These Might Be The Most Sexist Gamers On The Planet

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These Might Be The Most Sexist Gamers On The Planet


Get some popcorn and/or a cup of tea. This is some good late night reading.

So there’s this online community called the Men Going Their Own Way Forums. Calling themselves “the Internet’s biggest and best Men’s forum”, it’s actually a place where disgruntled, repressed men can go and bitch about women.

While their rants on divorce, sex and politics are amusing, it’s their thoughts on women in video games that have us pulling up chairs and settling in.

In a thread entitled “WTF is with empowered women in video games now?”, user I Am kicks things off with a complaint about one of my favourite games of 2011, PC strategy title Shogun 2.

“I recently bought an upgrade for the game the other day and guess what one of the strongest military units was?”, he ponders. “Nuns. I shit you not. The nuns had an attack 20% -40% higher than most units in the game. Somehow I doubt that in real life a nun would have swung a sword or used a spear faster and harder than a feudal warlord, and this game was based on history.

“I think I have the right to ask steam and other gaming companes: WTF with the subliminal brainwashing? What now when I buy or play a game women will be doing all the arse kicking? I seen some similiar patterns on the game advertisements on television and the internet recently and want to know if anyone else is seeing the pattern?

“I call bullshit on this subject. Video games are the last place for guys to hang out and now women are taking over. Why not just save us the trouble and instead of eliminating our fantasy world just throw us in work camp to provide for thier bastard children (literally speaking) while they shit all over us…wait they already do that.

End of rant.”

End of his rant, maybe. But it’s just the beginning of everyone else’s. Below you’ll find just a sample of other member’s thoughts on those damn women invading that last great bastion of male entertainment.

I’ve noticed this too, and it drives me insane. Was co-oping Gears 3 last month and there’s a point where 2nd player has to take over a female character. Almost ruined the game for me. It may seem minor, but once you’re aware of this type of brainwashing it’s impossible to ignore. There’s no way a slim female could keep up with the massive battle-hardened male Gears in that kind of environment. They would be a liability as they are in real life combat.

It would be hilarious to portray the female characters realistically. If you chose the female character in your FPS she would have to move very slowly, dragging the gun around. You could build in some extra shake to the crosshairs to represent hopeless accuracy. Every time you needed to reload your gun, instead of just pressing a button, you’d have to find a male character and go through some flirting dialogue options to persuade him to do it for you. One out of every four missions the game would tell you that you were sitting out this one due to ‘women’s issues’.

Many dweebs who play video games, being passive followers, see themselves as women, and therefore unconsciously identify with symbols of female power. This phenomenon has its source in *geeks* who haven’t developed a masculine identity, not feminazis.

15 years ago, when video games were simple 2D arrangements of polygons, women wanted nothing to do with them. Like everything else, women wait until men build the foundation and then they usurp it.

Yeah I wish they would beef up the females so it would be believable that they could tote around a huge arse gun and keep up with their male counterparts. But like you said in your edit, the issue of “eyecandy” for men is what makes it un-realistic.

Keep on truckin’, fellas.

The original creator of the thread in question has now, in response to the internet noticing the group’s combined efforts, posted a follow-up, in which he writes:

Obviously I said something inspiring for some and offensive for others otherwise the ratings would not be so high.

To those inspired: Good. This forum is “Basic Introduction to Reality 101” brought to you by “The Red Pill.” Enjoy your trip down the rabbit hole. Just don’t step in the feminist bullshit on your way there.

To those that are offended: Good. I am glad you are thinking for once… just don’t hurt yourself. It is an opinion article, get over it and get back to feeding your cat.

His final word?

The thread was about how unrealistically women are increasing portrayed in video games and the media. Period. That is all. Don’t take it as hate speach, bigotry, or sexism. It’s not.

Nuns and girls, with the exception of some lesbians in the county prison, cannot kick anyone’s arse unless a desperate mangina/white knight who is trying to get laid does it on their behalf. Don’t hate nature over it.

What a wonderful world we live in.

WTF is with empowered women in video games now? [MGTOW]

‘WTF is with empowered women in video games now?’ [Destructoid]

Comments

  • Well, you have to admit. The forum dude does have a point about realism, nuns, and feudal warlords. Otherwise, disagree about video games being the last place for guys to hang out. That’s what the shed out the back is for.

    What was the point of this article? Is sexism and gaming the new hot topic? It does tend to gather some passionate and numerous posts, I suppose.

    • I think it seems to be the issue that we’re struggling with in gaming at the moment, as gaming opens up to the wider populace. It was considered less of an issue when it literally was just basement geek boys, but now that everyone’s in on it it’s time to have a look at what’s going on and try and fix it. It’s also related to the advances in graphics – when the two of you were each a vertical white line, you’d be hard pressed to call Pong sexist.

    • but even sheds are becoming a scarce commodity nowadays, so are attics and basements, hell even storerooms…

      remember the days when manly rooms were abundant? I don’t but I’m sure I would’ve liked a big trophy room with the heads of all the gamers I’ve pwned hanging on the wall.

      But yes, games as hangout places for guys? no.

    • Leaping from ‘nuns are the best unit for combat’ to ‘women are ruining everything’, is, you have to agree, quite the leap, and that’s really the issue here.

  • I heard about this yesterday, but the guy’s follow up is just as sad.

    “Nuns and girls, with the exception of some lesbians in the county prison, cannot kick anyone’s arse…”
    Wow, I hope some girl kicks the shit out him, films it and puts it on youtube.

    • Yeah all these whingers would urinate all over themselves if any of the things that happen in games were a reality for them personally.

  • OK, so I actually agree with this guy:

    “Yeah I wish they would beef up the females so it would be believable that they could tote around a huge arse gun and keep up with their male counterparts. But like you said in your edit, the issue of “eyecandy” for men is what makes it un-realistic.”

    in that a female character designed the standard way female characters are designed – tiny legs, tiny arms, massive breasts – isn’t going to be able to do the same sort of things that a standard male character – muscled arms, muscled legs, huge pecs – is, and the design is due mostly to them being “eye candy”, and I wouldn’t mind it if some female characters were a bit more realistically muscled.

    But the rest of them… look, I know it’s no one person’s job to represent a group – a gay man doesn’t represent “all gay men”, a black woman doesn’t represent “all black people” or “all women” – but come on, guys. You’re making male gamers look bad.

    • Oh, and I need to mention. This “Don’t take it as hate speach, bigotry, or sexism. It’s not.” reminds me of people who upload whole movies to YouTube and then write “no copyright infringement intended”.

      A quick hint: if the rest of the internet thinks you’re a hateful sexist bigot, you probably are.

      • If you’d said anything other than ‘internet’ I miiight have agreed, the internet is full of the stupiest people on the planet, the number of times I’ve seen racism/sexism called when it’s nothing of the sort is depressing.
        Unrelated to this specific topic though, continue.

      • Just like the people who say ‘I’m not a racist, but…” and then the next thing to come out of that person’s mouth is something blatantly racist.

        • I can think of one exception to that rule: when expressing the opinions of others/society.
          example: I’m not racist but the black guy always dies first in movies”
          I’ve been called racist for saying that exact thing.

    • The problem I see with a lot of this male bigotry that has gotten such a strong voice (see AskFeminists on Reddit) is that they’re adept at blending a smidgen of truth in with their arguments to make their more outlandish points appear more reasonable. While it is certainly true that the sexism of video game design doesn’t leave a lot of room for ‘believable’ heroine’s in most cases this is less a problem of jarred reality, then it is of one of sexism, portraying women in an unfavourable light.

      Basically compare Angelina Jolie to Sigourney Weaver in Tomb Raider and Aliens and you have where Video games are, and where they should be in terms of representations of women. The reason why the realism issue though, isn’t that important is well, games tend to err on the Tomb Raider end of the realism factor for the most part and so their exaggerated representations blanket all forms of content, not just big breasted, skinny women.

      As for Total War, well that’s just a strange exception to the general rule with that series. Typically, that series has just had a rather bland, but realistic portrayal of the gender divide; eg. that men are all there are when it comes to historical warfare. I guess, expect that to change if you approach a historical period like WW2, but for the time being a long, rather accurate game series that has one, tiny slip in gender realities is doing pretty well.

    • If it was a secret sect of ninja nuns trained by the Vatican to carry out covert operations, then it makes sense. And would be totally kick arse. Send out the nuns!

  • lol @ the idea about a conspiracy to brainwash men.

    Women are portrayed unrealistically in video gamess because a lot of men design video games. Big boobed characters appeal to men.

  • “Yeah I wish they would beef up the females so it would be believable that they could tote around a huge arse gun and keep up with their male counterparts. But like you said in your edit, the issue of “eyecandy” for men is what makes it un-realistic.”

    I do sort of understand this one, Anya could have been a little beefed up considering the weight she is carrying. But on the whole I’m not surprised by a group like this, there is a boys club for just about everything that feels that they are being oppressed by the very presence of women and their interest in their hobby.

    It’s somewhat questionable, really, when men can’t think of anything worse than sharing their hobby with the opposite sex.

    • The women in the Israeli Defence Force don’t look huge… nor do the ones in the Canadian, Chinese or Russian Armys.

      That said, very few of the men look like the Dudebros from the Gears of War games either.

  • wow, let’s get off by saying these people are as bad as people that congregate and discuss how God created the world 6000 years ago… Let’s ignore for the fact that these peoples beliefs in the eyes of regular people is just wrong.

    “I think I have the right to ask steam and other gaming companes: WTF with the subliminal brainwashing?” – This line in particular told me everything I needed to know about this article… that the people discussed here are idiots. No need to acknowledge these people, they’re trolls… not just Internet trolls, real life trolls. Ignore these people and go about your lives people.

  • As they say: “Never argue with an idiot, he’ll only bring you down to his level and beat you”

    These lads would probably argue the pronoun usage in that sentence.

  • Just playing devil’s advocate, if there’s a large enough market for radically sexist, racist or homophobic games they will be made. With any luck they’ll get pushed to the fringe where they belong but beyond that there’s not much you can do other than shake your head and try not to give them free publicity. Then they’ll just go away.

  • I can see where they are coming from, it isn’t realistic. Women, as a gender, are typically weaker and lighter than men. It’s not sexist, it’s true. So in a combat situation (especially a feudal war) they won’t be as strong as their male counterparts.

    I’m all for empowerment, but if you’re going to make a historical game then you might as well be realistic.

    • Generally, yes, if we’re talking about averages. But the distribution of strength and weight means x percent of women will be physiologically capable of matching y percent of men. It’ll be a much smaller percentage, but it’s there.

      It forms part of what the Australian Defence Force (for example) is using to screen service men and women for some front line positions. If you can meet the physical requirements (and others), you’re in – regardless of gender. The percentage of women who meet these requirements might be much smaller than the percentage of total men, but gender shouldn’t be a barrier if the capability is there.

      Re: Shogun Total War’s battle-nuns, well – the series has never exactly prided itself on historical accuracy.

  • I like how he ends his final word with “period. That is all.” And then he continues spewing bullshit.

    This is what happens when men are raised by overbearing controlling mothers. They grow up with ‘woman issues’ and feel like they need to express their repressed masculinity.

  • So many people quick to call them sexist. Doesn’t surprise me. It’s a tactic used to stop debate. Just like calling someone racist is.

    Maybe instead of being sheep and calling them “sexist” You should listen to them and try to understand why they’re saying it?

    This is what really annoys me. How many womens groups are there? How many feminists groups are? Some of which seem like nothing but men hating groups. Yet most see these groups as good, positive and necessary. Yet groups set up for men and to discuss issues affecting men are attacked with typical slurs like “they’re sexist”

    He does make a point. Like it or not, women are physically weaker than men. It’s not absolute but generally true. It’s not sexist to say so. So it is pretty stupid to have a skinny female character with no muscle on her running around covered in armour with a big ass gun doing the same thing as her fellow beefed up male counterparts.

    And I know it’s hard for some to believe, but boys and men DO experience sexism and inequality in areas too.

    Men and women ARE different (again, in general) and those differences should not be ignored or shouldn’t pretend like they don’t exist because of political correctness. We are equal but different.

    *waits for the “sexist” accusations*

    • No doubt some of those men are just sexist, but I think a majority are there because they see the double standards and inequality men experience. And see that nobody takes the men issues serious or cares. So they take comfort in finding and talking to others who do.

      Having a quick look over that site, I can see many legitimate topics that I understand and agree with. It’s about time people stop pretending men never experience problems and women are always the victims.

      I have four sisters and more nieces than I can count. I have great respect for women. But I can see these problems.

  • As a founding member of the He-Man woman Hater’s Club, I would like to add one more thing to this ever-growing list of insolent and sacrilegious portrayals of the lesser folk.

    Chess has long been a game of war, a game of MEN.
    It sickens me that the strongest piece be known as the queen.

    /chauvinistic hatespeech piece.

    wow, that actually HURT to write. How can people actually *believe* this stuff?

    • “How can people actually *believe* this stuff?”

      There always is unfortunately : ( . In a similar manner to rule 34, I would add rules 35 and 36

      35: People can be that stupid and/or crazy. See rule 36.
      36: Yes they really can

  • i fully support this site fuck all women they should be in the kitchen making me a sandwich and then giving me a blowjob while i play games.

  • …yeah, because dudes with biceps bigger than their heads are so realistic.

    In the words of a 12 year old girl who would totally kick all of their asses…
    “What a douche!”

  • Yes woman are portrayed unrealistically in games, but so are men. Look at all those games that require climbing. The average human would be able to hold themselves for a few minutes at most before letting go. Gender doesn’t matter.
    Realism can add another element to games, or it can ruin it.

    This guy obviously has a chip on his shoulder and has to vent it some way.

  • Sounds like an echo chamber for misogynists. Someone says something and others will chime in and it’s all “yeah, he’s right!’. As an earlier poster said, they sprinkle just enough truth to make their views seem somewhat legit.

    There may be a vein of truth. After all we have those Men’s shed support groups for a reason, and periodically you can read in the media how some PC shit stirrer is taking offence to a private mens club somewhere…but women only clubs are ok. There might even be a case of the plight of boys in the education system as that one will pop up in the papers on occasion.

    In any case, these guys come across as spiteful women haters with a pinch of woe is me. Yeah, the men in gears are realistic. And here I thought Soldiers were only strong enough to carry their gear and their mates if need be. Clearly they need more giant muscle as well as muscle to support that added weight in addition to the ludicrous dietary requirements just to maintain that size.

    I gotta find maria Marcus. GOD DAMN IT.

  • Yesterday’s announcement about the “At least you’re trying” award from BorderHouse puts this and all the other Kotaku US articles about how male gamers are misogynistic cretins in perspective now. I’d like to think that Kotaku US actually cares about the issue but an article purely quoting a forum post of guys bashing women in games with a comment of “Not on guys” comes across as nothing but trying to curry favour.

    • Journalists can’t have an opinion about the industry they cover?

      Kotaku US does a lot of news-y news articles, but I appreciate it when the writers take the time to comment on these sort of topics. It’s obvious, especially in Kirk Hamilton’s work, that these are pretty deeply held ideas.

      I’m a bit baffled that anyone would think they’re being insincere or trying to curry favour, when half the comments on articles like this are from people who are sick of Kotaku’s coverage and want it to end. Surely if they were being populist they’d side with those who don’t see it as a problem, and stop reporting on it?

      And why would anybody side with the margins if they didn’t think, at the very least, that they had something worth considering? It’d be far easier if Kotaku stopped its ‘sexism in gaming’ series of articles (and frequent editorialising by almost all its staff) and put in more videogame news, as some in the comments want – but clearly, they aren’t doing that. I think that’s a good thing.

      • Actually regardless of popular opinion, KotakuUS would continue with it anyway since their revenue is based on page hits not feedback and nothing gets page hits like articles of this nature.

        • True. Though the side of me that isn’t horribly cynical hopes that at least part of the reason they’re doing it is because it’s a topic worthy of discussion (whatever one’s personal feelings), and not just because it gets page views. Reading the US staff’s editorials makes me think it’s the former.

          I mean, sure, half a dozen staff writers could feign to be interested in this debate just so they could stir up enough controversy to get hits and ad revenue, but I think it’s a bit unlikely – and pretty damn opportunistic if it were true.

  • The Mod of that Man Forum’s response to KotakuUS’s post and the hate speech and dribble that has since flowed from both sides.

    “We attempt to expose and defuse misandry here.

    While there is plenty of anger expressed on these forums at society’s implicit acceptance of male-hating vitriol and more subtle, pervasive manifestations of misandry,– from television shows and commercials portraying men as idiot buffoons, to anti-male legislation that explicitly, and incorrectly, casts men as the dominant perpetrators of domestic violence– this site is not about hating women.

    Instead, we admonish men to re-examine their “script:” our culture’s often backwards, retrograde expectations for us as males. We contend that the men’s-liberation movement hasn’t happened yet. And it’s 40 years too late. Men must wake up; they must become cognizant of the potential for devastation and despair all around them! For instance, does it make sense for a man to marry today when the majority of often financially and emotionally devastating divorces are initiated by women? Or, for the American college guys out there, check out the government’s new interpretation of Title IX vis a vis your right to due process in a university-investigated false rape allegation scenario. Trust me, if you value enlightenment ideals, you will not be happy with what you read. (Search for “dear colleague letter.”) And the list of perils and pitfalls for men goes on, and on, and on…”

    Say what you will on this topic, I don’t support stupidity mouthing off whenever they get the chance, but the sooner a more educated Pro-man movement comes about the better.

    I’m not saying it won’t have its faults like such radical feminist movements and members, in fact I would think that there’s a good chance any man without an education on the subject and looking to bring back the 60’s would jump at the chance to vividly promote something like this, but it must be done.

    Equality comes for fair treatment for both genders, and equal tolerance for both ends of the argument. Anyone that calls a man a “sexist pig” for sticking up for a fairer notion of gender equality on the side of men is nothing short of “PC Thug”

    I despise this “issue” constantly popping up on Kotaku at every opportunity, first that backwards dating advice for geeks guru and now this BS. I’m hoping Kotaku AU doesn’t follow up with another dose of this, or if they do. Why don’t they try something so radical as to look at this from a “Pro Man” point of view.

    Good chance it won’t. But a man can dream.

  • I’m sympathetic to quite a few (although certainly not “all” and possibly even not “most”) men’s movement causes, and I’m not a fan of the misandric forms of feminism. But honestly, posts like the one’s quoted in the article are INSANE.

    The post begins with a legitimate observation; badass battle-nuns tend to be extremely scarce in real life, irrespective of what Warhammer 40k may lead one to believe. But then it spills over into demented conspiracy theories like “women are conspiring to stop men from being able to have fantasies that women don’t like” and other things like that. And sure, ON AVERAGE (over sufficiently large sample sizes), women have less upper-body strength than men, but that only tells you things about a large statistical aggregate and NOTHING about any specific woman (or man) in particular.

    Admittedly, I’ve heard many women say things just as horribly misandric as the examples of misandry that have been quoted. But that is irrelevant; hating an entire GENDER is patently stupid. People are individuals and should be judged as such.

    That said, I think it shows some level of bias that pro-feminist articles pop up regularly (and receive a very mixed reception), alongside articles that show high levels of misogyny amongst some Men’s Movement activitsts. It seems that the editorial powers that be are interested in showing somewhat reasonable feminism juxtaposed against completely unreasonable masculism.

    Perhaps, in the interest of balance, we could have some postings made by some feminist gamers which accuse ALL men, as a class, of being evil rapists, and juxtapose that against some arguments inspired by Warren Farrell’s “The Myth of Male Power” where a male gamer argues that the role most men are placed in within video games is rarely an enviable one.

    Because after all, a mix of various viewpoints debating in a civilized fashion is always far more productive than an intellectual monoculture.

    • CORRECTION: “Horribly misandric as the examples of misandry” should replace “misandry” with “misogyny.”

      Additionally, it should be noted that the forum has many people saying that the badass battle-nuns are unrealistic. So are most video games’ depictions of men. Video games are a fantasy, so unless the game is expressly realistic it does not HAVE to depict women (or men) accurately.

  • He does have a point. One problem with civil rights and equality movements is that they do tend to ignore the differences between genders. For some reason this causes a polarisation in society that doesn’t reflect reality in the slightest. Either everyone’s equal and abled bodied and have the same level of strength/historical roles/whatever, even if that doesn’t conform to reality, or things go the opposite way and become entirely sexist.

    Mind you, I don’t care so much about the objectifying the opposite gender part, that’s just eye candy and cheap things like that. But historical games should, well, be historical.

    As for cases where men are treated worse off than women, luckily that doesn’t appear in video games, so it’s not really relevant. But if there’s one thing I’ve found in life, it’s that feminism, or whatever the hypothetical equivalent for men is, concepts like those tend to keep on going past the point of equality, always claiming the opposite party has things “better” or constantly referring to past offences or non-issues. It’s just the way things unfortunately seem to work.

    My strategy – stop caring. Heck, just take the Dr Strangelove subtitle and that makes a very good motto right there! (The bit about “How I learnt to stop caring and love the bomb” or something like that)

  • No such thing as battle nuns? Withcraft, heresy and mutation!

    I wish Total War would return to the old days where a woman knew her place -in the bedroom, garotting a warload with a shamisen string.

  • Sorry to say but after playing Shogun Total War 2 and seeing women in CLOTH owning men in HEAVY ARMOR PLATING, yeah this guy has a point.
    Also we’re talking about feudal Japan not pussy-whipped modern USA where men have been reduced to lap dogs.

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