@Archaotic:
i agree with you 100 percent

gessyca

The reason not to keep beta levels...

(which, FYI, I disagree with, so don't think this is my actual opinion, just the probable point of view MM had before the cries of injustice)

...is because they were made with limited tools compared to what the final game will have. Thus, the examples people will be working off of would be examples poorly built and not including the final tools in the game.

For example, let's say that there's a tool which keeps your objects rotation in place, no matter how bumped around it gets. Unfortunately, none of the rockets found in the beta levels use this tool because in the beta it does not exist. I'm crossing my fingers hoping it does in the final game and, if it does, people may not realize they should be using this tool on their rockets because none of the beta levels use it. People may think the tool is useless.

This is the argument most likely made before the poll. The reason it can be reversed is because it's not a very strong argument. The amount of people who own the full game will outnumber the beta players so largely that I'm sure the really good content will come within 3 days and shove every beta level off the planet in no time.

Or the final game couldn't be backwards compatible with beta levels but they figured out a way to make it work and thus changed their mind. Y'know... one of these...

DaveKap

Im still kind of lost as to what exactly is the point of this game... Does it have bosses, or enemies or anything? Most of the videos Ive seen involve someone running through a short level, collecting things and then reaching a goal. Someone care to enlighten me?

Altima NEO

I guess some people want it to start on a clean slate on release day. At least that's the only reason I can think of right now.

hobbock

My crappy level deserves to live!

Noks415

@Pound my tom-tom: The GoW level is truly awesome. But I had assumed it was some sort of "official" level made by the GoW people. I mean... it was just way too professional.

dowingba

More user created content isn't necessarily better. MM I think at least should consider only the better ones that will make the transition from beta to final or make some rating system that will indicate which level is better. Not all the levels created are better or polished enough to be released. If on day 1 people exposed to some of the badly made levels, it can hurt LBP more than it can help.
People should (be forced to) play the included level first instead going for user created level... And too much content can be overwhelming at times and only serve as distraction.

Rurouni

@Archaotic: I had the same thought too, his/her levels really are out-standing. I copied the level into the creator mode to pull it apart and some of the design in that, I can't work out because it's so complex.

Morpork

I say keep em. after playing the GoW planet someone put a lot of work into making it, it would be a shame to lose something that someone obviously worked hard on. I did a small little platformer and it took me 3 days just to get it to work the way I want it to.

lots of hard work involved, no matter how small or crappy a level is. they should somehow find a way to keep them.

tralfaz23

@Pound my tom-tom:
I still think that creator is a pro developer working incognito. All of his levels, not just the God of War one, show a deeper understanding of LBP level design than almost anyone else I've seen so far. They really are professional quality.

Not to mention he's using the GoW texture pack, which shouldn't even be available for download yet.

Archaotic

As someone who's been in the beta for a while, I like that they're keeping the levels. However, I also think that it might be wisest for Media Molecule to separate them out somehow, so that newcomers to the retail version have a chance to get their levels shown. As it stands right now, several stages that have been there since day one of the beta are STILL on Page 1, and it's getting intensely difficult find newer stuff.

Then again, I've heard all the levels from the Parsons level design competition are getting their own Parsons Planet in the retail build, so maybe we'll see a Beta Planet too for all the old beta holdovers. If they did it that way, the game could get a fresh start AND there'd be a whole slew of levels to play for new people.

Archaotic

@dowingba: yea but have you not seen the God of War: Demon Skull level?

either way the beta level's can be updated without making a new name of the level at least from what i saw

Pound my tom-tom

The only argument against keeping the content would be that, once the retail game hits, these beta levels will no doubt be completely overshadowed by the levels people start building with all the tools instead of the small percentage of stuff we have in the beta.

Still though, some of those beta levels must have taken some serious time and skill to make. I'd hate to see them deleted.

dowingba

@NecronomiconUK:

Nice level, i like how you got the sound effects to work and how the car stayed neatly on the tracks rather than just wildly shooting off. Most people probably would have just strapped wheels and a rocket onto a fortune cookie and called it day, but you took the classy road.

BallPtPenTheif

Man.. no fair.. I still don't have a beta key (and will likely never get one at this point) Gahhhh it's like I'm a dog sitting under the dinner table and I can smell all your delicious people food..

cio

@DaveKap: Personally I'm bloody sick of all the rocket and rocket car levels.

NecronomiconUK

They need to definitely keep them. My question is if I have a created level do I need to publish it in order to save it? For instance I have a level that I have not completed and thus have not published it, will the full version of the game just find that save file on my hdd or would I need to publish it - download it in order to continue working on it??

Charlie Kelly

Does this mean they'll keep that flying penis level?

grundlesnatch

I really hope my level stays, I sunk days worth of effort into it. But I do feel that they need to do a selective clear out because there really is a lot of crap clogging the tubes. Hopefully in the final version they will have sorted out the searching and listing system, in the beta it just isn't good enough. It's far too scattergun to be useful and as dowingba has said, there are far too many levels from the start of the beta getting 1000s of views on the front page whereas there are some great newer levels that are impossible to find.

Oh, and time to pimp my level, as featured on Media Molecule's blog :-P

+ Watch video

NecronomiconUK

Totally agree with a "beta planet" area. I had a blast last night running through a ton of different levels with a couple people I met online and some of them are a lot of fun, even if "limited" (?? Really? It's amazing what's being done!).

Does anyone know if our saved items/pictures/etc will carry over to the final retail product, or is there any way to save pictures taken in-game? (not with the Eye, I mean photos of levels) We kept posing for pictures and it'd be a shame to lose it all.

Justin42

@DaveKap: Maybe there should be some kind quality upgrade before passing a beta level into the final. Maybe the server could check if your level is using up-to-date textures, bug fixes, and what not. Or maybe there should just be a warning label, when you open the level.

"This level made with beta code. Enjoy at your own risk!"

gojirah

Yeah, it'd be stupid to let all that content go to waste, especially since it would boost the online community right off the bat. No waiting for great online content!

Blah8

@Altima NEO: You must be too busy to google. Here you go:

[en.wikipedia.org]

Try ctrl-F then "boss".

gojirah

I'm glad they're keeping the levels, but I'm glad I get to start fresh again too... Because my three half finished levels are Level Shite. I mean, god awful crap. And hopefully starting all over again will make my new ones seem better.

Hopefully.

2NinjasTapedTogether

if anything, i think people that created levels should at least be able to keep their levels

tralfaz23

@dowingba: well to pimp someone else from Kotaku's level (not me) try Ice Ice Planet 1 through 5

Pound my tom-tom

@Altima NEO: I'm sorry, but by this point there is a cubic shit-ton of videos with awesome user created levels with all kinds of variety of gameplay.

If you don't get it and haven't done any research, then it's your problem. Not everybody else on the intarwebz.

boringjob2

@Charlie Kelly: Yes, it needs to be published, normal save data and story progress won't cross over to the retail version.

DragonNinja

@cio: Beta closes tomorrow anyway I think.

DragonNinja

Have you guys tried the Mirror's Edge level ? It's awesome ! Probably the one I replayed the most.

As for the subject, I didn't even try to make a level, I didn't want it to be destroyed, now I know I can do it but I don't think I'd have time to make something good, since the beta is closing soon !

Shteve

@Rurouni: At least in the beta, you're forced to play a level that comes with the game first.

As soon as people get the game, they're going to try and make a level. Those first creations will show up right away, and plenty of them are not going to be very good. Erasing the beta levels, some of which are good isn't going to prevent this.

Bootes

Save my ROFLCOPTER level! I love it.

emm33

@Archaotic:
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Strife56

I NEVER GOT IN THE BETA! I tried each and every one of those code give-a-ways. I tried doing some of them twice. I tried everything short of buying a code, which I just won't do for a game I'm about to buy.

PapaBear434

@BallPtPenTheif: Thanks very much. Took me a long time to tweak the track to make it smooth, stay on the track and of course so it actually made it over the humps. After days of pulling my hair out getting the track right it was great fun at the end adding all the sounds and prettiness. Unfortunately my crappy camera footage didn't pick up all the sounds but it's surprising how much difference they made to the overall 'feel'

NecronomiconUK

@DragonNinja: thanks, i havent published anything and am iffy about publishing something undone...when you publish it can you download and edit it? i wouldnt want other people to use my foundation...

Charlie Kelly

@Noks415: Crappy Levels are people too!
I would know, I made one

Lyncj0005

@emm33:

Upload it to youtube! I want to see a level with a roflcopter!

eggnog007

@Shteve: Yes! The Mirror's Edge one is definitely my favorite so far. It's the first time I really enjoyed a 'race' level. (Mostly because the others are just badly done rocket cars, but.)

I was wondering if they'd fry that one for using EA's game name, though... you can't copyright the idea of a running level in white and red, but you can slam it for being called Mirror's Edge. Same goes for the Mario Bros. levels.

Twoflower

i would leave the levels for 2 weeks after release date for people to "save" some of the useful composition of objects but afterward the level themselves should be deleted. There are already almost too many, and the worst is how hard it is to really see the good ones in the ocean of "cute but shitty" to "just plain bad". of course there are many ways to search but its exactly what i feared, the system is not reliable enough, chances are some great levels will never be noticed.

i doubt any of the stuff in the beta will actually compete with what we see in there a month from now

DirtyDebutant

I knew they'd keep them after getting into the beta. The things that people have done with a limited toolset (myself included, when the full game comes out, check out SuperUltraHappyFunPlace, it took me a while to make, and it's hard as nails.) have been astounding, the God of War level, the Shadow of the Colossus level(s), yes, even the ROFLcopter level is cool. It's not just the length of the levels that make them good though, it's the thoughts, concepts (see: Little Big Calculator) and determination that people put in to their work that makes it horrible to even think that those levels and that work wouldn't be worth anything.

Trust me, once we all get our hands on the full game, this phenomenon will take off like no one can imagine.

CitizenInsane27

@NecronomiconUK: Yeah, my buddy that works at Best Buy said they got two boxes of em in like a half a week ago. If they can sell them (which seems street dates are broken more often than not these days) I'm sure they will.

CitizenInsane27

@alexander: i guess it has.... stick em on eBay.. .you will honestly make a fortune.

NecronomiconUK

@Altima NEO: well it was only a matter of time before we get our first "I don't get this..." or "What's this game about..." comment. This has become very predictable.

Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!

Has LittleBigPlanet broken it's street date? Because I just came from Target and bought 2 of them. When I saw the boxes I thought they were preorder boxes but they are not. They are game...

alexander

so far as far as im concerned the game is very much meeting its hype

stryker1800

@alexander: I hope Christmas comes early for me...I placed them on eBay...

alexander

@Jun581 won't give you tree fiddy!!: This is what I'm worried about. Since most news on LBP is about how good the creation aspect of the game. I think the majority wants to play instead creating their own level. What is Sony strategy on marketing LBP? are they going to push the creation aspect or the built-in levels? Is the story on the built-in levels good enough for marketing material? No matter how good the creation aspect, most people want to play games instead of creating them. How does the default level going to compare to some of the best platformer out there?

I really hope that without the creation aspect, this game will still be a good buy and I can't wait for review that separate the default levels and the user creation aspect.

So, my biggest question is the game mostly going to be about user creating game/levels (which right now I think it is) and can I ignore the user creation aspect and still have fun and engaged with the game?

Rurouni

@grundlesnatch:
That was never published in the first place. Just recorded in the safety of create mode.

DustySword

@joeloliol:

for example, it would be cool if we could look at the levels that have been "hearted" by other gamers that we respect.. so if i find a level i really like, i could look at the guy who made it, play all his levels, and then also look at the levels he has hearted, and find the levels made by those people that i like, and look at the levels they've hearted, etc..

that would be one way to consistently find quality levels, i think.

joeloliol

@DirtyDebutant:

i agree that the system for finding levels needs to be tightened.

i've played some AWFUL levels because they had a "brilliant" tag.

damnit! that level wasn't brilliant at all!

nevertheless, i've also found some amazing levels, and i think after a bit of experience, i'll find better ways to find the types of levels i'm looking for.

joeloliol

@Twoflower:

cool, i'll have to look for that level.

my favorite level that i'd played is World of Color... such a good gameplay in that one!

joeloliol

@NecronomiconUK:

definitely a cool level! this is part of the reason why this game is so amazing... i would never have thought about a roller coaster level, especially since all the character does is sit there and hold on, but hey! it was cool! and so, thats just another part of the game that i think is pretty cool!

i hope that i keep getting surprised by the ideas people have for this game, and that there is no end to the amazing levels that some people will be able to make.

joeloliol

@Archaotic: If the levels must remain… then, certainly, I agree; it would be most egregious if those same damn levels on the first page maintain their ascendancy in the retail version. There needs to be an interfacial change if these levels are going to stay.

Tito Bellic

@joeloliol: Yeah I tried that one too, it's a pretty good one !

Shteve

Yes!!! I'm actually quite surprised people actually made good levels in the beta. I downloaded an awesome god of war level, a roller coaster level, pinball level, tetris and the calculator. I want all of them in the final game.

rich8606

@rich8606: I loved the 360 vs PS3 level.

AlanR

@alexander: Are you in Pasadena?

AlanR

@Rurouni: As a player in the beta I can assure you, you can completely ignore the creation mode if you want to have fun. The campaign maps were pretty fun, but the user created maps were really good too. You literally have an endless supply of levels made by the fanbase.

Vault

It's hard for me to believe they needed to have a vote about this, Generally people don't like to see their efforts of any kind go to waste.

Neo-Senku: The World's Finest Pervert

@AlanR: Yup, South Pas to be specific. Right by Lake Ave. and Colorado...

alexander

Wasnt trolling here, I was being serious. Really didnt know much about the game beyond the user created stuff.

Thanks, Rurouni

Altima NEO

@NecronomiconUK: What is needed is a proper "rating" system. Like, after you finish playing a level, you get to rate it 1-10. So when you go to "Cool Stuff" it just shows you the latest levels that were uploaded, as well as whatever you have "hearted", but there'd be a separate option for "highest rated" and it'd just be the top 100 levels or something, based on average score.

Honestly, I like to find the levels barely anyone has played yet. Sure, some of them suck, but a surprising number have been awesome, and I'm always way up high on the leaderboard for at least a little while!

dowingba

@emm33: I played that level (unless there are more than one wtih the same name). It was indeed hilarious.

dowingba

I made a level: it was just a huge staircase made of glass (slippery) that goes on and on forever...or until it hit the horizontal limit to how big a stage could be. Then your only choice is to jump off. And I didn't put a "goal" in, so you can't ever finish it.

I'm doing you guys a favour by not publishing this level.

dowingba

I think maybe a the beta levels should be available for a 3 month (or so) period of time... that would give us time to check them out before they get "overshadowed" by the new improved stuff with the full tool set. Also, it might spur amore people to buy in the sense that "I better get it now" in order to check it out the content brfore its gone..

nerfrobot

As likely the only person to not be in the beta, I'm getting sick of hearing news about this game.I might fly off the handle and flash kick a senior citizen if the next news I hear about this game isn't "it comes out today".

LordCoCo1

@dowingba: He/She is indeed amazing, same thoughts as you guys, he's either working with MM or some other game design company! I just hope he does get the extra upload space MM talked about.

Go heart them!

Rhaedaw

@bitnard: sorry !!

+ Watch video

bitnard

@eggnog007:

+ Watch video

bitnard

@LordCoCo1:
Don't worry, it's well worth the wait.

CosmicElement

@LordCoCo1: One word: "SIFT".

One of the great things about gaming blogs, like Kotaku, is the fact that there is a wide range of gaming news on here that you will not have to pay a subscription rate for, and in a more timely fashion too!

It often humors me when I read that there is too much of one thing or another; when the reader could SIMPLY just scroll down a little more to find whatever news they like.

Don't like the LBP threads? There are Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, Palin on Rock Band, Tokyo Game Show, Halo 3 Recon, and other news threads in this blog, as well.

Soldier_CLE

@Archaotic: they are separated by views. whoever has more views will most likely be at the top of the list.

lllusionx

and it's now closed... if you have it open now don't close it... it will work until you quit.

please MM, don't erase my level... and if you're really cool you'll let us on the beta use our saved costumes... I had a real nice one going.

PSN: kingpsyz

granted I got the beta with only 4 days to explore and unlock all the items via turtorials...

but my level, Little Donkey Planet Kong V.2 makes it all worth while...

it's mindblowing what you can do with the tools provided.

PSN: kingpsyz

@Soldier_CLE: Well see I read it all, I don't go searching specifically for one so I can complain. I like the LBP threads, just tired of waiting I suppose. Besides, three of the things you listed aren't out either, one I would've had to travel to another land(which I did last year), and the other... eh Palin just ain't worth me talking about right now, just leave that one at that.

LordCoCo1

@gessyca: Seconded

ScruffytheJanitor