Talk Amongst Yourselves

This is where Kotaku readers go to talk about the stuff we’re not already posting about. Think of it as the official unofficial Kotaku community forum.


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    Hi everyone,

    I hope you all had wonderful weekends full of gastronomic delight, intellectual and emotional stimulation, and thoroughly satisfactory restment. I’ve been at work with nothing urgent to do since 7:20, so have pre-written this inaugural TAY post for your infotainment.

    Limbo

    As some of you might be aware, I purchased the Humble Bundle V, which includes Limbo, Bastion, Psychonauts, Amnesia, and Sword and Sorcery. I played Limbo first, because it had (by far) the smallest install file, and was thus the easiest to download! Gorgeous art style and atmosphere really sucks you into caring for this unknowable protagonist. I haven’t finished the game yet, but think I’m nearly at the end. ROT13 incoming:

    Fcvqre jnf njrfbzr. V zvff uvz. Chyyvat bss uvf ynfg yrt jnf oehgny naq fnq.

    Gubfr oenva fyhtf ner ovmneer. Gurl jba'g yrg lbh fgbc jnyxvat be ghea nebhaq, ohg gurl jvyy yrg lbh chfu oybpxf, whzc naq pyvzo ynqqref. Juvyr zbfg bs gur tnzr'f bgure zrpunavpf pna or svtherq bhg ol ybbxvat ng gurz, guvf bar arrqf gevny naq reebe naq srryf yvxr n ovg bs n yrgqbja birenyy. Bapr lbh trg gur unat bs vg, gubhtu, vg'f nf sha nf nal bgure cneg.

    Fuvsg sebz sberfg gb vaqhfgevny jnfgrynaq jnf wneevat. V unir ab vqrn jung'f tbvat ba.

    Dark Souls

    Posted yesterday, but you might not have seen and I want to brag.

    My Dark Souls weekend. Took out the following:
    Butterfly thing
    Hydra
    Undead Dragon
    Quelaag spider chick

    Tonight I think I’ll try Ceaseless Discharge... then I might play some more Dark Souls.

      That's a pretty productive Dark Souls week let alone weekend. :P

        To be honest, I only got that much done because going through the Depths to Blighttown was kicking my butt, so I had to do all this to unlock the other way around :P

      "Ceaseless Discharge"
      Everytime I hear it, I :/

        I know. It's a bit of an odd name, especially because it seems to have a huge tentacle attack.

      PLAY AMNESIA!! PLAY AMNESIA!! PLAY AMNESIA!! PLAY AMNESIA!! PLAY AMNESIA!!

        I heard a rumour that it’s scary...

        I got the bundle too, and I'm definitely apprehensive about amnesia. First-person games are stressful enough without the scary stuff thrown in >.<

    So you know how i have been happy and awesome, thats stopped now, i am mopey and cranky again. I need someone to throw a redbull in my eyes. Make me stop thinking so much and cut my ear off. That way people will be like

    "that 12 year old is troubled genius" they will then throw money at my feet and i will live like a king. By live like a king, i mean sit at home eat 2 minute noodles and watch friends reruns on tv.

    MORNING EVERYONE

      Friends is awesome.
      Also, is the mood thing a cycle or did something kick it off that you want to talk about?

        I don't really want to talk about it. I am okay, just tired and cranky at myself for silly things. I am sure it will pass by lunch time. thanks for caring buddy.

      Do you need a hug?

        Sort of i guess, its not really anything you guys can do, but i appreciate the caring. I think its mainly out of tiredness

          You could give Bish a hug and then be friends in misery.

          Do you need a nap? Tell them your Dr. Suggested a nap (I'm not actually a Dr.)

            i barely slept on the weekend, and now i am mentally exhausted. I started at 6.30 this morning and most of last night was me just lying in bed not being able to go to sleep. I will ask freyr for a sick note :P

              Next time you can't sleep, just get up and do something. Read or play a game or watch something. Anything is better than laying there thinking about going to sleep but not being able to, it just makes it impossible.

              Also, *hugasaurus*. You can't be bouncy and cheerful all the time, that would just be be really creepy. :P

                the thing is on friday i didn't sleep much and saturday i didn't sleep at all basically. Last night i went to bed at 10 cause i needed sleep. Didn't happen.

                Thanks strange.

          I'm envisioning you as the personification of your namesake, man.
          Come back to us, don't lose yourself in the ether.
          *hugs*

            I envision me as Elton John but more cool. I am fine man. Don't worry to much, i am probably still better than a few months ago its just that i have been flying to close to the sun lately. Thanks though.

      Funny that. While you were being happy and awesome, I was feeling mopey and depressed. Now I'm not. Coincidence?? Do me a favour, be mopey more often :P
      Kidding. Hope you feel better soon :)

        Will do lambo, i will stay like this as ong as you need.
        Your comment made me smile mang, you are crazy awesome :)

          I'm not awesome. I haven't even thanked you for the Diablo 3 starter key /o\
          Rocketman, thanks for the Diablo 3 starter key!
          Okay, now I'm awesome :P

    Mornin' TAY!
    So, I mentioned on TS on Saturday night that I wsa tempted to buy Saints Row 3 while it was $20 on Steam. Five seconds later Cakesmith had gifted it to me. You're the freakin' best, man!
    Played what was supposed to be 1 hour of it. Ended up going to bed at about 1:30am. Today's gunna be a good day!

    Good morning, everyone! I had a great weekend!

    It was my birthday yesterday (:D) and I had some people over on Saturday night to celebrate. It was loads of fun even though all we basically did was play games. Especially hilarious playing 4-player Crash Team Racing. One of my friends fell off the edge of the track (Hot Air Skyway D:) and was stuck in an infinite loop of respawning/falling. Hilarious.

    I also played Metroid Other M yesterday which was interesting. I woke up feeling like I wanted to keep playing it, so that's a good sign!

    Hope everybody has a good week!

      Happy birthday for yesterday pow glad you have a awesome time.

        Happy birthday for yesterday blam, glad you have a awesome time.

      HAPPY BIRTHDAY CATERPIE
      I will given you some Pokefood or something.

        HE WILL BE THE PRETTIEST CATEPIE IN THE POKEMON CONTEST.

          Dude, he has a tophat and a monocle.
          Whoever doesn't plant ribbons all over his face is some sort of monster.

      HAPPY BIRTHDAY! \o/
      Hope it was a great day (and it sounds like you did)

      HAPPY BIRTHDAY POW!!

      How many more levels (birthdays) until you evolve into Metapod?

        I'm like one of those Bug Catchers you see with a level 21 Caterpie for no reason other than to make the game a bit easier.

      What, an actual birthday? What is proper eTAYquette in these circumstances?
      I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO! /o\

      Happy birthday for yesterday, man. You should've said so mething. (If you did, you should've said something LOUDER. :P)

      Congratulations on surviving another year.
      I tend to see birthdays as leveling up, far better then seeing it as getting older :P

      Happy Birthday man. It sounds like you enjoyed yourself.

      Wait, a real birthday or a TAY birthday?
      I guess it doesn’t matter either way, because I still say HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

      Belated Bappy Hirthday!

      And crash team racing is awesome! I have fond memories of my brother and my cousin and I unplugging the multitap if we lost. Remember the multitap?!

      happy belated birthday Powalen!!!

      Does that mean you have now evolved to your next form, METAPOD??

    Greatings one and all and WELCOME to...

    THE FIRST KOTAKU AU COMMUNITY PODCAST or POTAKU!

    In this weeks episode we discuss things and stuff and junk.

    Starring:
    Shiggy Ninty
    Doc What?

    With special guest starts
    DAN!
    The Last Question

      I listened to it Saturday afternoon. I really enjoyed it guys it was well structured and informative and pretty funny alot of the times. :) good job

        Rocketman pretty much summed it up for me! Also I enjoy hearing Doc What speaketh, it is pleasing to the ear.

          We're trying to get Flu on for an even greater auditory experience

            You, Flu & Mark would make for one hell of a podcast!

              Who is the lions, who is and tiger and who is the bear

      We're also looking for peeps who wanna hop on and record some awesome with is in the coming weeks.

      Any takers?

      You know you want to!

        sure. sometime. 'awesome' might be pushing it though.

      I listened to that whilst waking up Saturday morning/afternoon. Awesome first run guys, hope to hear more of them!

      Really fantastic work, guys! Listened through it all on Saturday arvo, and kept me pretty damned entertained!

      WIll have a listen at work today, mad keen to see how it turned out.

        Hope you enjoy! Thanks for the help!

          My pleasure, I'm about 10 minutes in and this is really tight. You've all done an awesome job here :)

      Listening to it now. =D

      I said this before on Tweeters, but I enjoyed it (I normally don't listen to podcasts). Maybe because I'd actually met some of the people talking it made it more interesting? :P

      Anyway, good job.

      I don't like podcasts, but I like you guys. I can't decide whether to listen to this or not.

        I would. It has music and everything.

        It's like a aradio show!

      \o/ Listening now, it's a pretty strong showing so far.

    FIRST!
    ...*cough* Morning all! 3 days left of work, and then I'm outta here for a week and a half! \o/

    How are we all today?

      No. Just no. It's even worse when you're not actually first. :P

        It was deliberate, though perhaps I should have waited for a few more pages to come up :p
        How's Miss Strange this fine morn?

          I was hoping it was deliberate. For your sake. :P

          I'm pretty good so far. My daughter's pretending to be sick so she can stay home from school and I let her so I didn't have to get out of my PJs. \o/

    The Diablo 3 Starter Pack. I've been playing it and as I suspected, I'm kind of addicted.
    I'm hesitant to to buy the full game though, for two reasons.
    I'm not sure if all the lag is from the always-online factor of if it's my laptop that's doing half the chugging. It sure is a weird feeling when sometimes I fire off a shot at a barrel with my bow and it breaks a full six seconds later though.
    Also, is there a way to save that I haven't figured out? Or is it really just a checkpoint only thing? Because if so that really sucks for me. I don't always have the time or opportunity to just sit there and play until the next checkpoint, and with so little time it's extremely frustrating to have to trek through the same parts over again.

      Make the time to trek to those checkpoints! You could even listen to some Potaku while you do.

      :P

      Demon's/Dark Souls are the best games I've ever played for quit-and-resume. Every other game is a disappointment in comparison.

      No, just checkpoints I'm afraid.
      There is a way to see your framerate, ctrl+r I think. Maybe check that and your ping (colored bar next to potions) to see what is the cause of the lag.

      All character and item progress is saved instantly, but the quests are stuck to the checkpoint one. Kinda means you may be stuck playing longer than you plan, or (like me) replay some areas more than twice cause things come up...

        Yeah, I trekked along the Old Tristram Road bit with the Wretched Mothers a total of three times before I had the time to get to the next checkpoint.

          I had to do that part about 10 times due to it dc-ing me every few mins :(

    Found the best news this morning; Fall of Cybertron is getting a PC release!
    http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/06/theres-a-pc-version-of-transformers-fall-of-cybertron-after-all/

    I hope it doesn't turn out to be a sub-par rush job (given the timeframe before release is quite short)

    Any one else confused at all this Diamond Jubilee stuff? I don't understand why people are so damn excited that someone born into power has ruled over them for sixty years. The UK is one thing, but why are Australians jumping on the bandwagon too? (If you can't tell, I'm all for a republic. :P)

      reasons.

      Also, you guys are way into the royals! There's no Queen's birthday holiday in the UK.

      For better or worse, we're still part of the Commonwealth. Don't see us getting a 4 day weekend for it though :p

        Bah! We need a revolutionary war... or a referendum. I'm good either way. Could be worse, I guess. It could be Joffrey on the throne. :P

        4 day weekend here in Rocky. We have Show holiday on the Friday :p

      We get more days off than if we were a republic. I suppose we could make some stuff up if we were to shift over, but...eh.

        They're just buying your love with days off. :P

    What up TAYBIES, Hugo has returned.
    Yes, I have returned from the oh so glorious US of A!
    If I could sum up the trip to the US in just two words, they would be;
    Cheap Beer.
    By Talos that stuff was cheap and you could buy it everywhere, corner stores, service stations, you name it, if the place had a refrigerator it had some beer for sale.
    It was awesome.

    So what is new around here, I saw that Minecraft has come out on the 360, we so have to do some co-op mincraft on Live, unless it has been out for ages and everybody is sick of it already.

    How about Dragons Dogma, has anybody got that yet? is it any good? Will I regret the inevitable purchase I make at lunch?

    Any other news or tales of shenanigans I just have to know?

      Hugs!!!!

        Strange!!!!

          Did you do anything fun besides drink cheap beer while you were over there? Did you show them the might of Hugo the Hung Barbarian? ;)

            Lots and lots and lots of stuff!
            It was insane the amount of things we squeezed into the trip.

            Here is an incomplete summary.
            Hop-on-hop-off tour of LA
            Medieval dinner
            Went o Santa Monica Pier
            Drove up close to hollywood sign, then proceeded to take about a hundred photos
            Walked the length of the strip in Las vegas
            Walked along Freemont St in Vegas
            Drove to Rachel (town closest to Area 51) visited the Little Al'e'inn. Was freaked out by thw eird locals
            Went to Disney World, managed tovist every damn theme park
            Went to Universal Studios (we all agreed it was actually better then Disney World)
            Went to Cape Canaveral Space Centre, was much better then we thought it would be.
            Went on an airboat tour of the Everclades in Miami (got to hug an alligator)
            Tour of Miami and a boat tour of the 45-50 islands at Miami (about 35 of them are man made)
            Partied like crazy in Miami
            Went to New York (went to many places but NY gets its own line as it was so awesome)
            Saw Grand Central station
            Walked through Central Park
            Walked through Times Square
            Visited Ground Zero and saw the new Liberty Building (I think that is the nickname)
            Saw a Broadway Show
            Went to a New York Yankees Game (they won!)
            Rode the Trams in San Fran
            Went to Fishermans Wharf
            Went to a luau
            Swam with dolphins and turtles
            watched the sun set over the ocean

            As I said, just a short summary:P

      Welcome back!
      I'll be over there next month, so I shall be sure to chase up ALL the cheap beer :)

        So cheap, so awesome!
        One night we decided to relax in one of the rooms, because it had a awesome balcony view of the beach in Waikiki so we decided to pick up some beer.
        A case of 15 cans of beer cost $15!!!
        Couldn't believe it.
        Oh and a 350ml bottle of spirits, about $8-$10!
        We were in drunken heaven!

      WELCOME BACK!

      Can't wait to see what you brung me back! :P

      There is a review of Dragons Dogma on the Kotaku Community Podcast, POTAKU! Give it a listen before you decide!!!

        I brought back hugs, there is plenty for everybody!
        Curses, I want to listen, but I can't at work, could I have a brief summary the game now, then I will listen when I get home, pretty please!

          I believe the summary is

          GLIIIIIITCHED!

          Also, the DLC that you have to pay for later is all on the disc.

          Oh, Capcom....

      Welcome back! I hope you have some write ups of your trip coming up.

      Dragon's Dogma is a mixed bag. There are differing opinions all over the place. I'd advice you to wait for a price drop or the eventual Capcom super edition.

    Morning friends!

    I woke up this morning got all ready for work was headed out the door then remembered I had an RDO today. Kinda cool, still would have loved to sleep in

    firstworldproblems.jpg

      CEASELESS DISCHARGE

        D=

        Did I tell you that I defeated him last night. (Was gonna say "Beat but I think that would have been awkward)

        ...

        Whelp I made it awkward.

    I'm being tied to the hype train for the Sony conference. There's a lot of interesting scuttlebutt around, including streaming cloud game services ready to roll this year, Vita exclusives (like that AC3 one), etc.

    Hard not to be excited.

    Also really deflated by the WiiU Pro Controller announcement. If that's an option, I can see a lot of developers just building a game, porting it to the WiiU with no extra tweaks, and making that touchpad on the tablet controller blank. Much, much cheaper to do it that way.

      Overall I'm kinda happy about the Pro controller for two main reasons: it's going to be out on launch, and it means the console hopefully won't miss out on games due to the touchpad controller. It does kinda make me wonder how often I'd actually be using the touchpad for any of the more difficult games, though.

      I'll join that train!

      As for the Wii U controller, I do like the option (for a lot of Wii games I default to the Classic or Gamecube controller) but I agree that it may encourage devs to be lazy.

      Yeah, I've got to be honest, if a game CAN be played "at 100%" with the non-tablet, then the tablet additions by default have to be non-essential stuff, like an "always on mini-map" that'll get old quickly.

      I kind of wish they didn't announce the Pro controller, so that devs needed to make use of their tablet...then again, that might have cost them a lot of games.

        For me options are always a good thing. Also, I'm sure Miyamoto has some crazy ideas for that screen. I'm not a huge Nintendo fan but I'm surprisingly excited.

          Likewise.

          I definitely won't be a day one purchaser, but I'm very interested to see exactly what they do with it

    Ok, good morning, fellas (or good night for me), I nominated Bish for the kudos because he was awesome and gave me Bastion so now I can see what everyone was raving about, yayifications!

    Moreover, I want to offer something back: I have Defense Grid + the 4 DLC packs for it available if someone wants them. It's Tower Defense with a neat quirk, very slick and polished!

    So, yeah, anyone hyped about anything from the E3? I don't even know what's coming, I saw that Strike Suit Zero announcement and stopped there. That's all I'm looking forward to . AWESOME MECHS PEW PEW.

      I am terrible at tower defense

        B-b-b-but FREE STEAM KEYZ! D:

        That usually garners attention and drags people's eyes for the mandatory 10-seconds activation after posting them!

        Agreed though, tower defense can be tricky. Or it can be tiring than a lot of so-called strategy games end up being tower defense...

          Doesn't stop me from being terrible at it.
          Also that doesn't happen here.

      I have so many new freakin' games that I'm struggling to keep up, so I think I'll pass on another one :D

      Starting to get pretty pumped about the WiiU. It's been a long while since this has happened, so I hope it all goes really well.

      Nice gift Alpha, Defense grid is still the best tower defense game I have played. The right pacing, no massive difficulty spikes and lots of replay value.
      I was actually playing on the weekend, trying for all gold medals in story mode currently, have 3 left to get (I managed to get all silver yesterday)

      Somebody grab this, it is a great game

    So, how many people have said they wish they could write like me?

    Well, the answer is none actually... but I figured that's because you were too shy or something...

    ...

    Anyway.

    Write like me! Now you can.

      Is that one of those make your handwriting into a font thingys?

    Morning all.
    I'm being completely unproductive today. Today is off to a bad start.

      Feeling better miss Scree?

        Much, at the moment. But every time I feel better, I start to feel crap again =P

          Well hopefully its gone away for good this time. Try and be a little productive this morning. Have some fun to though.

            I just realised last night that there's only 3 months to manifest. Must work on Cosplay.
            Must get new vacuum cleaner.
            Alternatively I could shave the dog, but I don't think either Mum nor Sid would be impressed with that.

      Don't say that! You're simply progressing with undocumented achievements!

        No, I'm being very lazy =P
        Maybe after breakfast.

          Being lazy is doing something right!

          ...

          RIGHT!?

          You're... extending your approach and understanding of lethargy as a viable means of counter-productivity and time-management?

            I'm sure I'll perk up after food.

    Borderlands 2 loot chest is back for those who missed it (like i did)! It's only available from EB's site:

    https://www.ebgames.com.au/search?title=loot%20chest

      Cheers man!

      I thought I bought it a while ago but it ended up It was just in my cart. It's all ordered! Can't wait!

      I think Mighty Ape has it too...http://www.mightyape.com.au/Brands/Borderlands/All/

        Or is that a different version.

          That's a different version, but still cheaper than EB for the matching version:

          https://www.ebgames.com.au/search?title=vault+hunter

    Motherboard update:

    Still not working. Yelled at incompetent people. Bought new motherboard and demanded refund of old one. Got home. Still not working. Got brother to take a look. We played Diablo instead. Buying new power supply today from different company entirely.

      Trjn, you seem to have all the luck in the world with this /o\
      For your sake, I really hope this new solution pans out for you!

      DIS IS Y CONSOULS R MUCH BETTAR! PCS R ONLY GOOD FOR TYPING AND THINGS - IF U DISGREE WIT ME FIGHT ME ON XBOX IN BATTLEFEELD U NOOB!

        Mac power!

        OMFG NOOB Y U DUN PLY GAYBXO
        PS3 I WIN NOOB

          PS3 HAS NO GAEMS! FATBOX IS STUPID! MASTER RACE HAS 1080p AND BOKEH DEPTH OF FIELD!

          Hmmm, bokeh.

      The saga continues. I'd better refresh my popcorn.

      Your saga has me quite hesitant to buy a PC.

        I'm clearly cursed.

    Just a question - Can anyone else see my posts? The seem to be getting gobbled up...

      I SAW NOTHING!!!

      I see one in capitals about consoles and noobs and I see this question.

      I also see dead people, but that might not be of any use to you.

        I've posted a reply to your Limbo discussion, which has disappeared twice now. In short I liked the fact that you need to die to learn things, but I originally played it with a bunch of mates around an xbox, passing the controller around at each death.

      eVERY COMMENT i POST REQUIRES A HARD-REFRESH OF THE PAGE, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT. i'M ASSUMING THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE EXPERIENCING?

        This hasn't been an issue for me before, but I believe I am experiencing the 'comment-lag' that people were having last week. Hard-refresh seems to be working for now.

    yo my homies, who else be staying up tonight to watch the Microsoft presentation tonight? will we have to have mass reaction posts in TA while it is happening?

    as for microsoft, all i'm really interested in is halo 4, but i want to be pleasently surprised by them. and as for sony i just want to hear about more vita games!

      I'm not staying up for Microsoft's presentation, but I'll be up for EA's which I think starts at 6am real Australian time tomorrow :P

      I'm not interested in any first party Microsoft stuff (unless they have some surprises) but I'll be watching all the conferences. I'm actually really curious about Black Ops 2 and other third part stuff during Microsoft's conference

      *someone link the gif of joffrey vs tyrion about microsofts E3 presentation*

      I have basically no interest in what Microsoft has in store, with the exception of the new Gears game. I fear Microsoft will just keep going on about Kinect and making the 360 a media box.

      With Sony: The Last of Us! God of War! New AC Vita gaem?

      Maybe there'll be something about the Last Guardian?

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA *sobs uncontrollably*

    Things I'm looking forward to the most from E3,
    Need for Speed Most Wanted
    Simcity
    Overstrike
    The Showdown Effect
    Tomb Raider
    Borderlands 2
    Transformers: Fall of Cybertron
    Halo 4
    Crysis 3
    Star Wars 1313
    The Last of Us
    ShootMania Storm

      I forgot about Overstrike! I hope more info about it is out this E3.

      You have no idea how pumped I am for Need for speed Most wanted. Sure it's dumb that they are using the same name of a game that isn't even 10years old, but it's Criterion. I wish the open world returns and the epic cop chases as well. A good soundtrack will be appreciated as well.

      Other things I'm excited about:
      Far Cry 3- Far cry 2 was a flawed gem but I loved it. It's sad to see that the fire tech might be gone but I hope the emergent gameplay is still there. Also, I'm curious about their villain, he seems well fleshed out but are other characters in the world similarly developed?

      Wii U stuff- I'm not a huge Nintendo guy but I'm really curious about Nintendo's first steps into the HD era.

      Assassins Creed 3- I have never actually finished an AC game but AC3 has me giddy.

      Last Guardian- Sony where is this game? Please Please don't be cancelled. Please.

      Any unknown games- I like surprises so hopefully we get some.

      Other entries:
      Black ops 2
      Resident evil 6
      Metro last light- I never played the first one but I'm intrigued.

    BIG MEAT EMAIL HAS BEEN SENT!

    Hey Gang,

    Did you wanna come a long to the Gold Coast later this year for theme parks, drinking and vidja games?

    I sent out details last night to people whose email I had. If you didn't get one but wanna come along, leave your email below and I'll send it out to you.

    Don't post your email anywhere else, as I don't religiously read every page.

    Alternatively DM me on Twitter (at)dkzeitgeist.

    Love,
    Dan

      Yes.

      Unfortunately, can't.

      Ever meat announcement makes me cry a little on the inside.

      Huh. I thought I had sent you my email address :/
      DMing you now!

    Monday! Ugh. I had such a nice weekend. Didn't do any work, which I'm sure I'll regret down the line here, but it did give me time to finish off Max Payne 3. It's a great game, but those 'boss fights' near the end were just terrible. Especially the last one. I'd say those were the only moments where I was really genuinely frustrated with the game. It felt like I had to rely on cover too much in those sections and absolutely could not use bullet time without being torn to shreds.

    Also E3 whoo! I want to stay up to watch the conferences, but that also means that I'm going to be sleep deprived over the next few days. :p

    should i get game of thrones on 360 or pc

      Paperback, maybe ebook if that is your thing.

      Wait for a steam sale.

        its only $50 not gonna get much cheaper its not the price its what platform eb delayed it on 360 so i might just get it on pc

          Did you try the crusader kings mod of it? I'm considering buying if for that but interested in how a fan finds that game

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