Japan's 2ch. Replies To RPG Complaints

Last week, website IGN published a list of ten ways to fix Japanese role-playing games. Japan's 2ch., the largest internet forum in the world, has responded.

IGN's list criticised things in Japanese role-playing games like the lifeless environments, linear gameplay, stereotypical stories and traditional battle systems. (Read the full list here.) 2ch., where users post anonymously, has responded.

Keep in mind: These remarks were posted anonymously by people on the internet. Some of the remarks might be serious, some might not be. They do point to a larger sentiment, however.

"Oblivion and Fallout fanatics are exponentially more annoying than any Final Fantasy fanatic."

"Hey foreigners: we find your first-person shooters boring as shit. What do you say to that?"

"When I see all the 'sniping' and corpse-desecrating 'teabagging' going on in US games, the thought of what what foreigners do when they get mad [in real life]freaks me out."

"Japanese RPGs are created for the express purpose of letting one experience the blooming of their full powers from a total zero starting point. They're necessary for keeping public order in Japan."

"Okay, so give us some foreign RPGs that are more interesting than Japanese ones. I just don't find foreign RPGs interesting at all."

"Oblivion's okay, but foreign games lack subtlety. They lack detail, and the character design and stories are bad."

"Americans can't understand complexity so a lot of the best stuff doesn't get translated. Like Megami Tensei"

"I call 'cultural differences'!"

"Show me an American-made RPG that satisfactorily addresses all of these complaints."

"Do foreign companies even make RPGs anymore? The only games that come to mind are first-person shooter action games. If we followed this 'advice' to the letter they'd have us making Grand Theft Auto clones."

Freedom vs Teabagging: Japanese Gamers Sound Off [AltJapan]


    Its really interesting reading opinions from Japanese themselves.

    I found this incredibly interesting:

    “Oblivion’s okay, but foreign games lack subtlety. They lack detail, and the character design and stories are bad.”

    Detail? Character design? stories? most of the AAA titles us 'westerners' play and experience are all so diverse and interesting, I personally think stories and characters for most JRPGs, aside from Final Fantasy are absolute rubbish, but it must just be cultural differences.

      The Japanese can't really complain about generic stories. Everyone does those, not just us, and not just them.

      What they can complain about are the characters. WRPG's have such bland presentations, such vacant characters. Even in games like Mass Effect, you can pretty much sum up any supporting character in one sentence. Complaints #2 and #6 on IGN's list are both valid. But they're applicable to WRPG's, too. There are less character archetypes in the JRPG games, but they're more complex than in the West. There needs to be more characterisation and more character-centric writing for American/European games.

      ...Hell, there needs to be more writing, period.

    Wow, Japanese gamers are really terrified of change, aren't they?

      Just as scared as we are. They just have a different present state. That's all.

      That's what I thought as well, the responses are far too heated for what was basically a small wish-list of reasonable changes. I thought the list was good, it suggested some nice ideas that would by no means undermine the genre.

      It seems to me that these guys had taken the list as a personal attack on Japanese gaming culture, hence the fevered backlash

    Before anyone replies with absolute xenophobic hate messages.

    Wow what a bunch of bigoted elitists. Much like any fanatical gamer to something that is out of their 'inner circle' (*ahem* Xbox and PS3 fanboys *ahem*).

      I couldnt agree with you more, the way they express these points sounds within the same amount of zeal and jingoistic-ness as an Xbox man defending his 360. Those fanboys really are making the rest of us 360 owners look like children.

    A lot of Japanese rpgs have more depth than western rpgs.

    There's a lot of fanboyism here, like xbox360 vs ps3 for example.

    Loads of Americans in particular would rather get a xbox360(microsoft-western owned) than a ps3(sony) even if the consoles were the same price.

    Its like overrating Uncharted 2 vs MGS4.
    If game critics see potential in the sequel, the developers jack up the review score to raise more revenue, so better games can be made. Otherwise it is dismissed as a cheap hit and run title.

    I'm sorry, is their something wrong with multiple grand theft auto games??

    on that note

      Those aren't RPG's. The only one which comes close was San Andreas. Those are sandbox, third-person shooters.

    “corpse-desecrating ‘teabagging’ going on in US games” HA!, Americans aren’t the ones with a whole videogame sector dedicated to tentacle porn rape. I think Japanese people seriously need to think again when it comes to whose games are more tasteless. I think Japan just needs to accept the fact that western companies have overtaken them in RPG development. RPG’s have always traditionally been a very Japanese thing, probably explains why they are so angry. While they were busy making another generic FF game has been in development for years the west put out the likes of Mass effect and Dragon age.

      Well put. I totally agree. Japan as a country churns out some of the most disgraceful trash (RapeLay, anyone?) and yet can produce nothing in the way of innovation in their RPGs. For them to use racist counter remarks in response to an observation of the obvious is saddening. When I clicked this page I thought that I would see some sort of variety in the comments. Instead I saw what I have come to expect from Machinima videos on Youtube: an unimaginative flame war of zealotry.

      Mass Effect, yes. Dragon Age, no.

    IGN really didn't think they could publish that list and not get a colossal bitch slap from the JRPG fanboys?

    I really hate that they say westerners when they mean Americans, and what is it that we all do when we get angry?

    I do find JRPG's remarkably similar... but then I've never been able to get into them too far.
    I always thought it was because I didn't like them... turns out they were just to complicated for my simple intellect.

    “Oblivion’s okay, but foreign games lack subtlety. They lack detail, and the character design and stories are bad.”

    Oh dear. I loathe Japanese writing for the fact that every character seems to have to blad their mouths out loudly stating the freaking obvious time and again, even stopping during intensive fights just so they can say something useless in a completely over the top and roundabout way.

    Not even mentioning the whole "GENERIC ANIME CHARACTER" issue.


      So you don't like anime. That's fine! That's a perfectly acceptable stance to hold, and you do have reasons for it.

      ...but you won't like JRPG's, then, because they're all essentially anime-RPG's. Or mostly, at least.

    I liked Fallout and Oblivion, I never played any JRPG, so I can't comment.

    Am i the only one that thought a lot of those people commenting seemed to take the original article awfully personally and seemed rather racist in their replies?

      Nah.. your thinking too much. This is fanboi territory here...

      My games are betar than urz! LAWLZ! PWNED! and whatnot =P

      Seriously I've mentioned this before and I'll mention it again.. you can't just compare WRPG's to JRPG's as the same thing. Their 2 very different approaches to what is the same genre. And as such will attract fairly different audiences (as is obvious by the massive divide of I like WRPG's more here =P).

    IGN didn't even address the issue of 45+ minute cutscnes in JRPG's that put anyone to sleep and fill more gameplay time then the actual game.

    “They’re necessary for keeping public order in Japan.”

    So if it wasn't for JRPGS there'd be crims running the streets!

      no, it'd be much worse.

      They'd be in your houses, stealing your gems and breaking your pots

        Nicely put.
        Best laugh I've had all day, lol.

    I like how they thing oblivion and fallout are the only western RPGs, what about fable, borderlands, world of warcraft, mass effect, kotor, just to name a few.

    It's not just the gameplay of JRPG's that has grown stagnant, it's also the horrifically bad storylines, or lack of (I mean how terrible was the story in SE's newer titles like Last Rem, Infinite Un and Star Ocean TLH), there's also unlikeable characters, usually a hero with amnesia, a tomboy bossy girl and a couple of kids and a goofy side kick guy.

    I could go on all day, the only JRPG's which I've actually finished since like FF9 all those years ago are pokemon and the world ends with you, just because of pure boredom. Stagnant unevolving genre is stagnant and unevolving.

    IGN's opinions on the topic is crap and don't represent anything. I mean if you changed JRPGs then it isn't a JRPG.

    ive never been able to get into JRPGS its just not my cup of tea i tried FF7 and after an hour it just felt too silly now its ok for a game to be silly but it's sillyness can not ever make the player think "this is stupid" like almost every JRPG ive ever played has


    Now to my rant:
    Their culture and taste are different than westerners. When pretty much the stuff they grew up with and have been playing since day 0 get criticised, what do you think they would do? Of course they would bloody retaliate!

    Don't cry foul to what they say, if it was reversed I'm sure 99% of Kotakuites will reply along the same line regardless of how accurate the list is.

    HAHAHAHA. It blows me away how xenophobic they are.

    Seriously, you can feel the seething hatred and fear of anything coming from outside of Japan in this diatribe.

    The fact they keep using the word "foreigners" over and over again... ugh. Kinda disgusts me.

      I think you'll find that that's just the same as saying "Non-Japanese". It's a cultural/translation thing, not a xenophobia thing. They're technically being more accurate that way, anyway.

    Lol I love JRPG's but I also love the western ones sooo it doesnt really bother me either way as long as I get my rpg fix.

    FF VIII my favorite rpg of all time

    Unintentional 'isolation' phenomenon all over again? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakoku)

    There are obviously cultural differences. Westerners watch movies which deal with logic and realism even in science fiction series. Japanese watch show that involve emotional immersion (will power trumps against logic)

    But related to gaming, the key is really innovation. Fable, Oblivion, Mass Effect define that RPG does not need to be always traditional. The genre is able to evolve in many different ways. JRPG though, or rather Japanese culture values 'tradition' more than evolution. The result is prettier RPGs on current gen console with the same exact tech/system, recycled from older generations. We have yet to see Final Fantasy 13 but really, most of current JRPGs are highly similar if not just lazy copies of the classic SNES RPGs.

    Areas where Western games try to tackles (smarter enemy AI, real time seamless action, cinematic scene, simplified action command, etc) are never explored in JRPGs ignoring the potential processing power of current generation consoles.

    The battlesystems in jrpg games are fine. I dont see people complaining that every single goddamned fps feels the same.

    Oh wait....

    Good to see Japanese forums aren't any better or worse than ours :)

    Thats all I can take away from these quotes. I doubt the view of the forum matches the view of the majority gamer that much (e.g. WoW forums).

    Seriously? This is a bad article, Kotaku has no excuse for this kind of shitstirring.

    "Here's something some REAL LIVE JAPANESE PEOPLE said on the internet about an article on a popular English language website."

    Keep in mind that 2ch is the Japanese equivalent to (and progenitor of) fucking 4chan. What the hell, Kotaku? Bloody pathetic.

    Oh, love the contrasting flag motif. Real subtle.


      It could be about race and conflict, or it could be a discussion. That's up to you.

    wow I wish I didn't come in here ... big .. WHO CARES!!!!

    No news here.
    People prefer the sort of games they are used to, the sort of stuff that they grew up with.
    Personally I like JRPGs as they often do have a better story and more pleasing (to me at least) visuals. (favorites being the FF series, the Megami Tensei games and spinoffs that have been released in english, and the MGS series)
    That said Western RPGs can be good too. Fallout and Fallout 2 were great, Fallout 3 was only just an RPG, more of an FPS, its allright, but I havent got round to finishing it yet (and I bought it on release day). Mass Effect was good, but honestly, whilst fun, it wasn't as great as some try to paint it... that said I have ME2 on pre-order.

    As far as not changing... well Dragon Age is just a prettied up Baulders Gate... That's not an insult, Baulders Gate was a great game, its just an observation (based on the first few hours of play).

    No surprise on the backlash. I mean I would be pissed if someone were to tell me that the kind of stuff I like (or in this case the games and franchises I enjoy playing) are considered crap in comparison to the stuff they like. Even more so when the comments come from someone whose claims are from a completely different cultural view, who say that it's either the game style has to be their way or it's a definitive flop.

    More interesting to me is why they started doing these comments more vehemently lately. Their was never any need to excessively comment on it until now.

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