industry news
Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo Talk Edutainment
Posted by Brian Crecente at 4:00 AM on October 15, 2008
So last month I picked a pet peeve to harp on and on and on about. I wanted to know why it is we don't see more educational video games for this next-generation of consoles. Why no awesome Math Blasters or Reader Rabbits or Typing of the Deads for the Playstation 3, Wii or Xbox 360. One thing I learned is that there are a few of those out there, but I still wanted to hear from the three console holders on the top. So I emailed Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony to see their take on number of prepared questions. All of which lead to my final question: Why not give away an educational game on your console?
Hit the jump to read the answers from Denise Kaigler, Nintendo of America's vice president of Corporate Affairs; John Koller, director of hardware marketing, SCEA; and XNA General Manager Boyd Multerer.
Do you think educational games are a good fit for your console either via a standard disc title or downloadable title?
Kaigler
The response of consumers to games like Brain Age for Nintendo DS demonstrated to the entire industry that games with an educational theme were viable. Brain Age remains a top seller, which tells us people are hungry for different kinds of entertainment, including those that stimulate your brain. We have already seen Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree for the Wii console. Wii is a good fit for educational games because the pointing and motion-sensing abilities of the Wii Remote controller allow for more dynamic inputs than simply pressing a button.
Koller
Consoles and handhelds can be a great platform for educational games because they leverage advanced technology while providing an interface that's intuitive to users. Teens and younger children in particular are familiar with how to interact with games on these systems, so whether it's for entertainment or education, consoles and handhelds are a natural fit. As far as the medium, both disc and downloadable titles would be appropriate.
Multerer
As part of the XNA team, I don't want to speculate as to the overall strategy of the console. What I can tell you is that with Xbox LIVE Community Games, we're opening the floodgates to the community to create any type of game they want to see on Xbox 360, including educational games. What we've seen through programs like Imagine Cup, Dream-Build-Play, Games for Change and the Community Games beta is that developers are interested in making games that are educational and socially responsible, and we're now giving them a forum to do that and reach millions for the first time on any console.
When Xbox LIVE Community Games launches as part of the new Xbox Experience this holiday, we fully expect to see fun titles that span the entire spectrum of gaming. That means we'll see games that intentionally have an educational focus like "City Rain," "Future Flow" and "Clean Up" which were all created by teams of university students to teach concepts of environmental sustainability.
Why do you think educational games haven't really found their way onto the current generation of consoles?
Kaigler
I'm not sure about the overall reason, however, educational software on our portable Nintendo DS has gained a foothold. Games like Brain Age and Big Brain Academy demonstrate that the public enjoys video games with educational themes. You also see a variety of third-party software with brain-training themes.
Koller
We're still in the relatively early days of the current generation of consoles, and when you consider that PS3 will have a 10-year lifecycle, it takes time before secondary applications start to take shape. With the PSP, now in its fourth year of its lifecycle, there are educational games. We work with PLATO Learning, which develops educational software for children as part of its PLATO Achieve Now on PSP program. PLATO provides the software and PSP units to grammar schools that are interested in adding an interactive component to their curriculum.
But it's not just about math and science. Our first-party PlayStation 2 title, Eye Toy: Kinetic, provides fitness education, while our Buzz franchise has an educational component delivered through the more entertaining format of a quiz show.
Multerer
Up until recently, with the release of free development tools like XNA Game Studio, console games have been extremely expensive to make. They're expensive for developers and publishers alike, sometimes costing upwards of tens of millions of dollars, which means that everyone is less likely to take risks with new or unproven concepts. With Xbox LIVE Community Games, we're able to give those sometimes risky, experimental and innovative titles an opportunity to make their way to consumers at little cost to the developer. For the first time ever, Microsoft is opening the floodgates for those developers to prove that an educational game can be a blockbuster.
Is your company currently developing any educational games for your platform?
Kaigler
It depends on how you're defining educational games. Games like Mystery Case Files: MillionHeir for Nintendo DS require a close attention to detail, while the upcoming Wii Music teaches about different musical instruments and can lead to a greater appreciation for music. Many other games require skills like problem solving or teamwork. And then you have software like the "Coach" series from Ubisoft that is designed to teach users something new, such as a language or vocabulary. They have My Spanish Coach, My French Coach, My Japanese Coach, My Word Coach and even My Weight Loss Coach. Nintendo's upcoming Personal Trainer: Cooking for Nintendo DS helps people out in the kitchen and can even teach you to make new dishes. The "educational" label can apply to all kinds of games.
Koller
Yes, see above.
Multerer
Again, I don't want to speak to the overall console strategy, but what I can say is that with Community Games we are leaving it open so that the community can create any type of game they want to see on Xbox 360, including educational games. We've already seen the beginnings of this, through programs like Imagine Cup, Games for Change, Dream-Build-Play and the Community Games beta. These programs have proven that developers are interested in making games that are educational and socially responsible, and we are excited to bring them a forum to do more of this and reach millions for the first time on a console.
When Xbox LIVE Community Games launches as part of the new Xbox Experience this holiday, we fully expect to see fun titles that span the entire spectrum of gaming. That means we'll see games that intentionally have an educational focus like "City Rain," "Future Flow" and "Clean Up" which were all created teams of university students to teach concepts of environmental sustainability.
The concept of corporate social responsibility argues that a company should consider the interests of society in their business decisions, to go beyond basic obligations and on occasion do something for the greater good. Do you think that concept pertains to the gaming industry as well?
Kaigler
Absolutely. Nintendo works regularly with a number of charities, most notably the Starlight Starbright Children's Foundation, which works to place video game consoles in children's hospitals. Having video games on hand for kids helps reduce anxiety and boredom during hospital stays.
Koller
Corporate social responsibility absolutely applies to the gaming industry. One great example of how SCEA is contributing to society is our partnership with Folding@home, which enables PS3 owners to offer the computing power of their system to support research into fighting diseases such as Alzheimer's and cancer.
Multerer
Whether we have a responsibility to consider the greater good or not, Microsoft has been a leader in this space by working with game creators to provide the resources and tools necessary to create games that positively impact society. What we've seen through programs like the Imagine Cup, Dream-Build-Play, Games for Change and the Community Games beta is that developers are interested in making games that are educational and socially responsible, and with Xbox LIVE Community Games, we're giving them a forum to do that for the first time on a console and reach millions. When the Community Games channel launches as part of the new Xbox Experience this holiday, we fully expect to see fun titles that span the entire spectrum of gaming. That means we'll see games that intentionally have an educational focus like "City Rain," "Future Flow" and "Clean Up" which were all created teams of university students to teach concepts of environmental sustainability.
Beyond that, Microsoft has always been a major proponent of working with academic institutions globally to help train the next generation of game developers. Our schools are having a harder and harder time recruiting students who want to major in the computer sciences. A study by UCLA found that between 2000 and 2005, the percentage of incoming undergrads who indicated they would major in Computer Science dropped by 70 percent. Numerous other studies and stories show that the US IT industry will not be able to find the talent needed to continue to grow the industry - resulting in additional pressure for outsourcing. We have been working with universities to help reverse this trend by incorporating game development into their curricula with XNA Game Studio, and universities are responding very positively. What better way to excite the programmers of tomorrow than the opportunity to make their own games?
I don't mean to say that these major efforts by Microsoft are entirely altruistic, this is a business, but we've been able to reach out in ways that open doors to aspiring developers and create opportunities for more socially responsible game creation, while ensuring that the best games continue to be made for Xbox 360.
As the industry tries to grow by widening its user base and extend its reach past traditional hard-core gamers to parents and children, should companies invest in developing educational games for their console and sell them for little or even give them away?
Kaigler
That's an interesting proposition. Our focus has always been on entertainment. Our WiiWare downloadable game service offers a great opportunity for companies large and small to create all kinds of games - educational games included - and offer them at a fraction of the cost of a disc-based game. We've already seen dozens of new WiiWare games from developers that have big ideas but smaller budgets.
Koller
If it fits a publisher's business model, educational games can be a tremendous opportunity to both expand the traditional user base, while contributing to the greater good. Price is less of a concern than distribution, as retailers are more apt to give space to better selling genres. This is why digital distribution is such an exciting avenue for educational titles.
Multerer
We're already seeing that happen in many ways. Over the past year Microsoft has been supporting the development of educational games through programs like Imagine Cup and with organizations like Games for Change. We've also seen through Dream-Build-Play and the Community Games beta that developers are interested in making games that appeal to a whole new range of gamers, like parents and children, and we're now giving them a forum to reach those consumers in their living rooms.
When Xbox LIVE Community Games launches as part of the new Xbox Experience this holiday, we fully expect to see fun titles that span the entire spectrum of gaming. That means we'll see games that intentionally have an educational focus like "City Rain," "Future Flow" and "Clean Up" which were all created teams of university students to teach concepts of environmental sustainability.
Apple found great success by targeting schools in the 1980s with affordable or even donated computers for classrooms. Do you see a time when consoles could also find their way into classrooms as a valid educational tool?
Kaigler
Wii and Nintendo DS are focused on entertainment, but they also have plenty of software that people are using to enrich their lives in other ways, such as Brain Age and Wii Fit. Recently we also have seen a trend of libraries incorporating Wii into their programming.
Koller
They already have through PLATO's work with the PSP and previously with the PSone and PlayStation 2.
Multerer
Absolutely. We have always believed that reaching out to universities and schools to integrate XNA development tools into the curriculum is fundamental to ensuring that great games continue to be created for Xbox 360. In 2005 we released XNA Game Studio, a set of development tools offering an approachable and affordable way for students and hobbyists to develop video games for Windows-based PCs and Xbox 360, and last year we announced that we would offer a free trial Creators Club membership for students and educational institutions, which we hope will help spark additional interest in game development and programming. The beauty of this program is that universities aren't required to have special hardware on hand that could potentially cost tens of thousands of dollars, but games created with XNA Game Studio will run on any retail Xbox 360 console.
XNA Game Studio has seen a surge of momentum this past year with more than 1,000,000 downloads, adoption by nearly 700 academic institutions globally and the creation of more than nine books on the tools in development since its release in 2005. The programs are still extremely new, but the excitement we've seen from both the development and academic communities has been overwhelming and we only expect to build on that momentum with the launch of Xbox LIVE Community Games as part of the New Xbox Experience this holiday.
We are heads and shoulders above our competitors in this space. We were the first to offer a free development toolset with XNA Game Studio, we are the first to pioneer full academic access to our next-gen console and development toolset, and we are pioneers in the space of community game development and user-generated content. More than either of our closest competitors we are providing the best, most accessible tools and the open game distribution channel over Xbox LIVE to ensure that the best games continue to be built for the Xbox 360 platform.
Do you think that the industry's console holders have a responsibility to create the sort of games that can be held up as an example of the positive influence games can have on children?
Kaigler
I think our vast library of games promotes a positive influence with kids. This library includes games that go beyond teaching the alphabet or multiplication tables. Wii and Nintendo DS have been at the forefront of the social gaming phenomenon. Friends play together and have fun. And the intuitive controls for our systems make them easy for anyone to pick up and play, which means different generations can play together. Games can open up the imagination, just like a good book or movie can.
Koller
LittleBigPlanet is exactly the type of game with the potential to be held up as providing a positive influence. The ability for gamers to create and share their own levels delivers a whole new level of interactivity in gaming that's never been seen before. Children will be able to express their creativity in LittleBigPlanet, and perhaps we'll see the game will drive some children to pursue a career in the videogame industry.
Multerer
Whether we have a responsibility or not, Microsoft has been a leader in this space by working with game creators to provide the tools necessary to create games for children that inspire learning and healthfulness. Not only have we supported programs like the Imagine Cup and Games for Change, worked with universities to incorporate XNA tools into the curriculum to help spark interest in design and programming for the next-generation of developers, and offered affordable tools and an accessible pipeline to anyone who wants to reach children and families with educational game content, Microsoft Research recently partnered with New York University (NYU) and a consortium of universities to launch the Games for Learning Institute (G4LI).
The G4L Institute will study how educators can harness student predisposition toward technology to engage students and boost interest in math and science. The goal of this partnership is to identify, through scientific research, the key elements that make games fun and effective and translate those findings into the design and development of games as learning tools. The research will complement and extend existing research programs at NYU and Microsoft Research and will be shared broadly with researchers, game developers and educators in the hopes of pointing the way to a new era of using games for educational purposes.

Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
There are currently no AU comments for this post.
Talryyn
Posted 2:06 AM 15/10/08
I am working on two games right now for XNA that are educational. Since my son will not touch a Leap Frog product, probably our mistake since he had access to the 360/Wii/PS3 and really prefers the 360/PS3 actually.
It baffles me that LeapFrog would not want to develop for the larger base of the consoles.
I am working on a simple flash card style program for XNA, and a platformer where the player instead of getting coins will hear the sound of what ever they are getting "A","1","red" etc.
Little Big Planet could also be used, and easily for user created educational levels.
Talryyn
Grumpz®
Posted 1:58 AM 15/10/08
Isn't this why they make leapster? who wants to compete with an actual educational system?
Grumpz®
cdammers
Posted 1:57 AM 15/10/08
Brain Age/Training is hardly educational. Compare it to classic edutainment software like Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego, which actually taught kids stuff. The "coach" software is a much better example.
cdammers
NeoAkira
Posted 1:46 AM 15/10/08
@Robling:
I don't think they all made good points. Multerer definitely made almost no points at all unless you count him not wanting to speak about the "overall console strategy" counts as a point.
NeoAkira
njhardcoreguy
Posted 1:42 AM 15/10/08
Listen... all I want is a next generation Oregon Trail. I need some FPS hunting action and someone dying of malaria...
in HD.
njhardcoreguy
actionfitz
Posted 1:42 AM 15/10/08
idd. serious amount of 'ctrl c' and 'ctrl p' going on there :O
kind of shocking behavior from a company man reply to questions from a media source.
lazy **** much?
actionfitz
Len Bias Cocaine Surplus
Posted 1:41 AM 15/10/08
@GMC: It was one game I had no qualms about pirating recently
Len Bias Cocaine Surplus
tmanflys
Posted 1:38 AM 15/10/08
@greeble: would work on 360 too, and I would definitely buy it.
tmanflys
Lurk No More
Posted 1:38 AM 15/10/08
if Typing of the Dead was a XBLA game i'd get it. I never got around to playing it on my Dreamcast, but i'd give it a go using the 360.
Lurk No More
AlbenoEpiX
Posted 1:32 AM 15/10/08
I already learn quite a lot when I play games, there's nothing like a good romp through a fantastical MMO to increase one's knowledge of medieval weaponry. And who here can deny having owed half of their points at trivia night to 4 hour bouts of Civilization?
AlbenoEpiX
Kenoji
Posted 1:32 AM 15/10/08
Was a great game for the DC, for those that bought that keyboard. I tried to play that game in a Japanese arcade, it was pretty rough.
Kenoji
Smurph
Posted 1:31 AM 15/10/08
@Xer0Ph0kus: haha. Ya I saw that trend too. Man that Microsoft guy, Multerer, has a lot to say.
Smurph
Weegi
Posted 1:30 AM 15/10/08
Maybe people don't like giving up violence for math?
Weegi
jackal888
Posted 1:27 AM 15/10/08
I know most will dismiss this post, but I like educational games. Nintendo's Brain Training Games have been the only successful edutainment focused titles. There is a SAT Prep for DS also.Sodoku is on PSN and PSP has Intelligent Quotient which is a puzzle game that makes you think.I think Sony could do better with Folding@Home as far as making it educational.Microsoft has not shown me an educational title, maybe I missed it.
jackal888
GameBuddy
Posted 1:25 AM 15/10/08
I love how each one finds a way to flip the question around so they can brag on how well they've done in a certain area. That's good business.
GameBuddy
SlashZaku
Posted 1:25 AM 15/10/08
@jpneiswi: Questions about educational games in the industry and what each console maker's views are and what they're doing to help if any and all Multerer seems like he's doing is trying to sell the damn console :|
SlashZaku
KingDavid73
Posted 1:24 AM 15/10/08
I love Typing of the Dead. I have it for Dreamcast and I still occasionally play it.
KingDavid73
JuiceMan
Posted 1:24 AM 15/10/08
I zoned out halfway through the article... was that some cut, copy, paste I saw in there, or were those the actual responses?
JuiceMan
GMC
Posted 1:22 AM 15/10/08
Typing of the Dead cannot be found for the PC anywhere. I see pictures of it in a "Bargain Release" packaging, but never the object itself.
SEGA should reprint a few and get this economy started, I think i saw a second hand copy on ebay for 30 quid once.
GMC
greeble
Posted 1:21 AM 15/10/08
There needs to be typing of the dead on psn. The ps3 already lets you use usb or bluetooth keyboards. I would buy that so hard.
greeble
CockroachMan
Posted 1:21 AM 15/10/08
We certainly don't see stuff like Typing of the Dead and Math Blasters, but a lot of more "serious" educational software is spreading specially on the Wii and DS. Brain Age, Big Brain Academy, the whole "Coach" series on the DS.. and frankly, I think that's a better approach.
CockroachMan
Robling
Posted 1:18 AM 15/10/08
@Robling:
Regardless to that though, they all made some pretty good points. I'm all for educational games, I loved those as a kid. Kids of this generation would probably love them too.
Robling
Robling
Posted 1:17 AM 15/10/08
Multerer needs to think up a few original lines, he keeps re-using the same ones. Am I imagining this?
Robling
Axel
Posted 1:16 AM 15/10/08
@jpneiswi:
I agree... I ended up reading mostly Kaigler and Koller only.
If they don't have concise answers, better admitting it than talking BS.
Axel
Xer0Ph0kus
Posted 1:15 AM 15/10/08
@jpneiswi: I was going to say the same things. What I got from these questions was.
Nintendo: We have brain age and crossword games
Sony: We have a ten year cycle so there is plenty of opportunities for us to be great.
MS: NXE...All disease will be cured Nov 19
Xer0Ph0kus
jpneiswi
Posted 1:05 AM 15/10/08
Man, Multerer runs his mouth a lot...sheesh
jpneiswi
sirmarcelot
Posted 1:04 AM 15/10/08
typing of dead rocks
sirmarcelot
Llost
Posted 2:26 AM 15/10/08
Well MS seems to focus on university education, charity and XNA games to allow the community to make there own educational games
Sony seems to rely on a littlebigplanet sales pitch at the end and eyetoy but does also put PSP's in schools and stuff along with folding@home
Nintendo has opened up the educational market with brain training, cooking stuff and gives to charities but
none of them actively make educational games themselves. So that's the summary for everyone.
Llost
billnabors65
Posted 2:25 AM 15/10/08
Thank you for spurring this discussion, Brian. More attention needs to be given to the edutainment software space, especially as the previous generation of gamers grows up and has kids.
billnabors65
furiku
Posted 2:22 AM 15/10/08
@greeble: Same goes for the Wii and 360. All current gen offerings have usb keyboard support. And I'm with you, typing of the dead was one of those games that on paper, sucked, but in actual terms was great!
furiku
MelodyKitn
Posted 2:17 AM 15/10/08
Blast, you stole my brain and found my thoughts, me and the man were just talking about this the other day and I was wondering what happened to all the neat fun and click edutainment games, the interesting stuff like Carmen Sandiego that tried to hide the fact it was a teaching game. They used to practically throw these games at us in magazine demos and whatnot.
MelodyKitn
kylenalepa
Posted 2:15 AM 15/10/08
@Lurk No More: I would totally buy The Typing of the Dead on XBLA. And if they made an original one based off of, say, The House of the Dead 4? That would be amazing. Do USB keyboards work with the Xbox 360, though?
kylenalepa
beanerific!
Posted 2:14 AM 15/10/08
@beanerific!: My kingdom for an edit button...
beanerific!
beanerific!
Posted 2:13 AM 15/10/08
All three of them seemed to dance around the questions at some point during the process of answering questions - as if they made them fidget uncomfortably in real life while answering them.
The answers from Microsoft and Sony were very disappointing - they have next to nothing in this department, and don't seem as if they feel that it would be worth the effort to encourage expansion in this area. To be fair, I don't blame them since it's not their key demographic. I mean, what parent in their right mind would purchase a console for several hundred dollars (especially with the economy in shambles for the moment and forseeable future) when they could purchase a Leapster or Fisher Price product for significantly less?
As one who has worked on several "edutainment" titles (ie: Fisher Price and Leapster), the one thing that bothers me about the latest generator of educational software is that it seems to pander more than I remember the titles of my childhood, holding kids hands and doing much of the work for them as well as softening the blow of questions answered incorrectly. Is this the state of schools these days as well? It's been a while since I stepped foot inside a grade 5 classroom.
It's my opinion that this impedes intuitive reactions and the development of common sense, since most of the work is done for the child. Maybe my parents and my teachers were just mean when I was younger, but something they did must have worked.
Um, at least I think it did...
beanerific!
Pablo-naut
Posted 2:47 AM 15/10/08
I think that it would be more interesting to have games that instead of testing your education, they build upon it. Brain age doesn't really teach you anything it just forces you to get good at the activities presented to raise your score(or lower it?). I've learned to save the world but, mastery of trigonometry still escapes me. I'm not going to say anymore because I'm going to do this game myself.
-prepare to enjoy
Pablo-naut
Grave
Posted 2:46 AM 15/10/08
@kylenalepa: Oh! And there's TotD2 in Japan, based on HotD3. I assume it's a PC title, but I'm not positive. Anyone want to fill in the blanks on that?
Grave
Grave
Posted 2:45 AM 15/10/08
@kylenalepa: Nope, at least, not at this point in time. For some reason MS didn't want it, and yet they work on Wii and PS3. TotD on either would be quite acceptable to me though.
Grave
Daisuash
Posted 2:38 AM 15/10/08
I don´t know why i read "Adultainment", then after reading it, i was sad...
Daisuash
Llost
Posted 2:38 AM 15/10/08
@beanerific!: I'd say Sony and MS weren't dissapointing. This is a business as the MS guy (or maybe it was the Sony guy) admitted but when it comes to education MS is clearly focused on supporting university education such as computer science rather than learning through gaming. XNA and funding for uni's were two examples. Sony on the other hand works with Plato to get PSP's used as educational tools and in hospitals while also doing folding@home to help research on diseases.
I actually believe it's Nintendo that's done the least. Sure educational games are more common on there consoles but they don't really do anything themselves other than charity.
Llost
DARTH_TIGRIS
Posted 3:11 AM 15/10/08
It's funny how fanboy wars even show up in comments to a story like this.
As several have mentioned, all 3 touted their own initiatives over and over (the questions sort of called for that, though) and proved that they don't have any educational gaming solutions that they are actively pursuing as console manufacturers and first party developers. Still XBLA/XNA, Wiiware and maybe PSN (its been really restrictive on the types of games released on it) do allow the best distribution for educational gaming in history. We'll see how that plays out for the rest of this gen ...
DARTH_TIGRIS
Protector one
Posted 3:11 AM 15/10/08
Wordy interview is wordy! Didn't you tell the interviewees in advance that this was going online in raw form?
Protector one
zoesch
Posted 3:05 AM 15/10/08
Again, I don't want to speak to the overall console strategy, but at least I know Multerer can copy and paste like a pro. Whether he has a responsibility or not to do so that means he'll keep intentionally parroting about games that have an educational focus like "City Rain," "Future Flow" and "Clean Up" which were all created teams of university students to teach concepts of environmental sustainability when Xbox LIVE Community Games launches as part of the new Xbox Experience this holiday.
Multerer-tron PR BOT V1.01 sign off...
C:\>
zoesch
Leanid
Posted 3:01 AM 15/10/08
@Llost: But learning through gaming is what the questions covered. They were asked about their games and consoles and types of educational entertainment was available. Outside organizations were only mentioned because they still wanted to sound good without answering.
Leanid
Llost
Posted 2:59 AM 15/10/08
@Pablo-naut: There's a new cooking instruction game coming to the DS that teaches you new recipes and how to cook some food. That sort of works for what your saying but it's only for cooking.
Llost
Xaif
Posted 2:57 AM 15/10/08
Lol I misread "My French Coach" as "My Friend Coach."
For educational software I think it would be best in theory for them to keep them WiiWare/XBLM/PSN titles to reduce cost and remove the need to change disks (which is ideal for the classroom). However the intended audience for educational titles probably don't even know these online stores exist...
Xaif
Chrysalis
Posted 2:55 AM 15/10/08
Alright...post a picture like that, and I can't help myself:
Why the HELL hasn't Sega localized Typing of the Dead 2? I NEED it.
The first game actually taught me to touch-type; I'm eternally grateful. But now I need more hilarious puns to type under the threat of chainsaw zombies.
Chrysalis
subterfunk
Posted 2:50 AM 15/10/08
"We're still in the relatively early days of the current generation of consoles, and when you consider that PS3 will have a 10-year lifecycle, it takes time before secondary applications start to take shape."
BLAH BLAH BLAH.... We basically just want Typing of the Dead. And we all know about the Dreamcast's lifecycle! That game came out right away...
From their answers above, it seems Nintendo is winning the educational race, Microsoft has a lot of potential, and Sony is going to start in 6 years. I guess both the DS and the PSP have educational games, but my hands cramp up with both so I wouldn't know.
Dear Videogame Dudes - Educational games are always good to have so kids can convince their parents to buy them a system. I remember my brother and I throwing in the "but Sega Genesis has that one Barbie game" comment to trick my parents one Christmas. Hmm maybe that's more girly than educational. Time to hit submit.
subterfunk
Gunnz
Posted 3:36 AM 15/10/08
@Grave: Um... My USB keyboard seems to work fine on my XBox 360.
Gunnz
KINGZ
Posted 3:35 AM 15/10/08
Multerer is worried about saying the wrong thing, he keeps stating "Whether we have a responsibility or not,"
As winners go for best wording
1st Kaigler, not bad
2nd Koller, relied to much and in the past
3rd Multerer, to damn long.
KINGZ
Muffin_Man
Posted 3:31 AM 15/10/08
Ah, this is my favorite kind of feature. I learned something, even. (ironicly)
I don't think its far-fetched for Nintendo to try to educational thing before to long. They are all about innovation and apparently quite aware of the Success Ubisoft enjoys with its 'Coach'. games. Maybe they could make a big, white wii-mote add on to go with it?
Also, isn't it true that there are DSs in Japanese schools? Maybe a similar model could one day be used in schools here as well, is its showing promise there.
Sony and Microsoft still seem like they are into the usual flow of things, waiting for a developer to release the next big guy-with-guns game that'll make them another several million dollars. But having the XNA guy answer the questions kind of shows Microsoft's willingness to see if the genre will grow into this console generation. Also, I don't know what PLATO is, but as long as Sony is trying, then thats cool.
Muffin_Man
Pablo-naut
Posted 3:22 AM 15/10/08
@Llost: yea thats more like it, stuff with practical real world application. Can you imagine in the back of your class text book you get a cd with a game that isn't just crappy test software but a game with a.i. teachers that never get tired of re-explaining the same thing over and over again and can teach you multiple ways of solving the same problems? every genre can be customized to teach you something so the possibilities are infinite.
Pablo-naut
mtora83
Posted 3:22 AM 15/10/08
@njhardcoreguy:Hahaha... and a story.
mtora83
Llost
Posted 3:21 AM 15/10/08
@Leanid: I agree but none of them really make educational games so the questions don't apply that much.
the question I most focused on was the 'The concept of corporate social responsibility argues that a company should consider the interests of society in their business decisions, to go beyond basic obligations and on occasion do something for the greater good. Do you think that concept pertains to the gaming industry as well?'
And they all (through different methods) have done some good but when it boils down to whether they've individually made a big effort on making games educational then none have made educational games it seems MS and Sony (with MS using XNA in universities for free and Sony trying to put PSP's in classes and actively working with Plato) have done more than Nintendo who doesn't have any real movement of getting DS's in schools or educational games
Llost
Ryodestined
Posted 4:04 AM 15/10/08
Interesting. It sounds like they just need to be profit-proven before they invest any serious cash into it.
Ryodestined
Grave
Posted 4:04 AM 15/10/08
@Gunnz: Guess I had outdated info! Glad to hear it, there didn't seem to be any reason they shouldn't support it, yet that's what I was hearing often some time ago.
Grave
steve
Posted 4:01 AM 15/10/08
I'm going to guess the reason there aren't more edutainment games is that they aren't profitable now. Expectations are higher because the educational games would now have to compete with "real" games and the great graphics.
steve
Llost
Posted 3:54 AM 15/10/08
@Pablo-naut: Yeah I agree, games could become fun and interactive education tools which would be available anytime and (with handhelds) anywhere. Now that is good teaching but the only problem is that educational software is under supported.
Llost
weatheredclown
Posted 3:48 AM 15/10/08
I think that Multerer's responses were the most media friendly... For a magazine, any one of these responses might have needed to stand on their own.
Once I read
"Koller
Yes, see above."
I completely wrote off that guy as not taking this seriously.
weatheredclown
pouls29
Posted 4:55 AM 15/10/08
@Robling: I agree, but so does Nintendo.
Do you have educational games? Brain Age
Will you be creating more? Brain Age 3
What are you doing after work? Brain Age
pouls29
Lla_Med_Redrum
Posted 4:52 AM 15/10/08
Koller
Yes, see above.
Lla_Med_Redrum
DarkNight_DS
Posted 4:52 AM 15/10/08
@Brian Cecente: This site is so up and down on what it stands behind. One day it hates all things educational and then the next it loves them. The Brain training games etc. have been seen by many as the "end of gaming as we know it". What point are you trying to make? Hasn't the DS proven that these games are highly profitable and that developers are and will make those types of games?
DarkNight_DS
infestedDemon
Posted 4:36 AM 15/10/08
@Lurk No More: I'd so buy it again for the Xbox 360, even though I still have it on my computer :P
infestedDemon
ese
Posted 4:58 AM 15/10/08
@sirmarcelot: I second this notion
ese
tr67
Posted 5:43 AM 15/10/08
@Grumpz®: Well if Dad already has a console, a game is only a $30-$50 investment. Leapster and VTech systems plus "smartridges" run up the bill much quicker. And you can't take the games back to Gamestop for trade-in when your kid gets bored w/the whole concept.
tr67
relic1980
Posted 5:24 AM 15/10/08
@GMC: I can believe it. I bought this years ago, when it was marked down for 4.99 at Electronics Boutique (now Gamestop). Late in 2006 I decided to put it (used of course) on EBay and got $62 for it. Even I was shocked.
relic1980
get2sammyb
Posted 6:18 AM 15/10/08
@sirmarcelot: I can't find my copy of that game. I REALLY wish I could find it.
get2sammyb
Zorantor
Posted 6:05 AM 15/10/08
Anyone else remember those Sesame Street games for NES?
I think I was three or four years old when I got those and I thought they were awesome. They don't quite hold up today, but, you know...I'm not four anymore either.
There was even a platformer starring The Count that had actual recordings of his voice counting and laughing.
Zorantor
Zorantor
Posted 6:02 AM 15/10/08
@mtora83: And waggle-based minigames.
Zorantor
Zorantor
Posted 6:00 AM 15/10/08
@jackal888: I'll agree that educational games certainly have their place. Personally, I'm not so fond of Brain Age, but I can certainly recognize that it's a great idea. And they keep selling, so apparently someone out there likes it.
DS is doing really well overall as THE platform for educational games and tools. The Coach series is great, plus there are some great translation tools out for it, though I'm not sure how many have been released in English-speaking territories.
And in regards to Sony, you're right that it would be pretty cool if they did some type of educational tie-in with Folding@home.
Zorantor
ssoltero
Posted 5:59 AM 15/10/08
@Talryyn: Bravo! I really like the idea of using LBP as an educational tool. That really got my gears moving. I'm gonna look into making something for my daughter. (When shes a bit older.)
ssoltero
Kenofthedead
Posted 5:58 AM 15/10/08
@furiku: I recently found the PS2 version of Typing of the Dead and I was excited to be able to play it again.
Then I found out the Keyboard for PS2 doesn't work on the PS3 at all. Damn them.
Kenofthedead
ssoltero
Posted 5:56 AM 15/10/08
ToD was really cool, but I would have to argue that Mario Typing was a better tool to learn typing with. Why Nintendo hasn't release Mario Typing for the Wii is beyond my comprehension.
ssoltero
Zorantor
Posted 5:54 AM 15/10/08
@pouls29: True, they keep going back to Brain Age.
But is that so odd, considering that the topic is educational games, and Brain Age is the most popular educational series out there right now?
Zorantor
lllusionx
Posted 5:53 AM 15/10/08
@mtora83: and sephiroth, solid snake, mario luigi and master cheif.
lllusionx
lllusionx
Posted 5:52 AM 15/10/08
little big planet can tech high level mechanics with good physics....and POSSIBLY WATER!.
but in all truth, all wii games are basicly learning, not only because of titles like brain age and wario ware(not really) but because of the inconsistancy in how the wii mote's gaming mechanics work.
lllusionx
tr67
Posted 5:49 AM 15/10/08
@beanerific!: Agreed, they all skirted the issue. I'm suprised the Nintendo guy didn't mention Professor Layton, Crosswords or Picross. I learned so much from the Carmen Sandiego games. I can name every moon in the solar system. Whoever properly revived that franchise would make bank.
tr67
Parsifal
Posted 5:47 AM 15/10/08
@ese: I still have mine.
Parsifal
Pablo-naut
Posted 8:07 AM 15/10/08
@Llost: like i said "i'm going to do this game". maybe i'll even get the peace prize for reforming education (*_*)! im starting small with a puzzle game but eventually i'll have the money to make a graphically advanced console(maybe even online) educational epic. People spend 80hrs beating final fantasy games so imagine if people put that same amount of time into bettering themselves education wise? it would save the public school system.
Pablo-naut
DukeOfPwn
Posted 7:52 AM 15/10/08
@sirmarcelot: Agreed, though I'm not sure how many parents would feel the same way...
DukeOfPwn
boopadoo
Posted 7:12 AM 15/10/08
Well that told me nothing...
boopadoo
DioBrando
Posted 8:20 AM 15/10/08
Multerer would like to remind you that XNA.
Meanwhile, Kaigler gets to kick back and Brain Age.
DioBrando
Gunloc
Posted 8:16 AM 15/10/08
@njhardcoreguy: This is what I want to. Make it like one of those hunting games but MORE fun.
Gunloc
popadophalis
Posted 9:43 AM 15/10/08
Question?
[Nintendo] Gives a quick answer
[Sony] Gives a reasonably concise replay
[Microsoft] 1000 word essay detailing *everything* about the microsoft strategy
popadophalis
AstralSymphony
Posted 10:36 AM 15/10/08
@Weegi: Why not have both?
AstralSymphony
AstralSymphony
Posted 10:35 AM 15/10/08
@Len Bias Cocaine Surplus: Dude I have no qualms with pirating any game no longer in production. When my only legal option is to pay exorbitant sums of money to random people clearing out their closets for decades-old games (ZOMG pre-Morrowind Elder Scrolls), I unabashedly take the illegal route.
AstralSymphony
AstralSymphony
Posted 10:30 AM 15/10/08
@CockroachMan: That's a crap approach. I loved Math Blaster, Reader Rabbit, and The Cluefinders because they were fun and told interesting stories. I would have loved The Typing of the Dead as well, had I been allowed to play it. I was growing up today, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with these dry, serious, and storyless educational games; they would bore me to tears.
AstralSymphony
AstralSymphony
Posted 10:44 AM 15/10/08
@Grave: Well, USB keyboards are supported for typing only. I have a G1 G15 in front of my TV, and I use it to type messages. When I want to actually play with a mouse and keyboard, I have to resort to my XFPS XIM setup, which tricks the 360 into thinking I'm using a controller. To make one, you have to connect an XFPS 360 to your Xbox 360, connect an old wired 360 controller and a PS2 controller to the XFPS 360, cut the cable of the PS2 controller, solder a mini-circuitboard to the end of the cable, plug the USB connector on the mini-circuitboard into a PC (I use my laptop) and boot up the translation software. Once done, enjoy nearly flawless mouse and keyboard emulation on your 360!
AstralSymphony
bird1988
Posted 11:14 AM 15/10/08
@beanerific!:
The microsoft and sony interveiws kept repeating themself, especially microsoft. They stated the Dream Cup and Play-Game-Change about 4 times in the interview when Crecente asked them about the library and their support of educational games on their system. I think Sony and Microsoft need to licence the ports of some educational games Nintendo has on their library, especially the ones in Japan. There are many educational and sim games for sale there, and even their regular games teach the kids better Japanese (through voice with sub text) and about Japanese culture and thinking. The two companies could get the licensing and agreements to sell the games in America and the rest of the world, and a lot of them would be really marketable if wrote about and promoted. Think about it sony and msoft.
beenerific says:
The answers from Microsoft and Sony were very disappointing - they have next to nothing in this department, and don't seem as if they feel that it would be worth the effort to encourage expansion in this area. To be fair, I don't blame them since it's not their key demographic. I mean, what parent in their right mind would purchase a console for several hundred dollars (especially with the economy in shambles for the moment and forseeable future) when they could purchase a Leapster or Fisher Price product for significantly less?
Yeah i think your right on nintendo having more learning and learning integrated games than microsoft and sony. Microsoft and Sony are missing a whole market for these kinds of games. Even if they could include it into their regular games, I think they would be better off for growth of their user base.
Nintendo has more games in this area, especially in Japan's localization sale.In their Sony and Msoft, you could be selling more and making more profit if you had these kinds of games in your library. They're very easy to make. Japan has a lot of games like this that aren't sold here and could be around the world and in the new emerging markets.
bird1988
bird1988
Posted 11:11 AM 15/10/08
The microsoft and sony interveiws kept repeating themself, especially microsoft. They stated the Dream Cup and Play-Game-Change about 4 times in the interview when Crecente asked them about the library and their support of educational games on their system. I think Sony and Microsoft need to licence the ports of some educational games Nintendo has on their library, especially the ones in Japan. There are many educational and sim games for sale there, and even their regular games teach the kids better Japanese (through voice with sub text) and about Japanese culture and thinking. The two companies could get the licensing and agreements to sell the games in America and the rest of the world, and a lot of them would be really marketable if wrote about and promoted. Think about it sony and msoft.
beenerific says:
The answers from Microsoft and Sony were very disappointing - they have next to nothing in this department, and don't seem as if they feel that it would be worth the effort to encourage expansion in this area. To be fair, I don't blame them since it's not their key demographic. I mean, what parent in their right mind would purchase a console for several hundred dollars (especially with the economy in shambles for the moment and forseeable future) when they could purchase a Leapster or Fisher Price product for significantly less?
Yeah i think your right on nintendo having more learning and learning integrated games than microsoft and sony. Microsoft and Sony are missing a whole market for these kinds of games. Even if they could include it into their regular games, I think they would be better off for growth of their user base.
Nintendo has more games in this area, especially in Japan's localization sale.In their Sony and Msoft, you could be selling more and making more profit if you had these kinds of games in your library. They're very easy to make. Japan has a lot of games like this that aren't sold here and could be around the world and in the new emerging markets.
bird1988
BunnyForce
Posted 12:34 PM 15/10/08
They think little kids don't play video games. That's why they make more violent games. They think its all just teens and adults.
BunnyForce
dawimp523
Posted 12:33 PM 15/10/08
@GMC: I believe you can play Typing of the Dead on GameTap if you're a Gold subscriber.
dawimp523
pjcard
Posted 11:27 PM 15/10/08
I think the most interesting thing about this was seeing how each representitive managed to use each question to promote the same theme:
Nintendo: Didn't we do well with XXX Training?
Sony: We had stuff on the PSP and PS2!
Microsoft: XNA XNA XNA!!!
Personally, I think calling Brain Training and its like "educational" is pushing it a litte.
pjcard
Alistar
Posted 3:49 AM 15/10/08
Nintendo is probably the only company that has anything worthwhile for younger children that aren't part of the 'hardcore' demographic. The DS is a great console that has great potential for use as an edutainment platform, and more third party developers are creating for it.
My brother recently won a raffle where he received Smart Girls Playhouse for the DS, which is supposed to be for kids 3+. It's like a watered down version of Brain Age but its pretty cute. What's surprising I think is the speed at which my niece can pick up this title and play (with a little guidance of course). But companies like the ones mentioned in the above article need to develop something more along these lines as videogames and interactive entertainment in general have become ingrained in American culture and is a logical next step.
Whatever happened to titles like Carmen Sandiego and the like? I think these huge companies should be a bit more socially responsible and take on this cause, and help publishers that want to develop titles in this realm do so.
Alistar
TanyaWenal
Posted 1:15 AM 15/10/08
"I mean, what parent in their right mind would purchase a console for several hundred dollars (especially with the economy in shambles for the moment and forseeable future) when they could purchase a Leapster or Fisher Price product for significantly less?" Because the Leapfrog stuff is complete and utter garbage! Most of the video game systems aimed at children are sub-Genesis level hardware and churned out solely to make a quick buck with whatever cartoon license they recently snagged. You get better games on the Nick Jr. website than you do on any of that Trash. But what that quote and nearly everyone in this thread seems to be missing is that the dichotomy of "parents vs. kids" doesn't necessarily reflect our society anymore. I imagine the whole reason this conversation was started was that Brian couldn't find any decent games that his kids could play. He loves games. He already owns several powerful game systems. Why can't they just make software (educational is great, but I'd settle for just about anything) aimed at his kids age and skill level? Why does he have to go out and buy a separate sub-par system just for his kids to play. I know that's what I'm asking myself. Kids and parents want to play games TOGETHER! My 5 year old LOVES playing video games, but despite the Wiimote being the perfect input device for her, most of the games are aimed at teens and up. Much like comic books, it's nearly impossible to find games that are actually made for kids anymore. And yet, that's the age where all of us got hooked on them for life.
TanyaWenal
jpneiswi
Posted 11:51 PM 15/10/08
@Kenofthedead: Wait! This game actually exists?! I thought it was a cheesy pun
jpneiswi
jpneiswi
Posted 11:51 PM 15/10/08
@CockroachMan: I remember playing the sesame street for the original nintendo game forever as a kid at my grandparents house. The music was great and the games were actually fun...I think i need to go find an emulator for some nice nestalgia
jpneiswi
crimson55
Posted 3:48 AM 16/10/08
Why can't they just make software (educational is great, but I'd settle for just about anything) aimed at his kids age and skill level? Why does he have to go out and buy a separate sub-par system just for his kids to play. I know that's what I'm asking myself. Kids and parents want to play games TOGETHER! My 5 year old LOVES playing video games, but despite the Wiimote being the perfect input device for her, most of the games are aimed at teens and up. Much like comic books, it's nearly impossible to find games that are actually made for kids anymore. And yet, that's the age where all of us got hooked on them for life.
crimson55
BananaPip
Posted 9:21 AM 16/10/08
@jpneiswi:
So true. It's like he HAS to advertise XNA and XBOX Live in every answer.
BananaPip
ItsBlueNose
Posted 12:16 AM 16/10/08
@get2sammyb:
Try eBay my friend. I tried it and it was fun. I wonder why there is not games that are like typing of the dead.
Maybe Call of learning 4. Modern Studies?
ItsBlueNose
MarianDampyre
Posted 8:45 PM 15/10/08
@Talryyn:
@Talryyn: Bravo indeed! I've already been planning some easy (death is not an option) levels for LBP for my 4 year old. As an aside, a fun (not necessarily educational) PS3 game is the one with the ducks in the big tubs (from the PSN). My son really loves that one.
MarianDampyre
furiku
Posted 1:47 AM 17/10/08
@jpneiswi: No no no my dear boy. This is a masterpiece. Or, a master piece, depending on how you look at it.
furiku