Objection: Should Nintendo Stop Trying To Remake Super Mario Bros. 3?

It's one of those eternal debates — Super Mario World or Super Mario Bros. 3? Personally I fall on the side of Super Mario World, but recent New Super Mario Bros. games seem to be using the SMB3 template, ignoring the thing that made SMW so interesting. Today on Objection myself and Daniel Vuckovic from Vooks discuss Mario. Should Nintendo lay off the Super Mario Bros. 3 homage and move on?

MARK: So Mr Vooks, we had a little discussion on Twitter yesterday — it was short, but significant. During that conversation one fact became clear: I, Mark Serrels, am a massive fan of Super Mario World. I believe it to be the greatest 2D Super Mario game.

You on the other hand prefer Super Mario Bros. 3 on the NES.

Is this true Daniel Vuckovic? IS THIS TRUE?

VOOKS: Indeed it is Mr S. For the longest time I never got into Super Mario World. I never even played it the full time through until its release on the Game Boy Advance as Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2. It just never clicked with me at all. It's a good game, but...

Super Mario Bros. 3, though? Oh boy, what a revelation, it's the quintessential Mario game. Super Mario Bros. 3 is the THE 2D Mario. You've got the tightest controls, the best that 8-Bit graphics and sounds has to offer, the most varied worlds and all the power-ups that we enjoy today. Power Leafs, Tanooki Suits, Hammer Bros., Frog Suits, Karibo Shoe, Flutes the P-Wing. It's all here and it was all released in 1990, it pushed the NES to the max.

MARK: It’s an interesting one, because I would never for a second question the impact of Super Mario Bros. 3. I loved the game, and I think it holds up to this day. I could happily play through the game right this second and love it.

But I’ve always preferred Super Mario World for a number of reasons – the main one being the pace of it, the controls, the precision of the jumps. It’s hard to explain, but Super Mario World has a unique feel that Nintendo hasn’t really been able (or tried) to replicate since.

I’m nostalgic for it, because with the New Super Mario Bros series (both on Wii and the handhelds) I can’t help but get the feeling that Nintendo is attempting to replicate the feel of Super Mario Bros. 3, not the – in my humble opinion – superior Super Mario World.

VOOKS: Indeed they are. New Super Mario Bros. 2 not only feels like Super Mario Bros. 3 but the locations and the power ups in the game feel like a homage to Super Mario Bros. 3. The 'coin' game mechanic aside, the game looks and feels like Super Mario Bros. 3. I realise that no one here has really played New Super Mario Bros. 2 yet but when you do, you'll see why.

The last game that I've played from Nintendo that had a similar feeling to Super Mario World was Super Princess Peach. Sure Yoshi wasn't there, but that felt much like Super Mario World. I suppose no one reading this has played that one though!

I think Nintendo embracing SMB3 as the inspiration for New Super Mario Bros. isn't a bad thing, but we are getting to the point where the 'New' series is becoming terribly stale — both in look and actual gameplay. Perhaps switching to a Super Mario World or even Yoshi's Island style would be better?

MARK: For me, personally, I think it would be a great idea. New Super Mario Bros. Wii is one of my favourite multiplayer games of all time, and I enjoyed the original New Super Mario Bros. game on the DS but, having played a little of the new 3DS effort, I feel as though I can literally feel myself being dragged through an increasingly rigid Mario template. Nothing is surprising, nothing feels fresh.

Super Mario World, from top to bottom, feels like a completely different Mario game, and it’s one that rewards more experienced players. No Mario game before or since has allowed me to really feel like a master of the game’s controls. Now that everyone, from the most casual fan to the Nintendo faithful, has sort of re-remembered what it is to play a Mario game, I feel like a subtle reinvention of that 'feel' would be an interesting next move.

Part of me is hoping that’s what we see from New Super Mario Bros. U. I’ve always just loved everything about Super Mario World, the multiple exits, the short cuts, the art, the look, the consistently inventive design. At the moment I feel as though Mario is being done by the numbers – I’d like to see some of the spontaneous innovation that’s been poured into Super Mario Galaxy brought back.

Super Mario World, I think, was designed with that same spirit.

VOOKS: I don't know if New Super Mario Bros. U is going to be the game we're looking for. It's a launch game and, statistically, those don't fare too well. I haven't played it yet, I know people who have, but so far it does look pretty much like a HD New Super Mario Bros. game. That's just from looking at it.

New Super Mario Bros. 2 was much like that when we all first saw it, then we read the Iwata Asks and it looked better but then you play it. It's fun but it's overly the same. I have enjoyed New Super Mario Bros 2.. It does feel like Super Mario Bros. 3 so I'm not sure if I want more Mario games based on anything before or something completely new. Somewhere in the middle would be nice.


Comments

    I have never understood the appeal of SMB3 over SMW. SMW is superior in everyway.
    And yes i miss the cape god damn it.

      The first time I played SMB3 was after school at a friends house - when I was 9 years old. Slack-jawed, I couldn't get over how LARGE the world was compared to all the other stuff I've played up to that point. Subconsciously or no, I think the awesomeness I felt playing SMB3 became a yardstick upon that to measure the awesomeness of subsequent epic material - for me at least anyway.

    Super Mario 3 has my heart, but I freakin' loved Yoshi's Island I've got to say. (With the exception of the Baby Mario's shrieking.) These New Super Mario Games seems like they're trading on nostalgia, especially after the excellent Galaxy games.

    Alterna-opinion: SMA4 is the best Mario game. SMB3, in Super Mario All-Stars' fresh coat of paint, throw in a full set of e-cards that extend and expand the game into all kinds of crazy new places, and you have an instant best-ever.

    Also imo Yoshi's Island is only a Mario game in name. Otherwise, it's a Yoshi game.

      What are you doing Lucas?

        Posting on Kotaku, obviously. What are YOU doing, "Skype"? If that is your real name...

    SMW had the devastaing 'bomb' attack with the cape, multiple exits that actually opened up new paths in the HUB and the majority of Boss battles were different. Also coloured Yoshi's!!! Like Serrels I'm nostalgic for it, mainly because the SNES was the first home console owned in my household.

    If it means getting a 1080p version of SMB3 that looks as good as Scott Pilgrim, or in the style of New SMB, hell no they shouldn't stop! WANT!

    I played and really liked Super Princess Peach,,,

    I played Super Princess Peach; that was a good game.
    I'm going to side with SMB3 in this debate, but maybe because I've never played much past the first two or three levels of SMW.

    As far as quintessential Mario game though? When you're talking tight controls, that's got to be Super Mario Brothers. You've got your run, you've got your jump. The two powerups (Fire Flower & Star) are, more often than not, distractions.

    I think Mario 64 was the natural evolution of SMW, and Super Mario Sunshine the next step after that. SMS was a game that I didn't appreciate until much, much later; I'd love a return to that world, although I don't think too many people want FLUDD v2.0.

      If you haven't played much of it before I recommend getting hold of Super Mario World and sticking with it until the end. It's good from the start but the differences really start to shine when you're trying to get to the alternate endings to the levels and returning to levels after you've activated the coloured ! marks. That and Yoshi with coloured shells is just gold.

    I liked them both, but SMW is the most memorable for me. Possibly because it ushered in the SNES and therefore has more nostalgia factor.
    Yoshi's Island is my favourite though

    As much as I liked Yoshi's Island I was always puzzled by why Nintendo hit the perfect Mario game with Super Mario World and then turned right around and scrapped it for Yoshi's Island. Super Mario World is one of the few classic games I go back to from time to time that doesn't feel nostalgia driven. Other games it feels like I could be playing a modern version where Super Mario World feels unique.
    That said I understand why they go with Super Mario Bros 3 over Super Mario World when making New Super Mario Bros. The limitations the NES put on Super Mario Bros 3 are more inline with modern Nintendo design philosophy.

    I didn't play SMB3 until I got my Snes with Allstars but I loved it. So many secrets, so many crazy freaking suits. Raccoon Mario, Tanuki Mario, Frog Mario, Sock Mario, Hammer Bro Mario - it was nuts!

    I got Super Mario World later, and while it was a more polished effort, it also seemed a bit more tame in the abilities you had.

    Super Princess Peach is a great game.

    And heads up: "those don't fare too well."

    There already was a Mario game that's a spiritual successor to SMW- Galaxy 2. Not just because of the updated SMW tunes and the inclusion of Yoshi, but the entire game just feels like an extension of the SMW style.

    Of course it's a sequel to Galaxy 1, which itself is 'a 3D Mario game', but my point remains the same.

    For me, it's smb3. When it launched, I was a young teenager who had been playing the original mario for years. I couldn't get into mario 2. Just never liked it. So, when Mario 3 came out it was such an awesome game and a big leap for gaming at the time. I still think its awesome. Every now and then I'll fire it up and try a run through. I never get far these days though. I think it's a game that requires the nes controller, not an emulator.

    Funny how it's actually called "new" with all the comments about borrowed elements from the old titles.
    Should have just called it "Super Mario Bros: moat gold coins!" =p

      Moar* More* =p

    SMW is best.

    Also: "It’s a launch game and, statistically, those don’t fair too well."
    1: I think you want fare not fair
    2: First party Nintendo launch titles tend to be pretty darn good.

    I wish they would stop adding the 3 red ring things in the new games, the annoying music and the way the bad guys dance every so often to themusic

    Yoshis Island destroys both!!!
    ...not really a Mario game though...

    I LOVED SMB3 it blew me away and still does but then when I played SMW I was like OMGWTF this is so totally awesome!
    To this day my fave 2D platformer is SMW (I'm building a clone from scratch right now haha!) and I ABSOLUTELY agree that we need more games based on this version rather than SM3.

    BRING BACK THE CAPE!

    Gonna side with SMW. What I loved was the amount of stuff that was hidden in the actual levels and how finding the secret areas made you feel like a boss. Hell, on multiple play throughs I didn't even realise there was a vanilla secret area, a fortress, the butter bridge etc. the warp stars stages and special area and that irritating fly under the goal lines and back up onto flat ground to get to the salt lake thing under the cheese bridge. When I eventually managed all those things, the game became 3 times larger than what I thought it originally was. There was simply so much stuff that you were blissfully unaware of until you found it that you hungered for more

      oh, and yoshis island was pretty amazing too. I can do "touch fuzzy, get dizzy" without actually touching fuzzy, but why would you not? that kick ass screen warping and music twisting was great fun.

    As long as they keep developing other awesome titles consistently they can do whatever they want.
    Also never fk up zelda.

    "I feel as though I can literally feel myself being dragged through an increasingly rigid Mario template."

    That sounds painful.

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