore, but its about the entire platform including both software and hardware. Anything that can connect to the internet can do what xbox live does, but clearly its much easier for the developer when the hardware and software tightly integrate all the features from day 1. PSNs problem is that it came late to the party and still doesnt work as well as xbox live.

X2X

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: I download plenty of stuff on my 20gb. But I keep my music on my iPod and use the optional iPod support. I'm sure even with that 8gb or so of music I'd still be in the clear though.

Why isn't Jade Empire an "equivalent" to what the PSN offers? Is anything on the PSN even as large as Jade Empire? There are other Xbox games as well, and they seem to range between 2-3gb on average, each.

And if I had all the stuff you have, on my 80gb PS3, I'd be well past my limit on that HDD already. I'm trying to conserve as much space on the PS3 as I can, since every game I've so much as touched for the system so far (I only just got the console a couple weeks ago) has had a mandatory install, two of which were over 4gb each.

dowingba

Ah, typical MS executive. At least this guy isn't as bad as Cliffy Bitch. But maybe someone who has actually worked with PS3 and 360 should compare them, no? I doubt he'll have much to complain about when Home hits this year. But yea, right now live is superior.

EldaDarnoldo

@UCHU: You know complete BS is going to follow when somebody starts a sentence like that.

Cue2

And this is coming from a pathology enthusiast, lol.

KREEPYKRAWLLY

@RuneX21: I think you have PS3 network problem that is not related to the PSN.

I say this as a network engineer myself, and I have 40+ friends on my PSN buddy list, and none of them have mentioned PSN Store network problems.
Bring your PS3 to a friends house and hook it up to a wired ethernet connection and see if that helps. If it doesn't, i'd say something is wrong with your PS3.

challen

@Xuchilbara:

If Bill Gates had a sense of humor he'd intervene and do that.

Turns on flashing three red lights, and the default background is "XBOX HUEG"

tzaketh

Well Pete I wouldn't mind buying if you made it happen. How is PSN less developed compared to Live. I don't believe that at all. Amount of content yeah Live comes out on top. Quality of content I go w/ PSN. The ability to buy full games like Socom, Burnout, Warhawk etc. is more valuable than an endless amount of overpriced arcade titles.

Barf#1

I mean, be honest... if you ARE impressed with the system, and you're NOT exclusive... why WOULDN'T you give into curiosity and try it... unless you were being a good company man?

Enigma_20XX

"What I would say, and this is not just me being the good company man, I'd say the thing I love about the 360 more than anything is nothing to do with the hardware, it's all to do with LIVE. LIVE is still underexploited for a game mechanic. Some of the stuff in Fable II we're doing with co-op is only possible because of the way that LIVE is structured. I love playing around with that stuff as a designer. Whereas PS3 doesn't seem to be quite so mature on that side. They haven't got quite the same infrastructure and service but, you know, yeah, I'd love to get games on every platform."

Spoken like a true company man...

Enigma_20XX

I respect this he isn't putting the PS3 down that is how you can tell he is cool. he is just stating his opinion, I have to Agree Live is better than the PSN but that is why you have to pay $50 a year, but I believe the PS3 will have better graphics once developers crack the system over and start overhauling the Cell Processor.

Assassin_Kensei

@Xuchilbara:

..So essentially, you'd always prefer a neat tech demo over any actual game design.

Okay.

NightsirK