READY Diary: Kotaku On Sunrise

Sadly, I'll be on a flight to Melbourne when Seamus represents Kotaku on Sunrise, heading off to talk about Mobile gaming and check out Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit.

This means that I'll miss all the good stuff on the R18+ debate.

So consider this the comments thread of the debate on Sunrise. Let us know how it all went, tell us what points were best, etc, etc. Since I'll be on the move all day, this is the only way I'll be able to find out how it all went down – so keep me in the loop!

[Video now included for those that missed it live!]



    Dat mustache, I haven't watched Sunrise in a while, so Koshie's mustache is a bit of a surprise to me.

      He's doin' it for Movember.

    Congrats on getting on there Seamus, and also getting your point across.

    Seamus, you are a champ. Way to put up a well reasoned argument without telling that dude he was a tosser. I appreciated the link also mate as I was commuting at the time.

    How funny that his own sun had been playing these games and he had never sat down to ask what his children were playing. You can bet that he would have if there was an R18+ rating... lol.

    I would have to say that you won that one mate. Great job...

      That point hit me too - the fact he's against an R18+ rating that would've educated him as a parent on the games that his kids were playing. Which is completely the point.

      Great job Seamus, you were concise and Mel and David (moreso David) were agreeable with your point of view. It's just a shame the segment was so short, but that's the norm with telly these days. :(

        A six minute segment is LONG these days. Usually you get 3-4 minutes.

          Can i just add that he said black ops was the 8th game in the series.

          ....Black ops is the 7th game in the series, someone should slap this man.

            8 if you wanna count united offensive as it's own game :D

              if you count united offence then why not count big red one. either way its not 8

            On a few occasions he also referred to games as "videos"... on top of a slap he also deserves a facepalm.

          I guess that shows why programs like Q&A and Insight are getting so popular - proper, lengthy and informative debates are becoming harder to find, but there is still a demand for them.

      Nice work on Sunrise Seamus. I have to say, whoever that guy was next to you, he has no idea what he is talking about.

      This is the fundamental problem with the anti-R18 group. They try and scare the less informed people into thinking that the R18 rating will lead to the downfall of society and promote violent crime.

      Well played Seamus you gave the dude enough rope to hang himself on his own arguments. He thought you were gonna go for the old 'Adults should be able to play what they want' but you tricked him with our new material and he ended up inadvertantly agreeing with you :)

    The other guy seemed like a bit of a tool when he twisted Seamus' words at the beginning :/

    Seamus. Well done! Very happy to be represented by you.
    Although, I couldn't figure out the older guy was opposed to the classification or not, or what his point of view was.
    I think he was just pulled off the street.

    With the CoD:BO trailer playing, I found it hard to listen what was being said.

    Nevertheless, I think Seamus did an excellent job, and it felt that the Sunrise interviewers (forgot their names) seemed to lean on Seamus' side, but that could be a bad interpretation of the video.

    Thanks, Kotaku Australia, for representing a fairer and better way for gamers. :)

    Indeed Seamus,

    Nice work, you were the more reasoned and intelligent of the two argurers and UNBELIEVEABLY the media was on YOUR SIDE!

    Methinks we'll see some progress here, if popular media is behind it (i.e. koshie) it will happen, YAY! :)

    So in short if it is okay to make movies that... Display the human form and have such excessive violence and gore (Hostel I'm looking at you) Why can't we apply that same standard to video games?

    I think to just change the name of the MA15+ to R18+ would be a step backwards rather than forwards, because while yes the MA 15+ should be tightened to not include games like Black Ops just wiping it out all together defeats the purpose of ever changing it.

      yeah that was a stupid argument

      Because the game with minor violence in the course of telling the story may have been rated MA15+ instead of M and suddenly off it goes to R :(

      yeah the average M15+/MA15+ slasher films have more graphic violence than ANY game has ever had! And the only game on the horizon that contains graphic violence would be the new Mortal Kombat game - but that's not even realistic graphic violence! Also I've never really seen any game ever show sword slash wounds or actual bullet holes on character models - not ever!

    Good job Seamus, that other guy just used the standard anti R18 argument that more violent games will be released, such a naive idiot.

      Yeah, as if implying that the entire game industry is filled with "Jack the Ripper" esque gamers/developers who are just waiting for the chance to fill our society whith filth, debauchery and depraved lunacy...

    You really made some valid points Seamus.

    You know, upon watching it a second time, I think what annoys me about Damien's argument is that it's almost like he's trying to coddle his 24 year old son?
    I get that he's from the Association of Family something something, and what he's trying to protect is wholesome (young) family values, and that's fair enough. Even I agree the gore content of Black Ops is unnecessary. But Mel (surprisingly enough) raises the point that if you're 18+, you should be free to play it.
    Also disagreeable is his line "A push for 18+ is a push for more violent videos (games)".

    But yeah, as everyone's said Seamus, good job!

    Seamus you successfully crushed the troll sitting next to you on the couch. What a nutcase, i'm really greatful that the presenters were good enough to see through his stupid arguement against the R18 rating and engage with your point. KO. You Win.

    That turned out much better than I thought it would! It was great to see Koshie and the Lady (sorry, I don't watch tv and don't know who she is, eep) say it's time for classification changes. Really good to get it across to the soccer mums or whoever watches sunrise that their kids are basically playing R18+ games. Awesome work :)

    It was great you obviously had the presenters on your side, not so much convincing necessary on your part. Overall, gives the average non-gamer Sunrise watcher a good argument for why we need 18+. Lovely 90% stat you pulled out (although I assume you're including the 16+ (; )

      I did say 90% are rated at a "higher rating" than here. Yep, that includes 16+, 17, and 18 wherever they may exist. But I think that's one of the key points to show why we need to fix the system here in Australia. :-)

        Can I ask where you got the figure? The research I did a year ago put it between 80 and 85. That was MA15+ games rated M in the US for the preceding 3 years.

        Has it got that much worse in the last year, or were you simply casting a wider net?

    Well done Seamus it's about time someone with a brain in there head got a chance to lay this topic before the public in a well thought out manner. What really needs to change is the old world values that people over 50 are still applying to a modernized world, Not saying that the values they have are worthless just that they need to be adapted for the 21st century. I've gamed my whole life and do think that as a parent and a gamer the ratings system needs to be overhauled. you don't take a 15 year old to see saw and they shouldn't be playing a lot of M15+ games they lack the mental maturity to process what they are being exposed to.

      SAW was only MA15+ so it's perfectly acceptable to take a kid to see that.

      infact the only saw to be rated R was SAW V. Those horror movies are aimed at teens so they make sure they get a rating so they can see it.

      Much in the same way Die Hard 4 Censored the last part of the series catchphrase so it could get a PG-13 Rating in the US.

      as for those out of touch old people, the issue is that we still elect them run govt because people assume the younger candidates don't have enough experience or aren't mature enough so it's kinda our own fault

    I was expecting more of a debate. I'm glad you didn't rise to the bait and lower yourself to his level, Seamus! Well done mate.

      How Seamus restrained himself from ripping the other guy to pieces is beyond me. Not only were his arguments petulant and ineffective (in content, not delivery), but the guy didn't even know what his own children were playing over the course of many years (by his own admission!).

    Top Stuff.

    Personally I would have jumped down the throat of the Opponent at the fact that he basically admitted that he didn't have any idea what games his kids were playing, and what rating they were, which is a significant part of the argument here.

    But well done in putting forward a simple, logical, sensible view Seamus :)

    Good on ya Seamus. It's also nice that Mel and Kochie showed interest as well.

    Uhh! I feel like a ditz for not noticing that, btw nice work Seamus.

    Can someone explain to me what on Earth anti-R18+ people mean when they say "violent videos"? Do they think that "video" can substitute the phrase "video game" as "game" does?

      I'm pretty confident the guy meant video games but just mispoke.

    Seamus wins.

    You successfully made the point that our system is broken. We have one system for film and other media, and an entirely different system for video games. Makes no sense.

    At 3 minutes is where he (the Family Association guy) basically ruins his own point. Saying he doesn't want a 15 year old playing this game. But he doesn't really have a problem with a 24 year old playing it.

    Let me tell you about this R18+ rating we're proposing that would solve this dilemma for you!

    I love how those in opposition to this issue never have any hard evidence of their claims!

    "Making an R18+ ratings will open the doors to more violent video [games]."


    What overly-violent games is this guy talking about?! They don't exist! Yet it's always a point the opposition brings up. Godammit it's so frustrating no one ever rebuts this!

    These clueless, tunnel-vision crusaders never have the facts but always manage to get their opinions heard. It's a joke.

      Well... here's a list:

        and have you read most of them the majority are banned for sexual or drug related reason's not violence.

        and i'm not sure why war shouldn't be depicted as a harsh and brutal place. It's not like everyone was running around going be careful i washed my uniform last night i don't want any blood on it

      Exactly! If they could start naming games that have been rated RC over here that would otherwise be rated R18+, they might have some sort of point. The problem is that the vast majority of games that would be categorised as R18+ are shoe-horned down into MA15+ instead.

      A further point to be made is marketing, barely any excessively violet games get made, because they don't sell and they only appeal to a smaller range of audience, thus less money.

      Its like Australia has built floodgates on the edge of a desert.

      "WHAT GAMES?!"

      Found them! .....Already here under the MA15+ rating.

      Well done Seamus. It could have only gone better if the segment was a little bit longer and you had the time to bring up situations like L4D2, where they get censored to an absolute minimal amount to let the maximum amount of violence into a game, where the uncensored version, whilst more violent, has that extra 3 year buffer for people buying it.

        Wasn't half the L4D2 mess that they over censored it instead of under censoring it? The censored version was designed to just ram it through the classification system as soon as possible. They weren't interested in testing the limits, they just made something that would definitely get through on it's first try.

        That said it's still an important game to bring up. They never addressed any of the issues most of these groups are concerned about. It's still a game where you slaughter thousands of people who caught a disease. There's still melee fighting and tons of shooting. It's still designed to freak you out when you play alone at night.
        If the violence is the problem then L4D2 (AU censored) and L4D2 (uncensored) are the same game.

          There's only so much time in these TV discussions, but what you're pointing to -- and something I thought about bringing up but decided it would be a tangent too many -- is that the tick-a-box violence concerns over blood/gore/etc are not as troubling for me as 'adult themes'. As you say, it's the scary, freaky, weird, disturbing things that a game can suggest or ultimately 'be about' that never get attention during classification. But they're the reason why kids shouldn't be playing these things! A few virtual bullets are not as disturbing as tackling the darkness of the human soul...

            Totally agree. I couldn't believe when i went to watch The Dark Knight in cinemas how many kids were there that would have easily been under 10 years old. All because parents thought it would be okay to take the kids to see because there was no blood or bad language....

            Naturally. As much as I'd like it to be a three hour class on the subject it was just a TV spot and you did well with the time you had.

    gah video's not available

      seems to do that now and then. just try again. it should be live for at least a few months.

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