@ridleysaria: This generation it's all about "Family-friendly".

verrius

@everybest: *even = enough

everybest

@adocious: well that dude isn't getting on nintendo. he is just stating the facts of the demographics. Statically speaking young boys boy the DS the most.

He is just stating how he views the graph. he didn't say the DSI is not going to be successful. so i dont see your point of stating sony facts.

blackpanther25

@Final: By that account, neither is Microsoft or Sony -- their consoles are capable of doing much more than gaming. Besides, since when was appealing to a broad user base such a bad idea? I want the gaming industry to prosper, even if systems get multimedia functionality and are no longer considered "pure".

YHWHMystic

@FP_slomo788:
I read Koller's comment as "Nintendo's demo is still 12 year-olds" whereas that isn't the case at all. It was a stupid comment and proves to me that Sony has this mindset of "must...appeal....hardcore....gamer...first". Sony never had to drop this mindset because the PS2 sold like hotcakes, so they could have gems weeded out of the miles of crap. The fact that they have done nothing as a company to improve their demographic proves to me that Sony is unwilling to evolve from the last generation. While Nintendo is now seeing it's miles of crap on both DS and Wii, the core games it has released have targeted much more than just the average gamer (Wii Sports, etc.), unlike games like Metal Gear Solid 4 which keep paying to the gamer.

I just found the comment to be completely stupid and unfounded, as Nintendo's vision of including everyone in its demographic worked for the most part.

Benjammn

@Kayonesoft: How did you glean any of that from the above quote?

Nightshift Nurse: Mile High Colonic

I thought I lost my DS a couple days ago and considered waiting for the DSi before getting a new one. But I thought about it and a tiny screen upgrade + a camera I'll never use isn't even to convince me to get it over a GBAless DS.

everybest

It still astounds me that we see this kind of puerile nonsense from professionals in large companies. Maybe it's the nature of gamers to be small-minded pricks, or maybe they're just pandering, but there is no other industry where this kind of nonsense is tolerated at really any level. If this industry were run by, you know, grown-ups, we'd get something like:

"We at Sony think the DSi is an interesting device, and we are happy to see that Nintendo has finally come to realize that a portable device can be used for more than just playing great games, but as an entire multimedia experience. The DSi, however, simply does not have the features of our PSP, such as UMD media playback, memory stick support and hi-fi video and audio playback, that complement its killer lineup of games and create the must-have system in this generation of portable consoles."

Instead, we get:

"LOLZ ONLY KIDZ PLAY DS! PWN'D."

How much do you make, again?

Fnor

I love how people are interpreting so much from so little. Keep it up folks, you're just showing your own bias and hate.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@FP_slomo788: the insult is actually him thinking that the DS caters to 12 year old gamers when most of it's titles rated E for everyone cater to well, EVERYONE.

when i sell something to a certain market and you say that i only sell to a select niche market that is insulting to my practice.

ruba-dub-dub

@ChibiKyKiske: Ouch! Really?

Earthslide

@Winterbringer: I like to think that I can be rather mature and I have a PSP

Hand_O_Death

Im probably gonna buy the thing. mostly because i do not own a DS lite. i own a regular DS. so my jump is higher yaay!

Mactheridon

Looks like Sony's upset over their "Buy it because we're Sony" marketing failure and Nintendo is winning with their "Buy it because we're Nintendo teehee" marketing success.

Kayonesoft

@FP_slomo788: I don't see anyone getting up in arms over the comment (which is clearly disparaging, by the way). I do see people calling it out as stupid and irrelevant. What do the game ratings for popular DS titles have to do with anything?

The PSP's "mature" image doesn't translate into sales because the "mature" market doesn't exist. Benjammn makes a very valid point. Nintendo understands that point and it's why they make money hand over fist.

adocious

@Earthslide: don't remind me... it's cause of those "little updates" that i can't play spore... and my macbook's only one year old!

:(

ChibiKyKiske

@BPMΣ:

Oh course it isn't. That's the Wii.

I joke of course, but the demographics sure do show the younger crowd as a big market.

DoomDoomDoom

Yeah, DSi has sort of jumped the shark. That it's region locked is the final straw.

Ironically, the one thing that would get me to buy it is if someone jailbreaks it so you can use that built in SD slot to put all your favorite games on at once and play Japanese games. Just like, say, the R4 of the DS Lite, which makes my DSL indispensable.

sarusa

@Bogulmon: But... where is the insult?

FP_slomo788

I can understand it for the preteens. Two birds one stone, I can see a parent being pushed over the edge with the camera in there. I could see my nephew spending more time goofing with the camera and friends pictures then actually playing games.

Nintendo seems to be backing off from the, "We're a pure gaming company." stance. Well played.

Final

@Bogulmon:
You sir, are a philosopher

Under 12? Seriously Sony? Has anyone actually confirmed that the both cameras use the 0.3 megapixel or just the inside one? I heard the outside was much higher...

Lazlo

I already have a DS , i highly doubt I will buy a DSi because it's all cosmetic updates minus the SD slot. Removing the GBA slot was extra pointless. Poor DS had hardly a run and Nintendo is already trying to kill it.

They should of used the inside of the DS case better like a larger screen all that serious amount of unused space is extra bad looking imo.

휘성

@Benjammn: How many DS games are rated over T? Within those, how many are popular?

I don't read one word in that comment that downplayed the DS's success, and I really don't see why you're getting up in arms over this.

FP_slomo788

PS2s print money. Shame everyone has one of those too, eh, Sony?

jinryuu

I'll probably hold off until they start making DSi only games I'm interested in.

EmeraldDragon

That's just about the stupidest comment I've ever seen from someone who's not an anonymous moron on the internet.

I'd be willing to bet real money that the DS has more owners in the the 40+ demographic than Sony have even sold PSP:s...

Khab

Whoever made this statement had to be on some kind of illegal substance. If sales are any indication, Nintendo isn't targeting a niche audience.

YHWHMystic

Sounds like Sony needs a business model that doesn't involve trying to tell its market who they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to like.

adocious

Hehe, he can insult the DS as much as he wants, but it's not gonna change the sales.

Bogulmon

@Noks415: Either that or he thinks there are an awful lot of 12 (and under) year olds out there.

And why would you ask the competitor's marketing department for a comment anyhow? It should be pretty obvious how that will turn out.

cabjf

Is Sony idiotic? You don't sell 81 million of any console and say you have one target audience. Considering DSes outnumber PSPs 2-to-1 and PS3s almost 6-to-1, you have to wonder how Sony approaches their thinking of a target audience. What's larger: every single hardcore gamer or everybody? You decide, Sony, and companies will continue to tread on your corpse.

Benjammn

Do I think asking questions and answering them right away is obnoxious? Yes, I do. Does that mean I'm going to avoid doing it myself? No, it doesn't. But does it really make a point? I stopped listening ages ago.

dunetiger reads kotaku, seems pleased

Tough love is what I say. Sadly the PSP doesn't print money.

smeloa

I just picked up a used DS with the GBA slot for 50$ and I'll probably get DSi when it comes.

NorthernAvengeR

Didn't Kotaku run a story on DS owner demographics just a couple days ago?

[kotaku.com]

emag

"Will it be a product that expands their user base [beyond] under 12? I'm not sure."

Oh, cute. Koller thinks noone above 12 buys the DS! Yeah, you're such a big and macho man now for saying the DS is for the kiddies!

BPMΣ

That is some tough love from Sony. Could some one please explain what they mean by this statement: "Will it be a product that expands their user base [beyond] under 12?". Come on Sony, just because the PSP hasn't had the breakthrough you expected gives you no reason to attack the competition.

smeloa

You're behind the times, Koller. Calling Nintendo products kiddy was LAST generation's smear tactic.

ridleysaria

Coming soon, PSP Slim Jr. It's just like the old PSP Slim, except the games are good.

Mister_Jack

Yea, because so many mature adults are buying PSP's right?

Winterbringer

"Uh...how can you expand a market that's already full?"

I'm guessing that's what he means, he probably doesn't want come out and say: "Nintendo has sold a DS to every person that can afford on this planet."

Noks415

It's just a little update ... Just like what the Macbooks go thru every now and then :)

Earthslide

Crap camera + no GBA slot = no sale to me. And I was actually considering buying a DS soon... It's a sexy looking device but I hate it when they remove features I want... I still have old GBA games knocking about that need LOVE!

Ungruntled

@Toasticus: Oops, meant to say: ... and the interviewee hesitantly says...

Toasticus

@fearing: I don't see the point of that. We are not talking about the psp we are talking about the DSi, unless nintendo is paying you for that comment.

i joke, but i don't see why people are huffing and puffing when they can bring in any analyst and that person would look at the graph and say the same thing.

blackpanther25

Such reactionary commenting. It seems like a pretty reasonable statement to me, except that the last sentence is strangely worded. Its awkwardness and the fact that it was edited with [beyond] is odd given the rest of the quote, and a bit suspicious. Gizmodo contacted the guy for comment in the first place, why not post his entire response instead of editing it? Are we getting an accurate representation of what the guy was trying to say?

Makes me wonder if it's the kind of schlock where an interviewer asks a developer what he would improve on if he were in charge of Franchise X, and the interviewer hesitantly says something like "well, I really love the game, but I think the combat could be tighter--" and the next day "Joe Developer HATES Franchise X!" is plastered over every gaming news site.

Toasticus

Anyone who thinks Koller is saying ONLY 12 year olds own the DS isn't very intelligent and from the looks of things there are a lot of unintellgent commenters here on Kotaku.

It's sad to see this :(

Do yourself a favor and research. Look at the average ages and question why Koller brought that up. He wasn't attacking Nintendo. It's amazing that people say he is spewing hate at Nintendo when he praised them for their success.

If you don't think what Koller mentioned is a concern to Nintendo themselves then you are not in touch with reality.

The internet, it's a beautiful place

LittleBigPlaneteer

@fearing: er, YOUNG boys, not YOUR boys... well maybe your boys too, I don't know about that.

fearing

@blackpanther25: Statistically speaking, your boys buy the PSP the most as well.

fearing

@surrealistgesture: You take your truth and get the hell out of here. This is the internet dammit, and we ain't interested!

dry-roasted-peanuts

@excel_excel: It's taking away sales from the DS , The one that's out now is perfectly fine. Why try and make it what a Phone can (and most of them) do? Taking out a GBA slot is the worst move imo. Now if they left that in , I'd buy one and trade in my DS.

I still think this is a uneeded hardware update.

휘성

@DoomDoomDoom: Yes, but that's true for video games in general.

fearing

@ShoppingCartHero: alas, what you say is true! We are on the internet!

excel_excel AWAY!!!!!

excel_excel

@YHWHMystic:

Tell me who represents the highest demographic of DS users in Japan?

I think so many people are inferring that this guy thinks ONLY 12 year olds buy it. Only an idiot would interpret what he said as that. He is saying that a good percentage of the DS user base averages out at 12 years old. Look at the data from this recent Kotaku article: [kotaku.com]

The highest came from 10-12 year old boys, the 3rd highest from 10-12 year girls. If you average it all out, I imagine the average demographic for the DS install base would fall in the range of 12-15.

Basically Koller is azking whether they can expand that average. I don't see that as an attack at all. It's the same comment about whether Sony can expand their install base to a younger crowd since the average PSP demographic is around 20-25.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@PhoenixAzure: Me! (and I'm 30)

fearing

@ridleysaria:

Except what do you think 80 percent of the Wii's install base is catered toward?

PhoenixAzure

@excel_excel: Take your sound logic elsewhere, mister!

ShoppingCartHero

@LittleBigPlaneteer: he's saying that the DS's user base consists of twelve year olds. What more is there to say? Its a bit stupid to insinuate that

excel_excel

So loads of twelve years olds are snapping up brain training? no. There not.

excel_excel

@Ungruntled: but...you could just get a DS lite no?

excel_excel

@휘성: Except there not trying to kill the DS, releasing a DS with a camera and SD slot is not trying to kill the DS

excel_excel

@LittleBigPlaneteer: As if I didn't already know?

YHWHMystic

answer to question? well i think it's because Nintendo knows that a lot of the people that owns a DS is not only adults but also kids younger 12. So now they are probably targeting people that love to edit music, pictures and take pictures and in the same time those who also enjoy to play games and all those new features.
Which i think is a plus. Everyone I know that has a DS wouldn't mind getting a DSi because they themselves those features for their own personal reasons. (me for example, take pictures of pretty girls while they think im playing something XD)

Sintonado

I'm getting a DSi if the downloadable games are worth it.. and the sales of Brain Age certainly show how much under 12yo like the DS.

CockroachMan

@LittleBigPlaneteer:
Bias? Hate? Nonsense, this is the Internet!

But seriously, it is the same as if Nintendo said 5 years ago, "PS2 owners only play JRPGS!!11!one!" The comment is devoid of sense and proves that there are Sony brass who still carry a mindset that doesn't evolve with the times. When your competitor outsells you 2-to-1, its time to actually start analyzing the demographics buying the DS and not speculate based on biased opinions.

Benjammn

No GBA slot = Major Fail, IMO

Chissu

@YHWHMystic:

Do research on what a demographic means and what averages are and get back to me.

LittleBigPlaneteer

He's not saying the DS doesn't sell to older people, he's saying there is really no reason to switch from DS Lite to DSi unless you don't have one or are younger. Think about it: adult usually have cell phones with higher res cameras; parental controls are nothing adults need; and region lock will be a turnoff to niche fans. Overall, only people who don't have a DS or people without cell phones seem to be the demo the DSi is looking for.

pd771

Region lock on DSi basically makes the DSi worthless.

Chalice

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I'm pretty sure the quote wasn't referring to twelve individual people.

YHWHMystic

@ridleysaria: Only it still applies THIS generation's smear.

Ouren

@sarusa:
It was confirmed that it is only region locked for the downloadable software and the internet browsers, for ds carts it is still universal.

surrealistgesture

@Nightshift Nurse: Mile High Colonic: "I already know that much of the DS' hardcore fanbase are at eachothers throats about the worth of the system given what's been lost and what's been gained."

Man thats confusing....oh I getcha....well I couldn't really care about the DSi to be honest. Publishers are hardly going to support the camera in games exclusively for the games because that would be ignoring a 120 million DS owning market

excel_excel

Everyone keeps talking about the stupid camera. Who really needs their DS to have a built in camera when literally everyone in the country already has a cell phone?

The real big improvement that the DSi has is the ability to download games. Now you'll be able to download classic VC games and play them on the go. I just hope there's a way to port the VC games you've already paid for on Wii to your DSi, instead of having to buy them again.

mrplow8

@LittleBigPlaneteer: heck look I think most of us realise that he didn't mean it that way. But its like saying what we already know, yes the DS has a huge market in under 12's. But they also have a large market in adults too. I can see why someone would easily misinterpet what Koller said to seem like he was saying only kids play DS.
Anyway I'll take the quote for what it seems to be...a little bit of flame bait

excel_excel

John Koller I'm in the PSP demographic and I'm not interested in your software but I own 31 DS games.

Kinburn

'Uh...how can you expand a market that's already full?'

You can do what nintendo has always done with new iterations of the same handheld, which is sell nearly the exact same product to the same people who bought the earlier version.

The cosmetic changes on the DSi are for the worse, in my opinion.

The camera looks like a giant black wart.

Why would anyone with a DSlite want an ugly DSlite instead?

They wouldn't.

Defoliantonthemoneytree

@blackpanther25: While that's true, it isn't accurate to say that because someone buys something the most that they are the only people who buy that thing. The DS sells well across the board, and the graphs don't really demonstrate an overwhelmingly pre-12 demographic. If I poll 3000 grocery shoppers that buy apples and discover that 1600 are female and 1400 are male, I can't categorize apples as needing to expand out of the females only niche.

Balius

Personally, I think the DSi will do well enough...but Nintendo isn't going to hit one out of the park with this revision. I can't imagine that serious critics of the PSP are going to regard the DSi with any less skepticism (especially since it offers less functionality), and I already know that much of the DS' hardcore fanbase are at eachothers throats about the worth of the system given what's been lost and what's been gained.

I do expect it do very well with tweens and teens who want an iPhone but don't have a chance in hell of actually convincing their parents to buy them one.

Nightshift Nurse: Mile High Colonic

@LittleBigPlaneteer: The quote never explicitly mentioned an average age. Can you blame us for misinterpreting such a vague statement? For all we know, the demographic chart posted on Kotaku could be inaccurate. How dare you call the majority of Kotaku users idiots. There is no "hatred" or "bias" -- only people poking fun at a toady's uninformed remark. As much as I dislike having to expound in detail, you leave me no choice. I'm well aware that the average gamer (according to statistics) is approximately thirty years of age. Nintendo wants to expand their audience beyond the traditional gaming crowd, and they do so by offering a DS unit with new functionality. Needless to say, the market for MP3 players and cameras is not geared towards adolescents.

YHWHMystic

@fearing: The average age of a gamer is 33.

mind in rewind

Well if you cant beat em, talk some semi-good stuff about em.

DontCrossMyanimals

i'm looking forward to the use of the camera. i hope devs take advantage of this additional feature

kw4k

@휘성: I wouldn't even call it a hardware update, more of a hardware rejig. The camera is brought in, in exchange for the GBA slot, and the SD slot can easily be brought out for the DS phat and lite in some form or another.

excel_excel

@excel_excel: Well it would be in direct competition with the iphone and like phones like hte android and blackberry... So yeah , that would be a bad move.

I love the new design though , I wish it had more GBA awareness , but if it's not intended for that market there is nothing I can do about it. Maybe they will allow legal downloads of games. Actually I would love that idea.

휘성

If it has WPA support, then it's a definite buy. Otherwise, it depends on the exclusive games. I'm sure there will be some Mario or Zelda close to day one to spur sales. Frankly what I'd love to see would be VC support for all games except for N64 (emulation would be a bit tough for the hardware.) Buy retro games and be able to play them on the go? I'm in.

Fuzzy Logic

I personally know at least 10 people who own a DS who are 30 and older. I know a couple of kids (15 and younger) who have one.

I know 2 people who have PSPs. One of them is myself. I play my DS more.

WordMan

Executives are trained in the art of the praise n' hate. I'd wager he knew full well how the comment would be taken.

Dear Sony:

I am 23 years old. There are 17 currently released games for the Nintendo DS that I don't own, but are on my to-buy list.

I am the target demographic for the PSP, I love the technological power and diversity of functions it puts in my hand. There are four games for the Sony PSP that I don't own, but are on my to-buy list.

Ettie

@FP_slomo788: Exactly..there wasn't one.

휘성

You gotta applaud Sony for having the cojones to still trash talk Nintendo as a "kiddie" company when they're losing to them on two fronts this generation and probably all target demos.

Erinaceus

@blackpanther25: don't get me wrong i have 4 DS lites (don't ask me why) but math is math. There is no other way to interpret it then saying boys from age 10-12 buy and play it the most

blackpanther25

Under 12? Come out from under your rock, John.

hagridore

@휘성: I agree that taking out the GBA slot is a bad idea, but the people that this is aimed at won't be using it to transfer pokemon over from the GBA games and play GBA games. I think taking the DS into the phone market though would be a bad idea!

excel_excel

@FP_slomo788:
A couple of the DS's most popular titles, the Brain Age series, are rated E, yet are played by more adults than children.

Ratings have nothing to do with the demographic. All it means is high its boob, blood, and bad words content is.

BPMΣ

@Ungruntled: ack I hate that feeling! Kind of like picking between a PS3 with Backwards compatibility and one that doesn't!

excel_excel

@excel_excel:
... Why did you just jump into a bottomless pit?

BPMΣ

@excel_excel: Yeah, but then I'd always be looking at the DSi and thinking "should I have... should I... oooohhhh did I make the wrong decision?"

Best just to not make any decision or my brain will explode.

Ungruntled

Will it be a product that expands their user base [beyond] under 12?

Showing just how jealous SOny is of the money printer.

Nevest356

@휘성: It's taking away from sales of...what it is? It's just a different model of the DS. Just like the DS Light is.

I can't see any reason to get one to replace my current DS, but someone who doesn't have one yet has the option to buy a DSi...at least until the DSLights all sell out, like the standard DS did.

Personally, though, I'd rather play my GBA games than take pictures. Unless there's some substantial reason to swap over, I'm not sold.

Balius

@Balius: I see what you are saying. there is relevance to your comment. I just dont see why people are going so deep into one little comment based on somebody's perception of the graph. Hell i thought he was gonna say the DSi is crap and it wont sell

blackpanther25

i was about to buy a DS but then i heard about the DSi and so now i might wait for this to come out

Unbreakable669

@Xaif: People don't keep their consoles or handhelds after they buy the next gen "upgrade". Or at least people without decent money...

Kensei

Sony still eggin' on the children for Nintendo crowd? Wow... At least Nintendo ain't doing the same with the metrosexuals.

Angryrider

@excel_excel:
This doesn't just affect GBA playback or GBA-DS data sharing... but some DS games, too.

Rumble Pak, Arkanoid paddle, Guitar Hero grip, Tony Hawk's Motion motion pak, etc...

Any game needing a Slot-2 accessory won't work on the DSi!

BPMΣ

@Hand_O_Death: yeah but how much do you use it? a hand-held is designed to be used much more than a console, since is purpose is mobile gaming... oh wait, the PSP breaks when you touch it... you probably don't bring it with you and have a sign "look, don't touch" hung over it, sorry.

Swizzler121

@Lazlo:
No, I'm fairly certain both cameras are 0.3MP. Nearly all English sites have used the Famitsu/Gemaga liveblogs as a source, and both only make mention of 300,000 pixels (0.3MP) as the camera resolution.

BPMΣ

@mind in rewind: Mean or median? Regardless, I would bet dollars to donuts that the DS has greater market penetration amongst adults (say, >18) than the PSP.

shimage

Whoooooo...them fightin' words...

NeVeRMoRe666

@jinryuu: I don't.

Shockadin

@Ungruntled: Then play them on your GBA? As I assume you have one, or an original DS, unless you like to buy games for consoles you don't own.

Xaif

Honestly, people still buy PSPs? I've never seen one of those for a long time. only kids and adults i see have DSs, adults usually buy one to entertain them for a long plane ride or two.

Shockadin

@nine07: PSP sells well, if the DS wasn't there people would consider it a high seller. People concentrate too much on how it compares to the top seller though rather than how profitable and successful it is in it's own right under the conditions (such as it being there first handheld like you said). It's selling well so no need to worry though. I hope PSP2 does have a new thing to offer though or I doubt I'll be very interested.

Llost

@pandafresh: Lets go with with cousins cos I easily could go for a PSP since I like RPG alot.

Llost

I don't think his comments were inflammatory at all.

And I find it hilarious that someone actually referred to the PSP's sales as crap. They sell 1 PSP for every 2 DS's sold right now. PSP was their first forray into the handheld market Sega bowed out of (giving Nintendo virtually 100% dominance at during that time). 40 Million sold against a powerful brand as the Gameboy is amazing quite frankly. And as much as some of you might hate it, the PSP NEEEDS to do well. It was because Sega and Sony were brave enough to challenge them that the Gameboy's hardware ever evolved at all.

nine07

@Winterbringer:
I'm 20, so I'm an adult, and I have a PSP (FAT) and I'm going to buy a PSP 3000, because it has more features, and the sound on my PSP(FAT) is broke.

Strife56

@Llost: im 19 and have a psp! we are like cousins..or enemies, perhaps cousins that are enemies....

pandafresh

@LittleBigPlaneteer: You're a fine one to talk about "bias and hate." Have you ever taken a look at your comment history?

Lemon Goo

Sony has failed at PR again. It's not too bad but I'm 19 and I have a DS rather than a PSP because handheld gaming feels like inferior gaming to me (just my particular perspective) but the DS offers me games I wouldn't get on the 360 or PS3 like Phoenix wright, pokemon, trauma center etc. It's because it's different that it got my interest whereas the PSP just tries to be useful on the go. Not saying it's bad but it's a lot of money to spend when a PS3 could surpass it left right and center.

Just look at it this way, LBP has mass appeal but seems like a more cutesy styled game and that's what Nintendo has. A kiddy image but mass appeal. 12 and under doesn't work today Sony.

Llost

"Yea, I can see the DSi being successful-- on your mom!"

lumpi

@Kensei: A lot of people do, in fact everyone I know does. Meanwhile, the option of a DS Lite is there if a GBA slot is necessary.

Xaif

Honestly Sony don't have nearly enough portable market control to even try and make these kind of burns.

Odin

Sony has not learned the fine art of not letting your suits talk shit about your rivals to the press when your fighting for your life. Learn that art fast Sony.

Foxstar Sixtail

If someone else has said this please forgive me...but
the DSi isn't just about the cameras and the MP3 playback. Those aren't even the most important features. It's about the DSware service that you can access and buy games from ON the Dsi...and it's about the SD card slot that allows you to store those games and play them on the go.

What's up with the selective hearing? Are people just not comprehending? Or is this just a total lack of imagination. I'll stop short of suggesting blatant stupidity. DSi also has better Wifi implementation and bigger screens.

So people are all for downloading games to the Wii but not the DS? huh? did I miss something?

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Dear Sony: What, exactly, is the PSP user base? People that want a portable with fewer games than the iPhone?

Illusion

@Ungruntled:

I think the DS Lite is a better option to be quite honest.

1. MP3 and SD storage - flash cards..? Legal (as per court cases) so long as you're not downloading ROMS.

2. Camera - you can live without

3. Larger screens - not higher resolution, though the contrast is a bit better i think

4. GBA Slot!

5. DS Lite will be cheaper, i imagine the DSi will fill the 99.99 slot in the UK, with the Lite moving down to 89.99.

Whiternoise

@smeloa: Sony is in a very crappy position right now. The only thing it really has going for it now is the Blu-ray.. RIP Playstation.

I have a PS1 (original), PS2, and PSP by the way.. too bad after God of War 2 there haven't been any good games in the PS line.

Resistance? That game sucked, to be honest. Uncharted was a polished Tomb Raider. MGS4 is the only real game PS3 exclusive right now. Oh well that will go to 2 once LBP is out.

Metonyx

@nine07: PSP is awesome. It's definitely not a failure but I think that problem is Sony didn't focus enough on gaming earlier out of the gate and also, their goal was for PSP to be the portable version of PS2 as far as sales go. PSP was supposed to do to DS what Playstation did to 64...bury it. Instead, Sony got beat. It's not even close.

But with that being said. I'd never want to play in a portable world with just a DS. After playing the best that PSP has to offer, I'd prefer to have a PSP with more games and more online. Although I hardly touch my DS, Nintendo provided me with an online experience that was worthy of a full console release with Mario KartDS and Metroid Prime Hunters. There were times when I would literally sit in my apartment playing those while my consoles collected dust. PSP never gave me an online experience like those but what it did give me that a lot of people seem to be ignorant of are some incredibly robust online offerings for other genres..

Syphon Filter Dark Mirror on PSP is hands down one of the greatest portable games ever released and it has a great online component too. Logan's Shadow is even better. Metal Gear Portable Ops is another great tactics game on PSP that shows what the portable offers that DS never could. Wipeout Pulse is yet another example. PSP is worthy. What it definitely is not...is crap

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Removing the GBA slot is a major blow for me - it removes 2/3 of the value really. Not a gripe since I can still play on my GBAs and DSes, but also true and relevant.

Adding the SD slot and online service... who knows? I will probably never use it.

And the two cameras - I had no use for the PSP camera either, but I got around that by not buying one. I'd certainly question the value I was getting if I had to buy two.

To me it's not even a DS vs PSP thing - I have 2 of each now (well, one DS seems mostly dead) - this just seems like a terrible thing to do to a DS in general IMO.

fuchikoma

My Dear Sony.... Could you PLEASE stop using this "OMG Nintendo is for teh kiddez" comments. Look at your past and see how great were your ads and publicity in the PS and PS2 era, that what we need.

alfredofroylan

@Strife56:

The point still stands. I think I see just as many little kids with PSP's as I do with DS's. The guy's comment just sounds like any internet troll's average "lol Nintendo is for teh kiddiez" comment.

But I'm sure it's just sour grapes on his part.

NeoAkira

"Will it be a product that expands their user base [beyond] under 12? I'm not sure."

OH NO HE DI'NT!

Psh, that sounds like something a 9 year old would say. -10 respect, Sony.

yanipheonu

@Llost: Both are good systems. Both have good games. I dunno , handhelds are just as good as thier bigger counterparts imo.

My DS. I use it to play games , and um..that's really it.
My PSP . I use it to play games , use the net where free wifi is and music.

휘성

@Noks415: a full market would be low sales or no sales, not being #1 on sales... a full market would be that of the xbox360 on Japan, all the people that wanted one, probably already got it. Every spike you see when a new RPG comes out, means the market is expanding, not people buying their second xbox360.

VakeroRokero

@Illusion:
2005 called - they want their joke back. :p

fuchikoma

@Foxstar Sixtail: fighting for their lives? huh? since when? Is Sony's on the verge of bankruptcy and I missed the breaking news?

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@Balius:

Dude, DS Lite does not equal DSi.

One has two cameras built in and a media player function as well as an SD card slot.

The other has no SD Card slot but has a GBA slot as well, but lacks and cameras or built-in media playing capabilities.

They both have attributes that are exclusive to themselves and would take away from each other's sales.

So yes, the DSi will take away sales from the DS.

NeoAkira

@Llost: huh?...but you also forget that PSP provides experiences you can't get on DS like Echochrome, Beats, Crush, intellicube and Patapon as well as games like Monster Hunter, Valkyrie Profile, Castlevania SoTN (which is still better than any DS or GBA version) Wipeout and GTA.

I'm not trying to piss on the DS but let's be fair. PSP does have a lot to offer if more people would take the time to give the library a chance instead or just repeating what they hear on the internet without actually...I dunno...playing the thing.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

"So I heard they want a statement from us about the DSi Nintendo is releasing..."
"Fantastic- how are we going to smear them this time?"
"They've got everything going for them...let's make them look like they're only selling to kids so that our macho attitudes will feel better!"
"YEAH! Definitely a great idea!"

JGab

No GBA slot=no DSi for me. I'm not sacrificing such greats as Final Fantasy VI Advance, for a 0.3/3.0 MP Camera and an SD card slot to transfer them to the Wii's Photo channel. i'm just not interested. As for sony's comment, they're pushing the DS, but they gotta hit them with that low blow. The PSP is just as good as the DS to me, sales aside.

XCha0s

Always the same story...
"Nintendo sells only to the kids"...
Come on Sony, my 400$ for the PS3 could be used to pay someone better than your obtuse workers at your PR office.

togovero

am i crazy i think the dsi is ugly compared to the lite. everyone seems to think it looks better but in reality it is bland. it has ugly mat finish no ds logo and an ugly looking camera that was poorly designed.

Assassin_Kensei

@Winterbringer: sadly it speaks a great deal about their business, they are selling to older gamers, and these guys are downloading their games from P2P.

Little kids are not clever enough to pirate games so they have to tell mom to pay $30 for a game, as the Sony crowd is, since for those same $30 they pay broadband access and bittorrent their games, which they already own all 100 PSP games, so I guess Sony is also selling to smarter people, probably also european models seeing their ads.

VakeroRokero

@fuchikoma: do you own a PS3 or a 360? Do you download demos, or games to the HDD on either? Imagine playing a 360 with no Live and no HDD for over two years and then MS releases a 360 with a HDD and XboxLive giving you the ability to download and store games, ready for play from the HDD with better online capabilities.

this is what Nintendo has done with the DSi. what I can't understand for the life of me...people are not understanding that DS was hampered without any type of real internal storage. all demos and DLC had to be stored in system memory which is practically nothing. Once the DS goes off...poof....it's gone. A SD card slot is a no brainer. It opens up all kinds of possibilities for DLC. it also opens up possibilites for DS and Wii connectivity. Why would you NOT want a SD card Slot and the ability to runs games from it? Let's face it GBA games may still be played but GBA is dead. Nintendo knows this, some of us know it, others need to accept it. It's dead. The Gameboy brand is dead. Why would anyone want Nintendo to make another Gameboy after DS? Unless it was a DS that carried a Gameboy name.

Nintendo is moving on. You should too. If you want to play GBA games get a DSlite. problem solved. But the DSi is all about the DLC and DSware, the better wifi and the browser and the bigger screens.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@ChibiKyKiske: They tell me that if you have Windows installed inside Parallels, you can play on a GMA 850 or 900. At least if you want to go that route.

teeth7

@Swizzler121: my psp lite has survived quite a few good drops, not sure how you treat your psp, but mines doing fine.

sereal

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.:By fighting for their lives, I mean the fact that they've gone from #1 for two gens to #3 in home consoles and #2 in portables and they are only #2 in portables because the other rivals aren't even real rivals.

And given the way the market's going and Sony's various issues with other departments over the years plus the fact for a long time the Playstation division was the only profitable branch of Sony, they may very well end up fighting for their life for real.

As for the PSP, yeah it's a good machine. But it's overdeveloped to a fault, the attachment rate is ass and 60% of it's users haven't bought a single game. All the games you point out, save for Monster Hunter have shit for sales. That does not help them earn follow ups.

Foxstar Sixtail

@ridleysaria: You're right. This generation is the 80+ year old demographics. Nintendo really cant find that sweet spot can they?

NoBullet

@Fnor: Haha, I fully agree. The people in the games "industry" can be very childish at times. That's show business, I suppose.

I'd love it if they spent more time on making games - what they're being paid to do, by the way - than holding spats and controversies in public. Marketing does not a good game make.

Bravepower

@휘성: Or you could play your GBA games on the DS you already own. Or maybe even your GBA!

But in all seriousness, the DSi won't pose competition for the DS/DS Lite so much as revitalise Nintendo's handheld sales (not that they're doing poorly). For example, people who own a DS and never upgraded to a Lite will be more inclined to buy the DSi, since it offers actual functional upgrades, not just cosmetic ones.

Also, I think they're timing the DSi release in reaction to the new market competition (iPhone and PSP-3000). This is a very smart move, ensuring that people won't forget about the little handheld that could.

Bravepower

I'm sure they're trying hard not to say that Nintendo could do anything they wanted to the DS, and still have it sell like crazy. I'm not into the improvements much compared to the DSlite though.

Puchi

@adocious: I tip my hat to you; excellent point!

Bravepower

@Ungruntled: There are two cameras. The (interior) hinge camera is 0.3 megapixels, and the exterior camera is 3.0 megapixels.

The exterior camera is obviously the one for taking photos. Methinks the interior camera is for gaming, a la the Game Boy Camera. I loved that game. :)

Bravepower

@ruba-dub-dub: The PSP does have porn, so they got a big 15 year old market.

VakeroRokero

"Will it be a product that expands their user base [beyond] under 12? I'm not sure."

Wonderful political-correctness there, not giving a straight answer.

And yet ironically the Game Boy Camera was such a hit with my friends up to (and including) middle school. I don't suppose he even knows about that little piece of gaming history if he's making such claims.

Ah, the wonders of a camera and a bunch of moustache stamps...

Bravepower

@Assassin_Kensei:

I think it's ugly too. That camera on the front is a real eye sore to me.

LittleBigPlaneteer

If there are some really awesome DSi apps coming out, I might consider it. Bummer it only support AAC.

m-p{3}

Call me when you release the DS2 Nintendo. I want to play Pokemon (yeah...I'll admit it), but I'm not going to risk purchasing the DSi knowing fully well that when I do buy one that Nintendo will announce the DS2.

Stoeck

Expand something that is already full?
*looks down at stomach* :(
Easy!

I wonder if Sony will do anything to counter the DSi. Mayhaps we will get some PSPie? ... *expands more*

MetaKz

I don't know why people keep criticizing the DSi! I mean at least it added new features and not just a shiny screen and mostly useless TV-Out *cough*PSP Slim*cough*. I think it's awesome and wanted to import it from Japan... at least until I found out that it's REGION LOCKED!!! It's an awesome portable but... REGION LOCKED!!???

EtOmar94

lol thing is probably wrong to say but i think pedophiles will love the DSi as for it will have everything they'll need. Hi kiddo see my DSi "click" .

It will sell well yeah because it nintendo and its well nintendo. Kinda crazy during the GC era you couldnt say this. Hopefully Nintendo will milk the DS/Wii and make their next console have some horsepower.

mash25

User base under 12? Holy smokes. I gotta get me on this new age anti-aging miracle wonder. Do I just rub the touch screen onto my face to get that 12 year old look?

questworld

@Earthslide: I think you're on to something... linking MAC and nintendo together.

RyuriTatsujin

no... what Nintendo wants to do, is make their products consumable, similar to the cell phone... ppl buy new version just for the sake of it...

Jay

@Mister_Jack:
The PSP 3000 has already been announced, quite a while before the DSi was, so that makes both Nintendo and Sony on their 3rd versions of both their respective handhelds, I'm not going to reply to the "troll-ish" part of your comment, you're not worth my time with that.

Strife56

@NeoAkira:
I'm not sure were you live, but over here, there are very few kids aged around 7-13 that have PSP's, it's like my brother (who is 9) and his group of friends, they all have DS's were as not one of them has a PSP.

I think personally, when older kids around the age of 15-17 see the DS, they think to themselves (Oh no, I don't want to look like a child) so that age group would be more inclined to pick up a PSP system as it seems more "mature".

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying either console is more mature than the other, I just think Nintendo still give off that "for kids" vibe with the DS, were as Sony don't, they're marketing this as a maturer console, especially by putting the GPS and Skype functions in it.

At the end of the day, it's all up to the consumer to choose what's "childish" and what isn't, I don't care, I've bought nearly every Nintendo handheld since the beginning, just like I bought a PSP, they both have their advantages, and obviously the DS is more successful, but just throwing numbers down doesn't determine a better console, enjoy them both for their features and games, and be glad Sony's PSP is around, because it's actually helping push handheld gaming forward.

Strife56

@blackpanther25:
That's an extremely tight interpretation of the results, suggesting that _noone_ else plays the DS. Clearly, as the graph shows, the DS' primary demographic (in Japan, at least) is people who are still alive.

From what I've seen, young kids are the (slightly) biggest chunk of the demographic because the DS is the least expensive thing on the market, with a lot of games that are age-appropriate. Then when they grow a bit older and get all hung-up on being "cool", they switch to the PSP because it'll make them look more grown-up (not true, but hey, a kid has to have fantasies, right?). That is, they play the PSP if they're not getting it on with some hottie (in which case, they probably drop gaming altogether). And then when they realize that being cool isn't as fun as being fun, they drop the PSP and go back for some DS lovin'.

Purple Dave

Aw, it's cute that Sony still thinks that hatin' on the clear victors will actually make people stop buying from the competition and start buying from them instead. After all, that's worked so well in the last couple years...

Purple Dave

@Khab:
I'm still kinda fond of when Microsoft said that they'd win because everyone would buy a 360 and a Wii, and Sony said that _they'd_ win because everyone would buy a PS3 and a Wii, and Nintendo just said that the Wii would be a new experience for everyone.

Purple Dave

According to Sony, the population of Japan is 12 years or younger.

TeaBean

You know he probablary is a closet DS fan, right?

Poor man, I can't even see him playing probablary the best release Sony will have this or next year, that being LBP because he fears someone will think him not mature.

scotty999

@Winterbringer: I'm 25, and I have a PSP. Meanwhile, I'm not even slightly interested in a DS.
@Swizzler121: I've dropped my PSP quite a few times, and it's still working perfectly.

somarix

Says the company that has problems selling their PS3s.

Not paying for a system that looks like a $400 printer.

MellowJade

The DSi update is small, but it's still more than what Sony has offered in the PSP revisions.

M

My, you certainly seem to be jumping to defend this thing from anyone who has an even slightly negative opinion on this article... I see you asked me questions I answered in my post so you can't even be bothered to read an argument to respond to it. I'm feeling generous today so I'll explain a bit more slowly.

Yes, I have a PS3 and a Wii. I find the Wii's offerings to be either uninteresting or retro games. I'd buy some PS3 games online if they'd let me, but they have far less value than hard copies since once PSN moves on past PS3, and my PS3 dies, they're gone for good.

I don't hate the idea of the SD card slot, but it would be par for the course with downloadable games if my downloads only ever worked on my DS, and any replacement unit would be unable to play them. Of all my handhelds including Nintendo ones back to the GB, my first DSL is the only one to die due to accumulated defects without taking any damage from accidents, so this doesn't bode well. The second one is looking good so far. Long story short, unless there's something about a downloadable game I absolutely cannot resist, I get it on physical media or not at all, so this feature has no value to me (like I said more briefly yesterday.)

As for the rest of it. There are enough DS games I'd call "great" to hold in one hand. I still don't feel like DS games on average have caught up to GBA games, so it's premature to remove the slot, as evidenced by the massive hue and cry on here about it (that you've probably rebutted one by one all day yesterday.) Truly, I can still play GBA games on my GBA, GBA SP, new DS Lite, or if I get around to fixing it, old DS Lite (like I said yesterday, but thanks for the suggestion, lol.) That's confusing the point though - the matter is that without that slot, I'd pay about $50 for this thing, but I'm certain they plan to charge at least double that.

The screen size... is a minor bump. Really, compared to the PSP, it's a drop in the bucket. May as well enlarge it though while they're revising things, it is always nicer. And the cameras are... useless. Even if DSi software supports it, why should I expect it to be better than camera games on PSP? Or PS3? Or PS2? Or XBox? Or PCs 10 years ago? Especially after seeing the "genius" of Wii Music? I'd opt out of them, but if you buy this unit, you can't - at the cost of half of its battery.

It's not a matter of moving on or not, this thing is just a dog through and through. It offers me nothing new that I care about, and removes the strongest crutch the DS had. I beg your forgiveness if I don't rush out to the store on launch date and buy one of each color.

fuchikoma

@fuchikoma:
Hm, even though I clicked "reply" to reply, my post was missing this link... *'_';*

@Striderhayasa

fuchikoma

@Ungruntled: I was holding out on getting a Lite until after the DSi was announced. Now I'm getting a Lite for sure so I can keep playing Chain of Memories on the go with The World Ends with You.

Americo

Uh...how can you expand a market that's already full?

WTF they surely don't hire these guys for brains do they? Are you seriously suggesting every single person from day one out of the womb, have a DS tied to their wrists?

LaylaMisun

@Xaif: So, effectively, buy a DS lite and a DSi just to play GBA games.

How about, less money consumption, more GBA retroactivity!

Christ, you are not worried about income...

Kensei

@Kensei: No, buy one or the other and keep your GBA instead.

Xaif

you wouldnt need a gba slot when you can just port games from rom to sd card. hell you barely need the ds slot, basically a ds with camera mp3 playback, and sd card. the online store is neat too, id buy if i didnt have a ds or if i needed a new one for whatever reason.

SanchaliWalsall

@Xaif: Thats the point, GBA = used to buy this new handheld...

Ferrero.

Kensei

@Kensei: Like I say, I don't know any people who do that with their used consoles...

Xaif

@Xaif: Then your lying on the internet, well done...for a start, I've done it before...and I don't not know you...

Rocher.

Kensei

@Xaif: Lost arguement, oh shit, the recession might affect my comments AHHHHHH!

Kensei

@Kensei: SpA

Xaif

@VakeroRokero: My sentiment exactly.

Then again, the reason Nintendo is releasing the DSi is probably that they see some kind of market saturation. And I don't think it's aimed at the exact same targets as the DS Lite.

Perhaps "how can you expand a market that's already full" was aimed at the <12 market?

JTFirefly

lol. Sony hatin' again. DS undoubtedly has a larger age demographic than the PSP, but Sony wants to pigeon-hole the DS as a '12 and under' system. Their arrogance is very amusing nowadays, given the position their in.

Kenology18