That's ridiculous, a depiction of a destroyed Washington D.C. shouldn't be censored by the ESRB. I agree on that "power trip" comment because that's certainly what it looks like to me.

I mean come on, does the ESRB really believe people will take offense to something that is clearly a FAKE ad for a video game? There is absolutely nothing wrong with advertising your game with exaggerated imagery to make an impact and catch people's attention.

This is complete BS.

If it was up to me at one of the publishers the ESRB bullies, I'd sue them for over-censoring us.

JuanMontoya

@ps3pwner: How true. Once I met a mom in a store who thought that the ESRB ratings told you how difficult the game was.

Maxyboy13

Someone needs to grab these boys by the bollocks and set them straight.

DukeOfPwn

Invisible Wall is AWESOME. I've been following the podcast since it's conception.

PsycheE

The ESRB must be composed of the only people on Earth who haven't seen Independence Day.

+ Watch video

Spartan1308™

The ESRB was actually putting pressure on "publisher x" so that they would tell Gametrailers to remove the footage. At least that's what they said in the podcast.

dobilay

I don't mind that the ESRB exists and I think a rating system is needed but I don't like what they've asked GT and other places to do. Fallout 3 is an amazing game with a since of style and comedy despite the destroyed ruins of DC and it's general abysmal setting. Are ads also now corrupting the youth or should we just decide to censor anything related to video games now, I certainly don't see film looked at in the same aspect.

Anza

@Yonderboy: No, ESRB wouldn't be that specific they'd say "Needs more colored arcs in the sky"

Shykin

ESRB needs a reform. Badly, like a complete axing of staff and replaced with people that like games and will rate objectively. They don't even cross check their current ratings to their past ones to make sure they're consistent. It just feels like they don't take their job seriously.

REPOST: Posted it as a comment to a comment not a stand alone...

Shykin

@Shykin: oops this was suppose to be its own comment. Whoops -.-;;

Shykin

Oh come on, the ads for fallout 3 aren't nearly as terrifying as the poster for independence day.

jwesburn

@apz600: What about Cloverfield's depiction of New York being torn apart?

Isn't that just as bad as a destroyed Washington D.C.?

Completely ridiculous censorship. Oh well.

Apparatus Ex Somnium Design

whats funny about the esrb is that most parents dont even understand its rating system thus rendering it useless.

ps3pwner

ESRB needs a reform. Badly, like a complete axing of staff and replaced with people that like games and will rate objectively. They don't even cross check their current ratings to their past ones to make sure they're consistent. It just feels like they don't take their job seriously.

Shykin

Ah. **** the ESRB and **** the MPAA too. What a bunch of unconstitutional bullshit.

serotoninzero

Thanks for posting this.

I thought for sure that when the ESRB started rating things based on user generated and unlocked content, we were living in a world of utter insanity, but now they've taken it a step further. Media outlets and developers already have a tainted relationship because of pressures from publishers. To further complicate that with another bureaucratic entity is harming the industry as a whole. At what point will the ESRB start creepy moves with, for instance, Microsoft's XNA club? Obviously, we're seeing a restrictive attitude in Little Big Planet--would that arbitrary erasure without warning be happening if not for pressures to maintain a rating?

deathbunny

@Yonderboy: To the mod mobile!

apz600

@apz600: Obviously thinking alike on this issue I see. Very nice.

SgtElias

Destroyed DC = bad taste: Maybe
Telling people how to advertise their products: Ridiculous

Zensation

ESRB needs to be shutdown they are useless.

Unstop

Fallout 3 needs 27.4% more rainbows.

Yonderboy

*Watches Independence Day*

Yep, I've seen the white house destroyed before.

Jage

This is freaking ridiculous. God forbid anyone gets upset at anything ever. These moves towards not offending anyone are a joke. Sometimes you just need to say fuck who gets upset, this is what I think or do or say.

SgtElias

Fuck. That.
What about ad's for horror movies? Should those be pulled from theaters and television? They're "scary" as well to some people.
This is ridiculous.

apz600

ESRB just helps, they treaten us with the axe at Gamestop and I realize the good intention but a good majority of parents dont care at all. Oh and Fallout 3 needs to get its glitches fixed dammit im stuck at the end and I cant move no matter what

InsaneMoogle

@Spartan1308™: the dog at the end is so classic.

lamebrain

The only thing I'd be mad about is the inaccuracy of DC. Nukes of 2077 would have glassed the entire area.

Artdeux

@Jage: +1.

I still have the hologram thingy that came with the dvd. I can watch the white house blow up over and over with just a flick of the wrist!

lamebrain

@PsycheE: *Looks at wrist* -Data- World Map- Capitol Hill

PsycheE

But, but Will Smith?, how would he have been a super star if a white house or two didn't decimate? Its super duper realistic just like Fallout you know...

I am going to give these people a peace of my mind.

PsycheE

How exactly does one become a member of this board? How did these yokels manage to set themselves up as the arbiters of deceny?

qhue

Censorship. It's censorship.

GodelEscherBach

This is exactly the reason why they needed to keep the Fallout series in California. No one gives a damn about California.

FMAngel

Invisible walls is brilliant.

Kukuk2

How could the movie Independence Day walk away with an exploding White House then? Geez, stupid ESRB

Alex_Mexico

@SgtElias: unfounately here in america, we have lawyers... and surely they would love to get their hands on a lawsuit against some big company.

phrequency

What I don't get is why are games singled out most of the time? Is it because it's the current hot topic? Easier to sensationalize?

I mean Fallout's ads were that offensive? More offensive than say a horror movie's trailer being shown on TV? More offensive than any news segment wherein they show dead bodies or actual wars going on within the world?

excaliburps

Did anyone know the original white house was small and was destroyed? The white house we have today is #2.

zkotaku

@apz600: If created and released for download, the rainbow mod should cause the Fallout 3 ESRB rating to instantly drop down to T, based on the Oblivion precedent that mods count as content reviewed under the rating.

mronoc

@Chao1111:

i think if if it's possible one place then it's entirely possible in another.

snapdoodle

@Apparatus Ex Somnium Design:

Exactly what I was thinking. There are so many Doomsday movies nowadays. Jeez, at least in Fallout 3 the White House was still standing, in Independence Day the whole thing got blown up...

GoldRenamon

Don't censor movies or anything, just video games.

kagebutsu

I've got two words for the ESRB:
MAN UP.

echelon11

@Indypunk: The Hot Coffee incident left them neutered.

RosettaCoppard

@Apparatus Ex Somnium Design: I think the difference is, one could be a reality, the other couldn't.

Chao1111

What happened to the ESRB's balls. It used to have such balls.

Indypunk

@DELICIOUS BUNNY: Just like in Civ!

Legion329

I'd really like to hear something from someone on the inside of the ESRB...

chaos242

I'm reminded of I Am Legend.

It portrayed post apocalyptic New York. And no one cared.

spindoctorzen

This can not stand! You can't pull advertising for being scary. Whats next? Pulling all advertising? Then what? Then there is no work because the majority of this country is comprised of people making useless stuff to sell you or people selling you the useless stuff that other people made. What then ESRB? What then? We will be living Fallout 3 not just playing it. And I for one am looking at my neighbor's hind quarters, listening to the ink spots, and thinking yum.

Illist

@apz600: I think I may upload the trailer on youtube now.

stickcult

I agree with the poop slinging against the ESRB. This is really ridonclulous and frankly stupid of them to do so. I also agree with the comment about Cloverfield and the ones of Independence Day. Oh no, the ads for them should be taken away too, same with the trailers!!

ESRB really needs reform, like, actually playing the games and not just watching the trailers.

Wait, that doesn't make sense. They said they wanted the trailers taken off for this game, why not others? If they don;t play the game or watch the trailers, how will they rate it?

Meh, the rating system is borken and broken anyway.

RtFusion

@lamebrain: It's so pretty. Oh god I need to see this movie again...

DELICIOUS BUNNY

@DELICIOUS BUNNY: Oh yeah, at the end of the movie, some country in Africa managed to take down one of the ships, WITH SPEARS AND BOWS AND ARROWS!

DELICIOUS BUNNY

@RosettaCoppard: That was good, but it would have been better if you said "Someone spilled Hot Coffee on their laps."

smartboydan hates college

@lamebrain:
Why did the Aliens only attack the USA.

Just guess we did our WAR on Terror against them only.

Japan is fine.

DELICIOUS BUNNY

@Chao1111: MONSTERS ARE REAL. I saw one hiding under that nuke thar...

DELICIOUS BUNNY

I like Invisible Walls, but I was annoyed about this. I underrstand they're predicament, and if I were them, I would've done the same thing, up to mentioning it in the podcast. Do I think we need better leadership in the ESRB? Of course. Do I think we need to get rid of it? No. Remember all the stupid politicians? Admittedly, with foreign policy and the economy the way it is, politicians aren't likely to berate videogames. But the structure of the institution is sound. It's the choices of those running the institution that's screwed up. Rather than calling for a new rating system, why not call for new leadership. It's a subtle, but game-changing shift in focus that I think is necessary going forward.

AllegraStreit

@mronoc: Exactly. That was my plan, I would probably throw in super mutant leprechauns and pots of gold.. maybe too much.
Although, there wouldn't be rainbows if we had nuclear winter, which has remained mysteriously absent from Fallout 3.

apz600

Clearly we need a ratings system, and I think the ESRB system works (or at least would work if parents weren't so moronic), but when they start taking it upon themselves to decide what means of advertisement is or is not appropriate for the publisher, and to rate user generated content, and not only rate the content, but lump it in the same rating with the retail version of the game as with Oblivion, they've clearly overstepped boundaries, they're as bad as the FCC at this point.

mronoc

@Unstop:

Hey now, that's hasty.

In an industry such as this, where ideas and concepts prove to be rather controversial, self regulation becomes essential when faced with the kind of ignorance that usually associates itself with anti-video gaming arguments and legislation.

This however, is going to far. A title has the right to advertise, especially one that the ESRB itself rated. If the subject matter is such a big deal, wheres the AO rating?

wef

@dowingba:
You have the cashflow, then yes. Yes you can.

Tizlor

OMG DESTROYED D.C. WITH THE WHITE HOUSE STILL PARTIALLY STANDING!?!?!?!?!? WTF IDIOTS TAKE THOSE ADS DOWN!! Oh, someone's finger getting cut off?(Saw), the white house being destroyed?(Indipendence Day), a body covered in wax melting?(House of Wax), go right ahead and put those ads up! Honestly, I'd rather games be rated by the same people who do the movie ratings. F3 might get an "R" but I'm almost 100% sure they wouldn't pull the ads. For crying out loud people, it's a GAME, FICTION, NOT REAL, IMAGINARY! If they don't censor movies and books like this, they shouldn't the video games.

SudeepaLaelap

Isn't ESRB compliance a voluntary thing? How is it that their power extends to advertising on someone's site? If it is just a "request" I don't think they really have to do anything. They should put a link on the page saying "Click here to see the Fallout 3 ad the ESRB doesn't want you to see!"

ShiningDark

@Kenninator: I thought the mother ship getting destroyed only made the other ships lose their shields. Someone still would have to drunkenly fly into the ...weak point for massive damage.

dowingba

@phrequency: You can sue someone for "offending" you now? Well, okay I know you can but you'd win the lawsuit? Really?

dowingba

This is complete and utter nonsense. Not to mention that te ESRB has no authority whatsoever to regulate anything. All ocmpliance is voluntary and unless htye can prove that Bethesda is knowingly advertising the game to children under the age the rating covers, they can't do dick. Not to mention that they have even less authority to do anything about fair use material created by folks other than the publisher.

wheezo

*posts advertisements for Fallout 3 everywhere*

vayseth

It's funny because White House is a common target for most sci-fi, post apocalyptic media in the first place. I mean.. Come on! Close Encounters of the Third Kind, circa 1977!

mr_dimsum

@DELICIOUS BUNNY:

The aliens did attack other countries, and also the ship only fell in africa because the mothership was destroyed.

Kenninator

Seriously, I know it's been mentioned but guys think about how many times we saw the White House get blown up when Independence Day was releasing.

EVERY TRAILER FOR THAT MOVIE HAS THAT SCENE.

ysleiro

@serotoninzero: Well, not really. The right to free speech is reduced significantly when you're making money off of it.

Legion329

@wef: The AO rating is part of the problem. Since NOBODY will carry an AO title, it has by defacto become a weapon the ESRB uses to force developers into toning down the game to family friendly or have it get an AO title and blocked from sells.

Azriel77

I agree, the ESRB needs to go ASAP. They must be made up of family groups because they sure as hell do not have any gamers in mind. If games had been movies, most of the M rated games would be hard pressed to get over a PG13! What a joke the ESRB is.

Azriel77

I fail to see any legal justification for this. Can anyone enlighten me?

RealmRPGer

@ShiningDark: And keep in mind, the ESRB can pull or bump a rating at any time. Hurrah....

HikariOblivion

@ShiningDark: Stores won't sell a game without an ESRB rating.

Or a game with an AO rating for that matter.

HikariOblivion

@PsycheE:
Me too!
grumpy is da man!

dmfamzo

That was one of the better episodes of the Invisible Walls too. And they're right. ESRB have become people looking to over-justify their jobs.

Frologic

@Jage:
Haha, that was the same exact thing I was thinking.

J0hnny-Kickass

@smartboydan hates college: It would have been just as good if you did.

Also, that's brilliant.

Last Face

@Tizlor: I could see it turning out to be like a Jackie Chiles type of deal and the client would end up with a modelling contract or a lifetime supply of ...Radaway or something.

dowingba

@PsycheE: Me too. ^^

DotDotDot

I'd like to think that if I headed the ESRB that I wouldn't pull shit like this, but humans are all about self preservation. The purpose of the ESRB is simply to be a scapegoat, so if the head of the ESRB was to ignore and issue like Hot Coffee or this advertisement scandal and it were to garner main stream media attention (like hot coffee did) then the head of the ESRB (and probably many more within the organization) would be at fault. In a time of such economic uncertainty no one wants to put their jobs at risk, so i'll mark this up as damage control on the ESRB side, because it is my personal philosophy that there are two sides to every story.

Then again, Fuck the ESRB, because I hate censorship.

P.S. I have to give a shout out to the ESRB for igniting a conversation about Independence Day (adds to netflix), because it's been far too long.

DTownsu

Apparently the ESRB live in a fantasy world where they fail to succumb to the fixation and realization that there is a tremendous difference between a game and reality.

acez2087

The sad thing to me is that I feel like everyone, most importantly U.S. citizens should spend a few hours walking the wasteland to catch a glimpse of what could become of the culmination of all the hate in this world.

To me, these ads say "everyone should walk around in Fallout 3 long enough to empathize with people scraping by each day among the corpses of their fellows, unlucky enough to survive the end of our way of life."

kidko

@Unstop:
The ESRB are usually in line with gamers in their actions and are a much better alternative than some government body that would established to control the content if the ESRB weren't here. They have way more experience in the games industry and are the best choice we've got right now.
That said, I'm absolutely against the axing of all these ads and videos just because they have some unsettling imagery in them. Trying to stop the showing of some official internet videos of Fallout 3 from being shown is just silly and a misuse of resources.
However, exploding over this issue, and calling the ESRB useless, the devil, or even worse than the FCC isn't going to solve anything right now.

Blah8

I agree with every thing they said. Why should they manipulate what videos a site is hosting, the controlling bastards. I hope that the ESRB is demolished soon. I don't agree with censorship, but if they have to do it, why are they editing free media? That totally goes against Freedom of Speech.

rpgking4

They should pull the ads. And replace the White House with ESRB headquarters.

NDub

The USK here in Germany makes the ESRB look very lenient. But it seems the ESRB are slowly dipping into that level of bullshit.

Seriously Duke Nukem 3D is banned here, but GTA, Dead Space, Fallout is not!? How does that make sense. In duke you shoot aliens and can shoot women. Doom is also Banned, haha, its like they never even bothered to re review the games, and just said ' welp, it was banned back in 96, so it should be banned today', of course in a german accent.

SO the ESRB may be bad, but there is always something worse.

Brennzky

@Artdeux: You have to remember that the 2077 in Fallout is the 2077 that was envisioned in the 50's, that's why you have vacuum tube computers using tapes as storage. The transistor never got invented, radiation mutates instead of killing and lasers are feasible as firearms.

Tieowbeijas

Makes me almost wanna find myself a Fat Man IRL and shoot ESRB with it. If the american players could stomach watching their capital got trashed just like IRL not so long ago, then the japanese can stomach a few nukes in game.

Kintama

I think this is a good idea. God knows I wet my bed after seeing a poster for I Am Legend.

acountddd

Guys, you don't understand. Independence Day was pre-9/11! That means it was from young fun innocent america!

Now that we are in a post "everything can kill you and probably will just for looking at it" world, we can't have anything that will make you show an emotion towards ANYTHING!

If you show emotion then the terrorists win

RageTowers

@DELICIOUS BUNNY: They must have been using V.A.T.S

Blates-

They want to create a whole nation of momma's boys...oOoOoOO, save me from myself ESRB!

Telekinesis123

@dowingba:

Drunk AND heroic, American Ex-Soldier Syle. ^^

fELIXADER

@Brennzky: What do you mean with "Fallout" is not? The German version of Fallout 2 has no children at all and Fallout 3 has no blood at all (let alone other gore effects). Despite it's rating as 18+/Adults only.

But you are right with Dead Space on the other hand: it got released totally uncut after the USK refused to rate it three times.

That makes no sense at all.

fabelt

@Alex_Mexico: Consequence of living in a post-9/11 world?

RomeoCrispinus

The ESRB should stick to rating the games, and stay out of advertising. What right do they have to tell publishers/developers how to advertise their game? And moreso, what right do they have to tell indepentant gaming sites what advertisements they can show!?

RomeoCrispinus

What with people in D.C. making such a big stink about the Uncle Sam promotion posters: Yeah, those ads were all over Metro Center. But I thought that they were a huge improvement over the fascist anti-PETA, anti-trial lawyer ads that they replaced.

Karoshi

I just can't remember how many times Hollywood has destroyed the vast majority of the cities of the whole planet by monsters, ovnis, aliens, asteroids, earthquakes, tornadoes, godzillas, king kongs, nuclear explosions, hurricanes, and so on...

alejo0121

The History of New Media = Snake Eating its own tail.

Just make a list of all the media you've consumed over your lifetime.

Books
Radio
Movies
TV
Comics
etc

Now games have their time in the hot topic arena. It's as if we (society) have to "haze in" the next big thing with political mumbo-jumbo, the token concerned parent organization and if your lucky a crazy lawyer from Florida.

It's perversely hilarious. We've put ratings on the boxes, that's not good enough. We've pressured retailers to card shoppers AND inform lazy parents that the game they're buying little Johnny is not for children ... AND that's not good enough.

Now this. I assume that the issue is super-violent trailers finding the fleshy supple minds of youngsters via the intertubes? Here's a hit folks don't let your kids use the internet without the use of proper parental tools (Comcast provides them, Xbox provides them etc), or if your too simple-minded to figure out how to set them up. Put the intertubes in whatever form it comes into your house in a central room (AKA family room) where the behavior, and subsequently the content they are viewing, of your young one can be observed at random.

Issues like this can be solved by taking a deep breath and thinking the issue through. I wish the ESRB had the same common conventional wisdom that most of "us" seem to display.

/rantoff

Number 6

Fuckin ESRB needs to lay off my Fallout 3.

OhNoItsGojira

While I'm not going to call for the ESRB's head (self regulation beats government intervention IMHO), this is ridiculous. As many have said, the White House and Capitol have been destroyed in movies for as long as there have been movies. So we can't show a fictitious DC devastated by nuclear war in ads now? I get the whole Post-9/11 sensitivity BS, but its 2008, not 2003.

Gray665

@PsycheE:

You mean you were listening to mommy and daddy podcast when they were having their special time? Or maybe you just meant inception, but I prefer to think it was the former.

rateoforange

@JuanMontoya: You say clearly fake ad, but there were several (respectable?) news outlets that ran that image as a 'Terrorist Simulation'.

shockwaver

Quickly. We should outlaw Independence Day!

It showed the white house going boom boom!

As well as Austin powers for the reason above.

CreativeCat89

@Jage: Actually, us Canadians have burnt the white house a few decades ago.

Hylian

Unfortunately, gaming has been always something believed to be for children, it was that way when the ESRB was created (with NIntendo dominance) and even when Sony started to market it like a more adult hobby, the new Nintendo dominance and his soccer mom/child focus is giving more fuel to the retarded way of thinking the ESRB has...

Daisuash

Well isn't that Bethesda's and not ESRB's right to ask for putting or pulling any trailers on certain websites? I am confused. GameTrailer replies though are some of the most immature things I've ever seen. What are they, like 10 years old? Show some dignity and professionalism dammit.

gencid

@Hylian: Well technically Canadians didn't burn the original White House down, we weren't Canada just yet. We were the Colony of Canada, so technically it was the settlers of Britain.

opt2not

@apz600: Fallout 3 is 200 years after nuclear winter.

Oh God, I want that rainbow and gold and leprechaun mod.

syafiqjabar

@Chao1111:

Says your perception!

EnigmaNemesis

Can someone help explain this to me. I was under the impression that the ESRB and the MPAA were just organizations that formed because people thought things (media) needed a rating system (pretty much so parents can be lazy and not actually look into what there kids are doing). But as I understand it, neither of them are governmental organizations. I'm confused on how they claim the have the power to force anyone to do anything. Or why anyone even enforces their "guidelines" -Codefire

SunandiniScuderi

It's time for the publishers to tell the ESRB to fuck themselves.

Akin

On some stations, to promote Saw 4 and 5, they played videos of Jigsaw staring and saying would you like to play a game, no warning at all. I still see them and they still scare the crap out of me. Now how is something like that allowed, but a fictional depiction of a ruined Washington gets censored?

ShachiLark

Hasn't anybody watched Independence Day or Die Hard 4? Both of those movies have scenes where the White House is destroyed.

YumaDawgkatt

@lamebrain: Check the article about H-games and find more interesting things you can do with a flick of the wrist (and clicking through 3 books worth of text lead-up)

ShamaDonkey

@zkotaku: dude only history majors remember the war of 1812...no prizes for guessing my specialty

SadhanGoogle

Yeah, are they kidding? Should Independence Day with Will Smith or the newer Cloverfield have been pulled from theaters?? Ridiculous

HectorNipperkin

No print ads for Fallout 3 were pulled. Where did you find that? The Metro ads in DC stayed up, right?

AikenWadger

@apz600: Those were blatantly movie posters, and the advertisements weren't shown nearly everywhere. They were almost exclusively in movie theaters and other venues where they made sense. People wouldn't see them unless they in some way invited it. The fallout posters were in the metro, not a game store, and in the city being depicted. And in the fallout posters, it isn't even entirely clear what is being advertised. My parents (I live in DC) didn't even realize it was a game until I came home with the game.

I'm not encouraging censorship, I'm encouraging smarter advertisement.

Kniobo

@Anza: Okay, now usually I'd agree with you. Censorship is generally distasteful, and should be avoided. But there are times when we need to think about the particular circumstances. For instance, after 9/11, several violent films were willingly delayed. They bring up unwelcome memories distress. That doesn't mean that they should be stripped away entirely, but that producers need to be aware of these feelings and act accordingly.

Like when the ads were in the DC metro. It's easy to say that the people who complained were just being crybabies, that they need to suck it up and take the revenue that comes with the advertisements. But a prominently displayed picture of your home and workplace in a post-apocalyptic setting is guaranteed to mess with you. If you went down to the bus station, I'm sure you would be bothered by a picture of your house flames in an ad for smoke alarms (remember, not everyone's as nihilistic as we gamers are; some things do bother them).

Fallout has more going for it that a destroyed landscape. There must have been other posters they could have used. I know for a fact they they recreated several metro stops (I live just a few miles from DC, and actually found my house... well, block). They would have been a surprise without invoking national tragedy.

That said, I don't condone the outright removal of the trailers and posters. There could have been a compromise that would satisfy both sides.

Kniobo

@serotoninzero: As bad as these actions are, they're not unconstitutional because they're voluntary processes, not gov't entities

AlinaFalcon

'people that like games and will rate objectively.' Surely people who are indifferent to games would be more objective?

ShravaniZeikfried

@apz600: agreed 100%. I really wish someone would take a stand and say **** off to the ESRB. Just show them a disney E game and release a M+ game instead

AugustClio